358: Smile 2 (2024)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Hello Greg, I'm Wet Lou. Spooky Season, greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. I've been waiting for you for such a long time. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, a total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

We believe horror is for everyone, and at such we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, and I'm your friendly neighborhood slash enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Put this in your mouth.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

This episode of Hacker Slash is brought to you by Adam and Eve, trusted for over 50 years to bring excitement into the bedroom. When you're looking for a little something to smile about, they've got you covered. Stay tuned to learn how you can save 50% off one item at adamandeve.com. Now, this week we're back in the theater to check out a newly released sequel to one of the most talked-about psychological, supernatural horror films of the last few years.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

And if you're a patron or Apple Podcast subscriber, you'll also get to hear our B-side at the end of this episode where we get into some of the best cursed horror films and discuss some of the creepiest smiles in cinematic history. And remember, our B-sides are free sides all throughout the month of October, so be sure to stick around.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Now, before Parker Finn had even wrapped production on Smile, he left a few threads intentionally dangling. While the film's monstrous entity kept plenty of viewers awake at night, its mystery stayed intact, leaving room for a sequel. And the time for that sequel has finally come. Following the success of the first film, Finn inked a deal with Paramount to develop more horror projects, with this sequel entering pre-production in 2023. By the time the cameras were rolling in the Hudson Valley, a stacked cast was already in place, featuring Naomi Scott, Lucas Gage, and even a few surprising appearances, like Drew Barrymore playing herself. This time the story takes us into the life of Sky Riley, a global pop star on the brink of a world tour, but instead of rehearsals, Skye finds herself confronting something far darker, terrifying events that force her to reckon with her past. This week we're talking about Smile 2. What were you expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_02 2:26

I was really expecting this to be much of the same, if I'm being honest. The whole chain system, the passing along the entity game that we got in the first one, I just don't know. I was expecting a lot of the same.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

How could you expect literally anything else different? I said it before, I'll say it again. When you get into this style of movie, it is a something happens, you have so many days to live, solve the mystery, or face your doom. And it can be interesting along the way. I realize that's is fucking rich coming from me. I like slashers. And slashers are boy meets girl, boy tries to kill girl.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Maybe she lives, maybe she doesn't. I realize that when you can reduce any style of movie down to anything, and these kind of movies work for a lot of people, but they don't typically work for me. I found the first smile movie to really be underwhelming, but this one I heard might have been different. I was hearing a lot of good stuff about this one.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

I was hearing that stuff too, and I gotta tell you, this one definitely felt to me even more tense throughout the entire runtime than I felt from the first one. It was a stressful time watching this one, is the best way that I can say it in the best way possible. It was a stressful fucking time, and yet despite being so tense, it still found a way to also feel long at one point.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

I 100% agree with you, Sean. This is one of those movies that gave me the feeling of we've been here before. And yeah, we've been here before, but it does look a lot better this time, it feels better this time.

SPEAKER_05 4:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

And I think where I struggle with smile, period, is that it invokes a really big feeling of hopelessness, and that happens again in this movie. You get a lot of hopelessness, you get a lot of discomfort, and the magnetic pull of a train wreck that you just cannot look away from. And I don't mean to say this movie is trash and it's a train wreck, but what I do mean is that it depicts a tragic spiral that you don't want to confront, but you also can't take your eyes away from it. And I think that is where for me it felt long. It had moments where it felt like time was almost stopping, and it's like, holy shit, can we move on to the next scene? Not because it was bad, but because it's like, ah, secondhand embarrassment. I don't know if I want to deal with this right now. Yeah. But Sean, you mentioned that you felt stressed. Let me tell you what fucking stressed me out. Our main girl, Sky Riley, and she chugs some water.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

And my gag reflex simply could never. I would have died or vomited every time she did it. I was like, ugh.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I feel like I was gonna puke.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Well, it was so aggressive. Like she was chugging that water so aggressively, and you can hear it. Kudos to the sound team in this movie because even down to just the roughest swallow, we're getting all the audio.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

The sound is something to behold in this movie, and I think that's what really like raises the level of stress in this.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Horror movies in particular rely on a lot of silence to then hit you with a sudden loud sound. But this one makes you hear every goddamn thing that was happening, and I already can't hear well. So the fact that I heard so much of this movie was astonishing.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Very, very well done. We'll get to the sound even more later on for sure, because there's definitely a lot more to say about it. But outside of all of these feelings, I really honestly didn't think that this movie could be told in a way that wouldn't feel like we were just re-watching a different version of the first one, right? That was kind of the fear going into it. And I really was trying to wrap my head around if this was going to be able to even pull something like this off without feeling redundant and overplayed. But I gotta admit, I was a little surprised that it was able to continue this story and really just build off it. It still was able to keep me engaged in the narrative of the film and interested in the character development.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

So I both agree and disagree with you because hell yeah, I was really interested in the character development. Hell yeah, I was really engaged in the narrative, hell yeah, it does a really great job of continuing the story, but where I fundamentally and principally disagree is that fuck, we didn't need this to be a sequel. Like we really didn't, but it's because this is a better version of Smile. It's more of the same, but upgraded, but but better. I would have loved to have seen this be the first film. And I did have this feeling about halfway through where I was like, holy shit, if this one particular aspect of this movie goes the same way as its predecessor, then I'm fucking gonna be incredibly disappointed. And we'll talk about whether or not that happened in the spoiler zone. I don't want to ruin anyone's flavor on this or tipping anything away because I do think a lot of people who are gonna be listening to this episode are curious if they should see Smile before seeing Smile 2. I think a lot of people have fucking seen Smile.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

