367: Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday (1993)

SPEAKER_03 0:04

You just gotta ignite the light and let it shine. Just own the night like the 4th of July. Because baby, you're a firework. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You know what I want, and you know why I need you. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space guy Mac. You're alone, good girl, and the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Planning on smoking a little dope, having a little premarital sex, and getting slaughtered.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

As is tradition, when we release an episode on a Friday the 13th, we're progressing through the next installment of the franchise known for its iconic hockey mask slasher.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

And if you're a patron, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we rank the Friday the 13th franchise and explore the origins of this spooky date.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Now, before we jump back into Crystal Lake, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Let's follow up on some stuff. To our dear patrons, we're unearthing our earliest episodes in the crypt. Each week, we're going to revisit and analyze some of our very first recordings, exploring where it all began, and reflecting on how far we've come. Hosted by our beloved Hacker Slash historian and found footage fanatic Nathan, join us for a journey back in time as we uncover the foundations of Hacker Slash. It's raw, it's nostalgic, and it's a glimpse into the origins of our podcast. Don't miss this deep dive into the roots of the show. The first episode is available today as a taste of what's to come. And if you'd like to go back in time with us each week, consider becoming a patron at patreon.com/slash hacker slash. It's because of our patrons that we're able to continue reviewing every horror movie out there.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Yeah, I am so excited about this. Nathan sat down for an interview with me, and basically what the crypt is going to be is an episode where it kind of picks my brain. We talk about the genesis of the show, the origins of the show, etc. We look back in the show's history, and we do this for 10 episodes at a time. So we actually covered in that discussion the first time we did a Friday the 13th film. Because that was episode two of our show back in 2017. Now, the other cool thing about this is for obviously our patrons and our higher tier patrons that you're going to have a video version of that podcast. So you're going to be able to see that over on Patreon, and then we're going to week by week release all those old episodes completely preserved. It's as if they're frozen in time. This is one of the most popular questions we get in our DMs. It's always, where's the first a hundred and something or the first eighty-two episodes of the show? Well, now you know where you can find them.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Dust off the old cobwebs and hop into some of the oldies, you know?

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Well, that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Now, when last we visited this franchise, Jason Voorhees set sail to slaughter teenagers on a boat and subsequently spent a few minutes in Manhattan. Now we left Jason seemingly meeting his end in the toxic waste of New York City sewers, but his bizarre transformation left audiences with more questions than answers. Paramount passed the reins of the franchise to Newline Cinema, and Newline saw fit to not only resurrect Jason, but take both him and his franchise in a different direction. They deviated from the franchise's long-standing pattern of preserving its continuity and chose to ignore most of what came before it. Now set in a world that only canonically follows the first two films, allegedly, a pair of crystal like natives learn the shocking revelation of Jason's supernatural origins and try to find a new way to stop him, once and for all. This week we're talking about Jason Goes to Hell, The Final Friday. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Oh yeah. I've definitely seen this one before. I think I watched this for the first time, maybe in middle school, maybe in high school, somewhere way back when. Although sometimes I would say that I'd like to forget that I've seen this movie. But somehow I find myself watching this one every once in a while, and I just can't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

I have not seen this one before, to the best of my knowledge. I might have seen clips because there was a lot of stuff that was familiar to me. There's a different style in this film, and it maybe it's just the difference between 70s, 80s jumping to the 90s, but I remember watching at least one scene of it, thinking it looks so different from all the stuff that came before it. And as you're watching it, I think now it's it doesn't really, but it does. There's something just so different visually about this film from everything else that came before. And that's kind of like the only thing I had stuck to me about the movie because again, I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Bless you, Mac. I love that you've managed to escape unscathed thus far. Listen, I've seen this one before, but I've really never given it serious consideration because I've always thought it was the worst movie of the whole bunch. And it's the one that I put on, and I never really fully give my entire heart when I'm doing a franchise bid on every Friday the 13th. Because this movie has a reputation that is in some ways similar to Halloween 3's reputation. I won't reveal how until the spoiler zone, but for now I'll say this. Considering how much I've enjoyed Halloween 3, I walked into this this time around with a very, very strong will to reapproach this movie with a completely open mind.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Good for you.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

I listen, I did my fucking best, okay? I really came in here with the best of intentions. I was like, listen, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

This is so optimistic.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

You saw this when you were a fucking kid. What the hell did you know? You probably couldn't understand 90% of the shit that was in here, and then you just probably made up the plot as you went along. I went in here with a lot of effort.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

That's interesting. So I I didn't really know much about the story, didn't know what to expect. I knew obviously it's Friday the 13th, so you got to set your expectations accordingly. But I just expected Jason to go to hell and come back with extra powers like Spawn or something like that. But Friday the 13th is definitely one of those franchises where the movies are titled incorrectly, kind of like Star Wars, how all the subtitles should actually be flipped around. You have to remind yourself when watching these, that's really what should happen.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Yeah, you were expecting Jason to just take a nice little trip to hell on his way back to fuck some teenagers up.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Exactly. He comes back and he's got like a new hellish machete, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Bringing around town. Yeah, you're describing the plot of Jason X.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Yeah, I mean, it's super fair. If you've watched the first like eight installments of this franchise, you would probably be expecting this one to feel like a Friday the 13th movie. Jason resurrected in some bizarre way, slashing his way through a fresh set of teenagers and eventually making his way back into Crystal Lake somehow. But this one honestly feels like anything but a Friday the 13th film. This movie feels like it can stand on its own completely and just be a separate movie. It just had a feeling that didn't sit right for a Friday the 13th film.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Yeah, that's interesting because I think the biggest thing I felt the whole way through this was these people have some damn nerve to do what they did here. Listen, first off, and Mac, I mean this with disrespect, but I don't mean this with disrespect to you. The first character we see in this movie is a Mets fan. It's a hard pass for me. Listen, choices were made. Wow. Some better than others, and it really makes for a very disjointed experience. There's a lot in here that I was really shocked by because I was like, oh, this is actually kind of fun in these small pockets of time. And I remember this movie really for its ending. I have always watched it waiting for it to be over, but it's been equal parts because of this sheer desire for it to just be over already. And then the eagerness, and I mean this very honestly, very earnestly. The eagerness to see its final moment. Again, we're not gonna spoil that until we get to the second half of this episode. But listen, this time around, it was more for the final moment and less because I was bored out of my mind. I again I managed to find a couple in things in here to be like, okay, all right, I can find a little a few things to respect.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Oh, respect. That's nice of you. I think while watching this movie, I mostly felt that same feeling when you watch a show that you've been like ought into for seasons upon seasons, right? And they realize they're losing viewership and they have to do something different to shake things up, and they completely change the story going forward in the rest of the show. That's what I felt like watching this, where you're like, I have invested how many years into this? Yeah, and you're just gonna jump the shark, right? And it's angering. And at the same time, I'm like not really compelled to give it the fullest of my attentions. Did I? Of course I did. But I felt like this is one you could watch at two times speed, or this is one where you could do laundry, or this is one where you just put it on in the background because it doesn't deserve your attention.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah, I think part of it is that you just feel I don't know if confusion is the right word while watching this one, but honestly, I had this overwhelming question just pulsating in my mind of like, was this movie really being serious? Was this really what they were going for? Were they trying to be over the top? Did they think that this was like something that they were reinventing and it was just gonna be super fucking cool? But somehow it was kind of entertaining. It was entertaining to watch, it just didn't feel like a Friday the 13th film. And I feel like some of the lore and the plot just got absolutely ridiculous. The sound, I think, was one of the most surprising things for me, or maybe the biggest disappointment, because I feel like the sound in this movie felt so low. The audio, like the dialogue when there's not much happening, felt like I needed to have my sound bar all the way up to hear what the fuck these people were saying. And then as soon as something started to go down, I felt like my soundbar was about to blow through the frickin' house. So I had to constantly keep turning this movie up and turning this movie down. But the plot I think is probably the most surprising thing because the plot is just absolutely absurd. That shit really came out of left field.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

