410: Sinners (2025)

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Did you all know that that character was heavily inspired by the wolf from Puss and Boots The Last Wish 2022?

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Spooky season greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You came over here for fellowship and love. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or slash the killer unintended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with a perspective we've all gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super flight space guy Mac. You drooling, the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Y'all smell anything? I think I shat myself.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

And the paranormal paramour, Binks. Boy, if you don't get the fuck out of my face. This week we're checking out a film that has become our show's most highly requested episode this year.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Definitely. And be sure to stick around for our B-side at the end of this episode where we dive into some of the historical culture of this film.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Before we get down to business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Let's follow up on a season. Specifically, spooky season. It is officially here. Sharpen your pencils and raise your knives. You know, if you missed the news in our last two episodes, we're celebrating with double the episodes. Fridays are for reviews, and Tuesdays are for our bonus episodes. Think of them as horror electives.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Mm-hmm. We'd love to see it. Sean and I actually just had a great time. We went over spooky season bucket lists.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

We sure did. It was a great time. You got to listen in.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

I feel like that should be its own movie, the spooky season bucket list. It's like a sequel to that other bucket list.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Yeah, we're gonna add that to the continuing list of movies that we fucking invent here and then say we're gonna make.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

The list is extensive.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

I feel like that list could be 10,000 items long by this point. Now, free sides are unlocked for everyone, and our Discord is packed with events like watch parties, game nights, spirit week, and a yearbook of horror superlatives.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Oh yeah, y'all aren't ready. It's gonna be fucking great.

SPEAKER_05 2:21

So if you want to learn more about the spooky season festivities, check out the link in our show notes. So we want to take a moment now, though, to welcome a few new members of the horror family. We've got some new blood. Patrick, Brendan, and Amy, welcome. We welcome you. We provide you a seat, and now we stare at you uncomfortably.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

And thanks for donating your blood. We love it. And as just a reminder, for our new blood drive this year, if you are new to the family or you're returning to the family, you can get 50% off your annual membership. And as we discussed, I think it was like two episodes ago, cheaper chaper than Chipotle for two people. So there you go.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

That's wild. That gets me under the city.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah, it was the affordability recommendation here.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Love it. Love it. Well, that's our follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Well, something else we love earlier this year, director Ryan Kugler gave audiences a film that quickly became one of the most defining horror releases of 2025. While he initially made his debut with Fruitvale Station in 2013 and became known for his work on franchise films and blockbusters, Kougler shifted his work towards original storytelling and gave us a film praised for its ability to blend folklore, history, and music. It also captivated audiences not just with its sheer scope and ambition, but also with the way that it captured the heartbeat of the Mississippi Delta. And what began as an initially modestly hyped picture grew into a box office force, ultimately grossing more than $365 million worldwide. The film follows a pair of twin brothers returning to their hometown in the Mississippi Delta, hoping to leave their troubled past behind and start fresh. What they find instead, though, is a landscape haunted by history, faith, and an evil that's been waiting for them. This week we're talking about sinners. What were you all expecting going into this one?

SPEAKER_04 4:15

I mean, I could tell you I remember one watching this movie when it hit theaters. So I also remember saying after I watched this movie that it was easily one of the best horror movies of the year at the time. So needless to say, super excited to finally get this on the pod. I know it's been highly requested, and that's myself included. Highly requested also by me. I'm with you all. I can't wait to talk about it. So I guess at this point, we're just gonna see how it holds up after all these months that have passed by.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah, that's true. I initially didn't even see the trailer for this film. I only saw a glimpse of Michael B. Jordan holding an automatic weapon. And I unfortunately judged it by that alone and figured I it wasn't gonna be my kind of film. I didn't even fully realize that it was a horror film. I remember Chris and I talking about it, but I was like, nah, it's an action film. Maybe it's not gonna be my cup of tea, but I eventually went to see it in theaters. And let me tell you, I was expecting not what I got. It was a ride, that's for sure. But horror and just kind of like the exploration of that. I thought it was gonna be in modern times, folks. I was not ready for it to be the Mississippi Delta.

SPEAKER_05 5:31

I think a lot of us have had this movie presented to us by people that we know. And for me, that was my friends and the trailer a little bit. You know, I'd seen trailers in front of other movies, of course, but really what I got, what I distilled down was that this was gonna be moody. It was gonna be musical. That's what I heard for some folks. It was gonna be tense and dark and really gritty. That's kind of the feeling that I got from those around me because people raved about this for months after it came out until I finally got to watch it.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah, man. What a thing to walk into this movie with. When the news of this movie broke, I know that we knew a core aspect, or at least I had heard what the core aspect was of, you know, really what brings this movie into the horror genre. But this is one that if our schedule was to have aligned slightly better, we would have seen a review of this movie when it was actually in theaters. But there was a ton of stuff happening. None of our schedules matched up for a little bit there with theatrical releases, and so we made the decision to hold it. And in the time that that happened, everybody, it feels like that I knew went and saw this movie. And let me tell you that that immediately generated such a high level of fear because I only recently was able to watch Hereditary after having it spoiled and overhyped for me. Now, again, I really enjoyed Hereditary, it was a great experience, but it took a long time of me having distance from when it came out to finally being able to see it without being like influenced by other people. Now, what I'm really excited about is walking into this movie. I came with the expectation that it was gonna be great and that it was going to be layered, but nobody else overhyped or overly praised this movie beyond that. It was just the quiet confidence of this movie fucking rocks, best horror movie of the year. Go see it for yourself. And that was a level of excitement that I could really dig into. But going into this one and like actually finally getting around to it, I watched it for the first time in a watch party with our patrons now that it's available streaming at home. Let me tell you folks, this movie got under my skin. Did it do that for you all of you?

SPEAKER_05 7:52

It really is hypnotic, if I had to sum it up as in one word. I think every frame here, just visually, you get tension, but also it's beautiful. But also you feel uneasy while watching it. It's kind of it's not a haunting, like a ghost movie, but it's a haunting feeling as you're watching it. It's got like this gentle buzz to it, like you step outside and you're worried that lightning is gonna hit. You can just feel it in the air.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Man, that's such a good way of describing that, Mac. Man, I think about just the experience and the emotion of watching this. And this is one where I found myself feeling like, oh my gosh, I am utterly invested. Like this is a movie that I watched on the heels of having seen The Conjuring Last Rights, and knowing that we spend a lot of time with significant characters in that movie, but coming out of that movie, I felt like okay, but we spent a lot of people time with people, and I could have done less of time with those people and more time spent on other things. But this is one of the ones where I felt like every second was well invested, and I was well invested because I had moments where I was laughing out loud, but at the end of the day, I was sitting there absolutely gutted because this movie is visceral, it's painful. It left me thinking about this long after it ended. I've been so looking forward to this recording tonight because the power of the performances and just every nuanced layer of where this movie invests its time absolutely has payoff.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Yeah, I mean, there's just so much going on in this movie. I truly feel like this is a movie that has something for everybody, right? Like you could even not necessarily be like an avid horror fan. You could be like into crime drama, you can be into historical time period pieces, you could be into all kinds of, you could just be into like a good blues story. You know what I mean? You can be into all these different things, not just horror, and really just have a good time with this movie. And I just really think that what captivated me was the blend of this the blues story that we got, this history, this culture, the horror, all of it blended together. It was such a great angle and the story, honestly, just the story that this movie was able to tell, matched with those strong performances that you're talking about, Chris. It really just keeps you engaged throughout the entire film. It was just really unique, is the best way I can describe the feeling of this movie.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Absolutely. I think it is in an incredible example of keeping the audience captivated from start to finish. There's so much to chew on. There's gotta be so many like analysis and reviews of this film that I could spend hours watching and listening to, just getting people's perspectives like we do on the show, right? And I think it's beautiful and heartbreaking. And it really is a testament to an ensemble and how you can really take your time exploring each individual character, like you were saying, Chris, with the opposite of conjuring last rights, where it's maybe a little too many cooks in the kitchen. Here it's like we had just enough time with every single person to feel all an array of things for each individual human. And I and I really loved that part.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah. Bings, it sounds like a great moment for you to just pull back the classic. The ensemble was ensembling.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

You're right. And it's been a bit since we've said that, huh? That goes to show you. It's incredible. No, the ensemble is definitely ensembling here, and it needs all the flowers and awards, that's for sure. But the thing that really surprised me the most, and I think what captivated my attention was the actual plot and that I can't wait for us to really dive into and unveil, because that's the part of this film that when I tell you that I was beyond shocked and jaw-dropped, I was like not expecting this whatsoever. Again, we're talking about I went into this with only one still from the film. And when it started to get into this particular horror trope, I thought, wow, this makes sense. We're really like doing something here that's extremely unique. And in turn, this disappointment is really on me. I saw it in theaters, but I unfortunately saw it like two rows in front of the screen. Like I was a little too close to the screen. So that also just goes to show you how popular the film was, even days after it had premiered. But that also means that I was a little too close to the speakers, folks. And I had a really hard time listening to some of the dialogue. I got one hell of a visual, that's for sure. I felt like I was in the Mississippi Delta, but as far as like the music and some of the dialogue, a little bit of the layering of the sound design, it was a little tough to follow. So I really loved having this rewatch opportunity because that's where things became even clearer for me. And I was like, wow, it's the nuances that he included in here that makes it really special.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

It really is. And you know, you talk about just this experience that you had being too close for comfort and just like getting to experience the full intensity of this sound. If there is a single disappointment that I have with this movie, it's only in the fact that my schedule did not work out to fully appreciate it by seeing it in theaters. Magical experience, seeing it with the people. Don't get me wrong. If I couldn't see this movie in theaters, I am so glad that I got to share this with the community, especially because there are so many different perspectives and just pure excitement the whole time. But there were moments in this movie that felt like a punch to my chest. And a lot of a lot of it really was in ways that I wasn't ready for. And there were other moments where I just knew, Binks, I'm telling you, if I was in a theater and I could hear this with a theater experience, I know I would have chills because there's a lot of power in this movie. And that's honestly what surprised me the most. I wasn't expecting to be hit so hard emotionally between the comedy, the cultural layers, the way it played with horror elements, it all caught me off guard. I just like I know I heard this movie was fantastic, but I still wasn't ready. No one can prepare you for the experience of this movie.

