394: Bride of Frankenstein (1935)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Love and marriage, love and marriage. Go together like a horse and carriage. This I tell ya, brother, you can't have one without the other.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. It's a perfect night for mystery and horror. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, unintended.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, you're rating these movies for the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Super Fly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

And now for a smoke.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

And the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

If I can see his blackened bones, I can sleep tonight.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

This week we're kicking off Pride Month by exploring Universal's first ever horror sequel, brought to the world by its openly gay director, James Whale.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

And if you support the show, you'll also get to hear us get into some of our favorite horror sequels of all time. This is called the B side, kind of like when you used to flip that cassette tape and get a little extra out of the recording.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

90 years ago, Universal began filming a direct continuation of a story that had already become a cultural phenomenon. The studio had been eager to keep the momentum going after the success of their adaptation of Mary Shelley's novel, going so far as to alter the original film's ending to ensure the survival of its central character. James Whale initially turned down the offer to return to the director's chair though. But after the success of The Invisible Man, he struck a deal with the studio, one more personal project in exchange for one more monster movie. When production finally began, the film had a budget of just under $300,000. But it ran late, went over budget by more than $100,000, and endured multiple onset injuries, including a broken hip and a broken leg between two of its stars. Despite the challenges, the film premiered in April of 1935 and went on to become one of the most profitable horror films Universal had released at the time. And in the years since, its legacy has only grown. The film follows a scientist, goaded by a former mentor, as he's pressured to create a companion for the creature he once brought to life. This week we're talking about Bride of Frankenstein. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_04 2:30

I mean, you don't even have to really ask, right? I've seen this movie Bride of Frankenstein probably almost as many times as I've seen Frankenstein itself. I feel like the bride is among the monsters that shares some real estate on my arm, right? So obviously it's important for me. It's, you know, Elsa, it's Boris, it's Bella. They're the top dogs in my book. And yeah, man, I've seen this movie a shit ton.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

This was my first time watching The Bride of Frankenstein. I think like many folks, I'm very familiar with the existence of this character and see her portraying it in many different ways, but I never actually watched the movie until now.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Ooh, Mac. I cannot wait to hear how this goes. I've seen this movie a bunch of times, but I'll be honest, I don't know that I've ever watched it with the level of focus and appreciation that I did now. Typically, when I've seen this movie, it hasn't just been a standalone, it's been as I'm marathoning the Universal Classic Monsters. And in my mind, I feel like I made The Bride of Frankenstein to be something far larger than maybe even this movie expected to be when it was made. But Mac, I'm dying to know what were you expecting?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

I was kind of expecting them to just redo the first movie, but with a woman. I thought, all right, it's 1935. That's literally all they had to do back then was repeat something, but change one thing and it played. So I'm figuring, all right, we're gonna get the same setup, just different reasoning as to why they're picking her, and maybe they'll link up at the end. That was kind of my imagining of what they might do.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

It's a pretty fair expectation, only because we don't even know what to expect as a first-time watcher going into this one when the monster supposedly dies at the end of the first film. So you're like, okay, where do we go from here? Is this just gonna be another female version? Is this gonna be the bride? Do they link up? Do they bring Frankenstein back? I mean, he already came back from the dead once, he might as well do it again, you know?

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah, and I think it really sets you up to have that kind of thought process because when you get into this movie, it is a very different feeling. There's moments where the goofiness level is 10x what we got in the first film. It goes way goofier, way campier, but then at the same time, I feel like it doesn't spend as much time on stuff that kind of ends up just filling space in the film. And it really just jumps through and it's like, no, let's get to the action, let's get to the dialogue and skip over all that silly scientific mumbo jumbo and the back and forth that we got in the first one. I think a lot of it here is just like straight to it.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

It is like a linear continuation from the first film, right? Like it's one of those films that picks up right where the last one left off. It picks up moments where the last one left off, right? In Frankenstein, when the place is burned down, the monster supposedly dies, right? We're picking up right there. It feels like a perfect continuation. There is something different about this film. I feel like the feeling we get of the monster in this movie, I feel like it's a little bit different this time around. At least from my experience with the movie, the monster is very misunderstood, and I've rambled on about what I take away from Frankenstein 1931 and what that representation of the monster really means to me. But in Bride of Frankenstein, the monster I feel like is shown in a much more sympathetic light. There is much more emotion shown in this movie, and you can definitely feel that. Does also have some campiness to it, intentionally or not. It has a different feel to it. It's different lights on the characters, some campiness that we may not have before. And it feels very dramatic, very theatrical from the set design to the acting.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Listen, man, that set design that you're talking about shines through so much. And there's something to be said about the way that this movie begins, right? You're talking about how it picks up moments after the first film. Yes, but there's also something else, and the way that this movie frames itself is incredible to me. And I don't know that it's something I ever actually appreciated in the previous times I've seen this. This is one that from that very first shot, from the second this movie begins, you get a push in towards a castle on a dark, stormy night, and it nailed the tone of this entire movie. I think from that it built this like really steady blend of anticipation, also sadness. There's a lot of wholesome stuff in this movie, and this movie makes such a big shift from being a horror movie to a tragedy, and I think it weaves itself throughout that and then it entwines itself with some humor. Mac, you mentioned it, Sean, you mentioned it.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

This movie is campy as fuck. And when you look back at it retroactively, and you're considering the production of this film, you're considering the ways that this film has been interpreted by society in the decades since this movie turns 90 this year. It is just wild how much this movie has in every layer of it. I found myself personally like just completely engaged. This is one where I didn't look away a single time. I was emotionally there, I was visually there, I was even intellectually there from that very beginning.

SPEAKER_04 7:50

Man, yeah, it is something that really like draws you in. It is, to your point, like the tone it sets with the atmosphere, the tone it sets with the set design, the use of lighting, the shots that you get, the cinematography for its time and everything. Like it does just draw you into the film, and it does have a much different feel. Like, you get a lot of the really great, like gothic, spooky atmosphere in Frankenstein and movies like Dracula and all that, but there is something about this film that just looks so damn good.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

It looks so damn good, and what's surprising is how it feels so damn good. This movie, I mentioned it a second ago how much it weaves that humor in. I don't know that I've ever really absorbed how fucking funny this movie is, and even if it's not laugh out loud, funny in modern day, it has a lot of whimsy to it that I found really surprising, and it almost like cuts the tension of the tragedy in the movie. And I gotta say, I don't know if this is like a full disappointment, but I am also surprised how little we get of certain characters. I'll leave it there.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

If you haven't seen this movie yet and you're someone who's like exploring classics and you want to hear the spoiler-free take, we get to the spoilers and we'll unpack everything, right? But I think you go into this with one expectation, you walk out with something else.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

All right. So I don't want to spoil anything. I just want people to know that like the Batman sequels upset me for the way that they title things because they get them like delayed or backwards or something. And this movie doesn't quite fall victim to that exactly, but it does fall victim to something that plagues other sequels. You really summed it up here. I was gonna spoil it, Chris. I'm glad you went first here. But yeah, I think if you're gonna make a if you're gonna make a sequel, if you're gonna shake things up, do it from the start, shake it all up. Let's make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

For sure. Let me also just say, listen, if y'all can really fight gay marriages hard, just they look back to this decade. Like we're fucking like resurrecting dead bodies in the sake of marriage. Come on. What the fuck are we doing?

