414: The Exorcism of Emily Rose (2005)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Do you think there's hospice for demonic possession? Pokey season greetings and salutations and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Tell me your six names. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, unintended. We believe horror is for everyone, and at such we're rateing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

We are the ones that dwell within.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And the paranormal paramour thinks a lot of cats live here. This week we're checking on an exorcism film inspired by true events.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yep, and stick around after the episode to check out our B side at the end of this episode, where we get into the creepy ass story the movie we are about to review is based on.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

And actually speaking of that true story, in 1976, the story of a young German woman made international headlines. After months of exorcism sanctioned by her family and the church, she died under the care of two priests who were later convicted of negligent homicide. Nearly three decades later, filmmakers Scott Derrickson and Paul Harris Boardman adapted that story into a courtroom drama layered with horror. Their script set out to explore not only the question of guilt, but also whether demonic possession can or should be considered real in a modern legal system. This week we're talking about The Exorcism of Emily Rose. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_04 1:48

I actually saw this in theaters with my mom. I was maybe like a little shy of 13. Wow. I feel like, but it's been a long time since I've seen this movie. Maybe haven't seen it completely since then, so I've forgotten a lot of what happens here.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Wow, that's you really 13 going on 30.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Well so many movies that I really shouldn't have seen at that age, guys.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

13 for sure. I I don't think I saw this one in theaters. This is definitely one that I've seen several times before. It's definitely been a while though, but I love me some exorcism movies for sure, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:24

On the flip side of that, I actually don't really care for exorcism movies. It's just not my bag. The whole idea of exploration of like spirituality and religion is just not my flavor of horror. But this is one that I saw in high school. So this movie came out in 2005. This movie's 20 years old. I feel super old now saying that. Holy shit. Damn. But yeah, I remember watching this in high school, and I also remember fucking loving it. This was one of those like early 2000 films that I was super into.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

I feel like, yeah, it's weird to say 20 years old this movie is, and maybe, yeah, I was probably watching it that long ago. I don't, like I said, I don't think I saw it in theaters, but I definitely watched it around the time that it came out. And, you know, watching this movie now, it really stirs up this like cocktail of emotions. You know what I mean? It's like filled with dread, it's filled with empathy, there's this unease about the movie. The possession scenes, I feel like they're raw, they're unsettling. It's different than you get in like normal exorcism movies. I feel like you've got a whole lot of you got you got more to it, but then you you also have those courtroom scenes that are so intriguing. It adds this layer of drama to the film that I wish they did actually more of in the third conjuring film. Like they could have really tied that in a lot better.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Yeah, I actually think back on that episode now, after re-watching this, I'm like, damn, I like that movie maybe a little bit more than I should have, given the things that I liked about it were the legal proceedings and just thinking about the exploration of this as like a criminal act, whereas this gives you way more than that. And let me tell you though, looking back on this movie when I walked into it this time around, first time I'm watching it, not necessarily in 20 years, but I haven't seen it in at least 10. And I was remembering to myself, wow, okay, yeah, I remember the exorcism of it all being very graphic. I remember this being like very contortionist style. But watching this one again, I felt way more captivated, but not by the possession. I feel like there was so much here that I forgot about in terms of just how much really was the courtroom framing that made this movie feel like way more weighty without leaning too hard on traditional horror. There's like a lot of back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Right. I was I like the only one. I I thought I might have been the only one that like totally forgot the entire like courtroom presence of this movie. I remembered exorcism, I remembered some fucked up shit happens, and I remembered like college campus. Those are the three things that I remembered going into this movie, but not the courtroom.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, I remembered the courtroom stuff. I just didn't remember all the preamble to the courtroom stuff. Like, there's a lot, there's a lot that you get. Like, you even get picking out what prosecutor is gonna do it, picking out the defense attorney. There was way more here. It was almost like that on Netflix, the special about OJ Simpson. It felt like that. It felt like that in a horror movie. And listen, between that balance of like the back and forth of the legal stuff, and then obviously Jennifer Carpenter's incredible performance as Emily Rose, I was locked in still.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

Yeah, absolutely. I'm right there with you guys. I completely forgot that this was a law horror film, which how fitting, considering that we had just reviewed Conjuring 3. I think that this was really like incredibly timed without it really being on purpose, to be honest. It was not our intention, but somehow worked out that way because it provided me definitely like a an opportunity to compare my thoughts on that one, considering they're both possession related, right? All of these other things. But man, I must agree that when I was reflecting on young me watching this, granted, 13, really shouldn't have, I thought that this movie was absolutely terrifying. And I think re-watching this, I didn't feel so much the impact of terror as much as the impact of like, what if this was really the case? And can I say it now? You know how sometimes these movies, they're like, oh, it's based on a true story. Re-watching this, I was deadass, like so honestly. Like I honestly was just looking at it like, oh, this can't actually be true. Like maybe they just threw that in there just to say that it was a true story. I am a little jaded because I watched The Fourth Kind recently as well. That's another one that I saw in theaters, thought was absolutely terrifying. So good. Recently rewatched it. And when I was young, I thought that that movie was based on a true story. It obviously was not. So I'd be rewatching right. Like I rewatched this one thinking like, okay, this is also a lie. So I can't wait for us to obviously like talk about that further. We we even unpack it a little bit more in the B sides, too. But I think the sentiment of what if this was actually the case is something that you bring like a different perspective as an adult versus when you watch this when you're younger. But that being said, it obviously is the most surprising part about this film because I think what a lot of people expect out of a possession film is lots of terror, lots of like incantations and rituals. But we get a really good, like law and order type of situation here.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