It really did, but listen, I was completely surprised by how, in retrospect, I never took the time to appreciate that this is in some ways, dare I say many ways, the curse of Michael Myers of the Friday the 13th franchise.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yep, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah. It's and even in more ways than one. Obviously, there's a lot of stuff in here that is very surface level. There's a lot of like superficial, easy to paint things, easy to point things, but there's even more in there behind the scenes that really lend itself to the Halloween six treatment.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Including a fan of the franchise being put at the helm to make all these decisions. I think it worked out better in The Curse of Michael Myers. I'll just say that. But let me tell you, I was also surprised by how much funnier this movie was than I remember it being. I would say not entirely in an unintentional way, because there's a comedic duo in this movie, and one half of that duo is Leslie Jordan. Are you fucking kidding me? How did I go this long in my life without making the connection and realizing that that is Leslie Jordan? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I think I'm gonna go back to what Sean said here about this disappointment because post our reviews, when we actually get into the spoiler zone, I want to make my case for what they did to this to the story. Okay. What they did to it in terms of their ideas, but not in terms of doing it in this film. But because of what they did, you know, I was disappointed that Jason didn't really spend a lot of time in hell. I thought that was gonna be the whole movie. I thought it was, again, I thought it was gonna be like Spawn or something like that, or Constantine, you know. I was disappointed as well that we didn't get Kane Hodder suited up as Jason, like for as much of time as we should have.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Mac, did you not learn your lesson from Jason taking Manhattan? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Gosh, I want to, when we get into the spoiler zone, I want to tell you how I think they could use this movie, which you've described as being one of the weakest of the franchise, if they ever get their rights sorted out to make another reboot happen.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Okay. That'll be interesting to hear, and I can't wait to hear that for sure. I think there were also some like a handful of pretty solid Easter eggs in this movie, though. I can't wait to get into those too later. But there there are some great Easter eggs in this film.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

I can't wait to get into that with you two in particular.

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Oh, yeah, I know exactly which one you're talking about, too. Can I tell you, I was pleasantly surprised and you know, just kind of caught off guard by Stephen Culp's face on the screen. So he played Robert Campbell, and he's been in so much stuff since this movie, and has been in like really like high echelon films. And it was like, oh, cool, I know that dude's face. And then it was, why is he in this movie? Completely caught off guard because of the level of work that this dude has done since then.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Why was Leslie Jordan in this movie?

SPEAKER_00 13:49

You know. I just figured it was for fun.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Yeah. For funsies. Also, this guy that you're talking about, Mac, there are some moments where he looked at the camera and I was like, is that a young Bill Skarsgard? There's some kind of similarity there that I couldn't quite place. But also there are moments where his makeup, as it gets further into the movie, looks exactly like the fucking ghosts from Hellhouse LLC.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Oh, yeah. Lake of fire. Lake of fire.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

His makeup looks just like that. And listen, the fact that it looks like that is exactly what lends itself to this movie not being scary in the slightest, but just being gimmicky. And sometimes it's gross.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

But mostly it's just gimmicky.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah. That's what I was gonna say, gross, because I feel like this film is gross and gory before it's scary. And sure, sure, there's a few classic jump scares that may get some people sprinkled into this movie. I I think there probably are some creepy scenes, really cool shots. There's some cool shots of gore, but overall, yeah, not the most frightening film. Definitely gross.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Gotta agree. There's gross moments, there's some violent moments sprinkled in throughout, but there's never really the sense of tension that I would get from a proper horror film. I think we covered In a Violent Nature, and I really said it was probably the best Friday the 13th film that I've seen, right? I don't know if if I said that verbatim, but I should have, because that shows you, I think, what's possible with this kind of genre of film and horror. This one is like, let's give you some, you know, horror-adjacent things, but never really any good scares. I think the scariest part of this was when I first started the movie, and there was a loud bang in the first scene, and the volume was up to maybe like 70% in my headphones. And I didn't realize, like Sean said, that the sound design here was basically 100% only for theaters. And so kow, a bang hits you, and then of course chills out and gets quiet after that. That was the scariest moment of the movie for me.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah. They were working overtime trying to get you in that first scene, but a lot of this and a lot of this movie's lack of fear is because of the concept of how Jason is approached in this movie, and that's unique to the franchise. Earlier at the top of the episode, I said they got some damn nerve. And they try new things. And let's give them credit for that and that alone. But the problem is that even when it's new and they try to do things that go back to the origin here, it doesn't feel true to the roots of the franchise. And then you couple that with a few over-the-top gunfights, and it ends up coming off as more bizarre than inventive.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Absolutely. I I feel like you kind of have to give Adam Marcus in this film some points for trying something new, I suppose. I feel like they were definitely bold in that way. Definitely does not feel like what we are used to in any other Friday the 13th film. Did we need the wheel reinvented in this franchise? We'll find out in just a bit when we get to our ratings, I'm sure. But you do have to acknowledge that they did separate themselves from the rest of the franchise. So for that, you know, you gotta give them something.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

