415: Black Phone 2 (2025)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

You think it's hot that I talked to Jesus?

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Oh yeah, it'd be even hotter if you called him Jesus. Spooky season, greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You know that's a date, right? If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

A total joke? A waste of time?

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Or a splash. Totally killer. Unintended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rateing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris. I'm your friendly neighborhood splasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

You think it's hot that I talk to Jesus?

SPEAKER_04 0:50

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. Don't be gross, Jiz Mopper. This week we're back in theaters to check out the sequel to a blumhouse film.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

And don't hang up at the end of this call because you'll also be able to check out our B-side at the end of this episode where we dive into the real horror of phone calls.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Now, when last we visited this franchise, we saw Ethan Hawk portray the grabber, a masked child doctor who lured boys into his van under the guise of a magic trick. He ultimately met his end at the hands of young Finney Blake, a boy he held captive in his basement just as he had so many others. Now in the years since, the Blank family has tried to move forward, but the scars left by the grabber's violence still linger. And now seventeen, Finney struggles with the aftermath of survival, while his sister Gwen begins receiving calls in her dreams from that same black phone from the grabber's basement. And she also has visions that pull her toward the site of a new mystery at a winter camp known as Alpine Lake. This week we're talking about Black Phone 2. What were y'all expecting going into this one?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I was actually just really curious how this was going to go, just coming off of the first one, you know? Did the did the grabber fake his death? Are he still alive somehow? Or did Finney's connection to the other side open up this supernatural door to this fucker? We just don't even know what's going to happen, these possibilities. Either way, I think based on how much I enjoyed the first one and based on the trailer for this one, I was expecting to like this one, but I was worried that they might fumble the ball on the storyline a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah, I think that's super fair because I was a little shocked when they had announced this one. I know that it obviously it's based on a book and I haven't gotten to read it yet, but when they did the sequel, I was really surprised as to where this was gonna go. Would it even be scary? Is it just another like sequel bait? But when I saw the trailer, it honestly surprised me. I think we can all agree that Scott Derrickson has this like brand about him with the grain and his like little VHS or found footage type look. And so I thought that based on the trailer, it'd be like a strong, scary balance between the original black phone and Sinister, perhaps. Maybe it would be something about like a found footage tape thing. Maybe that's a little too sinister leaning, but I just wasn't really sure where this where this was gonna go considering how the previous one ended. I completely agree with you, Sean. So it was really hard for me to guess where this could be going for sure. And I just really hope that it would be a good sequel, though, because I really do love black phone a lot and I just didn't want it to be a cash grab.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Yeah, I was concerned when this first got announced because my initial thought was, who asked for this? Do we need this? And I don't say that to mean I wouldn't want more of the grabber, I wouldn't want more of Finny Story, but in all reality, the black phone was just such a well-done movie, and I thought, hey, let's just quit while we're ahead. Let's sleeping dogs lie because odds are it might get messed up along the way. So when I walked into this, I remained open, but not overly optimistic. My expectations weren't super high. I was really curious to see how they were going to actually try to bring back the grabber, but let me tell you, from the moment that this movie began, I was locked in. Now, despite being apprehensive and having doubts about whether or not we really needed this movie, I found that it for me it justified its existence even with just a few minutes in. And we're introduced to Finney and Gwen in ways that make it clear that the events of the first film left really deep scars. And that made this way more compelling. Because regardless of the framework for the movie and how it was going to be set up, I was like, okay, I care about these people, and now I am invested in seeing their story, and I'm invested in seeing how they've kept on keeping on. That in itself is exactly where the heartbeat of this movie lies. It's in that family dynamic. So I was absolutely captivated the entire time I was watching this thing, which apparently is a little bit uh of a different take, apparently. I was surprised to see how many people have just been shit talking this movie.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yes, I'm I'm right there with you. I'm really surprised. I had a friend who had gotten an early screening for this, and she told me, hey, heads up, it starts very slow, but you know, it picks up eventually. And she's a diehard black phone fan. I mean, this is what got her into horror. She's never really been into scary films and stuff, you know. So coming from her, I was like, damn, really, I'm surprised. But for me, I sat literally one row away from the screen. Okay. My screening was so packed, I had no seats available. So I was really worried that just the theater experience alone was going to ruin this film for me. But I was hooked. I thought, man, what is she talking about? I mean, valid, sure, but I actually liked the exposition. I liked the buildup. We're unpacking these characters, and more particularly, it's the fact that they surprised me with it not being really centered on Finny, but now it's Gwen, you know, we're we're we're taking a pivot and a turn on who we're really exploring and the family dynamic from a different perspective. And I thought that was fun. I thought, you know, I was really hooked. And granted, I think in general, maybe there were some beats that you could predict. And I think the overall blueprint is common and I don't want to say unoriginal, but once you kind of know what the movie's about and where it's going, maybe you can predict XYZ, but the execution was still really visually appealing and fun. Sound design was great, soundtrack was great, so many other components that I was really surprised to hear that maybe not just one person, because that's a one-off, right? One-off opinion, but that a lot of people maybe thought this was a little bit slow-paced.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, there are a lot of mixed feelings about this movie, from what you can tell. Just even if you just go look up any reviews, you're gonna see a lot of mixed emotions, a lot of mixed thoughts. And it is very interesting. And I'm right there with you. I think that this story kind of had you hooked from the get-go, and there really is a lot going on in this movie. There's, you know, we're talking about the evolution of Finney and Gwen and their story, right? And how you know, you some could argue that it does maybe start off slow, but it's really because we're just diving into these characters, which we'll dive into later, and like where that what they've been doing and and how they are years after the events of the first one, right? So we're really building here, we're building this foundation of this, you know, psychological trauma. And you know what? There is a lot of 80s slasher vibes in this one. For for a movie that doesn't necessarily feel like a genuine slasher, you get some Friday the 13th vibes in this movie, you get some Freddie Krueger vibes in this movie, but it wasn't all just slashers. This one also felt a little true crimy as well. So it was pretty interesting, the mix of stuff that really made for an engaging watch, to be honest with you. And if you like all those things, you're gonna be pretty interested in this film. The real question is why the hell are all of these kids fighting all the fucking time? Because listen, I I don't know, maybe this is just the decade that I wasn't in school, but I didn't feel like there's fights in school, but like these kids are just fucking throwing punches left and right at each other. Poor kids, man. What a way to grow up.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

Listen, man, that was the 80s. We had to you know get cut up.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Fight or die, that's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

Yeah, genuinely. Listen, man, this was such an interesting experience for me. And I think it was largely because of a few different things. I think to maybe what some folks are saying, it feels like there's a little bit of comedy that's trying to be forced into this movie. I find that there are moments that felt a little funnier than the past movie, but even with that, I found that the characters were super charming, so I wasn't mad at it at all. The biggest thing for me was not being shocked by where the plot went. I want to be very clear here. When you realize what's happening, it makes complete sense. I'm not saying it's gonna be the most original thing, but I was impressed by how rich the characters felt. And that felt like what really needed to win in this movie to make you give a damn about what's happening. The story absolutely feels super grounded in their trauma, their love, their need for closure. And we get this moment where Finney and Gwen are just given real room to breathe as characters, to evolve as people.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah. Listen, the the characters I'm right there with you, and for me it was really Mason Thames and Madeline McGraw, right? Like Finney and Gwen together, and granted, great performances in the first one, right? Like we know this, but like in this one, the evolution of their characters and the evolution of the chemistry that they had together while making this film really created some amazing moments. And so that was really what took me by surprise is like how well they carried this film, and not to say that no detriment to any of the other characters, like there's no bad per se acting in this one, but these two kids really carried this film on their backs and they did a freaking incredible job. They created some amazing moments, there was some truly emotional moments. There was the funny banter that I think was needed in the movie that just added some really fun times. And you know, again, granted, we get a bit of that in the first one, but it really shined through in this one. They truly had great chemistry.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

