247: A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master (1988)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hellhound, piss flames, urinary tract infection. Let's go. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. You can check in, but you can't check out. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer. Unintended.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac. Hola, Muchachos. The classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

Look, I don't spend hours working out to let some night stalker beat me.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

And a special guest and longtime patron, Zach.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Fuck an A.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

This week we're looking at another entry to an iconic slasher franchise. Before we get down to business though, we'd love for you to get to know Zach a bit better. Zach, thank you so much for being here. We're stoked for this to finally happen. I know this is something that uh you've been expressing interest in for a really long time now, and obviously you go super way back to us, back to your early college days. But we'd love to start by knowing what is your personal connection to the horror genre and how deep does your love of horror run.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

I remember one of the one of the first movie memories that I've ever had was Scream 3, that opening scene when the Hollywood sign is lit up and everything, and then I remember being scared of tanning beds from I Still Know What You Did Last Summer whenever Julie James gets zip tied into one. It goes very, very far in. I am in love with horror movies. As I've told uh Chris, like I get into horror movies so much that I listen to the commentaries in the movies just because I get tired of watching it over and over again because I want to know more. I want to get more in depth with it. Like I've become a very, a very big fan of them, and it's just always been something that I've loved and just can't wait for the next horror movie to come out in theaters, and it's just always been something that's been a passion of mine.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

So we all have our different types of passions, right? Like so Chris is obviously a huge fan of slashers, and Sean loves the classics, and I am a fan of sci-fi in all its forms. Uh what style of horror do you prefer? Slashers.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

Like slashers in general are my go-to. I love them, they're always a good time. And specifically, my favorite sub-genre, I guess, in slashers is meta slashers. And there's only one that's a big one for it, and that is definitely Scream, which is my favorite series.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Listen, there's Scream, but there's also Wes Craven's New Nightmare.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

I can't ignore that. Yeah. That's that's typically the horror horror I like, but I love different genres as well. Like I always am interested in uh sci-fi pics, and obviously you can't ignore the classics and see what uh what horror movies call back to. I mean, you can't just ignore any of them. You have to make sure to get a variety of it. So I'm very open-minded to different genres that I may not have been exposed to, but I definitely love my slasher roots.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Everything is richer with context.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yeah, definitely. Uh, and so I know you kind of alluded to your favorite franchise, but what is your favorite horror movie of all time? We all want to know.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

Y'all are putting me on the spot, but my favorite horror movie of all time has got to be Scream 2. I love it to death. It is better than the first one, in my opinion. It topped everything and more. It's just it's something that I always put in and I always just love like the steel uh steel book that just came out. I was I pre-ordered it whenever we were able to pre-order them, but Scream 2 is always my go-to. If I need something to watch while I while I'm working, I just pop it on my phone and just play it, and I just know I'll always have a good time with it.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

I mean, you can't get more meta than having a sequel, right? Like if you're gonna make meta horror, you gotta have a sequel.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Of course. And then define the rules of the sequel, which is absolutely absurd. I remember Scream 2 doing pretty well what on our show. I think the majority of us loved it, but Paris did famously hack it. So we have to know for you, how do you personally define a hack in a slash?

SPEAKER_04 4:35

For me, a hack would just have to be if I have a very hard time finishing it, and it takes a lot for me to just pause a movie, walk away, and just take it in for a second and just like I have to power through. I at least have to know how it ends. Because if you got me hooked in in the middle, I gotta keep on going back and make sure that I'm I don't miss anything. But a hack for me is just something that it's I can't finish it. If I can't finish something, then that's just a lot for me. If I cringe so much, which it's something hard for me to do, but that's a hack for me. Whereas a slash, it has to be a rewatchable, it has to still hold up on at least I give things five rewatches. If after five re-watches and I still feel the same way as I did the first, then it's for sure like slash.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Okay, no, that's completely fair because when I think about it, there are plenty of movies that I would like the first time, maybe enjoy the second time, but it still wouldn't hold up for me after five. So that feels like a good, like certified slash for Zach. If it's it holds up to five rewatches and it's still you're still having fun with it. So I think that's a great take.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Yes, for sure. And mind you, it takes a lot for me to hack something. I mean, I do have strong opinions. In my opinion, if you're a fan of a movie, you have to make sure to see its flaws. You gotta love it for all of its flaws. Exactly. But e and you have to be like, they could have done that better, or they could have done this better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

The type of love only a mother could have, yes. Well, Zach, I'm so stoked that you're finally here with us and and to, you know, no less, unpack one of your favorite movies of all time. Now, I'm really excited about this, particularly because it was the next one coming up in the lineup for this, but really to hear your perspective on and and and consider why this movie was such a big deal for you, especially since you actually nominated and used your patron vote and nomination for its predecessor, the third entry in this franchise. When last we visited this franchise, we watched a 1987 film that bid farewell to a legendary Final Girl and saw the franchise torch pass to Patricia Arquette and a band of fellow survivors. Now, our film this week takes us one year out from the events we last saw and explores how Arquette's character, Kristen, is coping in the aftermath of vanquishing a man who hunted her friends in their dreams. This time, though, he's back to terrorize the Dream Warriors once again, only this time he'll have to contend with a new enemy. This week, we're talking about a nightmare on Elm Street 4, the Dream Master. Zach, why is this one of your favorites?

SPEAKER_04 7:22

I love Dream Warriors, don't get me wrong. I can't ignore it. I it's a total slash, and it does everything what a nightmare on Elm Street movie should do. And I did use my patron nomination for it. But this movie is a guilty pleasure of mine, let me tell you. I got this the Nightmare on Elm Street box set for Christmas, and this was the first horror movie collection that I fully had. And for some reason, I love Dream Warriors. Dream Warriors was good, but I always wanted to put in the Dream Master. I always wanted to play it, I always wanted to watch it over again because y'all, this is a good time. This is a great movie. It does have its flaws, and I am not going to ignore how they treated some characters in this movie. It's not scary, but it is very creepy at times, which I do appreciate. That's just many of the reasons why this movie is one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Okay, well, I'm I'm excited to hear the passion coming from you. Obviously, you have like a laundry list of reasons why this movie is so phenomenal for you, and I'm sure we're gonna unpack even more of that later. But for now, Sean Mack, have either of you seen this one before?

