416: Halloween H20: 20 Years Later (1998)

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Some high quality H2OT season greetings and salutations and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Today is the day. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

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A total joke, a waste of time, or a splash. Totally killer. Unintended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're writing these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the players you fear we fancy most. I am Chris on your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the super flat space guy Mac.

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And tonight you get my full concentration.

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The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

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I can't. I'm having my nipple pierced.

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And the paranormal paramour Binks. Hasn't anyone ever told you that secondhand smoke kills? This week we're celebrating the night he came home with its 20th anniversary sequel.

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And be sure to stick around for our B side at the end of this episode, where we get into all the absurd ways they have brought our beloved franchises back from the dead.

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Before we get down to business, though, we have some follow-up.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Well, let's follow up on some stuff. And by stuff, I mean new patrons. We've got quite a few here. So I'm gonna I'm gonna just throw those names out there. You all can clap in the background while I while I read them out. Welcome to the team, Jared, Tierra, Devilhound, JS, Olivia, Amy, Brendan, Patrick, Jamie, and Chris.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Welcome aboard. That's a lot of people.

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That is a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

That's a soccer team. That's what we just built right there. It's a soccer team. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

And you know what? The best part is we're recording this for our Halloween episode, but it's not even Halloween yet. We still got weeks left of October. So undoubtedly there will be more.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Love it. Love it. Love it. We do need, you know, that's the starters. We do need another people, you know, another group of people ready to go on the bench. So come on, keep joining the team. Let's let's be ready for anything here.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

But yeah, hey, if you're listening to this episode early in the day as it drops, you still have until the end of tonight to actually get 50% off an entire full year of patronage. So check it out.

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And that's our follow-up.

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Twenty years after the night he came home, the Iconic Slasher franchise returned with a film that sought to close the book on its longest-running survivor. But the path to this film was anything but simple. Jamie Lee Curtis originally envisioned it as an anniversary reunion for her, John Carpenter, and Deborah Hill, and as a way to thank both them and the fans for launching her career. But a dispute over unpaid revenue from the first film, however, sent Carpenter and ultimately Hill walking. An early drafts of the script range from cult conspiracies in Haddonfield to a boarding school slasher featuring a copycat killer. Yeah, I know it's giving Corey Cunningham. The version that reached the screen was written by Robert Zapia and shaped by Scream's writer Kevin Williamson, whose influence helped merge the self-awareness of the late 90s horror revival with the legacy of John Carpenter's original. And while Jamie Lee Curtis did still return to the role that defined her career, she did so under the direction of Steve Minor, who had already cut his teeth on Friday the 13th, part two and part three. But in this story, Lori Strode is living under a new name as the headmistress of a private school in Northern California, still haunted by the past that she's trying to bury. When that past inevitably catches up, she's forced to confront the shape once more, but this time with her son's life on the line. This week we're talking about Halloween, age 20, 20 years later, which we will henceforth be referring to as age 20. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_02 3:41

I was actually commenting on this today with a friend of the show, Alan. This feels like one of those films that's of our time, of our generation, where yes, we've seen the other films, yes, we're very familiar, but for some reason, you know, we've watched this. We watched it pretty close to release, if not right upon release. And since then, probably several times, because it is a Halloween of us oldies and now in our 30s and 40s.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

It's true. I mean, this is definitely one of the Halloween of our generation, right? Like the early ones when we were kids. So definitely something that you remember. I've seen this one many times, much like most of the Halloween franchise, because you know, you just kind of watch all the Halloween movies at least once a year for the spooky season. So, like a naturally, you watch this probably. I mean, what am I 38? So give or take, probably 20-ish times, it feels like. You know what I mean? It feels like that.

SPEAKER_06 4:43

I feel like for me, I can recall several times where this has been on the TV. I mean, I'm obviously so young at this point when this movie came out. So I remember particular scenes, but I haven't revisited this movie since then. So I don't want to say that I've watched it entirely. And I know that I am the one that doesn't really dabble in this franchise much. So I'm like the the newbie, right? When it comes to Michael Myers and Halloween. But this one is one that I actually remember some bits and pieces, but this was still like pretty fresh in terms of a rewatch.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Okay, so I'm gonna assume this is like you've never really seen it before. I think that's probably fair.

SPEAKER_06 5:26

Yeah, like that's how I feel about most of the movies in this franchise in general, though. And I think I've expressed that before. I mean, Halloween, the first one, is the one that I've seen the most. And I recall, I actually just re-watched it. I revisit that one constantly. And then, of course, the more recent ones because that just came out not too long ago. But have I dabbled a little bit here and there with Season of the Witch? And then, like, maybe this one I do recall a bit more. The Paul Rudd only one to see Paul Rudd, you know, like the things like that. I I know that I have a lot to learn. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah, you're just not gonna watch Halloween six, but that's neither here nor there. Listen, I loved this movie when it came out, it felt like such a return to form for the franchise. You know, Sean and Mackie both talk about being this this being a Halloween of our generation. It really is right up there with like this millennial nostalgia for me. Like I was having a conversation with a friend earlier today, and she was like, Man, uh, you know, I went for a workout and uh I got to see the millennial playlist, and it had Backstreet Boys in Sync, Brittany Spears, and I'm like, Yeah, hell yeah. And then I immediately slipped back into watching Halloween H2O. So that's where this movie really lives for me in the joy of my youth. And it's really exciting to watch this now in my mid-30s because this is such a great earlier example of a legacy sequel. And the legacy sequel and the requel treatment has been so popular as of late. And listen, this movie is not the first. There's a lot of material in the horror genre that predates this in terms of it being like a legacy sequel. So even just slashers alone, right? You can look back to Dream Warriors, you can look back to Psycho 2, you can even look back, and if you squint your eyes just right, you can look at Friday the 13th, part two. But I was really excited to get into a rewatch of this specifically with that context in mind, assessing it as a legacy sequel, now knowing what we couldn't have possibly known in 1998, which was how much this treatment would really take off with the David Gordon Green trilogy.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

It's so true for sure. This one, to your point, it just feels like a Halloween movie. You said return to form, and that's a hundred percent how it feels. And I think if you're like a a really big fan of the franchise, that's a hundred percent the feeling you get with this one. It's a Halloween movie without the bullshit cults and convoluted mythology, right? And watching it now, it does feel nostalgic. It feels like a time capsule of the late 90s horror. And I think because of this, and because it's full of nostalgia from that era, it just kind of gives you a really good vibe. It's got some tension, it's definitely, I feel like, emotionally vindicated for sure, but it's got a few eye roll moments as well. Like we can't ignore that. There are some moments in here, maybe even one specific choice in the movie, which we will undoubtedly talk about in the second half. But you know, we got some ups and downs, but overall, such a like fond memory of watching this movie. And because of that, while you're watching it back again, what a great time.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

Yeah, actually, being I'm curious then, if you've only like seen glimpses of this movie and bits and pieces of it, what were you expecting going into it now for a full watch?

SPEAKER_06 8:47

Yeah, so honestly, I would say based on the conversations that we always tend to have around this franchise and all of these movies with the many different branches that it has, right? It seems like one particular branch gets a little ridiculous, another branch maybe gets a little bit too intense. I'm looking at you, Rob Zombie. Yeah, I'm assuming, right? I barely remember those. But it's hard for me to pinpoint what to expect with one of these movies at this rate because it just feels like when I am participating in the discourse on our Discord community, like and how they talk about these movies, or you, Chris, like in conversation. I know how passionate you are, obviously, about Halloween. It's it's hard for me to really say, like, what am I gonna get into? I want to caution with like overall, I think I struggle with some of these like big name franchises and these characters, right? And I've talked Agnause about Friday the 13th and my thoughts on those movies. With Halloween, it's hard for me to like really kind of decide like, is it a little bit too overdone and a little too overcooked with its ridiculousness? Or is it that maybe I am not traversing the on the right path of movies? Does that make sense? Like, do I need to stick to one particular branch to really appreciate this franchise for what it could be? And maybe I've just dabbled around, had like little bites in here and there of a charcuterie board that sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't. So all that to say that I really don't know if I had much expectations with this one. Only that the nostalgia in terms of its cast was gonna hit, right? Like this is the one that I remember has some incredible people from the 90s. And that's what I was kind of looking forward to the most. Obviously, El Col Jay, but uh and Josh Hartnett, uh, but you know, like that kind of bit for sure. But as far as content and what was gonna unfold, I didn't really have much expectations. It's kind of up in the air always with these movies, it feels like.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

It's interesting that you mentioned the cast because that is something that I looked forward to in a way, watching this again. Because I mean, obviously, Lori Strode, we love it, we love to see her do her work and fight off her evils. But we've got like Alan Parish here from Jumanji, with I don't I have no idea what the actor's name is at this moment, but I see his face, and that's all I think of. I just think of a young Robin Williams, even though he's not, but that's great. LO Cool J. I mean, come on, what could be cooler than LO Cool J? Come on, it's in the name Josh Hartnett, and this is the same year that we get the faculty with Josh Hartnett. And there's just something so pleasing to a millennial to see films from this era with people that we kind of grew up with. I mean, many of us were already teens or going into our 20s at this point, and we're soaking this up, but it goes further than that. Adam Arkin, for me, if you ever watched Chicago Hope around the late 90s, you know, it's his face is baked into your brain. I think he was in a couple other shows like uh The West Wing, maybe, with some kind of small bit part. And there's just a feeling of the times, I think, when I'm when I'm expecting this stuff to kind of play out on screen. And so while I'm watching it, it hits different. I think films these days, teens, young adults, the way they speak to each other, the way they act, everybody's so grown up, everybody's so over everything, nobody can have fun anymore. And when they do, they have to be constantly too meta. And so I love that the teens in this movie can just be, I don't know, a little bit less meta, but also we can give them dialogue that is meta in terms of horror. And so we can slip in these little bits for fun, but the rest of the movie, they just get to be teens. And I'm, you know, I think when you're watching that, it kind of it kind of adds a little bit of fun to it that they're actually having a good time until they're not, versus now where either everyone's having a good time because nobody takes anything seriously anymore, or nobody's having a good time because they're all depressed with the state of the world. So it just feels like I've mentioned this before, this whole like pre-9-11 thing where, you know, fun was allowed every now and then in media because we hadn't gone through this horrible thing yet. And so I think when you're watching it, you have to like consider that whole cultural context where, you know, teens hanging out, having a little party Halloween night in a school. Um, it it wasn't it wasn't crazy to imagine that.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

