373: Wolf Man (2025)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

I think the fact that it was long and scraggly and sweaty is what bothered me the most.

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Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. It's a little too dangerous for us to go outside right now. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

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Totally killer, pun intended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

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Jesus, what does that smell?

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The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

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I swear to god, it was standing up on two feet like a person.

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And the paranormal paramorph Binks. Is this shit it? Sorry, honey. Shiffers. This week we're back in the theater to check out a modern reimagining of a classic universal monster.

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And if you support the show, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we get into all kinds of werewolf nonsense.

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And before we get down to business though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Let's follow up on some stuff. Well, we're halfway through our new year, New Blood Drive. So there's a couple of weeks left to save 25% on your first month or year of membership. So get in there, get that deal, become one of our newest bloods, if you will. Young blood.

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Oh, it's starting to sound like a gang.

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SPEAKER_00 2:10

Well, last week we explored the enduring legacy of a 1941 Universal Monster and saw how it helped shape the standard for werewolf lore in cinema. This week, though, we're traveling more than 80 years into the future to see Lee Wennell's modern take. And while the original film saw Lon Cheney Jr. fend off Bella Lagosi with a silver cane, this latest film gives us an entirely different story. The film follows a family who have moved out to a rural Oregon home after a family member has gone missing. The childhood home, however, becomes the backdrop of a harrowing nightmare as the family is attacked by a mysterious creature. And what begins as a survival story shifts focus as the father undergoes a disturbing and irreversible transformation. This week we're talking about Wolfman. What were you all expecting going into this one?

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Well, I'll say I don't know why I always assume the worst when I hear of a remake, reboot, or re-imagining of a classic horror movie or even franchise. I think maybe it's because when they announced that Universal was going to reboot the Universal Monster movies and then gave us that hot stinking pile of crap that was The Mummy 2017 with Tom Cruise. I guess I just didn't see a lot of hope in it all. You know what I mean? And needless to say, I just was not bought into this movie going into it. I gotta be honest with you. I didn't see a lot of potential in the movie based on the track record of what we got recently. I did see that the early reviews were fairly positive, which did give me like a tad bit of hope. I just wasn't really sure what to expect from this story, like the trailer that we got and what I minimally read about this film. It didn't seem like a complete remake and more of a reimagining of the classic. So it's hard to tell. The trailer luckily didn't really give you a lot, and so I feel like it left you curious on how the story was going to feel.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, that's so interesting that you bring that up, Sean. Listen, you put Tom Cruise in a movie and I realized it was the mummy. It didn't even strike me. It really did not strike me as a modern reimagining of a universal monster. Because in my mind, I was thinking about the mummy with Brendan Frazier. Which technically, yeah, it's a remake of the mummy. But because they're so action-adventury and not horror-y, I just wrote it off completely. I'm like, what the fuck is Tom Cruise doing in where uh Brendan Fraser should be? Didn't like that. But going into this one, again, I don't have that emotional attachment to Wolfman. I enjoyed the original film, but it was the only one in that entire franchise I've ever seen. So I appreciate it for what it is. But I also heard that Lee Wynell did an incredible job with Invisible Man, and I didn't see that. I know that was everybody's well, not everybody's, but many people's last theatrical experience before the pandemic. So I think that movie went out with a bang and really like stuck in people's minds. I still want to see it. I'm dying to see it. I really thought I was gonna try to get it in before watching this movie tonight, but hearing how successful he was and then reading a little bit about what his approach was going to be. He had a really great interview in Fangoria going into the movie and talking about some of his inspirations and just how he viewed uh what the story would be and what his approach to it would be. I didn't go into this thinking it was gonna be an incredible movie by any means, but I did go into it expecting it to be a really solid film.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

When we get around to remaking the mummy, just use Bubba Hotap in 4K. Problem solved.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Absolutely fucking not.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Nope. No way. Never, ever. Never say that again. Invisible Man is fantastic, actually. Thank you for reminding me that he did that because I forgot. Mostly because I associate him with one movie more than the other, and that's one that I don't want to bring up right now because it's not so I associate with him more than that movie with Saw. Okay. No, right. So if it's not Saw, it's the one that I don't want to bring up.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

I also just saw Saw the musical, and the entire time I was thinking about the fact that I was gonna be seeing Wolfman soon. I'm like, oh, look at this guy playing Adam. It was a very comical way.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

You're right, you're right. Well, that is incredible timing. Yeah, I I didn't realize that he was he did Invisible Man. Fantastic movie. I think my expectations going into this one was pretty timid. I didn't expect much. I thought Blockbuster, I'm not very familiar with Wolfman in general as a franchise. I just watched the original in preparation for our pod, but I figured from the little bit that I remembered from the trailer, because I'm trying to kind of shift away from watching trailers, they reveal way too much, guys. It's getting out of hand. I remembered a little bit and instantly thought, well, this definitely doesn't feel like it's going to be anything like the original already. So let's like scrap that. It could have just been a coincidence that it's called Wolfman, and I would have never associated it with the franchise or even Universal Monsters specifically. Cast is great. Figured, okay, so that means decent performances. Seems like a simple enough film. But everything else, I didn't really have much going into it, no expectations. I didn't even think it would be that scary. I figured best to keep it that way just so that I can go in a little bit blind and hopefully be pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

The trailer was weird. I think seeing it gave me feelings of Jurassic Park a little bit. Yes. So it seemed like maybe this is gonna be more of a thriller than it is a horror movie. So it was a little bit difficult to really figure out what tone they were gonna go for. I wasn't sure that they were really gonna take it seriously.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

That tone was gonna be something that would be really interesting to dive into. And it's that tone that really put me on an emotional roller coaster in this movie because we think about his inspiration and his being Lee Wynell's. He was thinking a lot about obviously the pandemic and lockdown. This script, the first draft of it, was written in 2020. So there's a lot of feelings of like isolation and confinement there, a lot of confrontation of illness, and the departure from traditional werewolf lore in this film is something to behold. But specifically thinking about that darker tone, the trailer did not indicate to me enough, and this is a good thing, how much I was going to be invested in these characters and how much it was gonna pull in my heartstrings, which was surprising. I'm not saying I was bawling during this movie by any means, but there are certain dynamics between our core characters that actually hit me harder. And maybe it's just because I'm just thinking about a more vulnerable thing. I'm thinking about even the comparison to the fly and terminal illness. I was thinking about, you know, one of the last days I saw my grandmother in this movie, and that was really tough. It was really surprising to me that we got a fun wolf movie, we got a fun werewolf movie, but we also got something that I think really does a good job of standing on its own two legs, no pun intended, with respect to werewolf lore, but also just like the emotions that it takes you on, because this is a very different experience from the original.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

It is a different experience for sure. I also agree it's like kind of an emotional roller coaster when you're watching the movie. I I think for me, the first thing that is gonna stand out to you is the scenery and the overall landscape of this movie or in this movie. Some of the shots of just the wilderness are truly breathtaking and really beautiful to look at. And I think the the eeriness doesn't stop at the foothills of those misty mountains that we're seeing. I I feel like the lighting in this movie also really adds to this eerie, foreboding feeling that this movie gives you.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

This movie is absolutely just reinforcing my belief that I need to live in the Pacific Northwest at some point.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