SPEAKER_03 8:33

So I've definitely seen this one before, but it has been so long that I didn't really remember any of it, to be honest with you. I mean, I remember talking to you, Chris. I realized going into this one that it takes place right after the third installment, so I actually decided to watch the third one and the fourth one back to back, just so I can just be caught up on the whole storyline. I have watched the original Nightmare in Elm Street many, many times. In fact, I I do own that one. That's a true classic, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

That's a real pro move there, Sean. Watching back to back.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

You know, I had plans for something like that. Uh I watched, I watched, I watched part three, and I was like, okay, I'm I'm going on a work trip. I'm gonna watch part four the next day on my work trip. So not quite back to back, but close to it. And I'm on this work trip, lo and behold, I got really sick on that work trip. And so I didn't actually get a chance to finish it, but I made it like, I don't know, like 30, 35 minutes through the film. And then I think we we had like a rescheduling or something happened, but I was just like, okay, I have a little more time. I'm gonna go to bed now, and I'm not gonna worry about trying to squeeze this movie in and stay up. So I fell asleep and I woke up the next day thinking, okay, I'll I'll watch it soon. I have some time uh to watch it again. So when we hit Planet this time, and this this is my first real time ever seeing this all the way through. Um, I'm watching it going, did I finish this? Like I feel like I made it kind of through this, and then we hit again 30, 35 minutes in, and I realized, oh crap, this is where I don't remember anything. So no, this was this was my first real time actually seeing this film all the way through in one go.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, so similarly to Sean, I saw this before. I know I've seen it a couple times, but I couldn't really remember a damn thing about it. I think I text Sean about having really vague memories and understandings of what it was. There's some key moments, some key kills. And I would say, honestly, not even the most important deaths in this movie are the ones that I remember, but they're like imprinted and branded on my brain. And so coming into it this time and thinking about okay, if this is like a fairly clean slate to me, I do remember having the distinct feeling that this is when shit starts getting real weird. So it's not the point in the franchise where it completely falls apart by any means, but it is not the same quality as one, yes, two, and three. It feels like a different film. And so coming into this, I really expected to maybe be surprised and enjoy it more than I than I you had anticipated, having had this memory attached to it. But I can tell you that's the the bar wasn't super high. But Mac, for this being your first time ever seeing it in its completion, what were you expecting?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Well, honestly, I just expected classic Freddy Krueger goodness. You know, I I figured yeah, it's it's 88, it's pretty close to the last one. So tonely, maybe we're gonna be somewhere around like the same vibe and um kill style, maybe we're getting better with each movie because you know, we know more about like what sells and what kind of stuff we can get away with on screen. So I I kind of just thought I'm gonna get more Freddy Krueger, I'm gonna get more kills, a variety of kills, different types of kills this time. Um, and honestly, I think anytime you go into a Nightmare on Elm Street film, you should think Freddie's gonna have fun. That's kind of what I was expecting.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah, 100%. Uh the only real expectation that I have going into a Nightmare in Elm Street film is that I'm in it for a good time, not a long time, right? Like I think every installment of this franchise is about an hour and a half, right? Um, I'm gonna hear some hilarious one-liners, I'm gonna see some creative kills. That's really the expectation I have going into this franchise, because I do I do clearly remember the franchise progressing into like more um campy comical horror and stuff like that, kind of departing from that seriousness from the first one.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Like Chris was saying, there is a different vibe in this movie. It's a vibe that I like, but there is a different vibe. You can definitely tell, and the way I sort of describe it is it's a weird coming-of-age film, and I like it.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Even when you frame it up like that, right? We think about coming of age, and really a lot of the movies in this franchise are a coming-of-age story for somebody. And and sometimes it just feels like pure adolescence. Not necessarily in its characters, though. Because when I think about the first movie and how that felt, and how the practical effects in that movie really just set the fucking bar for a good 80s slasher. When I was watching this one, I felt pretty bored anytime Freddie wasn't on screen, which really surprised me. Like obviously, Robert England has like this charm, right? So Freddie is Freddie, you know Freddie's gonna have fun, you know Freddie's gonna say some hilarious stuff, some vulgar stuff, but I didn't expect to feel so eh about a lot of the characters in this movie, which, you know, a little disappointing, a little surprising, sure, but I think when I look at this, I felt like this movie was Freddy's time to shine, but we didn't give him enough time to fully shine. He took advantage of every moment he got. I wish we had given him more moments.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

I was kind of surprised, not by anything that like happens in the film, but what I realized while watching this, which was I think there's a clear direction that the series is taking that like this isn't quite meta yet, but there's some moments that I thought were clearly very meta and clearly like campy in making fun of or having fun with the genre. You know, I mean the logistics of this film perplex me a little bit. There's like a bunch of teens dying randomly, and nobody seems to think it's strange, right? But then it's like, yeah, but that's what happens in a lot of horror films, and like it's just never talked about ever. The police ignore everybody, you know, it's just not oh yeah, 10 teens dead, whatever. So I don't know. There's just like this this feeling while watching this where I realized like from here to a new nightmare, it's I think a pretty clear progression of like you can kind of feel where things are going.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Yeah, 100%. I mean, just that point alone with all these kids dying, right? Like, these parents really need to own up to their shit. Like, that's the feeling that I got watching this movie. I mean, come on, like all these kids dying in a matter of days, weeks, and like year after fucking year. Like, what is going on with this town, right? Somebody's gotta own up to this. But here's the thing, right? To me, the feeling that was kind of solidified for me, uh, that kind of like the thought process that I had I was watching as I was watching this movie was this franchise to me is is like part of the big four of slashers. There's a big four of thrash metal that really pioneered the subgenre of heavy metal, and I believe that a nightmare in Elm Street deserves its spot in the big four of slashers, along with Halloween, Friday the 13th, and Chucky, all of which to me really solidified the slasher subgenre of horror.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