This is true.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

But what I will say is this movie preys on you a little bit differently than the original Smile did. Smile was very obviously about the cyclical and vicious nature of generational trauma. And this one is about life and self-destructing, and maybe not even the ways that you're necessarily self-destructing, but how do other people contribute to the spectacle of your downfall? And I think that is a different take. I think that is really, really interesting. It made the whole rinse and repeat of it was the upgraded piece for the story.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

It definitely did, and we're semi-aligned on the feelings here because I definitely agree that a lot of what Smile did, a lot of the themes and maybe all of the themes that Smile did really built off of it and amplified it to another level. So I am with you in that aspect of it. We actually may end up being a lot more aligned than we think as we get further and further into talking about this. I mentioned it earlier, it's probably going to come up again. The biggest disappointment that I have, surprisingly enough, it's not that this is very similar to its predecessor, but it's really the feeling of the pacing of this film. Because whether or not it's what you're talking about, and there's some scenes that are just super uh tense that just kind of linger and hang there and make you feel like you want to just move on, or it's just that we did actually just have scenes that were too long or scenes that we didn't have to have at all, because I really feel this movie needed to be 20 to 30 minutes shorter than it was.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Ooh, okay. That's very interesting. Here's what I would offer as a counter.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I think the runtime of Smile should be reduced by 60% and tacked onto this movie. What?

unknown 9:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

You want to like a four-hour movie?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

I don't want a four-hour movie. I want Smile to be made a short film that leads directly into this movie. That's what I want. I want to previously on Smile without having to watch that whole first movie.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

To really just appreciate this one because I actually felt like the runtime on this was great. Again, the discomfort of the lingering was a real thing, but something that I certainly did not feel was fear. I know that Smile was really great about these jump scares. That one didn't get me. This one still didn't get me, but I do think it had its way of evolving its approach to a smiling entity or the scariness of a grin. I think it evolved that in a really interesting way. And I think it makes you pause and reconsider again the idea of spectacle or celebrity and looking at how these people are having to engage with their fans, and it really makes you feel how vulnerable this character is in so many facets of her life.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Oof. It's so true. But none of these, and I know they're like classic jump scares and stuff, but none of them even made your heart jump just a little bit. No, not even one of them. You know, we talk about this one really taking everything that was scary in the first film and really amplifying it. And I think that is also to be said with even the classic jump scares because they felt effective in this one, because what this movie was able to do was build some of those insanely tense moments and match it with what we were talking about, with this beautifully haunting score that really just builds. And it's not even that there's silence, there's these moments where the sound is just kind of this really low kind of hum that's like slowly building and the score is really adding to it. And then you get these like really high, like you know, piano, organ, strings, whatever are just all going and they they raise your nerves. There were moments where I feel like it did kind of really get you. Maybe you don't jump in your seat, but you get that kind of nervous jump that you feel within you. And I gotta say, I may not have jumped, but I do feel like the hairs on the back of my neck raised a little bit in a couple of moments. I think it definitely could feel those goosebumps coming on the arms, you know. I feel like there was some really cool moments in this film.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Well, I really love the vulnerability of that experience for you, Sean. That's fantastic. I did not feel that, but that's not to say I didn't care. I think there's a lot, and we talk about like, yeah, you can go through a haunted house and not be scared. There are very few things that scare me. Like I mentioned, there was something about the Carmichael Manor that we reviewed a few weeks ago.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

That like got close to making my chest feel a little tight, like, ooh, I don't like this. But there wasn't anything in this movie that made me feel that. But again, what I did feel was a high level of concern and compassion and empathy for our central character. I really wanted the best for her. And I think it's a testament to the power of her performance because I didn't give a fuck about the characters in the first smile film.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

At all. That's why I'm okay with like a good. I said 60, fuck it. Give me an 80% reduction in that runtime, slap it on. It's like the cold open for this movie.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

By the end of this episode, we will not even have a smile one, it will be depleted.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

I dare say you don't even need smiles.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

The only thing we need from smile one is to carry into the title and put a two at the end of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

You don't even need it.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Instead of a two, make it smile, comma, too. This movie was rinse and repeat with better ingredients. And again, I do not mean that as a negative because this feels like such an upgrade for me. This movie was powerful, it was compelling, it was inventive in how it adapts what you know about the entity to a larger scale. And for that, I do give it a lot of credit. And but at the end of the day, I've said it already what feels like a hundred times on this episode. This should have been, and really could have been the first smile movie. I that first movie ends up feeling like, oh, there's like this dangling question of like, oh, we can explore more with the entity, we can answer more questions. I don't know that you're gonna get that. I think it's just more fucked up shit, which is fine. It's spooky season. Let's see some fucked up shit.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Yeah, you're not wrong. This one definitely could have been the first and maybe the only smile, but you also have to think you would have to have some kind of previously, some kind of weird discovery of the past where you actually get to understand what's happening. Because I feel like that's really what the first one is doing. The first one is really setting you up to understand how this cycle is working or how this thing moves around, and then the second one is really just building off of that because you already kind of know the rules.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Okay, time for another Chris Supercut. We get smile too, we get to a certain point, stop the movie, yeah, watch a supercut, a smile, and then resume smile too.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

All right.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Flashbacks.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Listen, I'm all with the supercuts. Like, let's get them out there, let's see what happens. And you might make me a believer on that for sure. But originality, yes, this movie feels like pieces from a lot of really great films. Like we mentioned it follows, definitely feels like it follows as being very similar to the first one. And in a way, it is still similar to Smile 2, but Smile 2 also finds a way to carve its own path in some ways, but it's also a little bit of the ring. It's all I mean, I would even say it's a little bit even Black Swan.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