We really do. And that's where I find both the pleasant surprise, but then also a little bit of disappointment this time around. For me, it's like when you look at this film, it really walks a fine line of skepticism and belief. And sure, yeah, we have heretic, we had the exorcist believer, we have so many movies that really kind of play with this idea. But what I appreciate here is it allows the medical and religious explanations to sit side by side and both hold space at the table. But I almost wish it would have just played more into that because I going back into it now, there is an additional layer here where we get thrust. At least I'll be curious to see who you all latched on to is like who is your person in this movie? Because there is a central character who falls very much in the place of neither belief nor disbelief, but is very much like agnostic, doesn't partake in any like religion or faith. But there are things that they experience that make you then have the question of is this the person who watched a scary movie late at night and is now hearing things, or is the implication that something is really happening? I like it. I think it on paper it makes so much sense, but this time around, it just didn't hit as well for me as the first time I saw the movie.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Interesting. I think all of what we're talking about here is definitely like one of the more surprising aspects of the film, especially if you haven't seen this one before, because other than the genre blend of the courtroom drama and possession being like a surprisingly good mashup in this movie, I think you said it best, Binks, that's like the new thing is law horror. You know what I mean? So, so good. I think what is most surprising is you know, we're talking about like, you know, is it like medical, is it religious faith, whatever. I think it's just surprising that this film never really truly commits to being on either side of this debate that's going on, right? Like because it the way that it's it's telling the story and the way that it's executed is you're getting everyone's side of the story. And when those sides of the story are happening, you're getting flashbacks and snippets and different things like that that kind of go along with what they're saying. So it's like we're not really committing to one side or the other. It's really, it's really letting the audience decide, and it keeps the movie unsettling and thought-provoking for sure. And it's one of the things that I think the story that this movie is based on, which we'll talk about a little bit later, also does based on who the audience is, right? You make your choice. Is it faith? Is it medical? We don't know, but it's just a very surprising aspect of the film. On a lighter note, I never realized that this movie eventually takes place on All Hollows Eve, which I thought was very interesting. That little mention, if you didn't catch it, like that was like, oh, okay, it's you know, we're in the spooky season. They mentioned this is all hollows eve, I'm here for it. That was a nice little touch for sure. But man, I do think one of the disappointing aspects of this film is that it does lack scares. And I don't want to like say that this movie isn't completely frightening because there are a couple of key moments in this film that are iconic and truly unsettling and frightening, especially just like if you ever go back and like listen to any of the actual audio from the exorcisms, right? That that this movie's based on, it is like really well done the way they brought it to life. And it's very, very interesting. But I think if you're looking for constant terrifying moments, it doesn't really deliver in the same way something like the exorcist does, right? Like it's it's instead of being all about scares, it's mostly like I don't know, it's almost heartbreaking in a way, you know, because you end up really feeling for Emily in this movie. So it's a very it's a mixed bag, but it's not truly a scary, scary film.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, this movie is very human and very heartfelt in that regard. And this for sure is not frightening, but I think it's because the courtroom setting diffuses terror. It does that by grounding you in legal testimony, right? There's nothing that takes the fear out of things quite like talking about all the legality surrounding it and the dry lines of questioning back and forth. And if you catch a zinger here and there, then it makes it a little bit more interesting and titillating. But what I find is interesting about this movie is that the flashbacks of these possession are very intense in the moment. So where I think it r actually works is you have a little bit of scary, but then you're buffered by rational thought and logical explanations that really cause belief or disbelief. And I think it's a great starter kit movie. This is such a safe movie to watch with someone who maybe is on the side of okay, supernatural things really freak me out, but you want to not subject them to insidious and have someone as traumatized as Binx is. I will also say that Jennifer Carpenter listen, girl, the things you're doing in this movie could be nightmare fuel for someone. Not me, but could be.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Well done. Absolutely. No, I think Jennifer Carpenter is a face and a name that you'll remember, if not for Dexter, then at least for this movie, because this woman can emote some things that you will not forget, that's for sure. But I have to agree with you, Sean, that even for someone like me that can get scared very easily, or at least tries to advocate for those that can get scared very easily, this one doesn't quite have so much the traditional jump scare moments. It definitely has some level of intimidation, and that is in part because of Jennifer Carpenter. But think of it more as the intensity and the tension built through the legal drama of it all, with like Chris says, right? Like those moments of like, wait a minute, there's a paranormal explanation to these things. And so it creates this level of doubt. But it's because of that that I think that this movie actually is pretty original because especially in the early 2000s, where you're expecting a little bit more of the extremes, right? Extreme exorcisms. And in other ways, we've gotten more extreme slashers and the more of the gore and the grit, it doesn't quite meet those traditional marks, maybe in the production element and the blue of it all, some moments. But I think for the writing, it is very different. It takes a different approach. It's more of a courtroom drama. And I think it also poses the question of like this faith versus science and what does that look like in the courtroom where our justice system is all about like benefit of the doubt, right? Or, you know, you can't necessarily, you know, defend someone or or persecute someone based on something that you just don't know is fact and certain. So I think that that part's really interesting to introduce not only to a horror movie, but a horror movie that's in the early 2000s, it's very rare, obviously, from what we can see.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

For sure. And I I think that's the specific thing that makes this movie super entertaining. I think we can be very honest with ourselves. If this movie didn't start the way it did by subverting your expectations just slightly, and if it didn't have the legal framework and wrapper for this story, this would have felt like another exorcist knockoff. Instead, though, it positions itself really well as a duality of government proceedings versus spiritual proceedings, and I think that's where this movie finds like a really solid niche.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Yeah, for sure. It's based on that true case, right? It pulls from the real story of Annalise Michel, but really grounding the supernatural horror in like this real-world tragedy, and I think it gave it this unique weight and realism, which it does make it feel original. It does make it stand out amongst other possession flicks, like you guys are all talking about. But I think what's also kind of interesting at the same time as all of that is that the ending that we get is not necessarily the explosive ending you would think you would get in a movie about an exorcism, right? It's both bittersweet and unsettling in its own right. That's the best way that I can describe this ending. Instead of giving you this big, horrifying finale, I feel like the ending leaves you with this lingering ambiguity. Was it supernatural? Was it not, right? Like it never really commits to the bit. And so it's different than other exorcism movies, right? In those movies, they're really driving the fact that this person is possessed by the devil or a demon or whatever, and there's this whole battle of good versus evil, and at the end, whatever happens, happens, but there's this big showdown, right? And I feel like in this ending, it's a little bit different. Like you're not gonna get that explosive ending, but what you are gonna get is you're gonna get like a really interesting, kind of bittersweet moment. It does still leave you questioning and it makes you decide for yourself. What do you think about this?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah, it's the way that your mind can wonder, well, what about this part? What about that part? And the fact that it lingers with you after the credits roll is significant. And I think it's one of those where I don't want to like dive too much into the specifics of what I mean here, but this movie feels like compromise. Like it absolutely does. It doesn't leave you with one resounding victory one way or another. It's just it leaves you right there in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