See, Freddy is the star in this film, and the way I see or the way that I label Freddie in this film is MTV Freddy. This is when he MTV was at the peak and of culture and everyone was watching it. It was, you know, whenever people say, bring back music to MTV, this is that's whatever music was the big thing in MTV. And Freddie was the height like of its time. Like it they just came off uh Dream Warriors, and it was so successful. But when you look at the box office of this movie, this is the highest box office that a night round Elm Street movie has had.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Hey, you gotta love those 80 retro teenage MTV vibes in the film, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Man, when I think about MTV, you think about TRL, and you just think about like all the trash that was at MTV back in the day, and now I'm just like mentally stuck in the early 90s. You know, yes, Freddie is the star of the show, absolutely, but when I think I but what I think I'm I'm most surprised about is even though we had moments where in the first and second, really even in the third, he was more off-screen and kind of lurking and and he had his presence, but for some reason the power of that presence felt more intense for me then because he felt a little less silly. He was goofy, he was having a great time in in Dream Warriors, but then in you know, he's notably of like a darker tone to his voice and his dialogue in the second one. And so for this, I think it was just a weird juxtaposition of the characters giving absolutely nothing and then Freddy giving so much to compensate. Like that's what it really, really felt like. And when I think about just even the disparity there, like the delta between those two camps, I also think about the disparity in the graphics and the effects because this movie is grotesque. There are so many practical effects in here that are just killer, but somehow it's disappointing because it still doesn't feel as simple and clean and good as the first Annight on the street. You know, my heart's torn there because there are some moments in this movie where I'm like, oh god, that's disgusting. But it just didn't feel as masterful.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

I can I can see where you're coming from with that. I think there was a a point in the third act where I thought to myself, wait a second, what what just happened the last 15 minutes? Like I feel like I've missed something, or maybe I fell asleep. I don't know. I didn't, but like it felt like that for a moment where it's just kind of like things weren't as tight as they normally are. I think the thing that shocked me though was probably, to be honest, Kristen's recasting. Like that caught me off guard, and it took me a second to like I had to think about like, wait, is this a continuation of part three? Because I recognize two other characters and I know that they know each other because we watched part three, but I don't kind of see the connection, and then I realized, oh, that's the same character. Okay, I'm putting it together, but also at the same time, how did part three happen? And then, but also in the story, it kind of like never happened to these characters.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Dude, yeah, it's so weird, and it's not even about the fact that we get a character recast, it's about the the fact that we got a character recast and the next actress did not live up and feel the shoes of her predecessor. The journey that this character goes on is not the same as it is in a in Dream Warriors, but it still left me wanting more, but not in a good way. It's because I expected more.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yeah, I I agree, but that the the recast threw me off quite a bit. So, like they could really they couldn't get the same actress to play Kristen. Like, I I I don't know how that happened. I'm sure there's a reason, but that was a miss for me. Like Tuesday night, while a pretty cool name, just didn't vibe with me. Especially since the other remaining Dream Warriors stayed the same. It just didn't sit with me throughout the film. But the biggest surprise for me was that the one-liners just kept getting better and better. This one really came out swinging, some of Freddy's best lines in this film for sure.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

You can't overlook that. That's one of the things that I am not forgiving this film for. I can still hear Patricia Arquette's screaming right now. Her scream is like one of those top-tier screams, and her acting and that was so good. And I mean the main reason from my understanding uh that she wasn't back was because of pay disputes. Which is tough to hear. Uh completely understandable if you're not getting paid the amount that you need to. I mean, I respect it. It's like a thumbprint that's just like a fill-in. It's like you're not actually you're not you're not Patricia Arquette.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah. You know what? It's you're wanting Boarshead, and then you got Aldi. Like that's the difference here.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

It's definitely something that's like is like a asterisk in it, and it's like, it's not really her. But yeah, and the same same with the one liners too. I definitely uh it this is peak Freddy humor, and uh it's not intentionally humorous, it's more like painful humor where it's like he's doing it menacingly. It's still menacing and it's not just like a stick poke, like let me grab the lowest hanging fruit and make a joke about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Even the ones that are kind of kind of low-hanging fruit and silly are still kind of zingers in ways, because like if he uses one where he says, I'll give one example, no spoilers, but th there's there's a line where he says, Wanna suck face. And just like his delivery is kind of hilarious because it's it's not meant in in a way that's like I'm gonna be silly and then chase you around. It's like I'm gonna use this super corny line and then I'm gonna F you up. And like that's the time when you can get away with that kind of stuff is you can have somebody say super silly stuff like that if they are absolutely going to demolish anybody right afterwards. It it just works.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Listen, I was there and then he lost me at How's This Were a Wet Dream. It was too good. It was too good. Quality line, quality stuff, so good. Listen, the one liners, immaculate. Nobody does his zinger like Freddie Krueger does his. Half of them don't talk. But then the other half, Freddie, I think goes pound for pound with Chucky and often has better quality. He may not have the highest quantity, but he, I think for sure has a better quality in terms of his dialogue. Uh now thinking about just the movie itself and thinking about you know the the creepiness of it, I think at this point, because we get so much of Freddy's personality in his zingers, he's less and less scary every single time we see him. He was spooky in one, spooky in two, moments and scenes were spooky in three. But here, I mean, we get a shot of him at a beach, and I'm just like, bro, why are we just making this a joke now?

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Yeah, the film is not really that frightening. Um, in fact, I I mean I feel like the franchise itself has gotten less and less frightening, to your point, while getting more and more campy and comical as it progresses. There are some gross parts for sure, slimy parts, right? You kind of uh alluded to that, but to me, uh there just wasn't really that many jump scares, if any at all. But there were some great kills and some even better moments from Freddy, and that's what I really showed up for.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Yeah, definitely. This movie is more creepy than scary. And I think something that it does well that the remake failed to do miserably is it's on the cusp of the pedophile side that's not ever talked about in the older films because it's never directly told. And then because whenever it is in the remake, it's just off-putting. And it's like, I didn't need to know that. We kind of already knew that it hangs on the line of that creepiness of it, but it's definitely like you get like chills a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

I have a particular reason why Freddy Krueger is not frightening to me at all, and that's because before I was ever old enough to to watch a nightmare on the street films, I was probably old enough to be honest, because I mean I was an old man as a child, but um I was a Power Rangers fan as a kid and got to see the 95 film, and in that film is Ivan Ooze, which is a poor man's Freddy Krueger, but for a kid, right, like he's he's silly, he has very similar styles of makeup, uh, and he has one-liners just like Freddie Krueger. So it's like when I hit probably, I don't know, 13, 14 and started watching way more horror movies and finally got to see Freddy Krueger. It's just like, oh, that's just Ivan Ooze but red, and he gets to curse this time and kill people, I guess. But like, not that I thought that actively, but in my brain there's this subconscious thing going on where I'm like, that's just not a frightening character to me. And so I've just never, I mean, I don't find many films scary at all, but I've just never found the character himself scary. I've always found him to just be like this really silly, cheesy, gross dude.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Okay, yes. But I think one of the best things about Freddy up until this point in the franchise is that each movie felt different. You can only do Dream Demon so many ways. See, we think about the natural progression of his interaction with Nancy and then Jesse, and then we get a whole gang in Dream Warriors, and this felt more like making a Xerox copy of Dream Warriors. I guess the idea, there are some original elements of the script, sure, but there wasn't a whole lot in here that really made me feel like, damn, now this is a different nightmare on Elm Street. This is more like, oh, this is the same recurring dream I've had.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