I haven't seen Black Swan, which is criminal.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I know you should definitely watch it. If anyone out there has seen Black Swan, maybe you agree, maybe you don't agree, but I do kind of feel a little black swan-e in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Here's the thing I grew up adoring, hoping that one day I would marry Natalie Portman.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

I get it.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Also had a great crush on Mili Kunis, and I heard all about what they do together in that movie and still I have not watched it.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

You gotta get around to it. One of these days you can't escape Black Swan forever. But listen, I love how it felt like all of these movies, and I think after reflecting on the film, and not while watching the film, but really just reflecting on watching Smile 2 as a whole, I feel like it felt like those movies, but it also felt like it wasn't completely ripping off all of these movies. It was still able to build its own kind of lore and its own kind of story. And for that, obviously, we have to give you some originality points because, like you said, Chris, you can basically just water everything down to anything that you want, right? Like you can really just break every single movie down, no matter how intricate it is or what have you, and really just bring it down to like one basic formula.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

You really could, and that's why I struggle a bit with this ending, because I'm both love and hate the ending of this movie. And I think maybe the hate becomes from like a very deep emotional investment into this character, and beyond that, I really cannot express why without spoiling it, but we will absolutely be unpacking this in the spoiler zone.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

You know what? Having a love-hate relationship with this ending is a really great way to put it, and we may be really aligned on this film in slightly different ways, if that makes sense. I also think we may have a love-hate relationship with this ending, maybe for completely different reasons. We're gonna find out. But, you know, some people have said that the film feels redundant in a way, some people have said that the film feels inevitable in a way, and I can see having all of those feelings in some capacity, but I think that, you know, the reveal that we get in the third act, it's harrowing. I think that the ending of this movie is definitely impactful, but it also feels impossible in a way. So, like, where do we go from here kind of thing? And you know, yeah, like you said, we're obviously going to get into it in the spoiler zone. We can't really get into it too much right now without giving things away. So we'll have to just put a pause on that. But the ending, yes, love hate for sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Well, I can't wait to see just how aligned we are in a moment. But for now, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Okay, so I'm just thinking back, right? I know the first film received a medium gore score, right? And after watching very recently Terrifier 3, this one feels like a pretty easy medium gore score. It felt more intense than the first film, so there's this argument for maybe a high gore score rating, but despite how good the gore was in those graphic scenes that we got, it was never on screen long enough or frequent enough to really convince me of a high gore score. So maybe we can settle on a medium high at best.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, I honestly am not surprised you said that, but there are certainly moments of high gore.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Right. There's moments of high, but those peaks are short-lived, so it mostly rests in the medium section.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

And what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_02 19:04

You know, all of the fur babies are completely safe, even though we know that dogs can smile. There's no dog deaths in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Smile 2 2024. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Okay. You know, for me, I feel like this movie really does have a lot going on for it. I feel like we have this formula that we know works because we saw it work in the first smile, we saw it work in It Follows in the Ring, whatever. It works, right? We get that. And it works really well in this movie because of how good the cinematography is, how good the acting is, and how good the score really complements each scene and really enables this film to really evoke some great feelings of creepiness, terror, as well as like I would even say some fantastic reactions from the general audience, I'm sure a lot of reactions, but I think it all of this combined really makes this a really fun but stressful watch. And it's a kind of a unique feeling. I feel like I don't sit through a lot of movies that really like make me feel tense, but there was a lot of moments in this movie where I was just like, you know, taking a deep breath at one point. And the best way that I can put this is it was an anxiety-fueled nightmare. It was much more cerebral than its predecessor. There was something much more diabolical and sinister about this film for some reason. And I don't know if everyone's gonna agree with me on that, but to me, it's very rare that a sequel turns out to be better than the original. But Smile 2 found a way to do just that because this was a far better movie than the first film was, in my opinion. It felt a little long for me, I'll admit that, but overall, it was filled with some truly creepy moments. It had me feeling anxious and unsettled throughout the entire runtime. And you know what they say? A smile is contagious because it's a slash.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

