406: The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It (2021)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Do you think the contortionists are just like contorting all over their house for fun all the time?

SPEAKER_02 0:13

Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. The connection works both ways. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Totally killer, pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies for the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Hey, the mummy lives!

SPEAKER_02 0:48

And the paranormal paramour Binks. Look at me. Open your eyes. This week we're digging into another film adapted for the case files of Ed and Lorraine Warren.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Oh yeah, and if you support the show, you'll also get to hear our B-side at the end of this episode, where we discuss the real life case that this movie is based on, as well as some other cases from Ed and Lorraine Warren that should be covered in the Conjuring Universe.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

In the early 1980s, a murder in Brookfield, Connecticut became the first US homicidal case to feature demonic possession as part of the defense. The incident centered around Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, a young man accused of killing his landlord. At the center of the media frenzy were the Warrens themselves, whose involvement turned the case into one of their most publicized investigations. The case would go on to inspire books, TV movies, and eventually a third installment in one of Horror's most successful franchises. While the story is rooted in a real court case, the film takes creative liberties to balance facts from the past, narrative hooks to appeal to horror fans, and explorations of what it could look like if some accounts were real. The film steps out of the haunted house setting of its predecessors and follows Arnie's torture journey from initial possession to his day in court, and depicts Ed and Lorraine's attempts to both support his defense and clear his name. This week we're talking about The Conjuring, The Devil Made Me Do It. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_03 2:08

I actually have seen this one before, of course. I remember actually watching it twice when it came out. It went straight to streaming because this was in the peak of COVID, I remember. So I was kind of disappointed it wasn't going to be in theaters, but excited that I could just revisit this as much as I wanted if I ended up really liking it. And I did. I watched it twice within the same week. But I have not seen it again since.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Yeah, I pretty much the same. You know, I'm I'm always here for the supernatural, ghosty demon shit, and it's no secret that obviously I enjoy the conjuring films. I slashed both the first one, the second one. So yeah, this is one that I've definitely seen before, but I think what's interesting is that I've I've actually only seen it once, and it was actually right when it came out. I bought, I think at some point right after it came out, the trilogy package came out to buy. So I bought that and I watched this with it. Yeah, but I also haven't seen it since.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Yeah, I did not watch this one when it first came out, but when I did watch it, was when we did the Conjuring 2. I ended up watching these things back to back, and ooh, I do not regret that one bit. Going into this one, I knew obviously that it was based on some court case, but I didn't know to the extent of how it was. I had never heard of that case before. So I went into this movie originally expecting just okay, it's gonna be more of the same with the conjuring. But getting into it, I was surprised to see that I was wrong. Uh yes, it is very much a conjuring movie. It is Ed, it is Lorraine. There are the classic James Wan kind of jump scare situations here. But this movie felt different from the others.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Yeah, I agree. And I think that that's what I was definitely looking forward to on this watch because I remember when it first came out, it felt like it was an unpopular opinion to like that movie because it was so different. The narrative style was a huge pivot because it wasn't so much like a haunted house as much as like a who-done it actual crime, you know? So this movie's very different, and I really enjoyed it when I first watched it. But this time around, I was expecting like, would it still have the charm? Would I feel the same way now that it's been so much time and that we've seen other Conjuring Universe properties at this point in between? So I was curious to see if like it still stood out amongst the overall franchise.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, I definitely remember not liking this one that much when I first watched it. I do remember that, and it's probably because it was so different from the first two films. I think you watch the first two conjuring films, and there's very much this vibe that you get in those movies. And then this one definitely does take a little bit of a turn as far as how it feels, points of view, different things like that. So it is it is interesting for sure. So I was kind of, you know, I'm always going into this one. It's been so long, I'm going into it with an open mind because I do love the conjuring films, so I feel like maybe it didn't give it a fair shake. So I wasn't really sure because it's been so long, like really what to expect, but I definitely was trying to go into it with an open mind this time.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

How did that open mind work out for you though?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I mean, listen, I feel like this film it does build a lot of tension, you know what I mean? I think it's especially in a handful of scenes that you keep like it keeps you anticipating what is coming next. So there is these subtleties that when I was watching it this time around, I don't know if I actually got the first time around. So I was really kind of enjoying that. There's always this chaotic or unsettling feeling with you know, movies that deal with things like possession or exorcisms and things like that. So you get a lot of that feeling. But what I think is really interesting, right, is the fact that we do get that different kind of feeling than we get from the first two films. So maybe, maybe it was something I wasn't ready for at the time or I wasn't prepared for at the time, because the first two films are very much haunted house films. And this one I feel like is on a bigger scale, it kind of feels bigger. The house itself, right? It's not a haunted house. It's like the house is suffering just like the characters in this one. It feels different. You feel what's happened to the characters, you feel what's happened to the house just with the opening scene, right? Which we can probably break down a little bit further in the spoiler section, but man, very different. It's a very different kind of possession film than we've gotten from the first two films.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think that's actually part of what makes it work for me, though. I found that the first two films, yes, they're haunted house movies, they're spooky, everybody loves them. They're good movies by their own right. But I found that this movie worked for me, and I think in some ways, when I initially watched it, I enjoyed it more than The Conjuring 2, because I was excited to finally like get something that felt fresher for what these movies were. We went from one haunted house right into the other, and I found that the this approach to the story, I mean, it it's no exorcism of Emily Rose in terms of like going to court and really looking at a true crime aspect or or or version of these events. It's not quite to that extent, but it did help me invest way more into the actual case at the heart of this story. And it wasn't scary, but it w it scratched this part of my brain that's very much into true crime. And I found that to be more compelling for me than the other conjuring films.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Yeah, I it's interesting you say that because I at the start of this recording you had asked me if I remembered like what this was actually based on. And weirdly enough, I don't. And I'm sure that when I first watched this movie, I did the deep dive, right? But of all of their cases, this one for some reason just doesn't stick as much, which is odd, because I do love like true crime and overall like the crime genre, thriller genre as well, adjacent to horror. So I feel like this time around, it really did lose a little bit of its charm, like I expected. I didn't feel as captured by what was going on. I felt a little bit more of the pace this time. And although there were some great scenes, I still got a couple jump scares here and there. I think that overall, I wasn't as captivated by the actual story. And it seemed a little strange. There's a bit of like a dual plot here that's going on and a little bit of a cliche at the end. So I felt a bit conflicted most of the time because I spent the whole movie feeling like, man, but I really liked this one coming around. Why don't I feel so strongly about it this time? Man, in 2021, you caught me at the top of the hill with the flag, waving it like this movie's fantastic. I don't know what y'all are talking about. Now it's not that I don't think it's good. I just didn't feel as passionate about it, which is strange. I will give it credit, though, that what I appreciate the most from this is that it felt a little bit more rooted in reality because it was about a true crime case. And I think that that's something that no one can take away from this movie. It's daring to kind of change it up with the plot, especially for at this point a really established film. Everyone knows and loves and praises the conjuring. And so anytime that you have another entry post that, it's really hard to top it, right? It's it's a very high bar. But I think changing it up when you've kind of had like the blueprint back to back and you've done the haunted house thing, like we've said, is bold. Whether that lands for everybody, I get it, maybe not, but I think that that's one thing that I'll always give it credit for, regardless if I've maybe felt a little bit less passionate this time.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah, I think the change, right? I think the change is what I feel like is probably one of the more surprising aspects of the film, right? It's that bold kind of genre shift in a way, right? Instead of that classic kind of haunted house story that we get, we get more of this supernatural investigation into the occult. And I think it was just surprising to see the franchise pivot away from its signature formula. You know what I mean? And it's not like it shines through in this movie, it just feels a little bit different for sure.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

