372: The Wolf Man (1941)

Show Opener

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello, where the hell you been, Loca?

Greetings & Salutations

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Greetings and salutations and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Your suffering is now over. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a splash.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

We believe a horror is for everyone, and it says we're rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors that feel we fans the most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur, Shaw.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

What big eyes you have, Grandma?

SPEAKER_02 0:48

This week we're exploring our fourth classic Universal Monster as we prepare to see its 2025 reboot in theaters next week.

Movie Introduction

SPEAKER_02 1:15

The film explores the werewolf legend with a story rooted in curses, folklore, and the inevitability of fate, as an aristocrat named Larry Talbot returns to his family estate. But he crosses paths with a captivating woman, a mysterious carnival, and an ancient curse that changes his life forever. The film became a cornerstone of the Universal Monsters Legacy as it wielded groundbreaking makeup effects that set the standard for monster transformations, and a performance by Lon Cheney Jr. that cemented him in horror history. This week we're talking about the wolfman.

Spoiler-free Discussion

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Sean, had you seen this one before? It feels silly to ask.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah, I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Obviously, you've seen this before.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Obviously.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

You were the fucking wolf man for Halloween.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I was the Wolfman for Halloween some moons ago, and I feel like, you know, look, we all know I'm a huge fan of the classics and especially the Universal Monster movies. So yeah, I mean, I've definitely seen this one more times than I can count, along with its sequels. And actually, I think I was just watching this really just this past Halloween. I feel like it was just on during the day, and I just happened to have, I think it was Turner Classic movies on, and it was on, and I was watching it, and it was a good time.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

See, I've seen this one, but I've never seen any other variation of Wolfman.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Really?

SPEAKER_02 2:35

I've never seen the sequels, I've never seen the remake, none of it. I've only seen this original version. Yeah. I saw it a bunch when I was younger, and then Sean, you inspired me to just go ahead and make a great purchase, the entire collection. So now I own a digital 4K copy of this. Awesome. Which feels fantastic. I had it up on my TV after I started getting settled into my new apartment, and it was such a perfect, cozy way to spend the day. And really going into it again. I was curious to see how it'd feel because I purchased it a couple years ago now at this point, but I actually hadn't watched it in a very, very, very long time.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, and I think for me, it's really hard to have any expectations going into this movie anymore because I just feel like, you know, I'm always just looking forward to watching a good old monster flick. And I don't know about any of you, but I really love all the lore in this movie. You know, you've got the story of the werewolf, and that story, it's always been one that I feel like intrigued me. The writer for this film did a lot of research into the old folklore and whatnot surrounding werewolves before writing this screenplay, and I love how that added to the feel of this movie.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

100%. And Sean, you mentioned earlier it was on Turner Classic Movies. This movie is classic, it feels classic. It is exactly the kind of movie in the era of film that I want to put on the TV when it's raining out, I'm curled up with a blanket, maybe got a nice little warm drink, and I just want to feel like a cozy, cozy bitch.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Because this movie has the warmth of nostalgia. Never mind the wolf man of it all. This is just stellar cinematography, it's stellar set design, it is just wholesome. Even though it's a pretty brutal movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, it is very brutal and it is very violent for sure. And it is something that I'm sure could have been a little bit risque for its time. You know, I'm not a film historian or anything like that, but I do think that, you know, when you watch some of the stuff in here, you might be surprised at how aggressive it may be depicted, even though you don't get to see everything visually. But also, yes, like all the feelings that you get while watching this movie is it's because it's so atmospheric, right? Like I think it's just everything is so beautiful. And it's interesting because we also just watched and reviewed Nosferatu, right? 2024. And I feel like that movie for this time right now felt like a beautiful film. Like the way everything looked and sounded and fell into place, it was very, it felt very timeless, very classic, and really beautiful to watch. And this it feels a little bit like watching this movie, if I'm being honest, right? Like the shots that you get in this movie are really, really beautiful to look at, especially when you're thinking of, you know, the 40s or whatnot. And there's also another thing that I really loved, you know, and it's not giving anything away, but there's an opening shot of an encyclopedia book being opened and how it highlighted a couple of words on the page that was shown, and one of those being the word legend was highlighted. And I feel like that almost put this emphasis on this story being almost like a myth or a legend or a fairy tale or something. And I thought it was a really cool touch and it sets this interesting tone for the film.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

100%. And listen, before this, we've gotten the mummy, we've gotten Frankenstein, we've gotten Dracula in terms of what we've reviewed on the show. And obviously, Dracula is its own bit. It's a tale that's now obviously so well known. It's it's much beloved. Frankenstein, very recognizable as well. But then even when we look at the mummy, and you think of the lore of the mummy, it's clear, but this somehow feels even easier to follow. This feels like a great put this in the theater, get the audience going. And that's what I think makes it such a classic film and so timeless, because even now the story is very well paced.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

