390: Honeydew (2020)

SPEAKER_07 0:04

They look like they've been dusty for a hot fucking minute and their water is brown.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You like Codamum? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of here we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm drawn by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

No red meat, no pink meat.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

I didn't come all the way down here to Albuquerque to get fucked.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. We are living in a time of tribulation. This week's film is a 2020 horror movie starring Sawyer Spielberg, and was actually hand-selected for us by one of our dear patrons.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

And if you support the show, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we break down our own game plans for if we ever get stranded in the middle of nowhere in a horror movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

We recently held a terrifier franchise trivia night, and the grand prize on the line was the ability to select a movie for our lineup. Now our winner, Taylor, also happens to be one of our patrons. And she chose to include a film she nominated years ago. A film that would always make it to patron voting, but could never quite close the deal among the voters. The story follows a young couple who take a trip through rural New England while researching a fungal outbreak. But when their car breaks down, they find themselves stranded and seeking help at a secluded farmhouse. One that offers more than just a warm place to stay. This week we're talking about Honeydew. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Well, first I just want to say that for Taylor, I also have been nominating this film for years. Maybe not as hard as you have, but definitely have been trying to uh sneak this one in at some point, so I'm glad it finally made it. I have a very distinct memory of this film. I've only seen this movie once before, but I remember it extremely well. Chris, you know this because I shared this experience with you right after I watched it. I remember watching this movie on a fucking airplane with my wife. I think we were flying to California for a wedding or something like that, and we were scrolling through like some of the free movies. This was one of those movies, and we popped it on, and I don't think either of us were ready for what this movie was going to give us on an airplane where we already weren't comfortable, and this movie did not help with that feeling at all. And I'm sure the person next to me also was like, What the fuck?

SPEAKER_07 2:51

Yeah, I think I forgot that particular part of this origin story when it comes to this film because I could only imagine how it must have sounded like with those like headphones, those plug-in headphones when you're on the airport or the airplane. So that's uh that's something. Listen, folks, he is absolutely right. I heard about this film because of how often the two of you would bring it up in the past. And I remember I had a night with my brother two years ago. We did a little movie marathon at my dad's house, and that was a night that we watched Skinamarink, one other film I can't remember now that I know you guys had reviewed in the past. I wish I could remember it off the top of my head, but I remember Skinamarink distinctly because we had the episode shortly after and Honeydew. So that was definitely a very interesting experience to watch with my brother.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

Yeah, I just gotta say, I remember this movie being the beginning of Sean and I's friendship, but this movie came up when he still worked with me, and I think technically I was your boss, but I'm looking for I just searched Honeydew in my text, and one is about like, hey, do you know if you're gonna be like my point person at work? And then I was like, Yeah, absolutely. And then a couple weeks later, okay, it's called Honeydew. It actually came out in 2020. So he had told me about this in person, told me about how fucking weird it was to watch on the plane, and then I opted into that shit. And listen, it was fucking bizarre. And I think that's also how Taylor found out about this movie, and then she came to nominate it on Patreon. I can't remember the exact timeline of that, but when I watched this movie, I was like, what the fuck did this guy just have me watch?

SPEAKER_02 4:39

It's great, it's great. I love getting people to watch like the weirdest fucking shit because if I have to endure some wild, weird, uncomfortable shit, I want everyone to have that same feeling so we can talk about it afterwards.

SPEAKER_07 4:53

But that's completely fair, and that reminds me, what's that movie that the that your tattoo artist made you see? The Greasy Strangler. I was just thinking about that.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

If that ever gets on the show, holy shit, that episode's gonna be fucking gnarly.

SPEAKER_07 5:06

Okay, because listen, I'm gonna save my first watch for whenever that happens, because I was just too curious about Honeydew, so I watched it before we uh obviously literally two years later. Taylor, I'm so sorry. Damn, you have to wait two years for us to finally review this.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

Let's be clear though, because Teddy Omnon's for that.

SPEAKER_07 5:27

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Oh god. So it's been since I think 2021. Four years. There's that's like a whole fucking term in office.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

That's wild. It's been a long time coming.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

It's been years of me hearing y'all's reactions to this movie. That's what it's been years of. I still haven't seen it. Well, I I hadn't seen it until right now, and all I got to hear was your thoughts and your feelings while watching this. And so I think going into this, what you had set had me set me up for was like it was gonna be gross. It was gonna be shocking, and it was gonna be deeply disturbing. That was everything I got. I just was able to glean that from multiple people's reactions.

SPEAKER_05 6:01

You know, it's so funny that you say that because I couldn't even remember fully understanding what the fuck was going on the first time I watched this. I just remember it feeling really fucking bizarre. Not shocking and disturbing to the extent that some other horror movies might. I just remember it being a little head scratchy and a little bit fucking weird. You know what I mean? This is the kind of movie where there's close-ups of people eating things, and that's like a gross thing for me that I recognize is not really gross for everybody else. But there's some other shit in this movie where I'm like, what the fuck are you on about again? And then it just goes and trails off into very strange directions.

SPEAKER_07 6:41

So it's interesting that you bring that up because I thought about it this time around. When the two of you would go off about this movie, I think I interpreted you guys saying how weird it was as it being gory and extremely gross, very disturbing. But I don't think those were ever the exact words you guys said.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Weird was the word weird was the word that I said. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:04

That and that's on me. You know what I'm saying? Like that's on me. I heard all that, and what came like the input, but what the output was like, oh, so it's gross and it's disturbing and all of this. So when I watched it, I was like, okay, that's what's gonna happen. So aside from that though, and my interpretation of you know, you guys describing the movie, I knew nothing else of it because you guys did a really good job of keeping it spoiler-free. You never told us what it was about, who was in the main, like nothing. You told us nothing, not even the setting. You just kept saying it was weird, and I kept thinking or hearing, like, great, gory, gory, gory, gory. And that's actually not the case, folks.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Yeah, well, so because if you start trying to describe the movie, you're gonna start with the basics. And as soon as you start with the basics, you're just gonna think, maybe listening to that, or even just reading the synopsis, that you're just like gonna be watching a Teamu Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You know what I mean? It doesn't do it justice. You just have to like go into it and experience it and see if you like it or not. And we're gonna see where we all land because the reviews of this movie are like complete opposites. You either really love this movie or you think this movie is like mediocre or bullshit. Like it's one end of the spectrum, so it's gonna be really interesting, but I can see what you're saying. When you're hyping the movie up or trying to hype the movie up, you're gonna go into this movie with this really wild expectation. Like you both are saying, right? You were hearing about this movie and you went into it thinking this is gonna be an insanely gory, blow your mind, like what the hell is going on kind of horror movie. And I don't know, it's not necessarily because it's an extremely complex film, right? I think it's just that it's just a film that's hard to describe without just watching it and trying to figure it out for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

I get that. I really do get that, and I think I'll be a different example of having a reaction that doesn't line up with my expectations because while watching this, I was mostly waiting for something to happen and feeling a little bit impatient eventually about that. I was hoping that something truly interesting would happen. There was a lot of there's a lot of buildup in this movie in many different scenes, lots of tension. They laid it on thick, but then I just kept waiting.