You know, Mac, you really dive into a few different things here that really scratch the surface of emotionally what this movie does for me now, especially thinking about I was eight years old when it came out originally, and then shifting into now 35, revisiting this. And I've watched it every year in my Halloween marathon. But revisiting this movie in particular feels like reconnecting with an old friend that you grew up with, lost touch with, but they still feel like the person you knew. And that is such a magical feeling. This movie is like really confident without being super flashy and it's deliberate, but it doesn't drag itself down, which I can really appreciate. And I kind of live in this world of like two different perspectives on this movie because on the one hand, the second this movie starts, you have Mr. Sandman, and that movie plays as like a little reminder to us of what happened when last we visited technically this timeline in Halloween 2. And it it introduces this measured return of Lori Strode, where you can feel the movies reclaiming the franchise's entire heartbeat. So there's a lot of nostalgia there. Sean, you mentioned it. This mythology, especially with the Thorn trilogy, gets really fucking messy. And this one feels like uh, okay, let's just take an exhale, let's take a beat, and let's remember that you know, sometimes less is more. With simplicity, with you know, simplicity and when done with care, you can still carry enormous emotional weight. And that's where I started to get into a really weird space with this movie because I think about being eight years old when this movie first came out and thinking, wow, okay, Lori Strode, she's fighting a lot of stuff, she's fighting Michael Myers again. And as a child, you don't really fully appreciate everything that she has on her. I remember not liking Josh Hartnett and his character because I thought he was a dick to his mom. I wasn't a big fan of that. But then growing up, you know, 18 years old, experiencing something terrible, and then being diagnosed with PTSD and living with that and surviving with that, and then being the person with the nightmares, being the person who's like unpacking and healing from a trauma and sometimes feeling like you're a burden to the people around you, that completely changed how I see this movie. And it is just it's something that it feels different every single time I watch it.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Dang, that's pretty deep for sure. Like, I don't know that everyone would have that connection, but I'm I'm really I think that's a really special connection and a special view that you can have to relate to the characters or to Lori in in general as a character in this movie. I I think unpacking her as a character later will be very interesting for sure. But yeah, I mean this movie it is nostalgic and it does have that like return to form feel, but there's also this aspect of this movie that feels a little bit more new age and a little more polished than we're used to seeing from a Halloween movie. So it is kind of like a mixed bag and the feelings that you get, like we do get that kind of original Halloween feel, but we also get this really screamy kind of polished vibe to the slasher franchise that we love, you know?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

And it is something that can kind of catch you off guard a little bit. I remember this film, I remember watching it, but now that we've gone back over the last you know couple years and watched everything before it, and I wasn't caught up in all of that stuff, right? And so I feel like we've earned our way to this, but when you finally do that, it does feel different from the movies that have come before. Our opening scene takes you right back to Halloween one and Halloween two, and it links right up, and you're like, wow, this is actually one of the best Halloween openers that we've seen in quite a few movies. And like you said, when that song plays, it really hits different. But the rest of the film, it's got like a different structure to it. The dialogue feels it feels really polished, like you've said. The way that we've kept things simple, like you said, Chris, goes so far because it's not too simple. We get to focus things like on the interaction between characters, we get to focus on someone's face for a few seconds as they're feeling an emotion. And I don't think you always get to really live in those moments in a lot of these films. And yeah, it can be really goofy and and that's fun. Josh Hartnett also caught caught me off guard because I don't think I remembered, like you mentioned, that he's a douche in this in this film, at least for a good portion of it. And that was a big surprise to me because it's been probably been a couple of years since I've watched this. And so yeah, I think there's there's a lot here that if you haven't seen it a bit, or if you've never seen it, you're gonna be like, okay, this makes sense. And then you're also gonna be like, wow, okay, that's the way they decided to go with this. Or why do they decide to go that way with this? And why is that character such a jerk? Or why does LO Cool J say the things that he says in this film? It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Well, I mean, come on, he's like uh Josh Hartnett, he is a kind of a dick to his mom in this movie, but he's a teenage boy, you know what I mean? Like he's just a rebellious and he's been frickin' sheltered his entire life.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

And he's also, I mean, far be it from me, especially I know Nathan in the chat is gonna raise an eyebrow at this one because he knows I'm not a fan of John Tate, Josh Hartnett's character in this movie, so much so that Nathan won sent me a production still from this movie, and then has L. Cool J's Ronnie and Josh Hartness John Tate in the film. It was just it was really funny. It was really funny. But the thing about him, which I can appreciate now as an older person with hindsight, is that he's also just trying to set boundaries, and I get it. Because now, even my own experiences in my family, it helps you realize the need to set and reset boundaries. Is it the way that it should be done? No, but he's also an immature kid, he's also 17 years old, and he is honestly, and and there's we'll talk about it later on in this episode when we get into the characters. The shit that he says to his mom about his dad, hmm, you can tell, you can tell he wasn't raised in a Hispanic household. That Janka would fucking get him.

SPEAKER_06 19:19

Absolutely would have been on site. It would have been on site. Yeah, I remember because I was there with you and you got that still. And going into this, I remember that moment specifically because I was like, wait, she doesn't like this character. And then I realized why. And then I kind of understood again. So absolutely, it would have been a chancla to the face for sure. For sure, because the disrespect was too much. But, you know, again, coming at this from the perspective of like a more of a fresh take, but really just like a clean sleigh overall. I was really surprised again by the cast, but how I almost my instinct is to say almost like how normal this felt. Like this felt like just a regular Halloween, you know, a little bit of drama, a little bit of unpacking, you know, characters, very 90s vibe. It wasn't ultra slasher-y to me specifically. I think I was expecting a little bit more gore or a little bit more slasher Michael Myers' presence, you know, that that kind of vibe. But we're getting a perspective of what's happened 20 years later, quite literally, for a big majority of the movie. And so, although that kind of made me feel a little bit like, all right, this is really different than again the discourse that I've heard around this franchise, the other movies that we've talked about and how very different they are, either they're very camp and very like a little bit absurdist and ridiculous, or you know, they're very grunge and intense, a wide variety of options. But what I was a little bit more disappointed in actually is myself, because what I failed to do was watch Halloween 2 again, because I do remember seeing a majority of this movie before watching this. You see, folks, again, for the for the peeps like me that maybe just don't feel the generic need to watch a lot of these movies all the time or didn't grow up watching them for a majority of your life. Halloween H2O, like 20 years later, doesn't the two doesn't mean Halloween two, you see? So so don't so don't be fooled by that. I strongly suggest that you maybe Google the timeline sheet where you can see all of these movies and you can see exactly the branches of where they go. And I know that there's got to be a lot of listeners rolling their eyes because Bianca, of course. But again, I know that there are people out there like me that, you know, just didn't grow up watching these movies that much. My brother was a Texas chainsaw boy, thus, so was I. And the trivia that we Did a lot was a long time ago now. So a lot of my information has been kind of a little bit lost on me.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Well, don't worry, Binx, and don't worry, listener, if you too have found your way into this episode and you haven't done the prerequisite courses, right? Not because we actually have a bonus episode walking you through all the ways that you can do a Halloween franchise marathon and not miss a beat. So don't worry, we got you covered. You don't need to Google shit. Just follow the link in the show notes and we'll get you right.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Well, there you go, for sure. If you do know the franchise and you are well versed in the franchise, and I gotta imagine, even if you're not like a die hard Halloween fan, there's probably a ton of people out there that have seen most of the movies leading up to this movie. And I think that if you haven't seen this movie, and I'm just trying to like, I know Bing says semi-new to you, but I'm just trying to imagine this world of like somebody like visiting this for the first time. So I'm thinking of like a really new generation that maybe is just exploring going through the entire franchise. And I'm picturing that they're watching through all these movies and they get to Halloween H2O. You know what I mean? And I think there's probably, and we've already been talking about it. So if you've already been listening, you probably get the gist by now. But there's two, I think, big surprises. One, you're gonna be surprised to see Lori Strode reprise her role, right? Or Jamie Lee Curtis reprise her role as Lori Strode. So that is gonna feel a little bit exciting. It's gonna be surprising. And I I also think the second thing is what we've already talked about is how it completely ignores Halloween four through six, right? So those we're talking about it, but these are the two like big surprises when you get to this movie from watching Halloween, Halloween two, you in season of the witch, and then four, five, and six, and then getting here, you're like, oh man, whoa, okay, we're here. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

Okay, but here's what's interesting about this because little old eight-year-old Chris seeing this in the movie theaters didn't understand what retconning meant. So I need you to know that for a significant portion of my life, I have chosen to live in the head cannon that four, five, and six sure did fucking happen. And you actually get this fun little note when they were actually making this film or in the pre in the process of writing it, there was the intention of that still being in the canon, which is fucking crazy. That is crazy. There was a a specific example of a moment where there was gonna be a report read where essentially Lori would learn about Jamie's fate in Halloween 6 and she'd go into a bathroom and vomit.

SPEAKER_05 24:39

So wow.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

The the lore runs deep. And again, this is a queen break in the franchise. So while there are still ties that you can feel to its predecessors, this is a Halloween, Halloween two, Halloween H2O situation. But man, when you consider even Halloween one through six, Halloween one and two, and then this, there are a couple consistencies that are also inconsistent. One, if there's anything this franchise is good at, it's fucking up the mask. And let me tell you, let me tell you, this movie has three masks, three masks, and there's also a CGI mask. And I fucking challenge you, find it. Actually, no, I don't, it's not that hard. You'll know it when you see it. It's a real fucky, it's real fucky.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Stick around for the second half when we fucking dissect that pile of shit.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

I can't wait, but again, still my imperfect child, and I still love it. I can't and it's so funny because NECA has now released an H2O Michael, and they have the three different masks, and it's just such a weird fucking thing to look at. But on a more serious note, there's also the evolution of Michael because you see in Halloween 2018, this man's been kept up and cooped up for about 40 years. However, in this scenario, he has disappeared after that night in 1981, and the story is framed in such a way that you're reminded of how young in perspective he actually is in this. And the evolution of how he rolls through existing in this movie is interesting because there's a little bit more cat and mouse, and there's a little bit more restraint, and that was really unexpected, both when I first watched it and it continues to feel like, damn, Michael, what are you doing, man? This entire movie.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Where are you been at, man? 20 years, just where the fuck? We don't know.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Michael, where the hell you been, Loca?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah, I mean, it is a disappointing part of the movie, like something feels off with Michael in this movie, and it could be the mask, and it probably is the mask, and we'll talk about it. But yeah, for a Halloween movie, that's probably the biggest disappointment you'll have is if the look and the feel isn't just right, then what the fuck? But I'll tell you, H2O also definitely not the scariest entry in the franchise by any means, but I don't I I would listen, it's not without some tense and chilling moments. There are some really good moments in this film. I think it just really depends on what kind of horror you really respond to, honestly. For me, I think it's more suspenseful than terrifying, right? It's not a whole lot of jump scary moments that really get me in this movie, but I do think it dives into the psychological fear and the trauma and taps into the fear of never truly being able to escape your past. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's where it really kind of dives into that kind of psyche, that kind of fear.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