It's really, really true. The story is well paced. I think the lore is just really intriguing. It's not too much, but it gives you just enough, right? Like it really brings you into this tale. It gives you enough of the story to follow along, but it doesn't get overly complicated. And I really think that's really great. I also think you might be surprised to find that this movie is supposed to take place in Wales, because in the script, Talbot Castle is in Wales, but somewhere along the way, someone must have just, I don't know, made the decision to leave that entire part out of the film because at times the dialogue in this movie suggests something that you might feel is different, right? Like I think there's moments where you might feel based on dialogue that this story might take place in somewhere like Germany. I think, hell, there's even some dialogue where Lon Cheney himself, as as Larry Talbot says back in California, like they're in the fucking United States or some shit. So maybe they meant Wales, Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Listen, your boy was gone for 18 years, he could have sailed a lot of seas.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, it's true. It's interesting though that some of the dialogue kind of hints like it wouldn't be in Wales, but it is theoretically supposed to take place in Wales. And I think what's also really surprising is that the original title for this movie was supposed to be Destiny, which sounds really admittedly terrible for a title for this movie. So thankfully they they changed that to the Wolfman before it released.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

I see the vision.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

I get what they're going for. But destiny is almost like something that you name a property after it's proven itself to be historic and iconic. Yeah. You're really fucking rolling the dice hard on destiny. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Yeah. Wolfman, much simpler, much catchier.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Much catchier. Destiny. So strange. Very, very strange.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Let me tell you though, Sean, I was surprised by a couple things. One, the real theme for us this month not only is like all these classics that we're watching, and I bet you're just eating the shit right up. It's pentagrams. Because we had naked man butt from the ritual and and with Nock and Nosferatu in the 2024 remake. And now we have this guy fucking buying a cane to impress a girl, got a pentagram on it. Lots of pentagrams all over the movie.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Lots of pentagrams that look like a child drew a star.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Very true. We have a lot of pentagrams in this film, and that is like one of the thoughts that comes through my head every time I see it because they mention pentagram, pentagram, and then when they show what's supposed to be the pentagram, like it's looking more like a star.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

It's missing a few parts.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Hey, get it, a pentagram. All the lines connect it makes a star.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

But come on, guys.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

But and that's not the pentagram that I'm familiar with.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

No, not at all. Not for Sean's satanic rituals.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, come on. I'm very well versed in all things the occult, no. But you know, I think when you've watched enough horror movies, got into enough horror lore and you know, writing and heavy metal and all these bands that kind of like do all this crazy shit, right? Like, I feel like you see enough pentagrams over the course of your lifetime that uh, you know, this one not too familiar with.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Here's the other thing though. Beyond that surprise, I was really disappointed in something in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Really?

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Which is hard to say because I I really love this movie. But fuck Larry. If I've been blind the entire time I've watched this movie, it's so hard to put, but I wanted him to expire. Like, he's our main character, and I'm just like, I don't give a fuck about you. In fact, you're doing a lot of things that I find creepy and fucking pushy and annoying. And like when you get into the werewolf of it all, fantastic. But I have never experienced this visceral reaction to his character, and I don't know why it's jumping out of me now.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

I mean, I can see it for sure. Like, there is this element which we'll get into, I think, when we break it down a little bit more in the spoiler zone, but there is this element of being a little bit overbearing, a little bit forceful, a little bit pushy, you know, with some females and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Really is the 1941 Jacob Black.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I see where you're coming from. I do. The wolf likes to stalk its prey, I guess, was the message in this film.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Yeah, listen, wolves aren't that horny, guys. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, I guess not as horny as vampires.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Vampires are very horny, especially Nostorat too. Oh my god, we're not gonna be able to escape it this year. But here's the thing I guess the whole bit about creature features, and when you have man turning into a creature in particular, it's supposed to be this whole parallel or this through line of man succumbing to an animalistic nature, but also you're still a dude. Like, what the fuck are we doing, guys? Come on. It's just not something that I've ever like really taken as like a even okay, this is gonna be a side tangent here, but even looking at movies like Send Me No Flowers and Bringing a Baby, like we have the super heteronormative like dynamic with you know our leading man, our leading ladies in this era of film. 99% of the time, like, oh yeah, that's so wholesome and and cute and all this and that. But you look and read between the lines, you're like, Yeah, this was definitely made when the fucking Hayes Code existed, and the fucking like patriarchy of it all, it just oozes it.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Listen, that is how it was. It's the time that it's made. This feels like more of it though. This stands out more for me in this movie more than other movies I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

And it's it's this one fucking, it's just the one fucking guy.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah, I feel you. I mean, there is a sense of that with Dracula too, though. You know what I mean? Like there is that forcefulness with Dracula too, but I think the difference is maybe it's just accepted differently because there's this connection, this life eternal longing for this, you know, lover. Whereas this is just like, oh, I happen to just stumble upon this person that I can't, I'm infatuated, and now I'm just gonna go take what I won't.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

It's the take what I want. It's the dog lifting its leg to piss on something and mark its territory. Is it thematically appropriate? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Although it wasn't like the easiest road, like the dude did get turned down at one point, you know. He became almost a last resort at one point.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

The dude kept getting turned down.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

So you know, we the dude never got turned up.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

He got turned up, but I don't know, you know. Stuff to say.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

I'm just saying, listen and respect boundaries. Sure. That's all I'm saying. And I think it goes right back down to this movie in the 1940s. It was true then, it's true now.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