The the effects though, I think are what set it apart for me. And there's a couple effects in particular that I found to be just like so cool that they're memorable. Story-wise, I'm I'm in the same boat where it does, it feels heavily attached to the previous film. It's kind of like when you get to Friday the 13th and it's like, okay, this is the next night, and then that's the next night. And then we get that one film that just like jumps it by years, you know? And so that's it's it's different, which is fine, but at the same time, it does, it doesn't quite match the vibe. And this, I don't know, I'm I'm not gonna hate it because it it like continues where we were, but it does feel like a little bit of a jump, and that's all right because I think it makes up for that fact with some incredibly cool practical effects that I like I had never seen before. I was really curious, like, how the heck do they do that without CGI? It looks so good.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah, I mean, so it it's not the most original film. I see what you are all saying, right? Like I get it. It has some originality points, right? It does dive deeper into the storyline from the previous film, The Dream Warriors. The continuity um there was kind of really cool, and it and it gave us more without feeling too redundant, so I'm gonna give it some points on that.

SPEAKER_04 26:44

Like most of the films in here, all the kills feel very original to me. There's one in particular that I feel like a lot of us will probably have tied for our favorite kill. For me, it builds on it a little bit. I do feel the point where uh Chris was saying that it does feel like sort of the copy-paste little bit, which kind of goes with the director that they got, which was homeless at the time, and he just he did this. They went to him because of his backgrounds and special effects. They s were writing the script as they as the days went on, and it's sort of the way that it was set up is here are some cool dream sequences. Now let's build a story around that. Which is fine in a whenever you think about it, but whenever you're actually trying to write a film and actually tell a story, you can see it in the film where it's like there's there's just time between each we gotta fill time in between each of these dream sequences. So let's just have these characters interacting and make sure everyone knows each other and you know these groups of people.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

You know, the filling time is really, I think, what kills it for me. I felt that even in the ending, it felt like a really kind of like, hey, let's just do something real quick to figure out how to conclude this whole thing and let's try to make it different though. Like let's take the past movies and go a different direction, but like I don't know that it's fully thought out. Let's just go with it and see. While it's not the worst ending of any horror movie I've ever seen by any means, I've seen so many other slashers completely end like trash. This is nowhere near that, but I do think it's the weakest ending in the franchise. I think that it's a hot take. Let me okay, let me correct. I think it's the weakest in the franchise that we've seen so far on this show. Because Jason goes to hell, we think about Freddy's dead. Sure. We got some other crossover action here, but I think of the four films we've seen, I think this is the weakest ending.

SPEAKER_04 28:44

Still a hot take. The passion. I think it's the best ending in the Night Around El Street franchise.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Ooh.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Just because for one, the way that uh Freddy is wrapped up, it feels it feels like an open and shut book. Besides the scene at the end where it's a little wink wink nod nod to the fans. I'm not gonna say it's my favorite ending of any movie ever. That's not true, but I I'll stand by that this is the best ending in a nightmare on Elm Street franchise.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

I don't know enough to say best or worst, because I haven't seen them all. Um that that part should be pretty obvious. But I I'm just gonna say it's cheesy. It's got a cheesy ending, and maybe that's okay. Like maybe there's nothing wrong with having a cheesy ending. In particular, like our main character, it it kind of got super cheesy with her towards the end. And and that's all right because again, I think it's made up for. I think it's made up for with what we get with Freddie. I think it's made up for with the effects that we get in in particular. And like you mentioned, we get a little wink, we get a little nudge, and that really sealed the deal. Like that was a really fun way to wrap things up because if you're gonna have an ending, if you're gonna make it seem final, like punch us in the face, be like, gotcha. And I think they were able to do that a little bit. I think they were able to say, like, come on, you know better.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

Yeah, uh everyone made fair points. Look, overall, the ending is what you could expect from this franchise to me, at least at the point that this film is in during this part of the franchise. These kids have to dig deep with no help from the adults and find some creative new way to get rid of Freddy. They pretty much feel like they won, but no one really wins against Freddie, right? He's gonna be back. So overall, it's what I would expect from this film.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

I love that Sean is just really out here for the accountability of the fucking adults in Springwood.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Someone's gotta hold some accountability here.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, someone really does. And listen, there's so much to unpack as the conversation continues. Obviously, Zach and uh that you die are probably gonna have to like, you know, go toe-to-toe with some of these opinions, right? I'm excited to see how that unfolds in the second half. Now, obviously, we've had a lot to say, and we have to consider how we're gonna rate this movie, but before we do, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_03 31:00

You know, this one is interesting because there are some kills where you see really little to no blood at all, and then there are some scenes when you see some pretty cool gore for its time, right? With the effects. The ending scene with Freddie had some decent gore without giving too much away. And with that, I would say the parts you do get some gore is enough to give this, you know, a medium low to medium gore score.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

But what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_03 31:27

The animal report is safe. In fact, I would say there is some animal violence flipped the other way, but there are no harm to animals in this film.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Alright, well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. A nightmare on Elm Street 4, the Dream Master from 1988. Was it a hacker slash?