And that's such a great way of putting it, Sean, because that's exactly how I felt watching this. Not so much when I was younger, but definitely now as an adult. This doesn't try to scare you, it doesn't try to be terrifying. But what it does do is it trades that traditional slasher fear for unease and it trades dread for recognition, and that is in some ways even scarier. There's a lot of tension in this movie that doesn't come from a jump scare, right? It comes from watching her live with perpetual vigilance, and that is such a stressful feeling because Lori's because Lori's paranoia becomes this honest beacon of suspense. It's like every hallway, every shadow, every reflection in a mirror, everyone walking by on the street. It feels like the manifestation of 20 years of anxiety. The scares themselves become more functional rather than shocking because the psychological horror is really center stage here, even more so than Michael himself. And I think the most beautiful part of that, right, is this film captures just that exhaustion. That exhaustion of waking up for every day waiting for the past to knock on your door. And I don't I didn't live that in terms of waiting fucking 20 years for my dead, maybe serial killer or my maybe dead serial killer brother to come get me, but I've definitely woken up from nightmares in the middle of the night thinking that I was gonna relive something. It's so interesting now, just like being able to appreciate this movie in a completely different way.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

To me, it gives the feeling of put this on around the spooky season, eat some popcorn, hang out with friends, reminisce about I don't know, like CD players and stuff like that or something, you know, bring back the old times. But it doesn't scream scary, of course, but it screams slasher, it screams millennial teenage kind of feelings in a way, and like you can watch it, you can laugh, somebody might jump. Somebody who's like we're not really into war like at all will probably jump at one or two points, maybe. And that's kind of nice, you know. We get so serious with stuff, and there's room for it. I think the latest Halloween films really dive deeper into that, and that's cool. But this was a time where you needed to like appeal to 15-year-olds who were like barely allowed to go to the movie theater. And to the to them, this was huge to be able to watch this as it released, and you're like, wow, that was awesome. We got to watch a scary movie. And it's got its it's got its place, you know. It's not hocus pocus. It's not quite that like chilled out. It's a little bit up from hocus pocus because they're stabbing, but not much, you know? It's just it's not quite feel good, but it's not quite feel bad.

SPEAKER_06 30:25

And I think that overall this definitely leans more into like a thriller suspense vibe. I mean, I felt the same way about the original one, right? Like, although I do feel like the original's definitely scarier in a sense, it's a lot more intimidating. But I think that that's Michael Myers in a nutshell, right? Like that is the shape. The shape is intimidation, evil to an extent. I mean, maybe not so much with this wonky ass mask, but that's neither here nor there.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Yeah. I'm sorry, it's just it's it's so perfect because it's exactly that. Dr. Loomis says the blackest eyes, the devil's eyes, and you got this motherfucker being able to see all the skin around his eyes and his brightest blue eyes.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Googly eyes.

SPEAKER_06 31:06

The the gap in his eyes is massive. I could you could full on identify who that is while he's wearing the mask. At that point, just fully just take it off at that point. Also brush the hair a little bit. But you know what, now that we're talking about it, like that's exactly it, right? It it you can't find this too scary with a mask like that, with a presence like that. And I think it really did kill it for me, you know? But that's okay. I truthfully don't find this like very scary. I don't find the first one very scary. I don't, and now I'm starting to think about like the overall picture. Maybe it just isn't. And like you said, Chris, maybe it's more about, you know, if you can relate to this idea of like trauma, right? And and not being able to outrun your past, that kind of terror. That's what the scary factor is in in all of these movies, perhaps. Not so much like Michael Maris himself, right? Being a scary villain. I mean, his presence and the stalking and all that is obviously intimidating, but I don't even think that I found the moments that we get here to feel like to be intimidating. And it does have a lot to do with his look, sadly.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

Yeah. I think another component to that though might also be how familiar this feels in relation to other films of its time. This is in a unique position because it both pioneered the genre and then helped reinvent the genre. And in some ways, how goes Halloween, so goes the rest of the franchise and the rest of the genre as a whole. And what's interesting here is obviously we have Kevin Williamson who supported the writing of this film. He did some rewrites, he did an initial treatment. And of course, you cannot ignore the DNA of Scream that is left all over the body of this movie. It's there, it's baked in. And it's one of those things that if you watch this now in retrospect and you've seen everything that's come out after this, I think you're probably gonna be bored. I think you're going to find a situation like, oh god, this is just another thing. But in 1998 specifically, this was in some ways quietly revolutionary. Yes, it did come after Scream and Scream 2, for sure. But in some ways, it does predate our version of the modern legacy sequel. We did get other legacy sequels before this, so it's not the first. But what's exciting about this is it helps to rewrite continuity, not for convenience, but for meaning, right? This is a moment where it retconned a trilogy to be able to narrow the scope and restore intimacy and focus. And I think that was a different move for the franchise. Not in the rent conning, but retconning done right.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, it is interesting. I think if you like slashers, it might not be boring because here's here's the thing. I think this one, to your point, it really does feel like it got the scream makeover. You can really get that familiar slasher vibe watching this one. But if you like slashers, if you truly, truly like slashers, then this one's probably going to be right up your alley, I would say. But I think the kills and the overall plot, pretty predictable. I think it that in and of itself makes it hard to give this one a lot of originality just from that alone. But I think, you know, we sometimes when we go back to basics, right? You know what I mean? Like every once in a while you get ahead of yourself, you start doing all this extra shit, and then you realize to really win, you just gotta go back to basics and you gotta ground yourself and re and re find yourself. And I think by grounding this franchise back to reality and and bringing Michael home, so to speak, departing from all the nonsense that was, you know, I don't know, it was a little bit wild. And and I think it was a great choice to kind of go in this direction, and ultimately they did a great job bringing Lori back into the mix and really just to continue the story between Lori and Michael and their feud. And I think that's what fans really wanted to see, and so that's what we got. And I think when you when you get up to this movie, I think that's the breath of fresh air, and I think that's where this movie kind of gets its originality, even though it doesn't feel super distinct. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 35:25

The trouble this movie gets into, though, especially with our generation and the memory that we have. If you mention merely the title, someone's gonna ask you if it's the one that has Buster Rhymes in it. Just it's inevitable that we get the two films that we watched as teenagers or young teenagers or whatever, they're gonna get mixed up. And I don't know why that is, but that's just what happens. And I think they do stand apart. Maybe it's because of that simplicity that we mentioned, right? Maybe it's because of the age that we were, maybe it's because of when they came out, but they may not stand out to a lot of folks. As soon as you get into the plot or the cast, I think it starts to kind of poke itself a little bit of like, oh yeah, that one. Okay, now I know which one you're talking about. However, just merely mention the title and it's gonna kind of blend in. But when you compare it to other films that have come before, I think it does stand out pretty clearly. You've got the effect of 90s slashers pushing against us so hard. And that's I think where it's different from other Halloween films. From other horror films, you know, the cases could be made. You could change some names and maybe the mask, and this might work as any other slasher. But I think if you compare it just within the Halloween universe, it feels different. It is a very differently kind of orchestrated film that simplicity plays to its strengths for sure, but it doesn't feel like Season of the Witch, right? It doesn't feel like anything having to do with any sort of cult. It doesn't feel like any sort of weird crud that we can't shake off. And that's where I think it has that strength of like being able to just say, like, let's keep it simple, let's go back to one and two, link these together, keep it pushing and make it a little glossy and we're and we're good to go.

SPEAKER_06 37:08

I feel like it's a little difficult for me to confidently speak on this because I feel like I'm lacking so much context, right? And again, I go back to my experience of just having bits and pieces all over the place throughout years of my life. And so it just it's hard to kind of really have a strong opinion on its originality when all I have is to put it against maybe other movies that came out of this era, right? In which case, when I do that, then I don't feel like this is entirely original. But obviously, from what I've already shared and what we've all kind of reached this consensus of, is that when we do put this against maybe the ones that I have seen, or for me in particular, it's just like even the first one, of course, you can tell that this has definitely been 20 something years later because it's very different. It's very of its time. And I do like the perspective of like what happens to these people that survive these heinous acts and these acts of trauma and violence, being victims of a serial killer, you know, like that. That's just intense stuff. And so I feel like exploring Glory's Life post is really cool for sure. But one thing in particular that feels like, yeah, this is exactly the 90s kind of film that I expected after all, is this ending. I think the ending I personally loved and I was genuinely shocked by. Don't remember that ending at all if I ever did see it as a kid. That's for sure. I don't even think I remember this being discussed in passing. Because when it happened, I was like, wait a second, what? And then I remembered, and then I remembered the whole bit, you know, the whole kick and caboodle and the whole point of this whole thing, right? But it's kind of like badass, it's uh intense, it's a little ridiculous. It's a little like, why'd you make some of these choices? I'm not too sure. A whole pot of all kinds of things, but I honestly kind of loved it. It was a weird way to land the plane, I'll say, and it's very different in terms of tone, but I'll take it. I I honestly was shocked, and that's not a sentiment that I had been feeling throughout the movie, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Yeah, listen, the ending is controversial, and I will never forget the way my jaw hit the floor in the movie theater watching this for the first time. It was like, what? And the experience can be likened only to a very I wouldn't say dissimilar moment in Breaking Dawn. Because that was holy shit, right? If you know you fucking know. If you know you know, if you know you know, if you know you know, yeah, it's exactly that. Because this movie in and really its ending is in some ways a win, in some ways it's a loss, and it's something that you really cannot fully unpack and weigh the ramifications of without also considering the next film in the series, which is Halloween Resurrection. But if we take this ending for what it is, if we just take it for what it appeared to be to all of us in the theater in 1998, who did not have a seat at the Miramax table, who did not know what was happening behind the scenes and the compromises that were made, and Jamie Lee Curtis's vision versus Kevin Williamson coming up with an idea to satisfy everyone. This final sequence stands as one of the franchise's most emotionally charged moments. And in that regard, in that moment, in that context, this feels like an exorcism of the franchise's pain.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