SPEAKER_05 9:16

Yeah, there's certainly a lot to be desired if you're waiting or frame this movie as something in your mind where you're expecting there to be a ton of action, where I think this movie is more so in the tension that builds in its setting and figuring out what's going on with these characters. And I'll tell you, the first time I watched this, obviously, really fucking bizarre. It was a little uncomfy, a little confusing. There is a whole element of the plot that is absolutely crucial to the story coming together that I didn't quite understand when I first watched it. But I think this second time going into it, I found it to be less impactful. Like it didn't hit me quite as hard with how bizarre it could feel. I did though find myself, and I think it's probably just where I am right now mentally. I was still a little grossed out by it, but not like in a oh, this is gory, but rather like these people are fucking filthy. Like it looks like it smells bad in there. This is a bad movie to watch while you're eating Slim Jims, you know what I mean? It's just not a good time in that respect. It's the same way that Texas Chainsaw Massacre, save for the gore in that movie, but like the atmosphere is just very hot, sticky, sweaty. This feels not exactly like that, but very distinct. Like I could smell this movie.

SPEAKER_07 10:38

The fact that you specifically said Slim Jims while eating this.

SPEAKER_05 10:42

I mean, I was having a Slim Jim and I regretted it. I'm like, oh, this is not a good move.

SPEAKER_07 10:47

Yeah, I could see why. I could see why. I honestly gotta say, I think when I first watched it, I immediately told you guys, like, oh, like, what do you guys mean? That wasn't that bad. I felt very underwhelmed that first watch, but in hindsight, I think it really is that level of expectation and what I interpreted, right? I didn't set myself up for success on that first watch. So the second time around, I really felt like, damn, this movie was weirder than I remembered that first time. It has such interesting like shots and editing, a repetitiveness that I felt initially was really effective and eerie, but unfortunately, after a while, it kind of like got annoying a bit. There's the certain things like certain production elements that were constantly repetitive and very loud. The sound design specifically, it's intense, but after a bit, it's almost distracting. And I felt that way a little bit about some like the lines, the dialogue and such. So I bought into some of the weirdness and the bizarre nature of the film. And it is gross. There are certain scenes that are really effective when they're quiet because you can kind of like really sink your teeth into how fucking b strange everything is and how off it feels. Definitely agree with you in terms of like the smell. Like the senses get a little heightened, but then it just like switches up so fast. And so I felt mostly that the film was pretty obvious in terms of the plot. So I was kind of hoping to feel a little bit m stronger about all the other aspects of the film, like the color grading or like the set design, all these other things. But that actually what was most distracting for me, this second watch. So I'm kind of like at a weird place of like, okay, I like the weirdness, but then the overall sense of the film this second time around kind of felt more like vanilla. Like I wasn't I was less shocked than I should have been, which is unfortunate for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah, I think it's interesting. Chris, you said bizarre on the first watch, and I think I had the same feeling because and at least for me, it was just watching it maybe on an airplane or even just going into it for the first time, and maybe you know, you choose to pay attention to certain parts and not other parts, and maybe certain little things didn't land the same way as it did on the second watch, so it definitely felt more bizarre on the first watch. But I think that the feeling that this movie is is just unsettling, right? I think it's maybe one of the only strong feelings that you get while watching this movie. I think it's the most prominent one for sure. I think every moment, every scene, nothing feels right. Everything feels a little bit off from the way that the set design looks, right? Because you can feel it, you can almost smell it, like you both said, right? Like it's from that to even the sound design, Binks. I thought the score, I thought the score was really good in this movie. I think it it really added to this movie. We could talk about that a little bit later, but I feel like this is one of those movies that never allows you to feel truly settled into the movie. It just always wants you to feel like you're not comfortable sitting in this space.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I will give them credit for attempting that. I don't know that I feel as strongly positive towards those aspects of the film, you know, that as you do, but I think the thing that caught me off guard was a fun little addition of science. And it's a small part that plays a big part in what you imagine could happen or will happen or is happening. And so I think that was a really smart choice to make, at least for the story, because it keeps the viewer kind of trying to plan ahead and unable to do so, which is fun. And it makes up a little bit for the lack of, I don't know, I don't want to say action, but the action in terms of you know the story progression. There would there's a little bit missing there. And I think you know, you mentioned the tension, Sean, because it is very effective tension. They have a lot of it, but I think that wasn't balanced out for me with some sort of action.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

You know, one of the things that really surprised me is exactly what you shared, Mac. You think about like the balance of what the fuck is happening in this movie. Is there tension versus is there something that's just kind of being shoved in our face? And I found myself really surprised that there are moments in this movie that I don't remember for the first time watching it. For example, the opening moments of this movie, I completely forgot. I jumped straight to main characters in the car doing their shit. Sean, I don't know if you had the same experience. But in addition to that, I was surprised how differently I felt about the characters. There are some performances that I felt more favorably about, and then there are others where I'm like, okay, this is fucking obnoxious. I'm ready for this shit to be done. And not in a way that speaks, I think, ill of the movie, but rather it just was a completely different experience of how I was viewing the story.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

That's a really interesting topic because I also think one of the more surprising things about this film on a second watch for me is the relationship with the main characters or the protagonists in this film. Because hopefully we can break this down a little more in-depth, obviously, in the spoiler zone, because we can't get too far into it. But there was this interesting dynamic where I hated the characters as a couple, but felt more for them as separate characters in their own story. So I thought that was a very interesting dynamic that was kind of surprising for me in a horror film. And I think that the I think the most disappointing thing or disappointing aspect in this film, I think it's that the film thinks it's more elevated than it actually is. I think that's the disappointing part, like reflecting on this film. I it's really not that deep, right? But I feel like it comes off like it's this like big psychological horror when it's really just a disturbing story with a lot less depth than you might think.

SPEAKER_05 16:40

Yeah, this movie oozes and radiates Nepo Baby with Sawyer Spielberg just a bit, and then also we think we're A24.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Wow. That is so accurate.

SPEAKER_07 16:52

Let's get into that part. My biggest disappointment is that it feels like a forced arthouse film, or let me be specific, a forced horror arthouse film. I think that the premise and the overall disturbing nature of the film has a lot of potential. And at moments it works, which surprised me because when I had to do the switch of like, oh, this isn't gonna be disturbing and gross in the way that I thought, and that still felt a little underwhelming, but I appreciated certain moments on the rewatch, that still was effective and surprisingly even more so. But it was particular scenes, right? Like, and overall, there were certain moments where I was like, damn, this movie's running a little long, no? Like we could have cut to the chase a little bit faster instead of creating certain moments or dragging certain moments along to make it seem a little bit more artsy and such. I felt that stronger the second time around, which is unfortunate, right? But I agree with you. It's definitely giving, let's be A24. And I felt that art house vibe 100%.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

That gosh, yeah, I very much agreed here. And I think that also removes a lot of potential fear that you might have in this movie, is you kind of feel like it's trying hard while watching it, and you're like, yeah, this is creepy. You're right, like, yeah, this is super creepy. Oh, I see you guys trying to be creepy, and you put the creepy person in the creepy room and you had them do a creepy thing, and okay, I think I see where we're going with this. And like you said, it's a little bit predictable, and that reduces the effect of the stuff that really should be shocking.