You know, Sean, as you were describing that and you talked about how rare it is for a sequel to be better than its predecessor. I thought, is this the terrifier too of Smile?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Maybe it's crazy. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Maybe maybe this movie had something to say. It's a really, really beautiful examination of self-destruction, toxic relationships, and the dangers of stardom. Yeah, the original also had a lot to say. But this one I felt was a really compelling study of that, largely because of Naomi Scott's performance. I think she absolutely carried this movie on her back. I just really wish this movie wasn't punctuated by a regurgitation of the first movie. If I set aside the parts of it that disappoint me, I'm really, really. Really, really glad that this is a continuation of Smile. We didn't need a Smile 2, but we did need this movie. We need this to be Smile and for the implications and aftermath of this film to be explored in a follow-up. I want, and I never thought I would see a day where I say this. I want this movie to be the fucking Evil Dead 2 treatment of Evil Dead. Fuck everything that happened. Quickly sum it up, but let's kind of retry it and then continue the story from here. This is what this franchise should be known for. I was underwhelmed by its predecessor, but holy shit, this one is totally killer. And it's a slash. And with that, Smile 2 has earned a universal slash, but there's so much more for us to discuss when we return from break. If you've already seen this one before, please let us know what you would rate it by joining the conversation about this film in our Discord server. Find the link to join in our show notes. But if you haven't seen it yet, you can follow the link in our show notes to see where you can watch it right now if this is posted theatrical run. Now when we return from our break, we'll dive deep into the spoiler zone, unpack that ending, and really see where Sean and I live. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Today's episode of Hacker Slash is brought to you by Adam and Eve. That's right, folks, AdamandEve.com, where you can spice up your life in more ways than one. Whether you're shopping for something exciting or trying to break free from the haunting smiles of everyday monotony, Adam and Eve has been there for over 50 years to help you escape discreetly. You can use code HACK at checkout to get an amazing 50% off one item. Plus, you'll get free shipping across the US and Canada. Aw, and no worries about your package creeping up on you. Discreet shipping is their specialty. Your neighbors won't even know you're keeping things interesting. Feeling haunted by your purchase decision? Fear not, my friends. With Adam and Eve's 90-day hassle-free returns, you can send anything back with no lingering regrets. And hey, if you ever feel like something's following you, maybe it's just Adam and Eve's 24-7 customer service. They're always around to assist with any questions or concerns. So head over to adamandEve.com and use code HACK for 50% off one item, free shipping, and free rush processing. Some exclusions apply, but the good vibes definitely don't. Adam and Eve, 50 years of helping you smile, but not in the creepy way. And when you only have eight kills, and then you have to take one away on a technicality, seven just doesn't feel like a lot. But I promise you, you will not miss. I don't think you'll miss a higher body count because this film doesn't really need a higher body count, and the kills that we do get are pretty good, whether or not they actually happened or not. So Chris, I gotta know which one of these kills made you smile.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Oh, there's so many of them. Well, you just had their seven, but I do think the ones that we get are pretty high quality. So I think they're a satisfying seven.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

And I also think this movie ends with the promise of an impossibly high body count in smile three, if that ever happens.

SPEAKER_06 25:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I think I want to almost go through this in a chronological order.

SPEAKER_06 26:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

And it's Joel's character getting run over by a fucking final destination truck, running away from gunfire. Not that I even gave a fuck about what he was doing in the beginning of this film.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I'm just here for the pretty bloody smile.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah. I mean, it was a jarring final destination moment for sure. I mean, it's a great way to open the film, like literally picking up, it's like six days later, and you're like right there at the end of his timeline for this curse to be attached to him. So he's got this weird plan. He thinks he's gonna beat it. He's walking into this drug house or whatever, and he ends up killing this dude. This dude accidentally dies. That was maybe I forget if it's his friend or his brother, but he accidentally dies, gets shot in the neck, everything goes awry. Then there's a fucking witness with Lewis behind him, and things get a little bit wonky.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

You know, moral of the story, kids. Don't do drugs. Don't do drugs. Don't end up in a drug dealer's house.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Yeah, don't find yourself there because you don't want to have to run from drug dealers and you don't want to have to hop out of a window, and you don't want to have to run into the middle of the road not paying attention, stopping, looking left and right, both sides before you try to cross the road, because then this fucking truck comes and just takes you out and smears your entrails across the world in like a form of a smile.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Holy shit, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

To be honest with you, I really kind of like all of the kills, but obviously we gotta talk about Lewis's death because Lewis's death was arguably one of not only the best kills in the movie, but maybe one of the best moments in the movie because it was just so creepy and it was so brutal, and it was actually very graphic, and it wasn't just the visual of Lewis smashing that weight, that plate, like into his face at full force, but the sound of it happening and the shots of his face getting progressively worse after each hit, it was like the combination of the sound and the visuals that just made that one so impactful.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Oh my gosh, that kill is what made me feel like this movie was way gorier than the previous.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Because just to see the slabs of face meat skin on his face fall off.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Yeah. It's very interesting. I was just talking to my wife about this as we were leaving the theater from watching Smile 2, and you know, we've seen a lot of good horror this year already, and this year feels like we're really cranking shit up a notch. Like, this doesn't feel like your average kind of jump scare type of situation. Like, we're out here putting movies out that are really graphic, man, and the fact that we're just like eating popcorn to them is pretty gnarly, but it it's kind of a fun time, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

What are we doing to ourselves? What are the long-term implications of this madness?

SPEAKER_02 29:00

It's pretty wild. We're going to some places that are pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Listen, when you're fucking 20 years old eating a bunch of McDonald's hamburgers, you don't really notice anything, and then all of a sudden you're 40 and you're like, fuck. Wish I hadn't done that.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Oh my gosh. I guess time will tell, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Mm-hmm. Something that wasn't necessarily as brutal, but was more emotionally harrowing was her mom stabbing herself. Stabbing her eye, and then the horrible realization, granted, all this shit's fake anyway, but the horrible realization that she's holding the bloody shard of glass.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah. We've actually seen that kind of flipped moment, at least a handful of times that I can remember in different horror movies, psychological horror movie type things, where we're seeing something play out, and then at the end of it, the protagonist wakes up out of whatever delusion they're in and just realizes that it was actually them. And it's like, fuck, what just happened? What did I just do? And then realizing all that, it was very, very harrowing for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

