363: Speak No Evil (2022 vs 2024)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

My parents would have been like, stop fucking crying, I'll give you something to cry about.

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. I need you to be brave, okay? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

We believe horror is for everyone, and at such we're rateing these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the super fly space guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

The whole neighborhood uses him, and not only because he's cheap.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

If you risk the crunch, you risk getting a little puncture and getting a little bit of poo on your finger.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

And the paranormal paramore Binks. Settle in, I promise you guys, could be a great weekend.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

This episode of Hackerslash is brought to you by Adam and Eve, trusted for over 50 years to help break the monotony of your marriage without having to shack up with strangers. Unless that's your thing. Stay tuned to learn how you can save 50% off one item at adamandeve.com. This week we're pinning a 2022 Danish film against its 2024 American remake.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

And if you support the show by being a patron or subscribing through Apple Podcasts, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we get into scenarios where we might go off and hang out with people we barely know. So stick around.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Before Danish director Christian Taftdrup and his brother Mads brought their vision to life on screen, Christian found himself forming a chance friendship with another couple while vacationing in Tuscany. Despite a few social quirks, they hit it off well enough that Tafdruk received an invitation to visit them in the Netherlands after they returned home. And while he briefly considered going, he ultimately decided it would feel a bit strange to stay with people he barely knew. But the idea lingered, and he began wondering, what if? And let his imagination wander into some of the darkest scenarios, turning a casual invitation into the unsettling foundation for a film. Now the film had its debut at Sundance in 2022 and later found a home on Shudder, and it wasn't long before Blumhouse took notice, producing an American remake led by James Watkins, who brought new cultural elements to the story. Watkins aimed to keep that underlying sense of discomfort and dread while adapting the story for an American audience and also shifting the focus to the interactions between American and British families. This week we're talking about both versions of Speak No Evil. Who has seen this one before?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Gosh, aside from the American version, I had not heard of this until recently. I didn't even know there was an original. I didn't know there was a 2022.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I had not seen either of these films prior to watching them for this podcast. I feel like it's going to be a a fresh perspective on both sides with this one for sure. I think I I heard about the original and then this one came out, and I just never got around to either of them until now.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

I actually had heard about the 2022 version around the time that it was making its circuit and then hit Shudder. A lot of people at the time that I follow that review, just movies in general, were saying that that was their favorite horror movie of the year. They were just gassing it up, and so I watched it and I was blown away. But then when I heard about this remake, oh man, it really just did not sit well with me. And I feel like at that point I I did watch it in theaters, so it was a good experience, but something about knowing that it was going to be remade just shortly after it had debuted to begin with seemed a little bit off.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

It has big the disrespect in this household energy at first glance, right? I hadn't seen either of these movies before recording this. The original Speak No Evil came out a couple years ago, and I had heard about it only through scrolling on Shudder. I never took a moment to really explore it or see what was up with it. And I do remember the audience reaction, hearing them see the film for the first time in the trailer for the new remake. I remember people being surprised, and I remember thinking, what the fuck is this now? But here's the thing I was utterly exhausted by hearing about this fucking movie. That trailer played before every single fucking movie I saw in theaters this year.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

So much.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

I've never been so turned off of a trailer, and it's like, listen, James McAvoy, great actor.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

You see the trailer once, twice, three times, okay. But at the 90th time, it's like, what the fuck are we doing? It comes up online, it plays on TV, it was just excessive. So going into this, remembering how shocked people sounded, to be like, oh, what is this now? And then also the utter exhaustion from this. I absolutely expected the 2022 to be an incredible foreign film and the 2024 remake to be underwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Well, I'm not gonna spoil my rating already, but God, I couldn't agree more. The really tough thing for me to come to terms with is the fact that Americans really just love to make their trailers extremely revealing. It's something we gotta do something as a country, as a nation.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

It's like a new thing though.

SPEAKER_03 5:29

It's a new thing, but it's been like the last three, four years, if not more. And what infuriates me about this particular film is that the beauty of it is the surprise. And so going into my first watch of the original one, I knew nothing. And like I said, a lot of people had been talking about the film, but in their reviews, they all held back what the film was about. They just kept saying that it was very on the nose about certain topics about human nature. They didn't reveal anything. And so I loved the movie so much because I didn't know what to expect. Right. But with this trailer, not only revealing what the hell it is about, but also non-stop. I shit you not. I bet you that trailer was playing at the inside out to fucking movies, if it tracked, okay? I bet you that trailer can is still to this day playing in some godforsaken theaters. It won't stop. Someone has to do something.

SPEAKER_04 6:24

Here's the thing. I saw this trailer before what feels like every movie I saw this year.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:29

I definitely saw Inside Out 2 in theater, so you might be right.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Oh my god, that's crazy. Here's the thing. I think that anytime you go into a double feature with an old versus new watch, you gotta be kind of expecting the original to be better. So you're not all far off, but even just from the pure principle of knowing there's an original and going into like watching both, you gotta be thinking the remake cannot be better than the original because given track records of anybody that remakes an original film, it's not always in their favor. You know what I mean? Odds are the original is usually gonna be better. And I feel like we've had some terrible remakes that I think probably have scarred us, right? Like we've got A Nightmare in Elm Street was a terrible remake, but then you have movies like The Thing, 1982, a fantastic remake. It's tough to say, you never really know, but I think just given the amount of bad remakes there are, you have to be expecting this not to be as good.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

I didn't have high expectations before I even knew this was a remake and that there was an original foreign language version. You you mentioned the trailers, and then when you bombard people with a trailer before every YouTube video you go to watch, you're probably not thinking this is gonna be the best movie ever. You're thinking this is gonna be hyped up, overhyped, and it's gonna be mid. It's gonna be completely okay. That's really, I think, what I was expecting for the 2024. When I realized that there was a 2022, I was like, this is strange. Why on earth would they remake it? Then I realized that it was foreign language. I had kind of the same initial thought of, well, that's probably going to be better. It's probably going to be more enjoyable, but I'm going to have to look at subtitles the whole way through. But then I realized I do that anyway. Right. Even on English stuff. So honestly, there's nothing that could, you know, be lost here. But yeah, you definitely think, whatever reason, you just kind of innately think now it's going to be of a higher quality. They're going to spend a little bit more effort on stuff.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Well, I think that the misconception, even about the original, is that you would be reading captions all the time, and it's mostly in English. There's just a few moments that are captioned, and the parts that are captioned are, I believe, the Dutch. Maybe I'm off on that one, but it's only one language, then obviously captions for the other, but that's intentional, which I appreciate. But the entire movie is in English too. So it's surprising on that front.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

It is weird. They captioned the Danish, but not the Dutch in the US. But internationally, they captioned both.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

They captioned both? Okay. I had read into that, but I didn't know if it was internationally both. Mm-hmm. You see the US, goddamn it.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

We're just out here doing weird shit, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Out here doing weird shit.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

And here's the thing makes a more back up to something that you said, and you experienced the movie, the original film, having zero expectation about what it could be about. Just going in and letting it take you on a ride. And you pointed out very correctly that the trailer makes this feel very obvious, like what's going to happen, what the stakes are. It seems like it's almost pandering to people who love James McAlvoy as an actor and rely on his past performances to really get you invested in this movie. If you thought he was crazy in this, look how crazy he's gonna be in this shit, look what he's up to now.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Exactly what it felt like.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Exactly. However, I still went into this wanting to watch the original first. So I didn't watch the 2024 one yet. To that point, I w dove into the original and I felt so many things, but the biggest thing I felt was robbed. Because wow, what an incredible experience it would have been to have zero idea what was coming. To not know what you were getting into. I longed to have had the experience beings that you had, just watching that straight up, as opposed to walking into this, having the assumption of what may have happened. In that movie, though, even in the beginning, there's this opening and even like the musical stings that reminded me of the shining. And even though I wasn't sure who was in the car, where they were going, what they were doing yet, it did feel like I was in that car on the way to someone's doom. And man, that tension, that initial suspense, it mixed in with this reality that this entire movie's horror is social interaction and quiet politeness and quiet confrontation and just pushing boundaries. Man, the cringe was unreal. And I know that's something that the director really wanted to dive into and really explore and exploit, but holy shit was it effective.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Absolutely. And that's the part that's such a shame because when everybody was telling me about the 2024 version, I kept trying to tell them, like, oh, but you should watch the original. But I realized at that point it's too late because they've already been privy to the big reveal to some extent, right? So what I love about the original is that like most foreign films, especially in horror, they're very bleak and they're not afraid to be raw with no fluff, like no niceness, which is ironic because it's an analysis on civility and human nature and how nice we can be. But this 2024 version, it it does do that, but it does add the fluff. And I think it's trying to appeal to maybe a different audience and be way more blockbuster than it needed to to be effective. I still believe that the original one drives home the plot and like the point and the message. This remake tries to, but it's already too late when you've revealed the whole point as it is. Now it just seems very slasher. Now it seems very, you know, watching James McAvoy do crazy stuff. And so that's the shame because then the audience is not getting the message. They're just sitting and watching a slasher film to some extent. So it's very frustrating. And that's how I felt watching this remake, knowing what could have been, knowing how the original like really just makes you feel so tense, so dreadful. And especially with that ending, we'll get to it in a bit, but boy, it it just really makes an effect on you.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

You know, I do want to clarify because I realized I spoke at length about how I felt robbed because the 2024 trailer made it apparent what the story was. But I gotta admit, I was pleasantly surprised by the 2024 version.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Okay. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Just try to throw it out there. There's nuance, there's subtlety, and there are subtle shifts that we'll discuss in just a bit. But for as robbed as I felt, I still felt every bit as entertained watching the remake.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

