417: The Phantom of the Opera (1925)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

This is 100% the shit HR warned you about. This person won't leave me alone. They're just writing me notes.

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Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. I have brought you here Five Cellars Underground because I love you. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

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Totally killer unintended.

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We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

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For long, weary months I have awaited this hour.

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This week we're checking out a film that's turning 100 years old.

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100 years old. And if you support the show, you'll also get to check out our B-side at the end of this episode, where we get into some hilarious places we would like to haunt.

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Decades before Universal's monsters became household names, one film helped define what horror could look like on screen. On November 15th, 1925, audiences were introduced to a film based on a 1910 novel, and it brought them gothic terror long before even sound or dialogue could do the heavy lifting. The film stars Lon Cheney as its leading man, who famously took creative control of many of his own scenes. Cheney was known for his groundbreaking work in makeup and prosthetics, and he created one of Cinema's most enduring images by transforming himself into a deformed composer who lives beneath the Paris Opera House. It's there he becomes obsessed with a young woman and guides her career while hiding from the world above. This landmark piece of early horror is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year and remains both a cornerstone of Universal's legacy and a testament of Cheney's artistry. This week we're talking about Phantom of the Opera. Now, Sean, obviously you're the classic horror carnour, but how familiar are you with this version?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Uh it has arguably been a long time since I've sat down to watch this one. I have seen it many times, but it's been years since I've watched this one, and I know I was talking to you about this the other day, or no, we were talking about a completely different movie. Sorry. But Ari loves to watch the Gerard Butler version of this movie. So we watch that one a lot, and I feel like because of that, I never get around to watching this one as often as I would like. But it's a shame because this one was such an influence on the genre. You know what I mean? Like it's it really was groundbreaking.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

It really was. And let me tell you, I've seen this one before, but like you, not as often as I should. I feel like I've also never seen this movie perform. I've also never seen this story performed live on stage, but I have seen what feels like every other variation of Phantom of the Opera, right? We have this movie, we have the 1943 movie with Claude Rains, we had the 1989 movie with Robert England, which I just watched recently. I think I just bought the Blu-ray last year. There's the 2004 with Gerard Butler, then you got all the weird shit. You got Phantom of the Paradise, you have a slasher called Phantom of the Mall Eric's Revenge.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

True.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

And you also have the Disney Channel original movie, Phantom of the Megaplex.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

Ooh, you know, we love a good Disney Channel original movie here.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Yeah, you know, under wraps, you just can't miss. You can't miss.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

Oh man. Well, the good news is, is you know, we just talked about they're they're actually going to be touring Phantom of the Opera, so we might actually get to see it on stage soon.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yes, my goal is to finally go. So the tour starts November 2025. So that's genuinely this month, like within this next week or two. And when Allie and I first met, I had shared with her that I've never seen a show live on Broadway or like just live in general. Right. And she was like, Oh my god, we have to go see Phantom of the Opera. It's my favorite one. And then she was devastated to learn that it wasn't touring. So I'm trying to arrange her. I was just texting her, but I think she has like the show we wanted to go to. I think she has something else going on. So I'm gonna try to find a good city that we can line up for.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, I'm sure it's gonna be playing in multiple areas in Florida. I would imagine they're gonna be playing in Miami, you would think.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

No, no, well, they must be playing at the Kravitz Center, you would think, maybe in West Palm.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

No, there's nothing in Florida.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

What the fuck? Florida is such a big state. There's major cities all over the place, and for some reason, for some reason, it doesn't matter, I guess, if it's Broadway or if it's bands, they're just not coming around here.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Here's the full lineup: Baltimore, Maryland, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, New Orleans, Denver, Salt Lake City, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Costa Mesa, California.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Wow. So yeah. Costa Mesa is getting it, and Miami doesn't get one showing.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

They said, fuck your phantom.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

The Phantom is just not about the hot winters, you know?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Yeah, I guess not. It's kind of shitty. But listen, I really want to see this live. And honestly, even going into watching this specific one, what's incredible to me is seeing all these different variations of Phantom of the Opera. And then experiencing this movie and feeling like you're walking back into the foundation of it all. It is shocking in some moments to see just how much continues to endure from the original novel to this film and what that carries on through every other adaptation of this story.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

For sure. I think for a silent film with literally no spoken dialogue, right? I think this one still finds a way to evoke really strong feelings, right? You're getting like it's able to really captivate the audience. I think from the moment the phantom is lurking around the opera house, you get these shadows moving around, right? You feel this creeping tension in this movie without it having to really give you a whole lot.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And what's incredible to me is thinking about even just the presence that this phantom has, this is an iconic character. Oh, yeah. This isn't an iconic character. Yeah. And it absolutely kills me that this wasn't the first iteration I saw of this story. Because there's something about even this performance, it feels hypnotic in a way. There's something super captivating about it. And it's surprising that it never really drags the way that I would expect from a silent film.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

For sure. Yeah. There's a lot of moments that you would think when watching a silent film that you would just be kind of bored or whatever. And listen, if you're out there we, you know, watching the version that literally has no audio, you're not getting any orchestra or anything, that could be a thing, right? Maybe you're watching that no audio at all. You really have to be, like you said earlier, locked in to really enjoy that one. So it's really great to watch it with sound. But yeah, there's just something about it where there's this, there's this like feeling that someone or something is always watching you in this movie. And that's like the portrayal they give you with those shadows, with the people's reactions talking about the phantom throughout the movie. It's just really, really great. But it's not even just that, right? Like there's also the feelings that it evokes of like this longing for love, the desperation, the tragedy of this story, what it's able to depict and really get out of you is actually truly incredible for a film.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

It really is. And there's actually two other things that stuck out to me when I was watching this movie. And I don't know if it's just because my mind decided it had time to explore. But okay, if you don't know, there was an announcement recently that a lot of electronic arts, the company, has been bought out by a private fund. Have you heard about this?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

No.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Okay. So there is some financial investment from Saudi Arabia. And so there's some controversy surrounding this. People are arms are up in arms about this. And when I was watching this movie and thinking about obviously, if you've seen any Phantom of the Opera, it kind of begins with the sell, the sale of the opera house. Sure. And then I was just thinking, man, could you imagine if there was a phantom for every big fucking corporate deal that someone's upset about? Like, imagine a phantom of the electronic arts.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

I mean, listen, everyone needs a good phantom, you know?