That's one way to think about it. They definitely separated themselves. But in terms of originality, there's one other major horror franchise that came that came to mind while watching this. And it's only in like one type of aspect, but this big thing they've done with the story in this movie, it's not new. It's just new to this franchise, which I don't know was necessarily like a good idea. You know, we tried something new last time where we use a title like Jason Takes Manhattan and we spend four and a half seconds in Manhattan. That's new, that's inventive. Let's go back to the roots. I really thought this many movies in, that's what we were gonna get, is good old Stalker Jason, killing some teens, just with a hellish twist. And I think the choices they made here to me didn't really feel that new because I could just pick out other films that they came from.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

I think that really shows that maybe Adam Marcus could have done something different with this movie had he been holding and sitting on this idea for longer. Because I think this is the point where the youth and the inexperience really comes to play. But let me say this the ending of this movie, I have two things I want to say about it. One, you just gotta ignite the light and let it shine. Just own the night, like the 4th of July. Because baby, you're a firework. That is exactly what's playing all through my head through the climax of this movie. And honestly, even in moments earlier in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

But then two, the ending is the best part of this movie. Hands down. Not necessarily the conflict and the way up to the ending.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah, no, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Do I mean the last second? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Yeah, I obviously mean the last second of this fucking movie. And again, not I don't say that bitterly or or in a petty way. The last second of this movie fucking rocks. And the question is, is it worth the wait?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

That is a great question because that moment felt like a big high five, honestly. When we got all the way through the movie to that very last thing, it was like when people are watching Marvel movies and one of their heroes shows up that they haven't seen on screen yet, and they're like, Oh, that's the guy I like, right? Yeah, that's kind of that feeling you get where you're like, oh, I'm a fan, and they just did something cool that fans are going to appreciate. So yeah, that was like a good congratulations. And right before that, I think we had good action, we had good pacing, it was interesting. There was actual like threat to lives and stuff, and it really was the most satisfying part of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Yeah. Is it worth the wait? I don't know. I do think that it was ultimate fan service that I think they were hoping would lead to something that we probably know that we get at some point down the line. But I was just about to say, is the ending the best part about this movie? And I think it's a roller coaster because to your point, Chris, there's parts that aren't that great, and then there's the very end. But to me, it even starts as the third act starts to progress. And I think it starts out like in this third act that we start to pick up to your point, Mac. The pacing starts to pick up. There's some action that's starting to go down here. I'm a little bit more invested in what's happening. And then you get this little something that comes out bringing this film right back into what I feel like one big fucking joke that kind of took me down a couple of notches, and then we get another little tidbit that we're all alluding to with the special guest cameo at the very end, where I feel like it brings me back up. So it was kind of like a roller coaster ride of this third act leading to the end, but also when you compare it to the rest of the film, is it the best part of the movie? I mean, it it might be.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Well, I can't wait to see how heavily it influences our ratings of this movie. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 21:05

You know, this movie was very hot and cold. There's some good stuff, there's some bad stuff. The gore, it's very hot and cold. There's just some kills in here that didn't give us much at all. But then we had some really cool stuff sprinkled in there as well. And the more you think about it, the more you realize that this movie is filled with blood squirting, face frying, body melting, tongue-punching gore that at the very least probably earns itself another one of those medium to medium high gore score, just based on what we get to see on screen for the time, but probably more in the medium.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Well, I guess I get to be a a bit of a dark horse here, since I'm not making all these Katy Perry references like you guys are. Except I did. The animal report here is pretty clean. There's a dog, but uh, you know, we're all good. We're all good in the hood.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Jason goes to hell. The final Friday from 1993. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

You know, this movie was just bad. Previously, Jason took a boat ride instead of taking Manhattan. And now Jason went through yet another unnecessary, supernatural reinvention instead of just going to hell like the title promised. I get it. You know, be the Jason Voorhees you want to see in the world and all that. But I really would have preferred a more classic Friday the 13th kind of flick. Take us back to the camp. Let him stalk silently and kill brutally. Just keep it simple. This increasing complication really makes you wonder like what was going on in horror films and filmmaking back in the early 90s. The effects were effective and gross when they were actually used. The kills were just okay. The writing was well, the writing was there. I just didn't have a good time watching this and didn't even get the Jason I was here for. Thus, it's a hack.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

I think we want to follow up here and Sean can round us out. Because Mac, I did have a good time. And I admit it, I felt better about this movie this time around. On the asser on the surface, I admire it for having some nerve. And you know, the ability to dream about a future for the Friday the 13th franchise. I should be really clear though, that I had a fun time because I'm not someone who loves this franchise the way loyal diehard Jason Vans do. I just don't. This movie is roughly an hour and a half of receipts revealing the poor decisions that were made with its execution. I was able to have fun with it 100%. But even at its best, this movie is still chaotic. It's still messy. It still lacks both the personality and the soul of Friday the 13th. Hence its absence from the title. For all of Manhattan's flaws, and I know yes, we joke like Jason takes a boat and then spends a few minutes there. That movie was more fun than this. This movie set out to take Jason to hell, but he took the franchise with him on the way. And it's better than I thought, for sure, it's better than I remember, but it's still a chore to get through, and it's a hack. Whoo, am I glad we get three more movies after this?