It's interesting. This is exactly why I feel like when you told me you were watching the original and then the remake, I was like, this is gonna be interesting because I want to know how we both feel because I watched the remake and then the original, and I feel like watching the remake made me appreciate the original even more. So I don't know. I don't know if it's a difference in like how you watch these in what order or or what have you or what you're expecting. I get the gist of like what the general story was from the trailers we got for the remake. So I kind of like understood what I was, you know, signing up for, so to speak, but then watching the remake and then watching the original, I felt like the original was full of surprises for me, you know what I mean? It just was a different experience. I will say though, this felt like the longest fucking weekend ever. I don't care which version you're watching. This weekend went on, it felt like for days and days, and not just like a one-night or two-night experience. It felt like they were there for a fucking week.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Yeah. It felt like it was a long weekend, it felt like a true holiday. It felt like I need to go back and count how many times they were in bed for sleeping.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah. I think you've all said it that the 2022, there is such an intense level of tension and awkwardness and boundary breaking, and there's just something so human about the movie. It's ridiculous. It's completely over the top, and that's the point. It's gotta push things over the top to really give you the creepy crawlies. And I think when we get to the 2024 version, that was all really rushed in comparison, up until the climax, which was just a third of the movie versus a fifth of the movie in the 2022. It's interesting what they chose to focus on here. And I I think Chris is right, there's entertainment value in both, but the difference here is that the 2024 is going to focus way more on action, and the 2022 doesn't need as explosive action. The 24 does because it reduces all the rest of that down. You don't get half of the tension that you get in the Danish version. You just don't. And so to make up for that, we need more action. Is it worse because of that? It's just different, and I think you're getting a very different movie.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Yeah, I don't know, worse or not, we'll find out where everyone lands, but definitely different because to what you're saying, Mac, the original 2022 Danish version, there's so many moments where the landscaping and the cinematography and the score are helping to build a lot of this tension. You have these ultra-dramatic moments where the score is playing behind an otherwise like muted type scene and it makes you feel uneasy. There's some really beautiful moments throughout that film. Whereas, you know, in the 2024 version, to me, I felt like most of the tension was really just coming from James McAvoy's performance alone. Like it felt like he was carrying that tension.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Yeah, and I think that's what surprised me when I watched. I also watched the 2022 version first, uh, I figured if it's the original, you gotta watch it first. And while watching this, there's such little action throughout most of the film, but there's such effective tension and just the interplay between characters. As you get to see those vistas, it's very impressive. It looks beautiful. The Netherlands is gorgeous, by the way. If you haven't been, it's absolutely gorgeous. So it's interesting that you're watching this and you're just watching people talk and interact, or even just look at each other, and you're getting so uncomfortable. That sense of unease that you mentioned, versus getting into the new one. I think it doesn't have that feeling exactly. And I was a bit disappointed that things had to be changed so drastically, only because there's nothing wrong with having two different movies and two different stories. Most people in the US are not going to go watch the original version and they're gonna miss out on that.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I also was a little bit disappointed in maybe some of the things that the American remake decided to change. And I do think obviously we're gonna dive into that a lot in the spoiler zone, so definitely stick around for that. The most surprising thing for me about this new 2024 film was how their fucking Tesla made it all the way to this fucking farm without needing a fucking one charge, okay? As an EV owner myself, this thing was cruising all through those fucking mountains and not charging once. Highly, highly, highly unbelievable, folks. I'm sorry. Long range or not, bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 17:42

Sounds like some product placement there. I don't know. Start to feel real different.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

See, here's the thing though. It goes back to the point of why does this film need to be remade? And it doesn't, but I do think if they hadn't changed everything, then it would be almost more of an insult. I can appreciate, and I think my biggest surprise for that remake, right? It's just it wasn't just truly a shitty shot-for-shot remake. This had big psycho energy. It it could have absolutely been a scene by scene, line of dialogue by line of dialogue recreation of it. But even the subtext of this movie feels different. And I think a lot of it is molded by not just James McAvoy and how he approaches the character of Patrick or Patty, but even by our central couple and our central family. We have Ben and Louise and Agnes. And I think even the dire the differences in their dynamics say something completely different from the cultural subtext that we got in the original film. But holy shit, I just gotta revisit that original film because what a massive surprise that movie was. That shit was a slow burn. Yeah. And for it not having much action whatsoever, it really feels like it moves very quickly and then stalls. But not in a way that is frustrating, not in a way that feels bad. It just comes to this point where it feels like things should be either wrapping up or escalating further. And then you realize, holy shit, it's only been 43 minutes and we still have a lot of runtime left. Where are they going with this?

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Where is this going?

SPEAKER_04 19:16

What are we doing with this? And it makes you almost more like maddened by what's happening on screen, but in a way that keeps you invested with the characters and invested with what's happening in that house. Man, that shit was so great.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Well, it's crazy because you say surprised by that watch, and I feel like I also say disappointed by the changes that the remake made. And I think that's just gonna be an opinion. There's gonna be people that like the changes, don't like the changes, are indifferent about the changes, whatever. But I think for me, watching the remake and then watching the original, it was surprising the differences between the two films because I just did not know anything about the original. So going into the remake first, I'm like, okay, let's see like how close it was. And I was like, holy shit, like close, but not really.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Okay. Do you have regrets? Do you wish you had gone original first?

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I don't know. That's what I'm saying. Uh it's interesting to hear your perspective because if I had watched the original first and then watched the remake, I couldn't tell you what my feelings would be. I still feel one way about each movie. I don't know if that would change. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

So my curiosity is that perhaps since you already saw the outcome, right, in this remake, maybe the outcomes are gonna be different, right? And even how you get there also is a little bit different too in in both of these films. But what I experienced having seen the original and then watching this remake so long after, and then having to rewatch it again, like I've seen this movie in such a weird order. I felt like I was watching this reboot or this remake already anticipating and comparing every single thing to the original because I knew it well. And when they made those shifts, I was surprised by the audacity, not so much by the act. Because again, I I go back to this whole idea of like foreign films versus American films. A lot of American films love to add a little bit more of the slasher element, a little bit more action, especially if it's a blockbuster. They want to go big and they want to really make a whole show of it. Foreign films can really just water all that down and get to the point. And sometimes that's not everyone's bag, and that's okay. The original is definitely a slow burn, but I think it needs to be to really make you feel some type of way. In the remake, so much is going on and in your face, and it's a lot of action that it is very much psycho. It's a lot of um all these other films like Strangers and Eden Lake and all these other elements to it, I think. Again, evident in the trailer, unfortunately. But that's why I feel like when it comes to both films, though, I don't necessarily know if it's scary. And I wanna bring that up because maybe that's a going to be a disappointment for some people walking into this expecting. That it's going to have the typical jump scare, like be an actual scary film. I think it's the subtext and the situation that's scary. And we talk about that sometimes with certain films. I don't think that this is going to be something that outright like frightens you in the middle of the night, but it is going to get you a little upset and be like, Oh God, I'm going to second guess a couple of decisions. And there's lots of films that are like that that make you feel some type of way about certain things that you find normal and natural, especially in human nature.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

Yeah. The director of the original film really wanted to play into the cringe and the politeness, honestly, to a detriment that he finds even in like Scandinavian culture. So the horror is not what lurks in the dark of night. The horror is not the big bed and boogeyman or the monster under the bed or in the closet. It's not the inevitable march of time and how we're all going to expire. The horror of this movie is other people. It's engaging other people. So I think if you can go in with that in your mindset, I think you're going to find, oh, okay, that's pretty intense, but it's never going to really scare you. This is a movie that I think is super safe to watch with anybody who is not afraid or who may be susceptible to jump scares because this isn't gonna have a lot of it. But I do think the content of the film itself would be too much for some people. I don't think I can show this to either of my sisters, for example. I think it would be too much for them. I think the tension and the fear for the outcome of certain characters would be too much for them.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Is it a scary movie? Neither of them are. James McAvoy is fucking unhinged. He's every bit as threatening to his counterpart in the original film, but they're just not scary movies. They're suspenseful, they're psychological, they're thrilling, but they're not scary.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

And I think a big part of it too is also that as you watch the film, you may feel like this could never be you. But if you listen to our B-sides, you will definitely learn that it could be you. Let's be real. I I feel like we talked about certain scenarios in which you start to realize how nice you actually are in certain or you know, or not.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah. What's your threshold? This reminds me of the effect that another movie has. It's a thriller, so it's not horror, but uh, it's called Divella. It's a German movie, and it's based on kind of an American experiment in a classroom where a teacher trying to teach kids about like fascism and autocracy, and they don't believe that they would be susceptible to it. And then he puts them through this experiment and they completely buy into it without even realizing it. Fascinating film. It's so good. It's based on the like real life kids who have the same reaction to it. That being said, it's a German film, so it's not an American one. It also still has an explosive ending, but nowhere near the kind of stuff that we do. It's just dramatic. And I think that's what you get in the first one. You get that drama that's created, you know, with the character work here and with some acting and with some blank stares, and it's just it's really effective. It's not, you know, it's not going to cause like instant fear and like, oh my gosh, something could happen that's really bad. But it should make you just question stuff, I think. It should really make you question all sorts of ways that people behave without even realizing it. I think there are some folks who think this movie is commentary on fascism, and although it's not, it actually works really well for that. And then when you get into the new one, it's not as tense as the 2022. The 2024 American version, they skip through so much stuff, moments that were incredibly tense and awkward that it doesn't have it anymore. That doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it has a different feeling. It's shooting for a different emotion when it's showing you stuff on the screen. There's still awkwardness, there's still some moments of tension, but that was like 90% of the makeup of the 2022.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, I think if you're a specific kind of person that maybe relates to some of these characters, this one's gonna hit a little bit different for you, right? Like if you're super like introverted, if you don't speak up for yourself often, if you find yourselves in this type of like personality trait, this one might actually instill a little bit of lingering fear or really validate maybe some fears that you have in your subconscious and things like that. But I don't think outside of that, to everyone's point, either of these two films are like particularly scary as far as like make you jump or anything like that. I think the original is very harrowing, it's devastating. While I feel like the new one is impactful in different ways and suspense, but not in the same ways. I think neither of them are scary, but they do build good suspense. And I think the previews for the remake made the film feel much scarier than it really was. If you really watch those previews, I was expecting some pretty like pop-out scary, like hair-tingling moments, and when those scenes hit, it felt lackluster.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