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Yeah, it is incredible to me to think about, you know, people protest. Where's the phantom of the protest? Because this guy was really just protesting and just getting his way.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah, he is really out here doing all of the work trying to make sure the vision comes to life here. We protect what you know what we need.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yeah, this guy was a true activist, honestly. And the other thing that stuck out to me was holy shit, this movie could be studied by HR and unpacked as why workplace romances and fraternization is just problematic, right? The Phantom was in a position of authority, so to speak. And he was out here just wheeling and dealing, taking opportunity from others to give it to somebody who, you know, who was talented, but is anyone else gonna see her talent, or are they just gonna see the Phantom got his way?

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Listen, fair enough. It's always interesting when you watch these films from like way long ago. We're talking a hundred years ago, so obviously society a little bit different, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:02

1000%.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

We're talking about a story that's literally meant to be like really feeling for the phantom, right? You're truly supposed to feel the longing for that love, the desperation, the tragic, like love story of it all of him. Really just finding wanting to find love in this one. But when you watch it nowadays, you can't help but feel this kind of sense of like, well, you're kind of just kind of just taking what you want.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Yeah, you're kind of being a creep, my guy. Yeah, maybe you should have asked nicely, maybe asked her on a date, maybe you know, got to know her a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Ease it in there, you know what I mean? Just start with some casual conversation.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Yeah. And listen, obviously, this story, this original novel's from 1910. So nobody is judging it by today's standards and thinking, like, oh wow, this this phantom is really problematic. I'm just saying it's hilarious to look at in retrospect, right? Oh, it is. Like, this is 100% the shit HR warns you about.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah, this is all the HR complaints that we get now, you know, like this person won't leave me alone. They're just writing me notes. They're constantly so creepy. Yeah, crazy. That's actually really hilarious to think about, actually.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yeah, yeah. I want to frame up this movie as an HR complaint from Christine and see how that feels, right? But one of the other things that really caught me off guard, and I mentioned this early, is just how much of the story we still recognize in every phantom version that follows, right? So even you think about unmaskings, you think about chandeliers, the lair, all of it still hits, and it's incredible to me that it still manages to hit in a silent film after you've seen everything that's come after it.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Yeah. I think you hit it spot on. I think that is probably one of the most surprising aspects, especially if you haven't seen Phantom of the Opera before in any capacity, but especially this one, right? Like the fact that the film is able to bring forth so many different emotions and feelings while still being a silent film, I think is really incredible, right? Like it's it, and to be able to hit all of these crazy things, like the reveal, right? You think the first one wouldn't hit as hard, but surprisingly, the reveal, and once you watch this movie, if you haven't already, you'll know, but there's a reveal that happens in this movie that still hits almost the same every single time you watch it, and we'll have to break that down more in the second half to really dive into why we think that hits every time, the same time, all the time. But it's one of the best in history, in the history of cinema, period, right? But what I will say, which I think is actually really cool, and I don't know if you know, but the organ that Eric uses to play, you know, the organ he plays in the cellar in his lair in the basement, right? It's actually an organ that was originally used for cinema, but is now later used for actually scoring movies, and was the organ that was used to score the bride of Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 13:03

So this is a famous organ we have here.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

Holy shit, is this the screen debut of this organ?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I don't know if it's the screen debut. It might be, but it had been used in cinema before. Maybe I don't know if this is the first one, so don't hold me to that one, but it definitely transitioned from being on screen to being behind the scenes, but adding a lot of character to some great films.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

That is absolutely wild. So we have this organ, we have the log from Final Destination 2 that can that continues to work, and then we have the rats from Terrifier 3 getting another job in Nosphora 2. Honestly, there's just longevity in Hollywood, and that's what we need to see.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Oh man, the fact that this organ and the logs from Final Destination are in the same conversation somehow is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

The pipeline is a pipeline, and that's what matters. Now, the other aspect of I think why this movie endures so much, right, is it's Lon Cheney. And I have not seen another Lon Cheney film. I'm more familiar with Lon, I'm more familiar with Lon Cheney Jr. Right than I am Lon Cheney. But holy shit, the talent in this man, the quality of the effects and the makeup. Listen, this phantom is a goofy looking guy, for sure. Does he look the best out of all the phantoms we see? No, but also it's kind of my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

I mean, it kinda is because I don't know. I do think he looks the best. I mean, I think it's just such a cool look, you know what I mean? It's so, it's just so awkward looking. It's so, I don't even know. You want to say grotesque, but it's not even that it's grotesque, it's just so off-putting, right? The work that, and we'll dive into that too, but the work that Lon Cheney did to bring that character to life, just there's something about that look. Every time I see a picture of the Phantom unmasked from this movie, I'm like, yeah, that slaps.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Yeah, and I should be clear that I mean, objectively, he's not handsome.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Oh, yeah. No.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

The effects are there. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, like the quality, like he looks the best in terms of like quality of monstrosity. Yes, but obviously, this is not Gerard Butler with only half of his face affected. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah, we're not yeah, that's true. I see. I see what you're saying now for sure. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Yeah, this guy's not on a GQ magazine cover.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

No, never. Definitely not.