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Well, we'll see if those movies redeem themselves. But yeah, I think it's interesting because this movie gets a lot of hate, but it also at the same time has sort of a cult following. But we all know what happens with cults. They start off cool and then they usually implode at the end and everything goes to shit. Much like this movie, only this movie doesn't even start off cool. The story, I feel like, and the plot is just too ridiculous in this one. I feel like there was, I don't know, just too much going on here, too many characters, too many subplots. The acting is bad, not in a fun way. It's just bad. We had a ton of kills, which we want in a Friday the 13th film, but to me, only a handful of them were really notable. And there are a lot of really great qualities, right? There were some really cool practical effects used in this movie. There were some really fun Easter eggs, but the movie didn't feel cohesive. And with all of these plot holes, it just didn't make a whole lot of sense. So Jason can go to hell, but take me back to Camp Crystal Lake because this really isn't it. This one is a hack.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Well, with that, Jason goes to hell. The final Friday from 1993 has heard a resounding universal hack. But there's a lot more to discuss when we return from our break. If you've already seen this before, please chime in, let us know. You follow the link in our show notes to our Discord server in the conversation there. And if you haven't seen it, don't worry, we got you. You can find a link to where you can watch it right now. And when we get back from our break in just a moment, we're gonna dive deep into the spoiler zone territory. So we're gonna unpack that ending, we're gonna learn more about this movie's terrible production, and we're also gonna hear how Mac would adapt this material for a reboot. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

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SPEAKER_03 27:32

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for Jason Goes to Hell, the final Friday from 1993, which has earned an unquestionable, unshakeable universal hack.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

This movie is full of disappointments, but not with the kill count, because this one delivers the goods with 30 total deaths, 33 if you're counting the deleted scenes, and they might not all be as gory as we wanted, but this one is full of both brutal and hilariously campy kills. So when you have everything from possessions, stabbings, and head smashing, I gotta know what was your favorite kill.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

I gotta give one up to some originality, honestly. I think the face smash just by like a punch.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Ah, you son of a gun.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

So good. Ryan, interesting kill. It reminded me a lot of Preacher, one of the characters in Preacher, but yeah, just like the visual, the effect that they did. It was such a crazy visual. That's all they had to show was this person's face completely just and it wasn't even completely, honestly. It was just like a just caved in enough to where it was like, oh, they can't breathe after that.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yeah. Listen, Joey B talking all that shit this entire fucking movie to only then just get checked.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

One hit wonder.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

And her just mmm, jaw just crunched in, you can see the teeth coming out. Woo.

SPEAKER_02 29:09

It looked like something that you would see in like a cartoon or like something like a Looney Tunes type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Yeah, it was giving Beetlejuice.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Or that, yeah. You just get punched so hard that your face kind of like implodes, and then you just sh shake it out and you're back to normal. You know, that's what I was expecting with that kill.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

It was definitely cartoony. It reminded me a bit of the excess of Punisher Warzone when we get the complete face cave in with a single punch. That was ridiculous. This was it was more cartoony, you know, just kind of pursed some lips and stuck some teeth out, and that was a bit fun. I think a lot of the other kills here were just like so generic though, that that one really stuck out.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Yeah, that one really did. That was my favorite for sure. The only other one that really stood out significantly was because of how excessive it was. So the studio obviously felt like there wasn't enough blood or sex in this movie, so the hitchhikers having sex was added. Interestingly enough, they were actually a couple who had broken up before filming, so that was very uncomfortable for them to have to fucking sit there and do this together. But he stabs her, blood sprays all over this man's face, and then he walks off after killing both. But what's weird was the way they show the explosion of her blood. It was perfectly timed because she looked like she was having a great time engaged in that activity with him, and the blood spray feels like it's supposed to be some sort of substitute for a climax.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Okay, that's an interesting theory for sure. I mean, I didn't actually catch on to that, but the more you think about it, the more it makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

It just felt so dramatic and excessive. Yeah. They weren't at it very long, but she seemed to be very much enjoying herself.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

And that's why it's like how explosive that kill was. Granted, yes, they want more sex, they want more blood. It's like, okay, you're not gonna get that far into that and then that not be intentional.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah. And how often are you getting these producers or whatever saying, we need more sex and more blood, you know? Most of the time you're trying to cut it back so you can actually get a rating that puts it in a viewable theater, you know what I mean? So that's interesting for sure. But this movie was full of ridiculous kills, you know what I mean? Like Vicky getting her head squeezed and popped like a fucking cherry tomato with the blood gushing out of her skull was absolutely absurd. And there's just a lot of that, you know. Like, I I think of Diana getting impaled by the it what looked like a knife sharpener, like the little just the thing that you pull out of a knife set on your counter, and it's just the little like cylinder stick that you sharpen your knives on, and it was thrown with such perfect force that it just impaled her from behind.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Okay, I gotta say it though. She should have survived that. It didn't look that serious. It felt like she could have been clinging to life.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Probably.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Low vitals for sure. Probably gone if help isn't there soon, but it feels like she should have still been alive at that point.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

There's a lot of people that probably should still be alive, including the person that just got shoved into the locker.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

You know what I mean? The fact that there was blood squirting from off the side of the screen there, and that was a death was absolutely hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Yeah, at most it should be somebody going, What the hell, man? And you know, they have a headache.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Right, right. But I gotta say, Pookie has gotta be up there because to get the deep fry facial, you know, just seems pretty gnarly. Um, that's just gotta hurt so bad. I mean, just imagine being just one, your face is being burned. Two, you're also being drowned in hot oil while your face is being burned and melted off. Like that's a double whammy, and it sounds terrible, actually.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Listen, for as great as Pookie's Kill was, I think one of my favorite things about this movie and the way it was made was absolutely not that fucking cinematography in that diner. We know about what dailies are, yes? So dailies are supposed to be reviewed to make sure you have all the shit you need that it's usable. The only person who was watching dailies was the editor. And so this fucking guy, being a first-time director, what does he do? Shoots that whole fucking diner scene in slow-mo.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

I see right.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Mm-hmm. Unusable. They had to go back and try to patch things together as they could, but there was so much weird shit in that diner scene that honestly a lot of this movie is just patchwork together. The compliment that I will give it though, I love the reverse vampire of it all, and I love being able to see Jason in the reflection.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

That is cool.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

That I'm real fucking into that.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

I did like that. You know, if we're gonna use this dynamic, the idea that we get to see him at least once every now and then, it's a smart way to do it. And the fact that characters can kind of recognize that they're not him when they're doing bad stuff. I like that as well. It's a good way to use a mirror.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

I think my my favorite thing to look at though goes back to what we said earlier, the best part of the movie, the end, the actual effects we get of Jason finally being dragged down to hell, that was fun. That was giving me early 90s horror that I enjoyed.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

Oh, did you love the sparks flying off of him?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Even better.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Because baby he's a fireworks.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Give me all the sparkles. Oh man. It is okay. So there are some really good practical effects in this movie. I think if they just kind of stayed there a little bit longer and gave us just more of that, invested a little bit more in those effects, I think this would have been much better because we got some really good practical effects, but I wish there was more of it. With the amount of kills that we got, I feel like we should have gotten more of those like awesome effects of the melty gooeiness. And I'm sure I'm channeling my inner Vera right now because I know that she would have loved all the melty gooey goodness in some of these practical effects. I'm sure that would have probably been her favorite part, her favorite scene, favorite kill. I I'm just gonna put my money on it.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Might have made the movie a slash for her just for being gooey.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Probably does, actually. Probably does now that I think about it. But yeah, it's the effects. Also, let's just talk about I mean it's not like an insane amount, but let's talk about these Easter eggs. Because Chris, I know you want to get into it, but I know the one you're referencing. We're talking about it. It's the Book of the Dead from Evil Dead. It makes a very apparent appearance in here, and I gotta say, I actually kind of forgot that that was in this movie until I rewatched this for the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Yeah, that and the Kandarian dagger. What the fuck, guys?