SPEAKER_07 18:27

And let's be fair, because I do agree with you, but there were some scenes that were still weird as hell that would scare someone who doesn't dabble in this genre, or maybe even potentially dabbles in the thriller genre, and would get got one or two scenes. One in particular actually scared me, and I did do the little jump. I was like, oh shit, forgot about that part. But you know, but however, I think what you're gonna feel is like ew. You're not gonna feel like, oh my god, I'm terrified and I can't sleep. You're just gonna feel like that sound. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Okay, so I wanna dive in on that because the ewh, the ugh, the ugh is very real in this movie, but what else is real is unexpected and also maybe a little bit of unintentional comedy. I felt that way more this watch than the previous one. There's a little bit of the kookiness there when I first watched it, but there are some quotes that are dropped from one of our central antagonists that I'm like, I don't think you're saying this to be fucking hilarious, but you're a little fucking hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 19:40

No, there is one particular moment, it's like a reveal that I didn't quite laugh the first time. I was more like shocked. The second time around, because I forgot when there was a reveal, I was cackling, full-on laughing my ass off. So I can't wait to reveal what that was later.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Yeah, it's filled with these moments that feel like it tiptoes around dark absurdity, and it's almost like it's so brutal, it's so gross and just fucking out there that it's funny to laugh at. Because how could this be any realm of threatening? And it's fucked up because the actions that take place in this, we talked about they're not like super gory and things like that, but the very concept of it is pretty fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah, and that in and of itself is an interesting point, right? Because it is a movie that is kind of going over some topics, themes, whatever, that are in and of itself like gruesome, gory, and like horrific, right? But it also, and it'll gross you out, but it doesn't go over the top with the visuals. So it there is something to be said about a movie that can still unsettle you in some way, that can still gross you out in some way, that can still make you feel like it's off-putting and odd, even if it isn't scary, like it, and it's not like making the hairs on the back of your neck stand up or your heart race too much. But if it's still evoking the feelings of like something's not right, and it's there's like this lurking presence of dread, but it's also not showing you full-on like insane amounts of any one thing in these themes. I think there's something to be said about a movie like that. So it maybe not super scary, but you are gonna get some of those other feelings.

SPEAKER_05 21:30

Yeah, and I think there's that right there, Sean. I think it's almost like opportunity for nervous laughter. Just a little bit. Yes, just a little bit. A little bit. I think one of the other things, right, you talked about a little bit of things that you've seen before, maybe things that may feel familiar. You talked earlier about how you could look at this movie and feel like it's almost a Teemu Texas chainsaw if you describe it a certain way to someone who hasn't seen it. But I think what's interesting is that despite Being for me, like part X, part Texas Chainsaw Massacre, this movie manages to echo really familiar horror tropes while doing enough to still be very singularly honeydew in my mind.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah, a hundred percent. Like it doesn't obviously it's heavily inspired by movies like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, right? Or films of that nature for sure. But you're right, it creates its own story within this space of inspiration, and it is its own movie, right? Like it's gotta get some kind of points for that. Everything gets inspired by something, right? And and you can, Chris, you say it all the time. You can basically break anything down to the same exact formula if you're really trying to. So, yes, it has and explores a lot of these themes that are familiar to us, especially if you're an avid horror film watcher, but it does live in its own space. It is, I feel like, its own story enough for it to not feel like it's ripping anything off.

SPEAKER_07 23:00

I'm not trying to be entirely contrarian to that because I I can see what you guys are saying. I think a little contrarian just a little but just a little bit though, but just a smidge. Well, mostly because I kind of feel like what it does to separate itself from all of that, I don't know if it's entirely like effective or enough to say that it's like a great movie because of it. And not to say that that's what we're assuming, right? But I only bring that up because you know how some people might think, like, oh, it's super original, and thus it's great. A lot of original work can be shitty, you know? And I think what I struggle with this is that is that potential, that untapped potential that to me personally, I don't know if it fully saw it through. And it's tough because I don't want to necessarily, none of us do, like, want to get into what exactly the theme is of this film because you don't want to give it away. Obviously, this is spoiler-free. But what I will say is like when you watch the film, even within like maybe the first 15 minutes or so, you can probably guess what's gonna happen, these main characters or what the movie's about. So a little bit of that charm is removed and the surprise and the tension that's supposed to be felt. I think Mackie mentioned it earlier. Like for me personally, both watches, I didn't feel that tension because I knew exactly what this movie was gonna be. So I wanted everything else to make up and compensate for that, but some parts did for sure. And I think that what those particular scenes that I can't wait for all of us to get into, that shit is heavily original and very effective, very weird in the best way. But everything else that makes up the plot felt very derivative, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_05 24:40

Okay, I wanna put a little asterisk here on this thought because there is a very specific movie that I have not referenced yet, because it will, I think, tip the scales. But I think this movie almost sets the table for another movie that came after it, which we have also reviewed on this show. So we're gonna put a little asterisk there and cut and circle back to it because there is some stuff here that I think we're not acknowledging and giving this enough credit for.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

There's something interesting going on here. I feel like we've achieved a new sub-genre, and that's mostly based on like SETI, and that's mostly based on like setting and storyline, something that this movie shares with several other films. And it's not necessarily the Texas Chainsaw Massacre that I'm thinking of. It's movies like it's movies like Tusk or The Human Centipede, where I feel like it's achievable because of the scale of the film, because of maybe the locations that you can scout and how trimmed down you can make it. But it is like its own thing there, where we're seeing a lot of movies where yes, we're out in the woods, we're out in a remote location, we can mostly shoot in a couple locations, and we can focus our setting and our set design on one location. Everything else is kind of like added, you know, we'll do a little bit of work here, a little bit of work there, but it's more attainable because we have it so streamlined and so focused. And normally I'm the one who's like really into that. I like streamlined, I like focus, you know, make a horror movie in a single room, I'm here for it sometimes, depending on if you have some action going on or not. But I think here is interesting though is that while you're watching this, you know, you you feel like, yes, this is similar to other stuff that I've seen, but I think that's because it's now its own subgenre. And so I don't think you could complain that slashers seem like other slashers because that's the genre they're a part of. And I think this is in the same boat now. I think we've got enough films under our belt that are similar to this in terms of setting, in terms of storyline, and in terms of that streamlined kind of setup where it's like, yeah, that's the shtick, is that's what you have to go for. And I think for me, when we make it all the way to the end, that's when you got to deliver. If you've seen Tusk, you know, that's what has to happen, right? We have this crescendo. And that's what kind of lacks here at the end for me. I think the ending was supposed to be shocking. They had the elements literally there on screen happening in front of us, but they padded, they added a little bit too much, and it actually removed that crescendo effect. So instead, it feels a little bit more drawn out, and I think they could have trimmed this down by maybe like 10-15 minutes and used the work they had already made, and it would have been like a punch to the face with, oh my gosh, I can't believe they did that. And instead it was like, I can see what they tried to do.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

Yeah. This movie is grim, and its ending is grim, and it's certainly a recipe for disturbing, but I think it fucking leaves an impression for sure. And there's a fate that is revealed that I think does enough to almost redeem some of what I found was lacking in a lot of our characters leading up to that. So this third act, while it has its peaks and valleys, I think the final resolution we get is what makes this movie really memorable.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

That is interesting. I actually thought that I was gonna be like one of the only people that enjoyed the ending of this movie in some way, right? Because a lot of times when we have endings like this, most of us don't really enjoy it. Like we're looking for a different outcome or whatever resolution. But I like a dark ending, it doesn't give you the satisfaction you crave by the time you get to the end of the movie. Sometimes that shit hits different. That's the kind of stuff that maybe lingers with you a little bit, makes you think about the movie a little bit longer when it's over, right? Because you don't feel right about it from the moment the film starts, and you don't feel right about it when the film ends.

SPEAKER_07 28:31

That's a great way to put that. Definitely don't feel right about it. That's for sure at all. And I completely agree with you in terms of this ending. Surprising. I think when if people watch this and then they listen to the spoiler zone and they hear our thoughts on that, they're gonna be like, wow, really? They thought XYZ about this ending? Because it's different. It's definitely different. Memorable, that's for sure. And probably the weirdest part, I'd say, just really takes it up a notch. I do agree that it maybe goes a little too far over the ledge, could have ended a little bit earlier in that particular last scene. But you know, I guess while we're here and while we're being weird, let's just fucking send it is the best way I can summarize that.

