368: It’s a Wonderful Knife (2023)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Alternate universes can't stop lesbian love, okay? Step off. Let us have this win. Seasons, greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Can we get some more of that caution tape? I feel like we need to be a little more cautious here. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_06 0:35

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super fly space guy Mac.

SPEAKER_06 0:51

We would never wear that.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_06 0:55

Everyone, cool your tits, we're here.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. I'm the best, so fuck the rest. The people have spoken, and our patrons have decided we're getting seasonal for this week's movie with a horror comedy inspired by one of the 100 best American films ever made.

SPEAKER_06 1:12

And if you're a patron, you'll also get to hear our B-side at the end of this episode where we discuss some of our favorite holiday movies.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

This week's film looks to capture the magic of a classic Christmas film while blending it with the slasher subgenre. The story, brought to you by the same writer as Freaky from 2020, follows a young woman who, after saving her town from a psychotic killer, finds herself wishing she'd never been born. But that wish pulls her into a nightmare parallel universe, where her absence reveals a darker reality for everyone she loves. This week, after winning 48% of the overall patron vote, we're talking about it's a wonderful knife.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

This movie was nominated by Nathan, who said, after seeing Cassandra Noah in 2022's influencer, I've been intrigued to check out more of her work. Additionally, as a card-carrying member of Team Thinks, I have to represent and pick a Justin Long movie when I can. This feels like an ideal nomination for the holiday season.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Well, we'll see how far that Team Binks card gets you, Nathan. But for now, who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_06 2:16

Man, I heard about this one when it came out last year, I think, but I hadn't seen it until it came in the lineup for the pod. And my wife actually watched this one without me, oddly enough, this year. I thought that was crazy. I don't know if I should be proud or upset that that she watched that without me, but I guess I'll err on the side of Proud.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

I think Proud is good. I am proud that you guys watched this before just hearing about it for the podcast, because I didn't hear about this movie at all. For whatever reason, was not aware of it in any way until it was on the list.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Interesting. I remember it being promoted, I think, last month because of Justin Long. I think he had been in a couple films at that point, especially with that movie that we shall not name, because I don't want to get hate right now. Um Barbarian. But anyways. No. Although I could have. You're right.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Jeepish Creepers? I'm a Mac. I'm a PC. What else he got? He's just not that into you?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Nice. Shall I go on? Nice. No, okay. No. Okay. But I mean, all right. So obviously I watched it because it had him in it. You know, I had to. I watched it. I couldn't resist. I was curious though, because I didn't really remember whether it was like a shutter exclusive at that point or anything. You know, I just felt like it was something that I needed to watch. Not a lot of people were talking about it online just yet. So I was like, well, if it's got Justin Long, I mean I'm surprised it doesn't have like a bigger marketing to it. But he does a range of things, right? He does indie projects, he does bigger films, so I guess there's that reason too.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah, I haven't seen this one before, but I remember wanting to see it last year. Specifically, there was an advanced screening that I was gonna try to go to. And Binx, I I feel like maybe I mentioned it to you, but for whatever reason I didn't make it, and I didn't hear much about what people at large thought about this movie, but I do remember someone who will not be named for now seeming to have said they didn't enjoy it. At least that's the vibe that I got. So I went into this apprehensive and feeling like I might end up disappointed. But I want to be very distinct and I want to be very clear and very specific. I didn't think this would be anywhere near as bad as the mean one, but uh rather I thought I might find that it fails to live up to its potential, much like the mean one did. So I was a little nervous going into this.

SPEAKER_06 4:40

I think that's fair. Outside of just hearing about this movie, I really didn't look that far into it, didn't hear much about it to your point, Binx, didn't hear a whole lot of people talking about it, even though I knew it existed. And even just not knowing anything, I don't really think you have to. I think given the title alone, you gotta be expecting some horror twist on one of, if not my favorite Christmas movie of all time, It's a Wonderful Life with James Stewart, Donna Reed. You just don't need to watch a trailer to understand that, I guess, unless you just haven't seen It's a Wonderful Life and don't know that that movie exists and don't know that story. But if you do, then I think you know a little bit of what to expect in this movie, I would think. I just hope that they can make it fun.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

See, I did not put two and two together that way. All I'm thinking of, it's a play on a classic movie title, it's holiday horror, so it's gonna be super campy and cheesy like the Ginger Dead Man or something. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

This is actually an incredible opportunity, and I'm gonna be bold and I'm gonna be brave, and I'm gonna come clean and be honest. I have never seen It's a Wonderful Life.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Get the fuck out of here. Oh my god. Well, yeah. First things, this is a safe space. We don't judge, but also we are concerned.

SPEAKER_06 5:55

I've judged you.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

The looks on all of your faces are is exactly what I expected when I decided to come clean about this. Because I also realized, you know, Bianca, the the fact is that between the last time I watched this, which was a year ago, and now, I still haven't seen it. So that means that I have to just be honest because we're not gonna spend the whole movie with me pretending like I've seen this movie when I haven't. So going into my first watch and also the second, I still don't know how this relates to the original story. I don't know how canon it is. I don't even know if it's exact or what it references. I thought maybe it was just a play on the title, and that's it. So plot-wise, I've got no clue. But going back to in terms of the film, especially when it came out, since it wasn't marketed too much, I do remember a little bit of that early screening that you were talking about, Chris. I don't think it had like a big theater release or, you know, was marketed heavily online, anything to that nature from my recollection, aside from knowing that Justin Long was in it. I just expected for it to be a very indie, very campy film, right? Like nothing too extreme, but just enough where it toes that line between a streaming release, something like straight to streaming, decent budget, and to be bottom of the barrel b horror.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

It's gotta be one or the other, or just right there on that fine line.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Let's give this movie some credit because it was on Shudder.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

No, okay, but bottom of the barrel. But even though it was on Shudder, let's also be clear. The dread Shudder now has been releasing really great films.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

This was December of last year, Binks. Okay. Yes. I mean In a Violent Nature came out a couple months later. What else came out a couple months later?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Listen, In a Violet Nature is not a great movie, but it is a pretty movie.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

No, but that's what I'm saying. In the last year, Shudder has been doing really great, but that doesn't excuse the fact that Shudder still has a lot of questionable films.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Shudder is for the people, by the people. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I'll be the one to say it. I'll be that person. I'm not afraid to be that person. Not everything on Shudder is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Okay, you're actually like this is Tubi.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

Hey, Tubi, you know, sometimes you can find some good shit on Tubi.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Tubi did have Granny Krampus.

SPEAKER_06 8:10

You know? So to each their own, and every service has some kind of gems in there. But Binks, this movie aside, if you do ever explore It's a Wonderful Life, just watch the black and white version. Don't watch it in color.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

I watched it in color for the first time today, and I will never do that again.

SPEAKER_06 8:27

I'm telling you, it's not as good. Wow. Really?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

It wasn't bad, but it it's meant for black and white.

unknown 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Just watch it in black and white.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

I see, I see.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

All right.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Excellent, excellent recommendation. And watch it so that you can understand this movie better and more. Yeah, kind of. You know, you're missing out. You're just you're missing out. I mean, that shouldn't be the main reason you watch it. It should be to watch a masterpiece, to be honest. I mentioned going into this film that I really didn't know anything about it and expected it to be super cheesy and campy and lame and low budget and stuff. That's not what we got at all, right? It's it's this newer style of like heavy polish, nice and shiny, very easily palatable, campy horror comedies, kind of like Totally Killer or Happy Death Day, Freaky, the babysitter. It's got that nice short runtime to it. The pacing is quick. It's just supposed to be like easy and fun.