It did. But I also want to zero in on this lackluster comment because as I've sat here and I think about everything that I've said about this so far, right? I've I've been entertained by both of these movies. I can appreciate how the remake differentiates itself, and you give it credit for that, for not being an exact carbon copy of the original film. It's subtle difference, it's nuanced, but it's there. But there's something to be said about the feeling you get from the original film because I don't think I've ever felt anything quite like that exactly in a movie. Maybe I've gotten close, there's just nothing that comes to mind, and it feels like a very unique experience. Whereas if you told me that Speak No Evil 2024 was not a remake of anything, it still would feel really fucking familiar. Maybe it's because of how much action there is, maybe it's some of the dialogue that we get and some of the subtle changes to the characters and how even some of the antagonists in this movie are connected. There is something about it that makes it feel I wouldn't say a little bit cheaper, but just certainly a little more common.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

So very much agreed. There's a feeling to it that like you've seen this before, you're not sure which other movie or TV show this was pulled from, but it's there. It like shares something in common. And story-wise, it feels way more generic than watching the 2022. You watch the 2022 and you're thinking, like, wow, you got me. Even if you have an idea of what the story is about, seeing it play it out on screen, you're just like, wow, I wasn't expecting what you showed. I mean, there was no way you could expect what was going to happen or how it felt, I think is what it really is. It just the feeling it leaves you with is different. But when you get to that 2024 and you make it to the end, you're like, cool, I watched another blockbuster horror movie. That's really what this is. Just another one. They got me, okay, cool. They got my $20 ticket. Sounds great.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Yeah, I I couldn't agree more. And I think to what I mentioned earlier in terms of the overall comparison to Eden Lake and The Strangers, like that kind of vibe, it's definitely prominent in the 2024 version. I think the social commentary for both is great. And I believe, Chris, earlier you mentioned that even the remake still addresses it, but it maybe in a slightly different way. And I do agree, and I can't wait for us to unpack that in the spoiler zone. Despite the changes that the 2024 remake makes, unfortunately, to its detriment, those changes are what makes it so unoriginal. And like every other blockbuster horror film that we've seen, and given the Blumhouse effect, quite frankly.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah. I think, in my opinion, both of these films feel familiar. Family goes on trip, meets some people. People or things aren't exactly what they seem. Some weird shit goes down, right? I feel like we have seen this in a lot of other movies, but I think both movies find a way to keep the story entertaining, and they both find ways to separate themselves from each other. So when you're just comparing the two, I guess you have to give originality points for how they both really kind of told this story. I think the craziest thing is that I read somewhere that the 2024 version was a shot for shot remake. And I think in many ways there are things that are similar, but in many ways it's not even close to a shot-for-shot remake. There's a lot of similar stuff, but there's a lot of stuff that's very differentiating. But nothing speaks more to that than the ending for these two films because they couldn't be more different, right? We're talking about the changes that the 2024 remake made. A big change is the fucking ending. In the original Danish version, the ending is shocking in a way. You're not really expecting it to end that way. And maybe that's again because of the order I watched these in, not knowing anything about them, but the ending was so impactful, so shocking, just didn't see it coming for whatever reason. And the American remakes ending, I feel like is a much more enjoyable ending, I guess you could say, right? Like between the two, though, I gotta say I enjoy the original ending the most. If we're gonna like put it out there, comparing two, I mean there's people on opposite ends. I think Ari loved the remake ending. My wife loved the remake ending, I like the original ending. I think it was shocking, I think it was devastating, and I love that kind of shit.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

100%. It's that right there. Depends on the kind of person that you are. I feel like I will find out if I'm right or wrong about Chris's opinion on this ending. I, for sure, feel like the original is probably one of the most impactful endings of arguably maybe the last five years. Be careful if not longer. And I think it has a lot to do with the brutal truth. And it just comes right down to it. I keep saying it. Foreign films have no problem being brutally fucking honest. And sometimes it means not rainbows and butterflies. And unfortunately, that is where the US tends to cater to its blockbusterness. And every now and then, you know, they try to dabble in that. But for the most part, it's the same copy and paste stuff with its endings. So I think whereas the original drives home the whole point of its message and the social commentary on civility and passivity and being nice, the remake just goes in a whole other direction. And I feel like when it got to a certain point in the story, I was like, wait a fucking second, something is said. And I'm like, oh wait, the movie's not over yet. There's still time here. And that's where I knew this shit was going way downhill from there. At least for my taste. Because if I had already anticipated how this was gonna go, knowing that it was a remake, that particular moment just solidified it.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

I liked both endings.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Knew it.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

I like the ending really diverts from the bleakness of the original in the remake. Because Americans like to tell a different type of story. Because Americans, for as long as America has been in existence, wants to paint the story of, you know, heroism. Now and that's not to say that this is a necessarily happy ending. Both movies are filled with lifelong amounts of trauma for anyone associated in the periphery of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

You know, lifelong in some, maybe not in others.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

Yeah, sometimes longer than others. Here's the thing the ending in the original is so much better. It's quite it's a moment. It capitalizes on the discomfort that it has been subjecting you to the entire way through. It's almost like people who think they can train their dogs, their potty training, when they go in the house and some people just fucking stick their nose in it and rub it in there and like, don't do this again.

SPEAKER_05 34:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:03

Like you're really trying to teach it a lesson, it doesn't fucking work, the memories aren't that long. It had that kind of energy about it because this movie, and by this movie I mean the original film, forces you to sit there and reckon with the consequences of submitting to societal and social pressures. It forces you to reckon with the consequences of ignoring your instincts. And that's why it's a way more impactful ending for me. But I like both. I wasn't dissatisfied by other. One just made me feel so much more.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

It's very dark, the 2022. The ending is very dark, it's very depressing. That doesn't make it necessarily bad, but it is an audience-specific thing. I think if you think about the way that Americans work, you know, we have Doritos Locos Tacos. We have Crunch Wrap Supremes, okay? And we strayed from the source material. We did, we used it, but we strayed. And why? Because at 2 a.m., do you enjoy a Crunch Wrap Supreme? Absolutely, you do. And we engineered it to be that way. We put ingredients in peanut butter that have no reason being in peanut butter. But why did we do that? Because it makes it spread better, because it makes it last longer, because it subtly affects the taste. That's just how we roll. We make everything palatable for everybody. And so we wanted a more entertaining ending. Americans love happy endings. People in general do, but we really do. Like even in literature, we just love happy endings for whatever reason. I don't know, we're boring, perhaps. And so I think the ending we get here, it's entertaining. It's engineered to be that way. We are simulating those dopamine things going on in your brain because that's how we like to roll. And I think what's lovely about the 2022 is you don't have to enjoy the ending. It's not about enjoyment, right? It is about feeling. And there's a lot of criticism online from people who think that the ending is so unrealistic and that suspension of disbelief is too hardcore and that they just couldn't enjoy it once they got to the end. And it's like, you're absolutely missing the point. You're missing the joke, honestly. It's like, this is really black humor here, and you're completely whoosh right over your head. But if you suspend that disbelief and you make it through the end, you can see a lot of similarities to whatever culture you're a part of. It's going to be there, but especially Northwestern European culture. It's funny to me because Dutch people are generally incredibly friendly. So the idea of being invited to a weekend by some Dutch folks actually adds up. Super nice, super funny, great senses of humor, but they are absolutely completely honest and crass. And to them, that's just how to roll. But I'm here for it. So it's interesting to me to see this back and forth between the two different cultures. Well, now we have in the 2024, we have Americans and a couple folks from the UK. And it's like, okay, we're not that actually different. If anything, the roles should be reversed, I think, here. It should be that the peeps from the island should be the ones who are too polite, and that the Americans are very crass and very in your face. That's probably closer to real.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Don't you remember the American Revolution?

unknown 36:59

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

That's not how this works.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Yeah, it just seems a little backwards culturally, but I think there's nothing wrong with enjoying both endings. The ending in 2022 just hits, it punches you right in the face. And I was really upset while watching the 2024 because it's so different. It is all of that extra palm oil in the peanut butter. And it kind of makes you angry because you're like, you don't need it. You need peanuts and salt. What are you doing here? But, you know, by the time you spread that gif out, you're like, this is a really tasty sandwich. I am entertained, but you just have to realize it's two different stories being told. And so, yeah, they try to go after some of the criticisms of the 2022, but to address that, they had to completely change the meaning and completely change the story. But that's okay, you can still enjoy them separately.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Well, it sounds like a little bit of a mixed bag so far, despite how these ingredients are made. But I can't wait to see how this actually shakes out in our ratings. Now, before we actually score both of these films, Sean, how would you describe the gore score for each?