It's true. The other thing that I think is really interesting with this movie, and I guess you know, lump in all the movies that it it kind of ties into, but it's always really surprising how much stuff that they reuse across multiple films back in this era, right? You you can really start to notice as you watch a lot of these films that you know, from soundtracks to background scenery and stage props, like a lot of stuff is kind of reused in multiple movies, and especially with these horror movies and things, I think it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah, like the backgrounds, you know, the ones that spin, so that all you have to do is sit in a car that's moving vertically and it creates the illusion of driving. That shit, I'm sure, was reused.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, just crazy to think about like how many things do get reused. I think that's wild. But I I will say, aside from all of that, aside from the horiness of werewolves and vampires and all that stuff, I definitely don't see anyone, at least in this generation, getting scared in a movie like this now. I think you can really appreciate the look of it, right? I think there's some really cool monster effects even now watching it. I don't think you're gonna be really scared. Maybe back in 1941 with scenes and their atmospheric setting, right? The cool transformation scenes we get and the fact that we get a dude turning into this violent wolfman creature and killing people, is probably fairly new at the time and I'm pretty sure shocking.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yeah, yeah. That was something that especially I think the brutality of some of these kills, I get it. And again, I say brutality, it's 1941 brutality. This is no terrifier three, okay? It's the idea, it's the premise of it. However, this movie, although not scary at all, not terrifying at all, nor would anyone in modern day find it that way. What's incredible is that it does build that atmosphere that you mentioned earlier, Sean. It builds that tension and it creates a sense of dread. Even though it's not as palpable for us in 2025, it's still clear that it was present. And you know it's present because a lot of this inspires movies to this day and other media to this day. And I'm thinking about, and especially, oh my gosh, the woods. I could not stop thinking about the game The Quarry. Have you gotten to play it?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Listen, if you like to make decisions in a game and then have like a spidering effect of one decision here and it affects you like three scenes later.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

That game is absolutely fucking incredible. And it it feels very wolf.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

At least to me in retrospect. I I finished it and then I'm replaying it now with Allie. Fucking love that game.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Sounds fun.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Listen, for this being, I think, the second crack in a werewolf movie, I think you get some credit there.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. I mean, you're not wrong.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

It's a pioneer.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah, you're not wrong. I feel like to your point, it's not the first werewolf movie to be made, right? We actually, I think even 1913 there's a short film called The Werewolf, but I think it's lost. Like it's like one of those films that is so old and nobody like it was just it's just gone. Like, I don't know if there's a copy somewhere floating around, but it has been documented, but it's just not available. So it's just uh it's there because somebody wrote it and said, Yep, we definitely had this short film called The Werewolf in 1913, but nobody now has seen it, and nobody and it's it's not a thing you can find.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah, you saying that really just threw me back to young Frankenstein. Werewolf, theirwolf, their castle.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I mean, uh that aside, of course, to what you're talking about, we have Werewolf of London in 1935, which is actually Universals to your point. First crack at a werewolf movie, which a lot of people may not know about. I think that is really interesting. It was commercially less successful than this movie was, but what this movie does have going for it is that it established some important characteristics that, to your point, went on to define future werewolf movies. Like that's where the credit has to be respected, right? You just have to give it some kind of recognition for the influence that it had. I think things like the idea of Silver being able to kill a werewolf or the idea that werewolves are repulsed by Wolf Spain, right? Those two things right there, this movie is responsible for. And I think it's the lore, and more importantly, the lore building, and everything's just got to start somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

So for sure. There is so much to respect here, and I think what I respect most of all is the way this movie chooses to end. Because damn, it it's one of those that almost in the way that Dracula felt, it can feel very sudden. It's like we've been building up for something, and then the climax or the third act feels very abbreviated. Yeah. But on paper, when you look at like the outcome of this movie, damn, that's a lot of nerve. And you can see how, again, not scary to a 2025 audience, but this must have been horrific. Even if not scary, it must have been a gut punch for people in 1941.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

I'm sure it was, really, honestly. I do think to your point, right? Like we get a lot of these classic horror films and the endings kind of feel almost the same way in the sense of like how you're left feeling. Like it almost feels sudden or abrupt the way the movie ends. You feel like maybe you just weren't ready for it to end in that way, or you weren't ready for it to end yet. And I think you know, if you had to critique anything, I I enjoy the ending, but maybe where we differ is I think that's maybe one of the only areas where the film suffers a bit because I just feel like if we could just you know extend the movie maybe 10 minutes, you know what I mean, and really kind of draw out the ending a little bit would be fantastic. But overall, I feel like it aligns with the typical tragic themes we often see in these classic horror films. So what do you expect?

SPEAKER_02 19:42

You know what? I would say, Sean, give me no additional runtime, but remove 10 minutes of this man fawning over a woman that he was stalking and give you more of him as like a werewolf, then absolutely yeah, I'd agree with that. Let's use the time better.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

If we could get more of the werewolf for sure, we need more of that at the end. Save it all for the end and just give it to us. And I think that would be great, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Well, despite that blemish, I can't wait to see how our ratings

The Gore Score

SPEAKER_02 20:12

shake out. Now, before we actually score this film, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, well, you know, much like most of these older horror films, we don't really see any blood. So, I mean, especially anything predating the 50s and the 60s before the standard began to loosen a little bit, and we got movies like Psycho with the chocolate syrup, fake blood in the shower scene and all that. So, needless to say, this one is getting really like a N-E for non-existent in terms

The Animal Report

SPEAKER_00 20:42

of gore.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

What about the animal report?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

You know, this is an interesting one because I would like to think that PETA would be here for even the werewolves because they are part animal, and I think you gotta protect them. So there is some harm on the werewolf, and you know, even though they don't show it, we do have a dog in this movie, and so beware that if you have a really good imagination and can really imagine in your head what's happening in some of these scenes, it might not be the best for you.