SPEAKER_03 15:28

But I will say that despite that look, one of the other things that stands out to me is that everyone in this movie feels like they fall flat in comparison to the Phantom. And it's not a huge disappointment. It's an incre and it's in fact it's an incredible problem to have. But it is something that I that stuck out to me. Like, yes, he's a sympathetic character, you're supposed to be feeling for him, etc. But it's almost like all I could focus on was him, and I was bored whenever he wasn't on screen.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Yeah. It's an interesting thing, I think, also with silent films, too, right? Because if you're not commanding the screen, you kind of just fall into complacency. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, we want to see the phantom because there's something so intriguing about the phantom from the moment the movie starts. We're getting just the shadows of the phantom, and then we get the masked phantom, and then we get an unmasked phantom, and we get all these different versions, but every single time we see the phantom, we're interested. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 16:32

100%. This man's shadow is more interesting to me than most other characters we get in horror film horror films.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

It's a problem, but you know, I'm also okay with it. At least in this one. But I get it, I get it. It's tough. And it's not to say that any of these other people are bad actors, I think it's just to the detriment of how interesting they made the phantom, or the story made the phantom, or how interesting Lon Cheney made the phantom. I'm not sure. It's probably a mixture of all of those things, but it's just one of those unique stories that was put to film. It just so happened that it was a silent film first, and so I think it makes it a little bit tough for some other actors to truly shine.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

For sure. And the other aspect of this, and thinking about his performance in particular, this movie is not scary by today's standards. We have to acknowledge that. Yeah, it's there.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Listen, folks, I don't expect you to sit in on any version of this story and be spooked. That's just not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

But you can appreciate that there must have been some level of shock value in 1925 that has to have been there. But I will say that it does translate to what feels to me like old school melodrama that became comedy throughout time. Like there are gestures from this guy where I'm just like, you're just being petty, you're just being dramatic, you got really big gestures here. I've seen that toddlers have similar tantrums, and it's funny to laugh at now, but obviously that's not the intent of the tone.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

No, for sure, but I see what you're saying. If this movie were to be made today, this would end up in a scary movie, some bit in a scary movie for sure.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

Yeah, I want to do the scary movie cut of all the universal horror films.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

It would be hilarious. We should do something like that, actually. But you know, you're right. For its time, probably really shocking. I think, you know, if you look up some different history about the film, this is one of those films, and we've heard it from various other other horror films across history, right? We've heard what the reactions were when the exorcist came into theaters and different things. And this was definitely a movie where people were shocked and they did walk out of theaters and they felt like this was such a disturbing moment for them, right? Or a moment in this film, right? But yeah, it's so interesting because much like the classics, especially if you're watching them today, and specifically this film, they're not trying to get you with what you're gonna get from a modern horror film. They're not trying to get you with gore and shock value and jump scares and all of that stuff. But what you're getting here is that creeping sense of that lurking dread, right? That's what it's really trying to do. It's a psychological approach because that's what they had to do. Work like more with less. And it's the same kind of feeling that we got with so many other classics. It's the silence and the expressionistic visuals that I think make that fear feel more intimate and psychological rather than just shocking. But the urban legend goes that, you know, look it up, do your own homework. But there is an urban legend out there that goes that the set design or one of the sets for this movie, and the I think it's the opera house set that still remains at Universal in one of the lots today, still fully built, uh, or part of it or most of it is built, but they the urban legend goes that it still remains because every time workers go to try to take it down, the ghost of Lon Cheney actually causes some kind of fatal accident.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

The fans helm strikes again.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

And it wouldn't that be fitting for him to become the phantom of his own set?

SPEAKER_03 20:16

The phantom of the back lot. I fucking love that.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Listen, believe what you want, but I choose to believe in this urban legend.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Hell yeah. I don't need the proof, I have the intent. Exactly. I love that. And you know, Sean, I I do think there's a special layer of beauty here with what you're talking about, with how much this movie intentionally crafts a level of scare or shock to its 1925 audience. But also that man has a floppy mouth.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Not the floppy mouth.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

It kind of undoes, it undercuts, it undermines what's going on. But despite that, I still think you still feel the weight of what the filmmakers are going for, right? It's walking that line between gothic tragedy and theatrical absurdity, which is honestly a tight rope. It is a tight rope to be able to execute, and that's where I feel like this movie really stood out in terms of what I feel like it kind of invents the visual language of gothic horror. It gives us a tortured villain, right? It gives us the underground layer, it gives us doomed romance, and it does it all before Universal really found its monster groove a few years later, with some of the more iconic classics like Dracula, Frankenstein, the Mummy, etc. This felt like experimental stuff in 1925, and I'm sure you can speak to that even bit way better than I can. But when you think about what this movie does with this visual language, it's just incredible. And then you remember you can't hear shit in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Oh my god, you just said I can't hear shit, and there's this meme that's going around, or it was going around, and it's literally just Nasferatu standing in the doorway with his shoulders. And it just says, I can't hear shit.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

Yeah, that feels like me. It's funny because I'm looking straight across from you to your name figure in the background.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

