419: Cloverfield (2008)

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Are humans fruit loops. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. If this is the last thing you see, that means I died. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

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A total joke, a waste of time.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Or slash. Totally killer, pun intended. We believe horror words for everyone, and as such, we're reading these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of food we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the super flex-based guy Matt.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

It's a terrible thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

And the paranormal paramour, Binks. Whoa, I'm like feeling something. Are you aware of Garfield? The people have spoken in our patrons have decided which movie we're covering this week.

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And if you're a patron or Apple Podcast subscriber, you'll also get to hear our B-side at the end of this episode, where we discuss how the modern doom scrolling world would handle a massive monster invasion.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Back in 2008, found footage was already carving out its own corner of horror, but no one had taken a shot at scaling it up. At least not until these filmmakers dropped a no-title teaser before Transformers and sent the Statue of Liberty's head skidding across Manhattan. It was the beginning of a viral mystery, a creature feature told entirely through the lens of one chaotic night, and a movie that felt like a dare from the genre. What if you experienced a citywide disaster from the sidewalk instead of the skyline? This week our patrons have voted for us to review Cloverfield.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

And this movie was nominated by Marnie, who said very simply, I think this is an underrated found footage film.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Well, we're gonna find out just how underrated it is. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Me for sure. Not in theaters, but like pretty long time ago, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Yeah, same. I didn't get to see this in theaters, but I have watched it a few times. Most recently before this watch, it was like about three years ago. I feel like I throw it on every now and then.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Ooh, okay. This is something that I actually haven't seen since 2008, but I need to paint a picture of you. Because this movie has such a weirdly and oddly specific special place in my heart. Do you ever look back in your childhood and then think, okay, I can feel myself becoming an adult, and I feel like this is gonna be one of the last formative memories I have. Definitely. Every day. Every day. Good old okay, great. It's like the good old days that you don't know they're gone until you're after them. I don't know, whatever that office quote is. So there are three movies that I can specifically remember looking back on as part of the last days of my youth. And that was specifically because I had turned 18 going into 2008, so on New Year's Eve 2008, and life was happening so fast. Like I came out of the closet, I was deciding on where what I wanted to do with the rest of my life in terms of like college and what I wanted to pursue. And I just had so many different things happening. Between January and October, there are the last three movies that I saw in theaters, and that was Iron Man, The Strangers, and Cloverfield. And this just has this like really specific niche in terms of like a peak potential, peak hope. That was such an exciting time in my life because there are some things that like weren't super fun, but I really felt like I was in the middle of my life changing. And this is like the last semblance of time where like I was still who I was before everything I ever went through. So when I popped this one back on, I was like, damn, I really haven't seen this since I was 18 years old. And that's super special because this movie was actually the deciding factor for me wanting to go to film school instead of pursuing something else in my life. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

But I guess I can see it. I feel like maybe you've said that before that specifically before, or at the very least, the idea that a found footage film is what would catapult you to want to do film because like you could do it better type type energy.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

To be clear, like I said I ever felt like I could do it better than this movie. I want to be like very, very clear on that. I fell in love with the idea of one day making horror movies specifically with Halloween. So I grew up loving horror movies, and I had dabbled with you know video production, etc., when I was younger, and I was like, damn, what if I was so bold as to pursue that? And I felt like it was like an impossibility. And I remember even having conversations with my mom, and she was like, You should get a real job. You know, the things that my like parents want you to do. But I remember after this movie came out, that was the the day after I saw this in theaters. I was like, man, that's just so damn cool. And I want to do that with my life. I want to go to film school, that's what I want to do. And this movie kind of set me on the path that like brought me here today. So it was just absolutely wild to unlock what a time capsule that was. Were you fan of reference? We're gonna talk about what happens in this movie, but this came out in January 2008, so I didn't even know yet what a situationship was.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Wow. Didn't many of us? I mean, I didn't, that's for sure. And what was to come crazy.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

This was a wild time in life, I guess. I reacted quite differently, Chris. I think this is one of the earliest movies that let me know that I hated found footage movies. It was just right there in my face, making me feel things, and not emotionally, I mean with my vestibular system. So this was an early example, I think, for me of what was to come. But kind of going further, you know, I've seen 10 Cloverfield Lane, but I've not seen the Cloverfield Paradox yet, which is bizarre considering my love of all things space sci-fi. I don't know if I'm just like holding off to complete the trilogy or something. Like I once it's done, it's done, is kind of how I'm feeling about it. But I've also heard that you should watch this one first and then Cloverfield Paradox and then 10 Cloverfield Lane, so like kind of out of order from release dates. But yeah, I just, you know, I think going to this film was for me, it didn't feel so fond. I didn't have those emotions attached. I wish I did because it this seems like formative for you.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

I actually have not seen Cloverfield Paradox either, so we're you know, two P's in a pot on that one.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Although I think because I haven't either. I've only seen this in 10 Cloverfield Lane.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Wow, interesting. What are we holding out on? Is it because it was a Netflix release or something? Maybe. Is that what that is that what it was? I'm pretty sure that it went straight to Netflix, but I would need to fact-check myself. I think it came out maybe a little bit before it's not like a COVID thing. I don't really know why. But I do remember 10 Cloverfield Lane and how that one blew my little mind. But yeah, you know, with this movie, I mentioned that I've watched it several times, but I think it's because it's definitely like a time capsule situation, Chris. Like I agree with you because I remember so much of the marketing around this film. I remember, you know, people talking about it in high school, like getting so excited and pumped to see it. And it's such a quick watch, too. So it's versatile. You want to throw something on, this is an easy one to just throw on because before you know it, it's over. It's found footage, which is a genre that I really like. But the thing about this one, that with each rewatch, I'm like, god damn. I really was thinking of you, Mac. I'm like, I don't know how he's gonna do this, is you feel frickin' dizzy. And as someone with a vertigo issue, I'm surprised that I even make it through most of the times. But despite the quick watch and the fact that the dizziness and sensation of such will come and go pretty quickly, it reminded me of the marketing. And again, going back to that nostalgia where like theaters had to warn people about this vertigo that they were going to experience, full on to comparing it to a roller coaster ride. And although I don't know so much about narratively it feeling like a roller coaster ride, I think that the way that it's filmed, of course, and the found footage aspect definitely is a roller coaster situation. So it's definitely one of those where like I throw it on when I'm not feeling well, or maybe I'll just like in passing if it's on a free channel or something like that. But I'm always reminded, wow, this is like a visceral sensation when you watch it. Not so much like a emotional drama like other films that we review from my perspective.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

You know what's interesting is I actually found myself more connected to the emotions of this movie and the things that I just didn't really fully absorb and appreciate when I was younger. And I'm not here to say this movie's like crazy emotional, right? But think about this. We were seven years removed from 9-11 when we all saw the footage of what was happening. Well, we were at this point, like being since you and I were you must have been in elementary school. I was in middle school, Mac, and you're probably in high school at that point. To think about like what we see in our youth and disaster in New York City to then be portrayed in a film like this, in such an interesting play, with you think about even Godzilla from 1954 and how that was so deeply connected to the atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima. And then you have this movie kind of echoing the destruction that we saw in New York City. It was such a eerie thing to pick up on now as an adult and to think, damn, the trauma was real when we were young, and now we're doing completely not completely over my head, because obviously it's like there are certain scenes in this movie that really evoke that, but it's not something that I felt the gravity of until watching it now as an adult. But I want to go back to what you were both saying for just a second about like just how this movie was filmed. It's crazy, and I don't know why this was my idea to do this, but I decided to re-watch this for the first time since 2008 on an Apple Vision Pro. And so I watched it on a gigantic immersive screen, and oh my gosh, what a cool experience that was. Now, granted, actually in 2008, a couple months after I got after we watched this movie, I went to the hospital and was diagnosed with vertigo at the time. And but I've surprisingly never had an issue with like motion sickness since then. So found footage has always been a sweet spot for me, and I'm telling you, like watching it in that format was just a completely different experience and felt really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Does sound pretty epic, honestly. Like something like this is made for big screen. This is very cinematic, even though it's like gorilla style. It also does tell you, like, as you're watching it, this needs to be on a big screen with big sound, really bright projector or screen or whatever it is that you're using to display this. It just it screams that it deserves it.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