SPEAKER_04 31:43

As I've talked throughout um the spoiler-free zone, this movie is a movie that I hold dear to my heart. It is a guilty pleasure, I will admit. I am not going to ignore the flaws that it has. Cause as I talked about with the gang before we hopped on here, I believe that if you're a true fan of a movie and if you really love a movie, you will acknowledge and see the flaws that it has. Because all movies have flaws, regardless. I I acknowledge that there are some in this, but at the end of the day, this is a total slash for me.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Alright, look, uh, is this the best film in the franchise? No, not by any means. Did the campiness of it all really overshadow any seriousness or frightfulness of what Freddie once had? Probably. But overall, this was still a good time. It was filled with visually fun scenes, creative kills, hilarious quotes from Freddie, and it kept me entertained the whole way through. So for this, the movie's a slash for me.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

I'm gonna jump on here with a little bit less zeal, I think, you know, uh, but I still think it's an enjoyable movie. I think you're right. I think there's some cheesiness, and I've already called that out, and that's okay because it's Freddie Krueger, and Freddy's the one having fun. And movies these days, nobody's really having fun, right? Like that's the problem I have with superhero movies is is anyone really having fun in them? Everyone's like so serious, you know. We get like the DC universe where it's just like dark and brooding and so depressing. And I think when you get into a horror movie where a really twisted individual can have a good time, you are the one that's having a good time with them. Our teens are going through some stuff and they are just dealing with it as teens would stupidly. But when Freddy's on screen, Freddie's Freddy's having fun, Freddy's got the lines, the quips, the kills, and although we get that cheddar here and there, I'm okay with it. Overall, it still works out to be a slash.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Okay, look, when it comes down to it, this movie's a slasher. It's Freddie Krueger being Freddy Krueger, and how can you really be mad at that? I will say that I walked into this, knowing that there's a point in the franchise where things get weird, and that there are so many movies in this franchise that really aren't objectively good. That being said, I expect this to be a super duper slash. Like, not question it, fill it out my answer sheet. I can select slash pretty confidently. I think where I suffer with this movie is in how bad the bad parts are. The characters in particular, except for Freddy, and even except for most of Alice, are just horrendous for me. It's a very special brand of unlikable. Not because they're like particularly bad people, but rather they're more so like boring and forgettable. There are points in my notes where I was drawn out of the movie because of the way some of these characters were speaking. And it was like, all right, what are we doing here? Are we watching a Friday the 13th movie? Because Freddy at its worst should still feel better than maybe Jason at some of his best, right? Like there's like a disparity in like the quality of these two franchises. And this did not feel like the classic Freddy that I expected to, even acknowledging that things will get weird. I think there's enough in this movie that still saves it to be a slash for me. But it is absolutely towards the bottom of the rewatch order. There are other Nightmare on Elm Street movies that I would watch before this, but man, we got so much to unpack. Now, a nightmare on Elm Street 4, the Dream Warriors from 1988, has thus far earned a universal slash. Now you can find this movie available for rent or streaming online, so go check it out. Then join us in the second half so Zach and I can go toe-to-toe about this heading together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

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SPEAKER_00 36:51

Now we have a lot to get to here, in particular our thoughts on the ending of this film. But before we get anywhere near there, Sean, take us through the kills.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Alright, so we don't have a super high amount of kills in this movie. I think there was a total of six, but where the movie lacks in the amount of kills, it sure makes up for with some pretty great kill scenes. There were so many good like scenes, kill scenes, one-liners that like led to kills. If I had to pull uh one out of the hat, I think Kincaid's uh death was was awesome, right? We get to see Freddie come back. Granted, the way he came back is super questionable, but we get to see Freddy come back. I think Kincaid gets stabbed by Freddy's, you know, blade glove, and then Kincaid saying, I'll see you in hell, and Freddy replying, Tell him Fred sent you.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Oh, yeah. So good. But let me just say that felt so sad to me, particularly because we see Kincaid like in the real world, it seems like it appears as though he's dying of cardiac arrest, but his dog is right there with him, just so excited to see him, and it's like, oh, the trauma of you not even understanding that this man is no longer with you. And it it was reminding me of uh a few things, namely Simba nudging Mufasa, waiting for Mufasa to wake back up. So sad. Uh, my favorite death is actually the one that comes right after that, and that's Joey's death. Not because I think it was like the all-time best in the movie, like there's certainly more that are that are far more graphic, but two things here. One, it reminds me and is reminiscent of Glenn from a nightmare on Elm Street. We love a bed death in this franchise. In addition to that, it really just set me back on my history with waterbeds, being that there was one in my in my home and in my family for a very, very long time. And then it's also giving a goofy movie. I think all those three things combined, great death.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

Well, I hope I don't steal Max. Because I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet. But my favorite kill in this whole franchise is Debbie's death. The special effects Chef's Kiss. They are great. Though the slow progression of her turning into the thing that she fears the most, which is a cockroach in itself is disgusting. I cringe every time I see that because I'm like, this is so good, but I have to keep on watching because the special effects are so good, but uh, I cannot imagine that happening to me. But her death is like so great. Obviously, props to the director for um his background in special effects, because I'm surprised, like Mac was saying, with the CGI, like there was none used in it. It's practical effects on her, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Okay, so let me just tell you one that real quick noped my way out of that death, and it was when her elbows snap under the weight, because then I thought I remember how much my elbow hurt when I fell through a roof and fractured it. No, I felt such searing pain watching that scene, uh, which again is enough to put it back into slash territory, right? But the whole roach element of it could have done without it. I'm not saying it's not impressive, because it really is. It's a truly a feat of technology, but that was something that uh I I could have stomached less of.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

And you, as you guessed, you you also chose the kill that I chose at first. And I think it is the most visually impressive kill that we get. It's insane. It's such a great choice. It really grossed me out when watching it, just like Chris, because I don't like cockroaches either. And you know, spending a lot of time in the South, you see a lot of them and you kill a lot of them over the years, or in some cases you shoo them outside so they can come back another day. But if I had to pick a second, I'm looking through the deaths, you know. I almost I almost cheated. I almost said a close death, not an actual death, but Dan. Like that almost that was almost, I mean, he like frickin' had a car accident, right? And so that like that's no, that's cheating. I'm not gonna cheat. I gotta go with Sheila. I gotta go with Sheila because that was so disgusting. And one, Sheila truly did not deserve it. But to like see him pick her up after saying that disgusting line, to see him like pick her up, and then she immediately started to shrivel and like sink inward. It wasn't like a like a slow progression, it was just like boom, hoover onto her face, her insides are going out. It was so nasty, and she just looked like a shriveled mess, just like a glove instead of a hand. It was so nasty.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Okay, so listen here. Sheila did not deserve it, and her death is on my list of worst things in this movie. Because can that girl just catch a break? Your girl's out here working so hard, being a real good friend, helping inspire others to get their head out of their asses and really do something with their lives. Mind over matter. And here she is getting bamboozled and sabotaged by Alice. And unbeknownst to Alice, it's not malicious intent, but it's still fucking sad. Her death scene did have one of my favorite visuals, which was looking at the paper. And this is my this may seem really silly given like this breadth of effects that we have in this movie, but looking at the paper and the formulas moving around, because wow, I've never felt more seen in a nightmare on Elm Street movie. That shit is relatable. Anytime I see numbers, that's what the fuck they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Yeah. My favorite visual element of this film were probably just the dream sequences themselves, right? I think that the way that they shot those with the set design, visually just super, super great, especially when everyone's dreams like kind of transform into this grungy version of reality. I think it was showcased really, really well in what you were talking about, Mac. Was it Dan in the diner when the diner's turning grungy and and he's doing the meatball pizza, right? Like that was such a great visual scene for me. Just everything transforming like that into kind of Freddy's world was so awesome to look at throughout this film.