SPEAKER_04 9:58

It is something that I knew was gonna come up. It is something that I think is a valid statement, right? We're gonna get to it in the spoiler zone for sure, talking about the appearance of some characters and how much screen time do we get and all that. So we'll get to it, but yeah, I think there's not a whole lot when watching this movie for like the gazillionth time. There's nothing that really surprises me about the film itself anymore, but I will say there is something that I thought was kind of interesting to know, and that Frankenstein, as like a title or the monster, appears in over 187 films. That's a lot of Frankenstein's monsters out there, man, different versions and different things like that. So I think that's a surprise when we're just in the realm of Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

I'll also add straight up front, and we can talk about it later, but there isn't there's a visual element in this film that really accentuates the campiness and the cheesiness and the goofiness, and it happens pretty early. And when it came on screen, I did not know what was going on. I literally thought to myself, what is this? What what did they leave me to believe about this film? Sean, what were you promising? And this is what I'm getting instead. But it is a weird little special effect that is well done. The effect itself looks good. They look really, I don't even know how to describe it, okay, but without giving it away at least. But I just it caught me so off guard. And it kind of takes you out of the film and doesn't really seem necessary in the end. And I think that's what bothered me most is I'm like, this was just a way to show off a cool special effect, I feel, while seeing it.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, but you know what? It's that exact type of thing that pushes this movie towards its comedic beats and its comedic roots. And listen, if you're gonna fucking have such a sad story, you gotta laugh every once in a while. Not even that I think the action that you're referring to is funny at all, but the character behind it, like you re-watch this in Wilton manners, you're gonna have a lot of fucking takes on how this guy's a sassy queen. And I think again, right, it falls into the culture, it falls into camp.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Yeah, it definitely does. And I also think like this is an old horror film, right? It's going to rely on visuals in the movie, it's gonna rely on acting in the movie, it's gonna rely on the set design to really build some of the frightening aspects of this film. So yeah, it's got the campiness there, it's got some of this depth of emotion that maybe is feels a little bit stronger this time around, but the horror is there too. The horror is there. It may not be there in a traditional way that we're seeing now with all of these crazy scares, but it is building suspense, right? It has this spooky atmosphere, it has some chilling visuals, it focuses heavily, I feel like, on the grotesque and unsettling nature of the creature and its creation, right? It's where it leans in. And you gotta think like 1935, right? This is a very dark story for the time, right? Very dark.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

I'm curious though, after the first one, if there were fans who were coming to this just wanting more Frankenstein, and who were like other people were watching this movie with their mouths just ajar, being like, oh my goodness. And these folks are just like, yeah, give us more, like modern day horror fiends.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Oh, you know, there were some people that were like, Oh my god, what is this monstrosity?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Well, this movie endured so much when it was being marketed. There are newspapers who talk about it. There was a lot of censorship happening, there was a lot that was being pushed as like very anti-Christian or anti-religious, and there's a lot that was adapted and changed in this movie because of the pearl clutching of it all.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

Yeah. Like a whopping 15 minutes of this film was chopped off because of all kinds of stupid bullshit, politics, censorship.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Was it off the back end though?

SPEAKER_02 14:00

I don't know. It's interesting that people could have such a strong reaction to that, and now we have terrifier and people don't even bat an eye. Like nothing. This is how the times are, but I think that does impact my viewing of this for the first time negatively. I think even for me, it's not about fear or terror or horror for me necessarily. Like it's not gonna cause me to quake in my boots at all. So going back to 1935, we're not changing much of the story here. I'm gonna have the same reaction where it's not really about fear for me. It's not a very scary film by today's standards, as you mentioned. So I'm sure back then maybe different reaction, but it doesn't hit me in the same way. What's interesting though is I had a bit of the the effect you get with Scream and Scary Movie. Okay. I had a little bit of that, and specifically it's the blind man character with young Frankenstein. And I'm sitting here thinking, was this in the first Frankenstein? I don't remember it because I definitely remember Gene Hackman, but wait, what was he in? And then it took a minute to remember, of course it was in Young Frankenstein. What am I thinking? Yeah, but it is that same effect where because I've seen young Frankenstein several times before watching this, now I'm getting the two like a little mixed where you know it should be very clear this is how many years before that. It doesn't matter to me. Gene Hackman is always that character. Hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

That's so fucking hilarious and honestly accurate. Look at how influential this movie is. You know, we got young Frankenstein over like 40 years later, but when you think about the influence of this movie, I mentioned earlier that the way this movie opens is different, it's bold, and it's not new by today's standards, but it seems really innovative for 1935. The framing device alone, I think, is a flex on both the novel and the original film to say, oh wait, hold on, there's more. And I love that this movie's able to take something that was like hinted at in the original novel and really expand on it and bring new things to the table and cover new ground.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Yeah, I think that's a really great point right there, right? The film does so much with such a very small amount taken from Mary Shelley's novel. Like we have this monster longing for a mate, which was initially more of a suggestion in the book and now becomes this central and driving force in the plot, right? It's really cool to build off of that one concept. And the film introduces us to new characters that were not in the novel, right? We've got like Dr. Pretorius, for example, is one of those. I think the film, as I alluded to earlier, also brings this wider range of emotions with it. It separates itself from its predecessor a little bit. And of course, visually, the movie has this really distinctive gothic look to it that I believe is just like it's just an impactful contribution to the horror genre. Just think of how much impact this movie had across the board, like with movies to come. But I will say, man, I gotta tell you, the ending to this movie, and I know we have covered some classics over the last couple of years, and those endings have been sort of like anticlimactic, right? Some of these older movies, they kind of just fizzle out at the end. It's almost like, how do we end this? And it's just kind of like, hmm, we're just gonna end on like a semi-mid-note. But this one, I don't think is that at all. I don't think this ending is like that at all. I think this was definitely a climactic ending. I think it's a beautifully sad and tragic ending as well. I think the ending, I mean, this ending was also reshot because of what you were talking about earlier, right? There was like a censorship and politics behind it. So the ending was kind of redone last minute, and so there's some weird shit that happened from that. But overall, still, through all of that bullshit, I still feel like the ending still has this emotional impact and it has this climactic resolution for me. I don't even know if that's the right sequence of words, but it definitely feels different than watching something like the end of Dracula. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Listen, some of these movies have gone out with a whimper where this one goes out with a bang. And I think this movie really sticks the landing, but I will admit that it did leave me wanting just a little bit more. And I want to be clear, this movie does have a very clear sense of finality to it, both emotionally and narratively. Yeah, absolutely. I think it also wraps itself up with a very powerful statement and a very powerful feeling, but still I could not help but think like what else could have happened if we had just pushed the ending a little bit further, if we had just lingered in that a little bit longer. It's fitting, it's just not as full as I wanted it to be.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

That's strange that you want to linger in that moment because I feel like oof, it is is it a moment? Is it an emotional moment? Because talk about character arc. We're talking about two movies worth of a character. I think it's the saddest part, not from what happens to somebody externally, but what happens to them internally. I think that's the part that kind of breaks your heart by the time you make it all the way to the end here. It's strange because, you know, okay, it makes sense for Frankenstein as a concept to be tragic, but it's just not what I thought I was gonna get, and especially from how goofy things get and how campy they get. I thought this was gonna end on a lighthearted note, and instead the movie was like, nah, dude, feelings.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah, I want to be clear, Mac, especially because of what you just talked about, like the internal impact versus the external. The part where I wanted to linger was not after this big resolution, but rather in the moments before that decision is made. I wanted to before some more. I wanted that moment to have happened earlier in the film so we could have gone on through this whole process and then really had even like a higher level of impact with the same ending.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