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Come on, it's there. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

This is why Freddie vs versus Ash versus Jason is a comic. It almost became a movie.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

That would have been a little bit wild to think about of an a movie. With I wonder if that was gonna be alongside Freddie versus Jason, or maybe was that would would that just be in replacement of Freddie versus Jason? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

You have to read the comic to find out.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

I've never read the comic, truth be told.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

The comic that I started reading, it was basically the survivors of Freddie versus Jason go to a cabin.

SPEAKER_04 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Ash is also at that cabin. He sees them get killed.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

So they die immediately. And then he encounters Jason Voorhees.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

So listen, it's entertaining. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

It is.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Does it make you like Jason Voorhees more for him to be a deade?

SPEAKER_00 36:55

I don't know. It's interesting and I think revealing, and also it all makes sense that the director like had this idea that he's a deadite. Yeah. You know, I think watching it, you're like, oh, I can really see that influence.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

But here's the thing. I haven't read the comic, but obviously I know that this is a thing in the movie. There's definitely some conversation that has sparked amongst fans around this whole thing. And maybe reading the comic makes sense. I don't know. But there is that theory that Jason is a Deadite, but to me, I think that's complete bullshit. Because whether they can be maybe interweaved together in some kind of universe, he does not exhibit anything that a Deade would exhibit. Like he doesn't. These Deadeites come back and they're like vulgar assholes that are constantly just nagging you, and that's not what Jason is. So I don't know that I would say that Jason like Jason does come back and kill people, but he's not exhibiting the same type of behaviors that you would get from a Deadite, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Was Jason Voorhees not nonverbal?

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

If someone is non-verbal pre-deadite, do they come back verbal?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Maybe. That's a good point. It's possible.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

This is a good time to play the movie title mismatch game and tell you why that this whole idea in this movie could be really useful in a reboot of the franchise because look, there's a lot of movies. We don't need all the titles. I think we start out with Friday the 13th. The next movie, we immediately jump to something with a title on it. Now, the first movie, I think, again, should not be Jason as the killer, because we have all this lore that could be really useful. It's gotta start out, or at least by the end of the movie, get to his mom or his sister or whoever bringing him back to life. I think that's gotta happen because this is like a really useful idea that he is able to jump bodies and it explains so much. Of course, it's a cheap explanation because you just tacked it on to the end. But if you start out with it, everything works out. You can start out with a supernatural killer that can come back to life and change bodies.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah, if you start out with that, for sure, but at this point, for me, it's not that it's a bad concept. I've been so accustomed to what we have been seeing, and what I've been seeing is some version of Jason almost getting more decrepit and more mutilated the more he comes back, gets killed, gets resurrected, gets killed again, finds his way back. You know what I mean? And he becomes more and more grotesque. And I think that for the first time not getting something like that, after obviously the first one or what have you, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

So here's what I like though about what they did in this movie. Not him possessing another body, right? Super boring. I don't want to see it, we're not here for that. But the idea that he could use another body as like fuel to come back.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

That I'm here for. It doesn't need to be a descendant or another relative or something like that, but the way he uses the bodies, the people in this movie, I would like it if he's able to come back like that, kind of like Hellraiser, right? Where he uses this tissue for another thing. So I think make the Friday the 13th, reveal that there's this crazy history by the very end of the movie, perhaps. Then the next thing should be the idea that Jason goes to hell, and just like in other literature, I think the next movie should be Jason Lives. Okay. Just mismatching some titles. Okay. So he's got to we've got to realize that he's dead.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Right in the first one, but he's brought back to life, and then his mom is killed, or whatever it's gonna happen. Then he's gotta die. He's gotta go down to hell, he's gotta come back, he's gotta live. After he lives, though, he's gotta use this new ability to take us over this tissue, and we need the new blood after that, right? Okay. After the new blood, then he can take Manhattan because he's on the move and he's jumping, using body and body to come back again and again. Then we can get into the final chapter or the final Friday. We don't have to reuse all of the names.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Or, hear me out, the final chapter is a part one and two split.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Ooh, yep. Gotcha. These are just titles. I'm I think they could reuse a lot of material. Jason in space, you know, Jason X, but just make it modern day space, right? Just make it maybe maybe one of the people who is uh an astronaut went to one of these camps, and now he's following them by returning from hell and causing havoc aboard a space station. I'm just saying there's ways to use all of this. If you plan out a 10-movie arc from the start, yeah, then you can make use of all this crazy stuff, but when you tack it on the end, yeah, you know, it's obvious.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

This idea is great. I actually really like where you're going with that. And I think, yeah, that's the problem. If we don't go into making these films in bunches, you know, if you don't go in knowing you're gonna be telling this story, that's I think uh the flaw is that we make a movie and then we're like, oh, let's make another one, but how do we keep it going? And then they're like, Yeah, let's make another one, and how do we keep it going? And then it becomes like eight different people have made another one and how they want to keep it going, and it just gets a little bit weird after a while.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Yeah, it really needs to it really needs to be tightened up because even when we think about the latest Star Wars editions, right? The sequel trilogy, we had initially a plan of how many movies are gonna be made, but then they start passing off between directors and changing the lore and remaking and reconning decisions that were already made. You have even the latest Halloween trilogy. We know that's going to be a trilogy, and yet somehow it still feels like we ended up with a wildly different product than we should have, given the fact that they had an idea of where they wanted to go in the beginning. Exorcist Believer, Exorcist Deceiver. Dave Gordygreen got one movie in and got replaced.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

Yeah, it's tough for sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

It is tough, but there's more Easter eggs to talk about, and I think that there is a really cool one. There's the crate. We have to talk about the crate in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Because it's special, it's a direct reference to creep show for sure. But it doesn't just show Horlicks University on it, it also shows or says Arctic Expedition with what I think Julia Carpenter on it, but now making this crate serve as a double Easter egg referencing the thing.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Very cool.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

I absolutely love that. He finds Diana's body down there. You see this crate. Yes, it's from Creep Show, but we see Jason taking so many different forms in this movie, just like Like the thing assimilates people in the thing.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

And you know what? Hey, why not? You already ripped off John Carpenter once.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Why not?