It really does, and I think that's part of what my issue is to an extent. One, I do love that it's different from the haunted house setup, but where this movie is at its best, it still manages to suffer from and maybe this is like a bias for me, but I have come to just have this feeling towards a lot of films that are under the James Wan umbrella, even when he no longer has his hands directly in and he's not helming it as a director. It becomes this like rinse repeat and becomes like a like a shell of itself. And so a lot of the things in this movie felt very like, okay, time to just insert the classic conjuring moment, and then we can move on with the rest of the story. And to the point where I don't know that they always felt like they agreed to me. I didn't feel like it was a complete experience. And going into this one, having heard, you know, obviously because I didn't watch it when it first came out, hearing that there were some negative opinions about this one, I was like, okay, well, it's gonna go in either of these directions. And when people were talking about like it feels different, it it doesn't feel like the first two films. I watched this one and I was like, well, shit, they're still showing and telling. And I want you to do one or the other. And that's honestly what disappointed me the most about this. Because when you show and tell, it's just you're beating a dead horse and you're saying and over-explaining things that don't need to be over-explained. And then on top of that, your shit's not really even scary. It like takes the bite out of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 12:06

Interesting. Because you had me until maybe the very end. And I think that it's only because the fear aspect of it is really subjective, I think. I found that what surprised me was that I still got got, and maybe that's just because I'm a classic wuss. So I know that on the pod I like to be like the advocate for those that are on the fringe of I don't even watch scary movies because I get scared easily, and I watch them because I want to get scared. So it surprised me that there was still some fright to have. And for me, I think that the movie may not have as nearly as many intimidating like jump scares, like overall fright and uncomfortability as the first two. Please, nothing could ever touch Valak ever. But but I will say there are still just a slight couple scenes that I'll give it to them, that it still felt like you're saying, like a little bit like the classic, you know, James Wan of it all, that I found pretty intimidating. That I would say, if you are susceptible to that kind of stuff, and most certainly if possession is like not the thing for you, then you should not be watching probably any of the movies from this franchise at all. Then then I would say like this is effective in that regard. But overall, if I were to compare all three, yeah, this is not this is the least scary of the three.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, I feel like part of what could be disappointing with this movie is that it gets it tries to do too much, I think, right? They're telling a lot of different stories in this movie, or maybe it's the same story, but there's just like three different stories within the story that's trying to come through in this movie. And so it kind of feels like things are getting rushed, or we don't get enough time with this subject, or we're not exploring this idea or concept enough, or whatever it may be. And because of all of that, right, and even like down to the main antagonist, right, which we'll get into later. Like, there are some just some really interesting changes with this movie. And I think because of all of that, right, this movie it really felt like a roller coaster with the level of fright or terror that we're getting. I think this film started off really strong with some solid, scary shit. Like we get into some some good tension building, right? It starts off really strong, but then we get into the rest of the film and we, yeah, we get some tension, but fewer payoffs for sure. And so this film, it definitely has some strong chilling moments up front, but then the fear kind of fades into like thriller territory by the time we get to the end.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Yeah, that's a completely fair way to put it. And I think that's really where this movie like carves its own identity in comparison to the others, because when it tries to scare you and it tries to remind you that this is a conjuring film, you definitely get this these moments that just like are completely reminiscent of like long bony fingers lurking in the shadows. Like you're gonna see that, and it's very much a conjuring feeling. But uh what I admire about this is although that's not a flavor of scare that works for me or is effective for me in any way, what I can admire is just the heart of this story being a little bit more dis on the disturbing side. I really appreciate the way that they depicted this because you have this premise, and this is something that was hotly debated and hotly contested. Was this guy possessed? You have to imagine, okay, he's either completely full of shit or he really believes he was possessed. So, what was that lived experience and what could that look like? This goes through the paces of okay, let's explore what this could have looked like if we assumed it to all be true.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, I feel like that's interesting. It I think the it's the true crime focus in this movie, the antagonist angle, the expanded lore. I think all of that stuff, it does help to it it helps to almost separate itself from that formula from the conjuring and the conjuring two. But I do wish that it took some of the other interesting aspects that we get in this film and focused on them maybe a little bit more because I felt like some of it was underused and and maybe it would have maybe this could have benefited from like a two-part movie. I don't know. Maybe there was enough to tell in this story that we could have gotten like a part one and part two. That would have been interesting because I I they're exploring a lot of stuff in this movie that I think separates it from the first two films, but I don't think we executed as effectively as we could have.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