You know, I think about the latest films, and I think the ending we get to the latest trilogy feels so emotional and so personal, and it almost kind of screams, I'm done. Like we're not doing this anymore. I'm really, really done this time. And this one kind of felt a little bit like that as well. It really had that like slap on the screen letting you know, like, come on, like let it, let it be done. But at the same time, at the same time, there's a feeling because of the quickness that it's like, nah, it can't be. And I don't remember watching it earlier on, but it's got this feeling of like they should have just planned this entire thing when they started to make sequels, that at the end of every film he hops on a train or hops on a bus or something because we know you're gonna find a way. All right. So don't even bother trying to say you're done because that's a lie. And 20 years from now, we'll be talking about it again when they make Halloween 2000 and you know, 45 or whatever it's gonna be at that point. But it's just like it's this weird mixture of like an actor, uh, you know, it and a character at the same time both being like, uh-uh, we need closure, but culturally, everyone being aware that no, you don't. Someone's gonna convince someone, I don't know how you're gonna do it, it doesn't matter. You could literally vaporize everybody inside of this movie, and a couple years from now, we're gonna see them all just fine. And so it almost has this feeling of like disbelief for me when you make it to the end. It's good. Everything leading up to that point feels good. And you could take this movie and end the whole thing and you'd be fine, or you could say, all right, to be continued, and we'd be like, Yeah, I know. Like, obviously. So it's weird, it's got just like kind of this weird in-between limbo feeling. Maybe that's restros retrospect, maybe that's because we know what the future holds, and we're gonna get so many more movies. But yeah, it's just I don't know. I'm like side-eyeing this this ending.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, I think the thing is, is you know, we've already been talking about the ending, it's kind of a mixed bag, and if you've you know, if you've seen it, you know. But you said a couple of of interesting things there, Mac, and I think like everyone at least knows that by now that the franchise doesn't stop here. So that muddies the waters a little bit. That's that's the argument, right? But however, not knowing that and watching this in 1998, looking at this movie alone, I do think this one gave a certain sense of closure for fans of the franchise at the time. And so it was a very shocking moment at the time, right? And maybe will be shocking for those who have this is the this is the next stop on their way to to watching everything, and they just don't even know what the future holds, you know. They might know there's other movies, but we don't know what happens in those movies or what goes on. So it is an interesting take for sure. I actually do like the ending to this movie. I think there's a lot of really great, like there's it's an emotional ride, there's some action, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in this movie. You're really rooting for Lori at the end of this movie. She becomes, she's on this, like, we'll talk about it, but she goes on this journey and she becomes this fucking badass in this movie. We really are here for it, you know. So we'll talk about it, but I it's a mixed bag. It's definitely a mixed bag.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

Well, despite it being a mixed bag, I can't wait to see how that translates into our ratings. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_01 44:13

The gore in Halloween H2O is surprisingly mild. And not because it's a Halloween film, because most Halloween films are not over the top with the gore as it is. But for a late 90s slasher, I think it's far more focused on the suspense and the tension and the character drama than on graphic violence. And I think it's minimal on-screen violence. You do get some blood, but not in excess. And I think there are some really great shots, and we're going to talk about that a little bit later. There's some great practical effects and some really cool things that they did with this movie. But overall, it's still earning itself kind of a low gore score.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

And what about the Animal Report? All safe as Halloween. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Then Halloween, H2O, Halloween, H20, 20 years later, however you would prefer to call it. Was it a hack or was it a slash?

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Some high quality H2O.

SPEAKER_06 45:08

I am coming from a perspective of someone who just never really felt the need to explore these movies. And I know that that's very bizarre for someone who loves horror. It's just not the path that my brother was into, thus, I was not into it either. But I gotta say, as I am traversing this new land and I am on this pod and I am friends with Chris, who's obviously obsessed with this franchise, I've learned a lot. I've participated in a trivia and realized that I've learned fun facts about things that I don't even know. After watching this movie and revisiting it and really putting the pieces together of my childhood, watching little scenes here and there and knowing the cast, I thought that this movie felt very much like a thriller, like a drama, not so much horror and a little bit of suspense here and there. In the third act, I felt like the rammed up nature and like, okay, this feels like a Halloween movie, and it feels like the kind of movie that everyone is talking so much about and would get people riled up to want to see more. It hooked me just enough at the last hour because I think that as it was going along, it felt cool to explore Lori's life after the fact. And I do love the original movie Halloween. As I revisited it more and more, I think I've grown to appreciate the movie more and more. But for a good portion of this film, I felt like it was just okay. And I was a little worried about whether I was going to really slash this movie or not, because if it had kept at that pace, I would have been like, well, this was nice, but it could have been a novella. It could have been a TV episode. It didn't really have to be a full-blown movie because then it's just giving cash grab for the 90s. It's giving I want to compete for Scream. And not saying that that's not still the case, but I think it just crosses that line into this is something to throw on and have a good time. This is something to have a laugh here and there. There's some characters that you're gonna feel are annoying, there's some characters that you're really gonna love and you know, feel like I've got a friend that's like that, or I can see myself being this person. It surprised me in some ways, and others maybe not so much, but I didn't go into this thinking that I would slash this or think that it was actually something I'd ever revisit. But even as we've talked about it tonight, I've realized that there's something special about this particular movie and the Halloween movies of the 90s, it seems like, because at the very least, although that's our era, it just goes to show that the nostalgia for, you know, for what this is and millennials and how they operate, it's like something very unique. Like you can watch this movie and just remember a time and place in your particular life. And that to me deserves a slash.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

I love this idea that we've been bringing up all along that this movie does something with time, especially for us who were around during this part. Because we're threading needles here. We are moving between the 90s and the 2000s, and that that is what this movie is doing. Horror is still slick, it's still self-aware, it's still fun, but it's still kind of grounded. You know, this whole story is grounded in the 1970s. So we have a Gen X Laurie Strode who has a millennial son who listens to Creed, right? So there's something going on here where we're passing batons, we're moving between generations as a culture outside of this film, but also within this film. I mean, we've got this isolated private school, they've got dial-up, we've got phones. They're they're chunky, you know, chunky old flip phones. They probably take a fall and they're fine. You know, the battery life is probably horrible, but that's okay. It probably still lasts three weeks compared to the latest phones that we have these days. So it's weird because it's not a relic, right? The the movie is a little time capsule, but it's not a relic. But it does bridge these generations pretty well. We're not quite to the early 2000s where everything is all about computers, everything is all about the internet, and you know, we're not quite to the Facebook time in the in the early and mid-2000s yet, which is kind of nice, I feel like. We just trim everything away. That's what this movie has going on. We've got Lori, we've got a knife, we've got a mask, we've got the basics of what makes this whole thing really interesting. We've got that unresolved trauma for two decades going on here. It's just it feels lean. And and I really appreciate that. You gotta remember that this is the same year as like Carson Daly and TRL. Okay, and this hits different when you were there for that. All right, it Josh Hartnett has messy hair, and if you were around, you know Josh Hartnett and messy hair, that itself was a whole thing at the time. That was everyone oh god, everyone loved him, and I'm sure he's a great guy. Watching him hit the bear, you know, 20 something years later. I love it, absolutely love it. But like back then, this whole thing was a vibe. And when we finally make our way to the ending after this nice lean movie, it is a catharsis. You know, and this is it's not like a clear passing of batons, it's not this whole, you know, Gen X to millennial or anything like that. And and to me, it actually screams relevance for Gen X. Only five years later do we have Freaky Friday, and we get to see her in a very different light. But I I I love this for some reason. It's just it feels like again a Halloween of our generation. We grew up with this, we grew up with Resurrection, and I don't know. This is this is our boogeyman here. This is not the best version of him at all. At all. But this is probably Lori's best haircut, in my humble opinion, anyway. But it's not the scariest, you know, it's not the worst. It's that it's it's actually further up the list than many of the other Halloween films here. So because of that, I gotta say, you know, it's as much of a slash as some of those late 90s alt rock playlists.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Well, there you go. The millennial teenage horror, you know what I mean? There's not a whole lot to say that hasn't already been said about this movie without really diving into the details, right? I can definitely see this one in some ways being mixed feelings for horror fans, and especially horror fans of this franchise itself. I think there are a number of things that I think this movie got right, and there are some things that I feel like this movie kind of dropped the ball on. So, you know, the theme of this mixed bag thing with the ending and some of the themes of the movie, it's there. But overall, I've always just been kind of fond of this one, and it could be because of it being one of the Halloweens that came out when I was a kid, and that was the excitement and remembering all that and the nostalgia. But honestly, we said it before, we're gonna say it again. This one does feel like a true return to form, and I'm glad we moved away from all the culty bullshit and all the other bullshit that this franchise tried to throw at us, even though we love it for what it is. I loved bringing the story back to Lori and Michael and the character development of Lori, I think was perfect in this one. And I gotta say, I didn't really care for the look of Michael and his mask in this one, just like we've been talking about. I didn't like some of the other aspects of Michael either. I think something just felt off about him, but it still worked for what we needed it to. And even though we don't have that same grittiness that the original had, I think the more polished kind of scream vibes kind of work in its favor for this one because that's what we were all into at the time. And so, sure, it's more scream than shape, but when Lori picks up that axe, the film earns every drop of its legacy, and Lori is back, Michael is lurking, slicing his way back to the top, proving the influence that he has on other slashers and the slasher genre as a whole. So, how could it not be a slash?

SPEAKER_03 52:58

You know, you just made me think for a second there, Sean, that if we played the game of give this movie a different title of a movie that we've already reviewed this year, this one should have been called Bring Her Back.

SPEAKER_01 53:09

Nice. Love that.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Yeah. Listen, I fucking love this movie. And I love it not just because it revitalized a franchise. I mean, it did do that, but because it defined what a Halloween sequel could really be. It stripped away all that excess, it recentered the narrative on Lori's emotional reality, and it paved the way for the modern exploration of trauma and horror. And for sure, it's imperfect. Those masks are wonky. I also didn't love Dr. Loomis's voiceover, but this movie still feels profoundly necessary for this franchise. And at its heart, this is a story about survival evolving into agency. It dares to ask what happens after the credit patrol, after therapy ends, after 20 years of pretending not to look over your shoulder. And honestly, for the first time since 1978, this movie gives Lori Strode a chance to stop running. And what's great about this movie is it understood long before all studios really agreed on a formula that nostalgia alone isn't enough. You need re you need purpose, you need perspective, you need a reason to return and come back. And I do wish this movie could have lived up to the original vision that she had with John Carpenter and Deborah Hill. But even without that, what makes this movie so powerful is its empathy. It's a slasher that's built on the vocabulary of trauma. And instead of focusing on the monster, we're instead just looking at what surviving the monster does to a person. And that is just so beautiful to see. And it's painful to see. You have Lori's alcoholism, her hypervigilance, her fractured relationship with her son. All of this forms the psychological portrait of someone who has been frozen in 1978. And that's what makes this movie revolutionary for this franchise. It understands that trauma doesn't just belong to the survivor, it fucking radiates outward. And that's something that I can appreciate a lot differently now as an adult than I did when I was watching this as a kid who didn't know any better. This this experience that she had, it shapes her son, who resents her fear, her partner who never really fully understands, even though he wants to. And even her colleagues who honestly take her caution and they mystically for coldness. H2O isn't just about Lori fighting Michael again. It's about Lori finally confronting the version of herself that he created. So from a franchise perspective, this movie restores clarity. And even with its flaws, yeah, the mask, the issues, some of its brevity in some spots, the studio fingerprints that really fucked up some of the ideas here. Halloween H2O succeeds because it remembers the heart of horror and the heart of this franchise. And it's that fear means nothing without consequence, and survival means nothing without change. So yeah, I mentioned it 20 years later. Lori stops running, but for the first time since 1978, I'll even give a glow credit to 1981. The Halloween franchise managed to catch up with her humanity and it made itself a slash. Now, with that, Halloween H2O has earned a universal slash. Now you can find this movie a bunch of different places to watch. I hope that this is the one you're watching tonight on the night that he came home. Either way, join us in the second half so we can get into these spoilers and really identify why John Tate is such an asshole. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Founded by none other than Dean Lori Strode herself, Strode Survival Academy helps future final girls turn fear into a final exam they can actually pass. Whether you're being hunted by a masked man, haunted by generational trauma, or just can't tell if your therapist is secretly working for the shape, we've got you covered. Our hide slash heal program teaches all the fundamentals. Intro to axe throwing and fire alarms, because sometimes survival means setting off sprinklers and setting boundaries. Advanced wine studies for decompressing after 20 years of pretending Michael Myers drowned. Emergency Lockdown 101, featuring hands-on drills in closet fortification, and fake out decapitations. And our newest elective, PTSD Pilates, strengthening your core and your coping mechanisms. Need some inspiration? Just look at our alumni. Graduates have survived babysitting gigs gone wrong, hospital massacres, and even confusing continuity reboots. Here, we don't just teach survival, we slash the student loan system too, thanks to our H2O scholarship program. That's head-to-own safety training, baby. So enroll today at Strode Survival Academy where every midterm is a jump scare, every hallway is a chase team, and the only thing more relentless than Michael is our commitment to Final Girl Excellence. Strode Survival Academy. We don't run, we reboot.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

Now we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into all of that, Sean, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Well, this one is pretty tame. I think it's tying with the original Halloween 1978 with a total of seven kills in this movie. And even though this one isn't full of blood, guts, and gore, it does have a couple of kills worth talking about. So let's get into them. Which one of these kills got you in the Halloween spirit?