SPEAKER_04 14:27

Yeah, I think it is definitely a movie you want to catch in theaters for sure. So if it does come around, if if Chris, if if it comes around for anyone that didn't catch it in theaters, if they end up replaying this in theaters, definitely grab a ticket, go experience it in theaters because it's definitely worth it to go see it in theaters. And I think, you know, outside of the fact that, you know, my biggest surprise and disappointment as a whole is anyone that I talked to that didn't think that this movie was awesome, because I was like, are you fucking kidding me right now? Let's dive into that because you're wrong. And but aside from that, honestly, aside from that, I think honestly, it was really the deeply rich story of the blues, the black American culture in Jim Crow era, Mississippi, that really took me by surprise because I didn't really get that from the synopsis. And I don't remember getting that from the trailer because I did look, I did watch the trailer several times going into this movie, right? And I just wasn't getting that. But the performances, too, blown away by the performances, you sort of expect strong performances from Michael B. Jordan, but Miles Caton, Jack O'Connell, both very strong in their own rights. And obviously not going to give any spoilers away because each of these two individuals had some standout moments that really elevated this movie for me. Being so you were saying like this is like a hard thing to find disappointment. I do think maybe it took a little bit long to get from like this crime drama feel to the horror genre, but that's being so critical because I really loved the story so much that it really didn't matter all that much at the end of the day. I can see some viewers not enjoying that aspect as much if they were going into it like expecting this full-blown horror movie, or if you're expecting something different, right? Maybe that could be something that throws people off. But no, man, it's really hard to find a disappointment in this movie.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Gosh, the genre thing is such a good point. And this is really what did it for me. I had a discussion about this actually at work where I was talking about the fact that we're gonna talk about this movie, and somebody said, Well, it's not a horror movie. I was like, Well, yeah, it's it's a horror movie. And they went, Well, honestly, they said for me, it's it's a spiritual movie. And I was like, Wow, that's I mean, I like that. That's kind of an interesting take on it. But yeah, there's this moment where you know, we have this transition, and my wife even said, like, I don't, I don't want things to change. I don't want things to get bad. I want to keep going just into the story because it's so well delivered. But it's able, I think, to dance between genres with a lot of finesse and and nail each of the genres. So like as you're in one of them, you're thinking, sure, a crime drama, this is great. I want more of this. I want to watch an entire movie just about the story. When you kind of switch things up and head into horror, you're thinking, oh, this is this is solid. But then there are those spiritual moments where you're thinking, wow, like this is kind of a mind-blowing experience. But every one of them is blended into the other correctly. And and I mean, it's just masterful the way they're able to do that. And that really had no expectation of.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah. Mac, that is such a great point to make. And its ability to dance between genres is honestly what I think lends itself to such a great strong point when it comes to the impact of just the fear in this movie. Listen, I don't find this movie traditionally scary. It doesn't go for jump scares or even a lot of shock tactics. I think a lot of what we get ends up being very plain on screen in terms of what you see is what you get. But instead of that, it's visceral. And being able to see what's coming makes it even more tragic because it makes you feel the weight of violence. It makes you feel how raw the wounds are for every character in this movie. It makes you feel the ache of loss. And the horror here isn't just like in being startled. This isn't the conjuring where we get jump scares galore. This movie's horror, this movie's fear, is in how deeply it hurts to watch people suffer. And I think that lends itself with its own kind of fear. Honestly, represent a lot of fear that we face historically in this country.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

It's a good point because Yeah, it is a good point because definitely it's interesting that people say, like, oh, this isn't a horror movie, it's spiritual. I can see that side of it. I would say, like, obviously, for one specific aspect, this is definitely a horror movie. But you're right, Chris, it's not scaring you in the traditional way. It won't be scary for hardcore horror fans. It leans more into mood and atmosphere than it does into jump scares and scare task and scare tactics. And honestly, you're right. There's like a lot of emotional depth to this. There's a lot of suffering, and it's not just suffering from like actual wounds. It's like there is a lot of suffering just from the the setting that we're in in this time period, right? Where the film doesn't really fully commit to that full-blown horror that you might be used to. It does successfully build tension and dread through its like segregated South setting, the oppression, also these characters and the history and the relationships that they really dive into that you can really feel the emotional depth of this film.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. That's exactly where the fear stems from. And I think that on a superficial level, a lot of the characters and some like key characteristics and features can be definitely intimidating and uneasy. I think the production team knocked it out of the park here in so many different ways. Like the lighting of certain shots makes it very intimidating, scary, a little hard to look at. But I love that we can see both sides of the spectrum here when it comes to this kind of horror film, because it's both the plot and the setting and then and the circumstances that our characters find themselves in, but then also the actual horror tropes that are explored here, too, that you wouldn't expect.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

I think I think you've you've all really nailed it that this is not going to be a traditional scary kind of film for most of our viewers, but there are some who are going to potentially, you know, get some get some frights from watching this. It's not all about jump scares, it's not all about that, right? Like it's about the thinking that it makes you do. But I think it is effective at actually making you care about characters. And a lot of films don't have that effect that, you know, most of us are are rooting for the characters to to get got, right? That's you know, when you're watching horror films, a lot of the times you can't wait. I think this is one of those where you're kind of like, please not this person, please not that person. Actually, none of them. Please just uh leave these people alone because they're because I like them, right? And I think that's really effective for us to give a crap about the characters and what happens to them.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

And that's super important to any movie, but I think the level to which it executes here is so significant. Because I'm just thinking about the way this movie tells its story, and there is a key aspect here that you listener may already know about this movie. We're kind of dancing around it on the off chance that someone is listening to the spoiler free section and has not been confronted with how this movie ties into horror. But the way that this movie blends classic horror lore with music with culture is honestly unlike. Like anything I have seen. At least it does so to a degree that feels super distinct. It's not just clever, but it's so intentional and it feels alive. There is a moment where my jaw dropped and I was like basically on the verge of getting goosebumps, and I was just like so caught up in the magic of this moment. And it does this while also still wielding mythology that feels fresh without losing the weight of history and being able to carve out a lane all of its own. Like I cannot overstate how special that is to be able to execute.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

There's just so much, I think, that this movie does that that allows it to separate itself and make it its own thing and feel original. There's also like a lot of influence that you can really see. Like there, there's a lot going on. It's kind of a mixed bag. I think Sinners lands in this very interesting space where it kind of blends these familiar horror like monster tropes with this bold new spin. You said it, it's rooted in culture, in history, in music. I'm finding it like really hard, like you're saying, we're dancing around the subject to talk about this without spoilers right now, even though a lot of people probably maybe do know what this movie is all about by now, but to your point, just in case, right? But it's like it's that familiar monster setting, but in 1930s, Mississippi and the Delta, which is an interesting backdrop that we haven't really seen before. It's the role of music that feels like something we haven't really explored heavily either. And I think between all of this, it does feel original in that regard, but you can definitely feel the familiarity in these monsters, so to speak, and between the lore that we get in this movie, I think it feels influenced by some very specific other movies.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

And other literature work as well. I know that Kugler has talked about one specific Stephen King book that is like the biggest influence on this film specifically. And I think as you see it and things start to reveal itself, it's very apparent. But in general, I couldn't agree more. I think that exploring the setting through the lens of a particular horror trope that we keep dancing around and not saying, But you know, like I think it's important that we keep it that way because I was one of those people that had no friggin' clue. So if you haven't seen it, it's good that we're doing this, right? But to use the trope that he used in a way that explores an allegory that it has never really quite done before is bold. I think, especially to do that now in the climate that we're in. I think it's very, very intentional. He's also spoken about how this is very connected to his experience and his family. So I think it's also obviously a very personal piece and it it shows. And I always love that when these directors take their chances to do original work outside of the franchises that they've been working on, you know, like Kugler is probably, at least for me, most well known for Black Panther and Creed, of course. But I think just to see what he's capable of again on his own, I've never seen his other original work, and I most certainly will now because it's it's so unique. It's never been done before for me at least. I've never seen something like this, and clearly a lot of people feel the same way.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