Scoring

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings. Then the wolfman from 1941, was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 21:18

You know, these early horror films really helped to shape the landscape of horror, both I think for the time and for the future to come. And I think the Wolfman 1941 is absolutely no exception. I think from the moment the fog rolls across the screen to the absolutely perfect and haunting set design immersing you in a very rich atmosphere for its time. I think it all helps to put you in this world that's eerily haunting, it's foreboding. I think the gothic landscapes, the moors shrouded in mist, the shadowy forest, all the way to the village streets that you get in this little town, and it all just helps to perfectly capture a memorable environment for this really truly a tragic tale. And even though Werewolf of London, 1935, which we talked about earlier, holds the distinction of being Universal's first shot at a werewolf movie, I feel like it lacked the I don't know, it lacked the cultural impact that this movie was able to achieve. And because I don't know, this movie didn't just tell a story about a werewolf, right? Like it helped redefine the legend of the werewolf and really brought it out of European folklore and into American pop culture. And I think this is one of the most it's one of the most atmospheric monster movies of its time. It's thick with dread. I think there is a touch of romantic tragedy in there as well. And I think that's what audiences really love to see in some of these movies. And I think this is a quintessential experience for any horror fan out there. I think it's a must see. I think it it has landed itself in history. You have to watch it and it isn't just a slice of cinematic history. It's a fucking slash because it delivers a howling good time.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

You know Sean, you mentioned Werewolf of London and in reality it's not about who did it first. It's about who did it best. And while there have been an incredible amount of werewolf content and media that have come after this movie, this movie put this shit on the map in a really big way. And that's significant you can't deny it. This movie still holds up today in that it is palatable. It's fun it's fun for the whole family. It's one of those that you can put on and feel even the atmosphere of Halloween although this is not expressly a Halloween film. This just feels like wholesome horror energy and it's exactly the kind of movie that can really help fill your cup. Now when we think about the the branches from this franchise I know things get messy later on the way that's why I haven't watched all any of them. And yeah it has a main character who I cannot fucking stand. But this movie is incredible in spite of that. This movie is incredible for what it does with its practical effects. The standard setting practical effects by the way and the makeup transformation. The Wolfman walked so that American Werewolf in London could run and look excruciatingly painful. When you think about the line that is drawn in monster transformations and the incredible effects work we've seen in modern day this is such an incredible early representation of that. So this cannot be anything but a slash and with that the wolf man from 1941 has earned a universal slash. Now we have a lot to discuss when we get back from our break but if you've seen this before please let us know what you would rate it. We can find the links to that conversation in our discord server over in our show notes. And if you haven't seen it yet you can follow the link in our show notes to see where you can find this movie right now. When we return from our break we'll dive deep into the spoiler zone territory learn more about the practical effects and unpack that werewolf lore.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

We'll see you next day

A Word From Our Sponsor

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Welcome to the Antique Road Curse Gypsy Edition proudly sponsoring this episode of Hackerslash the Antique Road Curse is the only traveling appraisal show where the treasures are priceless and the curses are unavoidable. Run by the finest Romani experts in the art of the arcane Antique Road Curse specializes in uncovering the dark histories of your family heirlooms. Is your silver wolf's head cane just a walking aid or does it carry the weight of a century old curse? Is that shimmering medallion from Grandma a timeless keepsake or a one-way ticket to a full moon fright night? We're here to give you answers, along with a free charm to ward off evil. Our roaming caravan of appraisers brings centuries of wisdom, folklore, and an uncanny knack for spotting objects with a bite. With each appraisal we'll reveal your item's true origin, its monetary value, and the exact curse that might have your ancestors howling at the moon. So bring us your most mysterious relics we want to see those tarnished lockets, those bouquets of dried wolf spane, or that creepy mirror that seems to reflect more than it should. And remember, at Antique Road Curse, the curse isn't extra it's part of the package Antique Road Curse, where the value is real, the stories are legendary and the curses are just the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

So come for the history but stay for the horror and don't forget to pack your wolf's bane just in case

Welcome to the Spoiler Zone

SPEAKER_02 27:02

welcome back folks to your now entering the spoiler zone for the wolf man from 1941 which has earned a universal slash now we have lots of impact here but before we get into the specifics of our writings

The Body Count

SPEAKER_02 27:13

let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Well we don't really get the highest of kill counts in this one which is okay we do get four deaths in the entire film and you know I'll take those four and it's not that they're even that crazy right I mean I guess we could imagine what they might have been like had we actually seen the gruesome acts that were unfolding but nonetheless we got four and we're here to talk about them so let's talk about them which one of these kills Chris had you crawl in for more Larry Talbot. Larry Talbot yeah okay so I kind of figured that was coming.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Fuck him but also just the irony of his own father killing him striking him down with his cane. I know that's the one I love that I love that so much. Granted I feel bad. Also he's a cute little wolf man at that point we don't want to see him get beat.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

But fuck Larry is it even the best kill in the movie probably not I mean there's the drama of Bella's death there's the drama of Jenny's death and the gravedigger but man it was just satisfying to see him go.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah I mean it is just the impact of getting you know beaten and bludgeoned by your own father with your own cane you know that worked against you. But you know the biggest mistake was giving away his silver charm necklace you know and he did it to protect but had he kept it might have been okay for him.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