SPEAKER_05 29:10

Oh, I 100% agree, and I can't wait to see how our feelings on the end really fucking send us into our ratings. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Well, we've already kind of been talking about it, right? For what this film is depicting, you would actually think that it would be way more gory than it actually is, because this film is oddly fairly moderate when it comes to the gore. Like, sure, you see blood, you see maybe some amputated limbs, kind of, there's some gory-looking wounds and whatnot, but it's really not as bad as you might think. And because of that, this one is getting a low gore score. And if I am DB, who rates nearly everything as severe gore, rates this as moderate, then I feel fucking justified in this low gore score.

SPEAKER_07 29:56

And what about the animal report? So one animal does take a hit, not entirely seen, but like enough, where I would say it's a little fishy, but I gotta be honest, the reality is that it's going to feel like the least of your worries in the grand scheme of this film.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Honeydew from 2020, brought to us by Taylor. Was it a hack or a slash? And I think I want to kick this off real quick just to get this out of the way. How fortunate am I that this movie is what partially brought Sean and I together at a very early time? I'm always grateful, Sean. No matter how the ratings work out tonight, you and I will always have honeydew. The reality is that this movie doesn't hit as well the second time around. I think there's a new appreciation for some moments, but I think the bizarrness of it, the oddity of it, just doesn't feel the same. But it was still uncomfortable to watch. I mentioned earlier it's part X, it's part Texas Chainsaw Massacre, part this third film that I'll reveal in the spoiler zone. And I think it's also standard fair, right? For don't fucking trust people that you turn to when breaking down in the middle of the night. It's never a fucking good idea in these movies, so maybe it shouldn't be a good idea to you. But I think aside from that, while I agree there are moments where it really fucking tries too hard and it thinks it's something it's not, it's still a spectacle. It's still really well shot. I think it's still really well edited, and I think it's exceptionally well scored. It could have been more brutal, absolutely, but it is still uncomfortable enough to leave an impression. And I hope you out there find your honeydew with some of your horror friends. It's still a slash.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

How can anyone follow that up? But I'm gonna try. Because honeydew tries to be unsettling. It's a slow burn, it's grotesque, but instead, honestly, it just drags itself into a coma of mediocrity. It tries very hard for a creeping sense of dread and shocking body horror, but most of the runtime is spent on awkward meandering scenes that build neither true suspense nor payoff for this guy. The atmosphere is there, but the film mistakes this sluggish pacing for tension and making it feel more like an endurance test than a nightmare. If you're expecting this non-sabrage of sickening horrors, prepare for disappointment. Most of the horror is lost in long, drawn-out moments of waiting around. By the time anything nearly disturbing happens, it's too little, too late, and too long in the tooth. It is a hack for me.

SPEAKER_07 32:28

Listen, I'm gonna go next because I believe in this philosophy of a sandwich, you know, where it's like a positive, negative, and then a positive. So I feel like that's what we're gonna do here, okay?

SPEAKER_05 32:37

I'll just pencil in that hack.

SPEAKER_07 32:38

I'm just saying, you know? I really thought on a rewatch, this film would sink its teeth into me a bit more. And that's not to say that I didn't like it initially, but more like the film didn't live up to the hype both times of having watched it, truthfully. And I've seen a lot more horror films in the last two years, especially some weird ones, for sure. And this honestly didn't surprise me as much as it needed to. A couple things that I haven't talked about yet, like characters-wise, lacked some depth that I didn't really latch on to them too much, not even the second time around. And I did mention that overall, like the the theme and what was gonna happen felt like a bit of a given. So I felt like a recipe of starting on a wrong foot, right? And so although there were some scenes that I thought were great and really effective in creepiness, honestly, it felt like I wished the whole film felt like those particular scenes. Because the tension felt there was great. But when it ended, I was like, fuck. And honestly, it was like really overstimulating, but in an annoying way, not in a way that like made me feel like it's getting under my skin and I'm feeling uncomfortable. The second time around it felt annoying. And that sucks because I think if I had done my first watch now that we're recording it, kind of like Mac, I actually think I would have slashed it. Because although I was a little disappointed that first watch, I think I wasn't as impacted by the sound design and all these other things that I've mentioned. I know you guys love the score, but for me, that was a big factor in the overstimulation. But this time around, unfortunately, I felt like, yeah, it's got good bones, but the sum of its parts do not qualify it as a slash. So I am I am going to give it a hack.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

This went almost exactly as I thought it was gonna go for sure. I here's what I like about Honeydew. Some horror films try to unsettle you with the gore, others with suspense, right? But Honeydew unsettles you, I feel like, in a different way. I feel like it's a festering discomfort that seeps in slowly. You know what I mean? Like from the moment it begins, this film is full of these grotesque oddities. It forces you to marinate in them. But what makes Honeydew, I feel like, so uniquely unnerving is the sound design, the score, because but the score by John Merriman doesn't just complement the film's tension. I feel like it helps drive the tension. I feel like it's this hauntingly eerie mix of these, you know, dissonant or off-key chimes, those strings kick in, and then the sudden and like erratic bursts of noise out of nowhere, like they're off-putting, they don't belong, but it works. And I think all of this, it kind of like worms its way into your brain. It's almost amplifying the grotesque visuals and making even like some of the duller moments feel wrong and off-putting. So the score for me almost plays as its own character in the movie at times, but it isn't perfect by any means. Like that this film, I feel like flirts with the idea that it's elevated horror, it's dressing itself up with that slow burn tension and its dreamlike approach. I feel like it suggests something deeper than it actually is, and sometimes it feels like it's being weird for weird sake. Honestly, it plays off of themes of food, health, control, but never really commits to saying anything concrete. So it's got its ups and downs, but I feel like if you can stomach its bizarre rhythms and its grotesque imagery, then I think it might just be a rotten feast that's still worth a bite. And it might not be the gourmet horror feast that it pretends to be, but I think it's still one hell of a disturbingly delicious dish, in my opinion. So it's a slash for me, even if you regret taking that first bite.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

There you have it, folks. Honeydew from 2020 has unsurprisingly been split down the middle, earning two hacks and two slashes. But we have so much more to talk about when we get back from our break. If you haven't seen this movie yet, you can find a link in our show notes to see where you can watch it right now. Go check it out. Then join us in the second half so we can really break down the spoilers, exactly how fucking bizarre this movie is, and what that other movie is that it reminds me of. What's the end of that?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

Are you tired of the same old breakfast routine? Well, Rise and Shine Horror Hounds introducing Stortico's, the official cereal of Hacker Splash. It's the wheat flake cereal so good it's totally killer! Harvested from fields with a questionable history, our Stortico wheat is infectiously delicious and guaranteed to leave you craving more. Tastepoonful delivers a psychotically delicious taste sensation that will have you losing your mind over breakfast. Literally, it's a choice of cafy champions everywhere. But that's not all. Regular consumption may lead to out-of-body experiences, phantom limb sensations, and an overwhelming desire to stay for breakfast forever! So pour yourself a bowl of tortico, because nothing says good morning like a touch of madness with your milk. Don't forget to try on a new flavor! Tortico's Honeydew Madness. It's a slice of madness in every bite! To pour yourself a bowl and start your day, the sortico way.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Yeah, I was about to say, there isn't much to write home about here. With only one kill, it's kind of hard to have a favorite kill, but let's talk about Gunny's kill. Because first and foremost, did everyone catch that Gunny was the hunter from the beginning?