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Why not really get back to your roots literally and figuratively?

SPEAKER_02 44:15

It's so true. It's so true. But still a cool one.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

You know, we have this movie obviously pre-dating Halloween, the curse of Michael Myers. You have Jason Voorhees hunting down his bloodline, which is new and had already been done in Halloween up until that point. Yes. Michael Myers has been a fiend for a bloodline.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

But specifically chasing down a baby. Okay. Alright. I can fuck with that.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

I don't know. I just don't know about any of this extra lore.

SPEAKER_03 44:44

I just don't I'm not saying it was good lore.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

I know it's not. Yeah. I guess that's what I'm saying. Like if this was just a standalone film that had nothing to do with Friday the 13th or Jason Voorhees as a whole, and it was just somebody else, it probably would have worked out a lot better. But we're going n this is the ninth film in the franchise, and all of a fucking sudden we're talking about the bloodline, and there's the last two fucking people on earth that can take this down, even though we know motherfuckers have killed this guy. Come on, stop fucking with me.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

All of a sudden he's got a sister.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

Stop fucking with me right now. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Somehow Palpatine survived or returned or whatever they said. Goodness. See, again, if you started out with this plan in place, by the time you get to movie number eight or nine, if you were to see the dagger that his mother used to perform a ritual to bring him back as a fan, you'd be like, Oh my god, they're doing it. This is awesome. But there was no planning, it was completely tacked on. What just you can't do that this late in the game. Just give us classic stalker kills. Come on. Yeah, definitely. But if you reboot, use all these good ideas that you had and make it a really rich kind of situation.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Yeah, reboot it and make it better.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Yeah. What we don't know is that the fucking Crystal Lake prequel is gonna be a young ash with a Kendarian dagger going to summer camp.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Oh god. Oh man. I hope not. No, I hope not. And then we have obviously everyone's favorite Easter egg, which is Freddie. You know what I mean? At the very end. And that's what we've been talking about. We talked about it in the beginning of this episode, and we're gonna talk about it now. But yeah, Freddie's hand just coming up and dragging this motherfucker to hell, or you know, the very last remnants of him or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

But yeah, and shout out to Kane Hawthorne for now playing both Freddy Krueger and Jason Voorhees, not just playing them both, but to do them both in one movie.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Still not the worst version of Freddy Krueger that's not really.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Not true. Not the worst.

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Well, I loved it because they teased this idea that had been a concept. And obviously it takes years to get down to where we actually get Freddie versus Jason. But there's a really fascinating book that actually explores the making of Freddie versus Jason and dives into that lore, so I'm gonna add a link in the show notes. It's actually called The Slash of the Titans. It's called Slash of the Titans: The Road to Freddy versus Jason.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Hmm. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

But listen, that few seconds makes the whole damn thing worth it. 1000%.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

Is it not like the one thing that you remember most about this film?

SPEAKER_03 47:31

It absolutely fucking is. Actually, two things I remember most. One, Freddie Krueger.

SPEAKER_04 47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

Then on next on the list is a dark, long, cavernous hole. Then, not literally, but I mean like far down the list is the second runner-up, which is the coroner eating the heart.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

Yeah. Because also, what a fucking moment. That whole scene was just wild.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

It was wild.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Yeah. My favorite scene is a cold open of this movie, and I'll get there in a second. But that scene, this man has the most interesting setup for an audio recording for an autopsy. It makes me wonder, is this how it was done?

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

But the fact that he's just over here making little fucking jokes to himself, being completely unprofessional, then asking telling himself to strike it from the record, ridiculous. But I remember specifically seeing him poking and prodding at the heart, and Jason's heart due to edema is twice the size it should be normally. So this motherfucker went full grinch.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

Full-on grinch.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

This motherfucker stole Christmas. The Who's down in Whooville showed Jason some love. And that's why this corner ends up dying. Had it been a normal heart, probably wouldn't have happened.

SPEAKER_02 48:47

Wouldn't have been as appetizing.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

Yeah, but the chomping, the immediate biting, and just oh that man has such a physical performance.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

It was good.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

And this was solid. Like this was rock solid acting in this movie, all this comparatively.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

The best acting in the whole movie. If we're actually being real, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

100%. But it made me gag. It's either that or we get, again, Freddie Krueger adjacent, we get someone's fucking tongue coming out of their mouth and trying to go into somebody else. Wild. But those are the things that really just grossed me the fuck out in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

I mean, the tongue scenes were just absolutely ridiculous. I think the first tongue scene is so ridiculous. No matter how creepy and wrong it is to see this tongue just like protruding out of this fucking possessed dude's mouth and trying to violate you in some way to like now what? Jump bodies to this person or what the fuck is happening? It just feels so silly. But then I don't know, that first scene where I think what Steven causes the dude to kill Diana before killing him, but then like right as the other cop or whoever it was shows up, Josh is gone, and it looks like it was him the whole time. That was just a great moment, a great thing that happened. But yeah, the tongue scenes are just gnarly in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Yeah, very Michael Myers that Josh was.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

That was a very Michael Myers thing. And there's like another reference later on where she's like, Oh, up past the Myers house. Whoever that you know what I mean? Like, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_03 50:26

Once again, they knew exactly what they were doing.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Yeah. I only wish they'd had more Easter eggs, maybe to their own fucking franchise.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

They have eight films to go off of.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

They had so much. It was really some fucking nerve for them to be like, fuck everything else. Let's just go back to the first two. This motherfucker has a hockey mask. The hockey mask shows up in part three. What are we doing here? But also, one of the things that I enjoy most about this franchise is that it's very picks up right where you left off. So to just suddenly break that, it's not like this is Halloween where it's like years have passed, somebody's dead, maybe they faked their death, let's retcon the whole thing. This, for as wild and wacky as this franchise is, it's pretty continuous, it's pretty consistent in its absurdity. So to go back and erase that, and then you give us this? This is what you want to do? These the moves that you make? Kandarian dagger? Necronomicon? What the fuck are you doing, bro?