SPEAKER_04 43:05

Like we were talking about earlier, like this is visu visually, it's definitely sticks out versus the previous films. I love the 80s colors that this film has. And I mean, it's hard to explain. I mean, obviously, the 80s it was popping, it was live, it was like neon colors here and there, but it just it just felt like 80s to me. Like it's uh it was shot brighter in a sense, and I feel like that's just just because of the change of the directors and everything. But I just loved like the way that it looked. And one thing that I also want to point out, the ending getting it set into in a church, and also like just the stained glass feel and everything, it feels creepy, and it also feels right for the movie to end there, at least where Freddie wants it. To end. And overall, like the dreamscapes are always great visual elements as well.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Trevor Burrus Yeah. That ending, that was part of that was my favorite visual as well, because there's a lot going on in the end to look at. There's just so much happening. But the thing that just like truly caught my eye over and over was like the soles attached to Freddy's chest and his body. So we see it earlier when he like reveals the faces coming off of his body. And you're like, oh, that's kind of nifty. I just thought that was going to be it. I didn't know they were going to come back with the venions. And that effect is so insane because it looks like they had to film it to make it like use real arms, but make it look like they were smaller or something. But then we like zoom out and he's normal sized and we're still seeing them with fluid movements. It was so good to see those things spewing out of him, ripping, grabbing onto things, the faces appearing and swirling through behind him. They would not be able to do that with CGI because you would be able to tell it was so fake. This with practical effects looks just unbelievably good.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Absolutely disgusting is what that is. I have the NECA figure from this movie, and there is like an interchangeable plate for his chest where it has a ripped sweater and the soles exposed. So disgusting. I refuse to put it on him on uh on display. When I think about Freddie and like just what his body goes through in this movie, right? It's some real gross shit. I mean, Freddie's had some better days. Uh obviously the limbs exploding from him from those souls as they're kind of manifesting, and my favorite scene in the movie is actually you know in support of some of the effects that we get. It's I'm gonna get so much hate for this. This is so fucking stupid. It's the hellhound pissing on Freddy to raise it resurrect him, and then Freddie's gooey skeleton reforming and coming back to life. That shit was great. You shouldn't have buried me. I'm not dead. So good.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Okay, but how does dog piss resurrect Freddy? I gotta know this.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Hellhound. Yes, piss flames, urinary tract infection. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

So it wasn't actually, you know, the real dog that did it. It was all like a symbol for hellhounds releasing Freddie, bringing him back, you know, because that's what happens, right? Dream demons and stuff. Okay. All right. I'll let that one go.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

He couldn't hold it anymore. You just gotta let it go. And you gotta go, you gotta go.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

I think Freddie just got pissed. He's like, don't desecrate on my grave.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

And don't defecate either.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Two very bad things to do to graves. Wouldn't recommend. I know that we had some dialogue in Dream Warriors. Some thought the spooky scary skeleton of Freddie was a little bit weird. I love seeing him come back to life, even though it was really weird. Especially the eyeball just like reforming, super gooey, super ew. And I absolutely loved it. And I mean, even just thinking about bodies real quick, can we just point out that Rick, his jaw was way too chiseled and way too broad for his arms to be as skinny as they were? I'm sorry, I had to point it out.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Okay, so Rick is maybe not a favorite scene, but a scene I wanted to point out was just seeing Rick run into console Alice in the hallway with the goofiest run on earth. I thought that was deliberately camp. I thought that was just like making fun of horror movies or making fun with them because it's also a horror movie. But like I thought that there was no way that was accidental, right? Like that had to be a like just done on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Look at the quality of the other performances in this fucking movie. That's not on purpose. That is just a happy accident that you're giving a lot of credit to.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

I mean, after that cringy line that he says, don't know if it's a story. We're dropping off like flies here. And it's like, okay. And then just darts off, Naruto run, and with his little I don't know what he was wearing, a trench coat or something. What are you in high? You're in high school, dude. Why are you wearing a trench coat?

SPEAKER_03 48:02

80s. Sweater vests, cardigans, trench coats, weird hair. Yeah. 80s.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

My favorite scene goes along, I mean, is with Mac too. Uh like some uh little background about um Freddie's death, especially, is that they actually did they made a 12 foot-tall replica of Freddy's chest, and they made the sweater and everything, and they had actual people coming out and stretching out and stuff, and like to the point where they just kept on having people like push out and everything, and at one point, like one person like popped the latex type stuff and like opened up the hole on actual uh Robert England. They had like little arms and stuff come out for the for the tops thing, but that's it was pretty cool seeing how it was done and everything.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Yeah, that's awesome. Uh I gotta say, you all have some really good points. Uh, I agree, Chris. I think I think that beginning Freddie's resurrection was visually really cool, although questionable. Uh, very, very cool. Uh my favorite scene in this film was what I was talking about a little bit earlier, right? Um, with Alice uh it getting immersed into that grungy, like decrepit version of the diner that she worked at, seeing like her herself old or the old version of herself working behind the counter, and then Freddy like eating the meatball version of Dan and saying, I love soul food. And I mean, how great was that scene? That scene was awesome. Um, probably my favorite scene for sure. And how did that scene start? I'm trying to remember. Like, did she get like sucked into Pleasantville or something? Is that how that all started?