It's a very high tension moment.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Very high tension because you got a lot going on, right? Like you've got the reveal that you know her mom's now got this smile, she's starting to get weird, things are getting fucking freaky, right? So you got that, you're like, what's gonna happen? We're gonna freak out, and then all of a sudden she smashes the mirror, like abruptly, takes the glass, and you just know what's coming, but then it just happens swiftly, right? It just stabs herself in the neck, stabs herself in the eye, and then all of a sudden we get the whole like shuffle tuffle, and now Sky snaps out of whatever and is holding that piece of glass. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah, it's pretty awful. But here's the other side of this. I do have to wonder, would it have been more effective if we didn't get the rest of that scene and quite the dramatic confrontation? There comes a moment in this film where you're like, Alright, now that we're at this point, there's no fucking way she's making it out of anything. Even if she's able to kill this entity, she's spending the rest of her life in prison. She's gonna be like that guy from the first movie, etc. There's no quality of life there. But I almost had this feeling that once she realized what had happened and she had convinced this guy to go get her a different drink, and then she's walking around in a sweater with this bloodstain, and then pulling a gun on everybody, I was like, There's no way what we're seeing is actually happening.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Ah, okay. You were actually on to it at that moment.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Because it just felt too ridiculous. The stakes are too high. Yeah, it feels pretty absurd. And if that was in the last few moments of the movie, absolutely, but the runtime was significant.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

You know that the movie has some time left in it. There's no way that could be how it's actually ending.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Interesting. Okay. Well, I can definitely see how this could be a pivotal moment that maybe we both changed directions on how we feel, even though we both enjoyed the movie. I didn't actually put that together. This movie actually was like, I was just riding with the movie and vibing with the movie until it decided to give me what I needed to know. And then I was like, oh shit, man, that's fucked up.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

It is fucked up, and that's actually not what made me dislike the ending.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

I just wonder if it would have been more impactful if she had just managed to quietly escape that room versus confronting everybody, pulling a gun on literally everybody.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah. But yeah, if she didn't need to, then do we even need any of that scene? Like we could have had her just slip out, and then there's a piece that can be taken out of the movie, and that serves my point of like, hey, we got minutes shaved down, and that's gold.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Exactly. She could have escaped, avoided the lobby confrontation, run into Gemma on the sidewalk, yeah, help her fucking drive away to run into Morris. But Gemma still could have smiled.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

That's so true. We didn't even need that whole rigamaro with the gun.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

We didn't.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Where did that glass come from, by the way? While she's running out.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Her imagination, Sean, as it turns out.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

How convenient. She's barefoot.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Absolutely. I do wonder what your take is, though, on the car accident that we finally see.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Ooh. It's interesting because we get this kill over the course of time and kind of out of order, right? We immediately go to just the visual of what happened and the aftermath, and knowing that he, you know, this car crash happened and he's in the car and his head is like split open and dead, right? That's like the first flashback, if you will, that we really get of that moment or that night or what happened. And then it progressively just gives you a couple more flashbacks that kind of really dive into like what led to that car crash and what was happening. But if we include all of that, then it was very intense, not because of really the kill itself. It was just super intense because of how just chaotic and crazy this car ride was, and just this toxic relationship where this dude is like really hot and cold, man. Like he's really just like egging her on and mocking her. And I think he did a great job in what he was portraying. Obviously, we know he got a lot of that from Daddy because there was a lot of Jack Nicholson in that performance, I gotta say.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

There really was, and that was the ultimate homage to the Shining. The director has been very open about it. There are a lot of articles about it. We'll link some down in the show notes as well. But holy shit, fuck that guy. Yeah. He had it coming.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

And I think that's what makes this movie way more interesting because when you look at everything that she's been through, there's a car accident. I think she's made to feel a lot of self-blame, a lot of guilt. And all that is shared in the public is that this was a car accident in which he lost his life, and there were questions about her sobriety and her stability. We had pictures of her going viral before this accident. So it paints it to be, was she even driving? Was did it they painted it to be like he had this tragic loss of life almost as like an innocent bystander, as if he was in the passenger seat after her meltdown within the confines of this car where there's no one around except for the two of them, you realize the influence he must have had on her, the effect he must have had on her, and how really they brought out the worst in each other. Yes, she absolutely grabbed the wheel, but this man was doing coke, driving a car, speeding on a winding road. He's not innocent here. He's also being a massive fucking asshole.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, there's no innocence. It was a a very bad toxic time.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Absolutely. And there's a lot of literal death here, but then when you think about the figurative death of who she used to be, when you think of the trauma that she's now living with, again, the first mile movie was all about cyclical generational trauma, and this one isn't that. This is really just within her own mental health. Yeah, this is really just everything that she's experienced and lived through, and you know, her having a second lease on life now from this accident and also with her sobriety. But this isn't her help not helping her mom and her mom uh maybe committing suicide, but we find out that she was actually disoding and Rose didn't help her. This isn't along the line of that generational trauma. This is a woman who has gone through something absolutely horrific, who maybe also was already contending with her own mental health issues.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

And that's where I think this is really interesting. That one in particular, I think I thought was very poignant.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

Yeah, it's a lot for sure. This movie really shows you and gives you a lot of different emotions for sure. It's tough.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

It is, and that's exactly why I hate this fucking ending for killing her. This is why I hate the ending.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

You know, actually, Ari is probably aligned with you on that. She in general just doesn't like endings where there isn't some kind of resolution, you know what I mean? So there's that, but I think it's tough to see this character die because you're really kind of rooting for her a lot more than you might have rooted for anyone in the first film. It's not even that I didn't want her to die that made me have this love-hate relationship with this ending, it's really just maybe what the kill means that I just can't get behind. You know what I mean? It just seems like it's too large scale. What's gonna happen now? She obviously turned around, she's got the smile, and she like smashes that mic into her eye. What twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand, however many people were in attendance at this arena.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Plus everyone who's there watching her tear herself apart with their phones recording.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Right, like this is gonna impact tons of people. These videos are gonna go viral. What happens now? Because this entity cannot go to everybody. Is it just gonna choose whoever and really maybe it's really not as big as we think, and it's just gonna end up being just one unlucky person out of the fucking millions of people that maybe saw this shit unfold? Or will it just take its time and only go through these million people before it moves on to the next batch of people? Like to me, it just seemed like, why are we making it this big of a thing? Why isn't it a little bit more intimate? I like the pop aspect of the movie itself, but I didn't really care for it to go in the direction of hitting the masses of audience at like a show.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, see, I liked how big it was. It felt really dramatic, and it felt like it really turned that shit up a few notches.