I get ya.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, but I mean, listen, we'll see how this translates to our ratings. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 20:11

Well, there really isn't a whole lot of gore when you think of modern day horror with all the blood and guts everywhere, right? So you're not gonna see bodies being dismembered or any seriously graphic shots of severe bodily injury or anything like that. But think of the year, right? 1935, with all of these shots of the monster and the creation of the bride, right? Like it it was truly a sight to be seen back then, probably horrific, but nonetheless, this one is still landing in extremely low to no gore score territory.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 20:45

I think it's all good in the hood here.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Bride of Frankenstein from 1935. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_04 20:54

Well, I'll go ahead and kick this one off, right? It's a classic, and I'm the classic horror connoisseur. Doesn't mean that I have to like every classic horror movie, but it definitely means that I do like this one. This one is by far one of the greatest horror sequels I feel like ever made. From the storytelling to the acting, from the set design to the score. I think everything about this movie screams greatness. I think this film doesn't just deliver a great film visually. I think when you take a deeper look at this film, this movie really explores the very nature of humanity and monstrosity. And I feel like it makes you question what really makes someone a monster, right? Is it the appearance, is it the behavior, or is it how society treats them, right? But the actions of the humans, the cruelty suggests that monstrosity is more a matter of like action than form or physical appearance. And I think this film is just it's more than that. It also dives deep into the emotions of the monster and its isolation and the loneliness. Which makes this movie feel even more different than before. I think, Chris, you mentioned it religious notes in the film as well, adding another layer to this already complex film. And as a lifelong classic horror fan, I can talk all day about the importance of this film in pop culture and what the monster and the bride mean to horror, but it's really the layered themes that this movie explores because it tackles complex things like the ethics of creation, the God complex, the fear of the quote unquote other, and the search for identity that really makes this movie, I think, special after all these years. It just continues to be such a great and impactful film. And I think the Bride of Frankenstein from 1935 really stitches together horror and heart in this monstrous masterpiece that bolts past expectations. And this bride left the altar and walked straight into horror history because it's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Ooh, wow. You know, you get better and better at some sick-ass ratings. Listen, there's a reason this movie has such a long-standing reputation as one of the greatest sequels of all time. It didn't accidentally arrive at this place. While the original film took some liberties with the original work, like this story, the expansion of something that was only teased in the original novel, that was such a stroke of brilliance in considering how to progress the story. And it's a beautiful continuation and escalation of that monster story. And while I wish we could have gotten more from the ending for sure, it's still fitting. It's a sequel that elevates the original. And how rare is that? It adds new layers without compromising the old ones. And it stands with its own voice firmly. It's not just good for its time. This movie just fucking holds up as a great movie, period. Point blank. And I cannot wait to go to Epic Universe and see the Dark Universe to really appreciate the bride and all her glory. This one's a fucking slash.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Gosh, I don't know how much more I could add on here. I think you both have said some really true and really good stuff about the film here. And I think going into it, I was a bit worried, I'll be honest, about a sequel because it's a sequel, and we now have that fear thanks to all modern sequels, where you're like, well, there's a 50-50 chance I won't like it simply because it's added on to something that I do like. You have a lot of responsibility, I think, when you do something like that. And I don't know if it was when I saw one of the actors' faces and I thought to myself, like, okay, someone here thought this was a good idea and decided it would return and help us out. Maybe this won't be too bad. But I think you're right, Chris. And I think it really does kind of take things from the first film and keep them moving. And that's the important part here is it's not about subverting all expectations all the time. Sometimes you just need to pick up the ball and make it into the end zone. We're able to do that here. Sure, it's a little bit sillier than the first Frankenstein, although the first Frankenstein's a little bit sillier than I thought it would be as well. And that's okay. But as we made it further into the film, I became a little bit bothered. There were some there's some speech from some creatures that I didn't expect to speak that caught me off guard. But by the time we make it, I think, to the end that we mentioned earlier, you start realizing like, wow, they actually did go pretty deep with some stuff here. We didn't just take it as an opportunity to make more money because people liked a title. Like we could actually have some meaning behind what we're doing. And that was probably the best surprise of all of it was we get to question stuff. We get to make the audience question stuff as well. And they did a good job with that. Sure, there's some areas here that I wish they would have given us a little bit more time and some stuff, and some stuff I wish we wouldn't have even had on screen, but that's okay. I think overall, like you've said, this is an amazing film here and deserves its slash.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Well, surprise, surprise, Bride of Frankenstein from 1935 has earned a universal slash. Now you can find this movie in so many different places, but if you haven't seen it yet, please go check it out. In just a moment, we're gonna hop over to the spoiler zone. We're gonna unpack the shock of this ending and try to explore all its varied layers of death seeing a bit.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

This episode of Hacker Slash is proudly brought to you by Monster Matchmaker. Because even stitched together creatures need someone to spark a connection. Are you a misunderstood monstrosity searching for love at first fright? Tired of angry villagers with torches chasing away your Tinder dates? The answer is here, folks, with Monster Matchmaker, the premier dating service for the lonely, the grotesque, and the genetically reassembled. So whether you're a reanimated corpse with a heart of gold or lightning-powered lady with hair as iconic as your trauma, our patented shock and awe algorithm ensures that you're paired with the perfect partner. No angry mobs required. Sign up today using promo code IT'SALIVE to get your first month free, and we'll throw in a complimentary pitchfork-proof dating profile photo. Monster Matchmaker, because somewhere out there, there's someone who loves you for your parts. You know, for a movie from the 1930s, this movie does pretty well in terms of the death toll. We have a solid nine kills in this movie, and even with the kills, we have these heavy emotions, good or bad. And I gotta know which one of these kills made your hair raise like the bride herself.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

There's two kills that equally made me chuckle. I don't know that they raised my hair, but poor Hans and his wife, the very beginning of the film, that was pure comedic gold and just cracked me up.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

You know what? I can see the comedy in Hans, who goes in and he's seeking revenge, but I also see the tragedy in that. He's just like, no, I have to see the monster dead for me to have any kind of closure, right? And he goes in and meets his demise. But his wife is like, I think one of the more horrific deaths because she's actually like pulling him out of the thing, thinking it's maybe her husband that went in there, and her realizing it's the monster, the monster that killed her daughter in the previous film, the monster that most likely now killed her husband, and he just like comes out and tosses her over and she goes headfirst right into the rock.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah, okay. Listen, the way she just got flung like a ragdoll, fuck man. Hans and his wife are just a tragic gut punch. And yes, like a little bit of comedy, but mostly just fucking gut punch because he's searching for that closure, as you mentioned. She is begging him because she knows that even if he didn't fuck around and find out with a monster, the depths that he's going to is gonna still drive them far apart emotionally, too. This movie is fucking violent, it's symbolic, and this death in particular shows that there's no peace here, there's no vengeance, there's no justice, and it's specific to the fact that this monster's rage hasn't fucking burned out with the windmill. And I love that we get this reveal, right? The monster's fucking done being passive. He was a passenger and was borderline gentle that entire first movie and was really just a victim to everything. But in a movie that's short on gore, holy shit, it is fucking rich in consequence. I think Hans and his wife are evidence of that. And each of the remainder of the kills feels like a fucking narrative beat instead of just a scare tactic. So really enjoyed those.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Yeah, for sure. I'm surprised. I mean, we haven't talked about the monster himself yet and the impact that that kill in and of itself has, right? The monster like tearing down the lab and causing the whole thing to blow up. It's just super impactful because he goes down with the ship, right? But he makes sure that he takes some other people down with him, right? He takes the bride down with him, he takes Dr. Pretorius down with him. It's that final quote, we belong dead. That is such an impactful line in that moment. Yeah, and those kills were crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

It's so good, but also this movie should have been called The Divorce of Frankenstein, the annulment of Frankenstein, the if I can't have her, no one can Frankenstein, the sir, she's not in you're not entitled to her friendship or her love and sign. Come on.