It's perfect. It's perfect. Oh my gosh. You're so right, though. The Phantom of the Opera, I think, is remarkably original for its time. I think not just because of what it adapted from the novel, but how it truly transformed that story into something hauntingly cinematic, right? They didn't just translate the book, they reinvented it visually. They brought it to life. And when you're the first to do that, right, there's some form of originality that you have to give credit to. And there's also just a ton of influence here that can't be ignored. And you touched on it, right? Like this really set the groundwork for so many movies to come. This story of a disfigured musical genius haunting an opera house became this blueprint for sympathetic monsters long before Frankenstein and Dracula appeared on screen and so and made them mainstream, right? So this is the evolution of that. You have to acknowledge that.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Yeah, I've talked about so many times how Jason is a very sympathetic slasher, especially in Friday the 13th part two. And honestly, the Phantom walked so he could run. Yeah. That's really what we're getting at here. And the other aspect of this movie that works so well is just the fact that they nailed the tone on the first try. And that's why this film continues to inform the rest of what's to come and the rest of what follows, all the way down to its ending. Because the ending leans fully into tragedy, right? The Phantom isn't just a villain, he's a product of cruelty, he's a product of desperation, he's a product of obsession. And when we get a chase sequence and we get him in this very specific costume work, I remember seeing this costume for the first time, and I had never seen it before. Again, my first take with the Phantom was I hate this, but it is the Disney Channel original movie, and then it was the 2004 film Phantom of the Opera with Gerard Butler. But being able to then go back and see this, oh my gosh, this is incredible. Like I absolutely loved it. And I was left with this feeling of, man, I want him to escape, even though I know he can't. We all know how this story ends, but Lon Chaney's take on this character really adds emotional weight that I didn't always feel in the other versions.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Yeah, there's a lot going on with the ending, and you go through this roller coaster of emotions, highs and lows, and everything in between. And the ending to this movie feels both tragic and strangely poetic. I think it's a fitting ending for a story that really dances between the horror and the heartbreak of it all. And it's the perfect silent era ending. It's wordless, it's powerful, and it's symbolic. And I think it closes with that same duality that the film began with beauty versus monstrosity, you know what I mean? Or love versus obsession, right? And I think on one end it's a happy ending, on the other, it's tragic and heartbreaking. It really just depends on which side of the fence you're looking from, you know what I mean? And so it kind of brings you on this journey to where, you know, depending on who you sympathize with, you might feel a certain way towards the end. But no matter what, there's some tragedy here.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Yeah, this is one of those where it's like, does anyone really win?

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Are we all the better for this?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Are we richer for the experience?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Where's where's the message behind all of this? That's what you have to look for. What's the moral message here?

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there, and I can't wait to continue discussing this as we get into the spoiler zone, but for now, let's make our way towards our ratings. Before we do so, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Well, when we think of silent films or even just movies from this era, the 1920s, right? We don't think of gore because there really is none, right? You there's not a whole lot of gore that's happening here. For its time, though, it was shockingly intense, not from the gore, but as I said before, from the psychological horror and the grotesque imagery that it was depicting or portraying. So this one might be getting a non-existent gore score in terms of blood and guts, but you're not really gonna miss it in it either.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Okay, so a no gore score is not the same as a boar score.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

That's true. It's a no gore score, but it's not a snore boar score.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Wow, you're really innovative. Okay, what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_02 26:39

You know, these early days of filmmaking were very concerned with cruelty to animals, so you're not really gonna get any animals being harmed in this film, so this one is safe.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

We talk about the animals, I just think about the rats and Nosferatu, and now I'm thinking about Robert Eggers making Phantom of the Opera.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Well, maybe that's gonna change.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The Phantom of the Opera, 1925. Was it hack or slash?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Well, there's something hauntingly beautiful about the 1925 Phantom of the Opera. It's not just a horror film, it's a cinematic opera of tragedy, obsession, and spectacle that really defined what gothic horror could be, right? Lon Cheney's performance, as we've been talking about as the Phantom, is nothing short of legendary. His self-applied makeup, the skeletal, hollowed-eyed face was groundbreaking, the transforming him into the living nightmare without spilling a drop of blood. I mean, it can't go unnoticed, right? Or ignored. And yet, beneath the horror, there's this underlying humanity that you don't just fear the phantom, you feel for him. And the set design in this movie is stunning, even by today's standards. The set design is absolutely incredible. Universal's full-scale recreation of the Paris Opera House just feels alive in this movie. And it's vast, it's ornate, it's filled with shadows that swallow you whole from the candlelit catacombs to the chandelier crash and everything that we know, right? Its visual storytelling is on an operatic scale in and of itself. And what makes this movie timeless is how much it influenced everything that came after it, from what we said, Frankenstein to Dracula and every tragic monster sense. It really taught audiences that horror can be beautiful and beauty can be horrifying. And a century later, the Phantom still hits all the right notes. This one is a slash worthy of a standing ovation, curtain down, chills up.