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Yeah, what's the point? But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

Yeah, but listen, that cold open when we get to Camp Crystal Lake and we have an FBI agent and it's a whole sting operation, just setting the trap. Love that shit. That's the closest we get to the spirit of Friday the 13th.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

It was so utterly unexpected, which is why I also enjoyed it. It was definitely my favorite scene. It's ridiculous. The very concept that there would be this FBI task force to hunt down Jason. I know that it's supposedly been a while since we last saw him, but it just makes no sense where he is and the fact that they're springing a trap for him, like they know exactly where he's gonna be. It's a literature. I don't know where he's gonna be. It's Jason. Come on. That whole concept itself is ridiculous, but the violence they had to use, and then what did they hit him with? A grenade or something? I don't know. It didn't even look like anything real. They just had it ready to go. That was their plan this whole time. Let's blow this dude up. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

They also did that shit in Halloween 4. And then this man washed down a fucking creek and some guy nursed him to back to health for a year and then got murdered. It doesn't work with these guys, doesn't fucking work with these guys. But I do remember the first time I ever saw this movie, I remember thinking that they were making a Friday the 13th movie.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

Because those lights come on and it's giving movie set, it's not giving sting.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah, that's what I thought. That's what I thought when I first watched it too. A hundred percent. It's absurd that this girl's towel stays intact the whole time. There's no way.

SPEAKER_03 53:04

Bro, it's a tactical towel.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

There's no yeah, okay. Yeah, I love that. Tactical towel. Let me get a tactical towel because there ain't no way any towel's staying on you when you do fucking cartwheels and frickin' body rolls and running and falling all over the place. Before we got to the um VI like sting operation of it all, it is a great scene nonetheless. I would say actually, my favorite scene in this movie doesn't belong in this movie, doesn't make sense in this movie, but it's so fucking stupid that you have to admire it in some capacity. And it's this whole scene in the jail cells with Creighton Duke, and he and it's the whole, are you ready to pay? Like, what do you mean, man? Why am I paying by you breaking my fingers to tell me bits and pieces of this story? It's fucked up, man, and it's over the top, and it's absolutely ridiculous. And no, man, I don't actually want this information if that's how bad it's gonna be. I'll just sit in this jail cell and you guys can fucking figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Also, what the fuck was up with him in this interview? American Cold Case fucking interview.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

American Cold Case.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

He says, What's the first thing that comes to mind when I say Jason Voorhees? And he says, a little girl in a pink dress sticking a hot dog through a donut. What the fuck are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Yeah, what? Excuse me?

SPEAKER_03 54:24

It's I don't understand what you're talking about, but also it sounds problematic and disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Yeah, let's keep that to ourselves there, buddy. We don't we don't want to hear any of that.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

I think you need to unpack that with somebody for sure that that's the first thing that comes to mind. Yeah, get this guy admitted, man. Creighton Duke is such a weird character, such a strange choice, and it works in this movie because it is pretty campy. If you were gonna reuse that character, oh, you gotta go over the top with camp because they should they had room to grow here. They truly did. The finger breaking scene was merely for his own entertainment. You know, it's not even like Major Pain. Major Pain was like, I'm gonna teach you something with this, right? This is why it makes no sense. Caiton Duke was just having a good time by breaking some dude's fingers. That's like, why'd you do that to me? It's because you let me to quote another movie we watched this year. But yeah, I think that was ridiculous. Every other scene where he's like, I know how to kill him, but nobody else does. And it was like, okay, that's yeah, man. Come on, dude, spit it out. Let's fucking get this ball rolling here. It's you obviously don't care that much because I think at one point he wanted money, right? And then it's I gotta break some fingers for fun. I'll take entertainment at this point. So he obviously didn't care that much about killing Jason. He really didn't because he kept holding it back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

No, so true. And he just was full of just weird shenanigans. There's the scene towards the end where he throws the dagger to Jessica. And one, let's just unpack this because one, he just threw a fucking dagger her way with a baby, a fucking baby in her arms. So let's not even mention the fact that this baby is the only hope that this fucking idiot has if she dies and he's just throwing daggers willy-nilly at the both of them. That would not end well if somebody got injured. And two, how did she fucking catch that shit so perfectly? Alright?

SPEAKER_03 56:22

Okay, again, it's like Ray getting the fucking lightsaber in the Force Awakens, just comes straight to her.

SPEAKER_04 56:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

I cannot explain the absurdities that is that entire moment in this entire scene. On a more practical level, within that same scene, I want to it's a little bit later on. She has dropped the dagger, it is beneath some sort of furniture, she has the baby, Steven's right next to her, and this man is telling her to just grab the dagger. Bro, either grab the fucking dagger yourself, move that fucking furniture, or take the baby, because she can't get any lower and reach the damn fucking dagger. It was just oh my god, it was so infuriating. And I'm not like obviously seriously angry about this, but it's like this scene is paced and this moment is paced so strangely that they really linger there on him just telling her to grab a fucking dagger, and it's like, do something about it, Steven. Not up or shut up.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

That was a moment of comedy though, because the dagger was within reach. I mean, it was comical watching that whole debacle of like, I can't reach it, it's too far away. I can't get it.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

With the softest little attempts at reaching it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

I just don't like Steven. And I think that's probably my issue here. I think making the choice to follow him as the stand-in Tommy Jarvis is a big mistake. I don't find him likable, I don't find him endearing in any way. And really the fact that that scene concludes and this movie concludes with them having a kiss after Jason goes to hell. It's like, ah, yes, nothing like a trauma bond to rekindle a relationship that probably ended for a really fucking good reason.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

And I hate that. I hate that. It's like he has this whole I mean, not to pull the fucking Katy Perry again. He has this whole the one that got away energy about her the whole damn movie, and it's just like, move the fuck on. I know that you want to be present in your daughter's life, and that's fantastic, but also just you don't have to be romantically tied to her for that to be the case. There's probably a really fucking good reason why she doesn't want you around.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

So what the fuck is up with your shit?