I mean, it's JJ Abrams. Of course, the man said, I want this on the biggest screen, clear. I mean, the camera that HUD is literally filming on needs to be the top of the line, Panasonic or Sony. I think maybe it's both top grade stuff. Okay. It it's a given. And I think that may be potentially a hot take. I think that actually is something that I find it to hinder a little bit because it almost seems a little too like clear. Does that make sense? I I don't know. I I love the grit of found footage films, and I know that that's not actually everyone's favorite, but I find that it makes it more realistic, unless it was like a very modern time. Like right now, if we were to do a found footage film that were to seem realistic, people would probably be filming on their iPhones, and the iPhones have such great grammar quality, right? But 2008, I don't know, my MySpace pictures would beg to differ. Those videos and those photos do not look as crisp as this Cloverfield movie.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

It was the Motorola Razor, it was the sidekick. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Oh, that's fair. But I actually still found this movie to be really easy to latch on to in terms of its believability with how it was shot. I had zero qualms with that at all. And actually, I thought that the framing of this and the way that this movie in particular executes its found footage because it's framed more as footage that is truly found versus a lot of other found footage movies, which are we found some footage and now we've made a thing to show you what we found. It's completely different in that regard. This feels like a one cohesive product from beginning to end. And that felt very, very different for the time. But let me tell you, this other area that completely shocked me was A, how well this movie aged for me, how much it still held up, how much I was able to get from it as an adult. But also B, how many familiar faces are in this movie? It is insane.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

It it reminds me of, I mean, you mentioned the office earlier. If you go back and watch the office like audition tapes, where you're seeing them show off the characters that ultimately we will remember remember forever, but they're not quite them yet. They haven't perfected it, but they're like almost there. And so you see all these like fresh young faces that you've seen from projects later on, and you're like, wow, look at them. They're like little babies. And they kind of sound like themselves, they kind of almost have the intonations, but they're not quite there yet. But there's just so many of them like stacked on top of the other. It's insane.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Absolutely. I think that's maybe what gets me to like rewatch this movie from time to time as well, though, because of that surprise. But yeah, I mean, this movie has its charm, but I'm really glad, Chris, that you've had such a like gap of time from watching this, because I think that makes all the difference. Because although I do love the nostalgia, especially, of course, Lizzie Kaplan. I mean, let's just say it because I love her so much. I think that because I've watched it so often, with each rewatch, again, it's not even so much the dizzy of it all, but it kind of starts to lose its charm in general. And I think the biggest takeaway that I've gotten from my most recent rewatches, it seems to be like a disappointment that I can't overlook anymore. In truth, is when it comes to found footage films, and this is a critique a lot of people have, it's why would you be recording something? And this is why. I know we're we're laughing already, but this is why typically found footage films, the main characters, right? Your leads, are documentarians, reporters, you know, doing their own like short film, etc. That already is a vehicle to give them a reason to be doing what they're doing. In this case, and we definitely have evidence of this, there are several other font footage films where it's you're recording a party or it's a good time. You've got the jokester that would be recording everyone, right? He's messing around. And that in this case, that's one of our characters, HUD, right? That's why he's recording it. And I'm fine, that's okay. But it gets to a point in some of the character decisions and and like the situations that they find themselves that it really doesn't seem very clear as to why they would be recording everything. Or I'll get into it a little bit in our spoiler zone, but like we're talking some very blatant instances where you would not be recording that, my dude. And you certainly wouldn't be recording it as clear as you typically would. Like, why are we shaky in some parts? And other times, it's like, damn, I've never seen something more like something more beautifully shot, or like the cinematography there is just so fantastic. It just doesn't make sense. So I struggle with that a little bit. And I know I'm being a little bit nitpicky now on like my 20th rewatch of this movie, but I just had to say it.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

It's a little bit of a disappointment this time around. I beg to differ though. I think if anything, there are two types of people in the world. When something has happened, they're gonna put their phone down and they're gonna be immersed in what's happening, or the people who are gonna pull their phone out. I think about going to an Ice Nine Kills concert. I'm like, god damn, I really wish I could just watch this concert from my vantage point instead of having to look through someone's phone because it's all it is is a sea of phones in front of me. So that's the one thing. But two, it's a suspension of disbelief. I'm opting into a fountain footage movie, so I'm there. And I think it's it's absolutely fair to say I wouldn't be in this situation filming this shit. I feel like I had to do that for what my life was at a certain point. A year even after this movie came out, I was in this place where if something happened, I had to have my camera on and had to be this unbiased neutral party in the room to just document everything. And that's such a fucked up place to put your mind in. But all that time has done since this movie came out is confirm that people really will just do that shit. Think about how many things are happening, how many horrific events that are happening, and people will just pull out their phone instead of rendering aid, they will step back and choose to put this buffer between them and the experience that's right in front of them. Or let's take it even seven years before this movie came out, when ash and dust was filling the streets of New York City on 9-11, people were still filming. And yeah, I found footage like there's some dramatic and dumb conversations, right? Not everything needs to be filmed. But I think at that point, it's just it really is just like the suspension of disbelief. So I found that this movie for me actually aged really well into that. And I'm thinking, yeah, they really were just telling us exactly how we're all gonna end up.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

For sure. No, and and I agree with you completely. I think to be a little bit more specific, it's the when it pairs with a like a comedic relief character who typically would maybe be rambunctious or or reckless and et cetera, et cetera, right? Of course, they are probably the ones that are messing around that would be recording and shock factor. They remind me a lot of these, you know, teen social media crazed influencers type stuff. Like they would be recording all the shock value things, most definitely. I think it's just the very specific instances of danger that at some point you would be dropping the camera a little bit more. It wouldn't be as clear. You probably wouldn't have shot that exact moment. I mean, it's just like the, I don't know. It's it's little, little tiny moments that I think in I've seen in other found footage films, they make up for it in a different way. The cameras fall in somewhere else, and that's how it's captured, right? They've lost track of where the camera is and suddenly it's just turned on. Again, that's where I can suspend my disbelief of why would the camera just suddenly turn on, whatever, fine. But it was giving a little bit too much like a YouTube video, like influencer AI generated YouTube video this time around for some reason. More so than I'm sure years ago, where I agree with you, Chris. We see how people are in like in the middle of a car accident recording what's happening on the street, and uh most definitely even with 9-11. So I don't know. It was a bit of a change this time around.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I think if Floverfield was going down right now, these motherfuckers would be on TikTok live. Let's just be real. Fair.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

100%. I like the mythic because normally I'm you. In this case, I'm with Chris, though, because I think he establishes early on why we would be recording, why we're gonna keep recording throughout the film. And I was like, fine, I'll accept that. What I won't accept, what was truly disappointing, was the dialogue. Because this time I was surprised to find that I actually figured out what was going on with the characters and who was who and who to care about and who cared about each other, because the previous one, it was just like, ah, this is a jumble, whatever. Let's just see who gets wrecked and who doesn't. And this time I was like, okay, I'm I'm following, I'm tracking, let's see where this goes. Why on earth would you say your friend's name between every sentence fragment? To me, that sounds like a like an eight-year-old. If you're like, hey Rob, Rob, what if hey Rob, Rob, don't go, hey Rob. And I was like, dude, then no one would say that, all right? Especially in 2008. I feel like everyone would be, dude, man would most likely be coming out. Very few times would you actually say your friend's name, maybe the word hey, maybe stop, maybe something else, but there was a good stretch of time where I think the word rob was said like 50,000 times or something. It was too much. But a lot of the other dialogue was equally as cringe because it just seemed fake, and like that took me out in those moments, but it's also how many years later. And so perhaps back then this was more indicative of the actual people who were adults at that time doing things adults would do at that time. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah, it's giving mum, mum, mum, mummy, mummy, mummy, rob, rob, hi. Actually, Rob just popped into the chat. Hi, Rob.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Oh, perfect.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

We said it so many times that we summoned him.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Yeah, it's Candyman.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