He did it to impress.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

He did it for the nookie.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

All for the nookie.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Always but yeah so that kill definitely you know mostly we're getting a lot of the same types of kills we're just not really seeing it. So what happened to Gravedigger Richardson whatever happened to Jenny Williams essentially we know they got mauled by well respectively Bella the Werewolf Jenny Williams died by Bella the Werewolf. Bella where the hell you been local wow you know now it makes me wonder you know were were these like little subtle callbacks to this film that would have been great. But thinking of like being mauled by whether it's the werewolf you know Bella the werewolf whether it's Larry the wolf man and having your jugular severed to have your neck ripped out in that way imagine if we did get to see those kills because you gotta imagine both of those kills would be pretty gnarly.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Well think about an American werewolf in London.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah it's true.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Like that shit was brutal as fuck when you see werewolf jaws on a person's body holy shit granted the size of this man's jaw not as intense but sharp but pointy.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Very true. But I think to me what I would think outside of Larry's death Bella's death in this movie is interesting because I think that would have a really high impact for the audience especially at that time because to me it was a heavy emphasis of Larry really beating down with that cane. And even though in 1941 we're not gonna see it right they're not gonna show us this head or this body being bludgeoned to death with this silver cane on screen. We're not gonna see the gore in the blood but the fact that we got to see how many times Larry was swinging this down with some pretty good force you know what I mean you just have to imagine and at that time even myself I'm watching this and then and I'm like wow it's pretty intense man you're really going at it.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

That's what it comes down to when I was talking about that brutality not because we see it but because you can feel the spirit of it.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah it's well done if you can still kind of evoke that feeling all the way in 2025.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Mm-hmm yeah and then you know what Sean this is exactly what helps that scene stand out so much and I have another one later that's going to be my favorite

Spoiler Zone

SPEAKER_02 31:14

but I want to talk about specifically that scene where we have Bella becoming a werewolf and then killing Jenny and then Larry kills him because holy shit the set work the sound stages the set design the fog rolling in to the street when he meets her at eight yeah from their meeting all the way up until the next morning holy shit this movie A it looks phenomenal it's so well executed but even if it doesn't give a semblance of that reality it still looks so stunning.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

It really does I mean out of all the monster movies you know we have some really great scenes we have some really great set designs we have some really great looks when we think of Dr. Frankenstein's laboratory right like we've got Dracula's castle we've got all these really great places in Egypt with the mummy and all that but you really to your point have to give it up for the set design in this film because the way the woods looked with that perfectly misty fog giving this almost eerie layer to each shot I think was absolutely perfect and the trees that they used in the set design and on the stages were painted black and coated in glycerin to appear damp. So just to think of what went into how this was visually going to look at this time you got to give it up for them. And one example of what I was talking about with the movies reusing different things across multiple different movies is that opening you know in the opening credits shot of the foggy forest right when the movie starts that foggy forest was also used in other classic horror films. We saw that in the ghost of Frankenstein we saw it in Night Monster we saw it in the mummy's curse like they really took a lot of this and we've talked in the past about scores and soundtracks being reused across multiple different movies. Even Talbot Castle at least the inside was left standing and used in a lot of other movies afterwards including Ghost of Frankenstein where it was used as Dr. Frankenstein's house. So I think really cool.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

I just want to clarify for the record you saw those movies.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

I did not maybe not but now you know that you can look at the opening credits shot of that foggy forest and you can then try to find that maybe it's is something you can look for when you do you know get around to those movies and if you know at one way or another we'll get around to them here at some point like with the list we'll go on you know the universe willing we will get to them at some point.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

I was watching a historical retrospective on the Universal Classic monsters from Dracula to Frankenstein to Wolfman to creature from the Black Lagoon. Man even just hearing about the way some of these characters do or do not return later in the franchise to hear about the difference in like talent that was being put in Frankenstein's costume and his makeup oof it seemed very hit or miss.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Yeah definitely it's really interesting and I think it's also interesting just the dynamic of these universal monster movies and you know how much of these monsters were interchanged especially with the actors right like you really got a little hodgepodge of this kind of almost tight knit group of actors that were just kind of playing all kinds of different characters. Obviously you know when we think of like Dracula and the monster from Frankenstein and all that like the mummy and even creature we see all of these actors that initially play them and they really set the bar but then at some point along the way they kind of just flip-flopped around a little bit you know what it's like it's like the cinematic equivalent of getting backstreet boys in sync and 98 degrees to all swap their members.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Imagine yeah most of the members are the same but like one lead is different like it'd be fucking Nick Lachey instead of Justin Timberlake. Oh my god what a weird time that would be yeah it'd fucking be bizarre that's crazy what wasn't bizarre though was that werewolf transformation so good hey listen the amount of time that it took I think I believe it was like around six hours a day just to get into that makeup holy shit I'm so glad we didn't get the complete like reveal of it and it was built up like how are they going to pull that off in 1941 but I really love the gradual reveal of the transformation. I absolutely loved how they focused only on the feet you can see the changes in the feet there's progressively more and more hair yeah and then later we get the whole body but I have two things here a Larry's looking really incredulous at his legs is drawing a lot of hair and I'm like bro I know so many men who would look at their leg and think that's normal for them. Like that's disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah there's some hairy legs out there.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Yeah it's fucking disgusting you can wear make a werewolf man uh movie with any fucking man walking down the street down here. But the other side of this is why does Larry look better as a wolf than he does as a man.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