This movie's like, I hear you bulls. So we're gonna end up here.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Agree to disagree. That's crazy. That's a fantastic way to put that. Uh man. And look, more power to them because at the very least they recognize, like, okay, well, if we're gonna make it a legal drama, let's kind of walk the line here. But yeah, something about the ending, I I I've got to agree. It's a little bit of on the one hand makes me think, okay, yeah, rationality, reason, sure. On the other, I almost interpret it a little bit as like slight dramatics, which is interesting. I I don't know if I would have maybe seen it that way as a kid, right? As a kid, I was probably like blown away, like, oh shit, like this is crazy. But you know, I'm an adult now, I'm a little bit tainted by life and adulthood and a slew of horror movies that I've seen by now, right? So I maybe approach some of the scenes, especially towards the ending, a little bit differently, but it it is a very happy medium. Or maybe happy is a weird way to put that.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Oh, it's a way to put that, thanks. But let's see how we put these ratings before we actually score this film. Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Well, most of the disturbing imagery comes from Emily's physical deterioration and her overall appearance, right? The violent contortions, anguished expressions. I feel like it's unsettling, it's raw, but it's not really gory. So when it comes to the gore, this one keeps it pretty holy, right? It's less blood and guts and more shaken faith and twisted contortions. So it's definitely getting a low gore score.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

What about the animal report?

SPEAKER_04 19:34

So no animals were harmed, but there is some eating of dead bugs. So if you're not a fan of critters, this is your warning.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

All right. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. The exorcism of Emily Rose from 2005, was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Well, dang, I'll kick us off here. I think The Exorcism of Emily Rose, it's a rare possession film that unsettles you, not with the gore and the fright, like we've been talking about, right? But with I think it's haunting ambiguity. I think by blending this courtroom drama with this supernatural terror, it forces you to really wrestle with the tension between faith and science, belief and doubt. The debate so many of us wrestle with in our lives, right? So many people, you can relate to that. Whether you believe or you don't believe, this is something that somebody out there can relate to. And I think we've mentioned it already. We're probably going to continue to talk about it, but Jennifer Carpenter's raw, heartbreaking performance makes Emily feel less like a victim of horror tropes and more like a woman that's enduring unimaginable suffering. And I think, listen, you can maybe complain about the pacing slowing down during the trial scenes, and we get less gore and less overall scares and other possession or exorcism horror flicks, but the emotional weight and spiritual unease that stick with you so long, long after the credits roll, right? I feel like when it comes to the case of faith on trial, I'm ready to carve out a verdict because this one's definitely possessing your attention and it's a divine slash.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

I feel that. Yeah, you know, after watching it after so many years, obviously I found it, like we've been talking about, to be a little bit more of a legal drama with a sprinkle of horror than like an overall true fright fest, like I thought this movie was all these years later, because I just remember being so terrified of this movie. And I thought that that really was the case. But regardless of that, the true terror is Jennifer Carpenter's performance. She delivers such a compelling and physical performance as Emily that that really is the star of the show. And despite that, I think that the film does balance the courtroom proceedings with like this supernatural element that I obviously love and is very unique. But I do struggle with calling. This is like a pure horror film, right? Because I think, again, teenage me was convinced that this was terrifying to an insidious level, like we joked earlier. And adult me is like, what was I even thinking? You know, like, could I really that scared? And, you know, like a little scaredy cat? Maybe. But regardless, even if you walk into this as maybe a newcomer to horror or you're just wanting to throw something on, the strength not only lies just in Jennifer Carpenter's performance, like we've been saying, it's also just the idea that we're talking about faith on trial, like you said, Sean, and this idea that, you know, what if this was to really happen? You know, the tension that it builds, the genuine scares of both the family members, but the person, the victim itself, as you're reliving these moments, I think that that's what makes it really entertaining and compelling, regardless if there is no jump scares or true fright that you're feeling. It's an interesting take on the subgenre, and we don't really see that often. The most recent one we got was Conjuring Three, like we just said. And truthfully, I think that this approached it much better. And that's a lot coming from me. So I think that although this didn't quite meet the expectations and the hype that I had built up for the last 20 years, it's still definitely a slash, and I would recommend it if it's something that you just want to throw on for the spooky season or don't want to like get absolutely terrified and want to go to sleep at night.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Well, I think I might keep it even simpler than all of that. I think this is a great starter kid horror movie. I think it doesn't hit as intensely as it did in 2005 when I watched it. But also, I was 15. What the fuck did I know about anything at that point in life, right? This movie is a great courtroom drama. It has splashes of horror, it keeps things interesting, but Jennifer Carpenter steals the show in every single moment she's in, and she does a phenomenal job portraying a highly sympathetic character. And that is the heartbeat of this movie. That is the soul of this movie. It also doesn't hurt that this movie does an incredible job exploring both sides of possibilities, and that's really where this movie shines. It's because when I was younger, I watched it and I was like, ooh, okay, this is an exorcism movie that's actually kind of interesting because I think I'm invested in her as a character. It's a little spooky, but then adult me is realizing damn, this is such a great take on what it means to believe or disbelieve or just to be skeptical, and how to view uh the experiences that someone else is living. We often make assumptions or assertions about what a person is going through, but we have no idea what the fuck is going on beyond uh what we see on the surface. So this movie gives you a lot to chew on. It gives you a lot to consider, and that's why it is still undoubtedly a slash. Now, you can find this movie streaming online. Go check it out so you can share what you think with us. We are gonna get into the spoiler zone here in just a bit, but we'll give you a moment to go collect your thoughts. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

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SPEAKER_02 26:53

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for the exorcism of Emily Rose, which has earned a universal slash. Now we have so much to sink our teeth into here, but before we get into all that, Sean, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Well, much like the gore in this one, the list of kills is extremely short. With only two deaths during this film's runtime, there isn't going to be much debate on which of these two are the best kills, so let's just get into them. What did y'all think about the two kills that we did get in this movie?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Listen, Dr. Cartwright getting hit by a car. Your boy really was there very briefly. He was there until he wasn't. We had this glimmer of hope. We had a glimmer of hope, but also I think what's significant there is this is a different type of violence than we've already seen in the movie, right? So, I mean, you have Emily going through what Emily's going through, but then this man just straight up gets hit by a fucking car. And it ends up feeling not unlike in the omen when you have other deaths surrounding you circumstance.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Very omen-like for sure.