It's so interesting to me that this movie is so heavily tied to music, because just like a lot of music, there's always going to be inspiration from the past. And I think it's a really about how you blend that and make it into your own song, if you will. So like it makes me think I would love a movie based around Bomba or Salsa or something. I think that would be phenomenal because the the same kind of history is there with this mixture, this mashup, this kind of forced need of expression. And I think, you know, Ryan Kugler has talked about it before, like where inspirations might come from, where comparisons could come from as well. But I think when you're watching this, you're not feeling that. You're feeling like it has its own heartbeat, it's got its own rhythm, and you know, sure, I can I can feel this inspiration from this type of movie, this filmmaker, this genre, whatever it is. But altogether, somehow, I have not seen this film ever before.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

You know, it's interesting that you mentioned the heartbeat of it all, and I feel like maybe just outside looking in, maybe I'm just like in a super vulnerable place right now where I'm feeling so emotional about this movie. But man, the heartbeat in the through line of this movie just honestly carries through up until the very last second because the ending of this thing floored me. Absolutely floored me. It is devastating, it's emotional. But I think the great thing about it is it ties everything together in a way that feels incredibly earned. There's nothing about the ending of this movie that left me unsatisfied, for sure unhappy. I wished for happier outcomes for many parties involved, but it felt earned. And it's the kind of movie that has an ending that sticks in your chest. Like you don't want to just watch it, you carry it with you. And man, I'm gonna be honest with you, I got emotional several moments throughout this whole movie, but at the end, I was for sure crying. I don't know that I admitted that and then during the watch party, so sorry, but yeah, I was I was definitely do that.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Man, it is a bittersweet ending, you know. It's it also is that feeling of like when you finish something really good, whether it's cake or you know, a movie and you really enjoy it and you don't want it to end, and then now it's ending and there's nothing more. But then there's something more, you know. They they really deliver on the ending here. And the way it felt for me was just absolutely fulfilling when we get to that, because I'm feeling a certain way, kind of like you in that moment where I'm like, I'm I'm I'm happy with how this ended, I'm also sad that it's ended, I'm also sad about what happened to some folks, and then they take it up a notch. And so you make it into I don't even know if is it post-credits? I don't even know how to describe it, but it's the actual final scene of this film, and you're and to me that was just like that's it. It's iced, this cake is ready to go, it's got everything it needs. I am satisfied.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Yeah, it was perfect for sure. I mean, it there's just so much to admire with the ending. I think it's it's both haunting, it's hopeful, it's weaving together sacrifice, legacy, artistic freedom, cultural resistance. Like you've got so much going on in this ending. And to your point, Mac, you can't even begin to tell you how much I loved that. I you can call it mid-credit scene, post-credit scene, whatever you want to call it. Like it's arguably one of, if not the best part of the whole movie for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Absolutely. And it's almost a shame that it is a little bit after the credits because there were so many people that had walked out of the theater and missed that scene.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

It's a shame.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And folks, you can't you've gotta stick through it, you gotta see it. It's I agree, probably the best part of this movie because it is just like a culmination of everything that you've just seen. It hits right at the heart. It's so powerful. And it actually like really resonated with me around the second time that I watched it because I think that's where the like emotional impact had hit me the most. Like Chris, you were saying that you were crying. I think that that's kind of where I really got like emotional this second time around. Maybe because I could hear everything a lot clearer and I was just like in the solitude and the safe space of my home as well, where I could like really unleash and be vulnerable. But it was an incredible like conclusion and I guess like a sense of closure and conclusion that you could hope for for the characters. Granted, the circumstances that they find themselves in not always the best, sure, but I think it's just heartbreaking. And with the setting and what we've seen so far in the film, like there's nothing much more than you can expect with something like that.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Man, I'm still just thinking about how emotional I felt, and it's just almost like a dam that was breaking the entire movie. I kept thinking, like, oh man, this is so sad. And then all of a sudden at the ending, I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't take this anymore. My heart, it's it's just absolutely ripped in shreds, and then also mended back together. Because, yes, being said, the sentiment that you're describing, it's so special at the end of this movie, and I can't wait to see how all of that sentiment really just wraps itself into our ratings. Now, before we actually score this film, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_04 30:36

It's really interesting because the gore in this movie is rather selective, which is strange given the type of movie that it is, or at least when you figure out what type of movie this is, because it it's really interesting. Ryan Kugler often cuts away from the most violent moments, letting like almost the imagination do some of the work rather than showing everything explicitly, right? You get some amazing aftermath shots that look incredible, and it finds itself definitely being bloody enough to remind you that it is horror, but it's far more interested in the atmosphere, in the music, and the metaphor than shocking gore. So I think it lands itself somewhere in this medium level of gore.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Well, medium it is, but how about that animal report?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Well, sadly, uh snake does take it right in the neck.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

So for all you parcel tongues.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

For all you parcel tongues out there, not so great. Looks like you're sinning.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah. But you know what? Honestly, you're the testament back to the original Friday the 13th. Except I don't think this film specifically actually killed a real snake. 80s were a wild time, man. All right, well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Sinners from 2025. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_05 31:53

I'll kick things off by saying that this is a masterful example of immersive filmmaking. It is technically so close to perfect. I mean, honestly, it's as perfect as it can be. Every detail feels incredibly well thought out and well executed. It's just so obvious how much work had to go into this and how much research they had to do. There's just this feeling of realness to this movie. The cinematography, oh my gosh, simply breathtaking. It's moody, it's got a texture to it, it's visceral, as you mentioned, Chris, and it's just emotional. It's not just a horror film, but honestly a cinematic experience rooted in the very soul of humanity. And that to me makes it an absolute slash.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Man, I can't agree more, right? Ryan Kugler's Sinners, I think it's less of a straightforward horror flick and more of this southern gothic blues like symphony humming with history, soul, dread. Right away, I was blown away. You know, after watching this, the biggest feeling that I had was like it was so like a mix of emotions. It was like this mix of crossroads, meets from dust till dawn. I love this film. It's set in 1930s Jim Crow, Mississippi. And I know I've mentioned that a lot now, but it's really different and interesting for a horror movie setting. It's certainly different for horror, right? It's it's very different. The film trades gothic castles for smoky juke joints and church pews. I think the cultural backbone of the story is it's rich, and music isn't just atmosphere in this movie, it's like absolute power, it's memory, it's resistance, and that layer of depth makes the film feel like something hauntingly new and fresh. And on the horror side, Sinners leans more on the mood than the mayhem, even though there is a ton of mayhem in this movie. And I think, as I said, the gore is selective rather than splattered, but the atmosphere is oppressive and it's charged, and it's got moments of menace and this tension that never really lets go. And man, some of the lore surrounding this movie might not be the most terrifying, but the way it's filtered through themes of cultural survival and exploitation makes it resonate far beyond cheap scares, like truly. And I think overall, this is a film that really bleeds history as much as it bleeds horror, and it really blends this old blues folk tale of sorts, right, with accurate historical and cultural representation of black American culture as well as the Choctaw people, the Chinese immigrants from this era. And I think this is a blood-soaked blues ballad that knows how to sink its teeth and strike a chord. And I gotta say, I ain't no haint and I ain't no hater, but this one is an absolute slash.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Absolutely, absolutely. Listen, this is going to be the last time that I will ever judge a film off of a single scene, that's for sure, because like I said, I saw one shot of Michael B. Jordan holding a machine gun, and I said, it's diehard, I think. I don't know. I I didn't think that it was just gonna be my kind of film. I really didn't. And now, knowing the context of that scene in particular, I can't even begin to tell you how most certainly this is my kind of film. I had zero clue what it was going to be about. And it ended up having all of these things that I love on a superficial level, but also being a really incredible, honestly, a think piece on true American history, on the predatory nature of the Jim Crow era, specifically against black people and marginalized communities, both on the physical and cultural level. I think it explores a lot of these like heavier themes that we talk about in history, that we talk about in, you know, amongst family, amongst friends, amongst our climate today, but then also through horror. And that's the part that I really didn't anticipate. I thought, well, if it's gonna be horror, maybe it's just the gore of it all. But they really do an intentional work to kind of thread in horror tropes seamlessly. Again, all of the things that I love in particular. So everything was so carefully constructed and considered, and all these emotions just weld up. And to even see it on a second time and feel even more enamored with this film says a lot. You're gonna feel heartbroken, unsafe, you're gonna find it brutal. But then you're also gonna find it incredibly entertaining, and there's these like moments of laughter and this sense of community and just pure joy that you can't help but want to like be there and and dance and feel the music firsthand. It's really everything in one, but most importantly, it is most definitely a slash.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Listen, we have all sang this movie's praises and it's not gonna stop here, but I'll keep it brief. This movie is powerful, this movie is evocative, and it's the way that it reimagines classic horror that really makes it unforgettable. This movie doesn't just entertain right, it really digs in and then it lingers, it makes itself a nest in your heart and refuses to leave because it balances this like raw pain, but also with unexpected laughter, and it uses both history and again its own mythology to really tell a story that feels both timeless and also impossibly urgent and really relevant. It's the kind of movie that reminds me why I love horror, right? Because it uses the genre to wrestle with history, it uses the genre to wrestle with culture, the human condition, all while delivering absolutely unforgettable horror content and horror scenes. This is the absolute epitome of a slash, and I'm right there with you, Sean, from a text that you sent me earlier this year. This is the best fucking horror movie of the year. I know that we got some other shit coming out this year. I will be shocked if anything unseats it. And with that, Sinners from 2025 has earned a universal slash. Now, we have been incredibly spoiler avoidant in this entire first section of the episode, and we're about to get into the spoilers momentarily. So you can watch this movie available streaming at home. Go ahead, pop it on if you haven't seen it yet. Then join us in the spoiler zone so we can really dig our teeth into this. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