SPEAKER_02 59:22

It's the big one, right? It's gotta be the Michael Myers kill we get in this film. I'm just saying it's Will. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

The knife in the back and the raise up.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

I feel hold on. I feel like, yes, for sure. I feel like this one, in this movie, I think Michael goes through more shit than anybody else in this movie. If you look, and I I just want to highlight when I did this kill count, because you know, you describe like how they died, but if you look at the journey for Michael in this one, he was stabbed, beaten, tossed through a table, put in a body bag, driven off in a van, flung through a windshield, ran off the road, and pinned between the van and a tree, then finally decapitated with an axe. That's a journey.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

That's the Carlisle special, baby.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

That is a journey. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:06

Yeah, it really fucking is. And listen, again, we are taking this movie as it is. You know, I know, we all know, except for no Binx, you've seen Resurrection, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:19

That one I actually have not.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

Okay. Okay. Binx doesn't know because she hasn't fucking seen it. You we all know what the fuck is up with Michael Myers, okay? We all fucking know. Let's let it be a surprise for all our friends listening to this episode who haven't made it to resurrection, including Binx herself. We will chat offline about this. I promise. We'll get into the fuckery. You just gotta wait one more Halloween with us for resurrection. But 1000%, Michael Myers. What a shocking fucking moment for that decapitation. I do want to circle back though, because Mac, you mentioned Will. Will had the Halloween two nurse death, which was well, okay, Halloween to nurse death. That's two different deaths in this movie. One, that's nurse Marion from Halloween, well, Halloween one and Halloween two getting her throat slit for sure. But specifically that nurse who he stabs with a scalpel, no less, elevates, and then her fucking foot her shoe comes off. Yeah, we got that again with Will, and it was Jeff's kiss.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

This is just one of those iconic types of kills. It's it's linked to him just like the knife is linked to him. This is it's just like his MO, I feel like it's it's the most Michael Myers-worthy kill that we've gotten in many a film, I feel like that style that he has. You know, when he nails people to a to a wall or to a door, it it works just as well. But you've got to have the stab, you've got to have the lift. Well, you do from there, you can drop them down, you can put them on the door, whatever you want to do, Michael. You know, it's it's free reign at that point. But like if you're if you're gonna give him what he goes through in the whole rest of the film, he gets to get one of these. Okay, that's the rule. He gets to lift somebody up because it's satisfying, it's giving the people what they expect and what they really want. You gotta give the people what they want.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

When we initially did the Halloween 2 episode, sorry I just spoiled that for you, Binks. We talked about legally blonde, the bend and snap, except this is the stab and lift. And this is just a signature m maneuver, really. That and the uh impaling against the wall. Two two choice moves for Michael.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:38

I really just appreciate his forearm strength. Definitely a strong guy, doesn't look it with that kind of mask and face, but I gotta be honest, wasn't a fan of Will. When I thought that he killed LL Cool J, I thought, oh now he's really gotta go because he's an idiot trying to show off. Clearly isn't Michael Myers, buddy. But okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Interestingly enough, the moment that we first see the silhouette before Will then like goes to Lori and says, Look, look, look, like that first glance we have, they actually did film Michael Myers for that because they wanted to play with hallucination and what we see and what we don't see. Like, yeah, okay, yeah, we all know it's not gonna fucking be Michael because no one's gonna get a shot that fucking good. Well, if that gun was in Lori's hand, Ronnie would be dead. I'm so sorry, man. Her shot is way better than Will's. Ronnie is so lucky that Will is inept.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Lucked out with that friendly fire for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:34

Absolutely. I mean, to be very honest, I was like, oh my god, did they really kill like my favorite character? That's crazy. But no, I mean, they just killed my least favorite, so that worked out. But I I do want to go back to Michael Myers because really that decapitation, my jaw was dropped. I, as you described, I was very confused. And then I remembered, you know, the themes and the essence of Michael Myers and what he represents, so I was like, oh, okay, sure. But I've not seen Halloween Resurrection, but I do know it's called that, so I can only make assumptions based off of context clues.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:16

Oh, you don't even know. No, no, no. Oh no, here's the thing. Binx, I think it would be really funny if right now we could just memorialize this. I want you to make a prediction about Halloween resurrection based off what you know in this moment, in this moment only. Because the fucking closer we get, I don't want you to be tainted by people who listen to this episode and then try to reach out on Instagram and spoil it for you. Like, come on, just hit us. What do you think is the nature of Halloween resurrection?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:52

Okay. So I'm picturing that maybe the essence of evil somewhat just like binds him together from the grave and he's like a zombie kind of thing situation that like just is reborn type of situation. I I don't want to say like, you know, like Friday the 13th or, you know, a Freddy, where all of a sudden lightning strikes or a dog pisses on him, and then all of a sudden he comes out of the grave. But but I kind of am. I'm just hoping that maybe it's not so camp. Maybe it's like maybe all of the terrible things or evil or the traumas of Haddonfields have revived him or something. I don't know. My other theory is maybe this is I don't think that this is set in like too much of a future where this is Jason X vibes, so that can't be it, right? Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

You're using logic when you should be using Hollywood logistics. That's really I think I don't want to spoil a single thing, but I love I love what's going on in your brain right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

Yeah, being s here's what This moment has told us. This moment has told us that we need to do a watch-along recorded with your live reactions. And it needs to be in tandem with a Discord watch party that we can all really soak this in. Because I don't even know if I can maybe we do that thing, Binks where we time travel. We maybe we record this shit next week. Yeah. Maybe we record that shit next week and then we just publish it next year. Because holy shit!

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

We're gonna sit on that for all years.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:33

We've done it before. We'll do it again. Yeah, we do that with Black Christmas 2019. We recorded it like genuinely her first couple weeks on the fucking podcast, and then we shelved it for the following Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

That's wild. That's absolutely wild.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

And it worked beautifully. It was great. We really made boldest assumptions and predictions. So we're gonna have to do some manifestation for this next one.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Man.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:55

Yeah, man. I really don't know. I mean, I I can't believe that it could be off of what I've said. I what I've said is already kind of outlandish, right? And and what's funny is that our community is always like me with the same Binks thing, and I know that there is that for Buster Rhimes, but I've never really understood the con I've never, I don't know. I don't even know what who Buster Rhimes is in this. Like, what could he be? Is he a security guard? Is he Lori's best friend? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:23

Is he Michael Myers? We don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:25

Oh my gosh, this is this is perfection. This is perfection. This is excited. It's iconic. It's going to be such a great time. I don't know that I ever predicted I would have the experience of watching Halloween Resurrection for the first time with someone who's also seen almost none of the Halloween franchise. This is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

It is gonna be absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:46

But can you guys make me a promise? Hopefully, is the mask just as shitty? Because I I'm having a hard time with my favorite production situation here because the haircut, Lori's haircut was fantastic. Her overall look, strong, you know, MILF vibes. As far as my boy Mikey, that mask really was abysmal. I know we've said it a lot, but it really took me out.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

Yeah, can confirm that the mask is not a great mask in resurrection, and it gets a lot of hate, but I actually much prefer it over the H2O mask. I think it looks way better.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:23

Okay, that's good to know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

I will say, you know, there's a couple of kills, or there's one that we've mentioned, but there's a couple of kills in general, and it kind of ties into one of my favorite scenes, which we're gonna get to a little bit later. But I do absolutely love, and we have to mention, even though we don't see it happening, I love like when Nurse Marion runs into the neighbor's house and finds Jimmy sitting there with the fucking ice skate to the face. Because that, even though we don't get to see it, it's a great moment. We know Michael does Michael things and he's staging these bodies for you to find, and it was just a great moment to like run in and just see little Jimmy's face. Man, that ice skate right there, super, super good. And also leading to Nurse Marianne, which we've already talked about, getting her throat slit in almost like a very scream open moment, right? As they're trying to yell and get attention of the cops next door, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:21

That is 100% the Casey Becker moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:24

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

This entire opening scene, this cold open, is 1,000% Casey Becker. And again, that scream DNA all over the dead body of this franchise.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Yeah. And you know, it works. It's a great open for sure. Mackie even said it, it's one of the better opens in the franchise, and it's because we know that something like that has worked in the past and we love to see it. But I gotta tell you, with all these kills, it brings me to what my favorite part of the movie, like the favorite element of this movie, and it is this use of practical effects, right? But it's like this perfect use of practical effects, right? We we can certainly talk about the crisp cinematic look that gives this movie a distinct visual separation from its predecessors, but for me, definitely the use of practical effects in this one, it really highlights the film perfectly. I think it's the perfect balance of showing you just enough that makes this work so, so well. And they use practical effects like blood pumps and all of that for every single stabbing, throat slicing moment throughout this film. The less is more technique absolutely shines through and proves how effective it can be in this fucking movie. And it shows you just enough. I mean, they're using these great prosthetics, and you just gotta love it. There's really only that one CGI moment that we all know that we're that we're gonna talk about. I don't know when we want to talk about it, but they only really use that one fucking CGI moment with Michael's mask, and it is like absolutely fucking horrendous.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