SPEAKER_05 38:50

Yes. He did look exactly like him. But here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

It was too obvious.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

This moment, and obviously I had seen it before and piece it together. Seeing him in the beginning, I was like, oh, it's Gunny. But remember, I didn't remember that fucking beginning of the movie. I don't know what the fuck was going on. Sean, like you watched it on a plane. I watched it, I thought it was on Shudder when I saw it. I don't remember those opening moments at all.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Yeah, I remember bits and pieces of like the sortico shit, but I do not remember the Gunny's Hunter opening at all. Like that whole opening is lost to me.

SPEAKER_05 39:28

The sortico, absolutely. The car ride, yes. Them him reading the fucking script and her reading her botany shit, yes. But Karen with a black veil and like a funeral type of situation and the gunshot, do not fucking remember that one bit. So seeing him this time, one's like, oh hey, there's that guy. And you know, with the hindsight of knowing what comes of his character, I would say that his absence, his expiration in this movie, and the realization of the suffering that he has endured, it made his death more impactful emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

It's interesting. I had no emotion attached to this character, unfortunately. And I guess it was clear that he got taken out at the end, but I'd kind of hoped for more. I think I had hoped it was gonna be like really brutal and on screen for some reason. Maybe that's from watching all the stuff that we watch. Perhaps I was a bit desensitized and ex expected some really sick stuff to be shown. I think his little redemption arc at the end though was great. I like that. I was like, good for you, Goody. That's right, do the right thing only because you've been told to. I like it.

SPEAKER_07 40:29

A for effort. That's how I feel about him. A for effort.

SPEAKER_05 40:33

And maybe realistically, B for bare minimum. The man got lobotomized, folks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

I mean let's give him some credit. A terrible ending, a terrible fate for sure. I don't think it's like really the emotional attachment that they're looking for. And I honestly don't know that they were looking for anyone to actually be surprised by the fact that this dude was gunny if you were paying attention. I think anyone should be able to piece that together. But I do feel like you're just the more you think about the situation and the more you kind of like start thinking about like, holy shit, what would it feel like to be in that situation? And can you even fathom it? That's the shit, that's the horror that kind of settles in to your gut, and you start thinking about like this fucking dude is being literally and slowly eaten alive.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

Which is fucking gross. So I mentioned a couple minutes ago in our spoiler-free section about the other movie that this reminds me of. And now, as you say this, I want to bring up another movie that I'm reminded of in retrospect. Fresh.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 41:43

There's that.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

But the one that I was really going on about earlier was the agricultural twist on this and when evil lurks. When evil lurks is this movie, but it decides to go away fucking harder and really say some important shit.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Right.

SPEAKER_05 41:59

And it's more successful at being elevated and cerebral than this one is.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Whereas this one did not like commit to that as much. Like it gave you the setup, but then it was just like, yeah, that's just the setup, and here's this like weird story within it.

SPEAKER_05 42:16

Yes, but like agricultural horror is something that I don't think we tap enough into. And we should.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

For sure.

SPEAKER_05 42:21

Because in this economy, with the price of eggs, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

If you can find them.

SPEAKER_07 42:26

That's a good point. No, because I think what agriculture horror like heightens is what we're kind of not trying to bring up in the spoiler free section was like this concept of gluttony, of scarcity. That's like a serious thing that'll drive anyone mad, obviously. And so when you're out in like desolate area, you know, where you would think that you have an abundance of resources, but something keeps you from that, like this fungus, you're gonna lose your shit, uh literally. And you can't get help in the same way that you would, like in When Evil Lurks specifically. But yeah, that's a great point. And funny that you brought up fresh because damn, I mean the literal fresh of it all.

SPEAKER_05 43:12

I can't believe I didn't even think about that.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Agriculture is horror.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

Mm-hmm. Future farmers of America would tell you that too.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Oh, yeah, like that's just that. That's just the statement. Agriculture and farming, that is just horror right now, if you really look into that business.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Gosh, this whole thing made me think of not a movie but a TV show, specifically season five, episode three of The Walking Dead. If you made it that far, you know what I'm talking about. It's an episode called Strangers. There's a character called Bob, and he says a phrase tainted meat, and that's for some reason the only thing I could think of making it into the end of this movie. And unfortunately, it's not the same kind of situation because that would have made life so much more interesting. But there's no zombies here. But I think as they're like doing this whole like slow eating of their victims. For some reason, that's what I was reminded of.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

I mean, like now that you say it, yes, absolutely. You can easily watch this back now with that in mind and just be waiting for like Rick and the gang to like stroll through this farm and be like, Girl, let's go. We found a shelter, man. And then the next thing you know, these guys are fucking tied up. One of them's getting eaten alive right in front of them. They're like, oh, oh. And then the next thing you know, they're fucking killing the fuck out of these people, too. So you know, season fucking 14 or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 44:29

But that would mean that honestly, that Karen is a better gunslinger than Rick and everybody else, which the movie made it seem that way. She was out here with that needle, like blau, blow.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Like damn. Yeah. I have more to say on Karen later, but like good on her for capturing the spirit of America there. She had no fucking quit in her.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Not one bit.

SPEAKER_05 44:53

I actually want to go back to this a second. I know we're talking about the story. But one of the things that I love most about this movie is how disgusting but beautiful it is, and in terms of not only how it's shot, but also how it's edited. I know that there are components of this that do lend itself to that attempting to be art house, the I think we're saying something more than we are actually saying. But there are a lot of specific choices in here that really set the scene exceptionally well. And I think those cuts combined with a terrific score really made this a complete package. I think without that, this movie is substantially weaker.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

So true. Those edits, those jumps we get, those cuts between scenes, the way they splice them together, they are responsible, I think, for a lot of the WTF you're going to be feeling while watching this because you're going to have that reaction as they're happening, because it's unclear why some scenes seem like they're spliced together in the moment, or why some scenes suddenly jump from one to the next, and it creates that atmosphere simply by the way that they edit it. That's masterful.

SPEAKER_07 45:58

I feel like you sense that the most in the intro, or at least that's what I think of as you guys are talking about it. The intro where it just kind of like pans from her in the car and then back to him in the bathroom practicing his lines and like just that whole bit was giving a little bit like 70s music video to an extent where I'm like, at any point in time, we're gonna see like a little whirl, you know, of a transition. It was odd, but I liked it. I wasn't mad at it. I think that costumes as well were great, in particular, like the my favorite scene that we'll get into the dream sequence. I think like the costuming was gnarly in that, and in general, like makeup too, like they they do look gross, they look disheveled, they look like they've been dusty for a hot fucking minute and their water is brown, you know, and and that's good because that's what I expect. Could you imagine if they were like lavish? And we've probably seen those cannibal films too, where like they look very clean and pristine and sterile, but in this case, when we're getting the Texas Chainsaw vibe, right? And that particular genre or subgenre that you're talking about, Mac, like you have to have a like a sense of like griminess to you that I thought was effective and really good.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. I also really like the editing. I can tell you that I didn't like some of the transitions that we got in this movie because we got some really we got at least two or three like really dumb transitions. I'm thinking of like there's like a campfire transition that I absolutely hated. There was like a tent scene that transitioned into a sex scene that I thought was really stupid. I love that. I did not like it. I think those stood out. I don't know. I liked the editing. I didn't like some of the transitions that that the scenes went into. I can also talk about the score all day. You know, I I think it takes on a life of its own. I think it's really good and I fucking like it, but I'm not going to continue on that trend. I'm going to go back to what you were talking about, Chris. And I think one of the best parts of the film, outside of all of that, is definitely just the set design and the atmosphere that it creates, which kind of plays right into what you're talking about too, Binx, because it is just when a movie like makes you feel the environment that you're in, whether you're inside or outside. If any of you get a feeling of what this place smells like, then kudos to this film for making you feel that, right? Because I think it does speak to what the film visually is able to give you. And it's not even shock factor, it's just the atmosphere and the set design.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