SPEAKER_03 28:49

How could you really follow that up? Listen, when it comes to Phantom of the Opera, what stands out most is how well this film still holds together a century later. And that's exactly to your point, Sean. We have seen so many reinterpretations of the story, right? We got musical adaptations, we got dramatic remakes, we had modern reimaginings that lean more on romance than horror. We even have a cheesy fucking slasher about this movie. But none of them exist without this version, because this is the blueprint that informs the rest. And there's a lot to appreciate in how confident this one is, right? It doesn't have sound, it doesn't have dialogue, but it has mood, it has spectacle, and it has atmosphere for days. This movie, in every shadow, every flicker of light, every tiny gesture just carries immense weight, right? This is a film that trusts you to meet it halfway. Yes, there's no sound, but go in with an open mind because to imagine the sound of the organ, to feel the tension of the unmasking, right? To fill in the silence with your own interpretation of that moment, that's rare. And I'm not gonna pretend this movie doesn't have moments that make me laugh, for sure. If you are someone who does not appreciate older movies, you're gonna giggle. You're gonna giggle at the melodrama, you're gonna giggle at the exaggerated title cards, you're gonna really laugh at that like flappy mouthpiece. It's flappy bird all over again. But those things make it even more endearing and make it more fun. And you can feel the passion of people inventing a genre as they went, and that is really what's significant. And this doesn't look like it's a movie that should have been made in 1925. I could have seen this years later with sound and the talkies, right? There's something that's pretty fucking punk rock about that. You can feel how innovative this movie is, despite its age. So yeah, for sure it's not scary by today's standards, it's not fast-paced or slick, but it doesn't need to be because it's good for different reasons. Because it's still here, it's still echoing with ripples through pop culture, it's still inspiring what horror looks and feels like. And that kind of longevity does not happen by accident, it happens by design. So for me, Phantom of the Opera isn't just this historical artifact, right? It's a piece of horror DNA that's still doing its job a hundred years later, which means it has to be a slash. And with that, the Phantom of the Opera from 1925 has a universal slash. Now you can find this movie a lot of places. When it's a hundred years old, coincidentally, you can find it for free on Tubi, so knock yourself out. But either way, join us in the second half so we can continue unpacking all these details. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

This week's episode is brought to you by HR, Haunted Relations, the only workplace training course that helps you navigate the murky depths of office romance without descending into the catacombs of chaos. Are you struggling to balance your passion projects and your passionate phantom admirers? Does your secret workplace crush keep leaving you threatening notes in cursive and occasionally dropping chandeliers when you reject their feedback? You might be entitled to counseling. At Haunted Relations, we'll help you recognize the red flags and the red masks. From when to file a complaint about unsolicited arias to boundaries, just because they wrote you an opera doesn't mean you owe them your heart. Our program ensures your office stays drama-free and organ music optional. Our modules include Love in the Layer, Understanding Emotional Manipulation Through Music, HR Escalations, How to Report a Phantom Without Sounding Crazy, Romance vs. Stockholm, Know the Difference. So before your next company gala ends in a flaming opera house and a missing coworker, enroll in HR Haunted Relations. Because every workplace deserves harmony, not haunting. Haunted Relations, turning toxic workplace dynamics into a thing of beauty, one mask at a time. Well, listen, for a silent film from 1925, this one does kind of have a high number of kills. I mean, there's a we only get a few that you know we're really gonna talk about, but there is the chandelier accident that caused, you know, roughly 23 people dying.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Iconic, incredible. And listen, I'm just saying for the 1925, this looked incredible. Yeah, it really did.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

But also, nobody's missing these people.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

That's true. That's true. It it really felt like filler, you know what I mean? Just a whole lot of filler to pad the body count, as we would say in in today's horror. But listen, there's a few other ones we can talk about. And Chris, I do, I gotta know which one of these kills had you singing from the orchestra of the opera house.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Well, fortunately for everybody on this show, not really anybody, because I can't sing at all. Thankfully, I'm not gonna do you the disservice. But what I do want to lean in on is I'm gonna I'm gonna leave the phantom alone. I want to go for the person, Joseph, who was hanged by the phantom. Because when we see that body rocking, just like the shadow of that hanged figure, that's the shit that I was like, oof, okay, maybe listen to the phantom at this point.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Yeah. Maybe, maybe it's a hint. I don't know. I don't know. But it is a really great kill because even just being able just to see the shadow of Joseph hanging was enough to feel the intensity in that moment. You didn't actually have to see the thing, right? You just had to see that shadow, and it still hits you in such a great way. So it is a really impactful kill. I will say, you know, obviously, you know, we can talk about the phantom later. I think I don't know about you, but it is definitely in my top for scenes as well. But Philip getting drowned in the underground lake is also pretty brutal, but also I love the kill just for how clever the Phantom is and how he just went underwater to cake this guy out.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

This man really pulled out something to help him breathe. I thought I was watching Qui-Gon Jin.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah, he's literally going like Navy SEAL under the water to take these guys out, like he has planned this before.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Where is he coming up with this shit? Is what I want to know.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

He's got a whole bunch of weapons and gadgets, and he's ready.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

How many times? Go go phantom breathing device. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Absolutely incredible. So you gotta you gotta respect those kills for sure. But listen, I would say there's a lot to be talking about when it comes to like the production of this film. And with a silent film, obviously there's just so much to talk about with the visuals, including the set design, the costume design, and even just the makeup, right? With Lon Cheney's self-applied makeup that changed the game. And I think, listen, it was cool to find out that you know that Oregon was used to play in the score for The Bride of Frankenstein. That is really cool. But this film's European three-tiered box seat horseshoe theater and stage, whatever, like prosenaum or however you say that still exists at Universal Studios as a standing set. And it was also used in Alfred Hitchcock's Torn Curtain in 1966, among other films. But man, it's just like really cool how Universal can take a lot of these sets and really use them in a lot of different capacities.