SPEAKER_06 39:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

But I would have preferred an ending in which she won.

SPEAKER_06 39:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

She's been battling her demons this whole fucking movie. And especially with Naomi Scott's performance, you care so much about her. And yes, I get it, it's the point. She can't escape. There's no escaping this entity. Yeah. Yeah. We think about how many stars have had the same fate. We think about, you know, granted, Brittany Spears is in a very different place, but we think about Brittany Spears and everything that she's experienced and how her life was shaped by so many people. We think about Winning Houston. We think about Amy Winehouse, all of whom were served as inspirations for this film. And you just want to see someone win.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Not every story has to end in tragedy. And again, I realize that I was over here fucking really enjoying the ending of Terrifier 3, which is a big old down note. So maybe it's hypocritical, but fuck, I just thought Naomi Scott's performance was so incredible, and I'm just such a fan of Sky Riley. Yeah. And I just wanted her to win. I wanted her to fucking win so badly.

SPEAKER_04 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Which again makes me like the movie more. So it's a love-hate relationship. It's a great ending, but it's a fucking terrible ending. Yeah. Because damn it, I just want it better for her.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

It's true. I don't think you're wrong by any means. I think that it's just what you said. Like they really build this character really, really well. You have a lot of empathy for this character. You really want to see this character succeed. Yes, it's the whole smile of it all. Like it's just as depressing as the first one, right? Like, we know we're not, we're just not getting a good resolution here. And you're right, like it does depict a lot of shit that happens to a lot of you know big stars. We see it a lot with people in media, right? Whether it's like singers or actors or whatever, and you've mentioned some that directly maybe influence this film, but it also represents a lot, and we see this in real life with other people. Like we've seen it if we're translating it more into like rock and stuff, like Kurt Cobain. We've seen it with Lane Staley, we've seen it with a lot of classic rock stars too. Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Janice Joplin. You know what I mean? Like there's just this crazy thing where you know you have all this stress, and it really just like you have just this overwhelming sense to please people, right? You're put on a stage and you have to perform, and it's people telling you how to live every second of your life, and you've got nowhere to go, nowhere to hide. It's a mental like breakdown all the time. You're just high anxiety, high stress, and a lot of people just aren't able to cope with that. And it's sad because a lot of people just like to express themselves through music and through art and things like that. And when people blow it to proportions where you're just like this megastar, a lot of people spiral downward, and we see the demise of a lot of people, and a lot of these people just don't live long, and that's real.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Yeah, I also think that the timing of this movie is particularly tragic with Liam Payne just passing away. Yeah, former One Direction member. And crazy. Listen, we're not gonna sit here and fucking speculate on the details of any of that. Like none of us are entitled to that information. It's just a horrific and devastating loss of life. When you think about this movie's portrayal of it, it's like holy shit. And that's the thing that makes you more sad watching her whole story, because even Stone Cold Sober, nobody around her believes her.

SPEAKER_06 42:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

And she feels so isolated and so alone this entire time. It's just so fucking sad.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

It's also what makes this movie super impactful. What I also think added to this feeling of sadness, this feeling of tension. It has to be the score. And I know there's a lot to love about this film. The cinematography is top-notch. Some of the scenes really are beautifully shot. I loved some of the upside-down shots that we got. I think they were really great in this movie. The gore looks really good in this movie. You know, we saw the faceplate, we saw the self-induced stabbings, we saw fingers getting bitten off and demons crawling out of people's stomachs. Like we saw some cool shit and it all looked pretty fucking good. But the score, to me, is the unsung hero in this movie because the score brought this added tension to each scene, and it really built up these moments that creeped you out throughout the entire movie. Wherever this entity was, the score was right there with it. It was right there lurking in the background and slowly emerging to the surface to deliver some. Really spine tingling scares.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

See, the score was something for sure. But I want to pick up the other side of what we hear in this movie, and that it's sound design overall. Because it's the sound, it's the absence of sound, it's the muffling of sound. It's the way this is underlined and punctuated with music, and her music in particular. I love the way they manipulate sound in this movie. And I think about even one of the earlier moments of the screaming fans are cut down and muffled out when the limo door closes. And her team's commentary, so her mom and her assistant, their commentary and what they're talking about is drowned out when she puts in her headphones and music starts to play. Then that transitions to her dance recital. Even to every other fucking moment where we hear flesh just squelching. It's disgusting and terrible. But then again, carrying that sound and relying exclusively on that sound for her death. You don't see her destroy herself. You only hear her destroy herself and see the horror, the shocked horror on the thousands of faces that are watching this. And then you get to see the final product.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Such a great point.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Then you get to see the aftermath. Ah, it was so good.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yeah, it is such a great point. Even just bringing up that last little moment where we're, yeah, you're right. We're not seeing the kill, we're just hearing it. Yeah. The sound effects, fantastic. Really, just this movie as an audible whole was just really fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

It really was fantastic. And oh man, I'm even thinking about one of the moments that made me so fucking uncomfortable. So we talked about sound, we talked about her performance several times already. The moment where she's at this benefit and she's supposed to be reading from the teleprompter, it's not working, and then all of a sudden she starts to fucking spiral hard.