SPEAKER_01 38:01

I can go ahead and just lump them both together because I feel like we had some moments sprinkled in throughout both of these movies. There were some moments that were pretty graphic for sure. I think both movies had moments that were pretty graphic. I think there were moments that could have been even better if we got a little bit more of them, I dare say. But overall, there just isn't enough in either of these films that would really warrant anything higher than a low gore score.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_03 38:32

So I would argue that both are safe, but I feel like in the 2024 film, they actually like are a bit more picky or seem like they're making fun of vegetarians or definitely assholes to them. So I want to say that on principle Pito would be upset, but not in the way that I typically would be reporting.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Both versions of Speak No Evil will start with a 2022 version. Was it a hack or a slash? And I think I'll kick us off. This movie was one hell of a fucking ride. That is such as from the beginning of this movie, it just really initially sets up this awkward tension-filled dynamic and it sets it against the backdrop of a picturesque vacation. But even though it does that, there's so much that it's already lying beneath the surface. Because even from the music, you know that it's just the illusion of serenity, but it's also you know immediately that it's not going anywhere good. And the characters in this kept me invested from start to finish because they're layered, they're frustrating. I couldn't stand a single fucking decision they were making. But I also understood that it was not for me to understand because it wasn't made to represent me. It was made as an allegory or a satire of an entire culture from that culture. And I can appreciate that. It's still all too real despite being satire, because the director himself describes this Scandinavian tendency to just not discuss how you're feeling, to remain polite, to behave nicely, to suppress what you really think. And you know what? In some ways, it's also Latin culture. Air said it. We don't talk about how we feel sometimes, you know, at least in these older generations. There are so many hesitations from characters, there are polite attempts to fit in, and those things just collide head on with an antagonist that has this insanely unsettling confidence. Like no one has that much business being that confident. And there are moments in this movie that made me laugh, and moments that fucking infuriated me, but there are many more moments that unsettled me, and that's where this movie really shines. It has this slow burn tension, but it's so well paced that it doesn't overstay its welcome. So it's absolutely a slash.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah, you know, this is a very dark film, right? This 2022 version, it's a dark film in many ways. It's full of hopelessness, and it's a real fucking downer. Let me tell you, it's a real fucking downer, just so y'all know. So naturally, this is a pretty good fucking movie. The inability to remove yourself from uncomfortable situations and not wanting to upset people you don't even fucking know. Everyone has been there in some regards at one point in their life. It's so relatable in that way, I feel like. I feel like you can relate to some of these moments. You may think we're making bad choices and we're making dumb decisions, but when you really fucking think about it, we've all been in scenarios where we've done the same thing at some point in our life. And I also think it's this sort of satirical situation where they put this family into situations to test them, to see if they'll fight back, trying to really just own them in a way. There is this underlying sense of dread about this film. It's super dark. The way the landscaping is shot with the cinematography, it all just really adds to the film in an antagonizing way. I feel like it was a really well done film, and I don't know why it's not rated higher, to be honest with you. It's it's really wild to think about. But you you may speak no evil, but I'm sure seeing that evil and it's a devilishly good time with some pretty shocking moments, and I feel like those moments really sit with you long after it's over. So for me, it's a tongue-slicing slash.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Oof. Yeah, I mean, this film is stunning. It's incredibly well acted, it's tense and awkward as hell. It's hilarious commentary on society, but it's also human. The characters are grounded and imperfect. It's gonna get under your skin. It knows how to let things simmer and reach their full flavor potential. The buildup here is steady and well-earned, and it culminates in an ending that shocks you, pisses you off, and makes you laugh at how ridiculous it is. But on purpose, it's a hundred percent a slash.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

I feel like I've already alluded to what I'm going to rate this one. But look, it's just that it was a film that at the time I couldn't stop thinking about, and I was desperate to have my friends watch it. So I had someone to talk to. And I think that because the commentary that this film centers itself in, well, really both of them, but this one in particular is one that you really want to have conversations with your friends, with people that you are nice to all the time and see how it is that you would react. Because I think the beauty of this particular film is that because it's a slow burn, because it slowly gets you to this point of just wanting to scream because you're so frustrated, because you're so upset. The ending may not be what you had anticipated. And this is quite honestly this bleakness that you can't escape. You want to talk to your friends about and then realize that it really could be you. And I think that's the biggest point of all this is that. You mentioned it, Chris. Lots of cultures are just nice and they do things to not be seen as XYZ. You probably do things for your own parents, for your own loved ones to be nice, to not be off kilter, to not disappoint. And I think that really is talked about in a really fucked up way in this original one that you just gotta love. I I think that this one definitely is worth watching, even if you have seen the remake. And I think that it's very apparent that this was definitely a slash for me. And I'm glad that we kind of see it that way as well.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

Well, let's go ahead and dive into our ratings for Speak No Evil from 2024. Now, listen, this remake managed to surprise me massively, and I can appreciate that we start with the same setup, but the first scene shows us that this movie is taking us along as passengers down a dark road, both literally and figuratively. Both of these movies are really solid depictions of quiet confrontation. I mentioned that earlier. There's the tension of pushing boundaries, there is uh the question of how much you're willing to endure for the sake of that societal politeness. But if you're watching both of these back to back, you may find this one to be the one that's more hopeful, but that in no way diminishes I think really how dark a lot of it is. Because what it takes away from you in bleakness, it does give back with subtext that makes you wonder the further reaching scope of this entire story and what's going on with these characters. I don't think it's a better movie, I think it's nowhere near as nihilistic, and I'm not someone who typically likes those kind of movies, but I think this is the story that needed that. But I do think also in many ways that this movie is almost as good as the original, just in a very different way. It just depends on your personal tastes. And honestly, listen, I'm someone who I like real meat, but also I like meat substitute, and that's okay by me. This isn't a remake we needed by any means, but it still manages to have enough flavor and enough bite to make it worth a watch, so that's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

I watched it a day after watching the original, literally just back to back, one on one day, the next one on the other. And I think the 2022 has some big shoes to fill. Uh and at first watching this, I was disappointed in it. It felt rushed, less tense, more generic, and less interesting. But its biggest change, I think, was its biggest benefit. There was no way to copy the original and del and deliver the same experience. And there'd also be no point. They decided to tell a different story with a different monster, and I think it's definitely more applicable to an American audience. There was a lot of action, didn't necessarily need it, but it was very entertaining, and it gave a very different sense of resolution here. But it still had it and it was still enjoyable, so it's also a slash.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

Yeah, let me just jump in here because I feel like the problem with the new one is that it is over-Americanized, almost to its detriment, right? Like we're talking about these changes and how maybe American filmmakers want to tell a specific type of story, right, to really appeal to the audiences. And, you know, okay, that's cool, but when I'm stacking them both up together back to back for a watch, it doesn't really work for me. And before I get ahead of myself, I would also like to say that this is not a bad movie. The 2024 remake of Speak No Evil, it's not a bad movie per se, but I think watching it next to the 2022 version, don't think it's as good as the original Danish version. It took most of the things that made the original so impactful, so devastatingly horrifying and shocking, and diminished all of it, in my opinion. Tried to make the whole thing more favorable, I guess, right? If that's what we're calling it. And I think this one had some of the suspense and dread that the original had, but lost its potency because of the changes that it decided to make. And even though the film looked great, right, the acting was really good, it just doesn't hold up to the original. On its own, if not a remake, it would probably scrape by with a soft slash because it was a halfway decent and entertaining movie to watch. But because it's a remake of a truly harrowing film, but not as impactful, I feel like Speak No Evil 2024 is more like skip no effort because putting this one up against the original, this one's a hack.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

2024 version. I think, again, pretty obvious what I feel about this one, or maybe it's not because I've been maybe a little too harsh about one over the other. I'm gonna give this one a hack. But not necessarily a strong one. Like for all of the reasons I've already explained in terms of definitely catering to American audiences and things like that. I just don't think that it drives home the same message that they market that the 2024 version is trying to give. Because let me be very clear. The marketing for the American version makes it a point to say that they are still addressing human nature. They market it in the same way that they talk about the 2022 version. When it comes down to the meat and potatoes of it, it is very much like a lot of other slashers that we've seen, or, you know, like a lot of other movies that we've seen, and I've talked about it in Nazim, we all have. I think the marketing for this particular film was its own demise. I think it they definitely wanted it to be the James McAvoy show. And we've seen James McAvoy be crazy before. And I guess if you're a major fan of his, then you're gonna have a good time with this. I s certainly appreciate him in this film and in others. But when it comes down to it, I've already got this film and it's the original. And so going and seeing this remake, I was hoping that it would at least do something different, but it just did this different in the sense that it would be a cool commentary or or unique way to address the commentary that isn't like all the other films out there, but it is just another slasher in the horror genre of 2024 and the way that it's executed and marketed. And so it really is about your taste and preference. For Sean and I, it's obvious that we like the the grittiness, right? We like the bleak. Maybe for well, you guys both like the original too, but it's just that I think that for other people that maybe just want that hopefulness and that rainbows and butterflies, perhaps they're gonna like the 2024 version. Although I agree that no one is coming out of this happy and joyful, sure. But it's just a different approach. And so there's nothing wrong with that. I think it can be entertaining. I actually had a large gap of time between each film, unlike you guys. I saw this one in theaters. I went in, I had a great theater experience, you know, wrote my notes, but ultimately I've had that time to kind of like sit with it. And even the impact post-watching just doesn't hit quite like the original. So it's a hack, but to everyone that maybe enjoys a different type, no, it's just a personal preference. It's just my take. That's all.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