It's gorgeous. It's so nice to look at in the light or in the dark here. And it it gives this movie such an intensity, and that combined with the score, it's just giving you like this feeling of splendor, but with a mystery. And I don't know that I was expecting a feeling of mystery here. I thought it was going to be really easy to figure out. And we're moving through, we're looking at these visuals. The score will hit, whether it's a piano or whatever, and it just feels very somber and very serious, and very much like there's something deeper here. I think that's the feeling that it really gives. And it's the combination of legit just sound and visuals without even action taking place.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I think I definitely felt the tension and suspense, especially early on. I saw this in IMAX and I felt like the sound design was insane. At times, I'll be honest, a little too much for me. I I felt like perhaps on the visual aspect of things, it's an incredible film to watch in IMAX. For the sound design specifically, maybe a little bit too much and very distracting. I felt like it almost took me out of the movie several times. Felt like, oh, this is a lot. Very difficult for me to even really to appreciate the score, like you were saying, Mac. So maybe that's unfortunate for me and my viewing, I suppose, the way that I decided to watch this film. But I would say that I love that you guys found a lot of emotion and a lot of depth in this film. For me, I felt a little bit of the opposite, I'll be honest. I I think that I appreciated a lot of the performances, but it wasn't hitting the emotional beats that I had hoped. And I'm actually walked into this theater feeling a little emotional as is. So I was vulnerable. I was ready for the pickings, you know, the waterworks and the stuff, but it just didn't really do that for me. However, I think that the main character, Christopher Abbott, he played such an incredible role as Blake, our main character. He, his performance was amazing. And I think that he is so expressive in his eyes. I think that if there was something that surprised me the most about this film, it would be that. It'd be his performance as a whole was maybe the biggest emotional piece for me because he's expressive with his eyes. His connection with his castmates was incredible. You mentioned how this kind of made you think of like terminal illness, Chris. And I think that I, as you were saying it, I was thinking, man, you know what? You're right. That's something that I didn't really like let myself feel completely that he sold right there and so well. But if I were to say a disappointment and a counterpoint to that, actually, and Christopher Abbott's performance is actually Julia Garner's, another actress that I love and I think is so fantastic. But I felt like something was missing. I f wanted to really dive a little bit deeper. I wanted to get to know her more. I thought that she was so insanely cold and with reason, because that's the point, but she didn't really get to shine in the way that Christopher Abbott did. She didn't get to really like be the complete polar opposite to him in particular scenes where I was hoping that we would get that. So I appreciate how it's written. We typically see these parental roles reversed, right? We typically see the father that's very cold and the mother that's very warm. And in this case, that is flipped. So your expectations are flipped as well. But I feel like we spent a lot of time with one particular character, our main character, and for like the first half of the film, but I need to kind of shift my expectations and fall in love with everyone as a whole, and that just never happens, not even towards the very end.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

You know what's missing, Binks? Chemistry. It's the chemistry, and I did not feel it. It's interesting because I felt the same exact thing. It's just how is every character performed really well, and yet there's something between them it's missing. And I I mentioned earlier, like there's a dynamic between some of these characters. I 100% do agree with that, and I'll stand by that. In the spoiler zone, I'll get to unpack exactly what I mean. But I think a lot of that dynamic is what's written on the page versus what translates on screen. And that is something with her specifically. I love the character and the journey that her character goes on, but there's something there that doesn't quite click. And it doesn't ruin the movie for me in any way, but it was surprising to see for sure. It also surprises me more than that that you didn't like the sound design or that it was overwhelming for you. Maybe it's because I can't hear as well as you, but I thought it was perfect. I was literally like, this is why I fucking come to IMAX.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

Well, yeah, no, the sound design was crazy because even if I think even if you weren't in IMAX, because I wasn't in IMAX, and I could like I I felt like I could hear shit happening all around me. Like I legit turned around at one point thinking somebody was shuffling behind me. Like it got me.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

And one moment. Like they whoever did the sound mixing for this movie did a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

They really did. And this is exactly what Nicole Kidman is talking about when she says we come to this place for magic.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

Now I see it or hear it.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I'm also surprised though with how this movie handles werewolves as a whole. This is something that is a departure from what we've seen historically. And man, I don't know that I've ever watched a werewolf movie besides like ginger snaps, where I've actually given a fuck about the main character. This did it.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

So I wrote down, as my surprise, the story and the backstory here actually feel worth it. It feels like they add to the film. It's a fairly simple yarn, but you need to feel something for these characters. And I think that went a really long way.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

Yeah, for sure. I think it is surprising the story that we got. It feels different. I do think for me, a little disappointing with the lack of the whole werewolf lore. I think we just didn't get enough of the lore of it all. And I do have some disappointments with the wolf man itself, which we'll get into later in the episode in the spoiler zone when we can really break down like characters and different things like that. I was also actually surprised to learn that Ryan Gosling was cast as the original lead in this film as Blake Lovell, and sadly dropped out of the project. I think there was some scheduling conflicts and things like that. But originally, when this was being developed in 2020, he was going to be the lead role in this movie, and it wasn't until a couple of years ago that he had to drop off. And Lee One L was not even the original director for this movie, it was Derek C in France. They both had to drop out. So I wonder what this movie would have been if both of them did not drop out of the project. Would it have been a completely different film? I don't know. Would the lead character feel any different? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Well, Christopher Abbott already looks like he would be a werewolf. So I don't even know if I could picture Ryan Gosling in the kind of grotesque manner that we get in this film, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

He was the one who made the original pitch to the studio to remake the movie.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Yeah. He was all about it.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

He's credited as a executive producer on it still.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

And I love that. And I'm not go off King. He's incredible. He really is. But don't sleep on Christopher Abbott, guys. This is just the start. He's been in a couple of amazing things lately.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

But he's gonna do great. And I thought he was really, really good here for sure. And I think that's also surprising because I know him in such he's in the show Girls, where I obviously discovered Adam Driver because I discovered him and I'm an OG fan. But anyways, he's so lovable, kind of, and like a little bit of a you hate him but you love him kind of character, right? So he's got that face, it's a warm, inviting demeanor about him. And then he is so frightening in this film. And I think in general, this film is just so scary. It it surprised me. I I actually was spooked a couple of times. I think it builds some good tension. I'd say that for the first time in a bit, I can confidently say, like, yeah, I got spooked. There's a couple scenes here that impressed me with how well they got me. Others that I thought, damn, I wish that they had changed just a little bit or didn't reveal too much to make it even scarier. There's potential. But I saw this with one of my best friends. She was like perched like a cat on the chair, just real terrified. So that was fun. And yeah, you don't expect that from a film like this. I certainly didn't.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

When was the last time you were scared of a werewolf? If ever. Probably never. And that's the reality of it. There's a lot in this movie that is just excellent atmosphere, great tension, and enough to make you go, oh. And it's saying something because it's not even that the stakes are super high in some places. This is easily a movie where I think you could walk in and have a certain expectation about who's gonna make it to the end, if anyone, will people live, will people die? This is one where I think you could kind of easily sift through that if you really wanted to. But it doesn't stop the actual effectiveness of that tension. Even if I didn't feel like certain things were at risk, I still felt like, damn, this is a terrible situation. And what's scarier to me though is the mortality of it all. It's the way that Lee Wynnell actually worked in that influence from the thing and the fly. And to think about watching someone you love become something completely different, and to feel yourself becoming different and watching those closest to you respond to that, it's fucking terrible.