SPEAKER_06 9:18

Yeah, I mean, I think it was entertaining to a degree. I think it was a little bit silly. I think it was silly until it wasn't really that silly, or maybe they just went so far. I think it just got played out after a while, maybe. But I mostly feel like it was maybe trying to do too much in the film. There was a lot going on, I feel like, in the film for as short of a runtime as we got. And I think the story starts to get maybe too intricate, and that's where it stops making sense in a way. I feel like they were making shit up as they progressed throughout this movie.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, I can see that because there's a really great start to this film. When Justin Long's character is introduced, I thought that was very funny, like very iconic. Our queen, Catherine Isabel from Ginger Snaps, is in this film. She's a highlight, very realistic, down-to-earth character. I I really enjoyed seeing her. I felt though that throughout the film, a lot of the other characters are becoming very one-dimensional. Like it just loses its flavor a bit, tries a little too hard until Justin Long and Catherine Isabel are on the screen, personally. And I think that the first act has promise and it does have that varnish, like you were saying, Mac, you know, like the totally killer, this kind of impression where, like, okay, are we getting an actual great horror holiday film? You know, because we talk in our B sides that we don't get many of those. So it shows that. I think even at one point I was starting to feel like, wow, they revealed something pretty early on that I didn't expect. So what's this movie gonna do? What kind of ride are we about to get on? And I think that's nice. It kind of takes you off this roller coaster that you thought was going in a direction that you can anticipate. But then after that happens, it kind of fades out and just becomes very mediocre. And I felt like even the campiness and the comedy just doesn't land enough because they don't even lean into it fully. So it just fizzles into just nothing after a while. And the short runtime just doesn't even help. Well, okay.

SPEAKER_06 11:25

It might it might work against it the short runtime, actually.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

I don't know. Maybe Mac and I are gonna be more aligned than I expected here because this movie didn't need to do much to be fun, and holy shit, this movie delivered fun. And I think what's surprising about this movie is not only how great it looked, obviously, but how well its kills were choreographed and how it struck a great balance of horror and Christmas. Yes, there are some convoluted nonsense in the plot, but it's a horror comedy, it's a wonderful life, but Christmas and horror and a slasher. So I don't know. I I feel like that gives it some room and some margin for error without it tanking the movie. Because there's a lot in here, there's a lot of heart in here, there's a lot of genuine, wholesome energy in here. There's a lot of camp in this movie that is so fucking fun. And at the end of the day, this is a great throw some lights on the tree, wrap your presents, drink some hot cocoa, and enjoy some Christmas horror in the background. This easily rose above, I think, more fun than I've seen in a lot of other Christmas movies.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Gosh, we are, I think, very close on a lot of our thoughts tonight. There wasn't really a ton that disappointed me. There's some stuff here where you have to really suspend disbelief. The whole premise of the movie requires it. But there's parts like Binks mentions that they just go kind of a little bit overboard and it does get kind of silly. But even then, I think you have to just go back in time and remember when you started this movie that oh, the entire premise is ridiculous. It's completely unbelievable. So you suspend that disbelief and just focus on the good times. And that led me to be more disappointed in how camping can kind of go overboard and go into cheesiness. And that outweighed the issue with the strange things they might have done with the story. But yeah, that the cheesiness at some points I thought was going to be for comedic effect and wasn't, or at least it didn't land, and so it was like, oh, this is just being hallmark to be hallmark for the hallmark of it all. And those, I think, were the moments where I was a bit let down.

SPEAKER_06 13:32

Yeah, see, I don't even think it was like campiness too much to be cheesy. I think that it just went straight to cheesy in some parts, you know what I mean? And I I don't think I'm super surprised by a lot about this movie. Obviously, I knew pretty much the general idea of what was going to happen before going into it, just knowing the premise of, I guess, maybe what it's a parody of in a way. And I just think I'm a little disappointed in the overall plot, I guess. It just didn't feel super cohesive, and I know the suspension of disbelief. I just think it was, I don't know, it just kind of threw me off. I think the story itself, I agree, is intriguing. I think it's a really fun idea. I think there's a lot of really fun stuff about this movie, but I think the execution of the film was poor and it kind of fumbled the ball on the whole thing. So I don't know. I guess we'll see as we dive further into it. And maybe we can dive further into this too. But Chris, I was talking to you about this earlier today. So I feel like the real question that I have, and I don't know how far we can go into it in the spoiler-free section, is did any of you feel like this was like an exploitation movie for the LGBTQ community? Because I think whether they intended it or not, I feel like that was kind of the feeling I was getting.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I did not feel that way. I have a lot to say about that when we get into the characters. This is a movie that features gay characters experiencing gay joy in a great way. And it does suffer a little bit from the barrier gaze trope, but given the nature of it's a wonderful life, I think you can guess where that goes. We have more I have more to say, but no, I I didn't feel any kind of exploitative energy from this.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Okay. Oh, we're gonna have a fun conversation in the spoiler section.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Can we hey I'm gonna drop some links as well to the interviews with the director and the screenwriter for this film, and a lot of the characters and the ideas and even some of the self-referential jokes come from their experience and and come from the screenwriter's experience as a gay man and even like conversations and moments with his in-laws. So yeah, if it feels wholesome.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Okay, that's good. Because I think what Sean's getting at is there's a particular thing going back to the fact that it seems more hallmark cringe than camp or just regular romantic character development. It seems like there are moments there that seem borderline cringe and uncomfortable. There's a particular character in this film that I'm sure we're gonna get into further on that seems like they are the outcast and throughout the film are continued to be called a word that was meant to make them feel terrible, that's turned then to a term of endearment. And it just seems like is this supposed to be like a cute, a meat, cute, romantic moment that I'm supposed to be feeling, or is this somehow a little strange? And using that as an example, but it feels like there's several different moments about the film where I thought that I was supposed to feel one thing, but I'm starting to feel like this is a little forced. The camp part doesn't even feel like camp. We've seen so many fucking camp horror films, and I know I get a lot of shit for my opinion of that all the time. But hey, I'm I'm warming up, I'm enjoying it, I can laugh. Okay. Ginger dead man, quite frankly, probably would get a slash from me at this point from how funny and hilarious it is in retrospect. So I can take, I can have fun and I can laugh. However, I think that with this film in particular, the biggest disappointment for me has been that a lot of characters just feel very nonchalant. A lot of characters then try to be funny and then it just doesn't land. Or if it does land, it's in particular moments that are like not actually happening. And what I mean by that, there's like certain moments where it's like commercials and things like that in the film. So like those parts are fun, but the actual plot, the story, and like the main character and her interactions, the dialogue doesn't always seem to be so funny or comedic. And when it is supposed to be romantic, it doesn't really feel completely like the chemistry's there. So a lot of emotions that I'm supposed to be feeling don't really get felt fully. They have me for the moment there, and then it just kind of fizzes out every single time.

SPEAKER_04 17:54

Can't wait to actually dive into this when we can talk about details of the movie because we had very different experiences, I think, watching this movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, I don't know if we watched the same movie.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

I also just want to be spoiled, by the way, for what It's a Wonderful Life is. If it needs to happen, I understand that this is my fault. So if you need to spoil that movie and what it's about, please do because it's fair. It's been long enough that I've been on this earth and not seen that movie.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah. Sorry you didn't watch this movie from the 40s.