SPEAKER_04 28:03

Yeah, I I gotta say, poor doctor. Because I mean, also it's like I guess the reality of it, right? Like you're more likely to obviously get hit by a car than full-on possessed, too. So then even when I think of it from that angle where it's like this logic and reason and factuality that's existing in this legal drama versus the supernatural and paranormal element to it, it's also like, yeah, you could accidentally get hit by a car, or it also could be a demon.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah, blah, blah, blah. So here's what I want I want the exorcism of Emily Rose, but I want the sequel that's actually a prequel. And that almost kind of like actually lying king one and a half. I want the behind the scenes to show how the exorcism of Emily Rose is really just a final destination movie.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

That's crazy. I like it. Sign me the fuck up. Yeah. That's a nice little like novella of the whole debacle. But speaking of Emily Rose, I mean, yeah, that's a pretty sad one. When it starts off with just revealing her kill, that's actually a moment that I did forget as well. I was thrown off by that because I I entirely I forgot that this was a legal horror film to begin with, right? So when it starts off with that revelation, I was like, oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:30

I feel like a lot of people remember this movie as the exorcism that happens in the farmhouse. Yeah. You know, like at least that was that was the case for me. I remember the farmhouse, I remember Jennifer Carpenter.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:44

That's all I got in the chamber, you know. So when it starts with that, I'm like, oof, the the picture alone is haunting. It does.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

The picture is super haunting.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

It is, but I also really love the subversion that we get when we have this guy in a coat walking up to this house. It's foggy, it's moody, he's wearing a hat. This obviously looks like a priest walking up to a place for an exorcism. But then when he's revealed to be the medical examiner and then cannot definitively say that she died of natural causes. What a great fucking way to open up this movie. And it sucks because every moment from there on out that you see Emily, it's even more sad because you see her in such great moments of joy and reverence, and then you see her fall apart piece by piece throughout the movie, and you already know where it ends for her. It's just really fucking sad.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Oh, yeah, for sure. And yeah, I the open really good. Uh again, yeah, I am with you, Binx. I only really remembered two main things. I remembered the farmhouse, like barn exorcism scene, and then I remember like campus, right? Like I remember the possession scene in campus, like I remember that very clearly. So like I was expecting to maybe start there at some point and then get to the other part, and I totally forgot about everything else. But yeah, when you think about it, like Emily's kill is so intense in such a unique way that we would get in a lot of other horror movies. Because even though, like, it's not even that we like see like the actual like death happening, like we just see the progression of it. That's what hits you the hardest, right? It's that slow progression throughout what we're talking about throughout the entire film's runtime, you know, from start to finish, and just that progression and that transformation and the suffering and the just the way that she looks from point A to point B is just so intense, it's so raw, it's so unsettling, it's heartbreaking. It hits you in a way different way than you do with like even when you think of like Regan in The Exorcist, you're like, Yeah, I just didn't feel the same empathy that I felt for Emily, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Yeah, I I love Linda Blair. Regan and The Exorcist, great, good for her. However, I give way more shits about Emily Rose, and I think it's just because of like just where we see her. There's something about me that doesn't emotionally attach to The Exorcist very well. But that's exactly why the script is so significant for me in this movie. This thing balances trial structure with flashbacks in a way that keeps both storylines really engaging, but also emotional because every single time we see Emily come on screen and she's at a point where A, she hasn't experienced the the symptoms of possession or epilepsy, or we get to these moments where she's like truly suffering and looking for comfort and aid in others, it's just gut-wrenching. And Jennifer Carpenter like steals the show again, like she is such a central part of why this movie is what it is, but I think it's such a great combination of her talent and her ability to portray Emily alongside an incredible script.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Yeah, it's very interesting to think of all of the things that went into making this movie special. And I can tell you, like for me, it's some of the best elements of this film are like the subtle things that give it its lasting power. When you really think about the sound design, for example, specifically just the sound design, right? Those growls, those whispers, those layered voices during the possession scenes are genuinely unnerving and really amplifies like the tension without the need to really show too much. So you can't really, it's subtle. Like you're watching, it's not subtle, but like it's subtle in the fact that you're watching it and you don't even realize how much that adds to the film. And then if you go and listen back to like the actual audio from the actual case and then listen to this back, like you gotta give them kudos for trying to recreate some of this stuff. And then when you think about like even just the editing or the overall structure of this film, those jumps between the courtroom and the flashbacks keep you on edge, they keep you engaged. It's really balancing that emotional drama with the horror. So these subtle things that the film does so well that keeps you invested.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

Absolutely. And it also makes me think of the actual case, right? And the recordings that they have of the growling and all that, the different people that she was, right? I feel like thinking back on the movie, because I obviously saw like a bit of the interviews in those clips afterwards, right? I was like, man, they pretty they nailed that pretty well. And it does add to the intimidation factor. And I think for me, what I was like really the most impressed about was the faces of the people that she was seeing as she was like walking through the campus. It's actually like honestly, also my favorite scene. I think that that first impression of her just losing it and the looks on the faces of the people that walk by, they're staring at her. It feels like they're melting. I thought that that was great effects, but also really left a mark on me because imagine being a teen, you know, like you're in college by yourself, you know, on your own, just trying to, you know, like be something of yourself, leave the farm and and be your own woman. And this is what happens to you. Every face that you see is haunting, staring at you, terrifying, nowhere to turn, nowhere to look to. When she walks into the telephone booth to look on her face, it's just it's very heartbreaking. And especially when I try to put myself in the shoes of just like a student or a higher education professional, knowing that a lot of people, when they make a big leap like that transition, it's a lot of helplessness, hopelessness that happens in search of your own identity, but you would never really get to see that moment with Emily. And every face that you would imagine is someone that would provide comfort and be welcoming towards her instead as a fucking demon. Like that's fucked. So I think on both the production element side, but also just in the writing itself, that that scene really stood out to me because on the production side, haunting. Again, I just re-watched Fourth Kinds and I was like, damn, it kind of looks a little bit similar on that front, very scary looking, most definitely. But then just on the writing and and the impact, I think I felt like wow, this is a scene that I'm surprised didn't stick with me as long as like the the farm obviously exorcism did.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

For sure. And you know, when you described that scene being one of the things that I thought when I was watching the movie was the dark night movie where Christian Bale plays Batman, but it's with Killian Murphy as Scarecrow, and then every time you see a different mask, it like is really fucky. That's what I thought of. However, my favorite scene is very similar and a lot really just along that whole vein, but I think it also encompasses the courtroom setting. And it is where we're getting the testimony of the phone call that was made to the payphone, and then shows us what Emily experienced when she woke up in the middle of the night at 3 a.m., smelled something burning, got out of bed, and then all of a sudden when she gets back in bed, she's just under this like crushing pressure and just like sinking and sinking and sinking more into the bed. A what a fucking scene. Like that, obviously, you obviously you understand why she's scared out of her mind. But in addition to that, it is the fact that we get different explanations and then we get another recreation or a little moment of that scene where it looks like she's just having an epileptic sc and that is the beauty of the duality of this movie. Because it doesn't let you just like completely sit in one camp or the other.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah, it is super interesting that the way that this movie kind of depicts both sides, like we've been talking about. You know, to Binks' point, like the farmhouse or barn like exorcism scene is like one of the most iconic scenes in this movie, just like the way that they recreated that, the performance from Jennifer Carpenter. And you know, the first even all you could even say all of the scenes where we get Emily possessed, right? They're just so intense, they're raw, they're chilling, the contortions, the vocal distortions, like Carpenter's physical performance. It's an unforgettable moment like that, like that, that like sets the tone for the supernatural threat, or not, that this movie really is, right? But I will highlight another scene, and all of these scenes I feel like that we're highlighting are really like the moments that add like the the chilling aspects of this movie. But the scene where like Emily's sister goes to check on her when Father Moore gets to the house for the first time and she's squatting in the corner, like eating a bunch of spiders. First of all, where the fuck did all those spiders come from that she just scrounged up around this house? But she's sitting there like hunched over, squatting in the corner, like chewing on these things. It's fucking like I can only imagine like some of these types of things like really scarred me as a child, right? I just remember distinctly watching Pet Cemetery, right? And like the whole scene where the sister like goes to check on like was it her older sister or whatever, and she's like sick in bed.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Zelda, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, right. And that shit scarred me as a kid. I don't know what it was, but I was like deathly afraid of wanting to take care of anybody that was sick after that for a good while. And like then you've got these just it's just these moments where you're sending like this poor, like innocent child up to go check on what you know is a completely deranged sibling, right? You know something's wrong, right? Whether it's medical or psychotic or fucking demonic. Like, I I shouldn't be sending my fucking kid to go check on my other fucked up kid, you know? Let me go handle my shit.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Absolutely, which is also what I think makes some of this fucking family a really sad to see what they went through, especially when you think of what the actual circumstances were and the and the the true story behind the inspiration for this film. But that family, that like collective family unit, I'm just thinking about that moment again. We talked about the beginning where the medical examiner arrives and you he just walks into a house where everyone is devastated and everyone has been hurting, and it's just like you feel for these people. And man, I'm even thinking about I know we talked about Emily a lot, but I'm thinking about Father Moore, who isn't necessarily framed as like this heroic person, but is really just like a man of conviction, a man of his faith who wants to risk anything just to tell her story and like uphold this promise.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah. It father Moore's an interesting character, right? Like he he's definitely there's this compassionate side to him, but the characters also flawed at the same time, right? There's this moral struggle, definitely adds depth to the film's exploration of belief versus the evidence. So we can talk about Jennifer Carpenter all day long, and there's so much great things to say about it. There are some subtle things that some of these other characters really add, and Father Moore's character really does add this interesting touch to the film.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Yeah, I think that also going back to the family, and then even with Father Moore introduced to it, they they're interesting because they definitely serve as a vehicle for like exploring something that you can't quite explain. And obviously Father Moore, but with the family too, it was a little hard for me to put my finger on it because I think it's mentioned a few times that the family wanted Father Moore to be involved. They obviously were religious, you know. But I almost wish that I had seen a little bit more of that explored. I wanted to see a little bit more of the family's perspective on this whole thing, too, because on the one hand, obviously Father Moore maybe has the most responsibility over what occurred on you know, on Emily Sure. But the family also thought this was a good thing too, to an extent, right? Like they thought that they were doing the right thing by her. But it's hard because I mean, if you're in that situation, you'll do anything, right? You trust this person to know what they're doing. You also aren't too sure. I mean, there's lots of other factors we could probably explore, you know, where they're located, what kind of access to education do they have? Are they fully aware of the medications that she was taking, etc., right? So we can also entertain that theory. But I think that they're just interesting characters to sit on the camp of faith. And then we have Erin, who is like really this new neutral ground, maybe at the start is someone who is very much like, I don't believe any of this shit. But what I do m believe is me becoming senior partner and securing that bag. That's what I believe. But as things continue on, right, and she ends up getting a little spooked here and there, some circumstances you can't help but doubt, which is the whole bit with a legal case, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Well, then also then look into the fact that she just got this guy off for murder, and then oh, here he is on the news again.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Yeah. Oh, yes. It is very interesting, uh her. Character for sure. Definitely a different, another different element to the film. Yeah. And I always actually, you know, watching this one back, just always have this debate in my own head about the just the legalities of it all, right? Forget like the debate between, you know, the evidence, that is it met is it like this medical thing that we should have been treating? Is it is it actually an exorcism that should have been done? But I just think about the situation and why they're in court. And I'm those I'm when you just watch this movie, and maybe it makes a little bit more sense what actually happened when we get into that a little bit later, B sides or the free sides, but I think that it's very interesting the legalities of it because it's like, well, who who's actually to say like if the family decides like what's best for their family member? You know what I mean? It's not like it's not necessarily like they were there like fucking beating her, like she was doing all that shit to herself, and they just decided not to take medications or put her in like an institution or whatever. And like, is there a is there a right that you have as like the father or the legal guardian or whatever it may be, like, or the father and the mother, the the legal guardians, right? Like it's just a very interesting kind of subject in general that always made me question like why are we even in this courtroom right now? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah, we need some legal listeners to tap in and give us the lowdown, but there's a few different angles to it, right? One is yes, she does enough to herself, but then also does there come a point where she is not able to, she's not in like in a condition to consent to the treatment that she has or the continued treatment. And when you look at okay, for example, one of the doctors is on trial, or he well, not on trial, but he's being questioned, and she's like, Well, you would force her to do these things, and he says to save a life, absolutely. On the one hand, these medical professionals, these experts are paid significant amounts of money by either party who they're testifying for. So there's that aspect of it, but also B literally their whole job is to save life, unless she has a do not resuscitate. Like they have to do literally anything to to provide care. But where it comes down to being interesting is that level of someone who can and cannot consent. Then where does that come in terms of like next of kin or power of attorney? There's so many different things that go into that, so I would for sure be fascinated to know. But the reality is that all this came at Emily's choice.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

So it's it's interesting for sure. It's fucking interesting.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

I mean, it is definitely interesting for sure. But I guess I would say, like, aside from all of that, I think the worst part if I had to pick one for this movie was probably maybe just the lower payoff at the end. Like, I think that the way they ended it, you know, the emotional like weight of Emily's death, and like you've got the courtroom verdict and all that. I'm not mad at all of that, but I do think it was a bit anticlimactic because we didn't really get to see maybe the horrific end in the way that we might have expected to see. And so the payoff there wasn't 100% for me. So if I had to pick a worse part, that would probably be it.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yeah, I don't know that I am mad at the compromise of this ending and thinking about uh you're guilty, but no more time for you. I'm okay with her. And then also seeing like what has become of her gravesite, etc. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

For me, and this is such a particular thing, it is just that the moments we get with Erin being creeped out and scared, or her watch stopping at 3 a.m. Those little things, if this were a slasher, it would feel like patting the body count. And I don't know that it was necessary.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

Yeah, that's fair because I think it feels a little I don't even want to say fan service, because that's not so much it. Is it's more like keeping the viewer suspicious on whether what Father Moore is saying is true about her involvement in this case means that she's gonna be possessed next, which would completely pivot this movie into another genre altogether, like making a very swift write and would put it potentially in the conjuring three side of things. Again, not so much a bad thing, but I think it would pivot the film altogether, right? So yeah, I I struggle thinking of a worse part because we've talked a little bit about the disappointments, you know, what there could have been a little bit more of here and there. Maybe for me it it really could have been that it could have been just a slight bit scarier. I don't know. I think that although the my favorite scene and that college scene provides a lot of terrifying moments, especially when she's like absolutely losing it in her room with the bugs and the scratching on the walls, etc., I think I would have liked a little bit more of that in the ending in particular, because what's strange is that I remember so much of the ending being in this setting. But ultimately on the rewatch, I'm like, there's nothing really too crazy that's happening here. And it feels like it gets watered down even more so with the conclusion of the case, et cetera. Like it seems logical, right? But somehow it's like, how did we get a little bit of rainbows and butterflies out of this, too, that didn't quite feel like it was necessary. But it wouldn't stop me from re-watching the movie. I think that now that I've re-watched it, I would definitely entertain it again. Maybe it'd be like a compilation if we could make a list of any other law horror films out there. That'd be kind of cool. But I definitely re-watch it. It's just now that I know it's not as scary as I remember it as a teen, I can go into it a little bit more, like, okay, absorb the legality a little bit. Think like I'm watching a weird law and order Halloween episode.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Yeah, you know, I realize that I dated multiple people in the legal profession and helped a few through law school. And now in retrospect, my biggest regret isn't making them watch this fucking movie and finding all the torts issues. Like that's I I want to re-watch this movie with someone in the legal profession to really dig into this. This is such an easy one to re-watch, too. Again, it has that perfect balance of like a filler movie in the spooky season. Sean, you mentioned all Hollow Z. That's great. Something I completely forgot about. But what a great time to have on as a compromise pick. A movie with a very compromise-heavy ending, as a compromise pick for when you want to watch a horror movie, but someone right next to you says, uh-uh, none of that shit over here.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Yeah. It's a compromise. If you want to watch a horror movie, but your partner's just into law and order. You know. I would say for me, I I mean I've seen this one probably like four times now, I would say at this point. And it has felt enjoyable each time I've watched it. Granted, I feel like I've given it a healthy amount of space between each watch, because it's definitely been years since I watched it before watching it for the podcast. But I gotta say, like, I definitely think it has that rewatch value for sure. I think if you like, you know, we're making we're we're kind of like made fun of the compromise, but it is true. Like, if you're just not like wanting to commit to like something like super, super crazy, but you still want that vibe, you're gonna get a little bit of the exorcism, you're gonna get a little bit of the spookiness, you might have a couple moments that give you the shivers, but you're also gonna get a really kind of intriguing and engaging dialogue through the courtrooms and and the character developments and things in this movie. So it's definitely got rewatch value. It's definitely got it.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Well, I can't wait for one to get into the actual events that inspired this film, but for now, there you have it, folks. The exorcism of Emily Rose from 2005 has earned a universal slash. And while we certainly had a robust discussion, the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Yeah, if you want to find out what's on the other side, consider showing a little faith and visit patreon.com slash hacker slash. This is really where you can enjoy even more of the show, including the bonus content with early access. You can check out extended episodes with our B-sides, which are free sides for the spooky season. You can get into some movie nominations and of course partake in some live shows.