SPEAKER_04 31:00

You know, who's to say the bride of Frankenstein was even about Elsa?

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Honestly, he was probably her big gay beard, and she was probably loving the ladies.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

You never know.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Maybe she wanted her own bride, Frankenstein. Did you ever fucking think of that?

SPEAKER_04 31:19

Nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

I also just want to outline here how intense is it that this guy just racks up a fucking body count like nobody's business. He's tearing through these bodies, and there's even a point where he's about to get sworn by the mob after he escapes, and he just drops a boulder on someone's fucking head. Like, yes, and listen, I know the gore score is fucking low, but in retrospect, can we talk about how bright of Frankenstein-coded Halloween kills is? Because I'm seeing Michael Meyer show down with a crowd. I'm seeing a lot of evil dies tonight. I'm even seeing Hans's wife pull him out of the rubble, just like that firefighter reached down for Michael and he grabbed his fucking hands, and then all of a sudden that bitch is dead. There's some shit. All I'm saying, there's some shit in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

It's those angry mobs. Man, you also have Carl getting tossed from the tower. Carl was Dwight Fry, who was Fritz in the first one, and this dude found a way to die in both films by the hand of the monster. Evil dies again tonight. Tragic for Carl.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

I do love that it shows the strength of Frankenstein in this movie where he is just literally, you know, yeeting people off without any like he doesn't have to use any of his muscles, honestly. He's not flexing one bit. He just goes, like, you're off of this, you're smooshed with a boulder, you're honestly you just tripped and fell, and so that's your own fault. But like everyone else, he's like, I don't even I don't even have to try, I'm just gonna flip the switch, it's all game oversight.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah, he's like, Oh, you peasants, what this is crazy. But man, Sean, you're talking about the deaths of the monster and the bride and Art Depertorious. I just really want to fucking go on on a limb here and hope that we all agree that the set design of this movie is spectacular. Because holy shit, specifically the moment when they raise the bride's body up into the storm. What a feat of engineering this look like. Like, even in a fictional world, it just looks so good. They bring her fucking down, they unrub the bandages, he opens her eyes. Ah, the staging in here, the costume work, the set design. This movie looks like you want to fucking just reach in and touch it and live in it.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Yeah, for sure. And I absolutely love that this movie was filmed a hundred percent entirely on set, right? Like, there's no location shooting. They built everything that you love in this movie. They fucking built it for you. You know what I mean? Like that was all just imagination and creation to make this movie come to life, which is like another reason to really appreciate some of these older movies because now, like, yeah, we're creating some stuff, we have some green screens, we got some really cool fancy shit technology, and then we might actually like fly to like some different part of the world to get this aesthetic, right? Like, we're not doing that here in these movies. There's no we don't have that kind of money to be flying around the world doing that kind of shit back then, right? Like, we're gonna build this out of like fucking drywall and two by fours and shit like that. You know what I mean? So you gotta appreciate that the movie was shot a hundred percent entirely on set to create some of the set design that you're talking about there. Uh absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

I'm surprised no one has talked about Lady Frankenstein herself here because the bride is like a masterpiece of understatement when it comes to costume work because they could have gone so off the deep end and they could have gone for a gnarlier Frankenstein with more hair. Yeah, but they didn't have to. But it also works for the character's like origin and everything. So it all adds up. I'm looking at a photograph that's like a colorized version of her just kind of staring off into the distance with a very intense look. And I'm like, okay, you take the stripe out of her hair and maybe hide the stitches, you wouldn't be able to tell. It would just look like another movie from the early 20th century. All we need is a little bit of scars, a little bit of hair change because it's a traumatic thing to come to life. Yeah. And that's it. Like, go simple and don't overdo it. And it's so effective here. I I love the look of the bride. I mean, Frankenstein himself, like he's fine, you know. We get what we need for Frankenstein. Good job. Keep it going. Don't change a thing. But you're gonna introduce something that's a little bit different here. And the rest of the movie feels very under shaded. You have these like lab gowns. We're not doing anything crazy with a lab gown. It's plain, it's boring, it doesn't matter, it works. Frankenstein, like I'm, you know, I mentioned he's fine, but he's just wearing like all black. He's very Manhattan and here for it. Cool. And so when we get to her, she's got this light colored dress that stands out from everything else, which is like gray and black. And it's dark and it's lovely, and it's a great little touch because it's not boring, and she is different. You know, three hours later, when we finally get to see her, she is different from everything else so far. Maybe the lab coats, maybe the lab gowns, maybe those are the closest thing we get with how flowy they can be. But no, she is just I don't even know what word would you use to describe her appearance on screen? Electric.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

I would describe it in three words Bread for Jesus. Can I break the severity and the gravity of her appearance in this moment?

SPEAKER_04 36:43

Yeah, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Have you ever considered her hair? And not just how fucking cool it looks, because obviously she's a gorgeous, gorgeous girl. But remember that she had bandages on. They're gonna take the bandages off. I guarantee you that didn't Marge Simpson that shit, and it just shot straight up. These men dressed her and then teased out her hair. They had to put effort in. She didn't do it herself.

SPEAKER_04 37:08

We needed to see that that real slow-mo unraveling. Yeah, did they tease that out, or did that hair just pop out of that bandage as soon as they unraveled?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Guarantee you, you don't get that kind of volume in 1930 fucking five without teasing it out. Like maybe the static was there, I'm sure, but for sure they fucking sliced it back a bit.

SPEAKER_04 37:28

Yeah. I mean, the hair is an interesting topic for the bride, too, and much inspired from Nefertiti, right? From Egypt, the queen princess from Egypt. Oh, yeah. That headdress that Nefertiti used to wear, right? Where you have in those pictures or whatever. So that was an inspiration, and they had to like use like a wire cage to hold that hair up or to put that headpiece on her for that visual, which is really cool. But, you know, it is a sleeper. If you look closely, though, it yes, as iconic as the look for the bride is in the movie, they did have some different touches for the look of Frankenstein's monster because you could actually see in the beginning some of his hair is singed off from the fire. They did make some extra bodily injuries from the fire and the rubble and stuff. So they were intentional about changing that a little bit. And there is some crazy lore that's floating around out there that the monster can regenerate because as the film progresses, it looks like some of those wounds start to heal and his hair starts to grow back a little bit. So that could either be a fuck up in the makeup or that could be like an added piece of the lore that they don't really explore.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

It's giving intentional, it's giving they made the decision to let the wounds heal over time.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Yeah. So there is a lot of great work and intentional work that went into the look of both of these characters, but I also want to highlight the score or the musical soundtrack for this movie because that was absolutely a banger as well. Like it just works so well with the movie, so popular that it was used in other movies like Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers, and it I think it also was nominated for an Academy Award back then for best sound recording at the only, I think, Universal Monster movie that got nominated for any kind of uh Academy Award, which is cool. Didn't win, would have liked to see a win there, but it definitely was nominated.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Yeah, that score really fucking slapped again when we see the bride in all her glory, and then all of a sudden you hear church bells ringing.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Once again, a little bride for Jesus. And really the reveal of the bride was one of my favorite scenes. I have more to say about it later, but I really want to dig in here to a very different vibe, and that was the hermit and the monster. Because it's bizarre, it's campy, it's genuinely moving. That hermit sure as hell fucking you hauled with the monster. He said, I know I met you five seconds ago, but God has answered my prayers. I'm so glad we're gonna be forever together. Here, have my soup and have my bread, have my broth.