The power of Rob compels you. Now, the the other thing about this, Mac, and I think in some places the dialogue works. I think in other places it doesn't work. I'm there with you. On a very real level, on a very visceral level, this movie was able to move people in 2008. And I think of the found footage movies that we see, seeing a whole disaster play out the way that it did in this movie could definitely have some effect. But let me just tell you that the scariest thing about this movie is the fact that if someone wasn't afraid of commitment, they might have had a different outcome. We'll talk about that more in the spoiler zone. This is really why I mentioned earlier I wasn't I didn't even know what a situation ship was. Was when this movie came out. But looking at it now as an adult, I'm like, well, fuck, this is why you're gonna stand on business and just fight for what you deserve. Because if you got what you deserve, none of this shit would have been happening to you.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

This entire story needed to go through COVID to get where we are, basically, is what I'm hearing. We needed to be able to like have a little self-care, go after things that matter because nothing else does, whatever it is, like we needed to age it along with the rest of us. But it's not scary. It's definitely not scary. It's almost like a sci-fi thriller or sci-fi action thriller more than it is in the horror realm.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Almost definitely.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

I think that what is probably scariest, aside from what Chris mentioned for sure, is whether you're going to maybe like vomit or not after watching it too close to the screen. Set yourself up for success if you're gonna watch this movie at home, most definitely. And if you're brave, definitely do the Vision Pro thing. But I would have not made it out alive. I can promise you that.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Oh baby, because I think you need to come over and try it because holy shit, it was an incredible experience. I think that you really just, you know, it's gonna be incredible.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it. I'm down. I'm down to try. But the moment that I feel queasy, I'm throwing those things off. But I think aside from that, I think from aside from that though, I think it's more of like an action movie than anything. I agree with you, Mac. There's not much even tension here. And stop me if it's because I've maybe watched it too much, but in reality, I think that it's more of an action sci-fi for sure. I'm aligned with that. And I wish it had a little bit more like tension, horror, suspense. It leaned more in that direction. Because there's certainly some environments where it would for sure be scary as shit, but that's not the case here, folks.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

What I can appreciate though is even if this isn't the kind of movie that's gonna scare you, is it does have a significant impact on the scale of found footage. Yeah, we got a lot of stuff before this. Absolutely. But let's also remember that found footage really took off with the Blair Witch project. Now, before this, found footage felt super small, super intimate. Yeah, we got maybe some everything like Diary of the Dead. I can't recall which year that came out, but we had bigger scale things happening. But I'm sorry, Statue of Liberty Head rolling into the middle of the street is different, right? It's found footage has usually been tucked inside like one location, but this movie was like, let's take a blockbuster, but like put it through a handicam. And that I think was a great approach. That was a great approach to elevating this sub-genre. And I also think it's such an interesting precursor to everything that we have now with the way that social media has really taken off with video, how we digest video, how we consume it, how we make it. And you think about just like handing off cameras, party vibes, a handheld authenticity. This movie, if you were even a year, two years, three years later, could not be made the exact same way that it was and still feel good. Like this is an exact moment of time before even like smartphones, yes, they already existed at this point, but before they really took off in popularity. And I think that is such an a unique approach to found footage because this is, I think, the last moment a movie like this could have been made and made as well as it was.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

It is mind-blowing, honestly, that only what two years later we get Abrams directing Star Trek, and uh also a crime, in my opinion. No, it was actually good. I enjoyed it. It's just, you know, it's more Star Wars than Star Trek, and that's fine. But this is Godzilla Meets the Blair Witch. This is a matter of scale, and not only for like what found footage could be, but what JJ Abrams could be. And I think we've seen we've just seen him blow up from there. I mean, a couple years later we get Super Eight. That was pretty massive in its in its scale as well. I feel like he just is able to get into really large environments and space stuff, obviously, he enjoys as well, which is a lot of fun. But the ingredients are simple. The execution is where it matters here, and I think this execution had not been done before this point. We've seen movies like that are big and huge and explosive and transformers-like, and all that kind of stuff, but nobody really decided to like put a small camera in somebody's hand and also weave all those effects into it at the same time. Uh because you would be like, with this budget that we're gonna need to make that happen, why would we waste it on that sort of a film? And it was like, no, there's a vision. Let's let's see that through you. So I think they deserve major credit for making that happen here, because in any other universe, this would have been just a normal summer blockbuster with a big old monster in it.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah, and I think that it has a lot to do with, again, the combination of Matt Reeves, J.J. Abrams, and Drew Goddard. Like, when you say those names out loud, it's kind of crazy because they are also the same people that gave us, like, my mom loves Felicity. So that's a that's a TBT show, but a great one. Lost, hello. I mean, of course. And then when you think of just Matt Reeves specifically, like the more recent Planet of the Apes films, we've got the new Batman. JJ Abrams has produced like over 40 frickin' films, like the guy's crazy. We've got, we're talking like big productions here, huge productions. And I think a found footage film is just like a weird, like thrown in to the bunch situation. I don't expect it. And ultimately, it's very clear like J.J. Abrams wanted a Godzilla film. He got it, he delivered it. I think it's very much that. I'm here for it. And so I can kind of give it credit for that. I think when I look down the line though, I still feel like it's not necessarily like a blueprint per se for all of the other post-apocalyptic found footage films that we've gotten after the fact. I don't know if Cloverfield is the one that I look back on when I think of all those other films. Does that make sense? If I think of Wreck or Quarantine, you know, those remake, like, well, quarantine the remake of Wreck, but like those two in particular, I rewatched them recently and I was trying to think of that in comparison to Cloverfield. And I know sci-fi, zombie is a little different, but same to an extent in terms of like emotion and what I pictured in my mind. When I think of Cloverfield as a teenager and that hype, it reminds me a lot of the hype that was around Wreck. And I just don't think that I would attribute Cloverfield as like one of the main flagpoles of found footage. I will always think of Blair Witch for sure, but it's a good movie. It's original for sure, but I I think it could maybe have a bigger stake in the conversation or show.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

That is absolutely wild to me because I feel like it's the exact opposite. I feel like it was Blair Witch, Cloverfield. Then I think Wreck is absolutely a better movie, but I think in the States, specifically quarantine being the American adaptation of that, before a lot of people like caught on and watched Wreck. I feel like this is the movie that when people talk about found footage, they either talk about Blair Witch or they talk about Cloverfield. And I remember even thinking, oh my gosh, this was like a very specific one. But when I was in A school and we're going through training for electronic news gathering and like learning how to film your news packages, they're always like, Don't do the monkey cam. Don't you gotta make sure you actually hit record and like your stay framed up and you keep your composition tight and don't and then you stop recording. Like basically they're talking about how many people, because and it's fucking true, it's insane. How many people will inadvertently record the wrong thing or hit record, think they're capturing what they're capturing, and then they hit record when the camera's fucking down. It's so dumb. But all throughout that stint in A school, they're all talking about Cloverfield. And maybe that's a new more niche experience, but even in the in the decades since, Cloverfield has always, at least for me, been a part of the conversation with other people, even bringing it up. And I think it's also because of how powerful and how impactful even the ending is. This is something that when you think of like a fountain footage movie and the tone that this movie has, it shouldn't end cleanly. Like you get closure for sure, but there aren't a lot of clean answers. It ends pretty abruptly. And I think that's in some way, I agree. The whole thesis of the movie, you're not watching just a global event, but you're watching one slice and you're watching it on one night from one vantage point. And that slice is messy, it's imperfect, but for me, that's also what makes it in a lot of ways believable. Like it sell it sells itself emotionally to me. And I think the ending in particular doesn't even undercut the story, but they stay true to the perspective. A little bit of it gets a tiny bit cheesy, and I know there's like an alternate ending of this movie that I think I would prefer more to this ending that's like the theatrical ending, but I can appreciate that you're not meant to walk away from this movie with incredible amounts of knowledge. And for me, that makes it way more interesting.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Oh, it tears me up though. It does. It's always felt like a letdown. And I just I don't know what it is. I think while you're watching it, it can feel really inconclusive and it can feel defeating. Because naturally we all want a like a happy story, we want a happy ending if it's a if it's an ugly story. But I don't know, there's something on the screen before you put pieces together in your brain where you're kind of like, well, what happened? You know, did this happen? Did that happen? And there's all sorts of we don't want to spoil it yet, but there's all sorts of things after the fact that you can get into that reveal, yes, this happened or that didn't happen, these characters are okay, these characters aren't okay, whatever, whatever it is. And so I'm like, okay, I gotta do a little bit more math. But I I'm just personally not a fan of like open-ended stories. I like them to just be done. You make the film, you write the book, whatever it is, and done. And you make a sequel and it's able to somehow pick up the pieces, like start at fresh, great, but like here it almost seemed like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if we show it. And I guess, you know, I guess that's okay. But you know, at the end of The Walking Dead, I I've known friends that have said they just wish that everyone would die and become a zombie. Because then it would just be done, you know, and I don't know that I agree in that particular case, but here I'd almost prefer not having the found footage or having, like you said, Banks, the camera shown off to the side, it falls, it does whatever, and we see everything that could happen, you know, on screen. But that's just me being picky, and there's nothing wrong with that, you know, sort of ending where things are a bit inconclusive on screen. But I just personally don't prefer it that way.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