SPEAKER_06 45:56

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Worst thing I've ever had to listen to. For as great as the sound is in this movie, I wish I didn't have to listen to that moment. And again, incredible performance. I totally get it. I'm supposed to feel this way. But this is what I was talking about when it's a train wreck you can't look away from.

SPEAKER_05 46:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

It's people looking around awkwardly, some people trying to film her, and then she pushes that old lady off the stage. One of my favorite scenes by far. Maybe, old lady, don't fucking come up to someone who's having that kind of episode. I don't care how nurturing and motherly you're trying to be. Maybe don't go near someone like that.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah, for sure. But that teleprompter scene was just like one of those scenes that was just you were feeling every bit of how terrible that experience was for both sides of it. Like, I can't even imagine being in anyone in that room. It just felt like it would have been crazy for sure. But man, a lot of great moments in this film. I'm thinking the dressing room mirror scene, I think, was pretty good where we hear that moist, soggy noise of Lewis again, just like you know he's there because you heard the you didn't have to say that. That's the best way to describe what you're gonna hear in this movie because when Lewis comes around, it's a weird sound because it sounds like he just plops his gooey self down wherever he wants to.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

You're making him sound like old Greg. Old Greg. I'm wet Lou.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

But it is a great scene. It's the dressing room mirror scene. You hear the noise, you're looking around, the cameras panning around, the build like building the tension, and then seeing Lewis or the entity as Lewis in the mirror behind her, and you get the classic, you know, spike, the jump scare of him using his fingers to pry a smile out of her in that really quick flash. I think these are some of the moments that are very like traditional, like you know that shit's going down, like you expect things to happen, it's building the tension, but it builds the tension so well that you just feel creeped out before the thing even happens. So then you may not jump, and this is what I was talking about. But then when you are feeling all of that and you get the really spiky jump scare, it still just kind of gives you a little thrill, you know?

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Mm-hmm. Let me tell you what did not give me a little thrill.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Where she's at this signing and this meet and greet for her fans.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Oh, the meet and greet, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Sean, we saw part of this moment in the trailer. The little girl, super fucking creepy. We get it. What we didn't see, and maybe there's another trailer version out of it, but I did not see Alfredo. Yeah. Why the fuck does someone who look like he has an infectious disease get that close to this starling?

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Way too close for comfort.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Oh my gosh. Okay, Sean, you have the most amazing skin. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 48:52

You're dead, dude.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

No, disgusting, get away. You look like he smelled terrible. Yes. And this is what I was talking about the vulnerable moments. You really just open yourself up for literally anybody to fucking come by. And you see the wide range of people that she's interacting with, people who love her art, people who this you can tell that these moments fill her cup, but also that's pressure. There's people that she doesn't want to let down. People who also don't know exactly everything that she's been through. So she's probably feeling like, wow, you adore me, but do I even deserve this? Do I really deserve this fandom? There's a lot there, and it's very nuanced in her performance. But to go from that, and then to see that motherfucker's stained underwear on her floor.

SPEAKER_06 49:42

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

And then he's buttassed naked, thank God. The lights went out before we could see him full frontal.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

That's so true. Oh my god. I was just about to say that's probably one of the more disgusting moments of the film, but also kind of a good scene. You know what I mean? I loved the start of her playing the piano. It was kind of a cool song, right? Gives you like this really chill vibe, and then it abruptly stops with the bottle breaking, and then you start to find Alfredo's clothes laid out over the floor, and you're looking at the clothes, but you don't expect to see the shit stained tidy whiteys. Like you're not expecting for that to happen, but you get it.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

So why was it green almost? It was discolored. I wish it was just shit. That would make more sense.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

There's there's something going on there. The guy needs maybe some gut health shots or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

He needs a lot. He needs a lot. There's a lot happening with Alfredo.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Somebody help Alfredo. But yeah, you get that shot. But then once you get past that, the hallway scene that you're talking about, thank God we don't see Alfredo nude full frontal, but the lights go out in the hallway. You know he's down there or something's down there. And it's just the okay, let me I want to tap into like childhood fears, right? Because this is kind of like what kids fear when you're like maybe having to go like turn the light off in the basement and run up the stairs kind of thing, because you always expect something to be chasing you right behind you, and that's exactly what this fucking shit was, and it was really creepy.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Oh my gosh, okay. So, Sean, childhood fears. The room that I am currently in right now used to be my brother's room that they shared when I was growing up. This room is off of a hallway.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

It's a very narrow hallway. At the end of the hallway is my bedroom. Very close. It's like only a couple steps. But when I was younger, there used to be this thing of A, they was fucking scared the shit out of me with there's the a man in the attic, because the attic entrance, a black Christmas, is right above my bedroom door. But then it's like, who has to be the last one to turn off the light?

SPEAKER_06 51:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

And then you run down this fucking hallway.

SPEAKER_06 51:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

I don't think this was ever done to me, because I think I was just so young in comparison to my siblings, but they were very close in age, and I'm fairly certain there were times when my oldest brother would hide in his room and then try to trip my sisters as they either trip or grab their ankles or their feet as they're running down the hall to get to the room. Oh gosh. Terrible.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Siblings can be so cruel, but it sounds hilarious. Yeah. I mean, I'm telling you, one way or another, everyone's felt that kind of fear. You know what I mean? And I think that's what makes this moment really effective.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

It was also effective when we're back in her place, and then see the Suspiria synchronized scaring dancers.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

Oh my gosh. The spook troop. Dude, these things were fucking weird. How they kind of formed as like one extension being that was creepy, and then yeah, as they were just slowly moving along with her as she's moving through the house, really fucked up, really intense the way they all just grabbed her and started like jumping all over her and shit. What a crazy moment!