So true. This was the thing that I latched on to as well. Because, you know, if you walk into a house in the middle of nowhere and it's an old person in there, you might be thinking like lovely things like grandma core, cottage core, whatever. We're into it these days. We like rad trad and all that kind of stuff. Whatever. But if you walked into this house, you would still feel uncomfortable. Things are a little bit too old, a little bit too grimy. It's not cute anymore. It is a bit too creepy now. Just that kitchen alone, the dining area in that kitchen, but the actual cooking area, the fridge that they chose, the set dressing here is beautiful. They, I mean, it's disgusting, but like they just did such a great job nailing every little detail that you can feel the grime on the countertops when you see them cooking. You know that there's just splashes of oil everywhere that no one's been able to clean up for however long. And it is so nasty and so gnarly. And that translates pretty well into the basement when we're down there, especially when we're introduced to it in the dark. That was fantastic. You're looking around going, don't, don't go in there, perhaps. Perhaps that's a stupid choice for you to walk into that basement because it's not just an empty, open, okay, here's your cot kind of basement, but maybe you get trapped. No, it's like there's something disgusting about that basement that I wouldn't want to fall asleep in there, especially the bed that's been made for somebody else for however long. Absolutely not. I'll sleep on the floor.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

They literally get really comfy in that bed really quickly and comfortable enough to hop in the shower. That's the one thing that really gets to me in some of these horror movies is that we see some people hop into some showers that are super questionable, right? Like I would I don't even feel comfortable like going barefoot into a gym shower or any kind of anything like that. And so there is no fucking way that I'm gonna be lured into this dingy old basement in the middle of nowhere and then hop into the shower.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

And then jack off in the shower.

SPEAKER_02 50:33

And then in somebody's shower, yeah, like the audacity this dude has to like rub one out in the shower of somebody else's basement. Like, what the fuck is happening?

SPEAKER_05 50:44

Was it was it any fucking Alexander Skarsgard moment from Infinity Pool? Was it enough of that for you, babes?

SPEAKER_07 50:50

No, no, it was nowhere near.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

I mean, if we got to see the the flop, you know?

SPEAKER_07 50:57

No, I just can't wrap my head around how you're even like in a state where you think that's a good idea. That's concerning, red flag, just wrong. Just wrong.

SPEAKER_04 51:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 51:10

Like, how do you feel like I it it couldn't be me? That makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_05 51:15

Maybe he has a thing for older women.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

I do have to give some credit to one of the scenes that our great value Michael Bublet is in, though, and that is him getting up in the middle of the night, just completely mesmerized by the food that he'd had earlier that day, because he's just dreaming of salt and sugar and fat and all this delicious stuff, and just goes up there in a trance and starts shoveling it into his mouth and is placing his head down on the table and praying to God in thanks because when you have to have such a restricted diet after such a long time, oh, that moment is real. Especially you had some real like made-at-home kind of stuff where they don't care about how much butter is in there. You know that moment is gonna be pure bliss. And that part it was so weird because you're like, what is he doing? But at the same time, I totally understand where he's coming from in this moment.

SPEAKER_07 52:02

Yeah, I don't blame him at all. That's why we talked about this in the in B sides, but like to be on that strict of a diet where you're not even consuming a what did he say, a gram of salt or like any salt at all? Because I know the cholesterol's high, yes, blah, blah, blah. But like, dude, what the fuck? I don't even know how you manage something like that. Obviously, we all know quite literally shouldn't be me, but that's just next level. However, that gluttonous nature is why my favorite scene is that dream sequence because it reminded me of Lynch. It was giving like heavy Lynch vibes, because that's where the art house of it all felt effective. It was very weird but authentic. You know, he's watching the cartoon Popeye, so obviously, like that penetrates the subconscious, and so he sees everyone in these like costumes and characters as if they're in Popeye, but the editing of that is so strange. You know, Riley's like has her back to him or to the camera rather, and just turns around like very creepy. Everything felt like so off, but it I loved it, and I felt like there were opportunities where the film had some moments just like that a bit where it didn't have to be so obvious, but that particular scene, I was like, Man, also just the stills from it too felt really nice. Like I was like, ooh, this is artsy, but a good artsy, man.

SPEAKER_05 53:28

See, I don't know, I couldn't get into that at all. And in fact, I thought that was one of the worst parts of the movie for me because but here's the difference between you and I being you love that art house shit, and I don't. So it makes sense, it tracks the math, it's math, and I get it. Me, I'm a simple gal. I like a setup for a slasher. So Sean, you talked about how you didn't like the transition from the tent to the sex scene, but here's why I liked it not because it's a sex scene, because I usually don't actually like those in movies, but because it was fucking exceptionally well done to have that fucking subtle fade and the framing of that, to frame her back within that, that takes a level of artistry. And I thought that was exceptionally well done. I loved that moment, but not only for us to have that transition, but really just to kind of see where they are in their dynamic, and then Eulis interrupts them to basically say, get off my fucking lawn in a very nice way. It's uncomfortable, it's unsettling. And what it also reminded me of was the early 2000s remake of House of Wax. Oh, yeah, where these kids are out here doing their own thing, minding their own fucking business, and not my neighborhood strolls up on them, and then all of a sudden they gotta get going. I really fucking love that. It's the entire moment of them being interrupted to basically be evicted from this moment, and then where they end up basically everything up until the dinner scene. I loved this setup. I loved this way of us seeing, okay, how do these fucking people get into the shit that they're getting into? It's pretty by the book, it's what you would expect for a horror movie, but I still enjoyed the ride and seeing the circumstances that befell them that caused them to knock on that farmhouse door.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

For sure. That makes total sense for you because it those are the moments where it's really playing heavily into the familiar tropes that I think we all love as horror fans. So you're gonna naturally kind of be drawn to that kind of stuff. And to your point, Mac, that scene where Sam is eating that meat for the first time to be depraved of meat and red meat and salt and all that butter for so long that unknowingly just eating most likely someone's leg is just like the most divine thing that you've been that you've tasted in however many months or whatever, however long it's been. Like initially you watch that scene and may it might not sink in, but the more you think about these scenes, the more disturbing I think it is, right? The fact that he like truly had this intense moment of enjoyment as he was like eating human flesh, and the the fact that we don't know the scene where Karen is like force feeding Gunny the meat, right? Like, we don't know if that's that girl in the box. We don't know if it's Gunny's own flesh himself, and that's why he's flipping out. Like there, there's so much there's so much, I think, in those moments that where you like think back on it and you're like, hmm man, that is actually disturbing. It may not be like super deep, but it's really fucking disturbing. And Binx, I think you mentioned like the Popeyes cartoon, the Popeye cartoon, right? I mean, I feel like Skinnamarink took heavy inspiration from that, that eeriness of an old cartoon just playing over and over again, right? Like that I think is something that has inspired movies to come. So I think that's really cool. But to think of another scene that we haven't talked about, man, I gotta say, maybe it's Sam looking for Riley as he like starts wandering around and he goes into the barn or whatever that was, and we see like we see Karen sitting there all creepy as fucking hell. He doesn't notice her, he's in the dark, shuffling about, and then she attacks him with the shot of whatever the fuck from behind, and that is just such a creepy element of this film. Maybe not a jump scare, but it is one of the more creepy elements. It's giving Pearl for sure.