I think that there's like an alternate universe in my mind where this ending could have maybe carried a little bit more weight uh and maybe taken it across the finish line for me personally to go from like an okay movie that I throw on to wow, at least it really stuck that damn landing. It hit the mark at the end, it's got me curious, it has me wondering. But then I also remember what's to come after. And I don't again, it's stuff that we're gonna unpack in the spoiler zone, but the marketing around this movie is what takes this movie across the finish line to an extent. Because although the ending may not have been it, and Chris, actually, I think reflecting more on what you were saying, I think maybe that on my side of the world, like when this movie is brought up in terms of found footage, it's actually because of the ending that it doesn't feel like it's one of those, like when I think of found footage in the greats, I don't think of this movie, and neither does anybody else around me. I think it has a lot to do with this ending because it's uh it's very abrupt and there's a lot of potential there. But the marketing team for Cloverfields, they did something here. I think that they did something here with this ending, and um it paid off long term. So when I think of it from that frame of reference, I like this ending. Think of it as like just the writing alone and in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Like, oh, it was okay. It could have been better. I am so curious to take the ending of this movie and to take the marketing of it and compare it pound for pound with Blair Witch project and see what the deviation is for you. I'm really, I'm really curious because I had to remind myself of everything that Blair Witch did, and even that movie's ending felt pretty abrupt. So I'd be curious. Maybe we can get back into that into the spoiler zone. But for now, I think it's important that we start making our way towards our ratings before we do though. Mac, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

We get a little bit going on here. I'd call this maybe like a happy medium.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Pretty decent for a PG-13.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

It's it's not too bad. There's it's not too much, and I don't like it when it's too much. So I think that for me is what made it a happy medium.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Well, let's just say it's heavily implied that a lot of animals were done for. So although it's nothing that like is very in our face, plenty of rats that we see, but you know, we don't see them got got. So I'm just gonna say it's like a fishy situation here.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

You know, it's a little curious. All right, well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Cloverfield from 2008, as nominated by Marnie and chosen by the people. Was it a hack or a slash? I think I'll go ahead and just get mine out of the way. This movie is for its time, bold filmmaking. It's honestly, it takes such a big swing on its own format. But what I appreciate and respect about it is it commits to the bit, it stays committed to its perspective and it builds this whole world without ever stepping outside of the camera's point of view. And it's wild to me to appreciate this now. And I know I mentioned this earlier, but to look at this movie and then compare it to and fully recognize it as a post-9-11 anxiety movie, right? It's insane looking back and realizing how much of this movie is pulled from such a specific shared trauma that we all saw relatively early in our lives. And I think there's that emotional through line combined with the action, combined with a disaster, the thriller of it all. It has this energy that feels relentless without feeling for me super gimmicky. And the human moments land so much harder than you'd expect in a movie where a giant creature is stomping through Manhattan, right? Like when you take those two things combined, they don't sound like they go together, but this movie pulls it off. So for me, it's this rare collision of ambition, but also the discipline of restraint. It's a huge concept, but it's from a tiny, narrow perspective. And for me, it still holds up all these years later. And it's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

All right. Well, take your dramamine or smoke them if you got them, because it's it's my turn here. And Shaky Cam and all, you know, I think I've got to give this a slash just straight up up front, just to let you know. I'm not gonna keep it a surprise till the end here, because there's something about this film that had a cultural impact when it came out. And I remember my friends going to see it in theater and raving about it. Notoriously, I don't love being in theaters because I'm just lame or whatever, but like I eventually did see it. And I love sci-fi stuff. Monster stuff, you know, it's it's fine if it's part of sci-fi stuff as well. But as a story goes, it's actually fairly simple. And when you make your way through it, you learn which characters you actually care about and which ones you don't, and things happen to them. Who cares, honestly, by the end of it? I just want to see the cool stuff on the screen. I want to see the sci-fi, and I think this one delivers in some fun ways. It's reminiscent of some other films when you actually do get to see the creatures. Don't want to spoil that here if you haven't seen it yet. But things are creepy and crawly, but also massive and stompy, and I'm I'm here for all of it. Just as a whole, I have to give it a sush. There's parts that I would nitpick. We've mentioned some of them already, and I think it's always had this weird taste in my mouth after watching it because I'm just I'm so torn. It doesn't feel good to watch it for me because I'm very sensitive to this kind of stuff. When you're shaking the camera around like that, I literally, I think the first like 20 minutes of this film have to look away. I just can't watch it. Physically, if I start watching it, I will st I will feel gross. It evens out eventually. I don't know if that's like a something they did on purpose, where it has its moments later on, but it's not as shaky going into it. And so bear through it, you know, let the dramamine sink in and actually get to enjoy kind of what's happening on screen. But this is almost two decades later. And so we have we've got a lot, you know, in between then and now. And I think if you go back, put yourself in that headspace where you're imagining nothing else existed like this. This was massive. And the marketing, Binks mentioned, the marketing was nuts because the best part of the marketing was nothing to do with movie posters. It was everything to do with human beings who went and saw this film. And they spread the gospel of Cloverfield for years to come. And like Chris mentioned, like you can merely mention this movie, and people will have all sorts of emotions come back to them in that very moment, and they'll all go that, ooh, oh, Cloverfield, oh, that's crazy, that sort of reaction. And I think there's a reason for that. It earned it. It's so much better than the witch movie that we've mentioned. Oh my goodness, that poor Blair Witch, what a tragedy that it was filmed. But this one here, I think, deserves to be recognized for being found footage, deserves to be recognized as being actually good found footage. And so because of that, it's a slash.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

You know, the upset of the century is this right there, because I thought, you know, even if Mac respects this movie, surely he'd hack it because it's found footage. Wow, Mac, thank you for proving me wrong.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Look, I just I have to enjoy it for what it is, not hate it for what it's not.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Very interesting. And with that, I will go next because I've talked a lot about how people revere found footage and like what are like the pillars of found footage and its origins. And Blair Witch, yes, is one of them. But I think I've shared this in a previous episode. And if not, everyone brace yourselves. I don't like Blair Witch Project. I really don't, but I can respect it for it being, you know, what it is, an icon of found footage, an originator, and and changing the game completely. And I do think that Cloverfield deserves that kind of respect because, like I mentioned just earlier, in my world, I guess, in my little bubble, a lot of people don't like this movie. And I think because they don't like it, they don't respect it. And I don't think that's fair. I think that it has value. I think that the marketing alone definitely did something, and people will always talk about Cloverfield. And you say Cloverfield and you're gonna think of this movie, and thus it worked. But alas, I have to think of just the movie itself. And even though I throw this on from time to time and I've watched it plenty, it's one of those where like you can watch a movie even though it's not really your favorite. There's plenty of movies that I think are bad that I'll throw on to have a laugh. And this is kind of in that realm. It's not entirely bad, but I think with the amount of times that I've seen this, I've shared before, like it's not a movie that I think has like a great rewatch value to its like the ratio of its dialogue not being so great, the shakiness of it all. I talked about my nitpick with the found footage thing, which again, great counterpoints for sure. I'll admit that. But the more that I watch it, the more evident it is to me that this is just like an action film. This is not a horror. I have a good laugh with some of the characters in particular. That's probably the reason that I'm re-watching it most of the time. But it's not really like one that's for me. It's not my cup of tea. I can definitely respect it. I think that it's got its place for some people, and I've probably ruined it for myself watching it so much. So I am going to give it a hack, but I will say, can't wait for us to discuss a little bit further, that what it gives afterwards, at least 10 Cloverfield Lane, if we want to be more specific. I'll I'll I'm giving it a hack, but I'm giving it a little bit of love with that for giving me at least 10 Cloverfield Lane in exchange.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