I agree. And I think what impressed me and and really surprised me the most was that we're also getting a film where we get to explore the aftermath of a very traumatic, you know, instance for both of these kids a few years after. And I don't know about both of you, but I feel like if I were to think of sequels with that same shell, right, of a story, it always feels like that, those characters, those kids, we see them several decades after the fact. The first example that comes to mind right now is it and it chapter two, right? We see them decades later. But here it felt very different at the very least. I like I agree with you, Chris. I don't want to say unoriginal, but you know, a lot of things, sure. You you know the beats and and what's gonna happen next to an extent. But what I really was impressed by was how they're exploring these characters. We kind of see them in these different reactions and how they play off of one another in the scenarios that you expect. And when we see them just years, very few years after what's happened to them, that's what I think is exciting. Because yeah, I may know what's gonna happen next, but we're talking about a 17, 18-year-old at this point. We're not talking about what a 35-year-old or a 40-year-old would do in that instance. And it's funny, we uh, you know, in an episode coming out soon where we talked about Halloween, you know, H2O 20 years later, and very similarly PTSD and what that looks like years later down the road. And I thought that this was really nice to kind of see not only just from the person that lived it, but the people that had to live it alongside them too.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Yeah, this is a very different take on that, right? With H2O, we have a set a boy turning 17 and being like, Mom, mom, why can't you let me go to U70? And she is the one harboring this, and then you see it flipped A about a decade earlier, and from a completely different dynamic, and honestly, just speaks to just speaks to the volumes of wow, therapy is fucking great. And Finney deserved help. Finney deserved a way to process everything that he experienced. But when you grow up in a household that sweeps everything under the rug and you try to just move on with the best of intentions, trying to just you know carry on with the rest of your life, the ripple effects from that are devastating. And even if it doesn't appear to be devastating outwardly, it is certainly devastating inwardly. And I think that is the interesting part of this movie that makes it even more tense. Now, I didn't find this scary at all, just to be clear. But what I did appreciate is the level of danger that you see these characters in, and honestly, some ghostly characters that we encounter, just like in the black phone, it creates a lot of discomfort. And I felt concerned from a place of empathy, not from a place of okay, a bunch of jump scares are trying to really get me in a horror movie. I think it's also something to be said that Ethan Hawke has such a distinct fucking voice for the grabber that just absolutely does it. Absolutely does it. He is a spooky van man.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

A spooky van.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

He is the person you got warned. Yeah, he is the poor person that your mom was warning you about.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

For sure. 100%. This is this is where the stranger danger came from. Right here. The balloons, the everything, you know? You gotta watch out for the stranger van man. It I do think though, it is more frightening than the first one. I will give it that. Like I do think that, because the first one for me, because I watched the first one going into this one just to kind of prep for it, and I do think the first one definitely feels there, there's a lot of eeriness in that one, there's a lot of tension, but it's really centered on you know Finney's struggles within the room. You know what I mean? Again, not a lot of jump scares or anything in that one. And when you go into this one, you still carry on that tension and suspense building, right? You've got the true crimy feel. It doesn't feel like your run-of-the-mill horror movie where it's just trying to get you with jump scares and things that'll just get reactions out of you. It definitely builds more on that, but this one does give you more of those graphic images. It does give you more of those ghostly fucking scenes, right? That I think builds more terror than it would even in the first one. So for me, this one I I would say if I had to compare the two, would be more frightening than the first one, but it has it has more of the horror elements, it has some of that graphic imagery, it creates some really great moments. But you know, overall, it's true. This this film does a better job at building suspense than anything.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Yeah, I think that if you were to imagine going to a winter camp, already that sounds pretty frightening to me.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Who goes to winter camp? You know, is that even a thing?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Apparently, maybe. I don't know. I don't doubt it, but I will say that that's terrifying. That's terrifying because I'm also picturing obviously the winter camp, but obviously in the dark, right? We're talking in the forest, we're talking snow. I don't know. All of that sounds very sus and terrifying to me personally. And then we add the paranormal to it all, which sure I love, but I'm that respect. And so when we've got that combination of things, I don't really fuck with it. I think it's uh definitely not my jam. But interesting that you say that though, because despite it not being my jam, I think that black phone, it's a different type of terror. It's the real stuff, you know, like that that's real life to an extent. I'm not talking the ghost of it all, right? But the kidnapping of it all. And sure, that can still be said about the second film, but there's a little bit we're we're changing focus here, just a smidge. And there's still some bits and pieces that will intimidate you and make it tense. But that's where I go back to, you know, when making this sequel and what makes it stand out, and not all that original, but if I had to put it a percentage, right? I would say it's a good 60, maybe 58, 60%. I'm gonna give it a bit more credit here because I think if I wanna say most of the sequels that we've been seeing and like three and fourth films, installments, and all that, it's very hit or miss. You know, you're rolling dice, and most of the time you're not hitting the mark. You're not getting that that check. So I just feel like with this one, it was entertaining. It dared to kind of give us something that maybe we could expect, but explore it with differently with its characters, new setting, you know, still within the paranormal realm, have a bit more of its bare bones. And sure, it's maybe not as scary as the first one, to me personally, but I think that there's still something worth exploring. It's still a different kind of terror that makes it original to an extent.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

Yeah, it's interesting because this movie takes a lot of things that are super familiar and it bakes it into a movie that feels distinct and different from its predecessor, but while playing by the rules of its predecessor. And that is what I think is really, really interesting because it honors the original's tone while also evolving it at the same time. It we really are on the Charmander to Charizard pipeline here. And I'm I'm serious. Like I genuinely was so concerned. How the hell are we bringing back the grabber? Yeah. Because if he's undead, ugh, yuck. Right. But I won't spoil anything, but I will say that the return of the grabber, it feels logical and it doesn't feel like a cheap resurrection, but it feels like an extension of the rules that the first movie sets up. I'm mad at myself for not even thinking about it or considering it, and I think it reinterprets the supernatural through a new lens without betraying what came before it. But I will say, you know, we have in our live chat right now, Miki had a great comment, Black phone two, Sinister on Ice. Just to be clear, black phone two, black phone two is if you had Blackphone, Sinister, Stranger Things, Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, all put together in a blender, and then that liquid was used to form a baby. Yeah, that's what this movie is. But I'm not mad at it.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

No, not mad at it. No, for sure. One, we love a good Pokemon reference, you know? That's that's incredible. But yeah, here's the thing. I I I 100% agree with you. I know that there is gonna be and there already is a lot of people that are gonna be talking about how this movie really ripped off some famous horror movies of the past, right? More blatantly, the nightmare in Elm Street of it all. There's a lot of talks, there's a lot of rumblings about that already on the interwebs, right? There, it's already happening, folks. But honestly, I don't really feel that way. The influence is definitely there. It's heavy in some areas for sure, but I really liked the blend of all of the different aspects of the inspiration that this movie was pulling from, and it made for a really entertaining story overall, right? Like Chris, you said it, there's all these different vibes that you're pulling from, but it really kind of blends them all together, makes it its own thing while still finding a way to follow its own rules and carry on their story without being completely absurd. So it you gotta give it credit. You got to.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