This episode of Hacker Slash is sponsored by Pints of the Thirsty Dead. The only shitty dive bar that the Hacker Slash crew trusts to consistently serve up some of the deadliest drinks alive. It's the only watering hole where the blues are live, the deals are deadly, and the last call just might be your last. Feeling parched? Try our signature cocktail, The Sour Soul. Aged in barrels straight from the devil's cellar. Or if you're brave enough, down a shot of our Freddy's firewater. It'll burn you alive in your dreams and your liver in reality. Not a liquor fan, no worries. We've got Crystal Lake Lager on tap. One sip and you'll be drowning in nostalgia. Entertainment? Every night our house band is fronted by the ghost of Robert Johnson. But if you stick around till midnight, you might just catch Michael Myers on the tambourine. He's got a killer rhythm. And remember, gambling's encouraged. Just don't bet your soul unless you're ready to play a high-stakes hand with Pinhead. So come on down to the pint of the thirsty dead. Where the blues are always playing, the house always wins. And the only thing scarier than the hangover is the company you'll keep.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

Now we have a lot to dig into into this movie, but let's go ahead and start with those kills.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Man, keeping track of this body count was a wild ride for sure, because not only did we have a ton of deaths, but a lot of these kills were off-screen and only being mentioned or having the aftermath shown. And then, of course, you have the added layer and the fact that most of these fuckers were revived as fucking vampires afterwards and then eventually fucking killed again. So it leaves us with a very, very healthy death toll of 125 kills. And I gotta know which of these kills did you sink your teeth into?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

There's a lot of kills, so maybe we don't have the same one. And the reason that this is my favorite kill is actually because I find it to be maybe one of the most heartbreaking ones, and that's Stax Death, to be honest. I found like Stack's death initially, right? Like human stack to be shocking because I was not expecting Mary to be a vampire. I full on thought she escaped. I full on thought they really were doing the nookie. I thought, go girl, you unleashed. You're out in the prowl.

SPEAKER_04 41:59

You really did it all for the nookie on that one.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

You really did it all for the nookie.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

I cannot wait for the end of year where we get to really stack up the worst nookie sacrifices. Because if correct me if I'm wrong, Nosferatsu technically was this year's episode. So there's a lot happening, folks. There is a lot happening in terms of the gosh. I know it really was this year.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Oh no. Wow, there really was a lot for the neck.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

But you know what? Let's talk about Mary for a moment. Because there isn't a single like death in this movie that I was happy about, at least for the vast majority of this movie. But when we looked at her instance and like going out there, the second she turned around after like honestly pulling a badass move of defending herself and just saying, I'm gonna get back inside now, we had a Brightburn moment where Remick is, you know, levitating, and I was like, Well shit, there she goes. And then immediately she has to ask to be let back in. And this is where I'm talking about like this movie really feels like it's there in plain sight that now she has been she's been converted to a vampire. And it was just absolutely wild to see the intensity here and to also see the vulnerability between Stack and what he was exposing with Mary in this moment, giving into a moment of passion, mixing violence with sex and just this euphoric pleasure. But for her to spit in his mouth, and then we see her wound, I'm like, this is just a little disrespectful. I mean, I get it, like you're into what you're into, but man, what a sad moment to see our boy go. And this is honestly what a great moment for Michael B. Jordan to be able to do one fucking hell of a job playing two very distinct characters and also still be able to live in his own movie. Incredible.

SPEAKER_05 43:53

Crazy. I'm gonna pick a sacrifice death as well, and it's gonna be Grace. Because what a way to. It's a good one. Right? The fact that she's still stabbing while on fire.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 44:06

It just shows that determination. And that I had to respect. I had to call that out.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah. Honestly, another one of those that I wasn't happy about happening, especially because we get to this moment where she they're trying to hold her back and they're like, we're not ready for this nonsense. And she's like, fuck it, no, let's go. Let's throw hands. I bet you she was an Aries.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Very much Aries coded.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

It was such a good kill because one, it's kind of a two-for-one special, but how tragic, how heartbreaking, but also how fucking badass was it that Grace took her man out while being burned alive, just to make that point, right? Like, fuck that. We're going down together. Like, she maybe she couldn't, you know, you never know, man. Like, it was just so badass. But yeah, just thinking about all of the kills in this movie, I also just want to throw out there that Bert's kill was the first time that we got introduced to the carnage of Remick and how these vampire attacks were gonna go down. And it was fucking brutal. You're not just getting your average vampire attack, you're not getting these nice little two little poke holes in the side of the neck where they're drinking your blood and draining you dry. This is chunks of flesh taken out, and it is absolutely vicious.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yes, but can we also just acknowledge for a moment that when we get reintroduced to Remic sitting in the nursery, I mean, I need to go back and watch it, but I didn't clock a baby in that crib. It's giving the baby died, it's giving this is the year where we're seeing babies not really existing in these movies for a very long time, and it was super fucking like ah it's again. I want to go back, want to confirm it, but that was a moment where I was like, oh my god, he's really here. We know this other guy got turned eaten, bitten, etc. But where the fuck is the child that belongs in that crib?

SPEAKER_04 46:04

That's wild.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Consumed. Do we have a baby vampire?

SPEAKER_04 46:08

Just a touch of consumption or Renezme, popping that baby like a cherry tomato, man, just eating it in whole, just one bite, you know?

SPEAKER_01 46:16

But but listen, no, but that scene in particular, that's what I was saying when we were talking about like if this movie was scary or not. The lighting of that scene in particular, when it reveals him sitting in the corner of that room, terrifying. But I was a little too caught up in the fact that Jack O'Connell was in this movie because I also didn't know he was in this movie, obviously, and I almost screamed in the theater because I haven't seen that man since skins, but that's neither here nor there. He just was incredible, incredible, intimidating, down to his very last moments, too, because that was giving also like a little bit of a Nosferatu essence of just like falling apart, diminishing, holding on until the very end. This like grand evil, it was very intense and also like beautiful in the craziest way to say that, right? The lighting, everything, the cinematography of that scene in particular was Chef's Kiss.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Talking about how the words of these men were used to oppress his people, and then still they bring him comfort. It was a lot emotionally in the end of that movie. But to see the real from the guitar caked into him right into his face. Yeah, it was looking honestly like it could be the inspiration for a final destination kill in the future set in the past.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Maybe definitely.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Maybe. But another element here, and I was just thinking about this. When you go through the kills in this movie, I want to just throw it back to the patron who was unintentionally thrown outside, presumed to have been dead, just waiting to turn. Turns out was actually fine, and then turned.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

R.I.P. buddy.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Yeah. Dude, really fucking sucks for you in particular. You were just knocked out. Maybe things might not have escalated quite as intensely because I feel like this is also a catalyst for a lot of other moments that came after it.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Yeah. The physical violence that he endured prior, that gash across his face was gnarly. Was absolutely gnarly. Another kill that we can't go without bringing up is Annie. That was another one that was catastrophic. Oh. Catastrophic.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

It was when I talk about the devastation in this movie, I'm largely talking about Annie. I wasn't ready. Ah, and then to see Smoke's reaction, and then oh okay. Also, let's just acknowledge this, right? Annie goes down, he finishes her off because we're not gonna let her become one of them. Right. But then this is the moment where they feel like they want to just run away. Okay, because smoke was intense enough to finish Annie. Now you want to retreat? Bro, come on.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

Well, we knew it was gonna happen as soon as she said you gotta do this and don't you know what I mean? Like she did her own premonition there, like you kind of cemented that in stone for yourself, you know, which is unfortunate but true. I mean, Delta Slim also, I think, man, we gotta give it up for Delta Slim. One, you know, I know we're not a character yet. What a great character in this movie, but also, man, just the fact that he decided to take one for the team, cut his forearm with that broken bottle, allow himself to be eaten alive by multiple vampires to save some of his friends. Like, what a homie. You know what I mean? That's a real one right there.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

It sure was.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Yeah. And again, I don't want to keep making the Twilight comparisons, but this was a moment where I get a significant amount of lore in the Twilight movies was dating back to the indigenous folks in this tribe and the wife that sacrificed herself so that you know the husband could defeat the cold one. But this is this done right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I I say this because like these are things that you might recognize in other forms of vampire media, but this was done with such emotion and such power. And that's where I was like, ah, fuck, okay. Like, I I don't want it to happen this way. Like, I see why it's happening this way, but God, I just wish he could make it out of here because these people have been through enough.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Speaking of that, I feel like we can go on forever for everyone else that has had just about enough. They've gone through way too much. Do we want to also just, you know, for a grand finale, bring up smoke's downfall? Because if we want to say Delta Slim really just held on for dear life, then we also have to acknowledge smoke. Quite literally guns blazing. Okay. Because that obviously was the shot that I saw, did not realize the context of. And I mean, considering that a veteran really just was going to not quit protect his, you know, his home, essentially, like his, in a way, even post-mortem, protecting his people, his community, right? That was very intense and heartbreaking as well, because right at the very end, holding on for that last moment. And I think also it was giving a little like Quentin Tarantino-esque, right? To an extent. I I which I acknowledge all here for, love it. But that with the hallucination of seeing Annie too was just it was so painful. It was so painful. It was a tough one for sure.