Oh, I can assure you it's the worst part of the movie for me. So what the fuck? I and it's one of those, it's like it's a blink and you'll miss it, but the more you watch this movie, the more glaring it becomes. It's between that and the pink mask from Halloween 4. So there's just a lot of fuckery with the masks in this franchise, and I can be the first to admit it. That's okay. I I will say that when it comes to the production of this film, I both love and struggle with music. A, I love that we get Mr. Sandman so many times in this film. That is one where I A, I just love that song separately from Halloween as a whole. I'm a huge fan of Oldies, but I even think about when we had the Halloween 2 house and Halloween horror nights, they played that at the beginning of the house, and it was just such a beautiful way to spend your time in line. But I think about the Halloween theme and the moments that it swells, but then I also think about how it weaves other music in it. And I don't love the fact that we just get Marco Beltrami's cues from Scream just jumped into this. It is just straight up laid in. And those are the moments where I'm like, uh, okay, well, here we are. Now, where it does redeem it a little bit, and this might feel to some folks like a let me just beat you over the head with how many psycho references we could possibly fucking have, but we also have musical notes from Psycho, which I absolutely loved.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:35

There's so many references, I feel like there's like a good, at least, I don't know, a few really strong references to Psycho in this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

Okay, let's just really quick go with it, right? We all know that Jamie Lee Curtis is the daughter of Janet Lee, and her being the daughter of one of the stars of Psycho was partially a reason why she was cast. It was bringing a lot of uh prominence and renown to a very low-budget film, right? So we have Janet Lee in this film. Originally, I believe this was supposed to be PJ Souls, but she was waffling on the fucking decision about whether or not she should be back in a Halloween film as a different character. That was gonna be weird for her. So they offer it to Janet Lee. Janet Lee's character is named Norma. Who's Norma? Norma Bates, Norman Bates's mother. She's also driving the car with the same license plate from the original one. Now, in addition to that, of course, you have Ronnie just fucking screaming, psycho.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:33

It's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:35

There's just so much of it. There's so much of it. There's even more. And there's there's callbacks to the rest of the franchise as well. We'll we'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:44

If we're gonna continue in production though, I gotta talk about the softness visually of this film because maybe it's just something of the time. Maybe it's film. I think it's film, right? I love when people actually shoot on film. There's nothing wrong with digital, but like it's got this perfection that just is not it's not right, right? It doesn't feel the same as the films that we grew up with. And I think you can go through stills and you can see it. There's a combination of like controlling the saturation, especially in the shots where we want to be supposedly in low light, but we know this is Hollywood. So they've they've got this like kind of softened colors. They've got the lighting where we can still see everything clearly. It's not too, too dark in most shots. And then we have this the softening of everything. It almost it's not quite soap opera softening because that would be that would be too much. But it's got this nice feeling of film green. People love going for that in filters these days on their social media, and it there's a reason because it speaks to you. It feels like a memory, it feels like something deeper and darker, and I don't know what it is, but I don't I don't know how they did this with the color, I don't know how they did this with the lighting, but we you could pull up a single shot of pretty much any scene in this film, you could post it on Instagram today, and people would probably love the way that it looks because they just nailed it. It speaks to a lighter time, and that works here because you know, we have this threat, of course, of Michael Myers, and half of, I would say 99% of the people don't believe it or don't, you know, don't think it's a big deal. That one percent, that one person knows that it is, and they've got this color spiked through the red on the kids' uniforms again, speaks to that threat just kind of looming in the background. There's something about the setting here with the with the school. It's got that tan beige, kind of boring bluch, but the the red that shows up throughout is just a good way to give it that little bit of of blood that we know is going to come later. And so everything's soft, every everything's light, everything's kind of you know, kind of a little bit of grain over the top, and then you know, you've got this punch to the face of there will be blood.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:51

I couldn't say it better myself because I think that what impressed me the most is you really do feel like it's Halloween, like it's fall. We talked about it earlier. I and I think a lot of that has to do with the cinematography, fill like filming on film, like you said, everything. So couldn't say it better myself. I think that that's a part of these films that I'm curious as to like what does that improve? Like, I find that there are a couple moments here that I do remember very clearly from my childhood. One scene in particular, like a shot specifically, of course, is Lori looking through that window door, the circular window door, and her expression on her face. I do remember that very clearly as a kid. And I've even like drawn it when I was younger, you know, like practicing and stuff. So I I know that particular moment now. Of course, the context of it got lost on me. But I think it says a lot to the cinematographers that are taking part in this franchise. They are capturing just the bits and pieces that they can that can withstand the test of time for obviously decades that this franchise has been going on. So this movie, I wasn't expecting for it to feel like I was there, like really feeling the sensation of fall, the grain, the warmth, everything. Like it's school time. And being from Miami, you think that I know what anything like that's like? Of course not. It barely feels like October most times, right? It's hard for us to feel that sense of autumn. So I really did appreciate that a lot. But I just wanted to highlight as specifically that one scene and that one still, because I think that it really impressed me both from a production level, but also, you know, that's the scene that I remember from this movie. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily my favorite, but I would say that it's just like a moment where you can really feel that tension and that suspense that I love like the first movie for, right? But if I were to highlight a favorite scene, it's anything that has L Cool J in it. Ronnie, that man had me laughing left and right. I was some dialogue, I was like, wait a minute, I forgot that he said some of these things. I've seen a couple memes here and there, but I was cracking up.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:07

Yeah, no, he is such a star and honestly, just he has a lot of heart to this movie. I can't wait to explore more about him later. But he talks about how much this movie just feels like fall. This movie feels like Halloween, and that is undoubtedly felt in the moment where I think Sean and I actually have probably the same favorite scene, which is the opening scene. It's a complete master stroke, it's a bridge between eras. It honestly captures everything that H2O is trying to accomplish. It goes a little heavy-handed on the screen, Casey Becker of it all, but we start with Nurse Marion returning home, and before you have even a single line of dialogue, the mood just feels steeped in legacy because you have Mr. Sandman playing, it's a cue, it immediately sets the temporal anchor. And it's this moment that really sets the stage for this being both a continuation and a reckoning.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

I mean, yeah, it's just like you're saying, from the opening of Mr. Sandman playing to the knife shot going in the air, only to go down into the pumpkin to start carving all the way to Nurse Marion, like getting home, realizing that she had the break-in, right? Feeling like it might have been resolved after Jimmy goes in there and ruffles around and steals some beers, you know what I mean? And she goes in and realizes that like something's not right. And we she doesn't see, but we see Michael lurking in the back, going coming out of a closet or wherever the fuck he was, lurking around the house, trying to figure out and piece together where Lori's at, you know what I mean? And he like slips out the back door, it's spooky, it's eerie, she gets spooked, she runs back to the neighbor's house. That's where we're running into Jimmy with the ice skate in the face. I just realized as I'm like thinking about how this all plays out, that this movie had probably more fake out jump scares than it actually had jump scares, which is kind of funny. But man, what a great moment! And then the and then Jimmy's friend getting knifed in the back as he falls onto her as he she opens the door to run out of that. Like all these different things that are happening as she's trying to like fend off Michael, and then we get that super, super Casey Becker moment where she is trying to fend off Michael, sees the cops going into her house. Now she's breaking the window, trying to yell that their attention, and before she can even really yell, her throat gets slit. And that's yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:33

Yeah, it's these so close and yet so far away that really makes this scene fucking hurt. And you want better for her, she deserves better. And honestly, especially when you then later learn that she was living there taking care of Dr. Loomis because that was his house, right? She is carrying the burden of continuity. Nurse Marion is. And man, you talk about when Michael comes out, he's slow, he's steady, he's creeping, and again, it really gives us back that level of simplicity, which I absolutely love. And what I even appreciate in addition to this, right? We often have this entire opening scene. So we have her dying, we have her neighbors dying, but then we also get the setup of these cops coming in and giving us a little bit of the lore and confirming that his body was never found. And then you have this lead detective who's reframing and reminding you because yeah, it's 1998. 1978 sounds so far away. Especially just think about like what society was like, right? It felt like two different eras completely. But he mentioned he would be younger than I am. I was 15 when he killed his sister in 63. And you know what this shit made me do? This shit made me fucking do math because I realized that Lori Strode was 17 in the original film and this movie was 20 years later. She's 37. I'm 35, motherfucker. What? I could be what doing this math is not friendly. I don't like it. But I do love how it makes you reframe this entire experience because here I am thinking like, man, these people are old as fuck. Nah, it's me. I'm old, but still young, but old.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:29

Oh man, that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:30

I do have a question about the rest stop scene because talking about age and time and I don't know, temporal loops, but like I know that we see this scene or this type of scene later in the latest films. Did we not see this previously as well? Is this the first time that we've seen this type of scene?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:52

In this movie, yes, in this franchise.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:54

Well no, it in this franchise because I'm watching this and I'm like, I'm having days of the movie. I believe.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

We do, and then we also get it in Rob Zombies. Yeah, and we get it in Rob Zombies. Joel Grizzly, bitch. Yeah, that happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

But it's just it's weird because as I'm watching it, I I don't know if it's like a weird metacognitive thing where I'm like thinking about like, am I like going crazy? But I also kind of like it because somebody escaped. They had the horror of facing him even for like a split second when they saw his feet, but then they they get out of it, which is which is you know lucky for them for sure. But then the car that they were driving that who's driving that shit that feels like a callback. What is that coming? That's gotta be something from another film.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:40

Who knows? Where'd you drive that thing? Where'd you get that fucking page?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:43

It looks like the fucking Jeepers creepers shit. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:47

Yeah, but so strange.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:49

Yeah, this scene is really interesting to watch knowing how badly he fucked up those podcasters in 2018 after being cooped up all those years. And obviously, that scene in itself in 2018 was a nod back to this scene, and then it was also a nod back to the gas station that we later see in the original Thorn trilogy. But man, watching him uh go through that purse, take the keys, and then the mother sees him turn back and he's thinking, he's making a decision, and he's deciding it's not worth his time. He continues on his pursuit. And what's interesting is seeing how selective Michael is with his kills in early on in this film because did he have to kill the fucking neighbors? No, but he was being campy, he was just fucking doing the most that he could, but he conserved his energy because he didn't kill them, he didn't kill Ronnie, and he had plenty of opportunity to.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:46

Very true, very true. I do I do also want to highlight a moment in this movie, and it's the moment that Lori is like leaving her office at night and sees Michael down the street at the end of the street, and there's this, you know, she's she's kind of battling with herself. She's like, Am I imagining this? Because she does see Michael pop up, like that's part of her trauma, right? We already saw it earlier in the film where she had to saw the reflection in the mirror, had to close her eyes, and it was gone. And now she's doing the same thing, closing her eyes, still there, closing her eyes, still there, closing her eyes, and then he does disappear, and you know, the counselor, counselor will, or whatever pops out of nowhere and kind of like, you know, distracts her. And so she probably is thinking in that exact moment, like, oh, okay, it was just kind of like the trauma of my imagination or whatever, but what a great moment to really dive into the psyche and how he's fucking playing with her mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:46

And of course, we see him as soon as Will turns back around, we see him walking back into the fucking shadows, and that's what I actually really appreciate about Steve Minor's decisions when making this film, because his decision to do this moment, and then later on, when and we mentioned earlier, where Will shoots towards Ronnie, that first initial glimpse, we actually do have Michael Silhouette. So he is constantly mind fucking the audience the way that Lori herself is also mind-fucked.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:18