You know you're not wrong. He kind of does look better as the wolf man. I don't want to make too much fun of the dude but the wolf man he even looked a little more fit you know he was feeling a little nice like he was well groomed you know he looked pretty well groomed there was a certain charm to this wolf man. Yeah yeah the nice puppy eyes he did have the puppy eyes you gotta like I don't know it was nice for sure it is a great scene and you got you gotta give it up for what they were able to do with the visual effects for the time and and seeing some of that transformation. There's so many good little moments in this movie. Well let me start with Bella Legosi right because such a small part and I think the scene where they meet Bella Legosi playing the role of a gypsy fortune teller named Bella so Bella playing Bella I think is hilarious. I love the dramatic palm reading the pentagrams we were talking about and the way the horses react to his transformation into the werewolf I think was a great touch and everything about that whole scene he only got maybe six minutes or less of screen time. That few minutes that we got with Bell Legosi really was just a great part of the movie and it was super memorable. And I wish we got more but we didn't and that's what we got but one of the better scenes I think in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Oh 100% that man steals the show which is a shame that he got beaten down by Larry Dalbuck I know so viciously I do want to talk about that old graveyard scene.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

It's specifically when they're carrying the coffin to the church or whatever the place was and I really wish they went with what was originally in the script because okay so I had to talk about now you know I had to talk about the scene with Bella first because I can't like continue this trend of talking about favorite scenes that weren't actually in the movies.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Yep thank you so much you really checked the box there.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah so I just wanted to be you know I have a favorite scene we'll check that off the list and now I'm gonna talk about what I really wanted to see.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Fan fiction was Sean.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Yeah so okay originally in the script in that scene and tell me if this is not fucking incredible and maybe they couldn't pull it off I don't know why but okay so it's not that they are carrying the coffin into the church but the coffin gets into the fucking church but originally in the script from what I read it would have had Larry Talbot opening this little sliding square for whatever reason like this almost like tiny little window on the coffin right to reveal Bella's dead face looking at him with his eyes wide open right but then the camera is actually showing you Larry looking down at Bella so you're in Bella's point of view almost showing you that he might still be alive somehow but it's just like this really cool thing that was originally supposed to happen it just didn't happen and I was like what a great shot that would have been it would have been so good to end that whole scene that happened because it was a great scene but that would have been perfect.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

It really would have been I fucking love it. But okay yeah see I'm a hoe for a POV shot like give me give me another person's perspective give me a good frame especially if you're looking at like a little like I'm thinking about those doors where it's like to some underground layer or a bar and then it's like you just slide it open and ask for the password.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

But that's what it feels like and if we could just get like a shot through that and that rotate rectangular frame against Larry's face looking in I would love that.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

It would be cool. I mean shit even if he did you know take a little gander and we didn't see anything that was inside at all and we just saw you know just his face and maybe he got he had like a horrific expression or something like that would have been impactful too. I just think there was you know if there was an idea to have a little bit more in that instance and I think they maybe should have gone with it on that one and I think it would have been really phenomenal but you know who am I?

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Okay I guess my problem Sean is that this motherfucker took too many ganders in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Took a lot of ganders. In the ganders he was gandering yeah I'm guessing one of your least favorite scenes was probably when we were using a space telescope to spy on the girl next door.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Let's roll the tape back. Rear window is a great movie when Jimmy Stewart does it it's fun and hilarious because he's a photographer and he's looking at literally fucking anybody.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

This motherfucker he spies on a woman dressing he then goes to her describes her earrings in great detail then tells her where she put them and where she has them and then tries to be psychic no fuck you that is terrible. So it shows that he didn't just like land on her for a second went back because she's pretty then go on about his day I'm gonna try to meet this woman.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

No he sat there and watched her he watched where she puts the earrings he stared hard enough and long enough to know exactly what the spangles like what the fuck yeah no I I cannot fucking stand this guy. It is the fucking telescope of it all it is the fucking stealing a kiss later on it's the she continues to say no but he continues to push yes it fucking drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

She wasn't giving him a whole lot of yes no yeses really a whole lot of no's is what he was getting not a yes to be found. Yeah he got turned down he's a very persistent dude I guess and he didn't want to take no for an answer but yeah I am with you in that regard because I remember him bringing that up and me being like you know that just doesn't sound great man. It sounds super creepy. You're kind of giving yourself up for being a a creeper, you know and maybe that would have been left unsaid you know and maybe you could have just tried to make it seem happenstance that you just walked into the shop but you kind of just dug yourself in a hole on that one.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah but it's also the fact that this movie frames it as romantic.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

They do really try to make it very cutesy in a way and maybe you know to your point it is a reflection of the times and this probably actually was seen as very cutesy at that time and nowadays it's feeling a little bit rapey.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Cutesy from who? It's cutesy from men.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

That's what I mean it was a male dominated time at the 1940s.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah exactly like oh yeah the the ladies will love this it's so romantic.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah this sounds great this is what I like to see.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Get out of here because here's the other thing oh okay I could fucking go on about this guy forever. I simply refuse to believe this motherfucker is pure of heart. You don't spy on women through a telescope if you're a pure heart. You don't go across to their fucking place of business describe in detail what they were wearing and where they put it then say you're psychic if you're pure of heart.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