SPEAKER_03 37:16

What's wild to me is the idea that you could build a set not even thinking that it's gonna still be standing a hundred years later. Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Like who how many films need an opera house? And yet they still allow it to stand.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Yeah. The sound stage, what I believe they say is stage 28 on the Universal lot, is the Phantom stage, has been used in countless other films and television series. It's included in Phantom of the Opera from 1943, Dracula 1931, The Raven from 1935, The Sixth Sense from 1972, right? And the Torn Curtain, which we already talked about. But that sound stage was demolished in 2014, although several parts of the opera house of that set were still saved.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Okay. I mean, listen, if you make it all the way to 2014, just let it be.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Yeah. You might as well. What are you doing? You might as well. So I guess I guess the ghost of Lon Cheney let some of that go, but yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 38:16

Maybe he just you know wasn't particularly fond of those sections. Maybe that's those sections that were used for other films. But one of the other things that really stands out to me is just how incredible this movie was just how incredibly this movie used its shadows. Honestly, from the opening moments of the movie where we see this dark, cloaked figure and he's just projecting a shadow against the wall, he feels larger than life. Every time we see a shadow in here, it feels larger than life. And how incredible is it that in a silent film where so much of this is done on sound stages, etc., everything you do is intentional. Everything we do now is with this idea of like looking cinematic and being very even with our lighting. And I mean, obviously, there's so many different ways to shape this in a modern film, but you just don't see that. Yeah, you don't see that anymore. The closer we've gotten to that is Nosferatu in last year.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Which I was gonna say, like the the decision that Robert Eggers had to actually still use the shadow that worked in Nosferatu and even the shadows in the original, and still try to bring that forth in the remake, or his version was very brilliant because it proves that shadows still work.

SPEAKER_03 39:32

It does. It just you have to do it with a level of intention, right? Like I remember when I was in training in the Navy, and that was in like the portion where we're learning about lighting and doing this for like electronic news gathering, etc. They warn you about Scooby-Doo shadows, and they say you cannot light something in such a way that it projects and casts a large shadow behind it, it's gonna look like a fucking episode of Scooby-Doo. But yeah, you just don't see that, right? Like that's just that's just not the style that is permitted. A in news and just what you see regularly on even social media now, but with a in the right application, it can do wonders. And this movie is such a shining example of that.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Absolutely. It's just really, I mean, visually, this movie is absolutely stunning. Like you just you have to really appreciate everything that it was able to do from the set design to the use of the shadows to everything in between. So uh just incredible, absolutely incredible. But can we talk about can we talk about the reveal?

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Sean, of course we can, because this was my favorite fucking scene. This is iconic, it's burned into horror history, and even though you know it's coming and you realize you're about to see what he looks like, also his masks weren't doing a whole lot to conceal it, let's be honest. It still has power, right? This thing feels raw, it feels emotional, it also feels vulnerable. It ends up not just being about shock, which is what you would expect. What I love about this version in particular, more so than I felt in past versions or really more recent versions, this feels like a moment where you see the phantoms soul crack open in front of you.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

And that is like devastating and really visceral. It's the kind of scene that defines what a monster reveal should be. It's not just about grossing you out, it's also about all of this hitting for him in this moment and seeing what his response is to that.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Yeah, it's everything, the build-up to it's the build-up to all of that. It's the, you know, it's Christine like going to grab, then stepping, like it's that whole game of like trying to go and grab the mask and then stopping and then going and then stopping, and there's a little bit of that, and then finally you get to that moment, and it's the reaction on both of their ends, right? It's everything. It's yes, very much visually the reveal of the monster, especially for the first time. And but it is everything that they did to make that scene come to life. But that is what we were talking about earlier in 1925. The audiences that there's interviews and things that reported that people like screamed, fainted, ran out of theaters in shock and awe of this in of this singular moment. Because when did you see anything like that in film prior to that? Not a whole ton, right? But when you're watching it now, you really have to appreciate, and I think the reason why it's still impactful and it still hits every single time is because of the performance and the delivery of that reveal.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

100%. And you know what this is actually making me think of? I thought about this when I was watching the movie. The Phantom would be the perfect contestant for the masked singer. He would imagine he's coaching Christine. He clearly, I mean, obviously, we see in musical adaptations of this movie, he's got a voice himself, and maybe in this one he's just gonna be doing the moves, etc. But imagine, like, imagine him being on the voice, and then the fucking coaches just turn for him, and then they're just horrified in saying that, right? Like, so yeah, the mask singer where you know maybe he gets revealed at the end and you see what he actually looks like, or you have his application on the voice. That's what I need to see.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yeah, absolutely incredible. It is definitely one of the probably one of the best scenes in the movie, but I do want to shout out since we have been kind of dancing around it since we talked about the ending, I do want to talk about the Phantom's end, right? Because I don't think it's just a death scene, and I think there's a reason why we probably both didn't want to talk about it in kills, but it's the curtain falling on a soul that never got to take a bow, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Damn, Sean, that's deep as fuck.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

It is yeah, we're getting deep here because it's truly, I think. One of my favorite scenes because of how much you can get out of that scene. And for a movie to end that way, I think is really, really impactful. I think there's just this lingering sense of sorrow that this tragic figure's only piece really comes in death. And the this mob descends on him and then like beats on him before throwing his body into the river to drown, or maybe he's dead already. I don't know. He's but either way, he's beaten and tossed, right? And there's no redemption, there's no final note of beauty, just brutal, pitiless justice, right? And so, like, this is like on one end, this town folk, they feel like they won, right? Christine is free, but at what cost? And instead of feeling okay that they had their happy ending, you're kind of left with like, fuck, like this guy, like really had a shitty end. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah. You know, what I thought of, and maybe it's because I maybe I thought of this because we had just watched Brian of Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