SPEAKER_07 57:41

It's giving X. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. When I mentioned earlier that I like did actually get got, it was that scene. Because on the flip side, because that's my second favorite scene for sure. Whereas the Popeyes in the Dream sequence is like art house for me and effective. I loved that scene because it's a classic horror. Like we see something and we're just waiting for that person to be clued in on what we see. And man, just like how sinister she is that she's just watching, she's comfy as fuck. She's there, legs crossed, just waiting, she's having a smile. You crazy bitch. And that's why I kind of like I said it earlier. Karen's a gunslinger, okay? Don't be fooled by her. I don't even how old is this lady? Maybe like 75. I don't know. She's pushing it. Who knows? But she's agile. There's something to her because when she quickly, with a swiftness, stabbed him when I believe in the ass. I don't even know, but like she stabbed him real good. I was like, ah, oh my god, she moved real fast. Like, how did you not even hear her? I don't know. I had mad respect. It it scared me.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

It definitely moves so slow the whole movie. You're not expecting her to move that quickly. She literally is a fucking snail the entire movie.

SPEAKER_05 59:02

She lured you, she lured you into a false sense of security, and she pulled a fucking Yoda on your ass. Yoda's walking around here with a cane, and then all of a sudden, Count Dooku shows up one fucking time, and then he's got his little green lightsaber bouncing off everything.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Yeah, fucking backflipping in the air, no issues, no cane needed.

SPEAKER_05 59:21

Exactly. But that's the cool thing about Karen. She really, I think, stole the show for me this time around. It was her little bits of comedy. It was, oh my gosh, okay, the fucking ending where it's disgusting. And she's forcing two people to have sex because they want to have the illusion of like grandkids. But she's raising cattle. What do you mean? She says, leave room for the Lord. Leave room for Jesus in what you're doing. What the fuck is that? But the way that she plays and really lures them again into this false sense of security in and out of consciousness or togetherness, right? For anyone else, you would think, okay, she's just beginning to go. But in all actuality, she's sharp as fuck. But she's creating these moments and she's weaponizing her age and knows exactly how they're responding to her.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:15

Which is why, like on the second watch, I started to think about this fungus. I'm not even gonna try to say the word because I'm not gonna say right, but the fungus that's obviously impacting their crops. I didn't realize when I first watched it that they might have been susceptible to that fungus and that it's probably driven them crazy. That hit me more so the second time around. Yeah. And then when you think about how sharp she is, because the strategy is still there, it's like, oh, but this is even crazier because to us, we know that they're consuming this fungus and it is driving them mad, but it's not the kind of mad that we're used to. If this was the last of us, you know what I mean? Then we would think, like, okay, well, mad and crazy, and they'd be tweaking and shit. But no, that's not really the kind of mad that we're talking about in this film. It's something else. It's way more sinister.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

It's so good though, because it's such an effective red herring that as soon as you see Goonie all bandaged up and everything, you're assuming, oh, flesh is coming off, these people are eating all this infected stuff, and you you don't put two and two together when he's just sitting there yelling, that's my cheek. Like, hey bro, you're eating my frickin' cheek. Or at least trying his best to, because the best we got was chalk out of that one. But chalk. You're just like, oh, he's yelling, that's weird. He's greedy over perhaps the human body parts that they're eating. We don't really know exactly what the situation is here because it could be cannibalism, it could be this fungal thing. We don't really know that that was really like a solid choice to set us up for that. It was almost too obvious to begin with. We're like doubting it, and then the further we get in, you see her finger, you see his wound, you're like, oh yeah, totally, that's what's going on here. They're going insane because of eating the stuff. And little do we realize it's completely unimportant. It doesn't matter, even if it is that stuff, as that's just a catalyst to get things moving in the right direction. And it's just so nasty to see how into it these two old people really are, where they're devouring their neighbors and the their own daughter, apparently, and these strangers, and even more strangers there at the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

It is crazy for sure. And I think it makes Karen this like almost unexpecting good antagonist that you don't really maybe notice at first, but the more you think about it, the more you're like, oh man, that's actually a good antagonist. Eulis is just kind of like an accomplice, almost, right? Like very almost unimportant in the film for most, if not all, of the movie. And I do want to talk about Sam and Riley because, as I mentioned before, I just want to talk about the dynamic of those two. Because for me, those two and their relationship was complete crap. Like, I didn't buy into their relationship at all. I don't think they worked well together, I don't think they had very good chemistry together. Also, Sam was kind of a fucking asshole, so you honestly don't like Sam one way or another, but it's just, I don't know, there was just something about the two of them together that, like, at first, I started off the movie feeling like, I don't like these guys. I hope they die. You know what I mean? Like, fuck these guys. Look what they did. They fucking got out of the car, they got themselves in a weird situation, they moseied on down the road, they found a fucking weird ass fucking house, they decided to go straight to the house, they got lured into a fucking basement right away. These guys deserve to die. But the more they started lingering in each own story, like separately, is when I was like, okay, I'm kind of now rooting for them in different moments of the film. So I thought that was kind of an interesting dynamic that I haven't really experienced too much in films.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:53

You know what it's giving? It's giving Riley support Sam. It's giving he's in between waiting jobs, it's giving she is doing her doctorate, so she's in higher education. Not to say that her life is easy by any means, but it sounds like she has her shit together or came from wealth or just is together enough to have a strong grasp on things, and he's been losing control of his life. So while they should not be together by any means, she thinks that she's still in love with him. She probably maybe feels that way. He is probably staying out of maybe either a sense of obligation or a lack of agency or a lack of thinking that she deserves better. So I think there's a lot there. I mean, I don't really like them. I like her a little bit, kind of, but I don't like them together to the point where it also makes me not like really latch on to her. This is a movie where I didn't really care exactly what happened to them. I felt more bad for Gunny and the woman who's there missing all of her fucking limbs now. There's just a lot the man in the box. Yeah, there's a lot in here, but I found Sam and Riley, while not poorly performed, just not great characters for me to latch on to.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

Yeah. They weren't clear with like aspects of them, like his food thing in the beginning. I thought he was having some kind of like moistened hashish in the bathroom. I'm like, oh, he's an addict. Okay, we're playing into this, and then we start talking about food, and he's got it in their house. I'm like, oh, it was some sort of like snack cake that he was tempting himself with and eventually had to throw it away, or otherwise he was going to eat it. Because it didn't read as that on screen. And it just read as addiction. This is some kind of weird drug that I'm not familiar with. Okay, I don't know what he's about to do with that thing. Is he gonna eat it? This is weird looking. Okay, I get it. He's got a food thing. I think they could have leaned into that more. I think we could have brought that up as perhaps an addiction thing for him. I mean, food addiction is real, and so I think that would have played into me caring about. Him a little bit more than just, well, his levels are messed up, mine too, so he can't have all the good, tasty stuff he wants. Yeah, me too. I get it. But it's weird. Like their relationship together was also very strange because it definitely seemed in the beginning like they hated each other. The way they have them interact is really negative. But then I didn't get that sense of control from her. Instead, it seemed more like this dude just doesn't pay attention and he needs somebody at his side to remind him of things.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:27

Well, here's the thing: it's not a sense of control of I am outwardly trying to run your shit, but rather he is incapable or projects a lack of competence when it comes to the basics of caring for himself.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Yeah. Well it's And I understand that, you know, I shouldn't be having all the food that I have. Like I'm in the same kind of a boat here, and every now and then I'm like, whatever, you gotta live a little bit. Let me have some chocolate cake.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:53

Well, and that's why I mentioned like this idea of gluttony and feelings like self-indulgent, both in a physical way with food, but then also just like in a mindset. But I think with Riley, like, girl, honestly, at some point I would have been like, Alright, you wanna fucking eat that Twinkie, then eat it, bro. I don't give a fuck. If you don't give a fuck, then why should I? I don't know. So when we go into like a sex scene and then they act the way that they do afterwards, and even prior to that, I'm like super weird. It's so weird. I don't buy into it. I don't buy into why they would even be attracted to each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Like what It's not a good relationship. They can't be they can't be that uninvolved to the point where they're just like completely in their own worlds, and then she's like, Oh, I'm sorry, and whatever, and he's like, Oh, girl, I'm doing this. I don't care.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:42

You must hate me, you must be mad at me, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:45

And that's why, like, again, I think that it's gross, but when he does jack off in the shower, it's like, okay, well, you do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

But they just they just had sex. What does he need to jack off in the shower for?

SPEAKER_07 1:07:57

Exactly. That's exactly what I was gonna say. It's like I feel like y you do get laid, buddy, so I don't even know w why you would feel the need to. I mean, again, but if it's that idea of gluttony, right, and whatnot, then okay to feel like that positive, that serotonin constantly, sure. But it's still bizarre because I just don't even understand how you would even want to get in a car with her if what you just ooze is like no care in the world. But enough to go try to find her in the middle of the night, but then not enough to like really care when you've got to leave and you leave her behind in the kitchen. Like, so what what's going on here? Do you give a fuck or you do not?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

It was giving like they needed to spend more time showing that this was codependent or something, like there was something there, it just wasn't portrayed as effectively as it could have been.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:46

I think the moral of the story is don't date guys like Sam and guys like Sam like girls like Riley, just move on. And if they try to stick around and try to fix you, don't let them. Fix yourself. Don't let them. Only you can do that. But I do want to point out that Karen and Eulis had more chemistry than Sam and Riley.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

Dang. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:07

It's fucking wild. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

Dang.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:10

Which I gotta say, also they are part of one of the worst parts of this movie for me. Because for all the shit that we have talked in terms of maybe how this movie tries really hard to be something that it's not, my suspension of disbelief was totally disrupted by elderly villains so easily overpowering everybody else in this movie. The traps I get falling into that, sure. But the frequency with which these people get got by Karen and by Eulis. Come on, folks.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:46

One step ahead.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:47

Give me a little fight, give me a little bit of fight.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:50

Well, because if that fungus is making them that sharp, then maybe we need to reconsider the dynamics and like the whole idea of this fungus. Maybe we should be doing the fungus. We should probably be doing the fungus.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:01

Yeah, give me that fucking fungus, man. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:05

Absolutely, absolutely agree a hundred percent. For me, the best part of this movie was the laugh that I gave when I remembered Delilah was Lena Dunham. Because, folks, I don't know how you feel about her. I can tell you how I feel. I love the show Girls. I think we've mentioned this before, obviously, has Adam Driver, blah, blah, blah. But Lena Dunham is quite a controversial person. That's putting it lightly. I personally don't like her at all. So when I saw her in this movie the first time, I remember being a little surprised, then clearly forgot she was in it. Because when I saw it the second time around, I laughed so loud.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:47

I was like, oh, I shouldn't be laughing this loud, and I should not be laughing at all because the actual circumstance is so fucked.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:55

It's not even funny. But I really couldn't help it, guys. Maybe I'm going to hell for that.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:00

But I just I was like, oh my god, Lena Dunham in a box. It was so messed up. But I loved it. I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:09

Oh my god. At least she had her teddy beer outfit on at the end, though. That was cute.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:13

So adorable. So cutie. No.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:16

What happens to Delilah is so not okay. It's not okay at all. I'm just laughing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Fuck situation.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:23

It's kind of like, you know, when you get a cameo in a film you didn't expect, and people are like, oh, it's like the insert here jump scare. It was the Lena Dunham jump scare. That was almost just as, in my case, funny, but like for anyone else, maybe that's scarier than the scene I mentioned earlier about Karen stabbing this guy in the ass with that little needle.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

But okay, Lena Dunham and everything involved with that whole situation to me screamed somebody watched X-Files back in the day because it was like a thousand percent giving me the same kind of feeling of season four, episode two, titled Home. It was a massive, massive like social moment when this episode aired, and there was all sorts of talks of like we need to block this episode, it needs to play only at certain times. What the hell? It is an insane episode. It was so good, I think ahead of its time. So if you haven't seen that episode home, don't even watch the rest of the X-Files. If you've seen a little bit, you know what's going on, you know Mulder, you know Scully. Watch Home. It is insane, and it shares, I think, a lot of feelings with this movie and other movies of its type. But I think the best part for me of this film was probably the initial build-up. You know, we've mentioned the fact that they really build tension and everything from the very start, where you're going, what on earth is happening and where are we? Up to us getting to the house, I think was actually really good. I enjoyed that part. That whole segment there, I was like, okay, this could actually turn around and I might be into this. I know everyone warned me it was going to be weird and gross and sick and twisted, but like I could get down for what's happening so far. Everything past that obviously ended in a hack for me, but up to that point, I think was well delivered.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:55

Yeah, I think, you know, I want to say it's interesting now that we've actually talked about this movie for this amount of time, because I think I initially want to say that I think the movie has a lot going for it, but I thought it was gonna dive a lot deeper into this sortico wheat issue, right? And I think it was like off-putting, not in a good way, that this movie for me it felt like it it started to say something that was supposed to be really big, and then it just felt like it didn't commit to the bit. And so that initially was the worst part of this movie for me. But now, as we're talking through this movie, Mac, you brought up this really great point that this theme could be maybe a red herring for the film. And now I'm thinking back on it, and I'm like, oh, maybe it's actually maybe it's maybe I'm looking too far into it, and maybe it specifically chose not to linger in that story for too long, and it really just wanted you to feel like that was going to be, you know, the main driving force for what was happening, and in some ways it is, but it wasn't necessary. I don't know. I can go back and forth on it, but now I've got kind of this 50-50 thought on it. But that was my initial worst part for this movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:11

Well, I hope you don't have to really sit here and debate whether you were the one doing too much.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

Maybe I am doing too much already.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:19

I don't know. I don't think the onus is on you to be doing too much or too little because here's the thing this movie was bizarre the first time. Am I glad that I re-watched it to have a different perspective on it? Yeah, sure. But I think it stops here. This movie isn't as impactful the second time around, and I do think I got a fair bit out of the experience. But if you can go into this and have someone watch it with you for the first time, obviously you have already seen this if you are listening this far into the episode. But show this to someone with zero expectations and let them really just experience it, and then maybe you can answer some questions for them afterwards, because I just don't see this movie as being incredibly rich with rewatchability.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:02

Yeah. Maybe hop on a plane and just plop this on and not know anything about it, right? Probably the best intro into the movie. I don't think this is a movie that you want to be re-watching over and over again, honestly. But I have watched this one twice now, so you never know, but it doesn't feel like something that like I'm eagerly awaiting another watch.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:22

Yeah, because I think that the social experiment of it all could be very enticing to watch it again, but I'm another example, right? Of on a second watch, I thought I would like it more, but I ended up disliking it more. And so don't gamble, right? Like just watch the movie, and if you enjoyed it, like I think leave it at that, unless you really want to see someone's reaction to the third act of this film.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:49

Well, for me, I'm gonna say what Sam should have said multiple times. No thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:53

You know, simplicity at its finest. But for now, there you have it, folks. Honeydew from 2020, after years in the making and trying to get into the lineup, thank you, Taylor, has earned two hacks and two sloshes. Now we certainly have a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

If you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider staying for dessert. We're having delicious lemon wedges and sugar. Or you can visit patreon.com slash hacker slash. This is where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:30

If you ate this episode up and enjoyed it, leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us to continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:40

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember make room for the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:44

Then it's bright eyes and sweet smiles.