You know the only thing that made me think that this dude could have been pure of heart in any way was the fact that he was just smiling the entire time from the moment we see him in the car. He's a himbo just always got this kind of little happy go lucky grin on his face like he couldn't be happier to be wherever the hell he is you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 43:55

That's what they call golden retriever energy. That that man doesn't have two brain cells right Fucking rubbing together up there.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

That must be why he doesn't know the fucking meaning of no. Well, he just continued to pursue her as if she was his.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

It's interesting though that we also get more Lon Cheney as the wolf man than we do any other, you know, actor in Universal Monster movies, you know, trying to play whatever iconic monster they first depicted, right? So like Lon Cheney kind of struck a nice little streak with the wolfman.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

He really did. And should he have? He did this role really well. What I mean to say is this is such an early example of you think the killer's gone, but bad, you didn't double tap, bitch.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

You know, I hate to say it, but there is also a little drama surrounding this movie that's not gonna paint a great picture for you with Lon Cheney.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Please tell me.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

You're already not into the character. You might also not really be into Lon Cheney after this one. It's not that bad, but apparently there was actually beef between Lon Cheney and Evelyn Anchors, who plays Gwen. Apparently, Anchors was given her own dressing room or trailer during the movie because of how impressed the director was with her, something like that. And this beef started because Lon Cheney got super upset about it, like super pissed off because essentially he said that that was supposed to be his trailer, and she like basic basically like took it from him. So he was actually said to have approached her and said that she stole it from not only him but from Broderick Crawford. It sounds weird, but apparently she later found out that they used to like go into the trailer, the two of these dudes, and get super wasted together and then like shuffle all the furniture aside and like literally beat the crap out of each other. Like that was their pastime, and so they were upset that they weren't gonna be able to do that. And so, like, think about that weird drama, weird beef. So it's not like he did anything really bad to her, but the fact that they got so upset that she got a dressing room for like regular purposes, whereas they're just like, I just want to go in there and like beat the crap. You could do that in the back alley, you know what I mean? Why do you gotta be in the dressing room for that?

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Thank you, Sean. Thank you for not letting me waste my breath on this. Listen, was he great as the Wolfman? Yes, but clearly I am uninterested in this man.

unknown 46:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Not beefing with a star and not the director who gave away the trailer. That's what it is for me.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

I know. Even Evelyn Anchor's husband apparently got into a fight with Lon Cheney on the set of Son of Dracula during a luncheon over some crap that he was given because they had this tiff, but the weird thing is these two didn't like each other, right? Obviously, Evelyn Anchors and Lon Cheney, all this bullshit, all this drama over the course of however long they came across each other, they didn't like each other, but it must have been absolutely terrible because they also did a lot of movies together. Like it wasn't like they just had a one-off or two films. They they did a handful of films together, so it must have been like absolute hell for them to constantly be forced to work together.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

Yeah, you have that one work nemesis that you fucking hate to see, and then all of a sudden you're working the same fucking hours as them. Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's absolutely terrible.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

And I want to just fucking throw this back again a few B sides ago when Binks was all like, oh, they're having a great reunion up in heaven, the because the cast is all dead. And I was like, damn, imagine dying and spending the fucking afterlife with your co-workers. Imagine these two spending their life together as co-workers, like their afterlife hugging.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

You can't escape me even in the afterlife.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Yeah, I bet I bet he's fucking over wherever you believe he is, stealing a trailer from her yet again.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Yeah. I gotta say, Maria, who plays Maleva in this film, was absolutely great. Like that was a great supporting role, I feel like, because her being like the traveling gypsy, whatever, that just had all the lore and was very close to even Bella as the werewolf. I think she added like a really great touch to this film. So the the role she played as a character, I can't, I think, cannot go unnoticed either.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

100%. She was the foundation upon which this whole thing was built. She gave it some character and she made it interesting. Her and Bella tag team loved him.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

I know. I wish we got more of the both of them, more Bella, more of her. It was really great. We also had Claude Rains, right, who plays Sir John Talbot in this film, The Father, Larry's Father. And Claude Rains, very well-renowned actor, who actually launched his career with another Universal classic, The Invisible Man.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Sean, I have a bone to pick here.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

I actually need to look up the years here. I need to see the years between when he was born and when his fucking son was born. Because and we'll get to worst part in a bit, but I am gonna say it now because I'm fucking mad about it. These two men look too close in age to believably be father and son. It's just too much. Larry does not look young.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

He doesn't look super young for whatever age they're trying to depict. He definitely looks like he's in his like at least mid-30s, maybe late thirties.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Mint to late 30s is fine, but his dad needs to be older.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Well, no, yes. The cer yeah, John Talbot or whatever definitely looks like maybe just chilling in his fifties. You know what I mean? Like, here's one lighter note, I think we can talk about it it involves Lon Cheney, obviously, so this would be a lighter note of conversation for Lon Cheney, but I also want to talk about Moose, and Moose is the dog that's played as the werewolf in this movie because apparently there's this relationship between the two, and I guess they were trying to find the right dog for the role, and Lon Cheney suggested using the police dog named Moose, and they agreed. And I guess during the attack scene, Moose broke a bone in Lon Cheney's hand when he like chomped down on his hand and like it like seriously injured him. But I guess Lon Cheney, despite all of that, somehow said it was love at first sight and ended up buying the dog later on and keeping it and having a great relationship with this dog.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Okay, you said that this dog broke a bone in his hand, and I thought, good, keep your hands to yourself, Lon Cheney.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Oh my gosh. But you know, I just think that's interesting. That's great. Yeah, the dog retires from being a police dog and finds a nice home with Lon Chaney and happily ever after, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Second life as an actor, absolutely, yeah, not bad.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

You know what I just thought of though? If Maleva had a silver charm, right, that broke the spell for Larry, she gives him the silver charm. Why didn't she give one to Bella?