You absolutely do, but I think part of the reason why it gets so much credit is for its ending. Because listen, oof, I will admit that I cried. I did it because by the time the credits rolled, genuinely I just felt this feeling of catharsis, and it wasn't because I felt manipulated or had, but because the movie for me felt like it earned that emotion, and for me, the ending just honestly lands super perfectly. I I it doesn't just resolve the plot for better or worse, because I'm not saying that you get a happy ending and that anyone necessarily has a happy ending here, but it gives emotional closure to some characters and to the audience. On the one hand, usually in a horror movie, you're so focused on survival and making it to dawn, but in this, it's what's beyond survival. What does life look like now? Where do we go from here? You can't unlearn the things you've learned through the core. Of this experience and it ties together threads from both films in a way that feels final for sure, but still open to interpretation.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, I'd agree because as you were saying that, I'm thinking to myself, it's that age-old question of did we really need the sequel, right? And I think people a lot of people feel that way when they're watching a movie, when they're reading a book, what have you, right? But you kind of, no matter whether that's true or not, you kind of always do ask yourself, or rather, even definitely imagine what would life look like after? And if we do decide to explore that, well then, like we said earlier, you better do it right and really give these people the justice and the closure that the characters deserve. And I think that's definitely what we get here. Again, predictable to an extent, sure. But I feel like despite its cheesiness and its emotional and you know, it's it's cuteness and sadness, et cetera, all a wave of emotions, I think that it really does hit the mark. It lands the plane, like we like to say sometimes. And I think that it didn't cheapen out, which is what you usually would find with a lot of these sequels. If they've decided to make a sequel already, they kind of usually, because it's big studios, they kind of open up a door just a smidge, just to see if they can continue that cash crap, continue to make that mark. And I'm not saying that that's not the case here, folks. But what I am saying is that at the very least, it feels at least to me, like a far less obvious to an extent. Like if they do make that decision, I think that it's going to look very different than what we've got already. Let's leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah. Let's let's definitely not try to do a third one. That would probably be the most ideal situation for this uh one and two, let's make it a one and done two and done situation, right? Let's just not carry this on any further. I don't think it needs it. I think the ending wrapped it up really well. The ending has a lot going on as well, you know, just the ending alone from the rest of the movie. There's a lot going on in just the ending. And listen, there's some good, there's some bad with the ending. The ending's not perfect by any means. There's a lot of great things that happen. I think there are like maybe one or two really small details, really small choices that I think if we were going to pull out like where the the movie suffered the most, there's just a couple of details in there that just didn't feel 100% needed. But there's a lot of good as well. And it even has some happy feels that really try to pull on your heartstrings, so much so that Ari actually cried at the end of this movie. You know what I mean? And so if it could do that for the audience, I think you gotta say successful ending for sure, you know?

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Hell yeah. Ari's my girl. Look at us crying like a bunch of babies in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

It's so funny.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Yeah, well, I can't wait to see how all this translates to a score. Hopefully, it fares better with us than it did on the internet. Before we get there though, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah, look, the gore was definitely amplified in this one in comparison to the first one. We get more shots of more kills, we get more blood, and overall more practical effects, mixed with some really decent CGI moments. And even though a lot of the gore was shown through those grainy filters, it almost added texture to the gore without overdoing the gore. And there were still a couple of moments that felt pretty severe. So this one does take its toll, much like a collect call from a payphone, earning itself a medium gore score, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

PETA is not calling this black phone. We're all good. Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Black phone two in 2025. Is it a hack or slash?

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Like I said, I loved Blackphone. Loved it a lot. I thought it was a great film. And I feel like Blackphone 2 definitely builds on its, you know, on its foundation, right? Although it felt a little predictable at its core, I still found it to be very entertaining and it has a lot of components that I appreciated. I've grown to be a Scott Derrickson fan more than I realized. I've seen a couple more of his things lately. And you can definitely tell when you're watching a Scott Derrickson film, like I said, they all feel and certainly look the same. But honestly, he's very good at building tension despite that. And this is just another entry in his artistry, in his filmography, where he builds these kinds of eerie grain, you're not sure what you're looking at. It almost feels like it's a real look at something that you shouldn't be looking at. I I love it and I've grown to appreciate it a lot. But I also think that centering this film on Gwen's perspective and showing Finny grappling with PTSD felt really authentic. I think that this easily could have been cheapened and really like cheesy and campy with its dialogue, but the humor felt right. Gwen was hilarious in the first one. And I expected the same the second. I expected that with a mix of the PTSD for sure, but she just didn't lose herself despite the years in between, despite the money from the studio, right? And I felt the same about Finny too. I think that these characters earned their emotional moments, and it didn't feel like it was overplayed or overdone. And though I think that I could kind of tell where this was going, there were certainly some moments that got me a little bit that I felt tense, that I was a little impressed by. You know, Sean mentioned the gore of it all. It's like it's not too intense, but enough for me personally. And there was like a this true crime bit that I really didn't anticipate and I really appreciated. But we also got to talk about the grabber as an entity and as a villain. I think no matter what, he doesn't get enough flowers and doesn't get enough respect. Ethan Hawk is a very terrifying villain. The grabber is a very terrifying entity that very much could walk around right now. Sorry to scare you, folks. And I think that this movie continued to kind of give that air and reignite the grabber in horror, which I'm always here for. I want respect on that name, you know? So I'd say that it's unfortunate that the internet's feeling maybe some other type of way, but I really do hope that people are kind of on my side on this because although, sure, it wasn't blackphone and it wasn't out of this world, I think that this was actually a really good sequel for what it could have been. And most certainly a great double feature. So don't take it so insanely serious, folks. I think it's really fun. It's great. You'll get some plenty of emotions out of it. Treat yourself to a double feature and enjoy the ride, because for me, this one was definitely a slash.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Well, listen, the internet may be saying one thing, but the box office is saying another because this one is doing very, very well in the box office. It's already more than made its money back in its opening weekend, so I think it's doing just well enough. And like I said at the start of this episode, I was genuinely curious how this one was going to carry itself on. Were they gonna try and pull a fast one on us, or were they gonna show Finny somehow cracking open that supernatural hotline to hell? We're not sure. Either way, the receiver is off the hook, and this sequel definitely does answer the call. And what I loved about Blackphone 2 is how it dials up all of the elements that worked in the first film, and it blends slasher energy with the true crime tension, the suspense, and even some supernatural chills into something that does feel part Jason, part Freddy, but totally its own thing. And it fucking truly feels like it is paying homage to AD Slashers in a way in its own right, which is really, really great to see. And the atmosphere is haunting in this movie. The cinematography captures isolation and dread with these gorgeous, wide, open landscapes that make you really feel the character's loneliness. Even those grainy dream sequences that we're talking about give off that found footage texture, letting the movie get creative with its gore without overdoing it, right? It's just really, really fantastic. And of course, you know, we've touched on it already, Finney and Gwen's Bond still carries the heart of this story, and the film does a great job showing the character development that has happened since the events of the last film. It doesn't shy away from the trauma. There are some really emotional moments that pull on your heartstrings. So whether you're into those 80s slashers, whether you're into true crime, murder mysteries, or some good old-fashioned supernatural spookiness, this one has got something for you, I promise. And the black phone rings even louder this time, and when that phone starts ringing again, it's impossible not to pick up. So don't hang up because this one's a slash.

SPEAKER_04 31:12

Wow, you know, I was just thinking and reflecting for a moment. Is there a more perfect movie for all three of us to come together on? Because when you think about it, we got the paranormal spooky shit with the ghosts. We have the slasher vibes with me, and then just for you, Sean, we have those skin marink grainy dream sequences.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