I was thinking of the Phantom just saying, I belong dead. Yeah. We belong dead.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Yeah. But yet, even in death, he feels strangely victorious because he's smiling as if he's had the left, last laugh. You know what I mean? Like he still has that. It's chilling, it's ambiguous. He's almost is he mocking them or himself? I don't know. It leaves you feeling haunted and hollow. And I think that when you really kind of soak it all in, the Phantom's end isn't about good triumphing over evil. It's about the death of a man who could never belong anywhere but in the shadows. And Christine's freedom feels bittersweet because it comes at the cost of killing what made the story so alive, the Phantom's twisted passion. And so that's why I love, absolutely love this end and this scene because it really just ties a nice bow on the entire story.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

100%. And you know, I realized that my mind was playing tricks on me because when I thought about his end in this story, like, all right, well, he's a ghost though. He's a phantom, whatever. Obviously, he's not, he's like very corporeal, but I was thinking about the math on the timing. And okay, we know that his body was in the torture chambers during the second French Revolution. That was in 1830. So what year does this take place? So the movie's in 1925, but the story's in 1910.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

So that's about what 40 years?

SPEAKER_02 46:35

40 years.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Let's presume he was what 1820 when that happened? So he's in his 60s?

SPEAKER_02 46:41

60, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Yeah, he's a sugar daddy.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

He's a sugar daddy. Where like where are you going with this? Oh, he's a fucking sugar daddy. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_03 46:49

Yeah, yeah. I mean, because I was thinking, like, okay, the phantom of the opera, he's just elusive and not seen, or is he a ghost? Is this motherfucker like super dead? And like we think that this is achieving something, but it's also like black phone too, right? How much are we actually achieving here with the ending of this movie? And then I was like researching back on the dates, and like, oh well, you know, maybe he's in his 60s. Maybe he's uh very much not a phantom, maybe he is just a sugar daddy.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yeah, there is the mention, so interesting though, there is the mention of like existing in the torture chambers, but they never really satisfactorily explain in the script, or even I think in the novel, like exactly how he became so disfigured, right? Like it's kind of like eluded to that maybe that could be the cause, or maybe it's just he's just born a freak of nature and he was just existing down there, right? Like, I think it's just an interesting thing. Like, we don't even know the origin of this dude. Have you ever read the novel? I have not.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

I feel like we need to do it for a book club at some point.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

I feel like we should.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

I need to know what the phantom's deal is.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah, I I want to know more. I want to know more.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yeah, give me the lore.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Yeah, there's gotta be so much lore. You would hope. You would hope.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

But listen, Lon Cheney, though, I know we've talked about like the Phantom as a character, and we've talked about Lon Cheney really and his performance really making his imprint on this figure that has influenced so much afterwards. But let's just talk about Lon Cheney for a moment and how this was brought to life because from even from him doing the self-applied makeup, like he did like he put the egg membrane on his eyeballs to give him that cloudy look when they had to play, like when he had to play a blind character. Like he he would do all kinds of crazy stuff. And he did not employ this technique in his makeup for the phantom, but Lon Cheney did a lot of work with his performance through his hands. The son of uh he was the son of deaf mutes. If so, if you don't know that, like I think that maybe it has added to like how he learned to be very expressive with his hands and how he was able to maybe be really impactful in silent films.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

How inclusive, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:04

It's very cool. And so, as this is like a silent performance, I think the hands are required to convey quite a lot, but man, he he's just very innovative from even the makeup that he does to like his gestures and the way he really portrays himself. And it's really actually kind of funny that you know he is known for creating the phantom and really um and and really setting the groundwork for monster imagery and like this crazy, like sympathetic monsters. And then you also have Lon Cheney Jr. who is a big part in like the wolf man and like things like that, where he really changed the game too in a lot of ways. So the bloodline, you know, the Cheney bloodline.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

Yeah, it's a it's a thick bloodline, and yet again, here we are Final Destination bloodlines, Hellraiser bloodlines. What else we got? Yeah, yeah, the year of the bloodline.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

We love it, we love it. Uh, but listen, according to uh in to even talk about your favorite scene again, like in in terms of characters, Christine, right? And thinking of like the some of the reactions that really caused that scene to come to life, according according to the cameraman or one of the cameramen, Charles Van Enger, right? On this film, uh Christine or Mary who plays Christine's reaction to the unmasked phantom was actually 100% real.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

Damn, Mary, you could have been a little more chill about that. How fucked up is that? Imagine you just walk into a space and someone's like right.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

But it's interesting, and I wonder how it's interesting, and I wonder how much uh of the even the cast had seen his makeup because I know that they did a lot of things to really hide his the look. They did a lot of things to really hide the look of the phantom uh unmasked before the movie came out, right? And so they had even shots of him where like his face was kind of covered or you couldn't really see much, and so and so yeah, it's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Well, that also reminds me of obviously we just as we record this got the first episode of Welcome to Dairy. Yes. And we know that in the it movies that just came out in 2017, 2019, they did a hell of a job keeping Bill Skarsgard away from those kids on set. And they did the same thing in the Welcome to Dairy series. And I actually just watched a video where the cast reacts to the first episode and like seeing everything play out. And the one of the one of the young girls who plays one of the main characters in that first episode was talking about how wild it was that they went so long without ever seeing him. But the first time they see him is like when they're actually acting in the scene. So what you see is the real reaction. Now, listen, scary fucking clown, I get it, but also he's a poor guy, you know, he's a little silver silly goofy monster guy. He's just trying to love you.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

That's it. He's just trying to love you. You gotta let him love you.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Yeah, you don't have to, like, you know, you you love whoever you want to love, but like also Christine, come on. So what's going on here? I do think that she's solid in this movie, but I also feel like I've grown so attached to later versions of Christine that I couldn't really invest emotionally in this one. For me, this movie is all about the phantom.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