SPEAKER_04 51:27

He's a man of his word, though. We said he was he said you step foot on this land, I'm gonna take you down, and he took him down.

SPEAKER_05 51:33

You know, that was a gladiator ending, and to me, a gladiator ending is epic. But when he saw her in that moment, I was like, oh, this is legendary, this entire film now.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Man, I gotta say, obviously, we can continue to talk about all of the great moments because a lot of these kills were in fact great moments, but there are so many great things about this movie, and we can talk about the cinematography, we can talk about the performances, we can talk about the set design, right? But and listen, I can talk about the writing all day because the way that they integrated this story and they brought all of this crazy stuff together that you wouldn't think would make this really incredible horror film, but it really, it really just did. The way they integrated, you know, this this blues story, like it really, really cool. One, if you don't know who Robert Johnson is, right? He is like an actual blues artist from the Delta, right, from this era, and there is that crossroads story that you all have probably heard, and this is like stemming from Robert Johnson, right, and selling his soul to the devil for musical genius. And you've got this, you know, kind of this aspect of this story, obviously not in the same sense as selling your soul to the devil, but you've got pieces of that folklore, right, uh around an actual blues artist, and then you've got this like integration of the historical culture of this era, and you've got this story of vampires, and it's just like stuff that you just wouldn't think would go together, and it just really, really does, and so you can really talk about how great the writing is and whatever it is that brought all that together, whatever you want to highlight. But I do want to highlight one very specific thing. I gotta give it up for the visual effects team in this movie because specifically in that early scene where Smoke and Stack are passing the cigarette between each other after taking drags, because they did this the hard fucking way, and they synced the video perfectly, making sure that Michael's hands were in the exact right place to hand the cigarette back and forth. It was just so much dedication. Just think of how much like perfection and time-consuming dedication went into just making what seems like a really average scene. Man, just passing a cigarette around, but how much work went into that?

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah, can we also just acknowledge early on my impression of Michael B. Jordan and holy shit, this man has so much chemistry with himself, even as a corpse. It's outrageous. I don't know what this man is doing, but we need more of it. Every single time he interacted with himself as a twin, I'm like, they're really flexing on Lindsay Lohan from the parent trap era, you know? Let's get together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

100%.

SPEAKER_05 54:38

There is this twin dynamic though that I also want to bring up in the cinematography, and that's this whole dual format thing we got going on. It is amazing because there are moments when you feel a sense of grandeur, but they are also able equally to give you intimacy and emotion by splitting this up. And when we have those transitions between the two, it's crazy. It is like buttery smooth. I don't know how they did that and how they managed it, what kind of editing has to go into that. But a lot of times I feel like you see it either black bars at the top or the sides of the screen, and all of a sudden in either movie's ending or we're going into an epic scene. You don't even think about it here. You just suddenly feel like you're outside. Not like you're looking at the outside, but that you are outside. But you didn't think about it, it just happened. It's so natural feeling. I I just want all the props to go to that.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

I want to second that because shout out to female DPs. They are knocking it out of the park this year, both in this film, in television. It's just incredible. And I'm a thousand percent here for it because also you're carrying a heavy ass IMAX camera. It is sharp. I've seen videos of behind the scenes of them filming this, and just like the chemistry, like this synchronicity that she has with Kugler and in capturing everything just right, the dance scenes, everything was like with such precision. And also, with that being said, like those aspect ratio shifts, the moment that it goes from, you know, obviously like a widescreen, I'm I don't know the numbers of it, so forgive me, but like it goes from like this widescreen, right, to the full picture, full screen. I feel like my eyes have been shot open once those doors to the juke joint have been opened up to greet these vampires. Boy oh boy, I was shook. And there's other slight moments of it too, where they change those aspect ratios, but I think everything is done so intentionally and beautifully that on the one hand, I was so glad that I saw this in theaters because that was not missed. I love that I could see it on the big screen. It was beautiful. Sadly, it was like the little moments of sound design that I couldn't quite get just right until I watched it the second time. Like the whispers that seemed a little bit unclear. I actually did not hear the sounds that were going on when Dalton Semmo was telling the story in the car. I didn't hear that actually when I watched it in theaters. So when I heard it this time around, like on my TV, I was like, oh, that is real dark. But it that intentionality is the little details that I was talking about earlier that it makes it just fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

Yeah, okay. See, this is one of those moments where I was watching this movie thinking, like, fuck, I wish I heard this in a theater. I really wish I had. And what's even more impressive is that moment with Delta Slim was improvised by the actor who plays him. Like that wasn't a planned thing. That is absolutely incredible. Like to be like the whole story? Or just like the humming and you know, really using that to kind of like channel the blues and just like really evoking a sense of like pain. It was honestly like learning that afterwards, I'm like, how the fuck is this immensely powerful moment just elevated that much even by by just like this key decision in the moment, and that's the beauty of filmmaking, that's the beauty of collaborative storytelling and what professionals really bring to the occasion. But man, the sound for me is the heartbeat of this movie because it evolves, it breathes, it becomes the backbone of the story, like in moments here with Delta Slim. But also when you pair that with performances that carry immense weight, you have a film where you can feel the intentionality in every technical choice between sound, between lighting, and even between effects. And I think what's really important to really dig into here is how that sound translates to music. Because I wasn't expecting there to be so much music in this movie. I don't know why I didn't hear a lick of this going into it, but there's this scene where Sammy starts to sing at the Juke and all of a sudden we have a musical performance that carries us through time. It's channeling his people, both past, present, and future. It's layered with history, it's layered with culture, with raw emotion. That scene alone is honestly living rent-free in my head as one of the best horror movie scenes I've ever seen, and it has nothing to do with horror in that moment because it it honestly carries it carries the whole movie. It's truly one of the best I've seen. And that was a moment where I was like, I feel like I'm really close to crying right now with just how beautiful this is.

SPEAKER_04 59:46

Man, it's so cool. Can I just tell you two things I also really like about the music now that you're like talking about your your love of the music in this movie, your love of the scene with the music in this movie? But like most of the musical performances were recorded live on set with the actors performing alongside blues musicians, which is like truly incredible, right? And I thought what was really also really, really interesting, there was this idea for the film to have this edgier contrast with the score or the soundtrack, and Ryan Kugler had Metallica in mind, thinking of their song one from the Injustice for All album, and how it starts off with this really easy to listen to solo and then goes like literally batshit nuts. And Lars, the drummer for Metallica, is actually credited as one of the drummers in the movie's scoring orchestras, which is like there's so many cool facts about this movie, it's truly, truly incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

Holy shit, and there's gonna be so much to unpack with this. And again, folks, we're gonna get into even some of this and the B sides. There are so many things that you could easily miss on a first watch. There's also things you're gonna miss on a second and a third watch, and then there are some things that only the deeply researched and deeply knowledgeable folks like Sean can really bring to the table.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:04

What I what I love about the scene, the music, all of it is it just reminds me of this this Maya Angelou quote, which was I come as one, but I stand as 10,000 and the strength that it gives you, right, to walk into a room knowing that you come with everything with your ancestors. Like they're with you, but all the work they put into life brought you to this point.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:28

And when we get to a scene that like shows that visually, it is intense. We s we slip through time, we feel the spider web that a single person creates all of those ripples, and it's absolutely just the most intense moment of the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

See, this right there, Mac, is what defines exceptional storytelling. Just an episode or two ago, I was over here talking about how sometimes some of these things that we're seeing are reminiscent of Star Wars, and I am all the Sith, I am all the Jedi. It's not a dissimilar approach here. Technically, it is thinking about those who came before you, and you are the culmination of that. But this movie does it in a way that has impact and has intention, and it's just beautiful execution through and through. And this is how you get these moments where we can talk about originality in films, and this film is original. This is not like a dig at this at all. But when you have elements of film, we're like, oh, we've seen it before, we've seen it before, it's not always about who does it first. Sometimes it really is about who does it best. And in this case, Ryan Kugler did a lot of things first and a lot of things best.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