Well, with that, the original Speak No Evil has earned a universal slash. Well, its 2024 remake has earned two hacks and two slashes. Now there's a lot more to discuss when we return from our break. And if you've already seen either of these before, please let us know what you have rated. You can join the conversation for free in our Discord server, and that is linked below in our show notes. And listen, when we return from break, we have a lot to discuss. We're gonna dive deep into the spoilers on territory, we're gonna unpack the differences in these endings, so stick around. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

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SPEAKER_04 53:20

It had a worse fate. Two hacks and two slashes. Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Well, if you're looking for a high kill count, don't bother speaking this evil because between the two of these films, there's a total of, what, six on-screen kills? That's three kills that we see on-screen in the original Danish version, and three kills that we see on screen in the American remake. We're not racking up the kill count in either of these films. But of course, we have the question of how many families have fallen victim to this couple over the years. Nothing's really confirmed. We know that you know this has happened. We know that in a sense it continues to happen, at least in the original one. So that's kind of up for debate. We also have the honorable mention of Libby the Goose, you know what I mean? So that that's always an honorable mention, the poor goose just trying to live its best life, and then boom, snapped its neck, and that's supper. So that sucks. But I do gotta ask, because some of these kills are pretty jarring despite not being super gory. Which evils are you speaking of? Which were your favorite kills?

SPEAKER_04 54:31

Holy shit. I ain't like a single one of them from the original film, but I think we can hopefully agree that Patrick's absolute fucking murder at the hands of Ant in the remake was so gratifying.

SPEAKER_03 54:47

That a thousand percent was because I felt that scream or attempt to scream, which is even sadder, in my chest. Fantastic. I was like, fuck that guy up, little kid. Fuck him up.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

It was also dark comedy when you see the way Louise is staring on in horror.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

Right.

SPEAKER_04 55:09

And it's it's funny, it's not supposed to be funny, it's harrowing, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:13

But it's also a little funny.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

I mean, but that's the thing. Like, we're rooting for it at that point. We're rooting for Ant, this poor dude dealing with all this shit, finally gets his revenge, and it's also, you know, getting your face smashed in with a stone is also a great callback to the original. So there is that callback, and that's cool. But yeah, I feel like that is a good one. I do also feel like the original getting stoned to death for both Luis and Bjorn is insane. I feel like that was just such a devastating, terrible thing, and just to know that it just goes on.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Continuing to be stoned. That's the other thing. I guess you anticipate like being stabbed, being shot, all these other things, but to be stoned, right? Naked in the middle of nowhere, it's terrible. Yeah, they did not hold back.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

I was just not ready for it. You got Agnes getting her tongue cut out right before that, and that was pretty graphic and jarring. And then for them to just meet their demise in the middle of nowhere, and they're like holding each other, and just to see that first rock hit the side of the head of Luis, it was just crazy. And just to think of all of the moments that Bjorn had to maybe change the outcome of this and didn't. And I think this is where probably a lot of people really dislike the choices that are made by these characters. And I've heard some people talk about this film, I've read some people's reviews of this film and just the hatred for like the decisions that these characters make, to the point of some people really not liking the film purely because they feel like this would never really happen. That could never be me. But let me tell you folks, it probably could be you. You don't know until you're in that situation when somebody has gotten into your head and manipulated you to this extent, right? And just like, you know, they start off really subtle, pushing the boundaries and doing all this, but fuck man, crazy, absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

And I think the method of execution was just a way to further the whole point of the movie, anyway, because it's not fast, and because you just they had to like sit there contemplating the fact that these people were gonna throw stones at them and do nothing, and then they have to sit there with every single stone that hits them, and that's gonna take a while. But I think my favorite kill between the two films was Kiara's because of the pacing of it. I think it also felt like the most realistic kill because the way that she fell, she went down, and that to me was very satisfying. Almost more satisfying than Patty's death. Should he have gotten taken out, of course, but I think it was just so dramatic, and that's perhaps why I like Chiara's kill a little bit more, because it wasn't very dramatic in comparison, and it felt a little bit more realistic.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

So here's the thing I was on the way to being satisfied by Kiara's death, and then she didn't land on her head. She was vertical coming off of that roof, and then she just flattened out and then just fell down, and it felt more like you should have life-threatening injuries, but the height of that roof just didn't scream immediate death to me.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

I kind of had that feeling too. I was like, maybe she could get up from this, possibly.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

Yeah, yeah, she absolutely should have been able to. Again, had she remained vertical, or like we see her neck snap back or something like that, I'd a hundred percent believe it. Holy shit, that sucks. That's crazy. But then she just fell flat, and her death fell flat for me.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Well, she probably snapped her neck just in a less dramatic way than it snapping backwards.

SPEAKER_04 58:58

Yeah, well, it's not fun if it's not dramatic in the movies, Mac.

SPEAKER_03 59:02

And how about the chef? My man is an accomplice, and so you get cooked.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

The hammer in the back of the head was insane. I actually was not expecting to see it, but we got it.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

Which is kind of crazy. It talks about the politeness, even with between him and obviously the power of Patty to have that effect on even the townsfolk to an extent. Well, obviously they're getting a cut, and I understand that, but what people are willing to do for one another is wild.

SPEAKER_04 59:31

Says the girl who has loyal tattooed on her.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

Look, yes, but I would not. I understand that I'm very nice, and like we're we were talking about that, especially in B-sides, but no, I I wouldn't go through all that. I would not be this chef, dude.

SPEAKER_04 59:44

You know, I'm happy to offer my services, but maybe this is a little bit much.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

But maybe this is a little bit too much.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

Shout out to our boy in the original film who just found floating in a fucking pool.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

They just went hard in the paint in that film. When it moves past that and he's just face down, I was like, oh, they legit did it. I figured we were gonna get here, but not in this way.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

They took his ass out.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

I stared at it for a while, refusing to comprehend that that sweet little boy was just gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Gone. That's what I'm saying. Like this movie, the 2022 movie just said, fuck you guys, nothing good's coming out of this. Like, literally nothing good is coming out of this, and it's a fucking downer. I told you earlier, it's a downer, but it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

You know what's not a downer though in the 2022 is the sense of ambiance that we get. And they do so much to create that, but the wide shots that we're given, there's like even a moment where there's a nice boca standing outside and the sun is kind of off at an angle. You can kind of feel the texture of the leaves and the grass, especially in the wide shots. It's just amazing. They just made it everything looks so beautiful, and it almost feels like hyper-realistic, but at the same time dreamy. Yeah. I don't know how they did it, but it was fantastic visually.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Well, cinematic landscape shots, feeling of how remote they really are. There's nowhere to go. I think it adds to this antagonizing aspect of the film, both films really, because it just makes you feel like you're in this place where no one's really going to help you. It's an unknown.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

Yeah, it's isolation.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

Which I feel like in the 2022 version, you said ambiance and it made me feel like it's because it felt a little bit safer, especially at the beginning of the film, like the whole environment felt safe and comforting and so dreamy in a sense. And I've kind of felt that way with 2024 as well, especially when they were on vacation still with the other couple. But when it comes to the house, when we then get into the actual houses in both films, I feel like the set design needs to be commended in both. It's like this clutter, especially in the 2024, it's this clutter. It's you're trying to make sense of are these people actually doctors or what do they actually do? Can they be trusted? It seems like it's a little bit of disarray. And then where they're staying as well, it's starkly different in both films, but it's still uncomfortable for both. And I kind of appreciated that. The overall house and its intentionality and how it's supposed to make you feel is so different than how you were feeling at the beginning of the film when they're on vacation.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:24

Yeah, I actually wanted to commend the set design in both as well, because of that very reason. Look, even in my current living conditions, very tight quarters, and it feels like you're just on top of each other and you're on top of everything. And that is the exact feeling that was evoked looking at anything that was happening within the confines of this home. And it's wild because obviously they're surrounded by miles of nothing. Even the opening film on their way to vacation, it's a group of people that are together, but they're separated from most people. And then when you get into the remake, it's like a complex, like almost like a little compound that they have to themselves. This feels so tight and it feels so suffocating while it also feels so overwhelmingly expansive. There's no hope coming, there's no backup, there's no one coming to help you. And it's a very silly comparison, maybe, but anytime I see something like that, it always reminds me of the original Scream when Casey's on the phone and he talks about how long it's gonna take for the cops to come because they're out in the middle of nowhere, like they're further out from everybody, and that's just that like terrible fucking realization. I also gotta say though, in addition to that, the music. Yeah. Again, I know I talked about it like in the beginning of the original film, those musical notes just fucking hit. And it's not the shining at all, but the idea of people on a long winding road with some great aerial shots or some environmental shots, some wide shots. Man, that shit just hits.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

For me, yeah, part of it is the music or the score in the original. I feel like it's really also kind of what I talked about earlier, all is the cinematography matched with the score because there are those moments in the original where it's like these muted moments with this really intense high score that's kicking in, that's like really just making you unnerved. It's there to evoke a reaction out of you, whether you like it or not. And I think it was really effective in that way. But I think for the remake, it's not a lot of that. Like the cinematography, it's not that it's bad in the remake, but I think most of what I'm feeling is from, you know, we said it, the James McAvoy show, right? And that's where I feel like I'm getting most of the feels, and so it has to be one of the better parts of the remake, would be just the acting, because I feel like it was a phenomenal job. We know that he can do that kind of role, we've seen that kind of role already.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:00