SPEAKER_06 18:23

You'll be fine. We don't even need to spoil the movie, to be honest with you. It's not necessary.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

I can see obviously that we're going to have some contention later in the episode, especially as we dive into characters and their dynamic. But one thing I hope we can all agree on is while this movie isn't scary, it at the very least has a cool-looking, threatening slasher.

SPEAKER_06 18:47

Oh, for sure. Yeah. The slasher, there's a lot of don't get me wrong, there's a lot of fun stuff in this movie. The slasher look very cool. There's we're gonna get into it later. There's even some kills that are pretty cool, but sadly it's not super scary. And the jump scares, how do I put it? Like the jump scares are like a box of old stale crackers. You know what I mean? They're something that you've had before, but when you bite into them, they just don't taste quite right.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Here's to say though, this again, oh, I just want to remind you that this is from the same writer as Freaky, and they're not going for scary.

SPEAKER_06 19:24

Yeah, that's true. But they did go for some jump scares.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

And to this movie's defense, much like Freaky. I don't think that those kind of films need to have jump scares. I'd almost prefer that they don't entirely. You know what I mean? Because then it's like jump scares are meant to make me feel really scared, very frightened to evoke those kinds of emotions. If this is made supposed to make me feel like this is a fun time, entertaining, make me laugh, that's just too much of a range of things. So I think that I prefer that it's not jump scare and you know, like very, very horrific. I want a fun slasher look, I want some fun kills, I want to be saying, like, oh shit, you know, like that kind of thing. And I think that this movie does accomplish that at the very least.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

I don't think you need it to be horrifically scary. I don't think that's required. There's a lot of other slashers that don't achieve that, and they're still incredibly enjoyable. And perhaps some like Halloween might have hit different back in the day, but I think at this point, the best slashers, they're not really they're not really about the scares. Maybe if you're like 13 or something, they might scare you. But for adults, it's it doesn't really have to be that kind of spooky. So yeah, it's low in the Fright Factor, but I think it achieves the same kind of levels that you get in other slasher movies these days.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah. Something else that I think it achieves though, and I'll obviously be curious to see what Sean feels about this. I feel like this movie has no chance in hell in living up to maybe some expectations given its parallel and given Sean's love for it's a wonderful life. But I was personally surprised by how well I felt this movie executed its promise, particularly with adding the slasher element to such a popular classic film. Granted, it's a wonderful life. That movie is 80% build-up, 20% the treatment for this film in terms of like a what if situation. But I feel like this one really nicely balances that hallmark cheese, that Christmas spirit, the subtle humor, the brutal violence. That's a delicate balance and a really tight rope to walk. But I feel like, and being she mentioned this earlier, this movie doesn't waste any time at all revealing very significant critical points of this story, but it manages to subvert expectations later. Which I think is you know what, not an easy thing for a movie of this caliber to do. I wouldn't say this is entirely unpredictable by any means, but it's let's be real, it set out to horrorize it's a wonderful life, and it fucking did that. It served it up on the planner.

SPEAKER_04 21:59

It did do that. Yeah. I mean, there's this formula that these movies recently have been following, and it works. And why deviate? If it's going to give you this nice shiny package that lots of people can chew on, go for it. You take this formula, you apply it to the scenario, and and you get a new result. And I think in this case, they said we're going to have this really simple, fast movie. We're going to apply it to It's a Wonderful Life. Here you go. And nothing wrong with it. I think obviously it's going to be based on other material, but that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

So I obviously am not too sure how this relates to the film, but from what I can gather from what you all shared, I suppose that there is like a what-if scenario in It's a Wonderful Life. So there's that. But I would say even if it had nothing to do with It's a Wonderful Life, in general, we do have a lot of films that have that scenario in place that I think is fun and it follows very similar emotional beats. So I I agree. There's a blueprint that a lot of films have been following and it works, especially as of late. Why change that? And for all of the slack that I've been giving this film, I I think it is effective in that regard. And I really did enjoy that it subverts your expectations at the very beginning. For something that I expected to be kind of silly all around and be very unoriginal, I was pleasantly surprised by that aspect.

SPEAKER_06 23:21

Yeah, I think I give them kudos. They definitely came up with their own way of telling their story through, I guess, the base of It's a Wonderful Life. They definitely took the general concept and then made it a slasher because I don't know that you can 100% just flip It's a Wonderful Life into a horror movie without tweaking some things to fit how you're trying to tell the story. So I'll give them kudos to making their own story with this kind of you know base and kudos to trying to make a slasher out of a classic. I think you gotta give them credit for doing something like that. I do think, you know, we were talking about like how the movie looks and feels. I do think that this, if you had to name two movies that mash this movie up, it would be obviously it's a wonderful life, and then it'd be like totally killer. If you put those together, that's basically this movie.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

With a little less budget, just a tiny, tiny bit.

SPEAKER_06 24:16

But I will say also the ending of this movie, I think is another example of how this movie progressively gets stranger and stranger until I think it becomes a little bit ridiculous. I think there's a a certain reveal after another reveal that just didn't sit right with me and never I don't think it was ever really fully explained unless I missed something.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, there's a lot in here to pick apart. Binx just made some concessions to give this movie a little credit after giving this movie slack. I've been giving this movie a lot of concessions and and and saying some movie rate things. I'm gonna give it some shit here. I don't love the ending. But it's not terrible. And the ending is super cheesy. It's very hallmark. There's no debating that. But you know what? Fuck it. It knows what it's doing. It decided, hey, we're gonna do this bullshit and we're gonna lean into it, and it leans hard. I would change the ending personally. I think there are things that I wouldn't approach the same way by any means. But you know, hey, fuck it. We're all friends here. Having a good time. I've had a good time so far.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

Yeah, the the ending is one of the weaker parts of the movie. It's it's one of those parts where I'm like, is it the cheesiness that bothers me, or is there something else? I'm not exactly sure. That being said, the cheesiness matches many other moments inside of the movie, and so I think the vibe overall fits. So it's probably something perhaps about the story, even a minute detail, that just it doesn't quite work.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, I feel like Chris, you took the words right out of my mouth. I could redo this ending confidently, I'd say. It's very cheesy. Some of the interactions don't even seem authentic. Quite frankly, certainly don't make sense. And it's hard to get into without spoiling, but I I will leave it at this. I think that the film ultimately is just one big amalgamation of a lot of different genres and the Hallmark factory that I like to reference, you know, like the Hallmark Christmas films, that's this ending. And by the end of the film, both times I was like, you know, it's just that if I wanted to see one of those extremely like cheesy Hallmark Christmas films, I would pick that. If I wanted to see an intense, gory slasher, I would pick that. If I wanted to see a horror comedy, I would do that. But goddamn, this whole film is just all of those genres in one big clusterfuck. And the ending is just like the last little bit of all of those things in one big reveal or ending that quite frankly doesn't make sense. And so it's just too much. By the end of it, I'm like, all right, it's over. We're done.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Well, I can't wait to see how all of this translates to a rating, but for now, before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_06 27:02

Well, this movie definitely has gore, that's for sure. Is it the best gore? Uh probably not, but it is there. We do get some gore, and I think there were some really fun shots. I think even if they weren't super believable, I think they were still kind of fun to watch, and we did get enough blood splattering fun to earn itself a solid, I think, medium gore score.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