SPEAKER_04 40:10

That made me that poor dude was lonely, man.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

He wanted a friend, and it really was sweet. I really do love it, but also this odd connection that they have is super sincere, and I really love that. I love that we get him teaching them words like friend and good. I love that they share a meal and they even fucking smoke a doobie together. It's the closest as this monster comes to peace, and I think that's really, really special. I think it's like actually one of the most human moments of the entire movie.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Except the entire time, all I could think of was see no evil, hear no evil. Just again, 50 years before they made it. That's all I could think of was a future film. Hilarious. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

I feel like it did bring this emotion. That's like this is one of the more impactful scenes that brings that emotional depth for sure, because it is like this. There is some campiness to it, there is a little bit of silliness to it, but there is this like sadness to it. Like you, you know, it's on both parts, like that old hermit, like I said, kind of lonely, wanting a friend, right? The monster is also like at this point, like just not sure of anything, right? Like, really skittish, really scared, doesn't know who to trust, right? And eventually builds this relationship, yes, really fast, but they build this relationship of trust, right? He's teaching the monster, right? The monster is kind of like learning different things to enjoy. They kind of dabble with like the test of fire, because obviously fire is a big trigger for the monster, right? He's had a lot of fire trauma not that long ago, and so that is it's just a it's just a really rare moment of compassion and humanity, which proves that there is this potential for the monster to have kindness. So it's very interesting what they choose to portray in the film, right? Because as you said, Chris, like the monster is pretty violent in this one, right? Like he is attacking people, like there is that element to him, but there is also this element to him and this like innocence to him of just like learning things for the first time and building trust and having that emotional depth. So it is a it's one of the most, I think, impactful scenes in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

You got to freaking puff puff pass with the dude, you know? Yeah. He's gonna form a bond.

SPEAKER_04 42:23

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

I think my favorite scene though goes to someone with whom he did not form a bond, and that is his supposed bride. Because when she turns around and looks at this dude and just screams, I knew this movie was for real. I knew they didn't just want to make a dollar, they wanted to make something good, was not expecting that at all. I thought it was gonna play out to be really boring, and she was just gonna like walk over to him, and they would go like you know, married, and then the movie's done. But instead, we don't get that happy ever after. She just screams at him and is like, nah, dude, this is not gonna happen the way that y'all think this is gonna happen. Loved it so much. Her introduction and subsequent, of course, destruction. But yeah, I think that was just you know, again, you don't have to subvert expectations all the time, but this was a good time to do it right here.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Oh my gosh. Okay, I just I'm thinking back on this because I think it's just such a great example of how incredible the characters are. But the fact that every fiber of this movie leading up to that point helped the monster find his voice. He's more articulate, he's more emotional, which makes him more tragic. He's trying to understand the world, Sean. You mentioned that because he's also trying to make sense of the pain that he feels and he has this desire for connection and then the subsequent pain of rejection that makes him very deeply human and flawed, even as he's cast as the villain. He's brutal, but then there's empathy behind his actions, and there's also a greater deal of sympathy and a lot. You're like, fuck man, maybe I'll throw a boulder on this asshole too. But by the end of the movie, especially in these moments that you're describing back in this scene, holy shit, it's like he feels more human than most of the fucking people around him.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

Yeah. He has to face rejection like right away, too. Like, think of you gotta think, man, this is crazy. It is on one hand, it's creating this monster to be this monster's bride, thinking like this is okay, like we're just gonna force you into this marriage, right? And that in and of itself speaks to you know, whatever. But I also think like the fact that they couldn't control them actually having any kind of physical attraction to each other, right? Was so interesting. And for that to go downhill so fast is such a crazy thing. And you're right, like no one was really expecting that.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Yeah, which is again one of the many reasons why this film is so rich with LGBT subtext, and why this is such a popular pick to go back to and find all the allegories, even if it wasn't the director's immediate intention. Frankenstein learning and then fucking yearning, but then ultimately being betrayed, not even just by the villains, but by hope. He's betrayed by hope, and that is what makes this fucking pain so raw. She hates me like others. Like you fucking feel it. That final line that you mentioned, we belong dead. That shit is as much a self-indictment as it is a mercy kill.

SPEAKER_04 45:27

For sure, for sure. There's also some really great scenes that maybe aren't as like broad and impactful with all this emotional depth, too. But I also think there's some really great scenes. There's the scene, I think, towards the beginning of the film, we have Elizabeth, and she has this quote where she's like, I was told to beware my wedding night. It's such a great scene because it's a direct reference to the novel where the monster warns Frankenstein to beware his wedding night. So that's a great callback to the novel. Really subtle short scene, but really cool. And I want to highlight another scene because I think you'll have to go back and like really look at the scene in a different way. So there's also a scene towards the first half of the film where they're carrying Henry Frankenstein into, I don't know if it's his room or whatever, but they're carrying him in the room, like he's lying on that bed or that stretcher, right? And they're taking him out of the whole thing that just happened in the beginning of the film. And one it's a great part of the film with the lady trying to warn them that the monster is alive, right? That whole scene, that progression is such a good scene. And she just brings an energy to the role. Like almost, man, I was like almost, she was kind of scaring me, like the way she was bringing that emotion. I'm like, Are you okay? Because you're kind of scaring me, man, right? I don't know. But it was a great buildup. But then as they're carrying Henry Frankenstein's body into that room, there's this moment where they're bringing him in, and you can see this huge shadow of what looks to be this monster looming over him on the wall, which looks really fucking cool. Again, I don't know if that was an intentional thing that the film did, but if you go back and watch that scene and you look up at the wall, it looks like a huge shadowy silhouette of a monster with like bolts sticking out of the neck and everything, and just looking down over the body, which is such a it's a really cool visual.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Fuck, that's so good. Now I'm dying to go back and rewatch it.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

Yeah, it's super, super cool. There's some fun stuff in here too. Like if you remember the scene where the miniatures in the glass jars or whatever. One, what the fuck? What a freaky, weird, like I don't know, really strange. The one question I need answered how the fuck did this little miniature king dude eat a fucking turkey leg or whatever the fuck in that jar? Where did the tiny turkey leg come from?

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Oh, clearly he manufactured that. GMOs are a bitch, bro.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Yeah, this is some weird shit. Where did it come from? We don't know. The whole scene was ridiculous, but there is a fun fact in there that tiny little mermaid in this scene was actually Josephine McKim, who was an Olympic gold medalist in the 1928 Olympics for the 400-meter freestyle relay. So that's pretty cool too.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Wow. In a movie where people drown, we have an Olympic gold medal.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Yeah. But I mean, aside from that, just thinking of 1935 and what would have had to go into making a scene like that, because you have to shout out the whole creation of that scene because they actually had to place these actors in full-sized bell jars and did two full days of shooting just for that scene. And that's just gotta be like the dedication to the craft and making that come to life to it to look like little miniatures is great. We love a good, you know, trick of the visuals.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

It's a really fucking neat trick.

SPEAKER_02 48:52

I was surprised to see it. This is what I was complaining about earlier. Like, it's such a cool special effect, but why?

SPEAKER_04 48:58

But why? Okay, this is the one you were talking about.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Yeah, yes, this is the one right here. Like when I saw this, I literally thought this movie has jumped the shark already.