SPEAKER_04 19:52

Yeah, for me, it's like the fresh approach to the storytelling and the overall transformation process that really adds to that because I think it's done in a way that we really haven't explored a lot before, if at all. And I think it helps to build the suspense throughout this whole entire movie. There is this foreboding feeling that you get throughout much of the film. I feel like they also definitely threw in some jump scares, nothing out of the box, and I think that they did kind of sprinkle those in there too. But for me, it was how they built the dread, and how for me it was actually kind of like a slow process of how it uh approached the whole transformation process.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

I like the word dread. I feel that it's very applicable, but I didn't feel it myself. I felt like I was observing that sense of dread and impending doom in the characters. I don't think I was really too worried personally. I don't think I was really scared. I think there were a lot of things that were predictable, some of it because of the trailer, but otherwise, it's not that they had to get these like really sharp, quick things out there to to spook you. It's like you mentioned, if they're gonna get you, it's gonna be with tension first. And I will give them credit for that work, even though it doesn't get me, nothing really gets me that well anymore. But I think you know, if if you're somebody who's prone to this, this movie is gonna grind you up a little bit before it lets you get there.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Mm-hmm. And I'm so glad it does that. And you know, you think about the original Wolfman, Sean and I just had this discussion last week. There isn't really a lot in that movie to sink your teeth into and be scared of. And oh man, I'm I know I mentioned earlier about how I rarely ever care for the characters in these werewolves movies. Lon Cheney Jr., bless his heart. I don't give a fuck about his character. I really don't. Until he becomes a wolf, I don't give a fuck. But this one, we have to just stop and appreciate. Obviously, Leo Winnell did incredible things modernizing the invisible man. But for this, to take something as tried and true as werewolves, to take something so familiar that we've all Scene and be able to do something different. And not just different for the sake of werewolf lore, but to reimagine a classic monster from Universal and tell us not an unfamiliar story, but to do so in a way that feels very unique and also very personal at the same time. I don't think they could have gone a better direction for me personally. Could the movie have been executed better for sure? But in spirit with a vision that they had for this film, 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Yeah, I think the reimagining part is the important piece right there. I think the reimagining of the original 1941 classic, and because specifically they did change it up to tell their own story, it feels like an original and emotional take on this story of the wolfman, which was definitely, I think, something a little bit different. You know, we have the 1941 classic, we have the Anthony Hopkins, Finicio del Toro Wolfman, and that explored more into the original concept of the film and playing on like the psychology of it all, right? And and this one really plays into the horrors of the emotions and the emotional toll that it takes on the family and the transformation process and this really dark version of what we've gotten in the past.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

But the thing with that is I wish that it was coupled with just a slightly better script or different casting to really drive that home. Because ultimately, for me, what's executed and what's on screen is something that felt a little bit generic. Like original in the sense that it's not what I expected in a good way, because it's definitely a reimagining, it's definitely borderline, like nothing really to do with maybe the original Wolfman or just in general, anything that you might expect per se, right? It it feels removed from that franchise for someone who is not as familiar with the franchise, like obviously you, Sean. But so that part's original. But then when you look at the actual plot itself and even how it's executed and written, it feels very generic, almost safe, feels a little repetitive at times too. So I think that on one hand I can give it its flowers, but on the other, it feels like a lot of other films that feel comfortable, and that's okay. Sometimes you need just a simple, comfy, not a big plot twist type of film. And I think that that's what I needed today, sure. But uh would have been interesting to maybe get a little bit of fun, you know, keep me a little bit on my toes, not just for the scary bits, but the plot itself.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

I have to give it credit for being a tragedy though, because too many films can are just adventure films. And we don't need a thousand adventure films where a swashbuckling hero saves the day. Sometimes you need a proper tragedy, and I enjoy the fact that they stuck to that. I think it was something different. It was not really what I expected, especially when I saw the trailer, and that made it stand out a little bit. Obviously, it's not fully original. We've got however many movies ahead of it. We've also got ten times more werewolf movies between the original Wolfman and this, but I think they were able to do something quite different. We're gonna talk about the werewolf, obviously, later, when we can really spoil things, we're gonna have some thoughts. I I hope. I hope I'm not the only one who had thoughts here about the werewolf. So, but they did things that were more interesting than that. I think if you go back to like werewolf lore for a large period of time, it was these people who had to like sell their soul for whatever reason. And then I remember reading in high school about this kind of stuff where the toll would be taken upon their family, and they, of course, did not realize that, and they were the ones to perpetrate it. And so I think it's interesting here when you have a family getting into a situation like this because there's that danger, no other movie would bother even going there or care about it. This one's like, no, that's my lens, that's my focus for this entire film, is this family dynamic. And I think that also made it stand out from pretty much every other werewolf movie in the last couple decades.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

And it's that lasting impact on that family dynamic that I think really makes it-I wouldn't say the strongest ending we've seen in any horror movie, but an appropriate ending for this movie in particular. There's resolution, sure, but it also has the question of what comes next. Could there be a continuation of this story? And it's not something where I want a sequel from Wolfman by any stretch of the imagination, but the biggest feeling I had from the end of this movie is okay, this is a little cheesy, but it is poetic.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

I would love for them not to make a sequel and focus on other classic monsters and redo them to a caliber close to this. I think that would be more interesting than making another one. That there's just so much material out there where you can really give it a proper treatment. When we got to the end of this, I was concerned that things were gonna get really cheesy. And it didn't really go that route. I think they did a good job of mirroring the first half of the movie, you know, doing a little reversal here and there, changing things up, making you feel your feels. I was actually mad at the movie for something it chose to do, and then I realized, no, that's what had to happen. They had to do this, and I was supposed to be mad. I was supposed to be sad, I was supposed to be feeling something. So I think it wasn't the ideal ending, of course. We all like a certain thing, but it was, I think, a really effective ending and a really fitting ending, like you mentioned, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah, I agree, and I think to your point about the film being a tragedy, it's effective in executing a tragedy with the way that it's ending is placed, the way that it's filmed, shot, like the sound design for that particular moment too is fantastic. Like, I think it's a beautiful moment for sure. I just wish that there were other pieces that I cannot wait to get into that were changed so that I can really feel the depth of that because clearly it was effective for all of you, but I think on a technical level it worked perfectly, but on an emotional level and performance-wise and all of that, it just didn't quite stick that landing. So it's kind of like it it landed, but it broke a knee a little bit, you know, a little wobbly at the end as a whole. As a whole.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Yeah, I think y'all touched on most of the points with this ending. This ending is sad, it's tragic, it's poetic in a way. I think it ends on kind of a beautiful note, as sad and depressing as the story really is. And it there's a lot of emotion running through this film, I think all the way through to the final moments and the final pieces of dialogue and shots that we get. So it's a sad ending for sure, but it's also kind of a beautiful ending.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Well, we'll see just how beautiful of a scoring we're gonna have for this film. But before we start rating it, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 29:10

You know, when you're watching a movie about someone turning into a beast, or in this case a werewolf or wolfman, you gotta be expecting the gore to hit harder than a silver bullet, right? Like you really gotta expect some really good gore. And although we see some action, some flesh eating, some finger food goodness, the gore still finds a way to feel almost tame, maybe sanitized in a way, just it lacked the visceral punch that I feel like a werewolf flick needs to really thrive. And so for me, it's a low gore score.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Well, we do get sight of a deer from a distance that isn't too pleasant, but luckily that's just it.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Wolfman from 2025. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 30:01

I walked into the theater this evening and I was ready to be distracted. My favorite director, one of my favorite directors, David Lynch, just passed away yesterday. And I was very emotional, very emotional, very distraught, as many in the art world, film world, etc., are about this loss. And so I was like, you know, it's okay. I've got Wolfman. It's gonna be a fun time, it's gonna be a good time, I'll be distracted. And it was that effective, phenomenal timing for sure. But here's the thing. On the one hand, it did distract me, and it was an easy watch where I could just unplug, immerse myself, and have a good time. But on the other, it did feel a little vanilla and it felt a little too safe for me. So where I was feeling scared, sure. On the other hand, I just wasn't really bought into these characters and their performances together, but individually differently. And I love how you mentioned that, Chris, because I couldn't agree more. As a whole, as an ensemble, it just didn't quite connect. And a majority of the film is them as an ensemble. So unfortunately, there's that part.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

The ensemble was not ensembling.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