A hundred percent. We talked about, right? He's equal parts pitiful, he's and terrifying. And Cheney makes him feel real in a way that most silent film characters just never really do for me. You don't get all that, you you get all that without even a single word of dialogue, which is significant. But the other thing that I thought of, Sean, and you bring up Long Cheney Jr., I was just thinking about how this man is just using his authority to do whatever the fuck he wants, right? Whoever he designates as his person, they're gonna be incredibly successful. And I thought, man, the Phantom would have really had a crazy ass Nepo baby. And then we get Long Cheney Jr. Who's not a Nepo baby, I mean tell him the band in his own right, but also not no.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

We're not saying yes, but we're not saying no at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

I'm just saying, imagine the Phantom having a baby. Yeah, that thing will be unchecked. Yeah, there's no parenting this, no disciplining this child. He will do whatever the fuck he wants.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

That's wild. That's a wild concept for sure. But I will say, listen, the ending of this movie is by far one of my favorite scenes in the movie, but I think it's also interesting to say that because I'm just trying to think of like what would be one of the worst parts of this movie, and I think we've talked about like the fact that the Phantom outshines all the characters in this movie, and so maybe that's something you can lean with. But knowing that there was an original concept for the ending that actually did not take place, and I'm wondering how they would have got there and how it would have impacted the ending. And so I don't know that it's the worst part, and it might be cheating, but I do want to say that I really wish we had an alternate cut or some kind of like alternate version out there that we could actually see this take place because the original ending had the phantom dying from a broken heart found dead at his organ.

SPEAKER_03 54:33

Okay, it's giving padme.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

It is giving a little bit of padme, but I think if we still had most of the events, it just I think the only problem with it is that maybe it wouldn't be as impactful because would you still have would you still have the impact of the mob chasing him down and killing him because he's not dying that way, so you wouldn't have that impact, but would you still would it still hit the same?

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Yeah, I don't know. That's an interesting question to pose. I feel like if he died of a broken heart, you kind of would have gone out like a little punk. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Maybe that's why they switched it.

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Not that I want him to die being beaten by a mob, that's terrible, but also, I mean, you you were a pretty assertive guy. I I know I keep defending and then also reprimanding the phantom. I know, I just can't pick a side apparently. But I would say the thing that continues to be the worst part of these movies for me is Christine's relationship with Rawl. I'm not a fan. It just is what it is. I never like him as a character. It's fine, it is what it is. But I just find it to be such a a nuisance the entire movie. I never really I never care for him.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Yeah, well, I mean the problem here is that the the I mean the main problem here is that Christine doesn't actually want him either. Yeah, she genuinely chooses the opera over him, but then realizes when she's stuck with the phantom and that reveal, and she doesn't want that captivity and all of that, and doesn't want to be with some grotesque phantom underground, five layers underground, you know, for eternity or whatever, then she's like, Well, the grass is greener, so let me uh let me choose this side.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

Yeah, it's her indecision. Here it is, that's what it really nails down. I don't I don't care for him at all, but maybe the worst part is her own indecision. Uh if listen, if the the Phantom gives you everything you want and you're not physically attracted to him, that's something. That's fair, okay, whatever. But also, is that really what you want?

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

It's giving no. It's giving your your words don't act match your actions, Christine. Exactly. Yeah, it's you need to make up your mind. And the love triangle of it all is never something that I I really care about.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

The tension between Christine and the Phantom, okay. I think in some later adaptations, I don't even feel as much of the romance, so much as it does feel like a more established, like he is her mentor kind of dynamic. But in this one in particular, I was just like, alright, I can do without all of that. Just give me back to the phantom.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

100%.

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Absolutely. Regardless of that, I happily re-watch it. I still watch it. I'm gonna keep watching it when I'm in the mood for watching an old classic movie. Now, this is the one that you have to pay attention to, you can't just put it on in the background. Like you will miss some things. But it's I think the kind of movie that grows on you every single time you revisit it because you notice more details in the lighting, more details in the set design and even the performances. Like for me, a standout moment was how exceptional and sharp his penmanship is. Like and then had to have a letter edged in black. Everything about this movie visually just really shines. So that's where I think this movie just continues to carve out its rewatchability, especially because it's horror that still feels alive and is foundational.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Yeah, for sure. And I also think just watching this one again for the first time in years has only just reminded me of why I love this one so much when you think of all the things that you can get out of it visually, the story, the groundbreaking performance from Lon Cheney. There's just so much to admire in this one, and so I just really look forward to watching this one again relatively soon. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I I keep shying away from this one and I just gotta stop.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

Yeah, Sean, I need you to know that I watched this, then I watched the next version from the 40s, then I watched the Robert Englin one, and then I watched the 2004 version. All of them. It's a great pipeline, it is fan fucking tastic. All I need is like, I don't know, did Wishbone ever do a Phantom of the Opera? I feel like he must have at some point. I feel like I've seen the image of him doing that. You need to just have a Phantom Day.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

I I mean, yeah, why not? Why not?

SPEAKER_03 58:57

And then speaking of phantoms, then watch the Phantom in the town that dreaded sundown, and you get a whole situation.

SPEAKER_02 59:02

There you have.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

Yeah, but hey, for now, there you have it, folks. The Phantom of the Opera from 1925 has earned a universal slash. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

If you want to find out what's lurking behind the curtains of this episode, consider supporting the show by visiting patreon.com/slash hacker slash. This is where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and live shows.