SPEAKER_04 49:07

It is one of the sillier tones, right? Like this miniature collection of people, it just seems a little out of place and a little silly to bring in this other like doctor dude who's like, I have created my own life, but they're little miniatures and I've grown them. Like, what the fuck? I can make them small, but you can make them big. Yes, with our powers combined.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Okay, what's that a metaphor for?

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Oh my. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. I do appreciate though that like Dr. Praetorius is trying some stuff that seems out of place for the 1930s, like the idea of hooking some tissue up to like electrodes and pumping it full of lightning, whatever. Like that to me seems more like something these people might think is plausible. But for him to be like, no, I had to like grow these dudes, or I had to make a brain cell by cell. We grew it. We got a little bit of uh, you know, stem cell stuff going on here, like way before we really started to do it mainstream, uh like a forward thinker. I'm here for Dr. Praetoris. I don't like the little miniature dude ads, but the idea behind it, uh okay, I see where you're going.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Yeah, honestly, this guy is fucking unhinged, and I kind of love it. I really do. Like he's theatrical, he's smug, he enjoys pushing boundaries for his own amusement. Like he's just giggling and having fun. And I think the actor who plays him, right, like he plays him with such dry, campy flamboyance that it feels like he wandered in from a totally different fucking movie, but made it that much better. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, I went to the wrong dwarf or the wrong party, but fuck it while we're here.

SPEAKER_04 50:45

Fuck it. It's so true. Ernest Thessager, I believe, he literally beat out Bell Legosi and Claude Rains for this role. So that is great. Like, obviously, he he's bringing something to this character that we needed to see. And yeah, this guy is a great actor. He's done some really great classics that I would highly recommend. The old Dark House from 1932 is a great classic to add to the list. The ghoul from 1933, both of these movies featuring Boris Karloff as well. But Ernest Thesseger, he's a classic horror heavyweight. He is a classic horror heavyweight.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Also a fellow gay friend of the director James Will.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

It was a very intentional casting, and he chose to rely on his friend to embody this more fucking decadent, corrupted version of science, which ah, I love it. It was just such a brilliant fucking casting move, and I think it made the movie that much better. Like, if there was any kind of chump playing this role, he would have really dragged the whole thing down.

SPEAKER_04 51:42

Very true. It is interesting the intentional casting choices that they have because obviously they bring over some repeat characters, right? We see Colin Clive reprising his role as Henry Frankenstein. And Colin Clive, from what I understand, was a pretty bad alcoholic, and so they wanted to keep him in the role, supposedly, because they liked the hysterical quality of his demeanor when acting as Henry Frankenstein in the film. So they were kind of like, hey man, this guy might be a raging alcoholic, but that quality might be adding to the character.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Well, now I'm wondering, was his broken leg because of his raging alcoholism?

SPEAKER_04 52:21

Listen, you never know.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Okay, but I can appreciate legitimately that his character is I mean, in this movie, right? He's a man caught in the aftermath of his own god complex. Let's like take that in for a second.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

But what's great about this is that while he wants out, the whole fucking world, and Pretorius specifically, will not let him go. And there's something tragic about that. And it's also tragic that he quickly slips back into his old role once the work begins again, because it's giving the one last job trope decades before it became the fucking standard. Like this is his last heist job, and then he's gonna take the money and run off with his family and protect his little girl. But nope.

SPEAKER_04 53:07

What's interesting about Henry Frankenstein in this movie or in any of these movies is that you know, if you really pay attention, he's never referred to as a doctor in either of these films. Like he dropped out of medical school, so to speak, because he didn't think there was anything more to learn or that they could teach, right? So he's not really a licensed doctor that we really get here.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Sean, aspiring Dr. Frankenstein does not fucking ring.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

He doesn't need any certification to be a real doctor.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Promises I'm a doctor, Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

The only real doctor. The only real doctor in the Frankenstein series, I think, is is Wolf Frankenstein and son of Frankenstein in 1939. He's the only legitimate doctor.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

That's fucking hilarious. I love now my headcanon is that Frankenstein MD has a little web in front of the MD on his fucking name tag.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

Yeah, man. Oh, but a weird fact and kind of sad is Colin Clive, I think he died from tuberculosis like a couple years after this movie was made, which is super tragic. But what's even worse than that is his cremated remains were actually left unclaimed in the basement of a Los Angeles funeral parlor until 1978 when someone finally scattered his ashes at sea.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

At sea? Not even in Hollywood?

SPEAKER_04 54:31

Not maybe that was what he wanted. Maybe it's a distant bloodline family member that was like, this is what he would have wanted if never met him. But bless him.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

I've spread too many ashes at sea. Can't catch me doing that again. But bro, if I ever fucking starred in an iconic horror franchise like Frankenstein, like this man is in a fucking killer lab, two movies in a row. You better believe I want my ashes all over that fucking set. Reanimate my ass.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Yeah. Man. Mac, you mentioned earlier something about the monster talking, and I'm very curious because I really do want to get into that and hear from both of you on your thoughts. Because for me, the monster talking, it's debatable. Like, do I really want that or do I not?

SPEAKER_02 55:19

I didn't want it. He started speaking. We're having this silly interaction with a blind dude. It was really weird, and I was so caught off guard. But as we went on further and he started expressing emotion, I think that's where I was like, okay, I'm okay with him speaking. They do that kind of stumbly speech where he's trying his best, but you know, he's only been alive a little bit. All right, you got to give him a minute, and it's okay. It seems kind of iconic. It seems what you would expect coming from Frankenstein's monster. But that's why the end works so well when he says his lines, is because you know that like he's got a he's got a fresh lease on life, okay? He hasn't been speaking for very long, but he's got enough willpower to spit out those words. So by the end of it, I was like, all right, I'm here for it. But at the start of it, it was so silly and it like just didn't add up. It kind of is like we have zombies that start speaking in TV and movies and they didn't for however long, right? Oh, they're changing. You're like, nah, come on, dude. That's just dumb. That's how it felt. Yeah. At first.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Yeah, it's a tough one. And I kind of get the pros and cons on both sides of it, and it really just does, I think, come down to like a personal preference. Like, does it bother you? Does it not? Do you feel like it adds to the character? Does it take away from the character? But it's always interesting to hear everyone's perception on that because it is obviously no didn't get any real talking in the first one, and then we get the monster talking in this one.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Yeah, I mean, I really enjoyed it. I mentioned it a little bit ago when I was starting to talk about his archer, right? I think his ability to articulate his pain makes it feel even more tragic and continues to prove just how human he is, despite the fact he asked not for this life. He didn't choose to fucking be brought up in this circumstance and the whole world was turning on him. The more human everyone else is, the more human we feel he is because of his reaction and the articulation of his pain. And I think that is just alone so powerful. I really, really love that angle.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

Yeah. That and you know, one like physical negative aspect of the choice to make the monster speak was, and you may or may not have noticed it, but the face of the monster in Boris Karloff looks a little bit fuller in this movie. He might have asked, like, did the monster have some donuts in between the first film and this film? We're not sure. But he actually took, he has like a dental plate that he had that he took out when he played the monster in the first film, which caused kind of like that sunken cheek look. And then in order to speak, obviously, he had to have the dental plate in. So he had to have the dental plate in this time, which made him look a little bit more like normal in the face, more filled out. And so it did impact the look of the monster a little bit. And I don't think it's like the most like egregious thing, but it does, you know, it does impact in some ways.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Listen, man, if his vibe is changing enough for his wounds to heal, he now knows what bread is. He literally eating entire loaves of bread. Who are we to say exactly how much time has passed in this movie? Good for him.