How do I walk back from this disappointment? So sorry. I don't fully know. Okay. Well, with that, folks, Cloverfield has somehow not earned a universal slash, but is rather two slashes and one pack. Now you can find this movie in a number of places, particularly on free on YouTube if you want to check it out. I want you to refresh yourself on this movie. If you haven't seen it yet, check it out for the first time. Then join us in the second half because I think Binks has a lot of explaining to do. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

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SPEAKER_01 44:52

Welcome back, folks. You're not entering the spoiler zone for Clover Field from 2008, which has earned one hack and two splashes. Now we have a lot to unpack here and maybe defend here. But before we get into all that, let's go in to those kills, Mac.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

We have quite a few kills. We have a couple of kills about characters that we know and love, but all in all, the grand total of kills is something like 1.6 million human souls. Which is pretty epic. We've got all sorts of kills here. We've got stomping, uh biting-induced explosion kills, swatting away into a truck kind of kills. But what were your favorites?

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Listen, can we all just appreciate for a moment Lily Kaplan and her character dying by headplosion behind a curtain after she done got got? You know that it's coming because she doesn't feel great. She lingers back and forth between this, I'm good, no, I'm not, I don't feel right. And I've never seen Avengers Endgame, but it's somehow giving I'm not feeling too good, Mr. Stark. I don't even know what the exact quote is, but I feel like she's about to get Thanos snapped right out of this movie. And then all of a sudden she's taken in this commotion, and HUD, who has a crush on her, has to watch her explode.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Well, definitely was my favorite kill, but not my favorite kill, because I love this character and I love Lizzie Kaplan, but in all reality, it's just like visually shocking as well. I almost wanted to say beautiful, and that's maybe like my fucked up brain, but the way that she looks with just the blood, you know, pooling and tearing down from her eyes, the commotion. I also like that it's off-screen, but not like she's so far away, but that red that just like blows up on that tarp is bright as hell. You like you have an idea that it's coming, of course, but you sure hope that it you that it doesn't happen. Yep, it's very much like that, actually. It's very much like that figure of Michael Myers that you're holding up because beautiful but terrifying.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

What a kill though. I mean, honestly, because like you banks, of course, I love her. I enjoyed her and new girl as well as anyone else. But when we get to this moment, I didn't think it was gonna go that way the first time. I thought it was gonna be kind of like an alien situation, something's gonna burst out of her and start chomping on other people, and they were like, nah, disposed of, dog. She's gonna just pop like a frickin' grape or something, and then it was pretty gross. And they just moved quickly right on past it, just kept on trucking. And that was, I think that's what made it worse, honestly, is because of the fact that it was so fast-paced. Everything's going on, and they have to keep moving. Because if we had to linger on it, it would almost like cheapen it in a way, if you just sat there viewing the corpse or something afterwards, and it was like bam, and then keep moving on, run, run, run, get into this hallway, like we have to do all this other stuff and whatever. And then I think you feel robbed, like you feel like something taken away. So you actually feel a little bit of a sense of loss because of what happened and because of the way that they shuffled you on after it. And I think the fact that both of you brought this up is hilarious because that was also my number one as well. But I had a backup, okay. I had a backup, and that was the bridge attack. Because the bridge attack also hits different in the year of our Lord 2025, when we've seen stuff go down with bridges, quite unfortunately, in recent years. And when they got onto that bridge, the first thought that comes into your mind in this year is that bridge has got to go down. There's no way they're gonna make it across. And they're gonna be moving along nice and slow. And as things slow down, that's when it's gonna feel gross. And yeah, as soon as that phone call happens and he's like, no, no, wait a, wait, just a minute, right? And everyone's like, no, I'll keep moving. I was like, it doesn't matter. You can keep moving, you can stop moving. That thing's gonna take out that bridge and you're all gonna die. And when we saw Rob's brother, you know, right in right in the middle of the frame and the big foot tentacle pod thing, or whatever that thing was, just smacked on the bridge. It was like, yep, that's I knew that was gonna happen. I don't know if it was gonna, you know, smash everyone in the face and they were gonna like, you know, blood splosion as well, but I knew something was coming down.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Imagine being Rob in this situation. You see your brother go, and then you have to answer for him going later to take a phone call and then have to explain that your brother's gone. Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

What's interesting about the kills is watching it. My wife's like, was it is this a sea monster? Because we haven't really seen everything yet, and she's kind of watching in and out of doing work at the same time. And just wait, you'll see more, don't worry. It kind of could be a sea monster, it's kind of an everything monster at this point. So it's it's fair game to call it whatever you want to, but you imagine if you if that's all you had seen, you're you're thinking, is this like a giant octopus or squid or something? And it's just, you know, throwing a tentacle at it, and you're like, no, no, no, no, it's much, much more interesting than that, I guess. But I think there were some decent kills, but I think it actually was a little it was a little light on some of them, you know?

SPEAKER_01 49:54

Yeah, yeah. I don't disagree with you. We also just acknowledge for a second that Rob and Beth dying at the end really means this whole fucking movie was for nothing.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

How did the video camera survive when they got absolutely turned into shots?

SPEAKER_01 50:08

I don't see this as a moment where the video camera actually survives, Mac. This is something where even you have a lot of fucked up devices that are just absolutely destroyed, and you're still still able to access some kind of memory card or tape or something to that nature.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Well I'll give you I'll give you credit for that because when the Columbia went down, unfortunately, re-entering the atmosphere, they did find things like a journal still intact, and that is insane considering what happened. So I guess it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Yeah. I think the other side of it is man, uh you if you think about like how many events happen, and obviously this video camera is not the equivalent of a black box in an airplane, but little traces of things like that. I mean, you're able to, especially this is like a government asset at this point. I imagine some kind of digital forensics is able to recover something to that to some extent. But man, again, I'm just thinking back, but I want to point out a couple things. One, if Rob doesn't fucking have this massive fear of commitment, this movie doesn't happen because you know what? Yeah, they're gonna be at that party. She's probably gonna be at that party with him if he's even going to Japan, but they'd be evacuating together. So that's one. Two, the other side of this is the alternate ending of this movie shows that they both live.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Okay, so they did some screenings and they realized people don't like that one as much as this one. Really? That's who the people were at the time. They preferred this to them living and potentially being open to I don't know, sequel involving them if they had wanted to, or just like them, I don't know, all their efforts having meant something. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Yeah, I I think in 2008, I mean you remember, this is right before the economy absolutely fucking tanks in the housing market. I think we're in the point where we're like, yeah, we can take some more nihilism in our films, and now we're just so tired of being sad and stressed, and we're like, no, give us hope, give us rob, give us Beth. They're not good for each other. If they walk out of this alive, their relationship's not lasting. They're gonna trauma bond and then resent each other a few years later. But still, you know, at this point, the girl just has been through so much. Give her a chance.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

But what was the reasoning for them staying alive, or or how does that even logistically play out? Does this explosion still happen and somehow because they're under a tunnel, they're okay? But I mean, at that point, infrastructure doesn't really matter anymore in terms of logistics.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

Yeah, I mean, we'd have to link some. I'm gonna see if I can find it online. I'll just link it in the show notes so everybody can watch it for themselves. I haven't personally seen the alternate ending, I just know that it exists, and I I do think I prefer the idea of that more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

I like it. I like the idea as well. Um, I like it more than how HUD got got because I think the first time you watch it, you're like, did something happen to him or did he just pick him up and drop him? And it takes another viewing to realize, oh, he just got snatched and chomped on. And I'm not sure why. I don't know, did he need to? You know, I mean, by this point he's been very annoying, but eventually he settles into like classic, you know, problematic bad boy TJ humor, where it's like, I have a feeling an inkling that this guy might be entertaining, and then nah, we're just gonna snap him up. And that, you know, this is the part where it's like, come on, some decisions could have been made slightly differently. At least give him a heroic goodbye or something, or make him get bit and have to blood splode like everyone else.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