100%. 100%. There's so many great parts in this movie, so many great scenes in this movie. I know we've already like touched on it, and a lot of people, like a lot of us, and I'm sure a lot of people really loved, but to get that mid-credit scene, right? That scene right after the credits or whatever, right after they roll, to get that like almost full circle moment, right? One, it's like a great way to wrap the story. It's a great way to like showcase, like obviously, we see at the end that you know, Sammy is going back, and it's like the very beginning, Sammy walking into the church, you know what I mean, and he's all fucked up and bloodied, and he's got just the neck of the guitar. We're like, where is this story going? And to know how we get to the end, and then we finally get to see like the resolution of that specific scene, you know, his dad telling to put the guitar down, but then to like go even further and to get that final moment of the film and really come even more full circle, and the fact that he chose music, even though he went through all of that shit, he carried that music with him and brought that soul with him. And to get fucking buddy guy to actually fucking play Sammy Older was absolutely fucking brilliant to get that right, and listen, it's not even that Miles Caton couldn't do performances because he sang all of his own performances, right? So he like truly an incredible actor, but also to get him to get to get the honor of having Buddy Guy, one of the like final remaining like blues legends that's alive, right, to do this, right? I mean, just so so incredible. And then that's where you get the heavy like crossroads vibe of like him sitting at the bar and the you know, and and the the vampires are walking back in, and it's just such a cool moment. I mean, I just gotta give it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

Like one of the best scenes in the movie, and you have to wait till literally the last second to get which is why it's such a shame that people might have missed it, because even that small moment, like I said, it's it feels like it culminates the entire story down to when he's saying that it might have been the best mo day of his life. And then we see the montage of Stack talking about how it was the last day that he saw the sun, that he saw his brother, like this sense of freedom that is really like talked about throughout the film without really being like a focal point, I guess. Like it's talked about, we see it, we feel it most importantly, but it's not like shoved down our throats, you know. We see it in the sentiments and like the the way that there is so much joy in being a community and how they are really preserving their culture and fighting for their culture while also fighting for their lives at that juke train, right? It's incredible and layered, but I think just that familial conversation, you know, when you see an old friend, you see an old family member, it's been so long. But at the same time, you can't help but also, of course, the trauma that comes with that too. It's very layered and it's such a beautiful moment.

unknown 1:05:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

There's just so much to unpack here, especially I'm gonna drop some links in the show notes, folks, for you all to reference as you're listening to this at home. But there's even more of a personal reason why Buddy Guy specifically wanted to do this, and it's purely because he wanted to continue the legacy and the story of blue of the blues and blues music and and these artists. But the other part of this, do you all clock the date that that is happening on? I just saw, I thought it was was it 1992, 1993? October 16th, 1992. It's the same day that the black horror film Candyman was released.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:36

Oh snap. No, nice and love that wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

Oh, well, that's layered. That's a lot. Listen, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

This movie is like a 30-layer dip. And we love it. Every fucking second of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

I love every single layer. It's incredible. I'm telling you everything. He didn't miss a single thing. He's thinking of every single detail, every moment, every conversation. Folks, you really also just have to watch the interviews where Kugler's just like talking about this film, but it's also fascinating too because, as one would imagine, he also is in particular settings where he can't quite fully talk about this movie in the way that he probably would want to because of good old studios. And that is also layered in and of itself. So I think that there's so much to chew on with this. It's and it really is hard to find a favorite scene for real. I think that there's a couple moments that stand out for me where, of course, these themes are explored in more like obvious ways or in more detailed ways. I think that in general, honestly, Remick is a fascinating character. And I if I had to pick a favorite scene right now, it may be his introduction. Because right off the bat, it's kind of like um the music kind of sets the tone of this like gothic tale. We get a little bit of this, uh obviously like this Dracula type vibe, right? And the introduction to vampirism that is already a kind of trope that inherently symbolizes like the sense of colonization and like, you know, this allure, this glamour, all of these themes that definitely get explored subtly in its own way throughout the film. But he's so fascinating as a character, too, because he himself is Irish and he's, you know, from a marginalized community that has been a victim of colonization and culturally racial, also. So I think like the setting in which it's like, okay, we've got vampires. Holy shit, wasn't ready for that. We've got the gothic tale, the lighting, it's so ominous. But then as it unfolds and you get to know him a little bit better, it's almost like, wait a minute, it's a it's kind of like the devil you know or the devil you don't, you know, and and it's very fascinating how that gets unfolded.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:08

For sure. How hypnotic was that scene where Remick is literally singing the Rocky Road to Dublin? You know what I mean? Like skipping around, doing the whole little shuffle, whatever, and just that was such like a really hypnotic scene, and what a cool moment in the film.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:26

Okay, I have a little bit of a confession because the the hive mind was not immediately apparent. The first time these motherfuckers broke out and song at the door, and every single character in the juke was like, absolutely not, go the fuck away. The first thing that came into my mind was, oh my god, is this a vampire Gui Club? Like, did they have to rehearse this? Now, learning obviously that it's a hive mind of course, that makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:53

But hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

I like to think of the canon where Remick and friends are just like out there doing a one, a two, a one, two, three. You missed your mark. Start again from the top.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

Oh, listen, I'm right here with you. I was thinking that they had practiced that the whole walk there, forgetting that they probably can fly, obviously. They wouldn't. And that was revealed that they can. But yeah, I was thinking they were practicing the whole way through.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:16

For sure, for sure. You know what? And also I want to highlight really quick. We're talking about some like really great, like of the musical moments, the the horror moments. Like, there is also this really like touch of like comedy that you get, and there's that one scene where they're all passing around the garlic to try to see if any of them are vampires, and it reminds me of the faculty. Like, literally reminds me of the moment where they're all snorting whatever the drug was that that he that uh Josh Hartnett had in that movie, and like it was just hilarious because then you've got Delta Slim that like choked on it at first and was like the shit, like why does it have to be raw or whatever?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:58

Like Empering, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

Fucking hilarious moment that cut through the intensity.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Delta Slim had too much to drink, it was fallen apart. Can I also use this moment super briefly? But I have to while the opportunity arises. This may be the only time where I can actually talk about Gone Girl and it makes sense. Okay, hear me out. The actress that plays Joan, Lola Kirk, is in Gone Girl and she plays a similar-ish character. I'll leave it at that. But when I saw her face in the theater, I also almost hit the ground because I was like, wait a minute, this is a horror movie. So that means I can actually talk about Gone Girl and it can make sense. And I there's not much else to say to it, truthfully, but I just wanted to say Gone Girl in this episode. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Wow. I'm so glad that's so much value. Thank you for adding the Gone Girl relevance. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

Thank you. Thank you. Yep, yep. You're very welcome. It was very, very intentional and I feel very pleased. Yeah. My year is made.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Yeah. Well, you know, hey, at least shout out to her for giving a great performance in this movie. This entire cast is honestly rocked up and bottom. I think what's really great here is that the characters feel super realized, right? We know they're messy, we know they're flawed, but we also know they're deeply human. And even the vampires also sometimes feel deeply human when you talk about and think about what Remick is reflecting on and just what has happened on his time on this earth and what he'd seen and experienced. But what I love about this even more is that you can feel their histories and the way that they speak to each other. And that comes with a great deal of chemistry, especially between all of our like core leads, but it makes the emotional blows hit even harder. I think starting with stack and smoke, oh my god. Like again, Michael B. Jordan having this much chemistry with himself is just outrageous and unfair to the rest of the actors in this industry.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:07

Truly, for sure. I I love how Michael B. Jordan openly said that he did this movie not really liking horror movies all that much, but wanting to do something a little bit different, and then maybe ending up enjoying horror films a bit more, right? And and and did end up actually saying that he likes horror movies a lot more after doing this movie. And I gotta say, like, that's really great to hear. It is kind of like me. Like, I gotta say, I went into this, I'm not like the biggest Michael B. Jordan fan. I don't got nothing against him, but it's not like I was out there looking for Michael B. Jordan films all that much, but ended up really liking him a lot more after watching this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Yeah, there's just honestly immense talent. And I even think about the duality of these characters. There's also a lot of interesting notes on just even their wardrobe choices, the style of suits they're wearing, down to the colors of the hats that they're wearing. There's a lot to sink into. Again, we're gonna put links in the show notes to all of that so you can enjoy it at your leisure. But thinking about their protective personalities, thinking about the absolute joy that Stack felt listening to Samuel sing in the car, and then to pair that against Stack telling him about how Smoke killed her dad, how Stack was knocked unconscious, and when he came to Smoke was halfway done burying him. It really just paints the picture of who Smoke is, why there is the level of intensity that there is, and honestly just plays out what the rest of the movie is going to be in that moment, right? He's gonna be the last one standing, but he's also gonna protect his people, he's gonna protect his family, which makes it even harder like to know that their final words to each other were I love you. I can't even imagine, right? And again, this man talking to himself, ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:58

Absolutely crazy. It's not it's even just down to the intention of their names, like the smokestack twins, right? Smoke and stack, definitely inspired by Smokestack Lighting by Howland Wolf, right? Like another blues legend, right? That's an absolute legendary song, and that intention of putting that that together and making that their names, you just gotta love all the like fine details that they throw at you in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

And I think also the chemistry that they have with Preacher Boy as well, because him as a character also is one that could be easily underestimated, right? I mean, he's just a little cousin. There's like the sense of confidence that Smoke and Stack exude when they walk into town when they're back, you know, in Mississippi. And it's so interesting to see how Preacher Boy really just builds up that confidence, you know. Like he gets in his own, he builds that relationship with Perline. Like, I think it's all of these things that start to build up with time, but then also it becomes even more heartbreaking when he goes and he's walking into his father's church. Again, a moment that we don't quite understand at the beginning of the film, but when you've gotten all this context, it's it's like a great way to write a framed story because that full circle moment is almost like you could have never imagined the things that he had seen and witnessed walking into that church. And there's a lot of like layers, even with that as well, right? Like being a preacher, boy, being the son of a pastor, and all of those pressures and and this idea that you have to be a certain way and preserving that culture in and of itself. I think it's so interesting the duality between like his upbringing and uh and exploring the bit that we got from the context of them talking about how their dad, Smoke and Stack's dad, and you know, was related to Preacher Boy's dad and all that. Like there's it's the familial, I guess, like exploration of how different they could be, but then also how united in that love and strength that they had towards the very end fighting a swarm of vampires of their own people that they loved too.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Deep, deep wounds here. Deep in we also just talk about Mary for a second. Like preacher board is absolutely great, incredible. And now I'm also thinking about uh when he A engages Mary and then sees her for the first time and the situation that they're in, and then B re-engages her later on. I'm thinking about Mary's entrance, and oh my gosh, she felt like scorched earth, right? Like hell has seen no fury like a woman's corn. And I have not seen this actress uh speak quite this way. That was pretty fantastic. I loved it. I was immediately thinking, wow, this is the girl from Pitch Perfect, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:52

Same. I was not prepared at all. Steinfeld, damn.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:57

Bless you, Haley.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

That line, insane. The line that she gives later on. I I'm sorry, folks. I could only do the opening line that I could. I even I would blush saying that on this podcast.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:12

I want to go back to that depth you mentioned, though, because I think when you start to look at each of these characters, you realize how deep this movie goes and how each one of them represents like a different aspect of societal and cultural influence. And I think like Sammy talking to his dad in the couple scenes we get between the two shows this like this double-edged sword and this the safety for him of having that there that he can run to, but also that feeling of oppression with it as well. And it's just uh I think the same thing happens as you go through like each and every character and kind of see what they bring to the table. There's just it the feeling of me being in the very shallowest of waters and not having dug into this movie more to kind of read, and the more reading you do, I think the more you get.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:04

Yeah, there's already a lot of analysis out there about how they're all the seven deadly sins are present in a lot of the characters, right? You even think about like lust, greed, gluttony, etc. It's wild.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:16

You know what's absolutely hilarious though, about the character, a specific character in this movie? You know, we've talked a lot about some really great performances with Remick as a character in this movie, but did y'all know that that character was heavily inspired by the wolf from Puss in Boots, The Last Wish 2022?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:34

Right. I did hear that. I need to hear more, please. Educate us, Sean.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:38

All that I've seen that I've been able to see is that literally it's like the eyes is mainly the is mainly the heavy influence there, but I think it's just absolutely fucking hilarious that there was inspiration from Puss in fucking boots.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:53

How could there not be? You know, not by the hairs on my chinichin chins. Actually, no, I'm thinking about the wolf and the three little pigs. I haven't seen Puss and Boots in a very long time, but uh I clearly, wow, now we need to go see Puss and Boots.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:07

Right? Gotta get it on the podcast now. Oh my god. Listen, it's tough. You know, we're thinking about this movie. We said a lot of great things about this movie. We all slashed this movie. We all have to talk about a worse part of this movie, and I don't know how we're gonna do it, folks. Like, it's literally gonna be the toughest thing, and I don't know. I really I don't even know what to say. I guess the only thing I can really say is maybe that like we could have touched on the lore of the vampires just a tad. I was really interested in this type of vampire, right? Because it just seemed different, right? The vampires were not your typical vampire, like, right? They're not afraid of God in this movie. They're heckling people back at like preaching or praying, right? And they're also just taking chunks of flesh out of you, they're not just like sucking your blood. Like, there's so many interesting aspects that I wish we dived into maybe a little bit more, but again, like, is that the worst part?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:05

Yeah, I can tell you the worst part pretty fucking easily. Don't kill Annie. I'm kidding. I mean, I understand the role that she played and how powerful and moving this was. I understand. I don't I think you maybe fundamentally disagree with this decision, but fuck, I was so sad. I I just I wanted I wanted better for her. I really wanted better for her. Realistically, there isn't a single thing that I was displeased with in this movie, apart from maybe how much I laughed at the first song and dance number by the vampires, but also I think that disarming, charming, this is obviously an uncomfortable situation was fully intentional. It can't not be, right? But I honestly, this is such a great movie that I I would be hard pressed to find something that would that really weigh down or diminishes the experience.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:55

Yeah, there's no worst part to this film. In fact, I think the worst part is that I wanted more, specifically Sammy's musical performance, that magical performance. I just wanted more of it, but at the same time, I recognized that I got the correct amount, you know. But thinking about it, maybe that's what it is. It's just like you want it and you can't have it. And that's why you want it even more. And so the only solution is to watch it again, honestly. But going out of this film, what can you tear apart? Technically, perfect acting, perfect. I was torn at first about the concept of twins played by the same actor because we've seen it 50,000 times done very poorly or very obviously. And so we get into that, and I was like, really? We're like, don't be cheesy, but nope, even then they nailed it. So what on earth could you complain about?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:39

No, that is true. I don't think that there's really anything to complain about wholeheartedly. I if I had to pick, maybe it's like something that ultimately was addressed and justifiably so. So I think that all in all, maybe the worst part is that I hadn't seen Puss and Boots 2 prior to seeing this movie. Maybe I would have been like up in arms because now what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go ahead and watch Puss and Boots 2, and then I'm gonna re-watch this movie again. And then I'll really feel connected.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:11

I mean, there you go. What can you really say, right? I feel like I watched this one in theaters, I watched it again for this podcast, I bought this movie to have it fucking forever, and I'm gonna watch it again and again and again because it's that fucking good.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:25

Absolutely. One, love the blues, always did as a little kid, used to listen to BB King like obsessively at certain points, and there's just something soul soulful about this that deserves another.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:36

Yeah, I can't wait. This is one of those where I want to read a lot more and I want to research a lot more and then go back and watch this with fresh eyes after that experience. And I also want to watch this with someone else in person just to have that in-person reaction and an energy exchange. This movie's fucking phenomenal. I don't think we're gonna watch it again anytime soon. I need to give it some some time and really soak it in. But I can see myself watching this for sure annually at the very least. But for now, there you have it, folks. Sinners from 2025 has earned a universal slash. And we've certainly had a robust discussion here. There's a lot to sink our teeth into, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:18

If you want to find out how you can get into our juke joint and go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by visiting patreon.com/slash hackerslash. This is where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content, early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, which are free sides for the spooky season, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:42

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, you keep dancing with the devil. One day he's gonna follow you home.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

I think I've seen enough of this place.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:00

Okay, friends, so I'm dying to know. I think this was my first time watching this movie, and I came into this knowing that a lot of people had already seen a lot of it and watched it multiple times. But I'm curious to know for you and your rewatches, was there something that stood out that you missed the first time or that you learned about later that was really significant to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:21

I think for me, what I didn't quite like fully understand, or I guess didn't see the significance of was the Choctaw. So I didn't quite hear the beginning part where they were talking about the lore of the music. So I hadn't heard how the Irish had, you know, said that music did this, the Choctaw had said that the music did this, etc. So when they were introduced, it's not that I didn't see the value. I was like, oh, that's cool. Obviously the setting made sense, but I obviously wasn't quite sure just yet what they were, right? Like vampire hunters and all that. So that was kind of cool to also just see like their significance in the setting, the significance in the story in particular as well, how they like fit into the time period in the Mississippi Delta. Also, I I don't have that kind of historical context, right? I'm not, I'm just I'm from I'm in Florida. I'm unfortunately so much to learn, right? So I thought that that was something really cool to kind of like dig into a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:26

Yeah, I think it's always great when you can continue to watch a movie and pull even more out of the film and start to appreciate even more of like, even if you don't know all of like the rich history that's involved in this movie and like the representation of multiple different cultures and and different people in this movie, it's just really cool. Like as you learn more about it, and I know we're probably going to share some links and different things, right? For our listeners to kind of look at some really cool articles to dive further into this film. But yeah, it's the Choctaw people, right? It's the Irish immigrants, it's the Chinese immigrants, it's the black American culture that's like riddled within this movie. Like, there's so much to really dive into that really is so impactful that it's like crazy. The more you watch it, the more you kind of pull from this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:18