That's great. That's great. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

Listen, yeah, I walked in skeptical. I walked in maybe open but not optimistic, and I left this movie moved. It's a rare sequel that expands its world. This one deepens its emotional core and it reminds you why the first movie worked in the first place. And I think that is such a feat for a sequel to do, especially when it's not a sequel that felt like it was baited or even remotely necessary. This one is absolutely an easy slash. And with that, Blackphone 2 from 2025 has earned a universal slash. Now you can catch this movie in theaters right now, but if you're listening to this episode, post It's The Africa Run. Check the link in the show notes to see where you can find it right now, and stick around for the second half so we can dive into those spoilers. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Welcome all you hacker splashers! Welcome to the Outlast Youth Camp, the only youth camp program that preps you for the inevitable trauma of surviving a splasher movie. Whether you're facing off against a masked machete enthusiast, a phone that won't stop ringing from the afterlife, or just trying to keep those dang kids from sneaking off to the boathouse again, the Outlast Youth Camp has your back and your escape route. Here's what you'll learn in the signature free trauma training intensive. Defend Screaming 101 because volume is your best weapon. Map reading for the Doom. Learn to actually leave camp before it's too late. Phone Etiquette with the Dead, brought to you by our friends at Blackphone 2, where ignoring the call just makes things worse. The Art of Subtle Side Eye, for when the new counselor says, Let's split up. And if you act now, you'll receive a free Final Girl starter kit featuring one bloodstain-resistant hoodie, a conveniently dropped flashlight, and a complimentary therapy voucher for your inevitable sequel. So before you pack your bug spray and your moral comfort, make sure you enroll at the Outlast Youth Camp, where our motto is, we can't promise you'll survive, but you'll die trying responsibly. Let's do it because this is an interesting one, because this film does what a lot of horror films don't do, I would say, because we we don't really get any actual kills that take place within the film's current timeline per se. And don't get me wrong, we do get five kills in this movie, but we are actually unraveling the mystery behind the first three kills as the story unfolds, because they were from long ago, right? And then we get to actually see the death of Finney and Gwen's mom in this one, but again, a kill technically from the past, and then we get the final kill, but it barely slides into the kill count because again, with the technicalities, the grabber was already dead, so does taking him down again truly count? I don't know, but for the sake of having something to talk about here, we're gonna count all of them on our own technicality. So let's get into them. Which of these kills had your receiver ringing?

SPEAKER_04 35:30

Okay, I would like to say that I think this movie chickened out of actually committing to something. I think we could have killed more people for sure. Let's just I'll talk about that later in the worst part of the movie. But what is also really interesting is it didn't hold back from the ghost kills of the kids. We I feel like did not go that hard in the first film. We saw the aftermath, we saw the ghostly effects, but here getting these dreams that felt more like the sinister snuff films, it genuinely felt like this could have been the prequel for Bagul becoming Bagul. I still feel like the the grabber might be Bagul. Not seriously, I I know it's two different fucking entities, guys. I know, but it feels like he should be. And I want to shout out to the moment that really did this for me, and that was Spike, who in death had his face cut in half with an axe. But in a nightmare, his face slid off from being shut in the middle of a window, and his face was just gurgling and bleeding on the ground during that nightmare, and it was just so good disgusting. Disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

I mean, it was one of the stronger gory elements of this whole film.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Folks, we really have to start tallying this together. We really do, because it's I mean, I know the options are limited, but whether they're limited or they're not, sometimes we just keep having the same kill, but it was the strongest one, so of course, but I thought, I don't know, maybe you'll surprise me. Maybe you'll surprise me. Of course I was the strongest one, the best one. Kid's face was sliced off, and it kept gurgling and talking. I don't even know. I thought I was imagining him saying things actually. Really, in hindsight, I'm like, did he actually say words when I was writing my notes down? And maybe it was my imagination running frickin' wild because in general, I have to agree, the gravity of the kills in terms of these kids, right, and what happened to them rather, it seems way more intense. And I didn't actually re-watch Blackphone before this. I wish I had, because maybe I'll have like a better discernment between the two, but it was really brutal. It's really brutal. But I do agree, missed opportunities to do favorite kills, because who I would really would have written down if it actually went through was fucking Barbara. Get out of here, girl.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

I mean, we were hoping, we were hoping when her face was getting smashed into the ice that this was gonna be it for Barbara, right? Like we were all rooting for it. We all wanted it. And you know what? Her bitch ass little husband too. Take him too, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Just were you waiting for the reveal that maybe one of those kids was their son?

SPEAKER_01 38:17

I was.

SPEAKER_04 38:18

And then I realized the math wouldn't have worked.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Yeah, which would have justified the their maybe their saltiness about everything, but because it didn't end up happening, fuck them. You know?

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Okay, I want to hear Sean's favorite kill, and then I want us to do a round of who else could have died.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Well, I mean, here's the thing, and all of the kids, like the way that we focused on their kills was very interesting, right? So I do want to shout out just the blanket fact that we got to unravel their the mystery behind their disappearances or their murders or what have you, right? As the story goes on, and getting to see what happens to Felix getting knifed up and Cal getting hacked up and burned, and Spike with the face split and all that stuff, right? But we're getting like pieces of it, which with each kid as like we're having dreams, which is kind of cool, and then we get to see them like talking from the other side, and we're kind of seeing the aftermath of what they look like. So there's a lot of stuff you're piecing together. So I thought that was really creative and clever. All pretty brutal, but I gotta tell you, the mom was really heartbreaking, super heartbreaking, and it's because of just how it was given to us, you know what I mean, and just how it was given to Gwen, right? Like, I mean, it's just really, really tough just finding out how it happened and uncovering the truth and how she didn't commit suicide, and it was fucking I I know we're gonna switch names now, wild fucking Bill the whole time, because dang, that was just so messed up and for and that the emotion that she had when she saw when it was introduced to seeing that was just out of this world, and so for that we have to say a really great kill for this movie, just because of the emotion behind it.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

That moment gutted me. On one hand, I felt a little uh about it because initially I'm like, well, it's a small world after all. What do you mean she was a young girl at this summer camp, was a counselor, then happens to move, get married, have kids right nearby where this guy lives, then he happens to kill her, then happens to kidnap the son. It felt a little bit like too small world, but fuck all that. No, it it still was so sad, it was so impactful, so devastating. And especially when we get that encounter later on with her father, and she has a moment where she's revealing to both of them what actually happened. So sad.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I've got a little more to say about the coincidence of it all later, but the whole moment and just the sentiment around finding your mom that way, or or your parent having having lost them and not really quite sure how it all went down, you've been told you believe one thing, you know, it it reminded me a lot of like talk to me as an example. Because like if given the opportunity to really be able to find out what actually happened, you know, wouldn't you and in such a despair and such grief, like you don't want to believe that that was the choice that was made potentially, and so you just want to discover if it's anything else. And in this particular scenario, it's like really fucked because he's doing it as a semblance of like this is me being nice. I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna do you the graciousness of telling you exactly what ha actually happened to your mother before I kill you, kill your brother, kill everybody, and it's it's sick, honestly. So I I really loved that it got that dark, even if maybe some of the math didn't quite math in her incorporation to everything.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

For sure. And I think it is interesting to consider oh, he's doing her a kindness. And if you take it as face values, like okay, why would he do her a kindness? But no, this is just more of the suffering that he wants Finney to experience because he wants as much pain to be enacted on this family. Yeah. And what's gonna hurt more than death itself, the reality that this mystery, this thing that has loomed over their family has can get even more painful when you realize that no, she didn't kill herself and she was just another pawn in his game.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Well, actually, a little bit more on that because it just made me think like something I had thought of when that was that whole scene was going on and just her kill in general was uh going back to the black phone when he's wearing the smile mask, he's actually that's when he's his nicest in the first movie. He's actually almost he doesn't like being told that he kidnaps or kills. He that's him being kind that he wears the smile when he gives him the food, when he does like things uh out of the great, you know, goodness of his heart and being so gracious, right? But obviously now that he's dead, he's permanently wearing that smile. It's almost sinister, it's like, you know, hell, quote unquote, right? Like that's his agony, his humanity's gone, like he says. But in that scene, his eyes are being revealed. And I thought to myself, when I was watching it, I'm like, there's a lot of vulnerability in eyes, right? And when you're talking to someone, you can see the emotion in their eyes. And so, although he's permanently with that smile on his face, and then they've twisted it a little bit in this sequel, that was his moment of being kind. And I agree with you, he's not really being kind, but the decision to reveal his eyes in that scene is what I thought was pretty interesting. Cause in all the other He's actually like at one point he rips the bottom half, right? Or he's got the full mask on. But it just reminded me of the first film and the I guess like the production aspect, like why they chose to have his mask in a particular way in certain scenes in the first one, and they continued that on in the second.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