Well, it just seems abrupt, even for the person that the audience is supposed to be during this entire film. Like, we are HUD, right? We're from his perspective, he's the one holding the camera basically the whole time. So for him to suddenly just go to an extent. I mean, eventually, I suppose he had to meet his end so that we get like the lovers are the final ones standing so that we can get that alternative ending, I suppose. But it just feels a little off. It it feels off. And then also just the shot alone, like it's so close to his face that again at that point I'm like, are you taking a self recording a selfie of you dying right now? Basically, feels weird.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

I think for me it's what is more weird about that death is just thinking that this creature, this entity, this thing, is looking at the smallest crumb of food on the ground and saying, Yeah, let me get that shit. Think about the scale of this thing. If I try to pick up a crumb off of a kitchen island, I have hope that it my finger just kind of sticks to it. I can't grasp that very cleanly, depending on how small the crumb is. And I think that's just like a very strange decision to make. Now, all of them getting scooped up, I get him getting scooped up kind of like when a whale opens its mouth and then things get in there and get trapped in the teeth because it's trying to like, you know, get some water, get some kelp. That would make more sense to me. But uh yeah, you your boy got numbed.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

I agree with you actually, because I feel like that's the purpose of the parasites, though. Because and when I think of maybe we can use like a quiet place, right? Like the scale of those monsters to attack maybe one or two people isolated makes sense in terms of predator and prey. But when you are a whale, to your point, you would probably annihilate whole buildings and consume them whole. You'd do the bridge thing. Why would you chase one blonde funny boy down? And or I mean, I guess not chase down, right? But like that's your prey is just one guy in the middle of a field.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

It is funny that you mentioned the little parasites because I, upon seeing them, can only think of Pacific Rim. And I'm like, oh, they're mites, just like in Pacific Rim. That's that's what we're getting here. But maybe maybe they weren't, maybe they're so long for the ride, but not mites, just kind of working like they do in a way. But I don't know that they served a purpose to the greater organism. And his head did seem small for such a large creature. So I guess it is possible that like you, you know, you're eating your cereal and you drop one fruit loop. It's just, you know, you're like, okay, I want the last little fruit loop.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Yeah, but is TJ Miller fruit loop size for clover? Is that the is that the scale that we're working on here? Is are humans fruit loops? Or are they, I don't know, a chocolate chip?

SPEAKER_03 56:22

The dust, or not even the dust off the fruit loop.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Yeah. One quarter fruit loop. I have eaten a single grain of rice before, so it is possible. You know, you eat everything and you're like, this is so good. I want that last little grain of rice.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

Yeah, okay, that's sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. Mac, in this scenario, you're eating the bowl, one grain of rice falls out, and you're like, oh yeah, let me get that. This is like you walk into Chipotle, and over on the kitchen island in the prep station, there is a single grain of rice in the middle of it, and you're like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Yeah, that's you know, it was spiteful. I think when he looked at him and he leaned in for it, I think he was just kind of like F U2, dude. That's he just had that look in his eyes that I mean, I don't know if Clever's a here or not, but it looked into his soul and was like, not one of you shall stand.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

Yeah, yeah, that's fair. And let me tell you, for as much as TJ Miller was doing behind this character, everything about Hood just navigating and filming this entire thing, I think the found footage of it all and the way this film is shot, maybe a standout for better or worse for some people. But for me, what really sells this movie in addition to that is the sound design specifically because it really fucking does feel like you're just getting the horror of what's happening, even the way that the sound kind of is overmodulated in some spaces, it feels true to what that experience should sound like. And that's something that you have to like really navigate with a deaf hand in terms of also mastering that for a theatrical experience. But I'm thinking about even the thuds in the background, like when they're in the bodega, there's like dust everywhere filling the street, and you can still hear these like sounds in the background. It's like, okay, those explosions are all those fucking monster footsteps, right? This movie sells it so much, even with just as much as you can hear versus just what you see on the screen.

SPEAKER_00 58:21

I love that because I think what this what this movie shows you is that stuff that's going on in the background really matters. With a lot of found footage, I think you can lean on that in the wrong way where nothing's going on on screen, and you're just trying to scare people with the implication, and it's just never enough. And this one's like, no, no, it all matters. Show stuff on screen and fill in that background, whether it's sound effects, music, or visually. And I think for me, the visual background stuff was some of the most interesting, and uh it made me feel like a little bit of uh children of men vibes because they have some amazing like one-shot scenes in children of men where there's a lot of action going on really fast. And this reminded me of that when the soldiers show up and there's just like really fast action, there's people running, they're firing, the camera turns, we're seeing what they're firing at. It's some really cool stuff going on in the corners of the frame. And and talking about like the the bodega, if we're looking at like the little tech store that they're in and we get to see what's on the TV and what's going on there, and I think that kind of stuff helps add richness to this dish here, because if we focus only on one small thing and try to give you exposition that way, you know, okay, I guess that's fine. You're going like one piece at a time, but we're giving you all the senses all at once, and I love that.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Matt, can we just appreciate for a second? And you're just talking about the electronic store. You remember why they're in the fucking store? You remember when batteries used to be interchangeable on a phone? You could just hot swap.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

What an amazing time to have lived in.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Let's just go back to that for a little bit. Now you walk in, you're gonna get a like a portable battery, okay? Yeah, you can just keep it going, but damn, what a time that was. That wasn't that long ago. I mean, now it feels like an eternity, but it doesn't feel like it was that long ago that we could just press a little button on the side, pop the battery out, pop a new one in.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

Well, this, I mean, this was like what release in 2008. So this is around the time the tides are changing, and shortly thereafterwards, everyone's just gonna have a big old slab of a screen staring them in the face. But this is that moment where we're not quite there yet, and you still have single-use devices, you still have a camera that you carry around just for taking photos, you still have a device that you carry around for MP3s or CDs, whichever one you could afford. And so this was a really interesting time technologically, because we had this mixture going on before all of it got squeezed into a single device. And so those kind of stores could exist and do something useful. And if you were to try to move that scene into 2025, people would be like, What why are they going in? They need a charging cable.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Yeah, or they need again a little power bank.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

But that's what makes it interesting for like a setting and to incorporate the genre of sci-fi. I feel I always have loved like sci-fi at a time period where we're at the turn of technology, so early 2000s or even the late 90s. I feel like that's kind of cool because like society in and of itself is already being introduced to some pretty at the time crazy technology that seems mind-blowing, but then you're also having to deal with aliens and like crazy monsters and things too. So all that's like an interesting concept. So that's that makes for a good time. I do wonder though, um how how a lot of like our more modern sci-fi films would look if they were found footage. And I've made my qualms about the idea that they basically filmed this on what for 2008 was seemed to be like an IMAX camera at that point, but it obviously wasn't. It's just Sony being Sony. And I listen, I'm the daughter of a former Sony employee, so I I get it. Love them. Love them. But I think it's kind of like cool at the same time. It's I think that on the one hand, I wish it was grittier, but on the other, it could be far worse. Like I rather that it's what it is right now, just barely gritty enough. Could have been a little more blue. It's the 2000s, I want my more blue, but we got that when Marlena died and the whole that whole army base.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

So listen, nah, nah, nah. That auto white balance doesn't need to be making that shit more blue. But let me tell you this. I'm gonna offer, especially you with your fucking blue tinting on the video for this call right now. Yeah, okay. Always, yeah, yeah. You're fucking pale, white, and ice cold is what you are. Okay. I know. Okay, you raised a concept. What if these sci-fi movies that we have now were found footage? I'd like to bring to the table a movie that was absolutely panned critically earlier this year, which was on Amazon Prime, the remake of War of the Worlds with Ice Cube. I thought it was kind of fun. No bullshit, like it's not a great movie, but I I enjoyed it. Like, I had fun watching it, and then I watched the Tom Crew Tom Cruise version after that. And I listen, I just appreciate that story as a whole. But even then, right, think about the difference in technology and how we portray a large-scale disaster and one vantage point of it, but from a completely different perspective, someone in the government who has multiple vantage points and what kind of cameras and technology we're using now. It's just wild. Like that's a that's a parody, that's a double feature. Maybe I should have done a fucking watch party like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

Holy shit. I haven't seen that ice cream one, but it would be a good double feature actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