And what about the animal report? It is wonderfully safe for this film.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. It's a wonderful knife from 2023. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Well, I'll get mine out of the way before Binx jumps in, just so we can potentially do some bookending here. But this was a quick, easy watch that follows an easily digestible formula. I'm here for it. Teen slashers are an absolute pillar of the horror genre, and I love a good fun ride that doesn't take too long and doesn't try to punch you in the face with all the feelings and emotions. I I said this when we watched the babysitter movies or when Chris and I watched There's Someone Inside Your House. This is the type of horror that I can really just get behind these days. Sure, it's predictable, it's formulaic, but it's bright and it's shiny and it's simple enough to enjoy effortlessly. And this is one of the few times that a holiday horror flick I think does it right. So it was a good time for me. It's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Well, in the spirit of coming clean, being honest, being bold, I'll come clean about something else. And I love that Chris brought it up earlier because it just makes sense in terms of a referential point. So remember when she said that there was someone that had mentioned that they didn't like this film. So that person was me.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

I and I'm it's me.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

It is me. It was I. I remember when it was nominated, I had a good laugh with the three of you because I was referenced in the nomination. And I was like, well, you know, that's fair because it does have Justin Long in it and it's accurate. So, Nathan, you're still a card-carrying member, and I appreciate you nominating this for me. That was the right thing to do because I will never shy away from seeing Justin Long again. However, the thing about this film is that it has good bones to it, but I really struggled with the chemistry of a lot of our characters. And like I mentioned earlier, just not feeling like I could invest fully in them. And it's because the film in general just doesn't know what it wants to be at times for me personally. I can't take it seriously, but then when it wants me to, it gets very funny and campy, or it gets very hallmark. The rationality of a lot of the things doesn't make sense in terms of this what if scenario. It just seems silly. And although it is a fun adventure, it's still something that I would have to buy into these characters to be able to be down for the ride. And the only characters that I felt like I wanted to see more of, and potentially was because of the nostalgia, sure, is Justin Long's character and Catherine Isabel's. But they're also just really great actors, and they brought in a lot of really fun comedic relief that lightened the mood for me that brought me in, but there's just not enough of them in the film as well. So it's not just them in the movie, is what I'm trying to say. They're not the main characters in reality. So overall, it was okay the second time around, I'll admit that, but still wasn't wonderful. So it's a definite hack.

unknown 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:34

You gotta give us like a character that we really like, I feel like. And I don't want to say that I went into this one half expecting it to be bad, but admittedly, I did go into this thinking that it was gonna be pretty bad because I just love It's a Wonderful Life so much that I think I just had an a bias for this going into it. I couldn't help myself. It's one of my favorite Christmas movies of all time. So when you're gonna be bold enough to remake this, not remake the movie, but try to make a horror version of the movie. And granted, I love horror, but there has to be some boundaries, I feel like, and and if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it right. But the one thing I did appreciate was that I liked the play on the name. I thought it was simple, it was clever. I appreciated even some of the Easter eggs and the nods in this movie. I just wish the movie was just a little bit better, you know, because the story starts off really interesting and then it progressively gets dumber. And the acting is bad, and granted, that's probably the point, but it didn't work in a fun and campy way. I'm not a Justin Long fan. I don't like most of the stuff that he's in. Don't know if it's a him thing, I don't know if it's a whatever thing. I'm just not a big Justin Long fan. The movie is a quick 87 minutes, so it's an easy watch, but I think it's also because of this that the pacing never allows you to settle on any one thing, and so there's just not a lot of great development with any one theme or even character for that matter, in my opinion. And so it's a wonderful knife is less like it's a wonderful life and more like a wonderful waste of time for me, so it's a hack.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

Well, this is entirely expected. Listen, this movie gives us a horror adaptation of a serious Christmas classic, and I enjoy it's a wonderful life. It's obviously a classic for a reason. This is something I've seen many times in my life, but I would never say that I love it passionately, probably even anywhere near the degree that Sean does. Not if there's anything wrong with it, I just don't have that space in my heart card for that film. So there's no reverence here really. And where Binx couldn't latch on to these characters, I found them so relatable and really easy to root for. But at the end of the day, this movie is wholesome. This movie has a badass slasher. They have kill scenes in this movie that made me pause and think, holy shit, the choreography in this is great. The blocking is great. This movie is cute, it's gay, it's campy, it's violent, but overall, it's fun. It's a fucking holly jolly Christmas for me, bro. This shit is a slash, undeniably. And with that, it's a wonderful knife as selected by our patrons, has earned two hacks and two slashes. But there's so much more to discuss when we return from our break. When we return from our break, we'll compare it to It's a Wonderful Life and really break down those characters. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_05 33:36

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SPEAKER_02 34:48

We have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings and enter the debates for the night, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_06 34:56

I just want to say that I love how this kill count is way higher than it should be, only because there was like a mentioned 22 kills in some dialogue early on in the film. So it gives you a grand total of 39 kills, and I feel like there's plenty of throat slicing, eyeball stabbing, candy cane slashing fun to go around. So I gotta ask which one of these wonderful kills was your favorite?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

You know what? I'm sure there's gonna be so much overlap here.

SPEAKER_06 35:28

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

And there's so many that are just fucking excellent. I think I want to go semi-chronological order. I'm gonna skip the first one. The fucking candy cane through the back of the head, are you kidding me? That was so good.

SPEAKER_06 35:42

It was fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

That gave me what Black Christmas couldn't give me.

SPEAKER_06 35:46

It was so good, but I loved also that it was like after the fact that Eddie was kissing Kara or whatever, and she was like backed away, like, ew, what did you eat? And it's just blood splurting out of his mouth, and then the reveal that the candy cane went through. Fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Pushed it in a little bit more. It makes me wonder, and again, this is not like a critique at all, but to be a fly on a tree looking in on this, I want to see the other angle. I want to see how far that candy cane went in, and were were the hands still on there, or was it in there enough to hold it and support it its own weight, and then the angel just pushed it in even more. Does it matter? No, I just want to fucking see it.

SPEAKER_06 36:33

Yeah. But I think that's part of the problem with the kills, is that there are some really fun kills like this, but I kind of wanted more from them. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 36:43

You know, I want more, but not because I'm dissatisfied, but because I'm just having so much fun. I feel like I saw a lot.

SPEAKER_06 36:50

I feel like I saw We see stuff, but then I'm like, man, I want to see more of so maybe it is the feeling that you have that I'm like, man, like, okay, that was cool, but like give me some more.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Maybe so when you say more, like specifically more candy cane.

SPEAKER_06 37:05

Well, even more of the actual kill happening, like some really good shots of the carnage too. But yeah, give me some more Christmas decoration kills. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Pull an art the clown and fucking linger in it.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yeah, that's fair. Because I think although there's a lot of kills, there's maybe like a good five, maybe less than that, where it's very Christmas specific. So my favorite is Buck Waters, Sheriff Buck Waters, at that point, when he is basically the new treetopper, like very angel looking. I think that that was real clever, even though it's just like he just got stabbed, but still it's like the way he's displayed and being risen up. Like, I think that's very cool. And there's not a lot of those kinds of kills in the film, but it's fun when it happens.

SPEAKER_06 37:53

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:55

I I'm gonna go with Pete because that dude, I've one, I feel like had it coming, and then two, the way he went out was just extra violent.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

Oh my gosh. It was the entire scene of him being brutally murdered, the strobing. Oh my gosh, this is the kill that really made me feel like holy shit, the choreography of this, and this epic music in the back. You have this Christmas very seasonal festive music, the strobe lights, but then you flip to the perspective from the inside of the house seeing the angel absolutely butcher him.