The ensemble was not ensembling, yes. We're gonna we're gonna keep that as a thing because it definitely does, it fits and it applies to this film, at least to me it does. There's just a lot of things in this film that didn't land a hundred percent. It I mentioned the chemistry and the performances. There were a couple things that were giving a little bit of James Wan flashback, which tracks considering who directed this a little bit. Not quite, but just enough. But at the same time, we've got great cinematography, VFX. I keep talking about Christopher Abbott, but honestly, like he blew my mind. I thought he really carried the film. I just don't think that they carried it enough to cross the slash territory. Maybe close enough on a rainy, cozy day, I might be swayed, but until then, I'm gonna have to say it's a hack.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

I'm utterly shocked. Not based on your earlier comments, just in life in general by this. So I think this was surprisingly well done. I think my expectations were for something a lot cheesier, but this the story is straightforward. We've got a bit of tension, not too much. We've got just one of the most gorgeous settings on earth, a fantastic score, and like we've mentioned, solid acting. And if you're a werewolf genre fan and you like the best werewolf transformation ever, the one from an American werewolf in London, I think you're gonna thoroughly enjoy the building, painful, lycanthropic transition we're served here, just like Sean mentioned. It's just all around a good time. It's not about fun in this movie necessarily. It's about good storytelling, it's about good characters, even if even if they don't have chemistry, and it's about being gruesome. I just think it's a slash.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

Well, let me start by saying that Wolfman 2025 had me howling in delight, at least at first. I think that the cinematography was a feast for the eyes. The way the lighting played with shadows, creating an eerie sense of mystery in the film, it really felt like the moonlight itself was creeping across the screen in some moments. There's these amazing shots of the desolate landscapes and misty forests that really transport you into this isolated world of the wolf man. And it really served the right amount of dread in this movie. There was a lot of stuff that this movie has going for it. The way this movie switched between perspectives was really creative and seamless and helped to pull you into this emotional turmoil of the family as they witnessed a slow descent into monstrosity. I think very well done in that regard. The gradual transformation process was perfectly shown in stages throughout the film until the final reveal. But for me, and maybe Binks and I are gonna align in this, I think that the cinematic flair with all of that flair, Wolfman 2025 felt like it was all bark and really no bite. And I'll say there's just a lack of kills, and it left me wanting a bit more out of this movie. The lore is another area where I felt the film was really lacking, or I don't know, was all of the lore just that paragraph they put on the screen in the very beginning of the film? There just wasn't a lot that it wanted to give you in that regard. But a werewolf movie without a mournful, spine-chilling howl to the moon feels almost blasphemous. And at the end of the day, this movie had all of the trimmings of a top-tier horror film, but forgot the main course. I think the visuals and the transformation were great appetizers to that meal. I think the lack of gore and for me, the creature design and classic werewolf tropes left me a little bit upset. So while this movie had potential, it just didn't claw its way into my heart. I'll put it that way. And if you're gonna make a remake or a reboot or reimagine a classic, you just have to do it right. And unfortunately, it's a beast that kind of fell short of its prey in some ways, and it's enough, despite how beautiful the movie looked, to make it a hack for me.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well, listen, this movie for me needed to do three things. It needed to be fun, it needed to be different from all the other werewolf material we have, and it needed to not look like the absolute horrific dog shit werewolf design that got bullied out of the Wolfman photo op at Halloween Horror Nights in 2024. If it could do those three things, I was fucking coasting towards slash territory. We see so often in horror movies or really just any kind of werewolf content, like anthropy is often seen as a curse. Okay. And it's the curse by the moon, etc. But those people are never that excited about being werewolves, but it also doesn't seem so bad. You know, you just have one or three nights a month, and it's like a little bit of a bender, and then you're back onto your normal life. This movie though raises the sick. This movie gives a great reason to not be fucking jazzed or excited about it, and it shows something that I feel for the first time watching werewolf content. Oh, this is not just a curse, this is a death sentence. This is horrific. Listen, I'm not super beholden to werewolves past, I'm more of a vampire fan myself. So this movie in this property could really honestly go up for me, and this did just that because it didn't just deliver a horror movie that paved its own path with different approaches to the lore that make it interesting, it also gave a really incredible emotional performance from Christopher Abbott, and it really dug at something much deeper and hinted at something beneath the surface of on its face lycanthropy. So for the depths that it showed, yes, this is absolutely probably just me falling in love with potential, Wolfman 2025 got a slash. And with that, Wolfman has earned two hacks and two slashes. Now, the movie is out in theaters this weekend. If you're checking out this episode, post this movie's theatrical run. Check the link in the show notes to see where you can find it right now. Then join our Discord, hop into the conversation there. Now, when we return from our break, we have so much more to dive into. We're gonna look into the werewolf of it all. We're gonna look into the moments for the cast lath chemistry, and we'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

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SPEAKER_00 39:23

Just barely.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Just barely, but still a shorter fucking kill count. With only three kills. It really shouldn't be too difficult to sink our teeth into them.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Is it the implication that the original hiker counts in this body count to c to keep it even?

SPEAKER_04 39:41

Maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

I mean, that's a fucking stretch.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

It's a stretch. I guess we could. I guess we could try to throw that dog a bone, if you will, you know. But nonetheless, let's talk about them. Let's just get into them, the three of them. What do y'all think about these kills?

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Well, I guess we can start with maybe the last one, which is Blake's, and what a shame. Because ultimately, yeah, I think I would have hated, and maybe we all would have hated if somehow it was like a quest for a cure and all that. Mac, you mentioned like adventure films. We've seen enough of them, and we don't want any of that, right? And it kind of ruins the whole point, the weight of what Charlotte has to do, the fact that she's gonna traumatize her kid, protecting her kid, blah blah blah. But damn, my boy had to really go down. It sucks, it's unfortunate, it's really, really sad.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Yeah, you know, when they're originally walking through the forest in the beginning and he starts talking about like the death cat mushrooms, I'm like, don't fucking tell me this motherfucker's gonna find some wolf spane. The wolf spin is gonna be what cures him in the end.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

That'd be so great. That'd be so great. No, that would be terrible. If he cured himself with Wolf Spain, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

But I do think looking at the original film, and we had the poem that was constantly recited and talked about, you know, even a man that's pure of heart, right? Blake was fucking pure of heart. Really great, upstanding guy all around. The trauma of Charlotte not wanting to shoot, and then Ginger saying he wants it to be over, you know, almost saying, Hey, fucking put him out of his misery, but also maybe he just wants to be cured, right? He just wants some peace with his family. For her to be staring down that werewolf of her former husband, but then to still have the reaction to actually fire off an effective shot and then just be left with that. You know, there's this child that she's not as close to because she is the parent who's working more while Blake is home with Ginger. How devastating of a time are they gonna have returning to their home in the city?

SPEAKER_04 41:50

That's gonna be tough. The aftermath of this whole scenario is gonna be pretty tough because yes, the bond that the the father and the daughter, you know, Ginger and Blake have was really strong. You could tell it's very heartfelt little father-daughter relationship, and for that to be gone now, it's gonna be tough.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Yeah. I'd like to give an honorary death to perhaps the death of their what's it called, like a marriage bed. Because you know those people are just not canoodling anymore.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Nah, they ain't fucking. No, they're not. They're not. They uh and they haven't been for quite some motherfucking time.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

They don't even have lunch together anymore. They definitely don't get there.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

They don't. There was like four humans could have fit in between the space of them sitting on those stairs, okay? I felt like what is it, that ice wall in Game of Thrones or whatever you want to call it? Like that was there between them. It was intense.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

They were basically on Love is Blind.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah. Wow. And they did not pick each other. They were in the pods. It was real tough. What an odd casting. I don't know. I love them as individual actors, but when I saw that they were casted together, I was like, oh, okay, so maybe they're like brother and sister in the trailer. This is what I thought. I didn't even realize they were married. LOL.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