Yeah, there is really an intense amount of things. And actually, I'm gonna drop a link in the show notes, and the main headline of this article, the site is called Everything You Miss in Ryan Kugler Sinners Complete Historical Reference Guide. And I'm just gonna name a couple of like the subheadings that you're gonna see. Black Church, Buddy Guy. So we talked about him a bit, Black World War One fighters, really highlighting Smokestac's experience between the two of them, blues music as a whole, Chinese Americans in the Delta, and thinking about the segregation of the stores and why the brothers had to go into one specific store to get a sign. Sign made while they trans they while they went over to another store to get the mom, to get the wife, to get Grace to actually make the sign and negotiate that. The Choctaw Natives, Christianization of Enslaved Africans, Christianization of Ireland, we get a significant amount of that. Clarksdale, Mississippi, Convict Leasing, Chain Gangs, Sharecropping, Ernie Barnes, Voodoo and Conjuring. There's so much, right? There's when I tell you folks, like for a drink and sit down and just like fully read these things top to bottom. I know that we are all going to A, we're gonna continue researching this after this episode, but B, this is gonna be some healthy conversation in our community and our Discord. What a wealth of knowledge this this really this whole film brings.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:47

During the episode, I mentioned just how like well researched this film feels while watching it. Like without knowing all of the details, you can just feel it that something is here that like okay, they've they've got some stuff so right, and it's really good to kind of hear that yeah, they just did stuff quite deliberately all along the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:09

Now there's another article I'm gonna drop a link to, and this one is eight fun facts about sinners that's gonna change how you see the film. I'm gonna go for just a couple of these rapid fire, folks. The musical montage that we talked about that was filmed in one day. Amazing, absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:27

That's a lot to get done. I mean, you look at everything that happened in that scene. It's like, man, you've got so much happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:33

Yeah, I also want to point out that it was captured in a single uninterrupted shot.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:37

I'm telling you that DP is incredible. I need the awards for her, and I need it right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:44

Absolutely wild. Michael B. Jordan also had twin consultants, so Ryan Kugler comes with a from a family with significant amounts of twins. Lots of twins involved in helping him shape his mannerisms and his approach.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:56

Twinning.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:57

Mm-hmm. Uh, we have the again some more information here about Delroy improvising the musical moment and the chain gang scene. So we mentioned that in the episode. You're gonna find a link to that as well. And really also digs into that Candyman connection and even goes a little bit further into Sean, what you're referencing in terms of that Metallica song.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:16

Yeah, it's cool, man. I mean, you don't expect when you're watching this movie to really dive into a lot of like blues influence and that kind of, you know, that rich in like the Mississippi Delta blues scene and things like that, but then to come out of left field and have heavy inspiration from a Metallica song of all things, I mean that's just fucking cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:38

It really is. I want to go back and just fully appreciate and examine this movie. I'm also gonna go back. I was trying to avoid a little bit of it during the watch party, but our chat was very active because I believe almost everybody else had seen the movie except for me. And I know that there was even incredible dialogue pointing out the actual relationship between the Choctaw natives and Ireland, and there's a special relationship there that makes it even more significant if they are the ones chasing Remick at the beginning of the film. There's a lot that I want to go back and review, but I'm telling you, that conversation in this watch party channel A is fantastic, but B, the movie thread in the episode chat for this episode, I already know it's gonna be popping.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:23

I'm curious to know like what those details are still that none of us have come across because I have a feeling there's a good number more hidden elements, secret meanings, obvious meanings that we just didn't even like consider. You know, I think a lot of our listeners probably are aware of them or have seen articles about them. I think the more that we dig, I know uh you've done a good bit of digging already, but I think there's probably just so much more that is like buried in there. And I'm I'm curious. I want someone to write a really nice, like, I don't know, novel-length piece on just this film. I feel like there's probably enough enough in here to do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:58

Yeah, there's probably like a ton that of of things that we may be missing. Who knows? I mean, even just thinking of like the little details that we get that we don't explore a lot of, like we've got like the like representation of like hoodoo in this movie, not voodoo, right, but hoodoo in this movie. Like we got the reference of Haints, right? Uh, and you know, which is obviously a little bit different than vampires, right? So there's a really a lot of culture and history and and things from like the from the African culture to really dive into that I think is really cool. So the more you learn about this movie, the more you want to do some research and really study up on some of this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:38

Yeah, there's gonna be incredible conversation that's come from this first year. I know our Spotify comments are also gonna be very healthy on this, but Sean, you posed an interesting question earlier when we're talking about this before the recording. And I believe it was something to the effect of what a fucking wild moment to imagine like a con the vampires in the context of this film as like the horror rapper for everything. And what are some other scenarios in history that would be wild to see vampires in?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:08

100%. Like, just think about it. We got vampires in a very specific time period in this movie that we probably never thought we would get. So, yeah, like what would be some really interesting and maybe fun uh places that we could put vampires in and get like a maybe a surprisingly interesting story out of.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:28

Yeah, it's it's almost giving take prey but make it vampires instead of predator.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:33

Oh yeah. It's tempting, it's tempting to go recent. I think, you know, if we're thinking like post-war America, I think that would be really easy to adapt that to this type of vampire treatment. Uh, but you could also go so much further back and still have the same thing work. It I don't know, it feels very true blood, like how anchored in the past they they chose to make this type of vampire. And I I love that, but I feel like it would work well. You could take it back into Roman times and it would be just fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:05

That's fair. Oh, give us the plague and just the medieval times in general, but with vampires, give us prehistoric times with vampires. Honestly, I know I'm really jumping around a lot of different places here. Give us the French Revolution with vampires.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:21

That would be good, that would definitely be good for sure. That would be super unique, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:28

Like, I'm just imagining even going back, my brain is all over the place. I'm just like so fried thinking about this, right? But imagine like big significant health scares. Yeah, what were the panics that were of the time, and how were vampires actually behind it?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:46

That would be like really interesting to explore for sure. And I'm also thinking, like, you know, we're talking about like even going back in like way far in history, you know, and it's something that I think even like I gotta say, I wanna say like the originals, that TV series, kind of, you know, their characters as like the original vampires, like they kind of go back. I don't know what time period it was that they were all made into vampires, but it looked pretty fucking far back, like almost tribal, right? You know what I mean to an extent, and like what an interesting time to go back and like explore that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:22

I got it. Are you fucking ready for this? We're cooking with fire, literally and figuratively. The witch trials. JK, they're not witches, they're just fucking immortal.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:33

They're just immortal. The plot twist.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:36

See, I think the more interesting take there would be the fact that uh the people who were making the witch trials happen would be the vampires. You know, that but it would be it would be interesting to have vampires in both, or to have no vampires, but to have the threat of them. It's all an illusion.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:52

Absolutely crazy. I mean, what if we just go super modern? What if we have like a love island for vampires? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:58

Whoa.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:59

Gosh, that's a pendulum swing. Blood Island.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:04

Okay, actually, fun uh blood island, that's hilarious. You can actually do this soon in the Sims. I know this is like a random thing, but I've mentioned a few episodes. I'm back on my Sims bullshit. Ha ha! But you can get the you have the vampire pack. Yeah, you have that. You can make vampire, you can also make werewolves, you can make a lot of different things. I'm really falling down a rabbit hole. But there's a new pack coming called Adventure Awaits, and in Adventure Awaits, you can do a lot of different things. You can make a fucking camp, you can make a retreat, you can make what their little getaway is called Love Highland, and it's actually a space where you can do cooking competitions, you can do dating competitions. Motherfucker, we could sims it up, Sean. We could make Blood Island.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:48

Oh my god, can you imagine the drama?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:52

I need you to know how ridiculous it is because I was just uh disconnecting from work on my drive home, and I was like thinking about this episode, and I thought, let me think about something completely unrelated, and I put on my fucking YouTube app and just listen to someone like react to a trailer for Adventure Awaits for the Sims 4. How the fuck did that become relevant here in this moment? It did. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:18

Listen, one EA sponsor us. Two, how dare you not send me that link? Three, now that I'm remote, I'm hearing lots of time for me to go and play Sims again. Four. So you're telling me that we really could make this happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:38

We can make this happen, Binks. Should we share a save file?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:42

I think we should. Holy just drive to your house and just drop in.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:45

Yeah, just create it. Come on over. Binx, we could do a whole fucking Discord party where it's it's just a let's play and it's us doing Sims 4 bullshit. The people will love that. Well, they love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:58

I also have wicked whim, so maybe they wouldn't like uh well I don't know, just sitters have a lot of wicked whim, not gonna affront.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:07

So probably pure gold for sure, but hey, listen, we have another obvious angle that you know we know that everyone loves when we take it there, and we can get vampires in space, folks. We can get vampires in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:24

Oh man, okay. Another great show for all mankind imagines what if the Soviet Union beat us during the space race and put people on the moon first. Incredible show, it's really good, and then it also highlights the lavender scare at the time. Oh, I need to finish that show, actually. Now that I think about this, but I'm just thinking about re watching that, but there's fucking vampires everywhere. Sean, that's great. That's really great.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:49

Crazy. There's so many options here.