I'd agree there. Because I'm thinking of what I said earlier in terms of this feels like almost two stories in one movie, like two narrative plots, like two things that we are like having to go back and forth between. And sometimes that's really compelling in film. Other times I get a little bit lost. This time, I felt those two hours. And if it this movie's longer, then I then yeah, I wouldn't doubt it because something about it just didn't even feel like we had enough time to really dig deeper into one of the narrative plots versus the other. Like the main one that we know obviously is already in the overall case, right? But there's m something else that's introduced in this film that kind of feels a little bit off. I'll say that to its favor. I mean, I guess it's original because they, again, dare to kind of explore something else within something else. And the previous two films are pretty like copy and paste of what happens in the case and what we know in terms of Haunted House. This explores like two different things, occult and paranormal, that is compelling, don't get me wrong, but it's very like tough to kind of sink your teeth into when we have it just in one film and I don't know what I'm supposed to be focusing on. And unfortunately, I felt like what was super original about this film really fizzled out this time around towards the ending. The ending felt a little bit cliche, and I say that so nicely. Like this time around, it felt like it was more of an emphasis on the Ed and Lorraine show, which again, a fan, but like really cheesy. It it felt a little too cheesy for me.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah, listen, you're not wrong at all, and that's where I think I struggle the most with this movie because yes, the ending gives us forms of resolution, and narratively, I don't know if I wanted or needed anything different specifically, but the problem is that it goes to the point of just too much. And that's where I really struggle with this because it's like, okay, you have some candy, you have some candy, at some point it's too much fucking candy, at some point it's just too sweet. And the conjuring, yeah, okay, it's spooky, it's scary, it might it might fuck with you if you're really concerned about the paranormal stuff, but also it's a love story, and this movie really just drives home that this is the Ed and Lorraine love story. And listen, that's okay. Sometimes we just come to this place for a little bit of romance, but it does it it does just take the whole journey that we've been on for this whole movie, and then get to the point where it's like, okay, we could have stopped just a couple minutes ago. We could have watered it down just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes it's okay to have a little love story kind of thrown in there in the midst of all the horror and whatnot, but but I get it. I I do feel like this ending felt rushed, right? I said that earlier, and I I and that's what I'm talking about with this film. I I feel like it has a lot of really interesting things happening, but there doesn't seem to be enough time to really focus on anything too long. And by the time I feel like we get to the end, the climax doesn't feel as climactic as it should. And so I don't know. The yeah, the ending felt rushed for me. I think those those credits though, with the audio we get during the credits was absolutely harrowing, right? So, like, just that was a way to end the film right there.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Oh, it really was, and I cannot wait to see what this actually gets into in terms of what comes up in the conjuring the last rites. But before we even get to that movie, and we talk about that in a couple weeks, we gotta actually dictate here our scoring for this one. I'm hearing a little bit of a mixed bag. We'll see how it shakes out. Before we actually score that, Sean, how would you describe the gore score in this one?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, the gore is fairly moderate for a conjuring film, I would say. It's not like a splatter fest by any means, but it definitely leans heavier into the violence in the first two movies. I think mostly due to the murder case at its core, right? Like I feel like the gore, it's more suggested than shown, which can make it feel at times both tamer and creepier, depending on the scene. So it may be enough to unsettle you, especially with the contortionist stuff and things like that, but it's very restrained, and for that, it's getting a medium low gore score.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_03 21:16

There were a lot of dogs in cages, but none of them were harmed.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings and the conjuring. The devil made me do it. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_03 21:25

I'll start us off. I think it's pretty known by now on this show that I love the conjuring and I'm a big Edelarine Warren fan. Paranormal Paramour, duh, right? I was looking forward to us reviewing this movie because I remembered loving it and feeling like I might have been the only human being that did. But then I watched it. And sadly, the years have kind of watered down my love for this film. And I had rewatched The Conjuring and The Conjuring 2 recently. And I think that didn't help its case because although I have to commend this film for being so original, taking a chance, covering like a true crime case versus like a regular paranormal case, like they usually do, right? And they have lots of those, but I think that it was a nice pivot. But the problem is that it is really long. It's a long one, folks. And they start to explore other things that kind of feel like a major shift from the original plot of the movie. Like we start to get into other things that no one really asked for. And we can call it bold or we can call it a bit too much. And then lastly, where I appreciate and love this because I think that the actors that play Ed Lorraine Warren in this franchise have such incredible chemistry. And so I love their love story. The reality is that this film adds in a little bit too much cheese and like Netflix rom-com to like it just kills the mood, right? Like it's a little bit too much. And here's my thought. I understand that this movie came out like right after Lorraine Warren had passed away. So this could be, we can say, like an homage to their love story. But the real ones know that their actual love story is a little bit tumultuous. So when you have also have that context, it kind of just like continues to like can re, I guess, like kind of water down the fire, right? Like it just feels like it's smothering it. And my passion and my like gung ho nature about this film starts to feel like a little bit too real. So if you caught me talking about this movie a few years ago, I would have told you for sure it's a slash. But unfortunately, I gotta say, the years have not helped this movie at all. And unfortunately for them, this is now a hack for me.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Nice. Wow, that's very interesting. I think we are we are about to flip sides on this story because you loved it and don't like it now. And I remember not liking it, probably for the same reasons you might not like it now. But I did have a different perspective going into this one. I kept an open mind. I did enjoy it a little bit more. I feel like this movie took the franchise out of its haunted house comfort zone, and I think it took it into a darker, more investigative, true crime vibe, which I feel like is kind of right up my alley. You know what I mean? And the film kind of, I feel like in a way, hooks you with that spine-twisting opening scene. Like it's a really good open for the for the film, for the whole fucking conjuring universe. It's gotta be up there in one of the best openings in the franchise. But the use of the contortionist work, the tension building from that bathtub scene, it really feels like it sets a bar that the rest of the film kind of struggles to match. So there are a lot of flaws in this movie. Because from here on out, we get less haunted house and we get more of that occult detective story. Lorraine really goes full psychic Sherlock in this one for sure. Like we're really it feeling the investigative angle here. But I think despite all of that, it is the Warrens themselves that really hold this movie together because their story is always, to me, it's always just interesting. It's a love story, yes, but I think their story is intriguing. Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson, they ground the chaos with performances that I feel like always just remind us why we keep coming back to the franchise. So hopefully those two never stop doing these films as long as these films are going, because it would be completely jarring if we get new characters. I'd just say, I'm just gonna throw that out there. Terrible. And I think, you know, here's the thing: there were some campy scares that took away from the severity of this movie, but there were still a lot of standout moments that were filled with dread. And I think something about this movie this time around, it kept me possessed with interest. You know what I mean? And I think it's it's definitely not as good as the first two films by any means, but even with its flaws, I feel like, listen, the devil couldn't make me do anything but enjoy it this time around. So call me possessed, say the devil made me do it, but I'm gonna give it a slash.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Well, I think your demon is about to transfer right from your body over into mine because I still like this one, even more so than I enjoyed the second one. I know that I've been pointing out some flaws here in the earlier spoiler-free discussion, but that's honestly because I have so much good to say later on and just gotta get it out of the way. What really holds this movie together for me is not the Warren's love story, though, it's actually the entire cast, because this movie has really great performances. It has a super heartfelt narrative, and I'm more intrigued by the case than anything else. And I think this movie is such a great reminder of these being real people, and the events are debatable, they're questionable at best, they're false as fuck, but but they're still human beings at the root in the heart of every single one of these cases and these stories. And this sent me down an absolute rabbit hole of research and documentary watching and YouTube, and it was it was a lot. I was in deep today. This movie is part legal drama, yeah, it's part romance, it's definitely Herlock, it's a sleuth film for sure, but it still has horror woven throughout. And I think this is the style and the approach that I really needed to be really recommitted in to the conjuring franchise and to see it as something that I can enjoy versus just seeing it as another one of those things that James Wan's brand tends to do where they start really great and they get worse over time for me. This is not the best in terms of scares. In fact, I completely get Binks why this does nearly nothing for you in terms of liking this movie in present day after watching it again. But this movie arguably felt more emotional to me than the last two did, and it earns its placement as so far my favorite of this franchise. Actually, that's pretty fucked up. I don't know, because the conjuring, the first one was just objectively really great. My ranking is gonna be like up and down and up and down. In spooky season, we're gonna do watch parties in chronological order of the conjuring universe. So catch me after last rights, and I'll do my official ranking. But for now, the conjuring, the devil made me do it, has earned one hack and two slashes. We'd love to see it. Now, we have so much more to discuss when we get back from our break, so buckle up, enjoy the ride, watch this movie on max, and we'll see you in a bit for the spoilers.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