SPEAKER_05 38:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

And then the blood is splattering on the window, but the party goers are still oblivious inside. It is so close and yet so far away. We saw that earlier in the film with the first couple kills. But there's something specifically about that scene and just the theatric buildup of it that made me think, holy shit, even if the rest of this movie fucking sucked, these kills make it worthwhile.

SPEAKER_06 38:57

Yeah. And it was like this kill too, I think, to your point, Chris. I think it was like one of the most visually appealing kill scenes in the entire movie. I think it's also really fun because not only just for the kill and then the eventual decapitation, but because he basically, in a sense, foreshadowed his own death like moments before it actually happened, there's the dialogue that's happening, and they're talking about more murders happening and whatever, and he's like, What am I supposed to do? Stop living life. And the next thing you know, this motherfucker is getting hacked away by the angel. And the strobing effect is really cool, but even just the moment where the blood splatters up on the white mask of the angel, it's just actually really, yes, visually, probably one of the best kills in the whole film for sure. I do want to mention though, I think here's a kill that I feel like maybe only because of maybe the visual effects that they chose to do with the scene, it wouldn't have been as good without it. Darla's kill probably wouldn't be as cool if it wasn't during the I guess you would call it another type of strobe scene where the lights are out but the camera flash is happening and whatever, it illuminates the theater for a second and you see the attack unfold as this light. It's like, you know, the whole trick of lighting a match, it goes out kind of trope that we see in horror movies. But I think it was clever the way they did this, and I think they took a otherwise pretty fucking boring kill and made it kind of fun to watch.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Well, Darla and Robbie both. And we're gonna get to that scene in particular because I found that so much of what I enjoyed of this movie was centered around that theater. But just to give another one, I think it was made very obvious that the angel was not Justin Long's character, Henry Waters, when we have the angel killing Winnie's mom and the side piece immediately after the dad leaves the house. But still, holy shit, what a fun time.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was a good one. He went ham in that house. He he felt that disrespect and paid it back triple.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

And made it known.

SPEAKER_06 41:05

Definitely made it known.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

And also shout out the first death of the angel, when we get the reveal that it's Justin Long, but he's about to kill Jimmy. He has his dagger right over his eyes, and then when he's able to take jumper cables to fry him, his body seizing while the Christmas lights are flickering in and out, and then ultimately the power just like drip drops out. Fucking incredible. That looked so good. There are so many kills in this movie that just look fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Yeah, it's that extra shiny feel. I love it. It's just like well polished, it's nice to look at. It doesn't have to be all dark and grungy and gross. It can be bright and vivid, but still have that nice like backdrop of the snow, and it just pops. Love it.

SPEAKER_06 41:53

Yeah, I think the kills definitely make this movie a lot of fun to watch. Like that's what you're here for, is all of the different kills and whatnot. But I also think there's another element to this film that I think can make it fun and worthwhile for a watch, even though overall obviously didn't like the film as a whole. I think there are a lot of fun elements. So kills are probably at the top, but I also loved a lot of the little Easter eggs and nods that they threw in this film. Specifically, one of my favorites was just that theater scene when they're playing the OG a Christmas Carol, because I think that's just a really nice little throw-in there. But there are a couple other ones, I don't know if we want to get into them now.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Absolutely 100%. And I'm so torn because again, with the theater of it all, we'll get into the production elements, but I know what you did last Christmas. Why the fuck doesn't that exist? It should absolutely exist. But Winnie's aunt is named Gail Prescott.

SPEAKER_06 42:51

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

As an homage to Sidney Prescott and Gail Weathers.

SPEAKER_06 42:55

I know, it's such a good one. I think actually the one that may slip past a lot of people, unless you really know your fucking Scream, is that the whole slasher costume in this movie is a nod to Scream because the original idea for Ghostface was to be all white, but they changed it to black, thinking obviously it would be a little bit more scary or intimidating. So I think this was a really cool nod to that. And so, yeah, man, these nods, these Easter eggs, they make the film almost worth a watch. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Almost worth definitely worth a watch. The kills and the slashes.

SPEAKER_06 43:32

It might be worth a watch. Just watch it, like it, hate it, whatever. You should watch it once.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Listen, even if you don't want to fucking watch this movie, the super cut of the angel doing its thing, excellent. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 43:44

Just watch like the kill count, maybe. You know, like a reel on the kill count.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Yeah, on YouTube. Somebody's gotta have that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Oh my gosh. Just watch the movie and enjoy the angel killing people. The angel, gotta say, best thing to look at in the film. And when I saw the first shot, I was like, uh, it's gonna be kind of cheesy. But really grew on me. I never even put two and two together that this thing was kind of like a reverse in terms of like Scream's costume. Didn't even think about Scream while watching it. Gosh, I mean, yeah, there's just like something flowy and white and bright, and the face has no face, which is always a good time in a killer's mask when they are dehumanized and that there's not even eyeballs to look at. It's like a Spider-Man mask. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

There it is. Um the blank pale emotionless face, Alan Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_04 44:32

That's because Michael Myers really did it best.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Listen, this one is really up there. I fucking really enjoy this design for a killer. But aside from how incredible the angel looks, I'm really a fan of the set design and how this town feels. It feels very hallmark Christmas, although it does feel very cracked and dis depressing when we actually get into the alternate timeline here. But man, one of the biggest things I felt was holy shit, I would love to own a vintage theater. I used to be on this kick and I used to have this dream. Obviously, you know like the narrow cinema over in Norfolk. I just would love to be able to own and preserve a historical theater and just show whatever the hell I want. But the scene, the setting, a lot of the scenes that happen in the theater, we'll get into characters later and the evolution of Winnie and Bernie. But even when we look outside on the marquee and we have I know what you did last Christmas and a Christmas carol with Tiny Tim is dead just slapped under it, you know, it points out Jimmy was the tiny Tim of this movie, and he's gone. He's out of here.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Nice. Good shout out. Who needed Tiny Tim anyway?

SPEAKER_00 45:46

No, I I will say I I really do appreciate the set design too, and I think that that theater is really fun. It reminded me, ironically, because it's a holiday film too, of this theater that I went to to see the 2006 Black Christmas. I I think of it as something else. That's my referential point. But that Black Christmas in particular, I saw at this historical theater in Sarasota because I used to live there, my freshman year of high school. And it just gives like a really authentic, fun vibe. You feel like you're back in time a little bit, like you really feel like I'm going to the movies. Something about that marquee, right? Something about how it really stands out amongst the display of a plaza. It's just, it's really fun and warm. And I got that vibe from the set, even though the tone of the town definitely does not feel warm and fun and exciting. It's so different in the parallel universes, considering what has happened in each of them, right? And we'll get into like specifically why that is later, which is bizarre. But I I will say that's fun. The choreography and the lighting of that scene as well inside when he is like killing everybody is absolutely nuts, too. That the flashing, that strobe light effect, that's crazy. Yeah, so fun. Loved it a lot.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

So good.

SPEAKER_06 47:13

They have a little Dracula poster in there too, if you catch it. Right when the lights go back on for a second. That was kind of cool. Yeah, I don't know. Here's what I think for me, there's a sequence of scenes that they don't all happen at the same time. There's this whole concept as we move through different universes or alternate realities or what have you in the movie. And I loved how this Christmas party that they keep finding themselves at. Was it Robbie's house that has the Christmas party, right? I think it's just the progression of how this Christmas party goes from like a nice small Christmas party in the beginning to this house party that we're probably most familiar with, you know, from maybe high school and things like that, and her friend is eating weed gummies and things like that, and it's just kind of a fun time. And then by the end of it, it's just this rundown house, the most drastic change it could possibly be. You've got it's like a crack den. There's like a rundown house playing metal, of course, and people are spraying graffiti on the walls, and Vicky is now smoking crack or whatever the hell that was in the basement, and it's just like this den of junkies. And I'm like, man, we really went from this kind of innocent Christmas party at Robbie's house to like maybe a regular high school rager to like literally a fucking drug den by the end of this movie.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Yeah, I mean, it's like a very particular way to cope when your party gets crashed, teenagers die, and then all of a sudden 27 or 28 people are murdered, and death is imminent.