SPEAKER_04 49:39

Yeah, she was like, she was already asleep at her house, and then she's like, in her dream, let's go to the movies. And then she gets out not Alice of Wonderland, she gets sucked into the movie, which it's uh I've never seen two-story movies like that before, but it's definitely something very creepy. And that whole that whole scene too, it's just I we were talking about meatball pizzas. I can I could never eat one after that.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Especially from a diner. That's not where I would go to get a meatball pizza, just saying if I had to go anywhere to find a pizza, it's gonna be like a pizza place that just has like fun zany pizzas, not a diner, because that's gonna be questionable to begin with.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Yeah, I mean, hey, if we're talking about not wanting to eat a pizza afterwards after seeing that scene, how about like when Debbie pulls the cockroach out of her bag of potato chips in the beginning? If that happened to me, I'm not eating chips for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yeah, fuck that.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Looking back at it, it's kind of cool to see kind of like a premonition, if you will, but ooh gosh, not eating chips for a while after that one.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Could you imagine you have premonitions and you think it's gonna be all final destination, but you're just gonna see 10 seconds ahead into how many times you're gonna encounter a roach?

SPEAKER_04 50:52

I also want to say that another one of my favorite scenes is whenever Alice goes into kick-ass mode and uh dresses up in her, you know, weird get up with all of her the mementos that she's gotten from everyone. I don't know, I think it's just me. I really I just really like that scene and just the music in it and just seeing her, and she's like uh fucking A. And obviously throwback to Kincaid and just seeing her like taking all the good parts of everyone that she's lost in a sense, even people who she wasn't close with, but all of her friends, and just putting it together and just like, I'm doing this, and I'm taking him down because I'm a fucking badass.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

It's giving let's get down to business to defeat the Huns. Did they send me daughters when I asked for sons?

SPEAKER_02 51:46

Okay. The vibe I got though was Team America. We're gonna need a montage. That's immediately what I thought of when that fe when that scene started.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Never saw that movie.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Well, it's it's definitely not up your alley, but like it didn't it it didn't feel as serious as it probably should have for me. It felt like more fun and and easygoing. Like this is kind of silly, we gotta beat a bad guy in a horror movie. Like, let's let's just like have fun with it.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Okay, but hear me out. You know how Ryan does that thing where she absorbs the best parts of the people that she cares about? She picks up on phrases or accents, she steals people's accents from each other. I feel like if there's a final girl in a nightmare on Elm Street that Ryan would be, it'd be Alice.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

I could see that, especially with the like eclectic style here. She would be able to pull it off.

SPEAKER_04 52:32

Speaking of Final Girls, how did you how did y'all like our previous Final Girl or Tuesday night's little song at the beginning of the movie?

SPEAKER_02 52:42

I I feel like Tuesday night got a lot of play in this movie and it's a little bit too much play. It should have it should have been minimized. If we're gonna minimize other characters that we've carried over from the films, I mean, first of all, the Kincaid scene where he's like fighting Freddie and he's just like, oh hell yeah, right? Make me make me uh give me let me see more of that. I'm down for that. Tuesday night though, like nothing wrong with with her as a human being, but I feel like in this case here, Kristen just got a little bit too much time on screen.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

And then she was a little bit too flat. There I said it. Her dialogue was such a labor to get through, especially her and Alice speaking to each other. The only moment where I didn't feel that badly about it was actually one of the last conversations they had when they talked about having matching luggage. And we think about just like, you know, Alice talking about and revealing the dream master bit and Kristen kind of opening up, like, how do you deal with your nightmares, etc., etc. It was like a good bonding moment for them. But by then we just like their this, even the sound of their voices and the way their like their inflection went as they were speaking their lines. I was already removed from it. So even though that was a good quality moment for the two of them, I still could not reinvest in them.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Do back to the original question, though. I actually didn't hate the song at the beginning. I actually thought it was a kind of a nice touch because I had no idea that it was sung by one of the actors. It was it's kind of fun to know that later on.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

It's in my Spotify playlist. I listen to it sometimes. I'm just like, ooh.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Uh look, I I I think we all know I already said my my feelings about Tuesday night, right? Cool name, flat performance for sure. I did feel invested in Alice. I thought it was cool to see her transform from helpless to hero as the film progresses. The the remaining dream warriors, though, that that we came to love from the previous installment died way too quickly, um, leaving us like with a group of characters that were lackluster at best. All of them really fell super flat for me. It was super tough.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Yeah, I'm bummed we didn't get more Joey. We really barely got any Joey. We got we got a good bit of Kincaid. I would have preferred a bit more, but the characters, you know, it's that they do this sometimes in TV shows where they want to bring in a new cast, and so like one by one they'll replace them, and then by the end of the series, it's a whole new group of people that you're supposed to care about. And they were just like, nah, one by one, kill them off immediately and get some new people in here.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

You know, it is disappointing that we didn't get more Joey, especially because Joey went through so much the movie before, and it was really sad to see Joey and Kincaid not really believe Kristen when she started coming up with these concerns. It's like, guys, come on. After everything, you're really not gonna listen to her. I know that y'all trauma bonding and some of you have moved on, but this feels like if you went through the shit you went through one year ago, then you might be a little bit more understanding or compassionate.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

100%.

SPEAKER_04 55:41

Do y'all not think though, because she kept on going back in and messing with it, that she unintentionally uh brought him back?

SPEAKER_00 55:50

I think she was trying prolonged exposure therapy. You just gotta face your fears, you know?

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Okay, but Kristen's mom, though, who the hell drugs their kids by slipping pills into their drinks? What kind of mother is that?

SPEAKER_00 56:03

Again, Sean out here with the accountability for the fucking adults who are the real problem in this franchise. They're the real villains. Absolutely. But then to look at the comment, like, could you imagine if you're her mom and the last thing your daughter says to you is, you just murdered me. Take that to your goddamn therapy. Wow, I would not survive much longer after this scenario.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

If they were to successfully reboot this franchise, they would have to do more in the way of showing that the adults have been kind of the instigators of everything bad that happens the entire time. They like have to like really point that out. Honestly, if they were to reboot it, Freddie shouldn't even be a bad person to begin with. Freddy should just be like a good guy that's painted in a bad light by the adults in this town, just to really show that they've they've set themselves up for failure.