SPEAKER_04 58:39

For him.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

If I was tearing out the countryside trying to find a friend and I stumbled into a little shack and we had Panera bread bowls, you're working up an appetite here. Bro, absolutely. Like this guy does. He deserves his bread bowl. And I think we should not be concerned about that.

SPEAKER_04 58:58

Not really, no. And even with all of that, face being full, eating the bread bowls, all that stuff, right? Boris Karloff still found a way to lose 20 fucking pounds while filming this movie from sweating all day in that makeup and that outfit. So can you imagine? And I think the filming was just over a month. Like it took like 46 or some odd days to film this movie. So to lose 20 pounds in 46 days is pretty fucking wild. And that's just a lot, man, to deal with. And you know, we've talked about it in the first one, like his makeup taking a while. I think his makeup in this one took somewhere around five hours. The brides, I think, took somewhere around three hours. So this is a lot of time invested in the looks, but man, can you imagine sweating so much that you're losing 20 pounds in just over a month?

SPEAKER_00 59:47

You've heard of the Atkins diet, you've heard of the South Beach diet, but you haven't heard of the Karloff diet. Frankenstein, which is just be Frankenstein for 40 days.

SPEAKER_04 59:56

Yeah. Literally just put on the whole getup and just walk around that for a month. You're good. You're gonna look great.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

You're gonna like the way you look. We guarantee it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

We guarantee it. There is like the, you know, we're talking about like the religious tones in this movie. There is like almost this, I don't know, dare I say, like Jesus-like figure that they kind of portray in the monster this time around. Like you definitely see like this moment where they're almost like crucifying him, it feels like, you know what I mean? I mean, I don't know how much of that was super intentional, but man, it did cause a lot more sympathy than originally shown for the big guy, you know, for a lot of the audience, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

It was, and then I also wanted to then draw the comparison to the hermit. This is a hermit who prays, who clearly has his ideological beliefs, and the monster, while initially scared of him, is completely welcomed and loved by him. And I love actually that this component of the movie, while yes, okay, we transition from different perspectives, right? And a few moments ago, it looked like they were about to crucify the monster, and in the next, he is someone who opposes very Christian like imagery. But within that, this representation is no, there's unconditional love and a sense of belonging and welcoming. It matters not to me what you look like or who you are, it matters to me that you are a friend.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:20

But man, five minutes. Okay, we gotta talk about it. Or five minutes, give or take. We gotta talk about it, right? Because it's the Bride of Frankenstein, that's the title, right? And you're expecting probably a movie that's really heavily featuring Bride of Frankenstein, but how'd y'all feel five minutes of screen time?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Major missed opportunity here, and it upsets me a little bit because she seems so interesting, yet we get so little of her. I even like the idea of having her brains grown and not just like stolen from a corpse. That part's really interesting. It reminds me of those uh they have computers right now that they're using human brain tissue as part of, and that is like so weird and sick and grotesque, but interesting. Apparently, our brain cells work very well for that. Um who to funk it. So, yeah, like I like the origin story for her. Like Dr. Pretoris as a character is very unique, but the idea of like, no, no, no, I'm starting fresh with the good stuff. I'm like, okay, it made me think like, would there have been without the Bride of Frankenstein culturally? Would it have been as interesting to us the idea of like engineering humans? Yeah, that's so true. Some sort of way, right? Like, would it have never entered the Zeitgeist? I don't know. Maybe I'm giving it too much credit, but it's just like she her origin story is very similar to the monster, but just different enough because it seems like, okay, now we're getting in more of the idea of like science can get us there, not just this like magical, mystical maha scientist lighting this dude up with lightning.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

Okay, let me tell you what's frustrating about this. One, I'm so excited we're getting the bride, and I think the scheduled release date is now in 2026 because I want another fucking go with this story. I understand that already Bride of Frankenstein it it's already making her an accessory to Frankenstein, but I was really hoping to have more of her in a shining light. I mean, we get five fucking minutes of her, and that's outrageous. She's in the title, she's the visual centerpiece, she's a main hero image on the fucking poster, and the fact that her time on this earth was spent reacting to a man is just ah we don't know what she thinks, we don't know what she feels, we don't know what she wants. She's an icon, but she's not a character, she's a symbol of rejection and nothing more.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

Yeah, which I think is always so interesting how people really idolize the characters themselves, like the bride and the monster as some kind of like symbolism for love or something like that. When in actuality, there really was no love there, right? Like this, that it's a very tragic tale. And I think well, I think it's interesting, Chris, because you kind of just said it, right? Like in this movie, the bride is an accessory to the monster, right? Because they really developed the monster as a character so much more in this movie. They really heavily featured the monster so much in this movie, and then we get such so little time on screen with the bride that we were all waiting for. But maybe no one expected the impact that this bride brought to the film because it's amazing, right? One, we've talked about the look of the bride, we've talked about the impact of that first initial look, but man, she did so much to that role with such a little bit of time, right? Like the sounds that she made, the hissing, the spitting, right? Even those little things, I think, inspired by like some fucking swans from London, right? Like she literally ran into some fucking angry fucking swans at some park in London, Regents Park or something like that, if I remember correctly, and just channeled Angry Swans for her character as the bride and made this huge impact that has impacted pop culture for five minutes of runtime. We're talking about a character, right, that really isn't in another movie. Like she's in a the remake 1994 Frankenstein. We have Hotel Transylvania things like that, but not like a real like feature film. She didn't get to come back as the bride, right? So it's gonna be really interesting to see what this new bride movie brings us with this new reimagining of the tale, but so impactful with such a little amount of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

Yeah, it's just okay. Let me tell you what that sounds like when people talk about like, oh, these are the pairing. It's like when people are obsessed with fucking Harley Quinn and the Joker. Bro, do you even know what their relationship is? Like, I'm sorry. I actually love, I've had my eye on a set of throw pillows that are Frankenstein and the Brider Frankenstein for my couch. But it's like, why do I want that in my house? I'm familiar enough with rejection. No thanks. I don't need this. But the other side of this, right? This is one of the I think Universal's biggest missed opportunities. It is really hard for me to not imagine the version of this movie where she gets to live just a little bit longer or where she's given the same emotional depth as the monster. Instead, this is another instance of a woman being brought into or taken out by a man who couldn't have her. I mean, it's fitting, I guess. That's just the fucking reality of it. I just wish we had more from such a compelling character.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

I feel you. It would be one interesting if we did get that, but two, it'll be interesting to see if we do get that in this new bride that's coming out. But yeah, it's just really tough. But I think also kind of genius, like the marketing of the film. They're advertising this movie, the bride of Frankenstein, but they're not telling you who the bride is. They're not showing you a picture of the bride. They don't show anything, right? Like you don't know who the bride is. And first, not seeing her credited for the role in the intro title credits. Okay, I kind of see where you're going with that, right? Like, we don't need, I mean, I guess you couldn't really look things up back in the day and be like, oh, I'm gonna Google this name and see what this person looks like. But you might know the actor if you put the actor's name up there and you see, you know, Elsa's name up there, and you're like, okay, yeah, that's the actor. Okay, I can kind of get a visual of like what this monster is gonna look like, but maybe I don't know if that was intentional or not, but then you get to the end of the film and we get the credits again, and that's cool. But again, she's just got a question mark, not credited for the role, only credited for the secondary role she played in the beginning of the film, right? Which I that part is fucked up, man. Like, at least give her the credit for the role.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