SPEAKER_06 48:52

Yeah, smoke some crack. Fuck it.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Don't move. Stay and just smoke crack.

SPEAKER_06 48:57

Yeah, yeah, don't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 48:59

It's like New England or something. It's horrible. The party scene was interesting. I never experienced those kind of house parties, even as an adult, unfortunately. Not the good kind, not the crack dead kind.

SPEAKER_06 49:10

Not the crack dead kind.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

No, no one should experience that. That's not good. But what I really enjoyed though was the whole movie theater of it. You've already mentioned it a bunch. I think m all of you the whole scene where they get together, they bundle up, all right, we're gonna stay safe in the movie theater, and then she wakes up there. Loved it. I don't know what it was, it just felt like it made a lot of dreams come true. I think all of us would love to fall asleep in a movie theater and wake up and no one's telling you to get out. You just like do whatever you want to. Yeah, maybe that's part of owning your own movie theater. Maybe that's one of the benefits. But that just seems really awesome. And I also loved it because it's like always those kind of moments when people are actually coming closer together. There's a big feeling of trust, you know, when you have this level of danger, and now you can sleep and wake up and not freak out. Yeah. That's great.

SPEAKER_06 49:55

That's so true.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

That is actually what stood out as very significant there. These characters have some chemistry and not every ounce of their relationship or their dynamic. It makes a lot of sense in terms of the speed and how quickly they progress there. But there is something there about just the innate chemistry or the sense of like, okay, if they are persevering through this shit together, if Winnie had looked a little bit differently at Bernie sooner and hadn't been wasting all this time with Robbie, is there some compatibility there that could have made much more sense in her timeline? And that's something that I can really appreciate. But listen, my favorite scene hands down, and it has nothing to do with Winnie and Bernie together, but it's when Winnie narrowly escapes with her life and she's introduced to Buck the Sheriff, because this motherfucker's dialogue is some of the funniest in the movie, and it's so just like subtle in the background. Can we get some more of that caution tape? I feel like we need to be a little more cautious here. There's a line there about looking for a canine just to really help with the vibes of everything. This guy's fucking clueless. But that was hilarious then run up against how terrifying it must be. Winnie, as a character, there's a lot there that I really appreciate, especially in their portrayal of it. But when you have this scene where you have this comedic note, but then the mind fuck of she killed someone, and then she sees them there in an alternate reality a year later, completely healed while she is very unhealed. Oh my gosh. I loved that dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 51:41

It honestly screamed a little bit of Donnie Darko to me instead of just It's a Wonderful Life, this whole alternate universe here. Yeah. Because I think it's a wonderful life deals with it a bit differently. Yeah. And this one, it shows like the darkness of a twisted reality. That was that was a lot of fun. I think Justin Long, you know, Justin Long, I actually enjoy watching, depending on what he's in. But I think here it was so over the top that it just worked really well to have him be this character. It was just zany and crazy and cringe worthy, just like the fake teeth, the fake tan, the fake hair, Joel. All of that combined.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:17

Oh, a hundred percent Joel Olstein. That was great. And I think flipping realities and then seeing him again there like that, like, uh yeah, you're like, oh no, I thought we were done with this guy finally. Now we have to spend the rest of the movie with him alive again.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

I remember when I first watched it, when he died so early on, I was like, you have to be fucking kidding me. They tricked me into this movie. This is the reason I watched this movie. Justin Lung got killed already. No, I refuse to believe this shit. Because remember, I didn't know that it's a wonderful life had anything to do with a time jump or a what if or anything. I didn't read the synopsis of this, nothing, right? So I was like, wait a minute, what the fuck is this movie about? And he's already gone. Should I turn this off? Like, what's this about? So I was glad that he came back and I could only imagine being Winnie and having to re-encounter that fake smile and very terrible tan skin again. Like his look is just something else. It's terrible. Yeah, and it's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

But he embraces her and says, Yeah, I'm gonna invade your personal space.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Yeah. Like with the most awkward hug. Oh, it was he's just a lot. He's a lot, just lunk does Zany really well.

SPEAKER_06 53:26

I think he does these characters that you just don't like. And I don't know. I didn't have a problem with them when you when you think back to Jeepers Creepers. I didn't really care about him as a character as passionately as I do now, but I think maybe somewhere along the lines of Tusk, it just ruined it for me. And so, you know what? If he had died and not come back in the beginning, this might have been a slash.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

But look, we've talked a lot about Justin Long. And although I love him, obviously, in this film, and and I thought his performance was great. We're definitely gonna talk about her. We're gonna talk about Gail and how hilarious she is. I think that she's probably a much better character. And Catherine's performance as a whole is much better than Justin Long's, too. Just in the sense of she felt the most real and approachable, relatable. She felt like an actual, not even character, like someone that I know in real life that would talk the way that she did, like her clapbacks and her sassiness and the way that she handled the dad. It was almost like, yeah, everything in this film and the way that people are acting, both in the present-day real universe and then the what if parallel one, they all seem so like cookie-cutter and guarded and jaded, not very authentic. But her and her partner, they are very real, down to earth. I loved their dialogue. Everyone else was like, Oh, are you like a cardboard or like an AI robot? I don't know. Yeah. Something felt so off about their dialogue.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Well, I loved her because she was, again, the cool gay aunt. And she really came through like a champ. But also the dynamic in one of the best moments in this movie, thinking about Winnie and Winnie's relationship with her. It was the Aguilarian thong bit.

SPEAKER_06 55:16

What's an Aguilarian thong?

SPEAKER_02 55:18

I knew that thong would bring people together one day.