SPEAKER_02 51:24

You know, privilege.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

I also want to know why there was a difference between Bella turning into the werewolf and being full on wolf, you would say, and Larry turning into the wolf man and being much more on the man side.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

I think it's like puberty, you know. He's just figuring out he's like a wolf pup.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

You think you gotta age into it?

SPEAKER_02 51:47

You gotta fucking level up. Okay, tap into some powers, you gotta earn your street cred. Alright. Kind of like the werewolf pack in the Sims. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

I guess these are just things that I think of.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

Yeah, you know what I thought of? I thought of the fact that his tracks aren't wolf tracks, and then they showed them and told us that they're wolf tracks, but he clearly has big ass feet. Granted, probably still like the pads under his feet, maybe wolf-like, but they were gigantic. That doesn't make fucking sense at all, guys. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

I always think it's interesting that the original idea for this movie was to make the idea of Larry Talbot turning into the wolfman up to your imagination. I'm glad that we got the visual effects that we got and we were able to see the transformation and get to see the awesome makeup work and everything to really experience the visual of the wolfman. Now we have this iconic image of the wolfman, but originally the plan was to only show the wolfman one time briefly when Larry sees his reflection in the water, but they decided to go with a more solidified idea that he did indeed turn into a werewolf and not just this kind of psychological play, which I think that was the direction that the remake with Benicio del Toro and Anthony Hopkins went in. I think it was a more of a on the psychological end of things, even though you got to see a lot of really great visuals. Aside all of that, I feel like the worst part of this movie for me is that they make Bella Legosi transform into the dog instead of a wolfman, because I would have liked to see Bella also in Bella's version of a wolfman. But then I guess would that take away from the impact of Lon Cheney as the wolfman? Maybe there was a thought process that went into that. I just feel like I didn't want the distinction between the two. So if I'm really going to pick a worse part of this movie, if I really have to, I guess it's it just didn't sit right with me that they both had different forms. And maybe it's because Bella, to your point, is much older, more established. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 53:47

I agree with you. I would have wanted to see more from Bella. I think he absolutely would have made this movie better. I still think it's wild that he got as much runway as he did with Universal Monsters and finding a way to really poke himself into so many of these movies. But honestly, I just cannot get over the father and son dynamic. Not only the age, because I talked about that, but when Larry returns back, he's like, I know I've been gone a long time. Sorry about John. What the fuck? They seem so properly healed.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

It is true. That whole dynamic was weird. You didn't get the feeling like they were rekindling anything or rehashing anything, or even that they had any disagreements. That's part of what I'm saying. Larry just stroll into this movie smiling like he's having the time of his life, not going back home to having to deal with a father that he didn't have a great relationship with.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Larry don't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

But all of a sudden, they're best buds looking at telescopes together.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Yep. And then one of them's gonna beat the other one to death by the end of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Originally, he wasn't even supposed to be, there wasn't the relationship of father's son. So that's another thing that they changed. Originally, 100% they weren't related, but I think originally Larry's character was supposed to be just someone that was coming to install the lens in the telescope, and so it just kind of went off from there. But I don't know, that would have been interesting too.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Yeah, I mean, I listen, I think this movie was filled with a lot of potential. Yeah. I think there's so much that we probably couldn't have even gotten to really cover in its entirety tonight. I can't wait to personally see what happens with Wolfman. I remember the terrible, terrible things that were being said about a Wolfman that appeared at Halloween Horror Nights and then he got bullied out of the whole event. But I absolutely gonna be re-watching this movie. I can't believe it's been this long since I re-watched it. I'm gonna make sure I do it much more frequently now.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah, you know, the special thing about these movies is that they're not very long, right? Like you can put on one of these Universal Monster movies and it's like 70 minutes, sometimes maybe 75, 80 minutes. Like they're very quick movies, so you can definitely get through one or two of these pretty easily. And I think this movie definitely has a lot of rewatch value. I think it's one that I find myself watching once or twice a year, almost every year. I I like the visual look of this movie. I I think, you know, I myself feel like I got a little bit more out of it. I always feel like I end the movie wanting just a little bit more of the Wolfman, and and maybe I get into this tiff where I just start looking for Wolfman movies and things like that. To your point, Chris, I'm also with you. I really want to see what they do with this new Wolfman movie. I hope it's good. Don't know what to expect from the trailer. The one trailer that I've seen, it could be hit or miss at this point, so we're gonna find out at some point. But I hope that it's good.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

Well, I

Toodles

SPEAKER_02 56:40

hope it's good too, but at least we both know that the Wolfman from 1941 is good because it's our new Universal Slash. Now, listen, we certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here about this movie by any means.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yeah, if you want to join the pack and bark at the moon with us, consider supporting the show. You can visit patreon.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, movie nominations, and live shows. Also, if you've enjoyed wallowing in the blooms of the Wolfsbane under a bright autumn moon with us, leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcast. That helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there. As if dead men didn't have all eternity.