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Yeah. The characters in this movie are just like from one end of the spectrum to the other, right? Like you're you're either like a super bland character and super boring, or you're just like absurd and completely idiotic. And you know, we're talking about some of these characters, but I also want to spend some time breaking down the dynamic of this fucking diner family, right? You know, like we're looking at Pookie, we're looking at Joey B, we're looking at Pookie, we're looking at Joey B, we're looking at Ward B or whatever. I'm assuming they're all related. I'm assuming maybe husband, wife, whatever, maybe I don't know what the dynamic of this family is, but what a strange group of people to be running this diner. And the fact that they're just like so over the top, like there's that one point where they're just like pulling out guns and they're like, oh, we're just gonna like what the fuck is happening here with these three people.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

Yo, it's Butch Cassidy in the fucking Sundance Diner. Something like that.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Absolutely absurd. Well, Friday the 13th does usually have moments like that. I feel like in every movie. I remember in an earlier one there was like banjo music playing when some guys showed up, and it was all like silly sounds, like sound effects. So they have a history of doing this, they just couldn't let go of that to make some more to make some more mature choices at this point. That being said, if they had done that, we wouldn't have gotten Leslie Jordan, Shelby. True. That was good entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

Love the characters, just absolutely absurd. Pookie, yeah, definitely great character, arguably one of the better kills that we get. Haves to be in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

Yeah, and I really just want to point out how enterprising they are. I love that Joey B says very early on people are gonna come to see Jason's hometown and they're gonna come with appetites. We have her rationing out the beef from the patty to make Jason's mask because they're not doing it right, and they get a whole other patty from it, and it's a two-for-one sale. Listen, she knows her economics. She's fucking wild, she's probably super lovable outside of a scary situation. Maybe she's someone that you love having in your life, but you don't want to have maybe many deep topic conversations with because you're probably not gonna see eye to eye. But I respect her business sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Yeah. This is one of those cases where I think we honestly could have dealt with more of this couple. We could have had a little more screen time given to them and and not to the fake Jasons. Maybe we could have had a closer bond with them and our protagonists, except this movie can't decide who its protagonist is.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Well, it's obviously Lori and Jamie and Steven. I mean Diana and Jessica and daughter.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:25

Okay, but is Steven one of the only characters to actually put up like an actual fight against Jason? I know we have these battle scenes and whatnot, but this really felt like a showdown. He was throwing blows with Jason.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

I have such a point about this. Not a good one, to be clear.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

But that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

I could not stand that Jason was really toying with his ass because he could easily crush his skull or dismember him at any moment, but instead he just chooses to fling him. He just yeets him around, just tosses him around.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

Yeah, we saw literal heads get squeezed and popped, but somehow Steven is like throwing blow for blow, shot for shot.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

Here's my conspiracy theory. Are you ready for this?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

Is it that they signed a contract that he wouldn't get paid unless they went all the way to the end?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

No, that's probably what actually happened. My if you squint your eyes just right, it's probably because Jason sees in Steven the same level of pathetic energy that he felt himself as a child and wanted to have a little bit of mercy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

I just don't like Steven.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

That is given some credit. He is a doofus, right? Like he did not give me main character energy whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

Okay. Obviously, it feels like both he and her are grown-ass adults. Why the fuck is he still wearing a varsity jacket?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Some people just can't let go. Yeah. You know, still wearing their high school varsity jacket, you know, their high school football championship ring.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

He just hasn't found the right shoe store to work at yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Then he would be married with children. There you know, we've mentioned one character a little bit so far, and that is Freddie Krueger. And that was the best part of this entire movie, Freddie's Claw and the laugh coming together to tell you something fun is going to happen because of this movie. And I know it wasn't the very next film, which is honestly strange considering the foreshadowing here, but that moment was like such redemption and such a feel-good as a fan after that mess we just watched.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

1000% best part of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

Definitely effects-wise, you know, you think of like those that one scene with the cop dude or whatever that was melting away and the jaw was stuck to the floor as he was like the body was moving away, pretty gnarly. So you gotta really enjoy some of those moments that probably make the best part of the movie, but also just the last 20 minutes or so, I think, are probably the best part of this movie because even though the end of this movie is just as ridiculous as the rest of the film, it gets ridiculous in maybe a more fun and campy way instead of just silly and just dumb. And I think the kills we get are awesome, you know, with Jason jumping bodies left and right and going on a complete fucking rampage. But then we get the scene of baby Jason crawling out of the hacked up neck of Randy. Alien. Alien, definitely. It was cool at first, it was cool at first, but then the baby Jason of it all just kind of squirming around the room just got to be a little bit too much, and then it wasn't so cool. But overall, the last little bit of the movie towards the end was probably one of the better parts of the film, might make it redeemable enough for potentially a rewatch, because and then maybe that's why I still find myself watching this movie every so often, because I do think that there are some cool practical effects, there's some fun Easter eggs in this movie, and there are some moments that you kind of reminis on from the end of this movie, and I find myself getting suckered into watching this one every so often, and maybe it's because I'm like, oh man, yeah, no, yeah, there was yeah, there was some good parts in this movie. Yeah, let's let's put this on again, and then you're like, fuck, man, why did I put this on again?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

You sound like every fucking friend I've had that I've had to discourage from returning to a toxic ex. This movie hurts you. It also hurts me, and I get it, because I'm also that friend. Listen, the problem is the Freddie tease draws you back with the promise of something that's much better that lies in the future. But the rest of the film is so uneven that it's tough to even justify a second viewing. Now, hi. Pot Tom Kettle and we're in this boat together because I revisit this film every year that there's a Fri every time there's a Friday the 13th, but I only revisit this movie out of a sense of duty and obligation. I do it out of a need to fulfill my completionism. I do it to satisfy my compulsory need to finish what I start, and I'll be damned if I have an incomplete experience because I don't like this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

I'm with you there, and I could skip this and Jason Takes Manhattan if I were doing a binge rewatch of the entire franchise. I would feel completely fine going from before these two films straight up to Jason X.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:41

Well, I can't wait to finally get to Jason X and Freddie versus Jason, but for now, there you have it, folks. Jason Goes to Hell, the final Friday from 1993, has earned a universal hack.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations so you can be a part of what we watch next, and of course, live shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

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SPEAKER_03 1:07:36

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember everyone has a price.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

What's your price?