SPEAKER_06 55:21

That was a great moment for sure. I think Gail Prescott was probably the best character in the movie, to be honest with you. Because like for me, even it's not that we have a whole bunch of shitty characters, but for me, even all the way down to I hate to say it, Winnie, I just felt like for me, the characters weren't super likable. I just didn't really care.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah. Look, I'll chime in now that you brought her up, because I know that based on the look of Chris's face, she feels very, very, very, very differently. Winnie is not a main character that I can get behind that I can say I was rooting for and championing something about her, especially again from present day to this parallel universe. I think you mentioned it, Chris. It's like if she had even shown a little bit more interest, not even in a romantic way. That's not even what I'm talking about. It's more like a sense of compassion and empathy towards Bernie. I would have maybe bought into her feeling more genuine as a person, but it felt like such a stark shift. And then when you continue to call her weirdo as a term of endearment after the fact and make it like a fun, cute little thing, it's like she just shared earlier on how much that hurt her. Actually, so now that I'm talking about Bernie, I will say that Bernie's like higher up on that list in terms of a character. I like Bernie as a character a lot more than I do Winnie because Bernie comes off a little bit more authentic and genuine than Winnie does. And Winnie, I feel like I wish we had potentially even more time to see that genuine compassion and empathy and guilt come through throughout the film. There's moments of it where I believe it, but then the rest just kind of feels like, oh, we're just trying to get the plot going and make this kind of adventure with Bernie feel like this sense of like relationship building, but I don't actually see that happening in small spurts. It's like from one minute you just decided to help her. The next minute we're in the theater and we're holding hands. And then the next second she's telling you that she's grateful that you paid attention to her because she had been bullied and all of these other things. And then the next second you're calling her weirdo again. It just seems so off.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Okay, so there's a lot to unpack here with Winnie, with Bernie, with the characters as a whole. I'll start with where I agree, and that is their dynamic arrived at a conclusion that feels too fast. And obviously, this movie has to move quickly because it happens in the span of a day or 24 hours, etc. There's not a lot of time here to build up. It's a wonderful life. That fucking movie is very long. All right. Maybe the runtime isn't incredibly long from what I'm imagining, but 80% of that movie is not the what if scenario. But Winnie and Bernie's relationship is cute, but I do think it needed more. And it's interesting because the intention behind it and what the filmmakers feel they executed was Bernie and Winnie having a slow, delicate build, but their progression felt way too quick. And there are moments where it feels a little bit like pandering. They were supposed to, as it was written, it was supposed to feel a little more vague, like a is there or isn't there something there? Now I'm torn because on the one side, I love that they just fucking commit because the actors in these roles played it like they were in love, and their chemistry on set and how they felt about those characters. Everybody involved with the production just arrived at this conclusion, like, yes, this feels like the right choice for them. And I love that they made that choice. Because fuck, we just need someone to have a happy ending. And when we think about like representation and film, like I I love that they're there, but I wish there was something a little more a little more built up. I almost feel like if I could redo some of this, I would have them want to kiss at the like the farewell time shift, but not be able to, and then have their first kiss in the real timeline. That I think would have felt a little bit better for me. It's subtle, but it's there. But thinking back holistically, I love the fact that this is a movie written by a gay screenwriter and the studio supported adding more gay characters. This wasn't a hey, you can have your one token and that's it. Originally, Jimmy was supposed to be the only gay character. And when you think you even think about Jimmy himself, I love that we have a man who is confident in himself, who's comfortable in his own skin. And this is where I think it makes Bernie's dynamic a little bit more interesting later. He's someone who's comfortable in his own skin, and he doesn't have a complex relationship with his father. Their relationship is so wholesome and so beautiful, and I wish it wouldn't come at the expense of Winnie feeling like what the fuck later on. But it allows you to really appreciate that there are gay characters without this being the crux of what the film is about. It's inconsequential. There are characters in this whose sexualities are of zero consequence to their fate, and we see them experiencing joy, and that is the best part of the dynamic of all these characters.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Yeah, to the point about Jimmy, I think it's incredible to see a young gay man in a positive relationship with their father, although at the expense of Winnie, like you're saying, everything that you said, completely agree that it's at the expense of Winnie, but we never, ever, if not rarely, see this dynamic where the father's son is so positive, so much so that it's like that's their everything. You know what I mean? Like this is the son that was supposed to take over, that yeah, gets the car and it it's it means so much to the dad. You never really see that. And and I loved that. I no issue there. I also love that it's very real. It's very real to have, sure, like a fun game on, you know, and and and that kind of relationship. It it almost seems like, in reality, I don't even give it a second thought as I'm presenting it and I'm as I'm watching it, like, oh, okay, sure. I love it. It almost seems so authentic. All of these relationships seem authentic to me. It was really that Bernie and Winnie's relationship that seems so, I don't want to say entire, I don't want to say like random, but it just felt a little disingenuine because at the beginning, it almost felt like, wow, you really don't give a single fuck that this girl is being mistreated for no real reason, to be frank. She just looks like a normal ass girl that's just sitting in a corner. That's the other part to it, too, that's so interesting, the way that they wrote her in particular. Again, looking back at the grandscape of all these characters, they seem very one-dimensional. They seem very fake. And so it's funny that they choose to call this outcast weirdo and bully her to such a degree when she's just looks pretty normal to me. And Winnie also just dismisses that too. But when it inconveniences her in this parallel universe, all of a sudden she goes then to this weirdo. And I say weirdo because that's what she continues to call her throughout the entire film.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:32

It was part of it why I felt like they were making shit up as they went.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

So again, thinking about how those characters in particular were written, they arrived at a conclusion while this movie was in production. So I think it's impossible to go back on what they did and then make this feel probably built up to the way they were.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

So then it's true. Yeah, so then it's true what Sean said. So they were making it up as they go.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

I wouldn't say completely making it up. They made a decision and they should have fucking gone back and done some shit. But there was a journey for them, and then they added a layer to it. It wasn't like you know, they were supposed to have this little bit of tension. For example, when we have the opening scene, when we see the first moment that Winnie and Bernie see each other, and there's a little look. There's like a little exchange, just a little bit of chemistry there. It's friendly. They knew that from getting from there to the end of the movie, it would be a ooh, is there something more here? But they decided to halfway through go very definitive into that. So not completely making up as they went along, but they escalated to a degree that they probably shouldn't have escalated to without going back and adding some more into it. But the thing about Bernie, it's not about her appearance. Bernie is a weirdo because she's a loner. Bernie is a weirdo because she's an introvert in her own world, and you think about how she's raised, what she's contending with, she spends a lot of time alone and inside her own head. And when you think about Jimmy, for example, Jimmy's a star quarterback, Jimmy's a gay man, Jimmy is comfortable in his own skin. Winnie is comfortable in her own skin. She's not a loner by appearance, she's a loner because of her lack of sense of self and security, and to be able to like be bold about who she is and connect with other people. So that's if at least what I took away from it, that's why she is called and references Weirdo so much. Granted, Winnie takes some time later to really get to know her, and then you walk into this bedroom and realize they have so much in common, and that is a beautiful thing. But for me, it was it was never just this, like, oh okay, well, she looks like a random. Like, I fucking looked normal when I was a kid and I was fucking bullied. It doesn't fucking matter. But I again I think it goes back to how much I really enjoy Winnie as a character because we start out seeing what her world is like, and then all of a sudden, one year later, the trauma is lingering. She misses her best friend, her dream school rejects her. It fucking sucks. But it's interesting because it's this sense that she's the one who endured the most personal loss of her family. And even though her brother endured something frightening, and even though she loves her brother, and her brother clearly loves her, and he wants to share this car with her and everything, the trauma of Christmas doesn't hurt the same way. And what I fucking love about that element in particular, what Winnie brings to the table, is that not everybody fucking loves Christmas. Not everybody loves the holidays. For a lot of people, this shit fucking sucks. And it is terrible, a terrible time. It's a terrible thing to get through. People feel like they have to survive the holidays. And that's what I absolutely loved about Winnie's approach to this. Granted, they kind of undo that when it goes hard into the hallmark at the end. But I love that entire weight of what she brought.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:47

I mean, that is unfortunate that people feel like they have to survive the holidays.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Yeah. But it is true, and it does bring a very realistic aspect to a group of people that we don't really see in media as well. Because the holidays is always just this displayed as like a cheery time, and I think we don't really think about that in particular. But going to the ending, since you brought it up, it's like that gets undone. I think also to an extent we'll never get real a real explanation as to why Bernie suddenly remembers her across universes.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

I have crossed oceans of time and parallel timelines to find you.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:27

Yeah, I would love to know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

Listen, alternate universes can't stop lesbian love, okay? Step off. Let us have this win.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:34

It's a force to be reckoned with.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Yeah, the force awakens in life.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:39