But if we're gonna talk about Lori and the shape and her dealing with it, we gotta talk about the gate because that scene was supposed to be her catharsis, right? And this is this is I gotta call it out again, the cinematography here, because the choice to go with that like lovely widescreen PanaVision works out really well when they're when they're rolling up to the gate super quick, and she hops out and realizes what has to be done. And it's just like that callback to the Frankenstein moment from earlier in the film, which was also a brilliant touch. But she's like, No, you're done. This is mine, I gotta deal with this, lock them in here with me. Loved it. I'm like, yeah, this is I forget the the character from that comic book movie, you know, from was it Watchmen, where it's you know, I'm I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me. Rorschach. She was she was like, Yeah, Rorschach, yeah. And and so that's what was going on here. As she was having that moment, she was like, No, Michael's getting dealt with tonight.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:08

Evil dies tonight.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:10

Evil dies tonight. And you know, it is just it's all of that when you think of it. Like, and Binks, you mentioned the moment that Lori sees Michael and they stare face to face through the window and the door, like probably one of the more iconic little moments that happen in the film because you're all waiting for it. Like you know he's here, but she doesn't know for sure. She knows, but she hasn't seen him, and it's the moment that they see each other and the face that she has, and it's just a really iconic moment. But it really just highlights Lori Strode as a character in this movie, and coming back for this one just felt so right. Jamie Lee Curtis's performance added such emotional depth and served as this like thematic anchor for this film. I think the psychological effects that Lori is suffering from, the trauma you feel. All of that. And it's kind of like I don't want to say it. It maybe it is the first time that you truly feel all of the effects that she's going through because it is like 20 years later, and you are seeing how she's been having to cope with this and she has kids, and it's like this whole thing, right? So it's it's a very much a different thing as you go on this ride of trauma and paranoia and fear and this moment of badassness when she has to fight this fucker to the death. You know, you go on this emotional roller coaster with her, and it's great.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:31

You really do, and I think that's what also made me struggle a little bit in 2018 because that movie retcons Halloween 2 and H2O and everything in the section, right? So we have Lori on lockdown after one night in 1978 that we didn't even get to see the whole hospital end of. But in this, we know that she went through the initial shit during her babysitting gig, and then she survived the hospital. And it almost like it gives a lot more credence to her trauma, to her paranoia. And that's not to that's not to poo-poo on Lori's experience in Lori's experience in 2018, but it is a staggering difference in how much you're reacting to and growing from. And that's what I love about this one, right? Even when you think about all the characters surrounding her in this movie, she's finally being treated like a full human being again, right? So she's a mother, she's a professional, she's an alcoholic, she's a survivor. But the film doesn't shy away at all from how all of those identities clash. And that is what's really interesting. Especially like you think about her relationship with John, that's the generational cost of trauma, right? Because he's, I mean, in my opinion, I thought he was just an asshole, but yeah, he's a rebellious teenager, but he's also the product of a life shaped by paranoia and overprotection. And I think me recognizing how I've been shaped by my own flavors of overprotection, like I think, okay, well, maybe John's not that much of an asshole after all. But even the supporting characters, right? They're for sure broadly drawn, but they serve their purpose, which is to populate Lori's really fragile world.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:17

They did have like some fun, I feel like, with what they did with some of these characters, though, because Ronnie's whole shtick with being like a writer and he's doing it while he's at work and he's talking to his wife on the phone like the whole time, giving her the play-by-play, and then she's getting more invested into the story the more he develops it. That was just like a fun touch. Because at first, when he, you know, when he first starts reading it, you're like, that's pretty gross, dude. Like, how are you gonna write it like that? But I guess for a lot of romance novels, that's on par. It's just it's goofy, it's kind of silly, but it feels like his character at least is actually truly into it and is trying to make this work. And the fact that we don't leave it alone, that like he brings it up and we take it all the way to like the last scenes of the movie, is kind of like a little bit of payoff, honestly.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:03

Yes, I agree. I think that what I find refreshing about having a character like that, especially in a movie like this one where it's supposed to be like terror and you know, slasher vibes, obviously, is that it's kind of like the antithesis of the entire thing, right? We're talking romance and there's nothing romantic going on here, not a single bit, right? It's the opposite kind of sentiment. It's the levity in a very otherwise traumatic scenario replaying itself. And all for that to be at the very end, him realizing the real story that sells, the real bit is this, is the story of trauma and hurt, not romance and butterflies and rainbows and sensuality. No, who wants any of that? That's not interesting. What's interesting is trauma and hurt and fear and pain. So I find that to be like the bit because we all are lovers of horror. We love consuming this stuff and love getting our BPM really high. And sometimes romance and like comfort isn't the thing that we're seeking out. So it's an interesting little bit to I I interpret it as like not only to provide humor and levity in the 90s, of course, and having someone like L. Cool J obviously like just automatically making you think, okay, that's a good casting for that, of course, but just to kind of provide a bit of commentary on like the overall genre and the theme of Michael Myers and Halloween and what its place is in horror.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:44

And when you go further into the other, even like smaller characters, Jimmy, for instance, the fact that we had JGL, a little baby JGL here, that was rewarding. That was 90s nostalgia for sure. And like his personality as a little 90s preteen teenager thing, but he's also kind of decent because he is helping out his neighbor. That was nice. They didn't just blow her off. They're like, Yeah, you know, we'll go through with the hockey stick and then you know tear up her house and then whatever, we'll just get out of here. But like at least his friends stuck around or wanted to stick around, you know. I guess I don't know. But it was just like a fun way to like throw him into it. Yes, but at the same time, he did clear some rooms, you know. So it was, you know, he was doing at least kind of.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:28

Well, he also did a real shit job. Can we also just talk about the fact that the house definitely had power when he was in there because of the refrige? And then Michael really must have been dancing in and out of those rooms waiting for a very specific situation because he then cuts the power between the moment that he leaves the house and then she enters the house. Your boy is just fucking efficient.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

The timing, the timing is perfect. Man, yeah, yeah. The smaller characters add a lot of fun for sure. Even the friends, and you know, I know we talked about Ron the security guard adding a lot of comedy to the film. Also has to be probably the worst security guard ever because he literally just opens the gate. Like the car shows up and he's like, Oh, hold on, let me just don't yell through the gate. Let me open this gate and see what's going on. Like that, whoever that was could have just rammed right through at that point. So, literally, probably the worst security guard to have.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:24

I think he opened the gate because he saw nobody was sitting behind the driver's seat. Even worse, even worse. Yeah, I think he's better as a security guard than most fucking cops we see in horror movies. So leave Ronnie alone, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:36

The bar is low. The bar is low, but you know, when you're talking on the phone the entire time andor opening the gate for anybody, not the best security guard, but hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:50

He is expressing himself creatively, Sean, and he deserves it. I am listening Ronnie can do no wrong. I don't care how many times he missed steps on his job, he can do no wrong. I'm here for him. But I also just want to go back again to Janet Lee's Norma because man, what a special moment for Jamie Lee Curtis to be on screen with her mom and for her mom to just have this cute little note of giving maternal advice. Like that's gotta be special to look back on in retrospect. I just really, really love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:23

It is very cool, definitely awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:25

Not so special, but also advice get yourself someone who looks at you the way that Molly looks at John. I don't know what it is, was their actual chemistry, not sure. Michelle Williams, you are a goddess, but the way that they interacted, maybe it was just the writing they had, that they kept things really simple here. I appreciated her as a character, I liked her. I would have had more fun rooting for her than for John, just saying that.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:47

Yeah, yeah. Incredible to me though that I didn't really care about either of them. I mean, they're good characters, like don't get me wrong. I don't have anything against them necessarily, but Lori for me is just such center stage that all those teenagers could have died and I would be like, all right, that's fine. I'm cool. You already killed Jamie, you already fucked up one of Lori's kids. At this point, she doesn't have a great track record.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:10

And I gotta go back to the thing with Will, because I know Banks was happy about it, but I'm actually cuz I was kind of bummed about Will. All right, I am like I I liked him up until he said calm down. When he said calm down, no, sir, we don't say that. Okay, you just you have to learn not to say those words.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:26

Yeah, I also thought that he talks about being a really great listener, but then as she's pouring her heart out to him, he could just continues to kiss, and it like takes him way too long that to realize that she's confessing to him all this shit because she describes that she faked her death and all this shit, right? That she is she is Lori Strode, and then he said, Oh yeah, the babysitter murders, right? Like he he's like then talking about didn't didn't the didn't didn't she die? Motherfucker, what stop thinking with your dick for five seconds? You are a guidance counselor, you you boast about being a listener and you're showing that you weren't fucking listening, my guy. What are you doing? I also think it's weird that he talks about getting his nipples pierced. I know it's a fucking joke, obviously. And like I get the girls joking with him, but I don't know that I love him joking with her with them in that way.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:21

If my father joked with me that way, or just an adult man counselor joked with me that way, I feel like report HR just saying it's a little bizarre. But Chris, you're absolutely right. That's when I said he's got to go. Because if two plus two is four and four plus four is eight, I just like, sir, how are you not connecting these dots? How are you not connecting these dots? I I no, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:48

Okay, so initially, with their dynamic and him being one he him being someone who wants to listen, like I do genuinely believe that he cares so deeply for her. I don't doubt that. But it's also clear that she has a fear of intimacy and a fear of trusting, right? Even if it's not directly rooted in this, but there's so much that's happening. Obviously, she also had her shit with John's dad. So there's a lot happening here. But when you then see how he acts when she's trying to tell him everything, I'm just like, oh well, I mean, I get I get being afraid of fucking intimacy if this is how you're acting all the 90% of the time that this movie isn't fucking playing. Like, imagine what kind of shit he was doing leading up to this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:35

Potentially, but at the same time, if you were making out with your girlfriend and she's like, Oh yeah, okay, so by the way, I actually changed my identity and was this other person who was in these murders and was attacked and survived, it would kind of throw you for a loop. So it does kind of bother me that he doesn't react in any sort of way, aside from disbelief, like, oh, this is a shtick, we're playing a game. Oh, but I'm into it. But she's not like making it seem that way, bro. So he like doesn't pick up on it two sentences in.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:04

I need to be so clear that if I'm making out with a woman and she says that shit to me, I'm stopping the making out. And I'm gonna be like, what the fuck is going on here?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:12

Yeah, hit pause.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:13

It sounds like something more important is happening.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:15

How does that not feel like cold water on your face and your dick? Like, I just don't understand. That's feels like that would just kill the mood instantly. Listen, this has inspired me. I thought that I had one worst part, and now I think that he's the worst part. That's where I've landed, that's where I've arrived.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:33

Yeah, listen, the worst part for me continues to be the CGI mask, but also I really, really, really disliked the voiceover that we got for Dr. Loomis. You know, obviously I love an homage to him. I think it's beautiful. I think the 2018 Halloween execute a little bit better. I think Halloween kills nailed him visually, but not in his voice. There's just something so iconic about his voice, and it continues to be a thing that I would rather see him visually than hear his voice because it's never gonna hit the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:09