This episode of Hackerslash is brought to you by Warren and Glatzel attorneys at possession. Have you recently found yourself stabbing your neighbor 22 times while speaking in Latin that you didn't know you knew? Don't worry, we understand that sometimes the devil really does make you do it. At Warren Glatzel, we know the courtroom can feel a lot like an exorcism. Judges glaring, jurors whispering, the weight of damnation hanging in the air. That's why we specialize in defending the unfortunate souls who found themselves under new management. From unexplained murders to midnight rituals gone horribly wrong, our team doesn't flinch at blood on the floor, or voices that aren't yours whispering from the stand. We've stared into the abyss and the abyss signed our retainer agreement. Forget innocent until proven guilty. With us, it's innocent until the demon testifies. So if you've been accused of crimes darker than the basement of the Perrin farmhouse, call Warren and Glatzel today. Because when evil takes over your body, you need a law firm willing to fight tooth, nail, and crucifix. Warren and Glatzel. Where possession isn't a crime, it's a defense.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Welcome back, folks. You're not entering the spoiler zone for the conjuring The Devil Made Me Do It, which has earned one hack and two slashes. Now we have so much discuss here, but before we get into that, Sean, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

This movie has a very fitting number of deaths, let me just tell you, because there are 13 total deaths in this movie. Admittedly, some of these kills are mentioned, but they are important to the storyline, and so I felt it important to keep them in the list of kills for this one. But I am curious which one of these possessed stabbings really conjured something up for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Okay, if we're gonna go for just like a specific stabbing, can we just say I love the season of fuck them kids we're in where we actually just have kids stabbing? Like we had so much of this shit happening. Little David stabbing his dad in the leg. It's not a kill. I'll share a favorite kill in a bit. But I was just thinking about this, guys. We we had Sinister 2, we have weapons after we record this episode, and this episode is gonna come out after. You know, we just have so much happening this year, and kids wielding knives is certainly one of those things.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Absolutely. And also, shameless plug, but he's from The Haunting of Hill House. Put him in my pocket. Oh, I love that little boy. How cute! He's he is so cute, he's so cute. Actually, like the sweetest. You know who isn't the sweetest, and my favorite kill is Bruno Sauls. Yeah, that guy is so annoying, dead ass. He wasn't even in the movie for that long. I can't stand them. I can't stand them.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

This whole thing was very avoidable. When you get into the real story, there's like a lot of back and forth on what the actual situation was and the and the condition surrounding this man's untimely death. But in this movie, this guy specifically, it was just a little bit too much. I'm like, listen, I don't even blame this guy. Fuck it. I don't even blame him. Not the real life story, to be clear, but in this movie, yeah. In this movie, it was a lot. He was listening to great music, but it was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

In this movie, you didn't need to be possessed to take this dude out. Let's just put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

In this very fictional movie, I just want to be clear. No, I'm I'm right there with you, Vinks. I'm right there with you. That one was uh a little bit rough. I do uh deeply appreciate the death at the end with our Satanist, our occultist, this bitch, illegitimate daughter of a priest, you know, just she got what she deserved, but my disappointment is that her death was not prolonged enough.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yeah, that's the thing, right? Like, even though you know the ending was rushed, and this is part of it, right? This is part of it. We don't get enough payoff at the end. There's no climax, or it's not climactic enough, right? Like we wanted to see a little bit more of this final showdown, and it just felt rushed. I think the gruesome depiction of the consequences of the occultist actions still make it a strong kill, to your point, Chris. But yeah, like we wanted a little bit more in that showdown, no?

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that it's funny because I felt a bit stronger about her dad's kill, like Father Kastner's kill than her own, right? Like in terms of intensity. I felt like that kill was way more intense and like uncomfortable than her own when it should be this big showdown. And it also could have been in part to like a little bit of the CGI, like she was just contortioning just so much. It felt a little off. And now that I have now that I say this, again, the little boy is the sweetest can be. But don't you all ever think, like a lot of this contortion work when we see these possess these possessions, like these kids and these people would not be able to bounce back if they were not professional contortionists, right? Like if they were doing those kinds of things, they'd be goners, like they'd be in the hospital in like for a long time, wheelchair bound, like Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Okay, Bings, just so I make sure we're on the same page here. Are you saying were this to actually happen and someone to be possessed who was not a contortionist, their body their body would be riggedy wrecked and they'd be completely fucked post like this possession because of how much. Yeah, this is how you know that shit ain't real.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

You know it from a bunch of ways, but I feel like this conversation comes up every time you know we talk about exorcisms, you know, or at least anytime I'm in an exorcism conversation, this somehow comes up because yes, like the amount of shit that people go through in these freaking exorcisms, there's no way these motherfuckers are coming out of that alive. There's just no way. You're gonna tell me your head spins around 360 and you're just fine the next the next minute after you get some holy water fucking drops in your eyeballs, you know what I mean? You're good after that? I don't know. But yeah, we get in this all the time. It's an it's an age-long debate.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah, I want to see them really just I mean, obviously, they had a great fucking song choice for the scene where Arnie is like seeing this possession and he's about to stab the landlord. That's it was a great choice, right? But I do want to see an exorcism movie where you just hear you spin my head right round, right, round. I'm sure it's already been done in some kind of like spoof movie, but like fuck it. Why not just like completely lean into it?

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Yeah, yeah. Making fun of the exorcist at the very least.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Oh, brilliant scene and scary movie.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah, so hopefully something. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, listen, these two the kills that we're talking about between Bruno and the Occultist, definitely probably the best kills in the movie. You know, Bruno's kill is very much the centerpiece kill of the entire film, and the occultist really leaves you with like a really good sense of like the irony of it all, making it pretty satisfying, right? That it's a fitting and poetic end for this character. But I think also, and maybe we just didn't get to explore it enough, but I also think that Katie getting stabbed by possessed Jessica, right? And it's and it's really less about the kill itself, I guess, in this one, and more about the eerie vibe of Lorraine's psychic visions recreating the moment. I just kind of really enjoyed it. I I don't know if we could have lingered in there a little bit longer, but it was it was one of the standout kills for sure outside of these two. I think this is where the true crime vibe really takes over the horror of it all.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I I mean listen, it just fucking it figures that what I enjoy so much as a conjuring movie would be the conjuring movie where there's a bunch of people stabbing each other. It just makes sense. This is this is me being the slasher enthusiast, not the paranormal paramour. But did y'all get the vibe that Jessica and Katie were definitely dating in secret and in love with each other? Absolutely. I love that. It's great. Absolutely. Oh, you know, just my lavender lens seeing the world.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

No, no, no. No, listen, this ally for sure peeped that, and I was like, Oh, they're gay for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

We love that, yeah. Yeah, and you know what? It was a specific choice. Again, one of those fictional things that this did not occur. There was no connection into any any of this kind of situation related to this, but uh it did make me a little relieved because I swear to god, if there had been some kind of fucking worn mischief where they're like, Oh, these two lesbians killed each other, I would have been fucking pissed. The devil made them do it too.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Terrible. Yeah, that would have been a terrible angle.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Sorry, hold on, hold on. It would be it would be the corn hub version, the devil made me do her, would be Oh my god, it would be the title, The Devil Made Her Do Her. Yeah, that would be it. That's it. Welcome to Cornhub.com. We got it, we're back, baby.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

We're back incredible.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Oh my gosh. Absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. But listen, we we were touching on the exorcisms and all of the twists and turns of these things, right? And I feel like the use of the quin of the contortionists in this movie to create those possession scenes was such a nice touch. It was truly such a nice touch. It really added this body horror element that I feel like special effects and things like that could never truly capture on its own. Not in this way.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Oh, I agree with you. This shit that David was doing in the beginning of this movie, I was like, ugh. Like I again don't believe in this bullshit. But were I faced with this situation, I'd be like, Jesus Christ, this is how I know maybe I could never actually date someone this flexible. Because if some girls were to do that around me, I'd be like, okay, Binks was right. Binx was right. There was the there was the Ouija board.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Contortionism gets to a point, okay? It gets to a certain point where it's like, I'm alright with it. That's so cool. You do you, get your bag, don't bring that around my house. Because all of a sudden it gets a little bit too late at night. You start doing some of that shit. Nah, I'm gonna need you to stop or get the hell out because I can't tell what's what anymore. I don't know. And I don't want to take my chances, quite frankly. Who who also like you can't just be out here at the dinner table just doing all kinds of crazy stuff to you?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Do you think that contortionists are just like contorting all over their house for fun all the time? Like just just contorting for fun. Is contorting is contorting the verb? Is it the verb for this? Are we contorting? Maybe the art to contort.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Listen, I I don't know. I don't know, but I I do think that I'm I'm almost certain we have listeners who are this flexible for sure. We need all the contortionists to let us know what's up. We we gotta know. We're not flexible enough to find out. Educate us, absolutely, please. Now, I will say this this might actually be there, might be something here. I had tech issues before we started recording this episode. Sean and I just like body swapped during our fucking scores. That demon was you know traveling from one of us to the the other. And I'm gonna be the Sean of this moment and say this movie's soundtrack fucking slaps. Right. I fucking loved this thing. And again, maybe this is just the conjuring films in the 70s and the 80s, and just there's just great music in that time that I love. But there's a very specific moment, and you know, Sean, if Ari were with me, we would have been enjoying this together.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Oh, she already called it.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

It was suspicious minds, yeah. She called it.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

She called it. She's like, Chris is gonna love this scene.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Oh, I loved that shit. I loved that shit so much. I'll go into it because it is actually one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie. But the subtlety of just having this detective driving them, and he's already a skeptic. She's proven something, and he's like, hmm, hmm. I still don't believe it, but I believe it a little bit. That song choice was just so good. But then to make it a whole plot point and then just leap in the Elvis for the jokes and the chuckles with Lorraine Warren, fucking fantastic. This movie's music definitely hits.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

It was super good, and it's not even just the soundtrack, too. I think you know, Joseph Bishara has scored every main conjuring film, right? And I feel like we what he does with this score specifically, he doubles down on those unsettling soundscapes, and I think it it does help to build the dread in this movie. You get those like really deep droning tones, there's like menacing strings, it almost makes the score of this movie feel like this derm the this derm, this demon lurking in the background. And yeah, so it's like the song choices and the score, but what do you expect coming off of the other two films with Joseph Bichar at the helm?

SPEAKER_03 42:31

I think that the music choices and the score is definitely great. Absolutely. I was waiting for the confirmation that that was an Elvis song because when you made the connection, I was like, okay, that's a bit Elvis. But I will say that I think you had mentioned it earlier, Sean, the bathroom scene and like establishing shots that started us all off. Man, I don't even know. Like that cinematography is crazy. I I feel like the hands being like on the curtain rod, right? Or I guess the tension rod for the uh bathroom curtain, and you're not quite sure. Is that a hand or is that other hooks? Like you can't quite place it, and then the blood coming out of the shower head. Yep, it's a small kid, like it's all so unsettling, it's all rich, it's very, very fucking good. Yeah, it's shot incredibly.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

A child bathed in blood is such a fucking specific sight that I hate, and it was super effective. That was wild.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

Absolutely. No, it's it's bold and it's gonna stay in the head. And I feel like I wanted so much more of that. We do get some great scenes too. I actually also like the shot of Arnie when he turns around and he's just like full of blood, just staring at the cop with his hands like opened a little bit, like this vulnerability, right? There's also something to be said about how they look when they're possessed. I think the makeup work is so cool and really like weird. It's creepy. There's a lot. There's lots of praise here. On the other hand, I think there's certainly some scenes that, like cinematography wise, that felt a little bit cliche. You know, we get the shots that is definitely an homage to the exorcist, the priest approaching the house. There's this other one that I feel like is in every freaking horror movie that's or haunted house or whatever horror movie that it's when people think that they hear something from the roof. And so it just kind of like a, you know, at this particular angle where they're you're looking from at them staring at the roof, and they're turning around, and so is the camera. We're all just turning around, looking for those sounds. And I'm like, why is that always in every fucking movie?

SPEAKER_02 44:38

You spin my head right, round, right, round.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Like a fucking baby.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Right, round, haunted.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Oh god. It's just so cliche. But whatever. I mean, that those are small little nitpicks, right? In comparison to I thought a lot of really cool scenes that were just established really well as stills and photographed incredibly. So something you don't expect from a conjuring movie. Let's give it that.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

For sure. And you know what, Binks, you mentioned the makeup, and you're talking about that moment earlier where he like turns around and he's just covered in blood. I want to zero in on this because as I mentioned in the top half of the episode, the way they cut in and out of reality, both with Arnie seeing this hallucination as he is running away from him, but then also for Lorraine to be cutting in and out of reality of her psychic vision versus what Ed and the detective are saying in the woods. This movie knows how to fucking deliver that. Because so often are we shown something spooky and haunted, and we are expected to just, okay, this just it is what it is. We gotta just take this now. But being able to just dip in and out of reality that way, it makes it so much more compelling. And that's why this scene we're like shit actually goes down with Arnie, and we have him getting home earlier that day, he's not feeling well, the boy is sick as fuck and sweaty, and they're just not letting this man live. Like, sir, go knock out. This is like irritated Ryan Reynolds in the Amityville horror. Like, nah, just go take a break, my guy. Take it easy. But to have that moment, to see how this whole thing escalates, he he walks into a room, he's seeing something that it looks like a very different situation than what it actually is, and then to eventually see him later down the road, walking down the road in plaid, covered around turned in blood, there's just this like chilling aspect here. And I was curious to see how closely that translates to what happened in the real case. Now, obviously, obviously, guys, we fucking know what's going on here with this movie and how it sensationalizes and fictional, you know, and fictionalizes a lot of this stuff. But it was interesting to just see what that dynamic was. It was just very, very interesting, and I cannot wait to talk about this in B-sides.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Oh, for sure. Definitely. I think, you know, Binks, you talked about the kind of that opening scene that you know we were kind of mentioning even before, right? And that bathtub scene and the haunting, you know, that where David is being haunted by the demon or or whatever that leads straight into the exorcism. And, you know, we we said a lot about that with the blood shower and everything, and definitely one of the strongest scenes probably in the whole franchise. But I do think, you know, you also mentioned the cliche kind of callback to the exorcist. And I gotta admit, I was a sucker for it. I kind of loved that whole start leading into the opening scene, like it's just the way that it transitioned. I loved the call back to the exorcist, I thought it was really well done from from just like the cinematography, the way it looked. It wasn't exactly to a T, but it gave you that vibe perfectly, and then you go into the house. And what I loved about how we went into the house is that this is where you see exactly how this feels a little bit different than the rest of the films, because you're not walking into a house and it doesn't like where it starts off where, like, you know, you're introduced to the family, and you know, maybe some maybe some things feel a little bit off, but for the most part, everything's kind of chill, and then the the hauntings kind of creep on you, right? This is not what that is. Like you walk into this house and you know that something wrong has happened here. You walk in there and there is claw marks across the walls, the house is in disarray, the house feels like it has suffered just as much as the rest of the characters in this movie. And so I really, really, really enjoyed how the call back to the Exorcist with the priest walking up to the house, going into the house, seeing the state of the house led into this beautiful opening scene. And so it was almost like the perfect setup for that scene, and it built like everything, it set the bar for everything you needed to know, and it was very, very well done.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Yeah, I really, really enjoyed that. And I just wanted to shout out because you reminded me of it, and make sure you mentioned the claw marks as well. I loved the execution of him holding David in his arms, pulling him around the house, and then David isn't touching the walls at a certain point, but you still see the claw marks. It's giving demonic Matilda.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

Which is great, which is absolutely great. It can't re I don't know. I feel like those little things are so thoughtful to the idea of what possession is, you know, that it's obviously more than just physical, it's metaphysical, it's like things are happening around the body as well. But yeah, that that whole intro scene is like probably why I liked the movie so, so much. So in hindsight, it's 2020, right? I would say, aside from the bathroom scene for sure, one scene that like really stands out to me isn't quite a scene, but we talked about it already. It's the end credits. I think that that's honestly like my favorite part of this whole franchise and especially Conjuring movies.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Because let's not forget, like, this is also based on these two people that very much did this work, whether you believe it to be true or not, it doesn't matter, right? Like, this is their tapes. This is the things that they had in their house, like their recordings, their files literally being played right now. And for the superstitious like myself and Vero and like plenty of other people, our listeners as well, that might be like sometimes that kind of stuff playing is a little bit too much and a little bit too eerie because now we're like grounded in, oh, this is like what actually happens, and whether they really were possessed or not, whatever. That's beside the point, right? It's not pleasant to hear a kid, you know, it's one thing to see a child actor be possessed and that whole bit. It's the actual kid himself screaming on tape and the sounds that he makes and the things that he says, that's the stuff that leaves the impression. So maybe it's not a scene, right? But it's like a component of the films in general with conjuring that I really, really love. And people that see these movies in theaters, like that leave a little bit too early, you're missing out, man. And it's actually what I'm looking forward to the most in this next conjuring film because I hope that they keep that, but also, of course, like the montage and the like, oh my god, it's finally over, whatever. But I I feel like all of those things are just so impressive.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I actually watched the Netflix documentary The Devil on Trial earlier today, and we're gonna be talking about that more on the B side, but in that documentary, they play the original recordings and they show the original photographs that were taken while this was all happening, allegedly, to David in some capacity. And it's really interesting to hear so many different perspectives on the same story, and then to also hear some phone calls that were recorded between Lorraine and their and David's mom. And that's a really interesting bit as well. I can't wait to get into it. But I actually want to just go into one more favorite scene that I had. And it's actually not even a favorite scene, but it does set up like this I don't know, this almost like Stranger Things-esque moment. And I see Stranger Things in in retrospect because this season of Stanger Stranger Things came out after this movie. But it's at the end with Arnie levitating, we have the priest just doing his shit. Arnie is about to cut himself into pieces. This was his last resort, but then you have Debbie pleading with him, and it's their fight and her fight to keep him alive while Ed is fighting with his own memories, and Lorraine is begging him to remember and to find himself deep within him. Here's my problem. I enjoy this on principle and the parallels there. Like, listen, uh, love conquers all is what this whole movie is about. However, this is one of those things that they show you and they tell you, and it was just and it was just a little bit too much. I loved the way that Debbie was going for Arnie, and like just like barely like clinging onto him with all of her might and her strength, trying to keep him alive. And then with Lorraine and Ed, we have Ed just looking like an absolute maniac. He is like fighting himself and it's flickering back and forth to some memories, so we get that. But uh we didn't need Lorraine's voiceover the entire time, like that was just too much. It's either like, give me Ed with little flickers of his memories, and she screaming in like the real present moment, she's saying, Please remember, please remember. But to have the fictional, like the the home like out of body, like it's a psychic link almost. Remember this, like it was it was just too much. It was too much.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Yeah, it was a lot, and I get it. Like, we're trying to depict the chaos that the occultist, the Satanist, you know, that's the whole motive for Satanism, right? Is just to pr is just to really just unleash chaos all the time. And and I get it, that's what they're trying to depict is how this occultist is just you know using chaos to really just fuck everyone's mind up, and you can see the manipulation of like they don't really know what they're doing because they're in a sense possessed, right? And so it is interesting, but yeah, they they did a lot there, and they did a lot in a lot of different scenes. Like, I just feel like and they're just doing so many different aspects of the f of this film, like we just get so many angles between the occultist, between Ed and Lorraine's you know, love story that they got going on. Then you've got the court trial, you know what I mean, that we didn't get enough of, you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like we just had so many different things spinning around in this movie, and so that's where I was like, these some of these things are just gonna feel rushed, or it's not gonna be executed properly, and that's where I feel like we could have done a little bit better, or we could have maybe split this up into that two-part movie that I was mentioning. But you know what I mean? But uh man, there are a couple of scenes that I feel like had a lot of potential, and I think we're ruined by I don't know if it was intentional or unintentional campiness, right? But like the waterbed scene definitely could have been a lot better, but instead it ended up feeling like we were getting like a uh ghost hunter's reenactment, you know what I mean? So it's just that whole when the face flashes through the waterbed, I mean, that was just not great. Let's just face it, it just wasn't too good. And the same can be said with even that janitorial scene, you know what I mean? Because they built a lot of tension in that scene. It started like you knew when you were entering that scene, you're like, somebody out there for sure can relate to this. Like that scene starts, and you're immediately like, this is not good. Something fucked up is about to happen. It's too dark, it's too focused on somebody mopping a floor for us to really care that this dude is fucking mopping a floor. Something else is gonna happen here, and it builds the tension, and then the jump scare we get with the crazy eye demon thing, like it felt too campy. And hey, listen, the conjuring, we had the first one, the witch at the top of the you know, dresser, and that was kind of campy, but I was kind of here for that camp. It just like added a nice little chuckle, a little like jump scare chuckle, like your heart jumped a little bit, but then you laughed out loud right afterwards, that kind of thing. I think maybe this thing was trying to do something like that, but instead it was just a laugh out loud moment.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Yeah, to be clear, this is just fucking unintentional camp. This is a movie that's trying to scare you. Like this movie is not trying to be funny, minus like the small moments of humor, like the Elvis discussion in the car. That was these are things that that people are really just like, I was gonna get them. And that's that's part of what makes this movie feel watered down and weak. But it's not just this movie. That's why I still like this one, because it's fucking every movie since the conjuring within this universe in this franchise. It's the same shit like rinse and repeat in terms of scares. It's just okay, it's a doll instead of a fucking ghost, or it's uh the the fucking La Llorona out in the fucking puddle. It's just it's one or the other, but you're gonna get largely the same antics or behaviors.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

Yeah, for sure. Things coming out of a dark corner, etc. Like, absolutely. And again, knowing that sometimes I still get got and that's fine, but there's a lot of I guess like a lot of unoriginality when it comes to these kinds of scares at this point. And there are a lot of movies in this franchise, so I understand absolutely. But here's my like a little bit of my gripe with what is supposed to be like a major antagonist and incite the most fear. This occultist feels like she tried to compete with a nun and you couldn't even touch her with a candle, you know?

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

And she also felt like if we were to put a percentage on it, like maybe she was like 15% of this movie. It's kind of reminding me of Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, where like Beetlejuice's first wife is supposed to be the main villain, but we only have her there for a short amount of time, and she's not actually that intimidating and she gets got so quickly. This is that equivalent. At least that's how it felt. I really would have loved a bit like one or the other, truly. If this is like a possession thing and it's about an occult that is like inciting this kind of possession, then let's lean more into the occult and like really just shift the investigation part of it, make it a little bit tighter, and let's dive into her backstory a little bit more, something to that effect. But it felt like by the time that we got there, we had already spent an hour and 45.

SPEAKER_02 59:21

You know, I I just was struck with a realization of another reason why I like this movie. But I want to go on the journey that you're on here for just a brief moment because the problem with this woman being the hmm, being the big bad in this movie is that she's not giving big bad. It doesn't feel like these movies are operating in an escalating level of how bad the villain is. Because where are the stakes in that? You know what I mean? It should feel like, okay, yes, we all know Ed and Lorraine Warren passed away for very different reasons of in very, very old age, so we know that nothing we see on screen is gonna be the end of them. But where are the stakes? Uh why did they why do they face more danger seemingly in the Conjuring 2 versus in this film? Like it has to feel a bit more personal. And so there's no risk there. Instead of feeling like an escalating level of tension, it feels like, okay, it's the mystery inking, and they just found one more old man with a mask, and it's like, oh god, if it wasn't for you meddling kids, if it wasn't for you meddling warrants, again, this is very sleuthy. This being very Scooby-Doo-coated is probably why I fucking love a lot of this movie. But the one downfall here is the villain doesn't really fucking sell it. It seems like she's like on the precipice of like doing some really fucking cool and evil shit, and she does do some evil shit to be clear. But where's the scale? Yeah, where's the impact?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

You can't go the scale was there before we started seeing more of the villain here.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Mm-hmm. You you just cannot go so hard in the first two conjuring films and then just give us this, yeah, and expect it to be a believable villain. You know what I mean? Like, I'm more intrigued by the true story of this guy not actually being fucking possessed than I am this occultist. I feel like we didn't need that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