SPEAKER_02 53:05

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, if you're not sure, then you are one.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Withdrawn, no further questions.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

We obviously have this story was based on true events in so many different horror movies, but this one in particular is devastating because no matter how you look at it, there's still a young woman who died at the uh really in her early 20s. Gone long before she should have been.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

Way early on, way early on, and I think there's this interesting factor, like when you actually because you know, I don't know about you guys, but like when I watch like a movie that's based on true events, or even like Binks, you were talking about the fourth kind, watching that recently, and then being like, is this true? And it wasn't, right? There's just certain things that I watch, and I'm like, I've got to immediately look this up. And and if I know that it's based on true events, like I'm immediately looking it up to see like how true was this movie, right? Let me really look into this. And like with the fourth kind, I was also searching. I was like, was this shit fucking legit? Like, what the fuck happened? It really had me questioning that shit. But yeah, when you look at what's happening with this movie and you look up the case for Annalise, and it's just heartbreaking. There are they did actually a really good job. Like, obviously, there's gonna be the Hollywood dramatizing of certain events, and they gotta make it a cohesive movie and all this different shit. But like they did a good job when you look at the story as a whole and you take the snippets of events that did happen, they did a good job depicting it in the movie, I feel like.

SPEAKER_04 54:57

Listen, I'm ready to learn because I figured, let me not do exactly that on this rewatch and learn from the two of you that absolutely love doing it, because I typically would. And after Fourth Kind, I was like, wait a second, something about this seems a little bit too cheesy. Maybe this isn't real. And then I looked it up and obviously it was not. The gag's on me. But nonetheless, I was like, Well, I'm gonna just in case, I'm not gonna look it up. I feel like we're gonna talk about it, so I'm not gonna say anything, I'm not gonna Google it, so I'm prepared. But at this point, everyone is banking on that based on a true story, and it could literally be one small little moment.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

Right. All right, well, hey, let's go through it. So, Sean, I think I got a bit of an overview of a timeline here. Maybe you can pepper in the details as you got them. But Annalise, she was born in 1952, deeply Roman Catholic upbringing. So, you know, already great soil for some demonic shit. At the age of 16, she begins having seizures and then she's diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

I think that's really interesting. Is like this movie obviously depicts like that, you know, and uh Emily Rose as depicting Annalise, right, is like developing like this possession while on campus, right? And then shit just hits the fan. Whereas like this was actually happening with Annalise like years for years at the age of 16, like you said, starting in class with like a black, like this like epileptic blackout, whatever, and then it just goes on for like well, maybe it didn't happen for a little while, but like we're talking five, six, seven plus years, right? Before like shit really goes down.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

She ends up also being diagnosed with depression, bipolar disorder, and psychosis and hallucinations. So just about anything you could throw at this girl, she's got sounds like it sounds like we don't believe women again. Earlier medicine, earlier medicine. This is only in the well, she ends up passing away in the 70s, but still. So she gets psychiatric treatment before resulting to any or resorting to any exorcisms whatsoever. So in this case, she takes anti-convulsant and antipsychotic medications over the course of several years, and despite that, her symptoms continue to worsen. So she still has hallucinations, she still hears voices, she still refuses religious objects, etc.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

Yeah, it's really interesting. Obviously, these are the points right here that divide the people, right? There's gonna be people are like, well, you know, maybe it was misdiagnosed, maybe they had her on the wrong medication, maybe it was that, and then there's the other people. Well, see, you see, like it that shit wasn't working, so it had to be demonic, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Yeah, what it really comes down to here is proper troubleshooting. You already tried the unplug and plug it back in. Now you're going least invasive to most invasive. I think demonic possession is probably the most invasive, right? So basically the family's like, okay, well, we tried all this medical shit and ain't working. Must be demons. So the family becomes convinced on demonic possession after all those medical options are exhausted. They sought help from the church, they eventually get permission from a bishop, and over the course of 10 months or so, she undergoes 67 exorcism sessions.

unknown 58:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

Sometimes weekly seven, sometimes weekly, lasting hours long each.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

That's insane, actually, to think about.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

Mm-hmm. Okay, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

Because that's that's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

The medication wasn't working, but also the exorcisms weren't working.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

It also seems like let's just think about this. I guess years, right? So 16 age. We can do the math on her age. 23. 16 to this, I doubt you tried any specific medication consistently and long enough to allow for the same amount of sample size as you had of 67 exorcisms.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

Completely agree. I completely agree. Because at the same time, it's also like, I don't know, maybe after 15 exorcisms, you're like, maybe this isn't working.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

Yeah, and like this movie, she has six voices that comes out, one of which is Hitler.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Yeah, Hitler's one of the demons inside of her. The movie doesn't mention Hitler, right? The movie like subs some of them for like Belial and whatever, but when I heard Adolf Hitler when I was looking into it, I was like, really? Adolf's down there, uh demoning it up and exercising some motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Yeah, so here's the thing, and Sean, I know that you listen to the tapes. I also listen to the tapes. Growling, raspy, yelling, etc. But there is one specific weird thing about this. One of the names that she names is a former figure in the church, in her local church, who was exiled from the church from bad behavior. It was so long ago that there's no way that she should have known about that name.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

Yeah. But you never know, like these devout Catholics, like these hardcore Catholics, you never know what kind of weird shit they're like teaching their kids or reading up on, or who knows. But I get it. Like that it is weird. Like the I get the tones, I get what you're saying. Like the tones don't seem that distinct for six different tones. So I'm right there with you. But some of the facts that maybe she shouldn't have known, or even some of the language she's speaking, you know what I mean? I think is a little bit interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:45

Yeah, well, because I mean I guess the way that they explain maybe that, or they change it, obviously, for the movie because it's American, is that she had a class or something. They mentioned that she took like a class that would maybe explain that perhaps she would know XYZ language, but I did, I didn't do any research, but I did listen to the small bit where they play the tapes, and I was like, Well, yeah, this does sound a lot of growling. Although I guess I I didn't hear what she sounded normally like, so I don't know if she could even go that low with her voice typically.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

Well, but there is a clip where you can hear her normal voice, and then you can hear what it sounds like over these six different voices, but it all sounds very similar to me. Like she has a very like nice, pretty, light voice. She sounds super sweet. This poor, poor woman. But then when you get into the growling and everything, it just all honestly, it really all sounded identical to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