This is a man's world.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:55

It's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

It's interesting that you bring up DC, Chris, because who was introduced in Batman Forever? Robin. Oh, yes. Who was introduced in Batman and Robin then? Oh, Batgirl. Y'all don't know how to name a movie, apparently, because you got these things backwards, and this is kind of what that felt like almost where it was like, I thought this was called the Bride of Frankenstein, not Frankenstein 2.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Yeah. Okay, because I feel like we're getting Frankenstein 2.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:26

Hey, they did do it previously on Frankenstein. I was one I was actually gonna ask you what you felt about that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

Oh, I actually enjoyed it. Like it was silly, it was very much like okay, if you didn't hear all the wild shit about this movie and you hadn't seen it, but you're here for because of all the press. Here it is. This is what you missed.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

Here's the highlights.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

Yeah, let's put weird fucking thruple energy with Mary Shelley, her husband, and their friend Byron. And let's just recap the entirety of the first movie and then allow her to fucking expand her story. I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

Last time on Dragon Ball Z.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

It's exactly what I thought about watching this one again. I was like, oh man, the highlight reel, the previously on Frankenstein, and then diving right into the story.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I'll never not think about Glee with that. And that's what you missed. On Glee.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:14

But, you know, thinking about the previously on Frankenstein, I did think it was cool to see the actress that plays the little girl that dies in the original Frankenstein. She makes her appearance in this one. She pops up in the scene where she's helping lead like a bunch of school kids away from the monster. And so, you know, at least she didn't suffer the same fate as Dwight Fry, who got killed both times, right? At least she got to live the second time. Redemption.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:40

You know, they had a chance to do something really fucking hilarious after the outrage from the previous movie. Let's bring her back. Fuck it, let's kill her again.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:48

But, you know, all that to say, I do have to say probably the worst part of this movie for me, and I'll go back to it. Chris, you loved it, but I think the monster talking in this one, I see good and bad. And so if I have to pick something out of this brilliant sequel, it's probably just gonna be maybe that one aspect. I just never really truly liked it. It's never really grown on me that much. Like, obviously, it doesn't ruin the movie by any means. So I don't want to harp on this subject and be like, this is the worst thing, and it just ruined the whole character for me, because it really doesn't. But if I'm thinking back on it and reflecting on the movie, it's not my favorite part of the movie. I just feel like the monster loses a little bit of the impact, making him less mysterious, less scary. And I get that it adds that emotional depth to the character, it adds the humanity, there's more sympathy and all that crap. But if it was me, I would probably leave that shit alone. I think even Boris Karloff himself stated that he wanted the monster to remain silent. He fought against the idea, obviously losing that argument. But yeah, I don't know. I'd love to see a version where there isn't that just to see if it still comes off the same. But for now, I think that's probably the one thing I'd take away. Maybe the censorship, I don't know. Maybe the censorship could have ruined parts of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

Okay, two things. One, that's so easy to fucking do, Sean. Let's just go back at the track from the film and just insert grunts whenever he opens his fucking mouth. Yeah, that's so fucking easy. Actually, let's just do a cut of this movie where it's just you grunting over everything.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:16

That's one. I'm gonna dub the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

Exactly. Two, honestly, I get it. I get why you're upset about it. It's like for me when Rob Zombie made Michael Myers talk. But the difference is that Michael Myers was violent, menacing, and great because of his fucking silence. Whereas Frankenstein was like just like groaning and shit. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like the fact that I feel sympathy and heart and emotions for Frankenstein's monster makes me think, like, okay, yeah, I want to know what's going on in his head, that little cutie. But Michael Myers, fuck that. Shut up, Michael.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:50

Well, I I've already said what I think was the worst part of this movie, and that is the hold me closer tiny dancer part with the little miniature human beings. And although it was very cool to look at, it was completely out of place and takes you definitely out of the feeling of the rest of this movie for like a solid minute and making you judge, am I going to like anything afterwards? It was not the best move, in my opinion. Although it like I said, it did look cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:13

Yeah, I hear that. It's peculiar. And honestly, it's a small world after all. It's a real big missed opportunity, too. But quite frankly, even apart from how infuriated I am that the bride only gets like five to ten minutes tops, this movie is still absolutely re-watchable, and it's honestly rewatchable for even different reasons every time, right? On the one hand, it's technically impressive, on the other hand, it's funny, intentional or not, and it feels campier the more you watch it, but even beyond that, it's surprisingly emotional. We had that monster journey being super touching and the loneliness and rejection still resonating. This feels like a movie that rewards you with multiple viewings, and I caught myself throughout it thinking about modern sequels, even movies totally unrelated to it, right? I talked about how Frankenstein coded Halloween kills it, about cinematic universes and how ahead of its time this was, right? This honestly is going to be rewatched in a Universal Monsters Marathon for me. A before we see it in 2026, when we see The Bride. There you go. But also B before Universal's Epic Universe opens.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:24

Oh man. Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage. This I tell you, brother, you can't have one without the other. This I feel like is and remains to be like literally one of the best horror sequels of all time, but it wouldn't exist without Frankenstein from 1931. So I usually love to watch these movies back to back when I can because I think it's just a great back-to-back watch. It's a great double feature. So I'm definitely going to be watching this one again soon, and it's probably going to be back to back.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

Okay, Star Trek detour for just a moment. So just for warning, but I was watching an episode of Star Trek Voyager. It's called Memorial. And in that episode, Tom Paris, who is seeing at the time Alana Torres, she's half Klingon, by the way. Anyway, he just gets back from a long trip and she was like, yo, what's up, Boo? I've missed you. Look what I did for you, by the way, because I've miss you so much. She like 3D printed him. You know, she got the little computer he do-dad to make him up a vintage 20th century television. And they fire that thing up. She made him a clicker, even though she knows it's not time accurate for when this TV was made. She's like, I just thought it would be a cool little artistic touch. They fire it up, they start watching TV and what kind of TV they get. They get cartoons, they get black and white. It's all this. And I'm sure it had to do with trademarks and copyrights and all that kind of stuff. But even in the 90s, they respected that like classic TV and film would probably stick around for quite a while, even hundreds of years, and be enjoyed by other people here. And he he's addicted by the way he sits up all night watching it. But I'm here with him in this because I feel like if you were able to get yourself set up with a nice little home theater setup, or perhaps a projector on the backyard with a little screen, or if you were to find like a vintage early 20th century television, you somehow were able to play movies onto it, this should be on that TV, this should be on that projector, this should be in that home theater, along, like you've said, Sean, with the first film. I think there's a couple others we could lump into that, but there's just something about watching it. Chris, you've talked about the visuals of the movie that deserves a rewatch with the right medium, with the right interface to really get into it where you can respect it with its artwork.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

Wow. There you have it, folks. There's been a lot of respect paid to this movie tonight, even if this movie was a disrespect to the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But for now, there you have it. Bride of Frankenstein 1935 celebrating its 90th anniversary has earned a universal slosh. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means because there's a lot of depth and room for allegories and interpretations that we didn't even begin to scratch the surface on.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:12

Oh yeah, there is so much more life after death, and if you want to find out how you can go further than the life of this episode, consider supporting our show. You can go to patreon.com slash hacker slash and enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:32

If you think our brains were growing in a lab to be your new best friends, well, one, you're right. But two, leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all your horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

See you next time, folks. And remember, an audience needs something stronger than our pretty little love story.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:50

How beautifully dramatic.