You know what though? It's exactly because of how effective he is that made my favorite scene in the remake so powerful, and it actually goes into why I really enjoyed a lot of this movie, and it's the dynamic between Ant and Agnes because there's that moment where Ant is showing Agnes the photo album, he's trying to express what's happening, but before he can do that, he's grabbing the chain off of Patty's body, the lanyard, the leash to get the key to get into that compartment or that cellar that's in that little outhouse. The tension in that moment was the most terrifying thing in the whole movie. And I said earlier that it's not a scary movie, but the suspense and the care that you feel for these children this is exactly why. Because also, fucking James McAvoy waking up, there's that moment later where Ant goes back to return the keys and you think that he's been busted, and it's just this long drawn out moment of. Having to reclip the keys and just seeing if Ant can outsmart this complete fucking sociopath and actually get the keys back on before he's caught. That shit was just wild. Again, because of James McAvoy's performance, which, you know, he said it's like his show. Maybe he could have dialed it back a little bit. It made that super effective.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Oh, definitely. That was definitely one of my favorite scenes. I think also one of the better scenes in the 2024 remake was the dinner scene at the friend's house that was also in the middle of nowhere. The chef friend. I thought at that moment in that scene, the chef friend was kind of hilarious, but there were these things that start to get really awkward, right? There's the whole role-playing thing and how long and drawn out that was, and it was so uncomfortable. It was one of the few moments in this film that I feel like got close to giving me the feeling of the original film.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

Oh my god, that was I remember watching that, feeling so uncomfortable myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:04

Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:04

And I felt like obviously they had a moment of dancing and being really close and all over each other in the original. But I was like, all right, Louise, you're kind of re- overreacting here. I think you can ease up a little bit with Patrick and Karen. But for this one, when she's legitimately on her knees underneath a napkin pretending to give him a blowjob and he's pretending to feel all these things.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

Receive the blowjob.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:28

I was like, maybe it was actually happening, and they were just real quick about it. I don't know. It was a little too convincing. Hated it, hated every second of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

He had been getting feet work the whole time leading up. We just didn't know. I I think you've mentioned that the tension between the two is different, but the 2022, I think, is definitely stronger. And there's a a scene that could be a favorite scene, but it's too awkward. And that is the dance scene. And the 22 nails it over 2024. But leading right up to that, I think, is the scene in which gosh, we're eating lunch and we're talking about cheese. By the way, Dutch cheese really is absolutely amazing. So I have to agree on that. But we're having this lunch and uh we just cross every boundary possible. We see the the replacement mother moving into action. And it's bold. It's in your face. The fact that she was giving the commands and the instruction in Dutch should have been really telling. Because it's like you're gonna learn how to understand what I'm saying, even if you're Danish, I don't even care. Shout out though, Danish cheese Havardi is amazing. Number one cheese in the world, just saying. But the scene is kept off by a heavy wine pour at the end, which I thought was absolutely brilliant because it was like, oh, you need to relax here, have this wine, even though we absolutely crossed every possible boundary and pushed into stuff that's like completely inappropriate. We shouldn't be talking to your kids like this, we're strangers. Drink some wine and get over it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:58

But tell me that's not real. Tell me that hasn't actually happened. People crossing boundaries, especially with parenting, what's new?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:06

If you are someone who has constantly had your boundaries violated or pushed or crossed or questioned, this movie will be infuriating for you. And that was a moment that was also infuriating for me, Mac. Oh I'm thinking about even both of those scenes, right? When you have the confrontation of the parenting, stop telling my child what to do, it's inappropriate, it's not your place. In both of the films, it was fucking like such a great release of pent-up tension. Honestly, when Bjorn finally grows a pair and confronts Patrick about how he's treating Abel after the dancing, it's like, okay, finally you fucking said something. Jesus Christ. It's it's taken it long enough to get here. But man, I think about these moments that either Bjorn or Louise stand up for themselves, and it feels like, okay, please get let's get let's have some more of that. We need some more of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

Yeah, it's few and far between for sure. I think in the original, speaking of Bjorn and Patrick, I really appreciate the scene where the two of them are screaming at each other because their dynamic is so fascinating in both films, really. But in this one, that scene was executed so well because the first thought that came to my mind was this just goes to show you that even toxic masculinity is not safe from the dangers of passivity within one another. It's also talking about how men, I guess to some extent, especially in this film, will do whatever they have to sometimes to impress other men. And I feel like as a woman, we do that a lot, right? I I know for sure that women are always comparing themselves to other women, and I think that's very much the same case for men too. And this just also means that in Bjorn's case, so much so that you are willing to put your loved ones in precarious situations as a result, just to continue to impress someone and to seem like you're a macho man. And so in 2024, one of my favorite scenes actually was the dancing scene, because I think, yes, that is where the James McAvoy show really just goes off the wall. But it's another one that's at the very beginning and it's when they first meet. And the way that Patty disarms Ben is by making fun of the Dutch family. And that is different in the original. In the American version, they use comedy in making fun of other people. And that is a type of humor that both British people and American people have in common. We're very snarky and that kind of dry humor, making fun of people, being sarcastic. That is a cultural thing that we both share. And so using that to disarm him and gain his trust in that way is brilliant. Not only for the fact that they made fun of a Dutch family, so that's an exceptional nod, but it also just privies what's to come, which is the fact that you're going to impress him. You're going to like, oh, he gets me. He thinks it's funny, like he understands, and then it's just a landslide from there.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:07

Yeah. So there's so much to unpack there, especially because it's not even just the style of humor, right? But it's just typical in-crowd shit. It's I'm gonna bring you closer and make you feel special. It's predatory. And there is for sure an entire layer of subtext here on the gender dynamics and identity of these characters and how that plays. Like there are very specific intentions in the remake to make Ben more of what's perceived to be like a beta male. I personally like to just put all that shit as bullshit because it's fucking people. It it's people, and regardless of your masculine or feminine energy in however you identify, you can make terrible fucking choices, but at the end of the day, people want to be seen and they crave to be seen. You either have attention or crave attention, or you are confident in yourself to not want those things. And that's an oversimplification, obviously. But the reality is that Bjorn goes from pensive discomfort to forced confrontation by the end of the movie. He is honestly in so many moments a character. He's unsatisfied, he's dissatisfied with himself for the life that he has lived up until this point, and he wants to be seen. He's tired of blending in with the background, and he wants to feel special. So when he sees the kind of person that he wants to be more like, of course he's gonna gravitate to towards that, and it absolutely is something that just grates at my very soul because it's like, okay, if your ego had been lessened, your family would still be alive. That's the reality of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

Yeah, for sure. There's a lot to talk about with this film. I think, even just to go back to what you were talking about, Binks in the 2022 with Bjorn and Patrick screaming on that hill or whatever. I mean, I think that one is impactful for a lot of the reasons that you were sharing, but it's also interesting that it was the place that they ended up dying as well. So it's like a foreshadowing scene. I did think that that was really good. I also in the 2022 loved the scene where Bjorn is like walking through the house at night, the TV is on and blasting, he turns the TV off, right? The water's running in the kitchen, so he goes into the kitchen and turns that off. And while he's walking through the house, you can see someone outside Patrick or whatever looking in, and it's just this crazy suspenseful time of watching this character go through the house in this almost like he's playing games with this dude, but then he finds the room with all of the pictures of the families. And I, you know, I liked how both movies kind of give you the plot reveal, but this one felt like I I don't know, maybe a little bit more suspenseful in a different way, creepier way than where the remake with Ant trying to tell tell Agnes or whatever what's happening. I don't know, that was suspenseful because you don't want them to get caught, right? This was suspenseful because it felt like he's like walking through this house being followed or stalked by Patrick.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:10

Mm-hmm. Okay. The second you said that he's being watched, I was just immediately reminded of the fact that Patrick watched him have sex with his wife. He said nothing, and then says nothing when he learns of all the horrors. He could have said, We're leaving, by the way, here's all the shit I found. No. Doesn't even want to verbalize the horrors that he has discovered. He just wants to all of a sudden shift into this fucking domineering decision-making mode and get his family out. That's one thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:40

The dude walks in on Luis showering just to assert his fucking dominance in this household. He literally just walked in because he could.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:49

Yeah, that whole fucking thing is just wild. I also have to say though, it really frustrated me to no fucking end when he was there having to explain why they left in the middle of the night and he just turns to Louise to make her go ahead and tell them for what went wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:07

I mean, if you find your fucking kid sleeping with half naked or fully naked fucking random people, that's just a no-no. We're out of there. I'm sorry. This is fucking weird.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:17