I mean, it definitely was a choice. I absolutely can value the depth in that moment. And I mean, listen, knowing this team behind this movie, I'm confident it was entirely intentional. But there are so many things that really came together to make this a really beautiful movie. Like this was a feast for the eyes. I really, really enjoyed, even just like the landscapes in this movie. But I know I made a joke earlier about the skinmark of it all. But I gotta say, the sinister snuff film Nightmare Dreams, this the Skinnerink moments, they actually were my favorite part. I was a little bit thrown off at first when we first see them. The first thing I thought of was sinister. But when you get this reality that this is just how we show and make very clear that these are dreams, these are nightmares. This is Gwen tapping into this sense that she has.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Yeah, for sure. I'm right there with you. I think the cinematography in the movie is like really what draws you in in every aspect of how it was executed. You know, we've been talking about it. It's the you know, the graininess of those dream sequences or whatever you want to call them, whether it be the graphic kills that are filled with gore leveraging that grainy filter to really get creative with it, or the way that they leverage the other special effects in the CGI to create those supernatural elements, especially like the element where you know Gwen is being attacked, right? Like there's some really great stuff that's happening there. And I think all of that mixed with, like you said, Chris, the landscape, those those hauntingly beautiful shots of the vast landscape of the mountainous terrain, right? I think all of that was so beautifully done that it just keeps your attention the whole time, no matter what is happening on screen, you're just kind of invested in it because it's changing these different tones, and it's just like going from that kind of that sinister kind of vibe to the supernatural, kind of clear kind of vibe to these beautiful landscape shots, and you're just getting all of this together, and it's just going from one thing or to the next, and it was just really beautiful to look at. And so for that, it just you have to shout out the cinematography. It's just well really, really well done and really well executed in this film.

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Yeah, and I want to go even deeper on a couple scenes because there are three that really stand out to me. I'm curious to know if we maybe all agree or have them. But I really want to go in to when Gwen is sleepwalking and she's projecting into this dream and she's having this vision, and we see her confront the grabber for the first time, right? Like this is the moment where she's seeing the kids, all the spooky stuff is happening, the Spike's head gets split in half. And when we see all of this happen, it just is this moment where it clicks for me. Holy shit, it makes so much sense why he's back in the way that he is. Because in one moment he is talking to Finn at the phone booth, and in the other, we have this reality of oh shit, this is why Finn can talk to him. This makes perfect sense. It's almost as if in my brain, because he was human in the first film, I couldn't possibly fathom the idea of like him coming back to life or or uh being a ghost or being supernatural. I couldn't imagine that. But the way that it comes together in this scene, and then we later have uh you know Gwen being tossed around while everyone is just watching what happens, it very much captures the same energy as Tina in A Nightmare on Um Street. It's very much that moment of Tina's boyfriend watching helplessly from the ground while she strung up against the ceiling. And in any moment you think, wow, if this movie would commit, they'd kill Gwen. And she gets it twice.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Yeah, I I think it's definitely one of the stronger scenes. Obviously, Gwen being attacked and all of that stuff is really one of the stronger scenes. But for me, I gotta say, like all of my favorite moments of this film. I mean, there's there's a lot of great moments, but the things that I really were drawn to throughout this film were getting the moments of vulnerability throughout the film. So I really like diving specifically also into Finney's kind of trauma and the little snippets that we get as the movie progresses, right? And so I don't know if it's any one scene particular in particular, but especially it starts with like you get this moment where Finney goes outside to smoke this joint in the beginning, and he has that moment of trauma and that PTSD, whatever you want to call it, where we where he kind of sees the grabber, right? He kind of sees the grabber in the distance and kind of like talks talks himself out of it a little bit, right? Like you're not there, whatever that whatever he said, like there's that first moment of you're like, okay, he's dealing with some shit, right? And as the film progresses, you start to see like even more little snippets, like he's still getting phone calls when we see him answer the ringing pay phone that's out of order, right? And he's and he answers it and he immediately just says, sorry, I can't help you, and he hangs up the phone, right? Like, so he's constantly dealing with this years later. And listen, I'm sorry, dude. You only have to wait like 30 years, and those are gonna be gone, my guy. So hang in there. But it all leads to like that really emotional moment where Finney opens up to his dad and sister about his trauma, and it was one of the most emotionally heartbreaking moments of the entire film, really showing the depth of this kid's acting range. Like, really, it it really that was one of the moments like forget the forget the the scene at the end that made you and Ari cry or talking to the mom and everything, and that's heartbreaking. But this one was the one that almost got me, you know what I mean? Because he's really being vulnerable in that moment and sharing, like he's like telling them, like, I deal with this every single day. You know what I mean? Like, you weren't down there. I was down there. He lived it, he experienced it, he had to get himself out of it. You know what I'm saying? And so that was such a great moment, but it was kind of the progression and the buildup of seeing little snippets of his trauma and him finally having the ability to just get it off his chest and talk and open up to his family in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. That was the emotional moment for me. I think that that release of frustration and trying to get people to finally understand, like I can't just move on from this. It's very difficult. Again, it goes back to why I love seeing this scenario only a few years later, not the decades later, like it seems like we always get, right? And it doesn't happen that that often, but the big, big movies that we remember in horror are those circumstances. So I hope that this one really like lives out and we get to see more films where we're kind of unpack, you know, the the immediate aftermath, I guess. But all emotional things aside, actually, a couple scenes here and there and just like the general levity of the film is what I think is gonna stick with me. And it's just like the the one-liners here and there, and a lot of them, of course, are coming from Gwen, right? But it's really telling of the 80s, like words like choice, saying choice all the time. Listen, if I was a teen watching this, I'm not above it. I probably would start saying choice. Like, I'm like, what is this, Juno all over again? Where we're gonna start creating a language, go back to the 80s and use those that kind of lingo. I'm here for it. I'm absolutely here for it. She delivers some kind of clap back. When she quotes Philippians right back to Barb, I almost fell off my seat. I was like, fuck yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It was just so good. I loved it. And I mean, man, considering how dark the film is otherwise, I was all for the levity and you know, the wit and the humor. So she nailed it in terms of that.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Yeah, I absolutely loved the humor that she brought to it. I don't know that I loved Ernesto. And it was well, I do enjoy Ernesto as a character, let me be clear. But when he talks about her, uh thinking it's hot that she talks to Jesus just like that, and then I did I did think it was funny when he's like, Oh, yeah, it'd be even hotter if you called him Jesus. Yeah, that part got me a little bit, but I was like, okay, this doesn't feel great.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

That bed, that bed scene, by the way, was kind of cringy. The whole dialogue was a little bit cringy. Yeah, great characters, but in that moment it did I wasn't feeling it at all.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

100%. That was giving 80s, though, can we just admit? Like 80s slash, or you said it, you keep saying it.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

Yeah, but what I was feeling, and I'm gonna go back to it again because Binks, I thought of you the second I saw this, was this entire scene where she's spinning in the phone booth and she's just getting wrecked. The blood is flying in that phone booth, then she kneels down, the phone booth explodes, she realizes she has powers in her dreams because it is giving dream warriors.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

100%.

SPEAKER_04 53:55

But it's also giving stranger things. I was like, she is channeling her inner eleven.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Absolutely. That was heavy, heavy 11. I wasn't even gonna say it, but then when you mentioned it earlier, I was like, she's opened the door and I'm walking right through. I how could I not? How could I not love a Stranger Things homage a bit? Okay. I am in this moment in time. First of all, let's start here. Stranger Things is about like 80% influenced by Stephen King. So if we really want to kind of tie that all together, you know, the sun wrote black phone, you're gonna have a little bit of that in here. Stranger Things is about to end. I'm very emotional about it.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

There's a pipeline. There's a pipeline there.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

There's a pipeline, okay. Was it cheesy as fuck? Absolutely, folks. It sure was. I loved it.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

I do know what else is cheesy, mozzarella six from Flanagans, and those are fucking great.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Oh my gosh. I did love that that moment for sure. I am glad though that we didn't like carry that further throughout the film. Like, I'm glad it just didn't turn into Gwen becoming this like dream superhero and just starting to beat the shit out of everything. You know what I mean? I'm glad it was like that, and we got out of that situation, and then it became a little bit like it went kind of back on pace with the rest of the film, and it wasn't like she just took over the whole film, because I think it would have gone south at that point, but it was a good moment for sure. It was definitely a good moment.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Yeah. Now, what does interest me, and I'd love to get your perspectives on this. I think it's through like the logistics of the ending. We've talked at great length about how incredible Gwen was, Finney was. Even the background characters are supportive and funny and they they serve their role. But the logistics for me, I guess it kind of goes back to my thoughts on it follows. I don't think you could ever realistically trap that sex demon, right? I just I just don't. That thing's gonna if it has the ability to fucking become whatever it wants to be and never quit, I think the fucking same here for the grabber, because at some point he just like becomes physical and gets drowned in the lake, even though he's a ethereal being and just you know, it's just there there's something there that uh gives me pause.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Yeah. The logistics are definitely interesting in this one, and that's what kind of gets you a little bit weary because if they do decide to try to carry this further, I just think we're gonna get into some some really muddy waters, and I don't know that it's gonna be successful. I think if we go further with this story, and listen, I would love to be proven wrong if it does happen, but I I have a feeling if we do try to continue on with this story, somehow it's just going to start going downhill. You know what I'm saying? It's gonna get too convoluted.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Listen, it's for lack of a better word, on thin ice, okay, we're skating on thin ice. We're skating on thin ice, and somehow we made it to the other side, but I'm not gonna turn right back around. I'll tell you that. I mean, I just think that the logistics are questionable. And I already said, like, even the math doesn't entirely math too. Well, it's passable. It's passable. On a quick scan, I was like, that doesn't make too much sense. But if I watched Blackphone and then I watch this one again, then I feel like I would be a little bit more glaring. I will say that aside, the entertainment, I can buy into the whole like supernatural of it all. I'm very glad that again, we didn't go too into the 11 route. But I think that I mean, in a way, like with Blackphone, you already are exploring like whether these entities are real or not. They're coaching him, right? And and the scares. And I think it's a very thin veil between worlds, we could say. And here they definitely like test the waters with how the grabber acts. There were certainly some scenes as a result that felt a little ridiculous and was reminding me of conjuring like the latest Conjuring Last Rights with all the spinning and the, you know, the tossing around left and right, the kitchen scene in particular. I'm like, folks, at what point in time do we plan to help her? I'm kind of like, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_01 58:13

Let's see how this plays out for a second, you know?

SPEAKER_02 58:16

Let's see how this plays out for a good while. So, like little moments like that where I'm like, okay, would people really act this way for that long of a beat? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

I mean, I'm out of there. I'll tell you right now. If that shit's flying around, I'm not sticking around. I ain't helping at all. I'm fucking going the other direction. That shit's not me. I'm so fair.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

That's fair. And you know what? That kind of attitude is what I expected out of Barbara and her husband. But even they just stood there like shocked and just watched for a long time. So little things like that, the logistics, not just within the grabber and his actions, but logistics of like everybody involved with this realm, I guess we could call it maybe, was definitely sus. Yeah. A little bit. Not not enough to like make me think that the movie wasn't good, but just like, okay, interesting, but it but I'll take it, I'll bite.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Yeah, for sure. I I do think like even uh if we go to some of the other characters, right, too. I also want to say I thought it was really clever to use Miguel Mora, who played Robin in the first one, to now play Robin's brother Ernesto in this one. I think that was very, very clever and well done. I like that. That was kind of cool to do.

SPEAKER_02 59:22

Friends, I didn't even know that that was the case until right before this recording. Can you believe it?

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Yeah, crazy, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:28

How much of an idiot I am. I can't he clerk Kent me. He clerked. That's what happened. He put he threw on some glasses.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

He definitely looked a little different for sure.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

A little different. Not my Latino man. He he got me. I couldn't even believe it. When I found out afterwards, I saw him in an interview like on TikTok and passing when I was prepping and getting my computer on. I saw it, I was like, what do you even mean right now? I almost got on this recording thinking that that was another actor. Be like, wow, he's so great. What else is he in? lol. How embarrassing.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

That's hilarious. That's hilarious. I thought it was a good little touch for sure. But okay, I do want to. I I'm not gonna let this movie gonna go with or this episode go without talking about the dad. And and I don't even remember if I touched on this in the first one when we were talking about it, but the dad is just a character. I'm sorry. I just can't deal with it. I can't deal with it. And it I don't know if it's the dude, uh, whatever, but his acting is so strange. The character is so strange to me. He feels so creepy. In in some areas, he feels a little bit more creepy than the fucking grabber himself. I all I I just what the fuck is going on with this style here? He's like, yeah, uh, oh yeah, it's like this kind of like weird kind of vibe he's got going on, and it just kind of rubs me the wrong way. I don't know if you guys felt that at all, but this character just kind of threw me off from the first one and all the way through the second one. Granted, he got a little bit better in this one, but it just something about his demeanor.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Is it because he's Charles Manson in Helter Skeletor?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

I don't think that's what threw me off. I think it's just him as as the way that he's acting or portraying this character. I don't know why. Or maybe it's just him in anything that he does. I don't know. I don't watch enough of his stuff, but fair. Also, if he fucking knew that their mom was having psychic fucking dreams about the camp, and he what and he's so worried about these dreams, why the fuck did he even let them go there in the first place? Oh, he's just like cool, like, yeah, your mom was dreaming about that shit, and then the next thing you know, she died. So uh yeah, why don't you pack your bags and have a great good old time, folks? Alright. Great to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:44

Some things are just like what what here? I don't know. And you know what? He's like an interesting, like juxtaposition to Mondo because now that we're talking about like fatherly figures, I guess to an extent, like Mondo was giving a little bit of that. I thought he was an interesting character. I maybe we needed a little bit more of these side characters, just a smidge, him and his niece in particular, because I the little bit that we got, I was here for. I was very like unsure how I felt about l them just knowing about the grabber, but then not being able to piece together that the grabber was this guy that they worked with, or rather, maybe not make that generalization. He specifically knew exactly who he was. He knew exactly who that man was, but then he also says that he knows the grabber. And maybe it's telling of the world that we didn't get too much of post-incident. Like, did they not reveal the identity of the grabber after the scene, after you know they found Finney? Did they not be able to put out there his government name, like the information? That's the part that I find very interesting that doesn't quite math in this world along with other things, right? But I I I just found that component a little bit curious. Like you want to establish that, oh, this is why we're all here in this setting, but probably could have used a little bit more of explaining as to why they know both characters, but couldn't put that math together.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:17

To be fair, this is a time before widely available, instantaneous information. So if you're not in that local area, how much are you really learning? I don't know that the grabber was national headlines, you know what I mean? It was giving small town headlines, maybe that local city, and this is a camp that is very much on the outskirts of that, and they're focused on their own shit. So I could imagine a s a moment where like, for example, the guy who was on bath salt who ate someone's face off 10 years ago, you know like what he did. You don't know, you don't remember his name, even if his name was known. And it's the fact that Wild Bill wasn't really his name. That's just what they what they called him.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Okay. All right. I mean, listen, I I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I'm not fully sold because sure, access information isn't quite there, but the guy also was like a full-blown serial killer. And personally, for me, this kind of conversation, like uh trying to piece together the logic a little bit, is maybe like the worst part of the film because there is clear moments where they put dates to circumstances, right? They say that the mom had passed away, I think, seven years ago, but or seven or eight. I think I'm pretty sure it's seven. Regardless of that number, I can promise you that there's no way that Ethan Hawkes looks that young, or the grabber, right, looks that young when we're looking at what happened to the mom and Ethan Hawk present day or whatever grabber present day looks old as hell. That doesn't happen to you in seven to eight years unless you are on insane copious amounts of drugs and alcohol, like we're talking crazy amounts. Maybe someone fact check me, but like that's not maybe clearly said. Doesn't that seem a little curious? I don't know. And then there's also the dates of the mit of the kids going missing in terms of the mom finding the first boy that the grabber took, but it doesn't quite add up to her age or when she would have been there when she would have died. So there's a couple of moments there where fine, small bits, we're being picky, but there's a little bit of enough of it where, okay, maybe there's a little bit of reach here and there, but it exists. So if I had to find something, that might be the worst part for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:45

Honestly, I think I'm gonna rewatch these movies and do the timeline because the timeline didn't stand out as super implausible, unplausible to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Yeah, I'm not sure. I will say his brother was doing lines of cocaine in the first one, so it's not impossible that he. Wasn't doing a whole bunch of drugs inside of the house, which would also make sense because he's a psychotic dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:05

Also, some people just age like spoiled milk. So what are you gonna do? God damn.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Never know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

God damn. That's why that's why I brought up the the alcohol and the drugs, because I know that we've definitely seen unfortunately, right? Some people uh with addiction issues, they age immense like super rapidly. So you're right, maybe that is the case. So and I want to call that out, but I know that at the same time, I'm like, damn, he looks like a whole ass other person, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Yeah, for sure. Listen, I think it's it's uh funny that Miki in the chat tonight mentioned Sinister on Ice, and we've kind of referenced that already in the episode. But here in my notes, worst part of the film, I did put the black phone on ice segment, and it's not to say that the ending of this movie was not great. I think the ending was cool. I think that the the the final showdown is fine. I don't mind being on the lake, but we did we have to have Wild Bill grabbing nothing but those ice skates and skating across the lake like that. I don't know that we needed the black phone on ice little bit right there. And so if I have to really pull something from this film, it was the ice skating of it all that I didn't care to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:16

I actually really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed when he slid in and then fucking took a knee and then started swinging on the ice in tandem with Mondo. I really enjoyed that. I mean, they did also specify that he was a fucking great skater, but that's also convenient. I get it. I get it, Sean. However, for me, it was still that they didn't have the balls to kill Mondo. And I like Mondo. I'm glad that he didn't die, but we needed more stakes in this movie. We did. There's no way that that should have happened towards the end of the film, and not a single person in the present day actually died. And that is a struggle for me. This man was too bad, this man was too vicious, now he has all these supernatural powers, and he didn't accomplish fucking anything with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

Nothing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:10

But this movie is ripe for rewatching. And I'm gonna go to watch after I watch the black the black phone again, just to get the timeline in order. I feel like I want to do some research and get my numbers straight because I feel like what concerns me is that maybe the black phone three and Sinister Three end up being the same fucking movie, and maybe it's actually just like a prequel series to the black phone two, kind of like a Lion King one and a half situation, where just just right between, and we get a mini-series of the grabber just grabbing.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:48

Just grabbing. He's grabbing them all. Gotta grab them all. Boy. No, I'm right there with you. I definitely want to do a double feature. Because yes, the timeline, I'll admit, I I I said it right. I didn't watch Blackphone before watching this one. I'm going off of my memory. And I'm pretty sure that my memory's right. But I'll fact check myself. Keep me honest, y'all. Let me know. But I'm pretty sure that I'm I've got some of those dates right. And I feel like it would be fun to just do a double features, just straight through. And even if it wasn't for the timeline of it all, I really do think that this is a great double feature for any spooky season or, you know, good time with friends. It's got that kind of entertainment and tension value, and it's not insanely heavy, right? Like, I don't even know if I would do a double feature of Sinister and Sinister 2, that's for sure. But this one I definitely would when it comes to Scott Derrickson's films.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

Yeah. Well, I did the double feature. I didn't recall the exact dates and timelines of everything, but I did the double feature. I watched the black phone maybe on like I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday, then when saw this on Friday night in theaters. And so it is a good back-to-back watch, and I think I will be on the lookout for that bundle box set when it releases, so I can rewatch them both again.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:04

That works. I can't wait to see how our opinions hold on this movie, both uh when it makes its home release and rewatch, and then again for the Slasher's Choice Awards later this year. But for now, there you have it, folks. Blackphone 2 has earned a universal slash, and we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

That's right. If you want to find out who's on the other end of that call, consider picking up the phone and supporting the show. You can visit patreon.com slash hackerslash and enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, which are, of course, free sides for the spooky season, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, beer is just the warm-up.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

You rotting shit stain. Have you been listening this whole time?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:06

I could never be in this movie because even on the best of days, I'm not answering my fucking phone.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

Ooh. But see, like the payphone of it all, like maybe with like the caller ID that we have now, it's a little bit different, but the payphone of it all has got me intrigued. Like, who's on the other?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:24

You couldn't, you could not get me to answer a fucking public phone in a public place. Absolutely not, Sean.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

There used to be a trick, like you can dial a specific number and then hang it up, and then within like five seconds, the phone would be ringing. We used to do that shit all the time when we were kids when there were payphones everywhere, and it was funny because you would do that and see if somebody would pick up the phone. So I definitely feel like I would be either playing around with it andor fucking picking up the phone to see who's on the other line. You know what I mean?

unknown 1:11:58

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

That was a thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yeah, that was a thing. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

Yeah. Can we also talk about the fact that there's a fucking Maroon 5 song called Payphone?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:07

Well, that song hasn't aged well.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:10

And that song came around long after there weren't payphones anymore. But you know where there were payphones? Much longer than there needed to be. I don't know if they're still on there, but the fucking ship. The ship we had little calling cards, and if we wanted to call home, we had to fucking go to like a little payphone situation to call home, and that was a fucking pain. Imagine having a conversation in that kind of space. Absolutely atrocious.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

Terrible, terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

It's the amount of people that touch those things that are coughing on that thing. I don't know what could be more terrifying. There's no way that I could answer that phone. And I agree, I definitely don't answer random phone calls right now on my cell phone, so most certainly not out in public. The best thing that has probably happened so far on my phone since I've updated it most definitely is the screen call thing. Because I don't know about y'all, but here's who's calling my phone a lot. It's some loan company, I don't know what, that swears that they've got a great deal for me. I'm gonna name a couple of them. I've gotten a Ted, I've gotten a Lauren, I've gotten a Mary. Who are these humans? And they keep calling me and they keep trying to give me a deal with a loan company. I don't want no loan, dog. Leave me alone.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:24

I keep being offered a $55,000 loan that I've never applied for.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:28

And I also get, I guess my phone number belonged to someone named Michael before M Y C A L. And I keep getting loan offers for them too. And I'm like, can y'all just fucking stop?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

I mean, it is endless the amount of different scams that are out there. It's actually the true horrors of having a phone in general anymore, because you're constantly being bombarded with all kinds of bullshit, whether it's literally I could tell you some of the more creative ones, you know. Obviously, there's the people that try to like scam you into thinking that you're compromised on whatever device you have, like you've been hacked or whatever, when they're the ones trying to hack you, you know what I mean? And those I kind of have fun with every once in a lot of. Yeah, those I kind of have fun with every once in a while, because I'll be like, really? And I'll try to buy into it a little bit and have them tell me more and tell me more, and then I'll get about 10 minutes into the conversation, I'll be like, you know what's crazy? I don't even have this device, you know, and just see what they say. So you gotta have fun with those. But now I'm getting these weird ones where you'll get like a random text message from a random number and they'll be like, Hey, do you want to have coffee? And I'm like, Who the fuck are you? And they're like, Oh, is this so-and-so? And I'm like, Nope. And then they're like, Oops, well, my name is so and so. Do you want to have coffee? I'm like, do not fucking talk to me, please.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:45