But it there was like slight differences, maybe, but but okay, so looking this up, it does show that she was speaking Latin and Aramic. So she was doing a couple of different languages in there for sure. But it was a we got, I mean, we did kind of get like this really great like history lesson through those audio tapes, right? Because you're mentioning that priest from the 16th century, we mentioned Adolf Hitler, she like throws out Nero from the Roman Empire, right? We got Judas, the Apostle of Jesus, right? We got Cain, you got all kinds of shit going on, and then Lucifer himself, you know. Man, it's like a party up in there.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:21

Yeah, yeah, and so much of a party that it's okay, it it's it's fucking terrible. And I I think about this, and like you sometimes you think about some of these things, and it's like, okay, it might be the be funny little to laugh at, but this poor girl, regardless of what she's experiencing, what is very real that ultimately kills her, she stops eating and she becomes severely malnourished and dehydrated. And those two things are what kill her finally in 1976. And that is just devastating. When you think about how little she weighed at the end of her life, it's just terrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

Under a hundred pounds or some shit, like really wild. I think it also she was at some point just like constantly like doing like 400 squats a day, like just doing weird movements like that. She would hide under the table and just bark for hours and days, like weird shit. She was like dropping to her knees to pray, like continuously to the point where she broke her fucking kneecaps and tore like ligaments in her knees or legs or whatever, and apparently wasn't phased. Obviously, we were not there to verify that fact, but as the story goes or as the depiction goes, whoever documented that was like, that's crazy, just to think about. You know what I mean? Like all the shit that she did put herself through, whether it was demonic or psychosis or whatever it was, like crazy, crazy, crazy shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

Yeah, and it's also interesting because they say that obviously she weighed so little, but she seemed to possess extreme strength when she was trying to be restrained.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Well, when you got six fucking people inside of you, you gotta have a lot of strength. I'm just looking at this, I'm sorry, I'm just going back to this list of the six, you know, and I'm just thinking, I I'm not trying to make a joke of this. I know it's been a long time, so maybe we have some room to do it. I do feel bad for her at actual death, so I don't want that to go down as like me making fun of her death, but I'm looking at this list of six, and I'm like, this is easily a South Park episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

It I mean, when you really think about it, it's like maybe like the Mount Rushmore. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

Like I'm looking at these characters, and for South Park can fuck with this. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

Well, now I'm just thinking of Carmen's voice just talking on this episode, just talking about it. That's crazy. No, that's really insane. I honestly feel like even more reason why I wish the family was a bit more of a central figure in this movie somehow, because that's gotta be hard on them, obviously, to witness. But on the other hand, since I'm not a part of the family, I can't speak to this, and I'm not a parent, and et cetera, et cetera. So what do I know? But I just can't help but feel like, man, what? What are you allowing? What are you allowing to happen? What do you do? But it is helplessness, right? Especially in the 50s, 60s, like they don't have the technology, they certainly don't have the stigma of like going and seeking care, mental health, all of those things don't exist, especially in those early days, right? As much as it would now, but it's just it's tough. It's a tough situation to be in.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Well, speaking of the parents, her parents and the two priests who performed the exorcisms were convicted of negligent homicide.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

Right, right. So that's where I was like, This is where I feel like the movie kind of made it like it kind of makes you debate a little bit, right? Because in in the actual in this actual event, like everyone got charged, right? You know what I mean? So like that makes a little bit. Bit more sense than what happened in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

But the prosecutors did say the parents have suffered enough, so they're kind of dismissed. But the priests were absolutely sentenced to six months in jail, which were later suspended. And then the they had like three years probation, fines, legal costs, etc.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:24

Okay. Well, that makes more sense. That I I mean, okay. I guess maybe don't include it in for the movie because that would make it maybe 15 minutes longer. I don't know. Like that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

But I whatever. I think it does beg the question though. You're going through all this, and could you imagine a point where you are suffering so much medically that you feel like medical treatment stops being enough? And is there ever a point where you'd be like, maybe we're on the end of the spectrum that involves exorcism? Like, what would it take for it for you to get to a point where you think, fuck, maybe I am possessed. If I'm floating off my bed.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

Yeah, I mean that's a I guess that's you know that's a that's a fair thing. But but that you know, you can you can feel like you're floating, you know what I mean, and not actually be floating. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:23

Yeah, that's why I'm terrified of insidious astral projection, don't get me started. However, like if there was footage of me floating or someone witnessed me floating, someone called a church right away, all speed doll, Ed Lorine Warner dead, so can't use them anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

Yeah, it is it is an interesting subject because you know, if you think about it, there are cases where people are like terminally ill, right? And they decide that they no longer want to take part in any like medical, whatever, hospital, whatever, and they just want to go home and they want to do their thing, and they just want to do whatever the fuck they want to do. And I guess it's their choice at that point, right? They can make that choice. But it's just a it is very interesting, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

Do you think there's hospice for demonic possession?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

And if there is, they don't get paid enough. But you know what? That's a great question that I should probably Google and put the zip code of Hylia. Because if there's gonna be one, oh Lord, it's here. I can promise you that. And you know what? Actually, I'll take it a step further and say that I know the difference between, well, I've never seen demonic possession, but I've certainly seen the Saint one and looks a little different. Definitely looks a little different. Wait, what is it? But well, I mean, they don't look like they're not spewing like scary things, but they definitely are dancing a lot, that's for sure. I guess. Yeah, they they dance, they dance a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:57

Why am I feeling like I'm just now picturing like one of those like crazed, like southern dudes that is like, praise Jesus, the Lord is here. The Lord is here. Let me touch you, child. Let me touch you, you'll be cured.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Except like not in English. They're speaking like the language of the religion, right? And all that. So I certainly don't know what the hell they're saying. But there's lots of dancing and a lot of that kind of situation going on. Loud music, you can hear it. Come on by, come on by, you'll hear it out in the streets. Not specifically where I live, but I know the locations. Interesting. It's just a little bit of everything, but not demonic possessions, hopefully, because that would be a little a step too much for me.