It really is just their dynamic together because again, I love her performance as Charlotte. I love his performance as Blake, but them as a couple is just it's so bizarre. I don't know that I've ever felt that in it so strongly in a movie. Usually it's because the chemistry is off because one of them fucking sucks. They're both great. I really enjoyed them.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Yeah. How can you be both doing well in your respective roles, but also not giving the chemistry of the characters that you're playing together as a relationship? It's tough. That's a tough one, and that's weird. And it you don't always get that, and you don't often get that.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Or are they just really, really good at their jobs because these characters are he headed to divorce. That's true. And they nailed it. I think that's potentially part of what you're feeling is that they want you to feel like these people don't belong together.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

But here's the thing. Then we fast forward to her saying that she loves him by the deathbed. And I was like, God, this is Julia Garner is struggling. Julia Gardner is struggling her ass off because even she doesn't even believe it. That was tough. No wonder they didn't even understand what the other one was saying. Because even if they both were coherent and he was still normal, I don't think I would have understood what she was trying to tell me.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Jokes on us. That's what she has sounded like to him their entire marriage.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Absolutely. I believe it. I believe it. No, it was real bad. It was real bad.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

This is the the real horror story of communication breakdown and the horrors of divorce.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Boy, oh boy. Maybe I should talk to my parents after this, you know, get really unpack that whole thing. Well, they've been divorced multiple times. Anyways, this is not time for me to air their laundry. Whose laundry will I air? The dads, a little bit. So that kill was so freaking obvious. I saw it coming a mile away.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

It was very predictable.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

It was so frickin' predictable. That being said, though, I did find it very like effective in terms of his response, his discovery of seeing the wrist. I almost liked that at that point he's very in his transition of being a werewolf. Like he's not even able to communicate. He's like, that's like the last piece almost by then. So he really has to evoke some kind of physical reaction to discovering that that's his dad. And again, that's why I said he's so expressive in his eyes because when he's just staring at the wrist and then up and just dismisses his wife, just walks away. I was like, oof, that's that hurt a little bit. Like, damn.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Yeah. He knows what he's what's in store for him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

That reveal predictable or not is one thing, but watching the flesh drop out of Blake's mouth after biting the neck of his own werewolf father and the way it splatters on the floor was great. And I just want to point out that this is the second time we have seen this shit now. This is literally the second time that I've seen this this year, this exact same scenario of biting someone's neck and letting it drop out on the floor.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Yeah, we've also, okay, in the substance, we saw someone coughing up a titty, and here he's coughing up a finger.

SPEAKER_04 46:17

Ooh, yeah, that's true. Finger food, that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Yeah. We saw that in Neon Demon, though. So take that and do with it what you will. Gosh, well, if you've taken that kill, I guess there's only one left, and that's the kill that could have been incredibly explosive and instead was kind of whimpering. Quite unfortunately, the first big kill of the film, somebody gets pulled away, swatted away something in like a little belly pat. It's like a little goodbye now only dreams. And that was so unfortunate. Later on, we see sure, later on, there's an arm over here and this over there. Come on. Nice. Why not just show us all that in the moment when you're supposed to be getting us hype? Give us more.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

And here's the sad part. That kill was revealed in the trailer. So, in reality, we really just got two kills that were surprising. That one we s saw in the trailer. That's like the one thing I remembered from the freaking trailer. That's why I'm no longer doing them. I'm gonna try my best to avoid them. But it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

I actually won't though want to highlight that moment. Because yes, we could have gotten and we should have gotten more from the kill, but the exact thing that I was thinking in the moment that he was dragged away was holy shit, I love that so far we're not getting a really clean look at the wolf. Because that was a lot where they could have absolutely fucking just given it up in the very beginning. We had some moments where kind of lingered for a few fractions of seconds, just enough so that you can see it's like a humanoid form, some hair, some clothing, but that's about it. And I just remember thinking, man, I really hope this is not that fucking Halloween Horror Nights wolf. Did you all see the photo of this?

SPEAKER_04 48:05

Yeah, yeah. I've seen the photo. It's trollish.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

It is trollish, and I guess it's because it's rubber mask version of this design. I was really nervous about this. Granted, we see the wolf man. I really enjoy the design of the original. I think he looks like a cute little guy. He's a buffalo guy, but he's cute. Most werewolves are kind of problematic, and like sometimes they look too dog, sometimes they look too man. I thought this was an interesting hybrid that's more man than wolf, but not in a way that upset me or uh made it worse for me.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

It felt incomplete. Give it a little bit of discredit for there was just something imbalanced between the hair and the skin.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

It was just the wolf face, you know?

SPEAKER_02 48:50

I loved the wolf face, especially when we get full wolf face. That was great. I think perhaps there should have been no hair, like all of it falls out, or it's something more wolf-like. It doesn't have to be a full coat, it doesn't have to look like a wolf costume. I think the fact that it was long and scraggly and sweaty is what bothers me the most. Long and scraggly and sweaty.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

If the word scraggly for me is really where you fucking lost me. But yes, so the design of the wolf, I'm a fan of it. I'm more of a fan of the wolf sentences that we get, which goes into, I think, what is really my absolute favorite part of this whole production, which was the sound design. Again, hey, I can't hear as well as Bink, so it wasn't overwhelming for me. Maybe it topped out as just enough. This is what I probably should have in a basic theater. I can actually understand what the fuck is going on. But the fact that we have him hearing these loud ass thuds just to see that it was a spider upstairs.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

Oh, so good. You can't be expecting that, right? Like no one was expecting that.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Yeah. It makes so much sense though. And yeah, it kind of catches you off guard because you don't immediately see him get hurt in any way by this wolf, only to find out later that he'd gotten slightly scratched. So there's that aspect of it. But man, this is the first time in a long time where I'm like, fuck, seeing a movie in IMAX is worth it, specifically because of this experience. Because in that deer blind in the beginning, I could feel like I was with them, surrounded on all sides by this fucking creature and the breath that was coming up.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

It was particular moments in which the sound design was unbearable. In particular, the literal first scene of those ants, where I was like, oh, this is not the this is not the start that I wanted in the film, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

You mean the little ants banding together to take down the wasp, just as Blake's family was gonna have to band together to take down his dad?

SPEAKER_01 50:48

And then he just ended up taking down his dad by himself, and then they ended up shooting him in the head?

SPEAKER_00 50:53

They all banded together. To be clear, they all banded together. It was a team effort.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

That little girl didn't do Jack, but that's neither here nor there. We'll get to ginger in a minute, trust that. Anywho, the point is that the sound design was really unbearable in certain points, fantastic in others. The spider scene, for sure, effective, incredible. My favorite part of that particular scene in the production side of things was the camera work. And they did it in that particular moment. They did it also when he transforms outside where the hair is revealed. When it's like slightly off-kilter, it was so incredible how it's shifts perfectly with the way that he is moving. The choreography on that was incredible. It felt so off-kiltered. It felt uneasy, felt like I was being transformed into something. Just loved it. I loved it. I felt like I was on a ride. So I I like that they integrated that two times, probably a couple more times that I didn't realize right now, but loved it for sure. And I think in general, the cinematography is so great. And that's why watching an IMAX was incredible, because even when at the beginning, when he's just staring at the trees, everything feels eternal. It feels so long. And when we are now tapped into his senses and he's looking at those same trees, but when this technicolor and this blues and purples and pinks, it's beautiful, but it's also scary because we know that when we're not in werewolf form as a viewer, that shit's frightening as hell.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Yeah. I'm sorry, can we also talk about the moment where he's in the barn with them? They don't see him and he sees them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