SPEAKER_03 56:51

Look, if I had the power to bring people into my dreams, I'm bringing all these fucking parents in here and they're going down.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Okay. But I do have to mention, look at how strange and oddly timed the curriculum is at this school. You're talking about sleep and dreaming when there's a nightmare demon on the loose, right? And you know, it's like the education system in Springwood is really like better cover all our bases here, given our town's history. What if this guy comes back? Let's just talk about the practice of dreaming, the logistics of dreaming, that way our teenagers are well equipped.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Yeah, they don't need to know how to do their taxes because they're not gonna make it that long.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

Exactly. Fuck that. Teach them how to die in their dreams.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Now, talking about all these people, I do I do have a question. What the heck was Rick's deal? Like personality-wise, because to be fair, he I know is like the brother of somebody or whatever, but he was the worst part of this movie for me.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

Okay. I thought I was legitimately watching a karate kid movie for a second there, okay. You must dream you must master your dreams, Daniel Son. Like, come on, like what that? I mean, I get it. It's an 80s film, cool, whatever, but that scene really threw me off. I don't know if that was the worst part of the film for me. Really, I don't know how popular this will be, and it's not really just tied to this film in the franchise, but the thing that I really can't stand is the the main like theme music. It's too chimey and high-pitched, and it really just annoys the shit out of me.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

See, I like the original theme music, but I wasn't crazy about the late 80s, like intimate music that started this movie. Um, but for me, worst part of the movie, absolutely hands down, aside from aside from wanna suck face and just destroying our our girl here, it was the moment when we have this gaping hole in Freddy and the beating heart. The fucking effects were so bad. And you cannot tell me for a second that they didn't weigh down the quality overall of the effects in this film because that was laughable at best. Yeah, the little wipe on, wipe off moment. It was honestly like kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back. Like I was already struggling through the end a bit, and then we get that fucking moment, and then we get the woo for the ghosts after. It was just too much.

SPEAKER_04 59:18

The worst part of the movie for me would probably have to be uh Rick's dreamscape. It started it started good. I mean, it started weird also. Um you just sitting on the toilet and then you have uh old crispy Tuesday night over there just in the mirror and then turns around and just like whists them away in an elevator, and then you know, we turn into karate kid, and it's just like I saw something where at that point they had a whole different uh thing planned. I th supposedly something with the elevator. They had run out of budget, so they just threw in something and just like we have to kill him in some way. This kid likes karate, so let's just go with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Yeah, it was reminiscent of Busta Rhymes doing kung fu with Michael Myers and Halloween Resurrection. That's what it's what it reminded me of.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

They should have just had him like being chased by Freddy, doing his goofy run and not able to get away from him.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:19

But then he'll run like he was in the hallway, and then it'll get away faster.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Okay, look, like for sure, Rick super goofy, uh, really awkward gazelle when he runs. But when I think about re-watching this movie again, I'm mostly there. But what I considered the ending, which is again another like worst part of the movie for me, it was it just kept going on and on. And then for her to very cheesily point the mirror back at him and he looked at himself. This movie ended because Freddy looked at himself excessive and weird. Wasn't a fan. And I think that's gonna probably again prevent me from watching this in its entirety for a very long time.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

But aren't we all our own worst enemies?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Listen, who is that girl I see staring straight back at me? I get it, we have the reflection, we had the mirror, we had the parallels because she is the dream master. We have that, and for as much as she tried to conceal her own reflection, he has to confront his, and that is what ends up being his his undoing. I get it. Some kind of poetry there, but it still didn't fucking land well for me. It was just still too cheesy. I'm looking at the man in the mirror. Listen, this is a movie where Freddy's corpse gets pissed on to come back into life, and I still think it's not the worst part of the movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Like that says a lot. It does. Hey, uh, I I don't know. Uh rewatchability, I don't know when I will revisit this one. Uh I'm sure it'll it'll come around. I think as you're watching, you know, these films through the franchise, uh, I'm sure I'll watch it at some point, but not my favorite one. Uh again, like I I love the original film. I watch that very often. Um, but you know, I just don't know when I'm gonna revisit this one anytime soon.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

I'd say I'm satisfied enough to keep going. And I know eventually we have to watch all of them, but like when I sat down to watch Friday the 13th, I just kept watching and watched seven of them in a row. And I could see myself doing that here. I could see myself saying, hey, I want to keep going because there's not quite as many uh nightmare in Elm Street movies as there are Friday the 13th. So I think it would be a little bit easier to to dive into that kind of a binge. But it would be it would be fun to marathon it. And I'm probably just gonna keep going with with part five and then you know, after that and after that. But if I go back and start from part one, I would not skip this. I'll say that much.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

Obviously, I already said, I mean, I rewatch this movie all the time. So I'll definitely re-watch it. Um I think the most rewatchable part for me in this movie though is Alice's journey in itself. The main reason why I even slashed this movie in the first place, because she's she's the main reason why I slashed it, is because she really helped me get confidence in myself. It sounds cheesy, yes, but like just seeing her transformation a little bit because mind you, I was not as outgoing or as talkative whenever I was younger. And seeing this movie and everything and seeing everything that she goes through and like seeing her transformation in a sense, it helped me be more confident in myself, and it helped me just realize, you know, you can really be whatever you want to be. You don't have to care about what other people think. And it sounds cheesy, I understand. I mean, but like Max says, this movie's full of cheese, and guess what? I like Parmesan extra parmesan cheese on my pizza. Alice in itself is the main reason why I will re-watch this, and it just is a good journey for her in itself. The next movie, it's iffy on how good the quality is, but her journey in itself is a good one to watch, and I'll definitely be re-watching this movie a hundred more times than I already have.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:06

You know, Zach really watched a movie, a franchise, about a nightmare demon hunting you in your sleep and still walked away with a message follow your dreams. That's beautiful, Zach.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

I think the more impressive journey is not necessarily Alice's. It sounds like it's yours.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

Oh, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

It might be, yeah. Hey yo.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

Well, there you have it, folks. As Zach has joined us to review a nightmare and elm treat for the Dream Master from 1988. It's actually your universal slash. Now, we've had a lot to talk about here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means. Zach has so much more to say, I'm sure we all do, and we want to know what you think as well, so let us know. You can join in on the conversation by hanging out with us for free over in our Discord. Click the link in our show notes to sign up.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, consider becoming one of our patrons. Visit patreon.com slash hackerslash to enjoy more of the show with early access, extended episodes, bonus content, and live shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, asthma is an inherited condition.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:06

Rest in hell.