We just needed more screen time with some of the development of this stuff. When you have a story and you have this what if alternate reality and you have to go down that path, but you're also building the characters and you're trying to see the differences between the characters and this reality versus that reality. Then you've got a love story in the midst, and then you've got like two different killer, you got so much shit going on, you don't have enough time to do it. And you go to It's a Wonderful Life. That's why that movie is probably two hours because you gotta build the story, you gotta build the characters, you gotta build this shit up. But when you cut that by 30 minutes plus, 40 minutes, 50 minutes, whatever it is, you're gonna lose something.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Yeah. I do think for as much shit as I've talked about the seven-day expiration and the seven-day curse, I think this Northern Light shit could have lasted a good seven days. Fuck it. Give her a week to figure this shit out. A week would have been long enough.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:31

Yeah, that's the threshold right there. If it's a week, you know that person. I mean, I just want to throw it out there that she went into a universe in which she no longer existed. And Homegirl, like not at first, but eventually believed her, rooted for her, supported her, and helped her. That might be all it takes.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

Yeah. It was, I guess, akin to uh love at first sight. But for me it was when Bernie said, I know we just met, but I have no doubt this town was better with you in it. Handhold. It's cute, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

I don't know if any of you watched the X-Files when you were younger, like I did, but the cigarette smoking man is in this movie. Hopefully you caught that. He plays Mr. Evans. That was fantastic. Just to see him in something again, even though he wasn't talking to Mulder. Still loved it. I feel like his character didn't need to die. He's old, decrepit. They could have just forced him out of that house in another way.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

How the fuck have I gone this far in the episode without talking about how fucking great it was to have that snowman explode and a knife to just go straight to him?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

That was such a great first kill. Sorry, Roger Evans, R.I.P. You didn't deserve it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:40

Yeah, but also, okay, so didn't mind the kill, but it was like one of the kills that we got like the the throat slashing of it all, and you got like the full frontal shot of that, but it looked like the blade wasn't even touching his neck.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm just here for the snowman explosion.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:59

Yeah, the snowman was cool. It was cool, but I thought it was hilarious. It was the first kill, and you're like, fuck, this is how we're gonna do it, man. You're gonna blatantly just slash the air with some blood gushing out of his neck.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

For as much good as we've spoken about these characters, or at least in the ways that I've I've tried to defend some of them, I will admit that Bernie and Winnie's progression is one of the worst parts of this movie. But the other worst part is the conspiracy about Henry Waters being the violent death spirit who sent Winnie back or to an alternate reality. Because what does he gain?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:32

Well, yeah, why? Yeah, why are you doing that?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

It doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:36

This is working against you, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

But okay, and then obviously he's on full display as a killer in the towns, people have glowing green eyes. No thanks. But hear me out. What if it really is the spirit of someone who endured a violent death that sent her back? But what if that spirit was her dead best friend? What if that spirit was like, I love you, you belong here. If you really think the world would be better off without you, let me show you how much worse it could have been. You couldn't save me, but you can save all these people.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:09

That's it's impactful. There's a lot of things that this movie could have done to be better. They didn't take those paths. We don't get the explanation why Bernie just suddenly remembers across a different universe or reality, and we also just don't really get an explanation for why Mr. Waters over here can just hypnotize a whole fucking town. He's some kind of warlock out of nowhere. That's cool. We don't need to know the details on any of this shit. They're just gonna throw a bunch of shit at us and hope for the best. The best part of this movie is probably what they ended up mishandling the most, and that's the story. Because I think the concept or the idea of turning the story of It's a Wonderful Life and turning it into this twisted kind of horror slasher is a really interesting concept. The story in and of itself could be pretty fun, pretty cool, but I think there were some choices that they made, and the way they executed it was just too poor, and I think it just lost whatever potential the movie started out with. So I think the story in and of itself and the idea is probably the best part of the movie, but I feel like if they just handled it better, it would have been a night and day difference, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:20

I think the best part of this film is the fact that I will now finally watch It's a Wonderful Life because I still don't actually know what this took from It's a Wonderful Life because I thought it was the hypnotizing of the town. I thought that was a part of the It's a Wonderful Life movie, but I guess according to just a few seconds ago, it wasn't. So I still don't think I know what It's a Wonderful Life is about. So we've maintained that posterity, and this film will now force me to watch one of the best films in American history. Congrats.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

There we go. Look at that. I think we could sit here and I'm really biting my ton, holding back the urge to just explain it's a wonderful life. I'm so glad you're gonna watch it. Good luck to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

Before we move on, though, I want to go back to something you mentioned, Sean, and something you mentioned, Chris. The townsfolk being in a trance is the absolute worst part of this movie because it is completely out of left field. If they had been gathered and he did what he did on stage and they were like scared or something or freaked out, but too scared to run away, fine. Like we're gonna buy it because they're broken, they're all cracked out or whatever. But no, they just don't even budge. They have glowing eyes, they're like just glued to it. That was weird, and it felt like again, like out of nowhere, really strange. And it just broke the vibe of the film because I think up until that point, you're like, cool, I can get it, I'll suspend my disbelief, whatever. And then we get here and you're like, okay, this is weird. It just doesn't feel like anything else that we've seen so far. But then again, we made a wish upon a star and went into an alternate universe in which we didn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

No, we made a wish upon a green sky.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:04

Yeah, that's true. But it feels like a different suspension of a different disbelief. And I think that's what really throws you off when you get to that moment, and that's what the worst part is.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:13

Wait, oh okay. So then if we can just take a quick moment to unpack that real fast, then because now I'm really entering confused territory. So this is another thing that they just fucking made up because why not?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:26

Absolutely. This was not something that was taken from Wonderful Life.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:30

There's a lot Wonderful Life.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

So do we think that it was just like the evil spirit of waters also just like across universes taking over this town? Is that what we're supposed to believe?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:42

We're not supposed to believe anything. We're just supposed to watch it. I think is really what happens when you get to that part of the movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:49

Boy. They're really hoping that no one's thinking too hard about the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

I see. Or on a podcast meant to review it because I was trying my best. You see, this moment right here, right? Like I was trying to give it some more flowers, and then this happens, and I'm like, yeah, I feel real good about how I scored this very interesting. And for that reason, and that reason alone, now I really won't re-watch it. As the episode was going on, I was like, all right, maybe I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say. I'll give it in another shot. No, twice as two times too many now. Now I just feel like, why bother? I'm good. I'll do it's a wonderful life. I've got plenty of other Justin Long films to see. I'll see my ginger snap. Look, Ginger Snap, there's three movies, okay? One of them is very much Wintertime, Ginger Snaps 2. I'll watch that for the holidays, give it a whirl, and be done with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:42

Yeah, I think the tough thing is that it's just kind of hard to find really good holiday horror as of late. I mean, if you look, there's some classics and whatnot, but it's it's uh in my eyes, few and far between. I do think because of the kills, because of the Easter eggs, because of some of the stuff we get in this movie, I could see this becoming someone's background horror movie to throw on sometime in December. But as easy as this movie is to get through with its short runtime, I just personally don't think I'm gonna be revisiting this one again. But never say never, I guess. It might just show up one day.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:19

And I'd be okay if it showed up one day because I think this was a fun time. Like you said, there's not a lot of great holiday horror out there, but I think this is part of the enjoyable holiday horror. So if I get the opportunity around next Christmas or Christmas after that, something like that, I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:33

Listen, this one is going to be in my December lineup annually moving forward. So I'm very excited for that. And I can't thank Nathan and the rest of our patrons enough for bringing this one to the table. But for now, there you have it, folks. It's a wonderful night from 2023, has earned two hacks and two slashes. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:58

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