Yeah, why do I need to have my wife explain that? Oh god, it's just so ridiculous. How it even gets to that point is absolutely asinine. But speaking of Louise, can we get into I'm gonna skip over to the 2024 version of Louise? I cannot stand that woman. Why? I can't stomach it from the get. I was like, oh wow, she is so much more annoying than I remember in the original. This is gonna be such a hot take. Please don't come from me, listeners. Hear me out for just a second. It's just that I'm gonna chalk it up to the fact that I am a Latina woman that was raised a particular way that is not necessarily common. I was raised to be very independent and figure my shit out, type of energy. So there's that. So when I see the kind of behavior that Louise is perpetuating that is giving a lot of coddling behavior and helicopter mom behavior, also as an educator, and I've had to deal with a lot of helicopter parenting with my students and stuff in the past, like it just brings something out of me. It really, really does. So there's a lot of moments in this remake where they're talking about that goddamn bunny. And I swear that I know that if that were me and I was that kid with my parents, they would have been like, get that bunny and it's going to be put in the trash. You're old, get over it, let's fucking go. Ataguando. You know what I mean? Like you're 12 years old, grow the fuck up. That's just me. That's how I was raised. And I understand that it's not how many people were raised. But it's just like, I think that for her, there's so much coddling that it's a lot. However, that's not to say that I think that Ben is great. I also can't stand that motherfucker either. Both of them really suck, quite frankly, especially in the remake. That man is also like the two of them just really need to get it together and divorce quickly for the sake of this young girl. And then maybe she can let go of that bunny safely and calmly and process her things. But the two of them together, rough. That's just me. That's my hot take.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:27

Okay. Their marriage, dislike. I agree that they need to move on. I had zero issue with Louise. I had zero issue with how she parented Agnes. I thought, listen, if she's coddling, she did a fine, damn fine job because that girl was able to think quickly on her feet, deal with some pressure, and figure out how to fucking get her parents' attention and pretend to have her fucking period to get her parents alone to be able to fucking tell them what's going on. So I think great job to Louise and Ben in that respect.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:00

That was smart. That was smart.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:03

But also, hold on. Because my boy aunt really did a lot of goddamn things and really held it on his own in this remake too, and was smart as hell, tried all kinds of different ways to deliver the message and to try to warn these people with zero parenting. Because let's be clear, Patty and Kiera are not good parents, obviously. Not to compare the children either, but I think that the children of this remake are the real winners here, and I will not let this episode end without giving them their flowers.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:32

Yeah, I mean listen, Ant is incredible, but also Ant has been conditioned for survival, and listen, he got got somehow, right? So looking at what happened with his parents, it's fucking terrible. But this kid has obviously dealt with and seen some horrowing shit. But the reason why I enjoy this remake so much is because of Agnes and Agnes' different role in this story. She's not just a passenger in this story, she's someone who moves this forward and moves her parents towards seeing what's going on. I love that we get this reality in which uh Agnes is the one who first discovers or sees from their family perspective what's happening versus just being this innocent child in the backseat who is all of a sudden getting scared. I prefer that. But going back to Louise for just a moment, the crime about Louise in this movie is the fact that they try to fucking paint this as if there's an issue with her because she had an affair. Because we couldn't just have two characters who were incompatible, it had to come down and they had to make us feel like, okay, maybe you're not supposed to like her as much because she had an affair.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:42

And what's funny is that I actually could care less about the fact that she had an affair. If anything, that's to my point about the masculinity piece. It that part of her having an affair is just to continue to wield the knife into Ben's ego and his masculinity, which I thought was unnecessary. It is very clear that the two of them are extremely incompatible, and they really emphasize that in this remake versus the original. And we could have left it at that. I don't think it was necessary. I completely agree with you on that one. My gripe, aside from the helicopter parenting that she was kind of giving, was also using the idea that the daughter Agnes has anxiety almost as a as a weapon, or like maybe not a weapon, but almost to get the audience fucking pissed. Because that is also a little fucked up. Because ultimately her attachment to this bunny is because her parents fucking suck, quite frankly. And yes, although I think that they need to tell her, okay, get rid of the bunny and let's move forward. It's obviously not happening because they could care less about their daughter in the sense of what's actually healthy for her. What's healthy for her is for them to figure their things out or to basically divorce. Then they wouldn't need the bunny. Take it from me.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:00

Issues or not, that fucking bunny is getting left in the fucking dust. You're getting over that fucking bunny.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:06

It's getting left in the dust.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:08

I don't care what issues there are, what we gotta fix. The first thing that's getting fixed is the separation from this fucking bunny. And Agnes should have fucking gone out of her way to fucking get them up to speed because of the bullshit that she put them through by bringing them back to the house for that fucking bunny. So she had to pay them back for that shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

You see, but that exactly is also so fucked up because ultimately it's like we're getting so pissed at the little girl and her attachment to the bunny when she has that attachment because her parents fucking suck.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

And although that bunny, I would have told my daughter to fuck off with the bunny and we'll handle that shit when we get home.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

It couldn't be worse than the original having the bunny under the seat the whole fucking time. Like they literally were gone, had to go back, and this fucking thing is in the car. You've got to be fucking kidding me. Fucking you're out. You can have this kid. I'll walk now. You're good. This kid's yours.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:01

That's so true.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

You don't even have to kill me. Have fun. Cut her tongue off, whatever. I'm out.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

But that's where the original continues to be so savage because they do that. At least in the remake, there's like, okay, it was actually taken. It was, you know, held hostage. Like it's an actual being, you know. I just think it's a little fucked to that's where I meant with the weaponizing part, right? It's like it's a little fucked to use that as a weapon or use Agnes as a ploy to get the audience upset at a little girl when she is attached to that bunny because her parents fucking suck gnarly. I get that.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:36

I wasn't upset with her at all because of the bunny, because I felt like I believed and understood why she gave a fuck about the bunny. Whereas in the original, I'm like, what the fuck do you mean you're turning around for this? Fucking me. This is fucking stupid. Like, there's no goddamn reason. This kid is fine. She just real fucking sad about put the pedal to the metal. You don't have to fucking stop, you don't have to turn around, you don't have to bust a UE out on this fucking two-lane road. You can just keep it pushing. But I appreciate there's a source of that, a reason for that in the remake. And listen, everybody's parents are fucked up somehow. That still doesn't make me hate Louise at all. I thought she was fucking excellent in the remake.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:17

Agreed. Actress and everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:19

I understand, and I knew going into this episode that I was gonna get roasted for that particular take. But I stand by it. I really do.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:26

I don't think you're getting roasted at all. I think you're just roasting Louise, and I'm disagreeing with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:30

No, I'm anticipating that listeners are gonna be like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

And I'm gonna be like No, I don't think that's gonna be the case.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:38

I don't know. I was like, girl, also at the same time, it's just a tell in terms of how you were raised, makes you reflect on how you were raised and the mother that you had, because a lot of that behavior on that dinner room table would have not fucking flown. That's for damn sure. And my parents were the ones that were like, get your elbows off the table, don't do this, don't do that, don't do you know what I mean? Like very much like rules, rules, rules. And I don't want to make it seem like they were very strict and assholes about it, but there were ways to, you know, behave at the dinner table or just in general. And I know that especially when it came to that little bunny, there are lots of stuffed animals that I had as a comfort thing as a kid that when I turned 10 or 11, that's decor, baby. You're not taking that shit anywhere. Or it's being donated to your younger cousins. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:29

Maybe I just fucking don't understand because I never had a plushie. Well, I probably did like I had plushies and my parents would buy me shit, but I never cared about them. Give me those action figures. Give me my Zorro action figure, my Lion King set.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:41

Okay, but if you had left your Zorro action figure at that house, would you have been crying about it?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:47

I mean, no, because if my parents thought they were gonna get me another one, I'd be like, all right, bet.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:51

Yeah, it wouldn't have ended in my favor, even if I wanted to go back. My parents would have been like, Stop fucking crying, I'll give you something to cry about. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:01

Also the point of her already knowing that something was wrong. And so, listen, in the original, this bitch is just missing the fucking bunny and she's missing the bunny. In the remix, she's like, we can't leave them there. They're gonna hurt her, they're gonna hurt him like they hurt Ant. And I'm like, Alright, Agnes, damn, okay. You're fucked up. I can get it. Like that's uh But I'm like, at least you had a little bit more of a fucking reason to annoy the shit out of your parents.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:25

But also it's a goddamn stuffed animal dog. You already know what they're capable of and what they're doing. It's not gonna actually hurt a stuffed animal. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:34

That poor girl's cooked. She's just cooked mentally.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:37

Alright, I can't wait to revisit this when you have kids' banks and see if you would agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. No, I I understand that I'm a load of shit right now. Just wait and see. And then I might be besties with Louise, honestly. Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

What I think is actually interesting in the dynamic of the characters between the original and the remake is that in the original, there's so many moments where Patrick is trying to push their buttons, right? Like he's trying to assert dominance, and he's got the scenes where he like intrudes on them, walks in on Luis in the shower, watches them as they're getting intimate. There's the whole force feeding, like the vegetarian thing, and we get a little bit about that in the remake as well. But in the remake, this couple is fighting back a little bit more. Like they're not just taking everything that this family is giving. Like they do to an extent, but they do decide to get out, they make a plan to go. Whereas in the original, they are presented with many opportunities to leave, all the way up until the very end, right? There's a moment where Patrick leaves the keys in the ignition in the original and goes out to take a piss, and that's a moment that they could have commandeered this car and maybe ran this motherfucker over, but they chose not to do anything. So it's just interesting the dynamic between the characters, how much they took in each film and what ultimately led to the outcome for each film.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:08