Yeah, those are bots just trying to get you to an OnlyFans pipeline. Yeah, that's what that is.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

Check out my webpage.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:53

Crazy. That's but you know what's you know what's funny? You said that, and that reminded me of this story that was pretty viral for the longest time about I think it was this older woman that texted a random number. It could have been, I think, a family friend or someone that she was trying to get a hold of about Thanksgiving plans. Do you guys remember this? And it was actually like some young boy, and so for the longest time, I mean, every Thanksgiving, he would go to their house for Thanksgiving, and it was a very sweet story. But I I feel like does it need to be said, folks? That's one in a quatrillion chance of it being a cute moment, right? Because more often than not, it is a botch when I get you two and only fans or trying to steal your identity, or I don't even know what. It's they get real creative and real annoying. I've also gotten the one where, or not me personally, this happened to my mom, and she was freaking out, was them calling, saying that I was in the hospital, that I had gone in a car accident and that I was in the hospital, and that something about like you know how it goes. It's always like, oh, send the money or to click this text message here or something like that. And and she had to call me instantly, and and I don't even remember where I was. I think I was at like a Walgreens or something stupid. Like, I'm fine, girl. I'm not in no hospital, no accident, but stuff like that's really fucking scary.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:17

Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Your daughter Bianca, she was in an accident and she's in the emergency room, and she she does have insurance, but no, her insurance doesn't work. She hasn't hit her out-of-pocket maximum. But don't worry, you can pay it right now with Apple gift cards.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

Because that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:37

Or the other one was like in jail or some shit. Like, you really think my ass is in jail?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:42

I keep getting spam calls from jail. It says jail on it when it comes through on my caller ID. Sorry, though. I ignored your ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

I think that's like the actually the funniest part is nowadays you have to be super clever because you're either gonna get these caller IDs or you're gonna get the scam likely popping up. You know what I mean? Like the system has gotten smarter, and so you gotta be a little bit creative. So I think like the ones that'll slip through are the ones that try to call you from the area code that you're in. So it seems like somebody you might know that might have a new number or something like that. But no, it's just not it. It's just not it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

No, the new iOS, I guess, what that how it screens calls and stuff like that. It even screens my own father sometimes when he calls me from his work phone number that I don't have saved because it changes all the time. So it screened him, and he was so confused when I was like responding, like, yeah, I'll call you later. And the AI told him, like, Bianca says that she'll call you later, or some weird shit like that. And I'm like, no one is safe, bro. You're getting screened from my phone. You call me from a random number, I'm double checking. If I don't got you saved, yeah, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:58

Yeah. Dear friend or family, if you need me to bail you out of something, I'll do it, but you're gonna have to meet me in person first. We're not doing anything electronically.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

Uh, we're going back to the olden days. Can't even trust our own smart technology. It's just too smart now, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:14

Yeah, well, I mean, technology is smart and people have bad intentions. So there's that. But imagine these people, imagine them dying and then fucking spam calling you from beyond the grave. Their unfinished business is the fact that they'd never close the deal, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:31

Okay, but here's the question. If your phone did ring and you did happen to pick it up, and it was some kind of spirit that was trying to maybe help have you help it uncover something to help it out, is that a call that you're gonna stay on? Is that something you're gonna do? Or are you are you tapping out of that conversation?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:55

I would need to have such immense levels of proof, and I don't even know how to even begin to prove that, honestly. I'd be tapping out, I'm gonna be very realistic with you. I'm gonna be tapping out, presuming that it's a fucking scam. Now, you tell me the conditions in which I'm forced to believe this. Like let's say we suspend disbelief and just jump right in and we have confirmation somehow that this is a spirit, I'd fucking entertain it. What then what the fuck else do I have to do?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:23

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:23

So then I got nothing better going on.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

So then the next question is let's say somehow I get murdered and I'm trying to call you. What is some what are the things that are gonna make you believe that I'm that uh that's not someone scamming you? You know what I mean? What is it gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

Like a code, like a we gotta pick a particular phone number that's a code, so that right now, in this moment, we know that it it's one of us, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:51

We'd have to reference this episode. We'd literally have to reference this episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

Yeah, it'd have to be 327 415 S-E-A-N. That's what it had to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

Oh my god. I'll be like I'll be like the person that just doesn't remember any of that. I'll be on the other line and be like, I don't fucking remember the code, okay? I don't know if you okay, that there's that sorry, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:18

You're not doing your fucking two-factor authentication.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

There's this new, there's this the new Leonardo DiCaprio movie that came out, the little battles everywhere, whatever the hell it's called, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:29

One battle after another.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:30

One battle after another, right? And there's this there's this moment in that movie where it's been years since he's had to like talk in code, right? And he's on the phone because shit has hit the fan, and he's trying to talk in code, and the guy's like, What time is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:45

And he's like, I don't fucking know what time it is. I'm too fucking, I've been I smoked my fucking life away, like I'm too fucked up, like I don't remember it. Just fucking tell me what the rendezvous point is. And he's having this whole conversation of like, I just can't remember, and that would be me. I'd be like, I don't fucking remember the code, it's been too long. I'm fucking dead. Come on. Represent the give me your manager. I love it. Zero, zero, zero.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:12

I don't remember my password.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:15

God, we'd be so fucked. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:17

Yeah. Sean, I think, okay, if you were a ghost, I would need to know what how we met, but also specifically where we walked during our first conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:32

Oh, wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:34

That's what I would need to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:35

Hope you remember. I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:37

Well, I remember walking through the fucking mall. Yeah, I remember saying that. Well, don't tell the rest of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:42

They're gonna fucking scam us now, Sean.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

Yeah, I was gonna say, don't say it now.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

Yeah, okay, alright.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:47

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Binx, what about you? What are some of the things that you gotta know? Let's say, let's say Binx is the fucking is the is the fucking ghost here.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:55

I feel like it's gotta be very particular things that we don't also say on this pod because now we've just it's the interwebs, right? So so it's gotta be the things that we talk about prior.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

I got it. I got it. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:13

Go.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:14

What did I make at your apartment the first time I went over to your place?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:18

Uh mushroom ravioli. What the fuck? You don't think now it's too late. Oh, fuck. Well, you're right. Damn it, you see what I'm talking about? Oh, I got one. I got one where we went to go eat. Where we went to go where we went to go eat.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:32

Yeah, the first time we hung out, where did we go eat? Yeah, that's good. Okay, I don't the funny part is I remember what we ate. I don't remember where we were. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:41

I oh I do. It's okay. Yeah, yeah. What happened to happening? But I don't remember where we ate.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:46

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember it being Cuban, but not supposed to be Cuban.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:51

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:52

You're on the right track. Okay. Okay, we're all safe, folks. We're all safe. We've got a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:57

But the fo the the question though is how the fuck are you gonna screen me out of being a ghost?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Well, you see, I mean, that would uh I mean it would it has to be those same type of things. Like you have to know the personal things that you you know that you no one else would know. So you'd have to you'd have to talk about like something like you said, uh where did we first meet or you know what was you know like yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It'd have to be something like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:29

Okay, I think we need to make a I think we need to make a kit. Hear me out. We need to get mac matching antique boxes and we need to write down certain criteria, certain details, and we we put a sheet of glass in there, and we have we break the glass in case of ghost. And then and only then can we confirm if we're actually fucking ghosts. Okay, with the details that are written on this paper.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

Okay. I like that. And I really do hope that we're ghosts that are kind of like the grabber, that just somehow, some way we're physical, but not, because I'll just I'll I'll be out here writing a little code on the glass if I got to.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:09

Yeah, absolutely. I want to ice skate. I've never ice skated in my life, but but suddenly in the afterworld. Throw me around with an axe and a pair of roller skates, and I'll just be fucking scrolling, I'll be scrolling down South Beach.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:26

Oh my gosh.