Right. And listen, I'm not an expert on this story. You just watched this documentary, so we'll get into it in B-sides and see, like, you know, maybe you can let us know a little bit like how similar some of this stuff is compared to what you saw in the documentary. But look, I I feel like we just the problem is is that we got too much of the occultist, right? Like in a in a sense, like the problem is is that we we built this story, if you will, right? Like we have the we have the the priest who then like raised the girl who then became obsessed with the occult, who then became a Satanist, who is now the occultist, and like and the guy kind of knows, you know what, and it's like why why did we have to create so much story there? Leave all of that shit out, throw it all out the window. Fuck the dude could have been the dude the whole time, and I would have been fine with that. Like that that guy was creepy as fuck. Like he could have easily been the Satanist that we were that we were after, you know what I mean? Because he kind of looked the part. But I feel like as soon as we had to develop a story and just throw it at you at the at the end or towards the end just to make it make sense, it just didn't feel right. And then, yeah, and then to your point, Chris, also she just didn't sell it well, at least not when she was like in her most normal state on screen, right? Like if we didn't get to see that at all, but we knew that something was happening, it would have been cool. If we dove into the trial more and we were and it was more of the exorcism of Emily Rose type shit, and we were jumping back into you know shit that was happening as they were depicting it in the courtroom and things jumping back like that, that could have been intriguing. But I just feel like we were it's a tough one. I like the idea of this occult Satanist, you know, causing chaos and possessing people. Very cool, very intriguing. But like I think we just did too much.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Yeah, we absolutely did too much. And we absolutely did too much, and I wonder if it's because of like the sake of parallel. I I do wonder that because we have Arnie and Debbie, Ed and Lorraine, and then father-daughter. It's like love in all its forms, and the lengths that you go to and the the spiritual ties that you're fucking will like set, bind, and and cut in the sake of love and and for the name of love. But it it's not well executed. We didn't need him, we didn't need her. Let me tell you what I needed more of. I needed more of David at that fucking prison table, recognizing the possession in Arnie and talking about how he knew how much how it felt, talking about how you know he remember he remembers how it felt to be cold and never alone. And that is the kind of chilling, like, oh shit, that we needed more of. And none of that was related at all to the fucking occultist. Minus like, okay, yes, this family ended up being bound by this because of her, but we didn't need it. Like we we could have lived with the mystery of we don't know how this possession fucking came about, and just relied on like more like the the truth behind the story versus this. It's almost like they tried to put this truth on top of a foundation, and instead of like a proper foundation, they just made like a fucking little foundation of popsicle sticks.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

Trying to piece together all to tie in this whole theme of love, when in reality, at least from my perspective, it just translates into something that's so cheesy and the actual theme, this idea of like love conquers all, that I don't know, maybe I'm in a particular season of life, but like I roll, bro, like enough is enough. But whatever. Point is this theme of that ends up being lost. It comes off extremely cheesy. Meanwhile, I'm like, why are we doing all kinds of movies in one movie? I I don't remember that being the case, and it's so evident now. Absolutely, because to that point, I wish that we would have seen that for sure, coming from like David and Arnie in in the prison, because how creepy is that to get insight and advice from a kid? Yeah, that's what's really, really creepy. And honestly, I think that might be like the best part of the film. Not the end credits, I already said that part, but the best part of this movie is David and the whole bit, the whole intro, his involvement, everything. I think that when you get a child actor that can really do it and sell it, and then in general, the idea of children being possessed is so it makes you uncomfortable. It's so wrong. There's so we can that's a whole Conversation, right? But it's just like the vulnerability, the innocence, the purity of children to be tainted by something that is so opposite to that is sick. It's really, really sick. And I think that this movie did it really well. And I wish that in some ways we could continue to lean into it a little bit more because the whole point of it was that he took that away from him to save him, right? So that could have been a really great focus. I would have bought more into that kind of idea of love or whatever than all this other mess and this occultist, etc.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Listen, David is one of the greatest parts of this movie for sure. I think this cast really sold it all throughout. I think this movie is filled with really strong performances, which is why I was so invested in this cast. The worst part of it is what we were just talking about. It is this movie's and honestly, this franchise's inability to refrain from overindulgence. It's overindulging in the formulaic scares that it has in saying, yes, we're gonna make a point, but we're also going to just repeat the hell out of it several times. We're gonna show it to you on screen, we're gonna say it out loud and make sure there's like no hint or drop of subtlety in this movie. That's what kills me. That is one of the things that I know that I've seen, I guess in in retrospect, a healthy amount of the conjuring films without having seen the whole franchise yet. But that is the thing that makes me not look forward to watching all of them. It's because I know I'm just gonna get more of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Yeah, it is just like the too much going on thing, I think, just really brings the movie down just a tad, right? Because I think it definitely could have been a lot stronger, even though I definitely enjoyed it more this time around. Yeah, it just I don't know. You know, it's the it's the theme for me in this in this episode. Like, are is it does it need to be two movies? I don't know. Does it need to focus in a different direction? I don't know. Some scenes are really strong. Like, what if they just did like the trial where they played the actual tapes during the trial, and then you went back and saw like bits and pieces, like some of the scenes that we got with the exorcisms and like the killings, and we spent a little bit more time in those areas. That would be fucking I I would be here for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

Yeah, that would be dope, but then that would have required the judge to allow that defense to actually be used, and they didn't. So that's you never made it sport.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's true, but you know, we can we can dream, you know, we can dream. I also hated, even though nothing happened to these dogs, I absolutely hated seeing like all those dogs just in those crates like that, because you could tell they were just not having a good time in those crates.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

Yeah, yeah, it was not a good time for them. And really, if this movie wanted to fuck with us even harder, it could have taken Arnie hallucinating that those dogs would be dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

But I will say this despite the worst parts of this movie, I actually do find it super re-watchable, and I enjoyed it a lot this time around after having seen it a second time. Again, and I think it's because of this true crime aspect of it. Again, asterisk on that. We're gonna get into that in the B side, but it just helps this movie feel much more grounded. And when you have at the very base of it, okay, and maybe in past films, it's are these kids telling the truth? And is this house actually haunted? Okay, sure. In this one, it's like, okay, there was a crime that was committed, but why was it committed? And I think it really just speaks to this like part of my brain that needed that for a conjuring movie. So I am open to re-watching it again, and I cannot wait to re-watch it again in our spooky season in our Discord server with all of our friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

Nice. Yeah, I mean, I would definitely watch this one again for sure. I don't know why it took me so long to re-watch this one, especially because I own it. It's just very strange. So, you know what? I'll probably do it, I'll probably do a conjuring binge at some point in the future, and so it'll happen at that time at the very least. But we'll see when that happens.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:20

Yeah, absolutely. For all that I've said about this film, I would definitely re-watch it again. I mean, I once loved it, and it's not like I absolutely hate this film. It just was disappointing enough to get that hack from me. But in general, I love this franchise. I love Ed and Lorraine Warren and and like them just to your point, Scooby-dooing around, you know? And I am so excited for this next film, so may not be like in the cards for me to re-watch all of them in time for the next film, but when we do do these watch parties and stuff, that's gonna be so fun. And I think, of course, if you're gonna do it, do them all, right? I don't say that a lot about some other franchises. Don't trick me. I'm not gonna do it for Friday the 13th, I'll promise you that. But for this, I would re-watch.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

Well, I can't wait to see how these rewatches go, especially starting in chronological order, like the way that the franchise actually takes place. That's gonna be interesting for sure. But for now, there you have it, folks. The Conjuring The Devil Made Me Do It has earned one hack and two slashes. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Yeah, if you want to find out what happens behind the scenes and you want to listen to our tape after the credits roll, you should consider supporting the show because you can check out patreon.com slash hackerslash and enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

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