So yes, but I wish that we didn't see that. I wish that it had stayed as us as the viewer, because that's the part where I thought it was super scary. And it would have been even scarier if we never saw that he was there. There that's one of those moments where it's nice to not be given everything, where like less is more. Because if we had just stayed in that dark and all of a sudden he was revealed there, just from the perspective of us as humans, right? Quote unquote, I think that I would have lost my mind. But the fact that he we are going continuously back and forth with his senses and Charlotte's perspective and Ginger's, it also felt like a little bit like a video game. I'm not gonna front. It felt like I clicked a switch and now I'm switching characters. And too much of it felt a little bit of an overkill.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

I didn't mind that at all, though, because I feel like if we had been sitting there waiting in the darkness, then it I just would have known that it was gonna come. Maybe because those kind of scares are never effective for me in the first place. So I thought at least this time there's something interesting to look at, there's something cool to see here. Because there's also this part in this point in the movie where he does not feel like the menacing monster that's trying to eat his family. He feels like the dog who's like trying to go to the front door when we're trying to leave the house. He's like, I'm coming with you for the ride, right? That's what he felt like in that moment. Granted, I think he gets a little bit more violent, he gets a little more intense, especially at this point where we get what was a happy accident of being a saw nod with him stepping in a bear trap and then chewing off his own foot. There you go, leave one out. He becomes more vicious and violent to that point, but I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed being able to shift between their perspectives because we often see in werewolf movies. I think we've gotten some from the POV of a werewolf, but this was the first one that I've seen in a long time that gives us such a great blend.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

Gosh, every time we get the creature's point of view, they just crank up the FOV. They're like, give me like 130 degrees, invert it, and apply like a color filter, and we're done. The thing that they nailed here when they gave us his vision was the light. That was so perfect because animals just have better night vision than we do. For whatever reason, we just don't need to see at night. That's just not how we evolved. And so when we first flip into that, I was like, oh gosh, they're doing that whole creatures point of view thing. But then you realize that there's certain colors that are muted because canines don't need to see them or whatever. They just evolved without that. And then we start to see the light glimmering in, and it's when it hits her eyes and her earring, like those two places were just shining like flashlights. I was like, this is such a great choice. For a second, I was like, is the earring silver? Are we gonna get the whole silver thing? Is that what's gonna go on here? But no, it was just the light reflecting, and we see that in the later scenes as well. Everything's lighting up because he doesn't have human vision anymore. And you can see all that just a little bit of lighting that might come through the air that we can't pick up on is just like a floodlight to him, and it was so beautifully done.

SPEAKER_00 55:42

Yeah, it's like when you capture a photo of a dog or a cat and you get their little colored eyes. Mmm, that's so good. I'm sorry, I'm just like so fucking stuck on how much I love the werewolf senses. I'm thinking about that moment where she is talking to him and you switch into his perspective, and he's like, I don't understand you. And it's like you just see this like broken translation. We've seen some of this before in cartoons where we have the personification of animals, and animals are talking in English, but then we switch to the human's perspective and then just I just fucking ah, I'm so excited about this. This is like one of my favorite parts of the movie.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

I have to agree with both of you. I do think the progression of his heightened senses as he's transforming, you know, when they show how well he can see, but maybe it's really like how the film switched between the perspectives that we're talking about, and it starts to develop and get worse and worse, and the communication and the overall understanding is getting worse and worse, and his transformation progresses. I I gotta agree, like the way that they showed that to me was fresh, and it was a cool way to tell that story. So I don't know, it's probably a combo of a lot of things to make that come to life, right? You couldn't just say cinematography, storytelling, whatever. It's everything working together to make that happen. And yeah, just that slow transformational process and how you can see every step of this progression, but in that different way than maybe you're used to, I think is one of the stronger parts of the film.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

It's really, I think, one of the most essential components of my favorite scene in the movie. It's right after the spider scene where he passes out and wakes up and goes to find his family. And it's the first time we're introduced to his altered perception, and he can't understand anything, and the voice just ringing through the house is wibbly and wobbly and doesn't make any sense. Everything's morphing, and he's going down to check on his wife and see what's going on and figure out why he can't understand them, and everything looks weird, and it's so disorienting, which is why I think it's also very effective. But then we realize that he can't understand them and he's going through this werewolf aphasia, which is unfortunate. But what's great is from her perspective, we see that he's creeping. Yeah, he is now a certified creeper, and that's just the beginning. So it's only gonna get worse.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Yeah, see, this is exactly why this scene where obviously he just kind of loses his shit, then he's in bed, she brings him the notebook, and he writes that he's dying. This is the shit that really hit me. And there was a lot in there, like obviously you have Ginger's reaction and then her blaming Charlotte. There's a lot to unpack there. But it was specifically that moment because they are facing the external threat of the werewolf, but this whole time they've been facing the ticking time bomb that they didn't even know existed in Blake. And when he's sitting there acknowledging that he can't understand her and that she's trying to talk to him and obviously not getting through to him, and he just looks more and more and more deteriorated, and then Ginger comes over and joins it. This is the moment where you feel like you're so close and yet so far. And that's what made me think of like literally the last day I ever saw my grandmother. And um, it's it was just so incredible to be able to see that kind of moment. And I granted this is like a fucking werewolf movie, right? So it's not that deep, but Christopher Abbott's performance in that moment, uh Charlotte's performance in that moment, to be able to convey that to bring that together. Like, yes, they're physically there, there's a lot of concern there, but they have never been further apart than they are in this moment because he is falling apart and changing and deteriorating. And that's where he comes into the allegory of like terminal illness and just you know, this infection, this changing who he is, that shit absolutely fucking hit me.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

And then, not I mean, maybe to light in the moon just a little bit, is my favorite scene. Is right after that when he gnoms on his arm like a hungry boy.

SPEAKER_03 59:40

Gross.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Listen, I was floored, my jaw on the ground because the way that he just from one second to the scratches at it, just really eats it completely, like it's Trick filet. I was not well. I was stunned, I couldn't even believe it. And then afterwards, he's just standing there, walks away. I was as shocked as Charlotte was. That was insane that scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

I just gotta jump in here and I have another one for later. This is one of my worst parts of the movie. Yes, that was a great part. It was incredible. Eating the flesh, disgusting, chills, uh, bada ba. He's loving it. But how the fuck can she be okay watching him eat his own flesh and be okay turning her back on him?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

Yeah, she just like walks away.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

She's in shock.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

She doesn't walk away from him, but he he walks away. Now, to your point though.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

It felt cash though.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

Yeah, yeah. It felt super cash. It was like, well, that was strange. Ma'am?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:42

She's like, okay, that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

You know, because after that, you're gonna go ahead and put your daughter in a car with him and him in the back seat while you're trying to turn on the engine. Like you're really trusting the fuck out of your ex-husband or whatever husband, ex-husband to be, most likely, after he just devoured his arm.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:03

Yeah, it's it's it is really interesting. That was part of the chemistry for me was like you have all this crazy shit happening, and everyone just seems a little bit too chill about it inside the house. If I'm witnessing some kind of weird shit like this happening, the first thing that's happening is I'm gonna kick your ass down in the basement and lock the fucking door. Have a good time down there, my friend. You ain't fucking up here.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

He's gonna evil dead your ass.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:32

You're getting isolated for sure. But let me tell you, my favorite moment in this film is actually when the story kind of flips the switch. And to me, the most pivotal moment for the viewer, and it's when Charlotte is in the basement calling for help on the radio, and we get that slow reveal that her husband is really sick, she's talking about it and hasn't been able to communicate in this whole time. You're starting to be like, okay, now it makes sense why there's some weird shit going on, because there was that scene earlier where he's working on barricading the door and he's talking to the both of them, and they're just staring at him and not responding, and it's just like that was fucking awkward, but it didn't make sense at the time. You know what I mean? It kind of was a good moment, a good pivotal moment in the story.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

And then he pisses himself.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

And then he pisses himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Yeah, which which was sad, but this is Mark in his territory, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