I'm with you though, it is either just the actual CGI mask moment or just the fact that we see the fucking googly eyes of Michael and not the dark blackness and all that shit. Like, I do not need to see wide-eyed fucking skin around the eyes through the mask, like you just fucking plopped this out of a fucking spirit Halloween or some shit, kind of Michael. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:33

Yeah, no wish brand, Michael Myers for us. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:37

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:38

I gotta say, there's wasted potential here though for Michael. There was a lot of moments where he could have been going further than he did. I, you know, have said in the past I love a good, like, bloodless film, but we had props that we could have made such better use of with some of these kills. The fact that the corkshoe did not end up in some sort of orifice or an ear or an eye or whatever it is, that's wild to me. Why? Why did why did you let that happen? You know, that was like an obvious one. The fact that we had the garbage disposal and a hand did not end up in there, although, you know, we get there eventually. But like, you know, come on, there's there's stuff that can be done here. No one got crushed by the gate out front. That's crazy, right? Come on. There's just we we missed out on making making Michael, I think, a little bit more gruesome. Doesn't have to be gory, but he could have been more intimidating had he just been really off the wall.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:32

You know, I can't remember the last time Mac asked for more. Usually he asked for less.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:37

But you know, not more gore, just more creativity. And I think maybe this is because I was I was talking about another unrelated yet adjacent film with a friend recently where somebody perhaps gets you know bent in half like a like a pretzel. And uh I'm I'm just thinking while watching this, like creativity goes a long way.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:58

What are you thinking about? Here we go, Jason.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:01

No, actually, but Jason adjacent, just saying yoga. That's right, that fucking movie go a long way. Yeah. So yeah, I think a little bit of creativity could have could have gone just a little bit further. Nothing, nothing too crazy. I don't need to see people cut in half, you know, from from head to tail or anything like that. But like you got the props, they're right there. You set us up, and then you know, we do it off screen and we don't do anything too super creative. That being said, though, I I gotta still say though that this is one of the Halloweens of our generation, of the millennials. It takes us back. I want to go put in like a discman somewhere into my in my pocket in a cargo pants and you know go for a walk and and have some cost headphones on. There's just there's just something about it. I would watch it again, for sure. And I think I've never really watched movies like this in the different timelines where you just pick out and choose the ones that actually link together really well, and that would be a fun experiment.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:55

It for sure would be. I gotta say, I'm gonna watch this one again because I watch it every year, at least once minimum, because we get through the franchise every year. It's just something that you gotta do in the spooky season. You just gotta plop on some Halloween films and you gotta let them play, and you gotta grab some popcorn, maybe some candy, maybe a beverage of your choice, but it's something that's always gonna happen. It's like clockwork.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:20

Yeah, I do hope that the next time I watch this is when I go visit Sean soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:23

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:24

Yeah, I do watch this medicine multiple times in October every single year, specifically because I have this nasty habit of not just watching it one and done, but I fucking re-watch every variation of the timeline. And when it comes time to reset the timeline, you better believe I go back to Halloween the original and I watch it again. So I love this film. I still want to work on the cut that takes Halloween one, Halloween two portions of this movie, and then lets all that build up to Halloween 2018. I think it can be done. I think it could be out there.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:02

Believe in you. Listen, I, on the other hand, I did enjoy this movie, but I think for me, it's like I've already mentioned, overall, I revisit Halloween, and that's kind of like where I'm at with all 13 of these movies that feel so daunting. It's not a surprise to anyone that when these franchises have a ton of movies, I kind of like get a little bit over it. I think maybe Saw is the only one that I've gotten so far, and I don't really know even know why, actually. But it's just a little bit tough. And what's difficult about this one is that I just don't understand the different timelines. I feel like I'm I I feel like actually that would be something I would be usually into, but for some reason it's a little bit too intimidating here. But this was fun. Like I think if I had to throw something on in the background or if someone wanted to watch it, I would for sure be down. But when it comes to Halloween season, I feel like I'm always just gonna go to the first one. But who knows? Maybe resurrection will change my mind and I'll want to rewatch this entire timeline constantly.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:07

Oh, I cannot wait to see how that turns out for you, Binks. But for now, there you have it, folks. Halloween age 20, 20 years later, has another universal slash. Now, we certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:23

If you want to find out what's on the other side of Haddonfield, consider supporting the show. You can visit patreon.com slash hackerslash and enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B sides, which are free sides for the spooky season, movie nominations, and of course, live shows.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:44

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, I am not responsible for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:48

Everyone's entitled to one good scare.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:05

Thinks we're gonna be super spoiler free, specifically for you. But Sean, I think it raised an interesting question for you regarding some of our other horror villains that we've seen.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:17

You know, it's it is an interesting question, right? I'm even watching this one back, and I'm like, every time I see this outcome, it still kind of surprises me a little bit. And then I think to myself, how the fuck did this make a comeback? Like, how did they how did they bring this franchise back to life? And then I'm like, man, there's probably a lot of absurd moments throughout horror franchise history where they brought fucking franchises back in the most ridiculous ways, right? And so really the question is like, which one of these horror franchises do you think had the most, you know, infamous, notorious, fucking absurd re whatever the fuck you want to call it, like bringing the villain back to life, bringing the franchise back to life. There's so many, actually, when you think about it, there's some ridiculous shit that's gone on.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:10

And I say because I don't know how much I could even contribute, right? But I already mentioned my theories, and I'm not saying that he's gonna get revived by a dog pissing on his grave, but what I am saying is that that did happen in horror, and that did occur, and that did revive.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:25

Yeah, I prepared notes just for this occasion, and Bing, you you nailed it, the dog piss really was an iconic moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:32

It was. Dog piss is a check mark, that is absurd.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:38

Okay, let's walk through this. Freddie Krueger, go back to the Genesis, and I want to treat this almost Sean, just to your point, when he talks about all the shit that Michael went through before getting decapitated in this movie. Freddy Krueger was burned alive, dragged into hell, buried, resurrected by flaming dog piss.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:01

Flaming dog piss, and then brought back repeatedly through dream logic, possession, and fan belief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:10

Uh reborn through a dream fetus.

unknown 1:48:13

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:14

The dream fetus. Let's not forget.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:17

The dream fetus. Okay. They brought this fucker back in a dream fetus for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:22

I forgot about the fucking fetus. Yep, you're right. The fucking fetus really got him. Holy shit. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:28

Okay, how about Jason? Lord help us. Drowns as a kid, somehow grows up into an undead killing machine. Let's also remember dead as a kid, but also maybe not because is Zach had Jason in Friday 13th part two. Then he he is who he is. But by Jason lives, he's literally fucking resurrected by lightning.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:52

Lightning, Frankenstein style.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:54

Yeah. But wait, there's more because he later gets melted into toxic waste. He gets blown apart. He is the fucking like little slithering worm. Not unlike a fucking dream fetus. He gets cryogenically frozen and then he gets reborn as Jason X in space. All before Freddie versus Jason, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:15

Yes, for sure. Absolutely absurd. But let's also not forget the journey that our boy Chucky went on, okay? Because this little fucker has been melted, exploded, and shredded to pieces multiple fucking times, this little guy. Okay? But Bride of Chucky just fucking says, fuck off with all of that shit, and just literally says, we're gonna find pieces of them and use a combination of voodoo and a fucking car battery to resurrect this little fucker. Okay? Because of course, of course she did, right? That's uh it's just how it happens, but that is absolutely Absolutely ridiculous. Just a couple of pieces and a car battery. Just give me some fucking duct tape and whatever the fuck, and we'll piece this fucker back together.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:08

Yeah, you know, I was just thinking about the fucking Chucky movies where like he's like destroyed in a vat, but then a little bit of his blood gets into the fucking plastic, melt melted plastic, and then he gets resurrected that way. Fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:20

I want to say two things with that, actually. Now that you've said that, one, you're talking ginger dead man to me. Two, everything that you described, Sean, especially with Bride of Chucky, made me realize that I've never heard something more Cuban in my life. That sounds like some street stuff that's happening right now, present day in my town. Put some things together, attach it to a little Nissan Altima car battery, and it's a wrap.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:43

I have one to add to this discussion, and it is technically kind of it is technically kind of between genres, but that's alien resurrection. Because is it actually still horror by that point, or is it just sci-fi action thriller? Probably sci-fi action thriller. However, it's related to a horror film originally, and really what we're brought back by is corporate greed. So there's the meta. Yeah, and the root of all things corporate greed. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:09

Oh wow. I am curious. Well, I say this as a layer of curiosity for our folks who are listening as this episode actually releases publicly on October 31st. This question has already been answered, but the fucking grabber, he got got in blackphone, and all of a sudden this motherfucker's back in black phone too. So can't wait to see how that goes.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:33

Look, go off the rails, okay? Go crazy with it because why not? No one else says just do it, man. Just whatever you want to make him Freddie Krueger, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:42

Give us fucking Jennifer Check back.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:43

If we're gonna do all that, you know what I'm saying? Listen to the people and give us Jennifer Check back. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:49

You might as well. But there's also, yeah, I mean, we'll have to see what they end up doing with the black phone, which we're super excited about. But I gotta say, there are some like we like you know, just any of the thought you were dead moments, like you even think of like the I Know What You Did Last Summer, right? Like we know that Ben Willis got harpooned and drowned in the first one. Like, we know this happened, right? But in the sequel, apparently he picks up some deep sea cardio and he's just fucking fine, right? He just fucking meanders about out of the water, and then as an added bonus, we just get a secret sun for good measure. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:52:28

But then he also becomes a fucking ghost who goes to Colorado, and I'll always know what you did last summer.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:33

Yeah, he becomes a mountain man. Goes from goes from the a fisherman to a fucking mountain man.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:39

Landlocked.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:41

Love it. We absolutely love it. I'll never let that one that one will never go, and that'll never let me.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:49

You know what? Fucking give us Sky Riley back. See, I'm just I'm gonna take this as the opportunity where if we can get fucking Jason coming back from lightning or Freddie coming back through dog piss, give us back the women in horror who never should have died.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:03

That'd be like a reunion tour.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:04

It's an honest take. We haven't had uh some honestly, we need that. You know, we need some characters, some slasher uh characters, especially, like brought back to life in ridiculous ways. Dog peeing, how about dog pooping? Why not? Like logical next up.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:17

Okay, Nancy. She died in Dream Warriors. How are we getting her back? Come come now.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:22

Bring Nancy back. Come on. I don't know how we're getting her back out some ridiculous way. Who knows? Maybe maybe she can maybe she can infiltrate some this fucking dream fetus fucking strategy and fucking rebirth herself within Freddie's fucking dreams.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:38

Yeah, give us back Glenn from the original Nightmare on Elm Street. Give us Johnny Depp back.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:43

Oh my god.