I refused to watch. I still haven't seen it because it just seems so insane that it got made. If you found it entertaining, I might have to consider it. Maybe one morning when I wake up extra early and I've got nothing to do, and and I just want to fill some time in the background. I might I might have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Yeah, put it on while you do your puzzles on your phone, Mac. I think it's just like a fun little watch. I like Ice Cube a lot, like in in movies. I thought it was entertaining. I think it had some heart. And I think I'm also just like a sucker for disaster movies. So like you put any kind of disaster movie on, I'm there. I'm gonna watch it. And you also like fan footage, you know? Like for me, I I enjoy that. So you put those two things to mind. I'm gonna be at least interested. I'm gonna at least be curious.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

Binks, I do want you to know that you can go into a Target today and spend about 60 bucks to get a camcorder, eight megapixels, looks like a handy cam, you know, many revisions later. But there's still hope that we can get more found footage for you, not for me, but like you know, they can make it. People can go out there today and do their own.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

Listen, we're gonna talk about this in the B side, but I also propose found footage via meta ray bands.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:08

That would be very cool. Very much for that. And also, I want to make it known that in Japan I bought a handy cam like Panasonic camera for real cheap. It's literally behind me in that closet, so I'm ready to go. I talk a lot of shit, okay? But I'm ready to make my own clover field. Cullen is gonna be the Clover, I guess, is gonna be the monster. We'll just find a way to make him really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

What a great pet name. I've been trying to think about if I get another pet, what would the name be? Clover. It's gonna be Clover. Fuck.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

Love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

Solid choice.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

But look, I was talking a lot about the blue of it all and just the clarity and and just how this was all filmed. But I will say that one scene that I really appreciate that I think is like a good contrast of the rest of the movie, or like has some good like ebbs and flows, this roller coaster that AMC Theaters was marketing. All throughout is there's like moments of silence, like silent chaos, right? Because there's a lot of we gotta go, we gotta keep walking, the rats, we're in the subway, like what's happening? We gotta follow this line, keep going. But then we find the military at this point. We've gotten to where we need to be. And then it's like it's I I love moments where it's just quiet, you go through a door, and then it's like organized chaos, lots of sounds, but I'm talking efficiency. I'm talking a plan. The government was ready. The military, they knew what the hell they were doing. There was a plan, people were moving and grooving, they were helping here. Hey, listen, this one got bit. Let's go going there. When Marlena, my girl, she got bit and was not looking good. They were on her like wet on rice. They were ready to go. It's just, I liked an efficient military scene structure of in a post-apocalyptic environment because I feel like other times we just have the military running amok. They don't even know what's going on, lots of screaming at each other. But it felt like somehow the military here actually had it together in this one isolated moment. That's not to say that they definitely had it all together, you know, in general, because obviously they seem to have been losing this war with Clover, but it felt like, wow, they're ready to go. They've got plans, they've got things to do, they're moving and shaking. Like, we gotta keep it going.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

There's the Virgo.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

I like the idea that the plan was a good plan. It's a good thing to hold on to. And, you know, just I always assume incompetence, but in this case, at least they had a mission and objectives and they were working on it. Unlike our main characters, when they decided to scale this massive building. Holy shit. They were looking for a little girl just pinned down. And that was, first of all, incredibly dangerous, but apparently they survived. They made it all the way up there. They removed her from the rebar sticking through her shoulder, and she didn't bleed out by the time they made it to the bottom floor. Utterly ridiculous. However, it was entertaining, and I think this was perhaps when we got some of TJ Miller's best lines in the film, where he got to be like a little bit spicy with his comedy. And so that whole segment was cool. The shots we got from that high up were also kind of cool. And so, yeah, I gotta give him credit for kind of the whole thing. It was ridiculous, but this was some of the most entertaining Cloverfield got to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:30

Yeah, it was it was doing the most. That's what I'm talking about. That man was scaling that building with a camera on, recording everything so that we could get the shot. It's beautiful. Thank you so much. It feels a little fast and the furious, but like in the sense of ridiculousness. But thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

Was it for us to look at the shot, or was it for him, hoping he'd make it out alive, to say this is gonna be a story for the rest of our lives, and you're always gonna owe me. You need receipts. Now, my favorite scene was much simpler than that. Obviously, I think the subway is a is a huge one. Scaling up this tower is insane. But for me, it really is going back to the moment that was teased and promised through those teasers, which is the Statue of Liberty's head rolling down the street and being revealed. It is the moment where the movie feels like it's declaring itself. You have this like crowd of New Yorkers gathering, there's disbelief, everyone's panicking. And it's it feels like this moment of what the fuck is going on? Because everything up to this point is incredibly mysterious. But what could have possibly happened that decapitated the Statue of Liberty? The scale of that is just insane to me. It was the right moment to choose for the teaser, but when it happens and then it happens as is almost like this catalyst for the rest of what's about to unfold. I absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

It is one of those moments, kind of like the Prometheus movies, where if something is coming from a direction towards you, don't continue on in that same vector, go to the side. And I don't know, maybe they didn't have an alley nearby, but everyone's just running the same direction the head flew in. And I'm like, just go go the other way, go sideways. You you're all gonna be crushed if something else were to fly from off in the distance. In that same way, it's gonna smooth you by the time you've made it to the next stoplight. That's absolutely crazy. But the immediate thought I had when it hit was like, is it that small? Because I thought it was bigger.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

So, from what I recall, they actually made the scale of the head in this movie bigger than it actually is in real life.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

Now that is wild because all of us probably had the a similar kind of conclusion that it's just like this massive thing, and so it would not play well on camera because people would be like, oh, that's like a replica or something. It's not, it couldn't be the real thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

No, no, sure. Seemed like a little bit of a dramatization, but hey, for me it still worked. I was never struck by the size or the potential lack thereof in the size category, because for me it was just about, oh, I recognize what that is, and that's not supposed to be in the middle of a street. That's crazy. Absolutely not. But the reality is that these characters are not super bright, and I want to be clear, I like all of them, but re-watching it now, I just think, Rob, my guy, what are you doing? Because you feared commitment, you were scared about what would happen. This girl clearly loved you. You did not have the cajones to do anything about it. You get upset when she shows up with another guy because she has moved on in the months since you hooked up, whatever. Okay, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But there's all of that, and then coming to realize yes, okay, I want to do something about this and I want to fix my mistake. Okay, but also you're gonna take all your friends with you. You're gonna allow all your friends with everything that's happening and everyone's lives on the line, you're going to leave them to their death. That's crazy. One by one. One by one. And this person could not possibly live up to the sacrifice that all of your friends made to bring you two together.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

And what's also just like another stab is, and we maybe we haven't really talked too much about this, actually, is like we're watching this disaster, and then it cuts every now and then to that date that they had. And so we also have to watch, okay, and it's cute, you know, it's meant to buy into their relationship, but like you can't help but wonder afterwards, Rob, what the fuck's wrong with you, my boy? Oh, she's so happy, it's such a cute day, it looks like it's going well. Why are you being such a clown?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

So it's actually kind of confusing because I think when you move from the very first scene of this movie where they're together enjoying a night and a morning into the party scene, it's not super duper clear right away that, like, oh, they're not a thing. And so at first, it's kind of like, is this later when they've broken up? And then you realize, oh, this was a one-off. It kind of seems like you guys had decent chemistry. You had bedcam, and I don't know, I don't know what you did with it. I don't know how you lost where you were and then got to where you are now, doesn't make a lot of sense. But also, if she's happy and she's moved on, uh, be an adult and move on with your life, bro.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

It just it seemed like he was a bit obsessive in that moment. Later on, it seems like, okay, there is a thing, and they really apparently do care about each other that much that they're going to, you know, move across New York City to get to each other. But I don't know. In the early film, it definitely seemed like, well, she had fun and you did too, but you had more fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