Who knows? I will say that initially I read a lot of those moments, like, why is there so much silence and staring at each other? Right. Where's there's so much of that? This is such an odd thing, it's so awkward. Like, where's the writing? What are we missing dialogue? Did those pages get ripped?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:45

It's the perspective changing.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

But it's the perspective changing. No, yeah, I d I definitely like how they disarmed that whole belief and made you realize that we're gonna dig a little bit deeper in terms of just language and how that's another sense that gets removed or disconnected, I should say.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

It's either that or I just love the fact that the movie kind of starts and ends almost in the same place. You know what I mean? You have the the opening of him and his dad walking into the valley, and his dad saying, It he never gets old staring at this or looking at this view, and later in life he's trying to describe to his wife that exact kind of feeling, and it comes out a little bit different, right? Saying, you know, it just once you see it, it just makes you feel like everything's gonna be alright, and then you've got them two surviving at the end, no longer with her husband and her father, and they hit the valley, and they have that moment where they just kind of take it all in, and it's that's the beautiful moment of the ending, right there, because you they don't have to say anything, you just know that that was the vibe. Like she knows that she's walking into the valley, and she's like, everything's gonna be alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

Exactly why I mentioned earlier that the ending is poetic. Yeah, again, it's a little cheesy. We get it, but their relationship is not rock solid, nor will it be. There's gonna be a lot of resentment from Charlotte. There's gonna be a lot of resentment for Charlotte from Ginger. Also, Ginger, come on, ginger snaps. We love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:13

Do you love that?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

Man, I I'm even thinking about that opening scene because that opening scene really was my favorite overall. It gives us the background on Blake, it gives us the deer blind, it gives us that first interaction, that first encounter he has with a wolf, and then forgets about what this is until years later. But to see the relationship between Blake and Grady, to see that, and then to know that hey, this man fucking disappears, PS, how fucking long do you have to be disappeared for in Oregon to be legally declared dead? I need to know now. But he Blake later says, Now that I can't speak to him, I suddenly want to. And again, that fucking hits again. A personal nerve for me. These were those moments where the characters were like really dug some shit up, and we get obviously that background on Blake that I think really set me up to just like really care so much for him.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

And his whole conversation with his daughter, apologizing for possibly scarring her, and how he hates the idea that he would have, I think really shows the type of person they're trying to make, someone who understands the the hand that they were dealt by their own father and is not trying to do that. And then, as he states, ultimately, by trying to avoid that, he can end up causing it in the end. And it was very true to life, and it was funny because of course the daughter's like, what on earth are you talking about? But you could tell that there was just a sincerity to his interactions with her. I feel like their relationship on screen, that was great. I was definitely buying that he cared about this kid and wanted to see her do well and be well. And then when you bring in the mother, the wife, it there's a clash. And that's why I feel like it was on purpose. I feel like it was as. Specific chemistry choice because she is this outsider character in the three of them, and it feels that way, that's for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

I agree. Like it's very possible that it could be on purpose, and I would hope that it was on purpose, but and if it was, that maybe kudos to them because that really shone through really well. But I I do think that individually, each one of these characters, to your point, Chris, you've been talking about it this whole episode. Individually, all of these characters you really kind of feel for in one way or another, right? Like on an individual level, you have a lot of empathy for Blake as what he's going through, and how his, you know, uh how his fate comes to an end, and all of that. And you feel for his daughter, and I think you kind of feel for his daughter, you feel for Ginger as you maybe even just think about like the movie and how it ends, and what we've been talking about is that what's the future that that Ginger has with her new situation and losing probably the closest parent that she has. And you have the evolution of Charlotte and all of that, but I I feel like, yeah, individually you kind of feel for these characters, but then when you plop them together, something just doesn't sit right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

Yeah, yeah. You know, and it really is the struggle of Blake to break generational trauma and then just to spawn new generational trauma after going out the same way as old man did.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:23

I know I said it a little bit earlier, but I do feel like I wanted to see a slightly more hairy werewolf or wolfman. I think the lack of hair, this dude looked more like an edgy rock star than a feral lycanthrope, or maybe like a naked mall rat almost. I wanted to get a little bit more of a hairy werewolf or wolfman in this movie. Nothing against him. The face actually was not bad, but it just lacked the overall, it was too human for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

So, but here's the thing: I would rebuttal with the fact that they're pretty honest at the beginning saying that it's like a disease.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

So if it was too much like the traditional lycanthrope that we know in terms of hairiness and all that, more werewolf than fully lycanthrope, I guess, maybe in that front, then I wouldn't believe the fact that it was a disease. Or or rather you know what I'm saying? Rather, I feel like I associate one with the other. If it's a disease, I'm thinking more like, okay, skin and the lesions that they're gonna have, and just like the way that he was scratching his arm and the amount of blood that was coming out, the look of the hands, that kind of stuff fits more with the fact like, okay, it's a disease, but they also think it's like the face of a wolf for sure, versus okay, I'm gonna get like super hairy guy that needs, I don't know, like to be combed every now and then. Some upkeep.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

Yeah. I mean you're very you're very much right there. It's something to be contracted. And this look has oh, I could catch this shit. And it looked like it to the point where I was like, Ginger, please wash your hands after touching your dad's forehead.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

But to Sean's point, while it is a disease that can be contracted by a scratch, his jaw literally changes, his fingers change, his nails become sharp, he grows the teeth, the signature bottom teeth that stick out and are sharp. And so, yeah, I get it that it's a disease, and he looks gnarly, his skin looks horrible for so much of this movie. But at the same time, the dude looks like a wolf in in more ways than just like his cheekbones, you know, like the structure of his body changes. So had they given him a little bit more hair, I would have been I would have been happier as well, or taken some away. It's just the long scragglies that I think are the problem for me here. The look of his dad, though, I mean, that was shrunken in. He was old, he was shriveled up, and that was a great choice to kind of contrast the two because when we see him last, he's still young and he's still strong and everything. And so now he's like this old gross-looking mangy dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:06

Yeah. I guess we could probably assume that he may have killed the other werewolf, and that's how he so I yeah, that's like another honorable mention in a potential kill count that we just can't actually have because it wasn't really told to us. But you gotta imagine he was hunting that thing. So he probably found it, possibly killed it, and then also contracted its disease.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:31

Yeah, otherwise there'd be a couple wolves running around after this family.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:36

And that's where the sequel comes. The wolf pack.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

Yeah, this whole movie honestly gives that whole adage uh inside you there are two wolves.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

Except in this case it's three wolf moon, although we didn't get to see one of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

Well, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

That was unfortunate. We had the opportunity for a wolf hiker, but we never got to see him.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

Yeah, then they would have been contractually obligated to name the movie Wolf Men. It's like two and a half men, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

Men. I did like though how at the beginning they really didn't show you much, and there were like moments that really built a lot of expectations that didn't always follow through, but it wasn't in a bad way. You know what I mean? Like when young Blake is looking through the scope, trying to get the other like position on the deer with his dad, you could swear that there was gonna be a jump scare in there, but they didn't give it to you. You know what I mean? Like those moments built you up, but didn't give it to you, but it didn't feel bad. It felt actually kind of effective in its own way.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

It was kind of a fake out, right? Because initially they they did, they did reveal just a guy just standing there, which is weird as shit. But I agree with you. It's then after the fact that you're like, okay, so they're gonna do the typical, now the guy's moving in closer on the scope, but that never happened. I appreciated it's like give us a little bit of the traditional, but then don't fully commit the whole way through, right? I I liked that ultimately though, I I did want to be able to see what the fuck this Wolfman looks like or what this being is supposed to look like pretty early on to captivate me. If it was gonna take super long to get there, then I probably would have lost interest early on, or I wouldn't even know what I'm looking at. I think is it before they reveal that it's the person that we did see a little bit of like a lot of fur? There there was a moment there that it looked like it was actually a full-on beast.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