It it really seems that, you know, in the first one we're talking about how politeness can go too far. When you take it to the extreme, it's really to your detriment. But I feel like in 2024, it's just more kind of like barbarian talking about follow following your gut, you know, listening uh to your gut, feeling that intuition and just going with it. And the two are are different and the stories can be similar, I think, but the way that the characters interact in the second one doesn't have to be as creepy and as weird and as extreme as the 2022 because it's not about pushing to the extremes. It's really just about they can just be creepy people. They don't have to be special creepy people that have some kind of sense of smallness and detail. We don't we can just have a scene and are they gonna listen to their gut or not? That's what we're focused on. Versus like in the 2022 where you really have to have normal moments and then have moments that get progressively weirder and crossing more and more boundaries. I mean, how many guns did they even pick up in 2022? They didn't need to, right? But when we get to 2024, everybody can have a gun. It's fine, even though that would be like very difficult, I feel like, in the UK for them to have what, at least two guns. That's kind of surprising. But I don't know, it's a different feel, and so I think it makes sense that the characters also get to get different feels as well. I think Patty and Patrick are different weirdos, and it works. And I don't want to hate on Kiara. Who did we get in the 2022? Was it Karen? Is that right? Yeah, so you know, the closest there. I think I prefer the 22 version, but the 24 version played a different role in the story, and it was revealed so late and so quickly that part kind of threw me off. It feels really felt like it was stuffed in there where she was basically admitting to being his child bride.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:54

Yeah, I think that's that layer where can you a hundred percent tell if it's bullshit or not? Because she could just be lying to manipulate the situation, but obviously she is significantly younger than him. I think there's the implication that she's one of his earliest captive captives, and that's where I'm talking about where the scope of this feels so different. You have all these people helping you, okay? You have the cook and you have the babysitter, and you have that this whole dynamic, and obviously they had help in the original as well, but in this one, to go through that photo album to see how long this has been happening, to see how far this stretches back, and then to think, you know, at a second glance, was Kiara in there, maybe? It's fucking sinister and I hate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:42

I feel like that particular part, I'm so glad we're talking about it. I felt a little head scratchy about it because does the math really math there? I mean, I know that she's younger, but really that much younger? And if the reason that I felt very curious about it is because in the original, Patrick and Karen, the actors are actually married. So I feel like to me, it's like, okay, well, the dynamic there is very clear. That little tidbit of them actually being married is cool. I'm sure that plays into the chemistry, all that. Obviously, in the American remake, that's not the case. But even then, it felt like such a strange thing to make so poignant at the end. But I suppose to some extent it's a little bit of that American effect to add a little bit more of a plot twist, to add a little bit more of the curiosity and also more of the manipulation tactics that would be necessary and that I wouldn't put it past Kiara to do. But yeah, I guess it felt so odd that I just wrote it off as like, no, that's probably a lie, and I didn't even think much more about it until now that we're talking about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:45

Yeah, it feels like, and I won't spoil this movie, but Binks you'll know what I'm talking about, it feels like the Poughkeepsie tapes.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:54

It's interesting because I feel like Patrick or Patty in this case kind of validates her claim when he takes their daughter and is like, she's the only one I have to care about now. Or don't the only one who's gonna care for him now. You know, she's gonna take care of him, which is creepy. You're gonna this twelve-year-old's gonna be now your caretaker. I mean, the dude's only forty-five, like James McAvoy himself. So, like when did he pick her up? How young was he when he stole his wife?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:21

I mean that is an interesting dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:23

You know what? Might be the worst part of the movie for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:27

Really? Now that we think about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:29

Yeah. Well, it was that, it was the implication of the pedophilia, but then also the very obvious like this is fucked up. One of the other worst parts of the remake. And the way that he dismisses her, when he says, You should have said something about the meat. Oh okay, listen, she spits it out. She didn't even fucking swallow the golden goose. But for him to have the fucking nerve to say you should have said something, it it's aggravating, it undermines her, and you know what? It's just a fucking projection of his own inability to communicate. You should have fucking said something the entire goddamn duration of your existence, Ben. But yet you say nothing. You say nothing because the only person you're comfortable confronting is her, which is exactly what she calls out later, which is exactly why I like Luis.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:20

No, and then you lost me with that la part, but I agree with you about 97% of that statement, without a doubt. 100%. I would say that the best part of the 2024 film is, and that actor, what's he up to? What's he got booking next? Because that little boy nailed the fuck out of that movie. He was fantastic. Quite frankly, I think I liked his performance almost just as much as James McAvoy's, if not more, because I think it was so impressive. Child actors are very hit or miss, and we talk about it sometimes. I think that more often than not, they've been hitting lately in the more recent films that we've been reviewing, but he just really drove home this sense of dread, of sadness, of trying to find a way to send the message out, obviously without having a tongue, without being able to speak. But it really was that kill that just sold me. I was like, oh, wait a minute, let this kid cook for a little bit and he's gonna be a star one day, I hope at least. Because it was really, really, really good. And then for the original, I would say that the worst part really is the decisions. And maybe that's a cop out because I I actually don't have much that I would say is the worst part of the original, but it is like the decisions that are made that it can be frustrating after a while. Because if you are going into this film having already been spoiled as to what it is, let's say that you just unfortunately watched the trailer of the 2024 version. You couldn't escape it because very few on this planet have been able to. You got spoiled, and then you watch this 2022 version. Perhaps like those decisions that are made are gonna just really annoy the fuck out of you and maybe just deter you all together. I hope that's not the case. I hope listening to this episode has helped you convince your, you know, maybe reflecting, right? Or if you just skipped over and you don't really care either way, I hope you do watch it. But I think those decisions, quite frankly, are like, God damn, I really hope that wouldn't be me. I I think that maybe in some cases it would have, but I really hope that it isn't me, or at least that whoever I marry does not put me in that situation because that would suck brutally.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:25

Yeah. I think that needs to be your fucking filter on the dating apps. And I mean the general you. All you out there single, consider. Look at that person in the eye and think, would they put me through the bullshit and speak no evil?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:39

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:40

If they would, let them go. If they can see red flags and not address them properly, let them go. Let them go. But I actually want to back up what you're saying, Binks, because it's specifically Bjorn not communicating what the fuck he found. He found a dead child, he found proof of what's been happening, and he doesn't say a fucking word about what it was that he found. Worst part of the fucking movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:01

I think beyond that, because I mean these characters' actions exist only to further the point, to make it just hit you over the head with the meaning of this movie. But I think after all of that, I'm still just gonna complain about subtitles again, because from what I understand, the Dutch couple really doesn't say anything that would give anything away. So why not just let us understand what they're saying? Why not give us the subtitles? We get everybody else's subtitles. So yeah, that's my only gripe for the old one there, for the OG from all the way two years ago. And I think the new one, the worst part is just rushing through all of the moments of tension that the original had. Like squashing those down into a tidy little time so you can focus on the action. While it worked for the action, it was a bummer to miss out on those moments.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:50

Yeah, I don't know. I think Binks and I are pretty in tune for this episode because I really also was saying for the original, a lot of the frustration of that movie is the decisions that they're making throughout the film is like probably the most frustrating part of the film, but it's also the point of the film. So it is the worst part maybe of the film because it adds to the best part of the film, which is the message that it's sending. So it's kind of really hard to pull a true worst part of this film. Alternatively, the best part of the remake, again, it's gonna be acting, but not Ant. I do think it is the James McAvoy show because he is a fantastic actor, and the way he portrayed the character of Patty, I think carried the entire film, and I think without James McAvoy, that film would be fucking hot garbage.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:41

The only other person that could have pulled it off maybe Russell Crowe.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:45

Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:45

Okay, well, I don't care for Russell Crowe, so I'm glad we didn't get that. But let me tell you, despite liking both of these movies, do they have the potential for great rewatch value? Absolutely. I don't think though I want to revisit it. I might have one more watch in me. I think I want to show both of these movies to Allie and see how she feels about them, especially from her perspective as a mother. Both of them are great in their own ways, but I do not care at all to add as a regular my rotation. Not even a little bit. Too dark sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:17

I think it's a bit too heavy to watch, especially the 2022 is way too heavy to want to rewatch anytime soon. The 24 is just, I don't know. It's fine. It's just not enough to want to see it again.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:28

Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, that's just it. I don't know that I really want to re-watch either of these films. Like, the remake is not as good as the original, so why would I ever re-watch that one? And the original is so dark and devastating and heavy that like you just when am I gonna be in the mood to revisit that movie? I don't know. I think the only interesting thing that would maybe make me re-watch the films would be to try to see if I can now that I know everything that's gonna happen, maybe I can look for some signs, you know, along the way. But I really don't think I'll get to a place where I want to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:05

I need to unpack some of my life choices in therapy because meanwhile, I would definitely re-watch the 2022 version. I mean, I do have a few friends that haven't seen it that I'm hoping I could get them to watch it and I'll down to watch it with them. I enjoyed it a lot, so I've already seen it twice now in relatively recent time in between. So I definitely rewatched, but the remake, nah, I'm okay. And that's the part where it's like I hate to be that person sometimes. It's like, don't bother with the remake, watch the original, because that's not necessarily fair, and everyone likes their own thing. And I'll try to cater to the person depending on their interests, but yeah, for me, I'm okay with the remake, answer not, which you did get your kid, but not enough for me to see you again. I'll watch you in another film. How about that?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:52

Well, rewatchability aside, it sounds like we've had some mixed results here for Speak No Evil. Now, the original earned a universal slash, while it's 2024 remake earned two hacks and two slashes. We've had a robust discussion here. We've even had some debate here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:10

Yeah, if you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by subscribing through Apple Podcasts or visiting patreon.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:29

And we talked a lot about the dangers of being too nice, but in this case it's safe. So if you enjoyed listening to us unpack these films, leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:42

Our thanks again to Adam and Eve for helping make this episode possible. We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, you should have said something.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:49

Not gonna find this on Yelp.