All I'm saying is Clover ain't the only monster stalking the streets of New York. What a savage. I get it. Also, okay, sure, you have all this change coming up. It's not to like completely shit on Rob. I get it. But it is this idea of okay, you come to your senses, and I think that he has a conversation before any of this happens where he's being talked to by his closest friends to say, no, you gotta go tell her you love her. She obviously is here with you, like she's on this. So, regardless of what's gonna happen, it's clear that he's gonna be on this path to her, but you're also bringing everybody with you, and it's just such a shame. What else are you gonna do? You have your closest group of friends. I would imagine you probably would all want to stick together in that. But the lengths that Rob is going through to get to Beth, while admirable, greatly jeopardizes everybody else that's around them. And you just have to wonder where is that line? If you are in this situation, what is the line and what is the point of no return? And would you go rescue your situationship? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:06

I think maybe it's a matter of like pride. And I don't quite know if if it came off that way entirely. Maybe that's too bit of a strong word to put it, but like typically that is the word that I would think of the ego. You rather not take accountability for what you've done to hurt the situation and being avoidant or etc., right? Like not vocalizing how you feel. Now these are the repercussions of those actions. So now you have to deal with it. And now there is a massive alien destroying New York City. So now you really should the bed.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:38

All I'm saying, folks, is if you have someone who looks at you the way that Rob looks at Beth and Beth looks at Rob, don't wait for a fucking alien to destroy your neighborhood before you think, wow, maybe I do want to be with this person. Just look love in the face and accept it. Take a chance on yourself. You deserve it. I know Rob and Beth deserved each other. Like they clearly made each other very happy. I just wish that they had uh, you know, figured that out sooner before going through all this shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:09

Can we call out HUD though for spilling the beans as soon as he found out they hooked up? Because that seems like a weird thing to do for a wingman.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Listen, he is that person in the friend group you can't tell shit to 100%. And I was just having this conversation earlier today. I was like, oh, well, if this person knows something, then the whole group, this whole collection of people absolutely knows it because it's it doesn't stay put. There's no confidentiality here, there's no integrity, no trust.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:35

Good person, not a vault. No, because he's going to record it on his little handicam.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:40

And then throw it back in your face, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:43

And then he's just gonna say, Well, you asked me to do this.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

That is a good point. There's one person I think in this friend group you could trust, and that is Marlena, because stand up gal, all the way through, the way she deals with HUD in the beginning, mad respect. She's just not here for it. There's something so endearing about the fact that she knows how to deal with jerks in her life. And I just, it's the most New York thing about this movie is basically the way that she responds.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:07

Yeah, I mean, I like Marlena. I like her a lot. I also like Lily. And I want to live in this headcanon where Lily's helicopter is not the one that crashes and she's not doomed. I think if anyone deserved to make it out, it was her.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

Also agreed. I think those two together, unfortunately, one of them didn't make it through this, but those two together would have made a great sequel had we been able to have one, you know, again, where they both survived.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

Jokes on you, the Cloverfield Paradox is Lily's descendant.

unknown 1:17:37

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:38

I'm just kidding. I have no fucking clue what the Cloverfield Paradox is. That'd be crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

I don't think that's true, by the way, but that would be insane and silly. But there's this second viewing or third viewing or fourth viewing when you actually get to focus on the characters, it it's a good thing because the first time you're looking at all the shiny things, you're looking at all the bright things, the explosions, you're just trying to track. And it's not till later when you actually get to like figure out who's who, who cares about who, why does that even matter? Who do I care about when going into this? And so, yeah, you know, 15 years, 17 years later, whatever it is, it's kind of a nice change, I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:09

For sure. And I think that like arguably, I I do enjoy HUD and Marlena's Woody banter together. I think that they're a good pair and comedic relief, most definitely. But to me, I think going back to what I was saying much earlier in the episode where I'm talking about like the marketing of it all, the best part of Cloverfield is that it gave us 10 Cloverfield Lane. And I think that the marketing of Cloverfield was as great as it was because they committed to the bit overall of being ominous about Cloverfield at the start by just giving us that teaser of you know the Saturday Liberty Head roll and route. They committed to that bit, made it made us curious, etc. But then when Ten Cloverfield Lane came out, do you guys remember that at least from what I can recall, they were never explicitly saying that it was a sequel. Actually, they said that it had nothing to do with Cloverfield for a good while. They tried to keep us as curious as possible about 10 Cloverfield Lane, that it's a coincidence, that this, I mean, like they were really smart about it. So that when you realize that this is a bigger picture after all, it kind of goes back to what I was saying about the ending, because the ending of this movie, although it feels like a worst part for a lot a lot of people, I think when I'm now looking back on the bigger picture and the worlds that Cloverfield is, okay, the little bit here where we see something randomly drop into the ocean. What the fuck was that? You know? The the reversal of what the alien is saying at the very end post-credits, like these small things, but we never saw another movie for like years afterwards, obviously. You're kind of like, what the fuck is this all for? I mean, everything just exploded. What are we doing here? And then you think of 10 Cloverfield Lane. Damn, okay, we got a sequel. The ending makes sense. Wait, it's not a sequel. Oh, all right. Well, I guess I'm gonna show up to the theater. It's just all of these things that, like, I don't know, I really appreciate the bigger picture. And it has nothing actually to do with Cloverfield specifically, but just the franchise as a whole, which is why I'm like, why have I not seen Paradox? Maybe it's really great. Maybe it unpacks a lot more to a lot of what we've been saying that we don't even realize. So I'm gonna have to check that one out soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

It really is the JJ Abrams mystery box of it all. And have you read the book S that he did? No. So S is really interesting because it's it comes in like a slip cover and it's a couple stories in one because it's a book, but two people are communicating with each other with a written comment in the margins in the book, and it's like a whole level and like multiple layers of story, and it plays very much into this whole mystery box concept. So that's something that I recommend checking out if you really just want like the bigger picture and the lore of everything. It has nothing to do with Chloverville, to be clear, but just unraveling something with depth and multiple layers and a tiered approach. I think it's really fascinating. For me, the worst part of this movie is realizing that this man really did it all for the Nookie. And I can't wait to nominate this at the end of the year for the worst Nookie Sacrifice Award, because that's really what this movie is. This movie is about a group of friends who undergo and encounter something absolutely horrific and cannot escape because one of them's in a situation ship that he has to own up to now. And good for Beth. I mean, it was all for nothing. That's terrible. But let's take the version of the ending where they actually live. Better to live with your situationship than die crumbling with like rebar stuck and impaled in you as your home collapses because of a big ass alien, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

And I'm just gonna sit here and be the guy that says the worst part is shaky cam gorilla filmmaking, because it's just a nauseating shtick. And I could have done without it, because that's always my answer. Anytime we get a film that's like this, it just would have been better had we filmed it like normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Is it gonna stop you from ever watching it again?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

No, and I actually think this is one of those times where have all of us have not seen the certain film. And I think this is one of those times where it's like you need to see them as a trilogy, maybe not necessarily back to back unless you have the time for it, but like perhaps day after day after day to really kind of like soak it in, because apparently, not that they are like continuations, but there's more glue when you've seen everything. And so I'd I'd be interested to see if that's true or not based on what people have said.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:48

Yeah, most definitely. Listen, I know I hacked it, but as I've said, I've watched this movie a ton of times. And now that we've crossed the threshold where like it didn't really age as well for me doesn't mean that I would never see this movie again. It's less than 90 minutes. I mean, I could be doing all kinds of errands with this in the background, you know. But at the very least, I can promise you that I will be doing a franchise binge watch because I have not re-watched 10 Cloverfield Lane since the first time that I've seen it. I love it so much, but I have not re-watched it. So I'm gonna save the rewatch for this trifecta binge that I'll be doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

Wow. Well, I am so glad that I watched this in such a different way than when I last saw this movie. The last time I ever saw this movie was in the theater when it came out. But I think I'm gonna give it some time and some breathing room. I love that this movie has aged so well for me, and I still found it to possess the same level of magic that I fell in love with as a kid. So I'm just gonna keep it on a basis of I don't want to outstay my welcome with this movie. I do want to watch 10 Cloverfield Lane, and then I will watch the subsequent movie. I think that's gonna be important to do. But time will tell how the entire franchise ages for us, for me, for you, Mac, for you, Binks. I'm so excited to see how this shakes out. But for now, there you have it, folks. Cloverfield from 2008, as nominated by our patrons, has earned one hack and two slashes. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:25

If you want to make your own found footage film with us, consider supporting the show by visiting patreon.com slash hackerslash. This is where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our beast sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:39

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember.