389: Until Dawn (2025)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I want you fucking done. Get out of here, scramp. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back! What's more terrifying than not knowing what comes next? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

I think we need the Bible as a weapon.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

I think we should hold hands.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

And the paranormal paramour Binks. I have faith. I have a lot of faith. This week we're back in theaters to check out a film rooted in a popular Sony and Supermassive Games property.

SPEAKER_06 1:01

And if you support the show, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we get into how we would try to survive until dawn in this fucked-up movie scenario.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

In January 2024, Sony announced a film was in development based on a game originally released in 2015. Director David F. Sandberg signed on to create an original story set within that game's universe. And rather than directly adapting the game's events, Sandberg crafted a new narrative that would give him the chance to explore different horror subgenres while incorporating practical effects whenever possible. The story follows a group of friends trapped in a time loop, haunted by mysterious forces, and forced to survive until morning to break the cycle. This week we're talking about until dawn. What were you all expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Oh gosh, I haven't played PlayStation games since PS1. Sir. I don't really have a strong attachment to most like Sony properties. But you know, I just have mixed feelings about video game adaptations. They can be really great, but they can be quite horrible. I mean, they could be like doom, you know? So just remember that. So going into this, I was concerned. I was concerned we were gonna get another Far Cry.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

That's a valid concern because most of the time these adaptations haven't been so great. I'm looking at you, Tomb Raider. I mean, it's the reason that I love Angelina Jolie, sure, but every Tomb Raider adaptation has been pretty rough. Maybe the only one that's really been gold is The Last of Us, which it should, and it needed to be because I would have been distraught. But I actually had my reservations with this one for the similar reason. I treasure this game deeply. It is one of my favorite games of all time. I owned several copies of it, like a psychopath, and I avoided the trailers because I had this feeling that it was just not going to be adapted very well, which seems insane when you think about it because supermassive games as a whole, their whole thing is this butterfly effect, you know, gameplay structure. And their movies, look at how I even just said it just now. Their games are movies. I think it's movie forward, right? Because it's so many cutscenes. It's like a narrative first. So you would think that it would adapt really well, but something about it. I had my reservations, I was a little concerned. But I at least hoped that they would keep the same characters, they would incorporate a major supernatural element of the game. I thought that they would adapt it in the sense of just the plot as a whole. I didn't realize that they were going to stray away from that.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Okay, okay. I tell you what's interesting about that, Bings. And then I'll get into my expectations in a bit. What's interesting about having to adapt a game of that style is it inherently pushes an audience towards a canon set of events. When in fact, for the player, whatever their playthrough was, was the canon set of events. In a world like the Quarry, I had multiple playthroughs of that game, all with different endings. I was thinking about this when someone was talking about, like, oh, they should make a Baldur's Gate 3 movie. Well, no, because my dirge isn't your dirge, and I don't want to fucking be told what my dirge has to be, and maybe that's just like a little curmudgeon of me, but I think that's an interesting thing to consider when a movie adopts a game and adapts its story, it is adhering to almost like a biblical sense of what the canon events are, what the canon outcome is, and then everything else outside of that would be non-canon. So it's just I don't know, it's an interesting thing to consider. I think Mortal Kombat also ran up against this, and probably why there's there are more Mortal Kombat movies by this point. But going into this, I didn't have any strong ties to the game. I played the quarry, I fucking loved the quarry. I immediately downloaded until dawn. I started playing the introduction, and then I got busy and I happened to have not gone back to it. But that meant that I was actually a blank slate for this movie, yeah. Which honestly, I think made the ride even better for me.

SPEAKER_06 5:08

Yeah. I think it's gonna be interesting because it sounds like the majority of us went into this without playing the game. Binx, you played the game, it sounds like, right? So I was gonna say, I feel a lot better about this. I was gonna say, man, can I be honest here? I haven't I didn't even know that this was about a video game until it got closer to the release. And I haven't played PlayStation games in quite some time, but I think at least PS3 Mac, you know, so at least I got there. But I did watch the trailer a lot. Like I remember seeing the trailer hit before a lot of movies this year, and I gotta admit, I was expecting this one to actually be a pretty fun movie. It looked really fun. It looked like it was gonna be fun, it looked like it might be a little bit campy, maybe some campy kills, some stupid one-liners, maybe something like Cabin in the Woods. I don't know. I was getting that vibe from the trailer, so I was actually kind of hyped for this movie without even knowing anything about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Okay, I love the energy that you share there because I had that energy watching the movie, but not based on the trailers. I didn't have any expectation there. I thought it looked interesting, but I feel like I heard audience reactions and I can hear the discourse around, oh, it doesn't look like it's based on the game. So going into this and like settling into the theater, I was blown away. I saw this with Allie and her son, and wow, holy shit, it was violent in the best way. It was gory in some great ways, but it was fucking fun and also heartfelt and also deep and also light at the same time. It was a great mix of what it was trying to do. I love that it got I love that it got us to a point where it just threw us into the action, and it felt like it was pretty unrelenting up until that. And I think one of the biggest things that really stood out to me when you think about a time loop, you think about okay, this is gonna be redundant, it's gonna be repetitive. How can I keep this interesting? Folks, there are many moments in this movie where I had this exact feeling. And Binks, I hope you and I can align on what this feeling is. If you played Baldur's Gate 3, there are many boss fights throughout that game. And I was reminded of one specifically, it was called The House of Grief. This movie and some of these time loops felt like I was in a Baldur's Gate 3 boss fight with one HP left at the end, but only one survivor left standing. And it felt like a fucking scramble and a fight for my life. This movie gave me that feeling.

SPEAKER_06 7:44

That's tension.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, you sent me back. That particular boss fight literally almost gave me hives. It was a little too intense, a little too intense.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Ironically, Shadow Heart was my last one standing, which was fucking great.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Of course, of course. That's very fitting, actually, and really talks about like the world that you had created. Actually, let's talk about that because you just mentioned it right now, right? In terms of if Baldur's Gate was to be adapted and like the storyline that you build is your canon, that's an incredible canon to have built out in terms of that boss fight. The thing about Until Dawn, though, is like, although I agree with you in terms of how do you adapt something and then basically decide the flow is what's gonna be canon when the whole point of the game is that you create your own story. But I would counter that Dungeons and Dragons, the movie, actually was a great example. Funny enough, Baldur's Gate, like a great example is a fun movie that I think like talks about that idea and that concept in the world and then adopts it pretty decently without having it be super canon.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

But here's the thing with that kind of concept, though, Binks, they made up their own characters to be in this movie, take place in that universe. Whereas a Baldur's Gate movie would be like Astarian versus Shadow Heart, like it would be the literal characters.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

So here's, but I'm gonna again, as the one that's played the game, I read that part. That the director had the audacity to say that this is set in the universe of the game. I would like to put a uh notice and a PSA to everyone. That is a bold-faced lie and impossible because this is nowhere near set in the same universe of the game. There is the whole idea of this time loop that the game that this movie is about, everything in terms of setting that we'll talk more about in the spoiler zone, there is no way on this planet that it has anything to do with the game. There is maybe one and a half things that correlate to the game directly. Everything else is just Easter eggs, just to kind of say, like, ooh, this is why we're called Until Dawn. But that's really it, folks. It's not set in the same universe. So that being said, when the movie started, and I realized, oh shit, these are new characters. Okay, I'm not mad at it, whatever. And then I realized what the movie was actually gonna be about and how they were like really just going into the setting, establishing who they are, their connections, what the actual scenario was gonna be, this time loop, etc. I was like, all right, I'm gonna have to a thousand percent just rip apart this hope that it was gonna have to involve the original gameplay or anything that I had expected in terms of the game until dawn, right? It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen here, folks. Everything's just gonna be little Easter eggs. And that's okay. So now I'm watching this movie as a standalone, and I will say I kind of wanted to give it a fighting chance. I found it to be pretty funny, actually. I love the comedic bits, it's lighthearted in that way, definitely campy, cheesy. The gore was astronomical, and I loved that part actually, because that does match up to the gore in the game, which is great. I appreciate it a lot. But ultimately, it felt like it just leaned that way, and I didn't feel anything about the characters, which made the stakes not as intense for me. I actually felt the polar opposite as you, Chris, where I didn't find it to be deep whatsoever. I didn't find any of these characters and their chemistry very impactful that made it feel like, damn, you know, they're really in a shitty situation, and this is gonna only get worse for them as the movie goes on. I really didn't care too much, but at least it was funny, and I can give it its flowers for that.

SPEAKER_06 11:32

I do think this movie has a lot going on. I don't think Deep is definitely one of them. I definitely think it's a lighthearted film. It's got some topics that that maybe feel deep on the surface, but I don't think they really explore them enough for this movie to be that serious, but it is a good call out. You know, we haven't played the game, so it's a good call-out to have that PSA announcement that if you're going into this thinking it's gonna be like the game, it's I guess not exactly like the game. So maybe don't have that expectation. But I had a lot of fun. I had a great time. You know, we're talking about the gore, so I had a good time with all the kills, the practical effects in this movie, because I think those really added to the atmosphere of this movie in a really, really great way. But I also felt, in like just one or two like pockets within the film's runtime, I felt a little bit, I don't know how to describe it, maybe overstimulated at one point. Like there was so much going on. They were flipping through so many subgenres of horror and things like that that it felt like there was just so much stuff going on. It was trying to blend so many things together in a short runtime. And so I don't know if that works for it or against it. Like I part of it was fun, and part of it felt like maybe just too much.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

I thought of something very different while watching this, and that is the experience of us walking together at Universal through the different haunted houses. That's what this movie feels like. It's going out with your friends and doing something silly and hanging out within the world of the genre.

SPEAKER_06 13:05

Okay. Yeah, like a haunted house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

I wrote down in my notes there's no fucking way this movie could go by without being a Halloween horror night's haunted house. And then I was thinking, bro, how fucking cool would it be to have your own haunted house, but then also make it an escape room with scare actors.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

It'd be fucking great.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Yeah, I mean, like we've mentioned, we we really haven't played the game, and I've tried to imagine myself with something similar. That would probably be like Star Trek, and I'll be one of the first people to tell you that Galaxy Quest, I think, is one of the best Star Trek movies, which is weird, right? Doesn't make sense, but I think there's people who've starred in Star Trek who might agree that it's so close to the experience without calling it Star Trek. So it's different, right? Because in this case, they're calling it Until Dawn. You know, there's been, like we mentioned, other video games. We've watched plenty of Resident Evil. I never played the game. Never once, honestly, played the game. I have no idea if there was anything from the games that translated well onto the screen. What I do like about this different from most other video game movies, though. The thing that really kind of shocked me is that fear I had going into it that it was going to be so bad as an adaptation. For me, it's not about like truth to the original content necessarily, but is it just a bad movie? And I didn't get that feeling here that this is a video game adaptation. That part didn't come through. It just read like a movie. And I appreciate that about it because I didn't have to focus on it at all. There's so many video game movies, especially in the early and mid-2000s, where they do that thing where it looks like a video game movie the way they shoot it, almost looks lifted from the video game. The friggin' CGI looks like the video game. We didn't have that feeling here, which was good. It just read as a movie.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah, there's a lot in here that felt like, okay, great movie. However, this could fucking be a great sequence to play out in a video game, which I felt was a safer territory to be in, than focusing so hard on making it feel like a first-person POV, and then you're just fucking then you're held hostage by the gameplay of it all. This movie walked at what I think was a tightrope with its execution, with having the audacity to completely veer from the subject matter, but then also trying to do something that would capture some kind of spirit of the game. Now, the great thing is that it also just captures the spirit of a lot of fucking, I think, good horror movies. So we mentioned already Cabin in the Woods, there's a lot of evil dead in here. It felt like I just wasn't waiting for someone to say dead by dawn, and I that's all I would fucking need. But there was a lot in here to really enjoy, which surprised me. I thought this would be a very gimmicky movie. I think one of the shots from the trailer was like a worm or some kind of creature crawling through a hole in someone's cheek, and that didn't look great to me. But I was so relieved to find that that was so minimal in comparison to the rest of what was great in this movie. One thing that did disappoint me though, and I know Sean, you're talking about this movie not being very deep, just to elaborate on what I meant by that, it touches themes that are dark. And if you I wouldn't even say are someone who has similar experiences, not even just necessarily that, but I think if you are someone who ponders these types of things that come up in this movie and just the questions that I think are ultimately posed by some of the actions or the decisions that you have to make in this plot, I think it just sets you down a path of thought. Not like it's gonna be a huge fucking cry, nothing like that. You're not gonna have an existential crisis. But I do think this movie is thoughtful in some ways. However, there are moments while it's navigating that thoughtful component of it that it gets really fucking cheesy. And there are a couple moments in particular I was like, mm, okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

I really agree with you because there was a lot of potential here to explore those themes to make these characters like feel lovable or make you feel like you really want to root for them or just feel something. And that can still coexist in a world where this is a fun, campy, you know, like gory, silly good time. We've got plenty of movies where they are able to achieve both things, even when the subject matter and the themes are as dark as they are in this film. However, it feels like they skirt by some of those things and throw away lines of dialogue or really cheesy and cringe moments. And it's like, I'm sorry, did they just say that? And we're kind of exploring it in like a 0.5 seconds, or the overall relationships between certain characters is just like, oh, so all that for that, okay. And that is what felt really disappointing for me in this film because it's not even so much about the fact that I'm a diehard fan of this game. Listen, I can I'm we said it at the very beginning. I already expected it to not be so great and faithful to the game because I've seen plenty of movies time and time again where they don't do it right. So what's another one? I can let that go very quickly. When I look at this film, not even looking at its source material, etc., I'm hoping that at least I can like really feel something for these characters or feel like shit, you know, I can have this range of emotions, feel like I'm having a good time, but then shit's gonna hit it a little serious. And it doesn't feel like such a strong whiplash, but there's just none of that here. However, because I am a diehard fan though, what I would say surprised me the most is how subtle they were able to incorporate these Easter eggs. There are some that are more obvious than others, obviously. Like Peter Stomer, he is a huge character in Until Dawn, and they incorporated him pretty well in this film. But there's a slew of things, guys, a slew of things where I was like, oh shit, they're kind of Easter egging this particular moment of gameplay. They are recreating this particular cutscene in a different way. Those are the kinds of things that, like, all right, that's how you honor the game well, but overall thematically, I'm like, damn, or the actual universe of itself, I was like, oh, you gotta give me something to play with here. And I don't really feel much for anybody in this environment.

SPEAKER_06 19:15

You know, for me, the characters, like buying into the or feeling something for the characters, it didn't bother me. And it usually doesn't bother me in specific types of horror movies. Like if we're a slasher film for the most part, I don't really need to have a lot of investment in any of the characters because I'm really going into the film for the kills. You know what I mean? Like I'm here for a good time. So the characters didn't bother me because I kind of had a feeling this movie was gonna be fun. But I think what surprised me was how good this movie actually looked because there were some really fantastic shots. The lighting was really good in this movie. I think that obviously we already touched on the practical effects and the gore looking really good. It the movie just had these shots that just felt like the angle was perfect, the lighting was perfect, whatever filter they were using, whatever lens, I don't know, but it just looked really clean and it looked really good. The only thing that really disappointed me about this film was just how rushed the story felt, right? Not the characters, but how rushed the story felt. I really wanted to sit in each of these nights just a tad longer, really continue to build the tension and the suspense a bit more. But I get it, like you gotta tell your story, and this isn't a limited series or anything like that. It's a feature film, so you gotta do what you gotta do with the premise, but I wanted just a little bit more like just diving into the story a little bit more, and I felt like there was so much going on that it felt like it was kind of rushed.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

You really wanted a title card, you wanted the paranormal activity, that shit, you wanted the adminville horror, that shit.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

Yeah, give me the story.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

I'm so curious to know though. I mentioned earlier that I saw this with Allie and her son, and we're like sitting in the back of a theater. But the experience of this movie I feel would be greatly enhanced if you were to watch it with like Dolby to have an incredible experience with the sound design in my rinketing theater. It was pretty okay, but it still fucking got people. Allie jumped so many fucking times during this movie. I think that this movie is riddled with jump scares. But I'd love to know from y'all. A, did it get you, but B, did it also get your theater?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Oh hell yeah. Listen, I'm talking a lot of shit, but this movie definitely scared me. It got me with a couple of the jump scares, and thank God that it did, because playing that game is also fucking scary. Because the thing that makes it so scary, both the game and the film, is you have to be so fucking quiet. There were moments in this film I was stunned that everyone was so quiet. Like I you would have think that we're in those what do they call like those sensory chambers, like those isolation sensory chambers because it was So quiet in that theater and the film itself that you could hear a needle pin drop. It was crazy. And then of course that's what creates this sense of anxiety, this tension that I thought was so good. And also shout out to the practical effects because a lot of it is also the practical effects that made this film as scary as it was. Now, I don't want to say that listen, if you're like a super scaredy cat not to see this, but I'll maybe warn you a little bit though, like you're gonna get got for sure. But it's not like that, that bad. It's not like what insidious is to me, but it impressed me. It scared me a little.

SPEAKER_06 22:37

I mean, I would say, yeah, there's definitely a lot of jump scares. Like it'll pop out at you. It's got just the right amount of like calmness before it hits you with one of those like jump scares where the sound spikes a little bit and it gets you, it just gets your heart racing a little bit. It's not building a whole lot of fear, like it's not developing a whole lot of fear, right? It's not one of those movies that's going to just kind of keep you up at night, right? Thinking about like what's around the corner, right? It's just one of those where you're here for a good time, you know there's gonna be some stuff popping out at you, and it's like you said, Mac, kind of like going through a haunted house, right? You go through a haunted house, you get scared, you get your heart rate up, you go home, you're not kept up at night for the most part, right? It's just kind of a thrill, and that's what this felt like. There were some jump scares, but not developing real fear.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

It did not get me, but my theater, I will say, was extra fun because before the movie started, there's uh parents with their teenage kid, and they're sitting there and they're like, Look, if you spill the popcorn when you get scared, you're buying another thing of popcorn. And I was like, that's amazing. And there was plenty of like responses to what was going on, you know, going on on screen. So I think people felt some of those moments. They would have those outbursts of, oh my gosh, or like, uh, or whatever it was, the sounds that they would make. But it didn't seem like it was like super scary. There was nobody having like blood curdling screams or anything like that going on. It's not that crazy, you know, it's not that serious of a horror movie. But I think you know, people seem to be having fun at least while watching it. I mean, it's interesting because it's a movie that is obviously not the first of its idea, and it's interesting because it's using the motifs of other movies and other genres, but somehow I like it. I like the fact that they were able to have all those references. Now, in terms of the video game, like I mentioned, I don't know, but in terms of other movies, I think they were able to pick some nice pieces of them.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

Yeah, I think it's true. Like, I I'm kind of piecing together that this is this movie is like extremely different from the video game. That's what I'm that's what I'm gathering from all this talk and chatter. It sounds like from the premise, it's not even set in the same universe. So if that's the case, then I think this movie has to get credit for originality because it basically creates its own story utilizing maybe the basic themes of this video game concept. So it takes like maybe a few basic themes and creates its own story within. I I don't know, I guess that is the bold statement. Is it within the universe or is it just its own story with a couple of points that kind of tie back to the game? I don't know. But either way, you gotta give it originality for that.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

No, a hundred percent. Listen, I will give this this movie originality points because it is its own thing, its own entity. It has nothing to do with the game. And look, it's not like I would be spoiling anything about the game. This is the d this is literally the description of the game until Dawn. Until Dawn is a group of friends that reunite a year later after two of them pass away in an accident that they don't know what happened. It's in a set in a cabin in the woods that their family owns, and basically they are stuck there in a blizzard and see someone like out there in the woods. They don't know what's chasing them, what's hunting them down, etc. That is the game. Has nothing to do with, you know, uh surviving until dawn, has nothing to do with a loop in which they have to survive or fight something off. Nothing of that whatsoever. It is just an actual, like, if anything, more true to a an OG slasher type setting where they are trying to avoid something that's hunting them down in while they're stuck in this middle of nowhere woods. And this movie, obviously, nothing to do with that. There's a whole mechanics to it, right? So this film is like we kept we've said it, right? Happy Death Day, Groundhog Day, Cabin in the Woods. And I would actually also say Silent Hill, funny enough, another adaptation to it from a game, right?

SPEAKER_06 26:32

For sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

You know, but it's like those like in a blender. And my thing is that all of those films I really love a lot and I think that they're fun. Even Silent Hill is not a great adaptation of the movie of the game. I'm sorry, but I I enjoy it, but it's fun. So I'm not even trying to say like, oh, it needs to be exact. Like I can tango with it, it's a good time for me. But in this particular case, I felt like there was a lot of potential to do a lot more things with what they had and what they built. So it's kind of like a bad aftertaste when you combine all of those movies. I went into it thinking, like, okay, it can be all these films. I'm here for it. This is gonna be a good time. And then as it kind of, you know, settles into my stomach, I'm like, oh, this is not gonna hit right. It's just not gonna hit right.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Damn. You really just had all different kinds of snacks at the bar.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

It was a charcuterie that went out of control, you know?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

It was a it it was yeah, it was a charcuterie that I went a little bit out of control. I ate too much, now I have a really back, you know, digestion issue.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

We're gonna circle back to the digestion issue when we get into the spoiler zone here because I think there's a whole aspect of this movie. One of my last notes in my document for this movie was something I never thought I would say in an episode ever on this podcast. So that was fun. But here's the thing we've already covered the ground here, right? This is a movie that has the audacity to defy the title of the property it's allegedly adapting or being inspired by. It this is not the same experience, so I don't want you to equate it exactly to this, but in my mind, it's like I take this cool drawing I'm really proud of to a tattoo artist, and I'm like, I want this, and they fucking redo something way fucking cooler than what I actually intended. All right, sick. This sounds good. We're all friends here, we can do it. But I think this movie is a really clever blend of all of its parts, which is exciting to me. But one of the things that makes it so successful is how I can feel the horror genre in this movie. And you know, when I think about even some of the most obvious homages, it's actually even right down to its ending because there's a very significant moment that I was like, oh my god, it's X movie. It felt this was an ending that felt in equal parts, oh thank God we're finally here. Okay, because I don't know that we could have taken another time loop, but also B, oh, it has an outcome that I didn't know I could have expected. It's I'm not saying it's groundbreaking or revolutionary. I'm not even saying that you're not gonna see it coming, but I think because of how hard the movie goes, I didn't quite expect what we got.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

I can see that. I think that up until the ending for me though, I was okay with just writing this off as a silly good time and just buying into the humor of it all and whatever it is, what it is. But for me, the ending felt a little too simple in comparison to everything else that we got, all the chaos. And granted, not for anything, this film felt a little bit too long for me somehow, even though it's like an hour and 40. But there's only so many loops that a girly can take. So I agree with you there. But the ending felt so simple. It felt like the tension was just kind of like ripped away from me, like pretty flat. There's like a monologue that's supposed to, you know, be super impactful and give you lots of exposition. And I'm like, I d what did he say? One more time, run it back. I don't think I I understood aga a goddamn thing of it. But you know, and that's okay, because there's certainly instead some moments that you're like, oh shit. So I'll I guess I'll take it, you know, like I just temper the expectations in terms of like a big, you know, blowout finale. I don't think that this movie has that. So let's, you know, kind of like pump the brakes in that regard.

SPEAKER_06 30:28

You know, we're talking about like how this movie blends stuff, and I think I actually enjoyed the ending to this movie. I think the third act definitely feels a bit rushed, but I feel like we get the idea, and I think this movie kind of blends what a lot of people do and don't want in an ending, right? Like I feel like it ended in a pretty like simple way. I guess that's a good way to put it. It ended in like this kind of lighthearted, like simple way, but it also still gave the people what they want throughout the entire runtime. So it's like you man maybe that's like the overstimulation of like how much we're getting thrown at us in this like hour and 43 minutes or whatever the runtime is with this movie, but I feel like I got enough of like the good and the bad that by the end of the movie, even if it was simple or if it is simple, I still kind of enjoyed it. I wasn't mad at it. I do understand though, because I was reading an article about this movie, and I do understand that the final scene in this movie is a pretty big reference to the video game, making this like potentially a possible prequel type thing. I don't know if that's a hot take, but I was reading some stuff. I don't want to give anything away, right? Because we're not diving into the spoilers or anything, but I don't know. Apparently the very final scene or the ending is like a direct reference to the game, but I didn't play the game, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Yeah, I we'll get into that later. It was interesting. That I will say at the very end, when I did see that, it does give a little bit of a moment and an homage that I was like, these bastards.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Yeah, I mean, again, same thing. No any sort of knowledge of any of that, no attachment to it. The ending, however, did feel like the most video gamey part of the film to me. So it's where it kind of hit that moment where, okay, we have adapted a video game. This feels like a video game ending. This feels like we're gonna, I don't know, stick pretty close, maybe. So again, I didn't know if that was actually true to the game or not, but it felt like I don't know, it's hard to describe. This is one of those things where it feels like they're setting this up to exist either within the universe or start their own universe or whatever it's going to be. It's an Avengers kind of style moment. It was fine. Okay. I mean, I honestly had to look up to see if there was going to be a post-credit scene because it played like a post-credit scene, probably. Yeah. And so I was like, all right, like I guess that was the one they should have just put two minutes afterwards, but and it would have felt like every other movie these days, but that's okay. Leading up to that point, though, I think that's when they really started to lean into okay, we need to have a little bit of fun with this ending, and it was incredibly silly. So it kind of matched the rest of the movie. It kind of made sense.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Well, we'll see if that translates to any positive news on the scoring front, but before we actually start rating it, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_06 33:15

Well, this movie is definitely not going to disappoint with gore, I don't think. I think there's a solid amount of gore in this film. You have so much good stuff from traditional slasher style kills with stabbings, slash to some supernatural shit, and even some random and wild stuff thrown in there as well. So I feel like the use of practical effects that we've been talking about in this movie is where the gore really shines. Because not only did this involve using makeup and prosthetics and all that, but specific types of actors were used to bring these monsters to life as well, which is really clever, right? It's really thoughtful. And I know I'm kind of rambling on and on about this, but we all know how much I appreciate like the use of practical effects and the thought that goes into and the effort that goes into like the visuals of these types of movies. So I gotta tell you, like, the gore is not gonna disappoint. I think there's enough blood, guts, and flying flesh to earn this one a high gore score.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Well, a high gore score indeed, but were any of them animals?

SPEAKER_02 34:12

All of the animals made it until dawn, shockingly, unlike the game.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Fantastic news. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Until dawn 2025. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_03 34:23

It was fun. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna let you speak in a few minutes, Binks. But I watched this opening night. The theater's popping off. We have those verbal reactions, the ooze, the ahs, the oh and no's, but it just gave me, like you mentioned, like a more serious version of like Cabin in the Woods. That was the vibe I got from it, especially in the theater experience kind of sense. The reactions to it felt very much like when people watch Cabin in the Woods. The kills were gruesome and plentiful. The story was simple, but also not too simple. And I overall just enjoyed myself, just kind of a good basic slash all the way until dawn.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Look, I'll go next, and only because I don't want to be the last one, since I think our listeners can kind of gather where I'm gonna go with this, you know, scoring. I saw this movie with a few friends, some that have played the game, some that did not. And I am grateful to be on this show and that you guys don't have that expectation or haven't played the game because listen, there's nothing more annoying than the person that is always like, that's not canon, it's not exact to the game, me, me, me, me, me. That's not me, folks. Okay. Like, it's I get it. It's annoying. I'm not even like that with The Last of Us, and I'm again like very obsessed with that. So, you know, I can enjoy something and appreciate it for what it is, even if it's in this case, just ripping off the name and a couple of Easter eggs here and there. The thing about Until Dawn and what had me so excited was that Super Massive Games, the studio itself, all of their games really are horror films that you just so happen to play through. Chris mentioned earlier The Quarry. The Quarry is one of their games, it's most recent, has David Arquette and a slew of other incredible people in it that are have their filmography rooted in horror. And I know that that studio just loves to create a good story and just have you play out different scenarios. So when I heard that this was being made into a film, I just thought, damn, this is gonna be a great adaptation. And I never expected it to be exact because the director himself said that if they were to do that, it's going to be a 10-hour movie. And I get it. No one wants that. So then just give me the world in which it is based off of. So when I read that he is trying to say that this is the same universe, I'm like, buddy, who are you fooling? Because this game has been out for 10 years. A lot of people have played this game and can call you on your bluff. And like I told you guys, right? Like the description of the game does not read like this is could be anywhere near the universe, right? There is no supernatural element or paranormal element in the game aside from one thing that I'll talk more about in the spoiler zone. But you know, it just seems like a little bit of a cop-out in terms of what the potential they had at the table and what they could have done with the story. That being said, outside of that, is it funny? Hell yeah. There's a lot of funny dialogue and like little quips here and there that are quotable. That's it's a it's a good time. The kills is 120% the best part of this movie. The gore is crazy, the kills are fun, it's whimsical, it's tense, it's a lot of things. But outside of that, I don't really care about anything else. So the disappointment that I feel is a little too strong for what this could be. And I'm not hacking it because it's not just like the game, but I'm hacking it because I just felt like, damn, I could have had a better time with this, and it felt a little too silly. It was right there, and it just felt a little too fucking silly for me personally.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

I need you to know that moments before we even got on the call to do this recording, I had the feeling you were gonna say almost exactly what you said.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

And listen, I maybe I'm just being redundant in terms of like my scorings lately and stuff like that. I can have a good time. It's just like I at least wanted to like the characters a little bit more than I did and believe some of their chemistry too, to buy into this like fun stuff. Uh and Sean brings up a good point, right? Like, it's just our tastes because, like you said, Sean, you can have a good time and like a silly movie and not care about the characters. But for me, I love Scream and I love like all these slasher films because I'm looking for my Sidney Prescott. You know, like I wanna love these characters and root for them and be like badass, and when they make the funny jokes or whatever, right? Like I can laugh along with them. But unfortunately, I didn't even get that here, which sucks.

SPEAKER_06 38:52

Yeah, I think this is gonna be for me, the comedy I think is it didn't bother me. I think the comedy and the humor aspect in this film was balanced pretty well for my taste. Like I I watch a lot of horror comedies. You guys know we rate these horror comedies. I end up hacking a lot of these horror comedies because it's too comedic, not enough horror. I think this one has a lot of in-your-face horror with some comedy and some campiness, which I appreciate. As I said, obviously, never played the video game, so I sat down to watch this movie adaptation, I guess, if you will. I was completely unaware about the story, the characters, or any right way that this movie was supposed to go, or if it was true to the game or anything, right? And I think that may have actually worked in my favor. I had no nostalgic expectations or anything like that, so I kind of just went into this whole thing fresh. And I think the premise alone is intriguing, right? Like we've had loop movies, we've had this Groundhog Day type scenario before, but I think this premise was a little bit different, it was intriguing. I think it's also one of the things that I think causes this movie to feel a little bit jumbled and rushed in some areas, and it makes sense if the director or whoever is saying that if they were to stay in the universe and stay as true to the game as a lot of fans may want, then it would be a much longer experience. And I totally get that. It feels like it could be that already, and it's not even close to the game. But I think where that aspect of the movie doesn't feel as great, I think visually this movie is awesome. I think it definitely nails the creepy vibe. It has a spooky atmosphere, it looks great, the moody, dark, ominous forests, the stormy nights, it's eerie and creaky cabins. Like, what else do you want in a horror movie? It was like experiencing, Mac, you said it, a great like haunted funhouse. Like it just had that vibe and the fucking practical effects that we keep talking about, I'm telling you, it really just made the gore and the creature design. It made it fun, it made it great to look at. All in all, I think whether or not this movie stays true to the video game doesn't really matter that much to me. I think because I had a really good time just watching this movie in an empty theater, no less, on opening night, like literally nobody else in the theater, much like most of the times I go to the theater up here, it fucking is mind-boggling. I really wish I did see it in a full theater with reactions because I think that would be even more fun. But I think this movie just came at a time when I needed a fun horror movie that didn't ask too much of me. And so maybe that's why I had a lot of fun with this. So you can write my fucking name down in that logbook 13 fucking times because it's not the when to go, it's when do I go, because I think it's a slash in my book.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah, this is panning out almost exactly as I thought it would. Listen, I don't have deep hooks into the game, so I'm glad I was able to be a blank slate, ready to enjoy the ride, because I think if I had an ounce of what Binks had going into this, it'd be hard to look the other way. I've had that same feeling when I see remakes of movies that I love or other properties that I really enjoy. And honestly, we could be having a very similar conversation with the tables reversed, with the tables turned when we see Clown in a cornfield, because I love that book series, and it's now getting a theatrical release. And I think I might be the only one here aside for maybe Mac who's read that book. So we'll see how that goes. But for now, for this movie, I had so much fun, and I feel like in a year that has already proven to have some levels of stress in it, you just need to have fun. And this movie was such a great theater experience, even in a movie theater that I was trying out for the first time and I was a little sketched out by. This movie fucking rocks, it's brutal, it's hilarious, and it's compelling. I know y'all are getting down on the characters, but we're gonna have some shit to talk about later because I actually found them quite endearing. And listen, this movie is cheesy in some parts, there's no getting around that. But it still has enough grit, violence, and charm to be an undeniable slash. And with that, until Dawn from 2025 has earned three slashes and one hack. Now you can find this movie in theaters. Go check that out, then hop into the Discord server so you can join our conversation on it. But also sit tight, because when we get into the spoiler zone, we're gonna unpack the differences from the game, we're gonna unpack the brutality of its kills, and we're gonna unpack that ending. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_06 43:33

This episode of Hackerslash is proudly sponsored by Glore Valley Parks and Rec. The only team brave enough to manage a murderous valley in town where loop kills aren't just a tourist attraction, they're practically a seasonal sport. At Glore Valley Parks and Rec, we've got a crack team dedicated to keeping the mayhem mostly manageable. Meet Mac, the Superfly Space Guy. He's our wildlife. Threat response officer. Max specializes in shooing away Wendigos, reclassifying deathbirds as ambiance, and tranquilizing killers. And then we have Sean, the classic horror connoisseur. He's our historical preservation specialist. Sean ensures every cursed cabin, abandoned asylum, and blood-soaked scenic bench is properly maintained, because nothing says quaint mountain town like a haunted gazebo restored to its original terror. Don't forget about Binx, the Paranormal Paramour. She's our spectral mediation coordinator. Binx hosts friendly negotiations with angry spirits, schedules mandatory hauntings, and offers free conflict resolution workshops for the undead. We're still working on our Don't Possess the Tourist policy, but we wouldn't be able to operate without our very own slasher enthusiast, Chris, our public safety and hazardoon retrieval lead. Whether it's abandoned machetes, suspiciously bloodstained axes, or ceremonial daggers left at scenic points, Chris is there to collect, sanitize, and re-home them responsibly. So come for the breathtaking views and stay because the spirit said you can't leave. Visit Glore Valley now if you dare. But with all of the possessed, the stabbings, the head crushing, the implosions, and overall bodily injuries that ensued during this film's runtime, which one of these kills had you up until dawn?

SPEAKER_00 46:32

I gotta paint a picture for y'all. As you can hear in the raspiness of my voice, I'm a little under the weather. I was mostly fine by the time I went to go see this movie. But when I get sick, I have this respiratory thing. I has to hit my inhaler multiple times. I'm asthmatic. It's just I struggle for a little while. When I went to go see this with Allie, last time we went to a theater with her son, he was like eating a lot of popcorn, coughing obnoxiously and doing like throat clearing. So she lectures him before she even gets into the theater. She's like, You can't do that. You cannot cough so much. One or two, I get it. But you cannot cough a lot and cough loud in a movie theater, because then we're gonna have to leave. Of course, I'm fucking a little sick. So I now am then in the theater, coughing like fucking crazy. The guy at the end of the row is coughing like crazy. And imagine my surprise when on the fucking screen, this guy, Abe, starts fucking coughing like crazy and then exploding. It was oh such perfect and also horrible timing for her to have just lectured her son and made him agree to not fucking do that, and then all of a sudden we're surrounded by this. But holy shit, when that happened, I started laughing, and the inhalation of laughter and the intake of air, I had a crazy ass coughing fit right next to me. I was like rolled over all of a sudden, like, oh my god, trying not to die. Holy shit, it was so fucking brutal, so unexpected, so fucking hilarious.

SPEAKER_06 47:59

Dang, that's where your connection with the characters came from. It makes so much sense now.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

And then did you have to like drink a little bit of water and then feel like, oh, that's even worse?

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Cherry Limeade. So yeah, it looked about the way that fucking faucet turned as soon before it came became clear.

SPEAKER_06 48:16

It was like the details leading up to that death, though, too. Like the coughing up the weird, bloody, mucus-y shit that he tries to like rub on the shower curtain so no one can see. Like, oof, that's nasty.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah. I mean, listen, earlier in the week I was coughing so much that I was either like regurgitating some mucus or fucking puking. So that was a very personal attack from a movie. Thank you very much, David Sandberg.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

But listen, let's talk about the fact that the toxic water is responsible for the majority of the kills in this movie. Everyone was exploding left and right, down to our main antagonist, Dr. Hall. Like, that's how he goes.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

Is a little three droplets of water in his coffee. That's all it took to take down the big bad.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Earlier, I mentioned my notes. I need you to know the one of the last things I wrote in my notes was death by bubble guts is wild.

SPEAKER_04 49:14

Death by bubble guts. A little drop will do you.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

That's all it took. So many of them. I would say that one of my favorite kills was Abe, he got split in half by Mystery Man. That was crazy, also because that is a kill that's in the game. So one of the characters in the game does die that way. Not by in the game, he's called Mystery Man, the killer guy. But similarly. And I was like, wow, but in general, I think like that right off the bat, then it's you know getting impaled in the eye. I think that was Max, right? Like I was like, oh shit, this is really going for it. So I was like, oh shit, we're going right into it. The gore. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

That was a great kill because it was also brutal, and it was tough to know what to expect. Were we gonna get like stabby stabby kind of stuff? Was it gonna be boring and lame? No, it was gonna be bombastic. It was an awesome kill to start things off. One of my favorite words, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

It's gonna be on hackerslash bingo.

SPEAKER_03 50:15

I hope it is. And as you move through the film, I think some of the kills like the explosion ones, you're kind of like, okay, whatever. And then we get to my favorite kill, and that was the sledgehammer. That was everyone pulling their weight here, honestly, and taking down this psycho dude. That was a great one. Smashing his fucking head in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:35

I mean, it's great. Max's, you mentioned it, Binks, is one of my favorite kills, getting stabbed in the eye with the broken piece of wood. I think even the eyeball comes out like with it, or something comes out with it when he pulls it out. And that's the kind of shit I'm talking about, right? I think we just had whatever movie we talked about not that long ago, where I was talking about someone getting stabbed in the eye, and I wanted the eyeball to come out and it didn't, right? And like here we are. This is what I'm talking about. Give me the fucking eyeball. That's what I'm asking for. But that was a great one. Man, I think Megan getting possessed by the former victims was great. Like, even though the actual death was kind of lackluster, I think the lead up to the death was kind of just great, right? Any you get that possession scene, she's all creepy as hell, she's fucking like doing different voices, and then all of a sudden her neck snaps and falls to the ground. That one was a fun death as well.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

She kind of looked like if she was in the grudge. Like the way like it felt like super like J horror, like the way that they like hollowed out her eyes type deal. I thought that it reminded me a little bit of like Pulse as well. Just like the overall look that they gave her when she was possessed was cool for sure. Absolutely. The other part, too, that I think I mean, I guess kind of kills because they're not human anymore, is just the windigo of it all. So that is the one supernatural thing that I was hoping, and anyone that's played this game was like, they better fucking give us these windigos or we're gonna riot. Didn't think that they were gonna incorporate it in this way though, because it felt a little bit like that's not how windigos are made. They're can't wind well in some ways they did do it correctly because they kinda did, right?

SPEAKER_06 52:19

Because the dude turned after eating dead flesh.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Yes, but but generally no, because they are slowly turning into Wendigos regardless of whether they eat flesh or not. And the biggest part about Windigo lore is that they're cannibals.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Well, they're drinking that nasty ass water. So I g I guess, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

I don't know. That was the one part that I was like, damn, that's not accurate at all. When we saw the paper of what looked like they were gonna turn into werewolves, those look that looked like that.

SPEAKER_06 52:51

I know that was a legitimate werewolf. I'm sorry. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Yeah, thank you. I was like, oh, that's an odd thing to incorporate. But I guess if we're already just doing that, then don't give me the windows at all. Right, I agree. I and I was almost like, is that an Easter egg for the quarry? Which is seems odd for super massive to do, but okay. Um, well, I I'm assuming they're not involved in this movie though.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

So even then, I was like, okay, fuck it. We got a werewolf coming up. All right, what's next? Are we gonna have fucking Edward Cullen but breaking out in this bitch?

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Yeah, absolutely. Just at this point, what's left? But I think just the when to go transformation was really cool because of the practical effects and all that, and just how they were like consuming each, or rather, I guess the eating of the flesh in that particular scene was really cool. But I was kind of curious what you guys thought about the actual lore, I guess, because I was like, wait a second, did they do that wrong? Is it just me? But I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_06 53:44

The lore for me, I felt like of the Wendigo, or like what happens if you just don't succeed in this game or whatever that they're in. I feel like it was like there's pros and cons to it, right? It seems a little bit like silly, right? Like, oh, you it's like a almost like a Jumanji type of thing, or whatever, like you're gonna get stuck in the game, you're gonna be part of the game, kind of thing. So that was kind of like whatever, but I'm also like kind of here for this slow transformation, right? But that's again like if we were able to s linger in these loops a little bit more and see a little bit stronger of a progression of transformations, right? What would that have looked like? But then again, we're just adding more and more time. So where where is this time coming from? I don't know. But it would be cool to see the progression just on the lore.

SPEAKER_02 54:31

Yeah, I agree. And speaking of that too, another kill that just came to mind that I thought was so silly considering it's the whole fucking point of the movie, was Melanie's kill. Because I was like, girl, all this was because you were trying to find out what happened to your sister, or you know, where did she go, etc. etc. And at the very end, at the yeah, literally, at the very end, it was like, you know what, bitch, fuck you. I want to live. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Peace out. It was not worth it. It wasn't worth it. We needed to be shown after hearing fifty times that you have to run towards something.

SPEAKER_06 55:07

Yeah. You're right. She ran towards it.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

That's true.

SPEAKER_06 55:10

That's true. She took that advocate that advice came full circle at the end.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Oh, it came full circle. Only 13 came full trapezoid, came full rhombus. It was fucking hitting up every corner of this movie. Don't sit still, don't stand still, keep moving forward. Gotta run towards something. All different variations of the same message. Don't sit on your ass.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

My god. The way my eyes are rolling to the actual back of my head. It felt so silly. It really did. I almost felt like damn Melanie, she don't give a shit about you for real.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

I think she gave so many shits, and then you know, bubbleguts got her.

SPEAKER_06 55:48

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

But okay, the creature effects were something to behold in this movie because I don't think that's exactly what I had in mind for a Wendigo looking like. But I think because I've seen like Anthropy take up this like humanoid bald ass form, and we've seen werewolves look like this. I think they also kind of look similar to this in the quarry, if I recall correctly. I w I didn't mind it at all. And Melanie with her little Wendigo face and her dress, I was like, oh, you look a little fucking spooky. I'm here for the practical effects. Incredible costume work, incredible makeup. This movie looks good. Even not even just the creature effects, but even just the set design as a whole. And an obscure thing that I want to shout out, I'm a sucker for a good transition. When we had our honeydew episode, I talked about a transition that I really liked that nobody else fucking liked. But I loved pushing in on the hourglass and then getting into the fucking open road, the car driving on the road that really set the scene in the beginning of the movie. Loved that shit, ate it right up.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

I have to agree with you in terms of the practical effects, definitely a highlight. The windigo don't seem as menacing in this movie as they do in the game, but I'm so glad that that's the case because the reality is that the windigo in the game, and I think in general, in terms of lore, might have to refresh my memory on what they usually look like, but they almost feel like Skeletor-like, you know? They're looking hella thin. And there's no way that they would have been able to replicate that in the movie unless it was with CGI. And then I worry that it would have been way too fucking fake. Like I'd rather it be the I think I read there was like six actors that played the Windigo, and four out of six of them or something like that, were all named Adam. So I'm glad that the Adams got their chance to shine. Yeah, for real. And I'm glad that it was like people playing these Windigo so that it just seemed more authentic and the fear felt more real than if it had been a lot of CGI, just to be like lore accurate in that regard. So in general, I thought it was really good. The look of Mystery Man, the killer, is fantastic, almost identical to the game. I loved it so much. That guy, if he pulled up, I'd be scared shitless. He was the weird looking. So when his head did explode, it was kind of cool. I was like, oh fuck.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

This is really making me excited to play the game. I left this movie wanting to play the game. I had intention intentions of playing it earlier today. But fuck, especially if you say that this guy is in it. And he's not just a creature that's just in this movie. No, no, yeah, he's in it.

SPEAKER_06 58:25

He's in it. I think that's the thing. I'm not gonna continue to talk about practical effects too much longer. I'm gonna get into something else because I know we can just talk all night about that great aspect of the film. But I think if they had done more CGI or all CGI, this would have been probably a terrible movie. So it was a very great choice to use the practical effects. I think using dancers for the Wendigo's was a great choice. I think using I think they even used an amputee actor to recreate certain moments of this film. Like it was very, very thoughtful. So that was really cool. But I'm gonna talk about probably just the cinematography because I think the shots we get throughout this film look fucking great. I think there was like I said it earlier, there were like a handful of shots where you had some really great angles, the lighting, the scenery. I think visually and the shots that they got, it felt really good. And I said it before, like those dark woods, those stormy thunderous type nights, the creepy cabins, they really made the set look so good. And I enjoyed some of the little Easter eggs we get in the movie as well, right? I think there was like a subtle one where the director appeared on one of the missing flyers on the board, which was kind of fun. So that's like I like that kind of stuff. So I think the cinematography and maybe some of the Easter eggs were one of some of my favorite parts outside of the practical effects in this film.

SPEAKER_03 59:46

I gotta go back to the Windigo thing because I think I was expecting something very different. I was expecting, I don't even know how you would say it, like the Jotun from the ritual. That was the kind of look I was expecting something from Antlers, if you're familiar with at least the trailer. I never actually watched it, but I saw the trailer, it looked familiar. And so when I saw these like skinny zombies, I was really thrown off. I don't think they were exactly what was doing it for me. They were fine, but it wasn't really interesting, honestly. I think, as you've mentioned, this mystery man was the best of the antagonists, the coolest looking, and the gigantic creature off in the distance that would stomp them into nothingness. That also, I was like, love the look of that. It's giving, oh gosh, the mist, but I love that thing. I wanted more of that. I was actually a little bit upset that we didn't get whatever that was. That whole like rain barrier though was so well done. I don't know what they did or how they did it or why it looked so good, but it was really cool. Is that in the game, Binks? Nope. Nope, great. So original original creation there looked awesome when they drove through it, looked awesome when they were pulling people back and forth through it. And it looked awesome, obviously, when we decided to go off in the middle of the night and find out there's a giant monster thing guarding the road.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

The giant thing off in the distance. I literally got almost up from my chair to look at one of my best friends, Lucy, and who loves the game too. And I looked, we looked at each other like, what the fuck was that? Because that certainly is nowhere near in the game.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:13

And at that point, it's the secret boss you haven't got to yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

Well, no, the thing is, like, at that point, it hasn't been revealed yet whether they have incorporated Windigos or not in this adaptation, right? So I was looking at her like, did they fucking make a windigo that huge? No, I'll be pissed. Now I'm gonna get really upset. So I was so confused, but definitely giving the mist for sure in that regard. And I have seen Antlers, by the way. So yeah, I also expected that if they were gonna do the Windigoes, maybe it'd be more on that front.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

But I think what we got was really cool. Something I've been dying to know beings since Mac just pulled back the curtain and asked about the rain barrier. My favorite scene in this movie was a compilation of scenes. And it's when the movie becomes a found footage movie, which I imagine Mac actually probably hated. Holy shit. I loved the way we were able to maximize and be more efficient with seeing some of these time loops by going through the greatest hits, the best of.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

I want to know though, were any of those clips, those vignettes, taken in any way from the game? I don't want to know the exact details because I do want to play the game, but am I gonna find something familiar there?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

First of all, I cannot even fucking believe that once again we have the same favorite scene, even in something where we don't agree. When will this end? Hilarious. Don't fucking know. But I've picked two other backups just in case. So there's fucking that. Yeah, no, the found footage part was incredible. That was giving very VHS. That's like another thing that they're gonna sprinkle into the blender, right? Which I loved. But to answer your question, no, none of them are really, yeah, none of them are in the game per se, but there is a found footage moment in the game. Does that make sense? So rem remember, yeah, because remember, there is no time loop thing to begin with in this game. That's not a component of the game whatsoever. So it's not like there would be that, but there is a moment where you would find a camera. Let's leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Yeah. So yeah, my my thought was not that there would be a time loop, but like any of those scenes.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

Particular kills, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

Yeah, scenes, or like I'm thinking about even just Max with a knife, shushing the camera, and then going by the Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

There's one scene in parti and this is where I'm playing through the game again and I'm a little foggy. There's one in scene in particular that it's not exact, but I think it's an homage to one of the potential kills that could happen in the game.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

Again, not precisely, but it's I feel like I remember that particular moment or like the setting and w or the way that it's filmed. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I don't want to give too much away, but it's similar to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

It certainly makes sense. I loved that whole fucking scene in this movie. I loved getting to see more. It felt like bonus, it felt like getting more bang for your buck. But it also just felt like such a great mechanic. Because we saw Abe filming earlier in the movie, so it's not completely out of nowhere, but it also felt like this really great opportunity to be a vehicle for those like game Easter eggs. That okay, the real ones are gonna fucking know, and then it's just fun for everybody else. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:25

Well, what I will say was another one of my favorite scenes that was uh definitely for the players of the game and the fans, is uh the scene where she's hiding from the windigo and the light is red, or like it's the whole setting where she's hiding behind the thing and she's like trying to be really quiet. Now it's not exact in terms of the setting of it, but that is a direct like homage to a particular and very foam famous moment in the game that is like it's in a lot of gifs, etc., where you have to be extremely still so that the windigo doesn't see you or doesn't sense you, and the windigo is like right next to your face, etc. So that particular moment is one of the scariest parts of the game and the most tense because at that point, like you've been doing a lot of these, don't even fucking move your controller or you're fucked.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:19

So it does feel like a video game. It also felt like the most tense part of the film, or one of the most tense parts of the films for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:27

Abs Absolutely, absolutely. So that was really, really nice. I was so glad that they incorporated that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

I enjoyed a very silly scene that got a lot of comment from the theater, and that is the dolls scene. And first of all, we open the door and we see that, and people in the theater went, uh uh. I was like, oh, that's great. That they're just out loud saying nope. And the drop kick that was great, the silliness, everything involved with that. I just for some reason that was giving me what I wanted from this.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

Yes, absolutely. Because that's so real, though. I'll give it that. I'd say, fuck that clown. Also, shout out to the set design of that room in particular. The lampshades themselves were little doll faces. It was increasing. Creepy as hell. Super creepy. Creepy as a game. But yeah. Loved it.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:14

Dang.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

It's giving stuff on. I'm telling you, clown cafe. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:18

Absolutely. Yeah, they have some creepy hotels you can actually stay at that are fucking riddled with fucking creepy clowns all over the walls and shit. It's like it's actually borderline, like too much to look at. Not even scary. It's just like overwhelming the amount of clown faces you're looking at. But yes, Binx, I think Clover like hiding from the Wendigo scene is definitely one of the better scenes in the movie. But I do want to highlight the towards the end where Clover is like crawling out of the ground where the grave marker was, and the hand pops out of the ground because that right there, I don't care what anyone says, is the most iconic scene in the entire film.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

It's giving evil dead.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:00

It's giving evil dead for sure. It's just such a cool look. You know what I mean? Like you're in a it's a grave site, you're the hand is sticking out of the ground, the lighting is right, it's like the moonlight, right? Like it's just such a good scene. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

I heard that the director was also inspired by the descent. And really, okay. Yeah, and I feel like that, although definitely way more evil dead than the descent, that scene reminded me of like, okay, I can see where maybe he was thinking that too, because like you're basically descending from the ground from the pits in the of the mine, right? So that's kind of cool too. But I no, I love that scene as well. That actually is another well, that was an Easter egg to the game. It the cross at the very least is a grave site that's prevalent in the game. So nice. Yeah, that was cool. That was definitely cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

I should want to dig in here because she went through some shit to make it out through that grave at the end of it. And I know that you all have some sentiments around the characters overall, but I do want to acknowledge I found them to be hilarious, heartfelt. I totally bought them as a friend group. One of the best fucking exchanges was when they're all talking to Abe and they're like, oh, three months before you, there was another guy. Three months before you, there's another girl. Julia, Julia!

SPEAKER_01 1:08:20

Julia.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

I fucking loved that shit. And the whole question there, then, of like, okay, they're in this together. This guy is an outsider, he doesn't get why they all want to stick together in quite this way. I really enjoyed this cast. I found them to all be really fucking charming. I think if any of them were weaker than they were, then I would have had a hard time stomaching this movie. But I felt some level of concern for them as characters. I wanted some of them to make it out to the end. I didn't think we'd get a realistically, most of them. I thought most of them would have died on the way out. I thought Clover would be the last one standing.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:59

But that was kind of like when I was talking about the ending, right? You get like the best of both worlds. You get to see these fuckers die like a shit ton of times, but then everyone ends up but basically everyone ends up surviving at the end. Like that's uh, you know, you get them both.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

I think this movie needed to go harder though, and I think we needed to lose some people. Ooh, more loss. I listen, like it would suck because I like them. However, I do think it's a little this was a lot of movie for no one to die except for the villain.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

Well, if we're gonna talk about why they made this game, or rather, why they made this movie the way that they did and not like the game, it's because they're adapt what they actually adapted is the butterfly effect struck gameplay structure, right? So people replay Until Dawn or games that are like Until Dawn because every choice that you make impacts the storyline and thus could also impact whether one of your characters lives or dies. And so a lot of the time you replay it so that you could hopefully get all of them to survive in the end, which I'm sure is what inspired them to end this movie the way that they did, to like make it feel like they're achieving that particular moment or you're getting that trophy, right? For letting them all live.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

You know what? I love that. That actually makes me like the ending more now. Okay, fun fact though, when I played the quarry, I replayed it because I kept wanting to kill Jacob and I can never figure out how to kill Jacob. That motherfucker's still alive in all my playthroughs, and I'm like, I want you dead. I want you fucking done.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

Of all the times that I've replayed Until Dawn, and it's been a lot, and I've taken a break for a few years, but especially when it first came out, I was relentless. There is one character that is so fucking hard to get them to live to the very end. It's infuriating.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:52

So in the case of this particular character that's always trying to go into violence, like you're trying to keep this fucker alive, and he's like, Oh, look at that sharp object over there. Let me go run into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

No, and it's pretty much, but it's like the sm one decision, one decision is what will change everything. Like you have to be so particular about the choices that you make with everyone to make sure that that character ends up at the end. But there's so many decisions and so many things that could like basically impact that that it's fucked. So in this particular ending, I'm like, well, you know what? At least me as an audience viewer, right? As a player, I get the trophy of them all surviving at the end. And after all the fucking shit that they've been through, the 13 kills and or that they've had to experience basically, it's like, all right, well, at least they made it at the very end. But here's the thing that little Easter egg about this game being like, or this movie being a prequel to the game is what is going to keep me up until dawn and then some. Because no, because if I haven't drilled the point enough, no, it's impossible. That's not even how that's not even how this works. You know what I'm saying? And Dr. Hall is a therapist. That part is true in the game, but he's actually not related to these people. Like he's not even that's not how he's in the game incorporated, right? Like Supermaster, the way that they do their games is like pretty like as if you had a narrator, you know? So there's that part. But in this movie, I'm glad that they wrote him the way that they did, because at the very least, we get lore about him because that's what we don't get in the game. In the game, he's just like some guy that's talking to you, the player, like like me, Bianca, you know, not someone else, technically. So I liked that he seemed menacing and intimidating, definitely off his rocker for sure. But when he gives that massive monologue at the end, I don't even know what the hell he was spewing. He was spewing all kinds of stuff, talking about fear, fueling.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:52

It was like a psychological aspect of the film that they didn't really explore heavily, like, oh, your fears depict what comes for you, like okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

And it was like, what? What so they were afraid of certain things, and that was never explored, like that was never said, even like in a throwaway line. So that's why they had a killer chasing them, or that's why they had a witch, you know? It just didn't seem make sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:16

Yeah, he was honestly one of the worst parts of the movie for me, but this fucking guy, he talked about this, right? It was this big fucking rant of exposition that was exhausting to listen to, and it's okay that you end up tuning out to watch Clover fucking move around his coffee mug anyway. But he talks about how the masked killer is calm and everyone's afraid of that. The witch, repression, explosion, you're self-destructive. And it's like, oh fucking K. Like it's a yawn fest. Normally, this kind of analysis of a horror movie would be great, but this guy is so ugh for me that I just was checked out the second he started talking.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:58

Yeah, it was definitely a case where they needed to perhaps not mention any of it. That whole like motivation behind doing it and just leave it a mystery and let us solve it at a later date or never pick one of those because I think it was kind of wishy-washy once we got to that point, didn't really add up. It was a very silly kind of motivation for an antagonist. But honestly, I think the worst part, Chris, for me might surprise you, and that is those seven extra deaths that we got that we didn't get to actually see. We got teased by it. We got to see that footage. We got to see what could have been, what we could have had. Some of those actually looked more interesting than people going smoosh out loud. And I think that's the worst part for me that we missed out, that there was more there that we could have enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:43

We still got it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:44

We just got a taste, and that was a dessert.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

What fucking year is it that Mac is saying I wanted more death and violence, and I wanted to see more. That's fucking crazy. I should be real, like my actual worst part of this movie is that Hayden Panantiers in the video game and not the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:59

Listen, let's talk about it, okay? Because she was giving actual Kirby energy in the game. Because she's the main she's the main character in Until Dawn, the game. So she's giving Kirby, she's giving Final Girl type energy in the game. Clover girl, let's do something, you know, let's get it together just a little bit. I mean, you did not give a damn about your sister. I just can't get over it. I I really can't. It's just so silly. It was all cheesy. Also, Max, like buddy, come on. Did you really like her that much? I don't know. Giving a little bit too simpy energy. However, the best part for me of this movie is those Easter eggs. I've got a few rattle off. I won't spoil because I I do hope you guys play the game, or I know Chris, for sure, you're gonna play it. But there's a lot of super small, subtle things, like one of them is wearing like a butterfly necklace. That's to talk about how the whole thing is a butterfly effect, it's a save game icon, so that was cool. The mining of it all, that is relevant to the game, so that's cool that they incorporated that. The setting is on on you know a mining accident that happened. The hourglass is the logo of the game poster, so that was cool. The restraining chair is one of the more like iconic settings for a potential kill, so that was cool. Hartley's is the name of a character, and then more famously Josh. So when Dr. Hall, and well, obviously, and Dr. Hall, but like when Dr. Hall is giving the patient papers, they take a moment to show you one patient in particular, and that's his name's Josh. He's one of the main characters of the game played by Rami Malik, who my friends that didn't see or play the game, they hadn't really seen the trailers or anything. When they saw his face, they were like, Is that Robbie Malik? And I was like, Yeah. Yes, Oscar Winner, Robbie Malik, yes, he is in until dawn. Go figure.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:57

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:58

So there was lots of little things that they kind of spewed in there, so much more that I didn't even mention, but I rattled off already a lot of them. But I thought it was really fun to at least, like, okay, if you're not gonna do it, at least give me this. And I they incorporated a lot of things that I didn't expect them to, which I appreciated.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:14

Yeah, I don't know. I think the worst part of this movie, it might be the fact that it is just based on a video game, because if it wasn't, maybe as a standalone, it probably would have been more appealing to the masses, I guess. I'm not sure. I feel like this movie's gonna be pretty split in reviews and ratings based on how true you want this to be to the game versus like how open you are to just watching this as a movie. But if it's not that, I feel like it's just that the story felt a little bit rushed and the amount that they threw in in an hour and like 43 minutes felt a little bit jumbled up. I think this could have honestly, this could have honestly benefited from being, as I said earlier, a limited series or something like that, where you can have time to develop the story and the characters further, and you can actually dive into this with a little bit of more extra time. But you know, what we get is what we get, and so take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

Oh, I'm gonna fucking take it because I want to take some extra time and re-watch this shit a few times. I don't know when. I don't think I'm gonna see it in theaters. But I think I want to do a playthrough of the game, then when it's available at home, I want to settle in, watch it. Then if we get maybe a movie adaptation of the quarry. That would be a great back-to-back double feature.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:31

I will be so pissed if they have the audacity to do what they did to Until Dawn the movie, and they do it to the quarry. The quarry has a setting where you could literally watch it as if it was a movie, which is like how much more blatantly obvious in terms of how supermassive runs its ship can you be? That being said, look, I know that I've been pretty critical of this movie. I actually would re-watch it again. I don't think it's gonna be anytime soon, though. Uh if the opportunity shows itself, you know, in the future, I'm not gonna say no because I really did have a good time laughing and the kills are fun. But for me, it's kind of like I just said right now, I would rather not to be that person, but I would rather just like play the game or watch a super cut of all the cutscenes. It's kind of like what is I'm doing right now. It in it kind of invigorated me to just revisit this game and actually play it for my friends that haven't seen the game, right? Like maybe stream it and stuff like that so that they can experience what the actual OG Until Dawn is about.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:34

Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really fun movie. I'm hoping that it will be just as fun on the next watch. I'm definitely looking forward to it. Probably not gonna catch it in theaters, but I will definitely be waiting for it to be available to stream.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

This would be an easy thing to stream. I think it's a lot of fun. And so it's one of those things that if it's available on one of the streaming platforms I'm subscribed to and I'm just chilling and it's a day off, you could throw this on and easily enjoy it, even throw it in the background if you wanted to and peer over every now and then and have some fun with it. So I don't know, like you, Sean, I don't think I'll see it in theaters again. I typically don't watch movies more than once in the theater because I got limited time in life. But at home, sure, it'd be an easy thing to throw on.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:14

Well, regardless of that intended rewatch, there you have it, folks, until Dawn has earned one hack and three slashes. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:28

If you want to find out how you can survive another night and put your name in our logbook and go further than this episode, consider supporting the show. You can visit patreon.com/slash hackerslash. This is where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our b-sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:49

And if you want to stay with us until dawn, leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us to continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:58

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, you don't survive by sitting still.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:02

You guys planning on staying another night or what?