So I I think at that point I was like, well, is this human completely transform into a furry being, or does it not? And it still leaves you curious for what the ultimate look is going to look like later on in the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

But I think that takes me to my least favorite part of this movie. And there's some moments where they're they have the perfect balance of giving you just what you need, but making you ask for more. And then there's some moments where they hit you over the head. And it's those moments that are my least favorite. I think I'm typically not a fan of exposition in a film when it's over the top. The fact that we have to put something as a paragraph at the beginning didn't need it. The story had it, and the parts that the story didn't have, we probably didn't need. We would have been fine without it. And to have to throw a text block up there with it, I was like, ah, that feels a little cheesy. At the end of the movie, sure, you want to tell me what happens in 10 years to Ferris Bueller, that's fine. But at the beginning here, it feels like I probably don't need to know this in order to fully enjoy everything. And I think I was right. And I think even later in the film, when we go through the exchange where he gets the letter and finds out his dad has been declared deceased, you just showed me. Why did he have to say it in 15 different ways? I feel like I can put the pieces together. And I think there's so much of this film that you're already putting together if you're a careful viewer. And I think most of us are for films like this. This is not a scary movie, this is not something silly. We don't just get to put it on the background and tune out. I think most of us are watching this like every detail on screen we're gonna try to pick upon. So in those moments where they give us just a little bit too much information, they could have backed off. And I think it would have worked really well still.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:03

Yeah. Well, listen, I'm gonna pick up our a really fucking dumb thing here. I'm gonna stand by my worst part of this movie being her having such ease and comfort with turning her fucking back on him after he's all fucked up. But my other worst part, this whole expectation, correct me if I'm wrong, is they're gonna spend the whole summer there. Right? They're gonna load things up in a truck, they're gonna spend the whole summer there. Summer's not one week, summer's not a couple days. Exactly. Why the fuck do they have the moving truck day one? How expensive is that to fucking rent?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:36

The logistics.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:37

The logistics are not fucking logisticking. It makes no fucking sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:42

In this day and age, come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

You're gonna fucking rent that what to leave it parked out there because you're staying there for a fucking month. Where's your luggage? Granted, we don't see it, but it must be either in the bed of the truck or in the cab of the truck. But it's not that big for you know, for a month or a couple months worth of supplies. But yeah, you're gonna fucking drive that truck over there, and I get it. Listen, maybe a moving truck is not that accessible. Fucking rent a car and then go back in town and get the moving truck when you're ready for it. But you need probably a couple of months to pack up everything in that house.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:14

Yeah, well, depends how fast you work, but I do agree with you know, why are we bringing well, it's not even bringing the truck up there, but I do agree with the fact that why are we gonna have the truck for that long because that's a long ass time. I would, from a financial standpoint, definitely be packing that shit up first and then getting the truck. And maybe even just hiring some people to come pick it up once I'm done packing it, and then they can drive their ass through this fucking forest.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

Motherfucker, you don't work, and then you're also telling your wife that she doesn't have to work. Why the fuck are you running that truck that long?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

So here's my thought though. Maybe this makes sense. Potentially, could it be that they wanted to pack up the house first to get that out of the way so that the rest of the summer they can just be enjoying the house? That might be a r stretch, but in the same way that they would have had to if they went to the house, went back to the city to get the truck, went back to the house to pack it, went back again to then drop off the house. Mass not math. The things in the house.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:17

Yeah, and then what are they doing if they do want to go into town? They're gonna bring that whole truck there, like in hyaleah, that is exactly what happens. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:26

Girl, this is not hyalea.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:28

We didn't really, not a well-thought out plan of action.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

This one farm is not hyalea. I'm just saying that it potentially would make sense to get rid of your father who you don't have a relationship with, things out of the house, out of the way, and out of your life first, and then enjoy the rest of your summer versus spending the whole summer with all of his things and then having to pack it up at the end of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:52

I think they knew. Okay, they knew ahead of time that something was going to happen, and it was going to be that his wife and his daughter were going to leave about five days in. They were just prepared for that. So he was like, just leave the moving truck. I'll sit pantsless on the couch drinking beers while you're off being productive and living the real life, and I'll just sit here and mope a little bit, and that's just how it's gonna be. So he probably figured it doesn't matter if we just brought a moving truck, because nothing matters, because I'm unhappy right now, and she's unhappy, and we're unhappy. So yeah, I feel like he was giving that mood in his decision making in the beginning of the film. Like it just whatever, nothing matters. So so screw it. They're gonna leave anyway, make them drive to the airport with a moving truck. Who cares? But it would have been more convenient just to get a pod delivered and to pack that thing up and have somebody come get it. That would have made a lot more sense. But these people, they must be doing well because he hasn't worked. How long is it since he's had his last job? And what did he make that they can live fairly decently?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:48

I don't think it's what he made. It's what she actively makes as the breadwinner for their family. I mean, as a journalist?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:55

Who knows? I guess we're not really supposed to be thinking too hard on this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

Clearly, because as someone who was ultimatum into moving to New York, I can tell you, you gotta make a lot of money. And I don't know if it's that kind of money that she's making. Who knows? And it I hope so.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:13

They were in a city, but hey, despite their financial income, I feel like the best part for me was probably a lot of just the storytelling in the way that they specifically gave you the transformation process. We talked about the changing of perspectives, and I think it was a creative way to give you a different way of telling a story of a werewolf kind of changing for the first time, and to see both sides of that. I do wish we got more storytelling of the werewolf itself, though, and kind of like wear this a little bit deeper into the lore of like what was happening in these specific mountains. You know what I mean? Let's go back a little bit further. I'm here for the lore, didn't get enough of it, but I do really love the creative way that they told you or showed you the transformation.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

I would say that the best part, aside from Christopher Abbott, because I've sang his praises enough this evening, is Oregon. Oregon wins because we're talking about Oregon today. We're talking about Oregon next week, and the Pacific Northwest is incredible, fantastic. Like my favorite part of the country is going to Seattle and Portland and these beautiful mountains and just that whole coast is remarkable. So I love a good scenery, and I love a good moment where I can bask in the sequoia and the beauty that is the Pacific Northwest. So that's why I would definitely re-watch this movie if it was on a rainy day, a sick day, another mindless moment where I can just like unplug a little bit, just watch something, throw it on and enjoy and pretend that I am in the Pacific Northwest, but hopefully not in the same circumstances of this film. But at least on a visual standpoint, I can love it and makes me feel good and cozy.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

Yeah, this feels like a great movie to re-watch again when I'm ready to watch Twilight again.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:15

So I guess you're not Team Jacob.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

No, fuck Team Jacob.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

Yeah, I could definitely re-watch this again. I can't wait for this to hit streaming. I think it's gonna be great at home. I think it's one of those things where sure it's amazing in IMAX, but when you can put in headphones and the headphones give you cool, spatialized audio for a film like this, but you're in the comfort of your own couch and not 14 aisles back, I think it's gonna be just bomb.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:38

Yeah, I I think it definitely is worth a watch. I think it has some rewatch value. So if you haven't seen it right, definitely it's something that I would encourage checking out. And I'll probably watch it again. I know my rating is pretty harsh at the end for this movie, but I do think it did a lot of things really well. There was just enough things that I think it flopped on that I had to say what I had to say, and I don't know how soon I'll rewatch it, but I'm sure it'll come around again. I'm just not super anxious to re-watch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

Well, rewatchability aside, there you have it, folks. Wolfman has earned two hacks and two slashes. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:28

It absolutely does not. If you enjoyed the journey into this misty and eerie atmospheric story with us, and want to find out how you can go further than the episode, visit patreon.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:51

And if you had a good time with the Wolfman, leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:06

The things you have to come to terms with out here.