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Yeah, it felt and you know, the end of this movie when we talked about it in the scale of it, that feels like patient zero zombie apocalypse. Holy shit, big outbreak. Yeah. That's the ending of this movie. This also felt like she's being swarmed by zombies. It did. But then, ooh, when we have the sound and then the sight of her scalp being ripped off her head, where she used to pull it out herself.

SPEAKER_05 53:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

And then for this thing to shove its fist and its arm down her fucking throat, and then we get that flashback. Then we see what really happened in that car.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

It's a lot 'cause things just need to stay out of people's mouths. Her mouth was open real wide for those Voss water bottles the whole fucking time, and I couldn't imagine the water getting in there, and now all of a sudden there's a fucking arm in there. And again, yes, this is the smile thing. We had a whole fucking beast crawling in this bitch's mouth at the end of the last movie.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

That's what it does, man.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

But w leave mouths alone. Between this and the rat tube from Terrifier 3.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

I don't know why this thing likes to go through someone's mouth, but it definitely likes to deep throat that shit.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

So Adamandeve.com.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

My mouth is sore just looking at it because my jaw gets locked open. I can't even eat tall food, Sean. I can't eat hamburgers that are that high. I have to squish them down.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

It's invasive, it's a violation. A straight violation. All right. Definitely pretty crazy. Definitely hard to really take in. But I gotta talk also about the sleepover scene with Gemma in bed because I also really enjoyed that scene. And this scene kind of like comes right after the one that I was talking about with the whole Alfredo shit-stained tidy-whiteys because she gets chased down the hallway just to try to run to get out of the apartment, only to open the door to Gemma, and then everything's back to normal. And then later on, you're going into the sleepover scene where she's having a fucking conversation with Gemma and shit starts to get weird again. Shit's starting to get weird, and things are not right, and we've got the slow open of the eyes and giving us that evil fucking grin. It's creepy as fuck. And then all of a sudden you wake up and it's morning and it's trippy as fuck. And like, so I now that we reflect on this movie, there's all these moments that really take her in and out of, I guess, reality, if you will. I guess maybe that's what we're meant to interpret. I don't know if that's what you're getting from it, but you know, like now we have all these significant moments throughout the film where some crazy shit's happening, and then she snaps out of it, and it's like completely different thing that's happening. Like all of a sudden, smile too just fucks with your head.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Okay. You talked about running away from Alfredo and running straight into Gemma. Did that remind you of a particular classic horror movie?

SPEAKER_02 55:57

I feel like we've seen that in a lot of horror movies. I feel like we've seen that in Halloween.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

We have, but I'm thinking back to one of the earliest ones, the original When a Stranger Calls.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Oh, yeah, no, you're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

And it's particularly with the shadows. And I remember feeling that when I watch this movie because again, this is a moment where you realize there's something else in the house with you. There's some shadowy figure that's approaching you. Yeah. Just like our main girl in that movie. She sees the killer's shadow walking down the stairwell because he's coming down for her, opens the door, someone else is there. Fucking great.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

Yeah. Didn't think about that one right off the bat. But there are a number of horror movies that have played off of this, and this one definitely felt cool. Some of these scenes that we get are really kind of layered, man. It's almost like we're in some inception level shit when we're watching some of this movie unfold. It's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

It really is. But I think how wild this movie is, again, relies completely on Sky Riley. What a leading lady for this movie.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

I mean, I don't even know if we can do it justice. You really have to just watch her performance because you're really watching her depict a character that's really just gone through so much shit, so much trauma, not in a good place mentally. I don't even know how. I was just thinking about this on my way home from work today, and I'm like, I don't even know if I could act this kind of shit out. You know what I mean? Like, this is some hard shit to really just kind of like just get into this character and deliver. And kudos to her because you kind of feel every bit of it. And I think you have to watch it to really experience it. I don't even know how to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Yeah, dude. She's magnetic and she's powerful. And I even think back to when we really get to know her story with the Drew Barrymore show interview. This was a really brilliant way to give us Sky Riley's lore.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

That is true.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

And it was also devastating then to see how she's continuously pushed and pushed and pushed by her mom.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

Dude.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

And then the conflict that we get later on. And then you can obviously see, like, at some points the mom is making kind of good points. Like, God damn, she must have sacrificed everything. Or is she just a show mom?

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Right. It's so hard because you're right. Like, there are some things that she says, but I feel like they're few and far between because the more you look at what's happening, the more I feel like she's really pushing Skye to just continue to like deliver on these expectations without giving her room to really relax or to really like decompress or to really just like maybe even fully recover from all the shit that she's already been in. They're putting her on this giant stressful world fucking tour, and she has to go all to these meet and greets and all these different things and charity events and stuff, and it's just like, man, maybe just care for her well-being before we care about making the next like million.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

Yeah, 100%. And it's interesting to see a lot of different types of abuse in here. Substance abuse, yes, but we also have emotional abuse.

SPEAKER_05 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

But also when you think of addiction and just like what they're talking about with her and like falling into drugs, it feels like in a lot of ways is her mom addicted to a very particular lifestyle.

SPEAKER_06 59:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

And she's like really just again numbing herself with everything else that's happening and just completely ignoring her daughter's needs.

SPEAKER_02 59:34

Yeah. It's complicated. I think the way that this movie really goes down is that like you start to question what parts that you saw were actually real and what parts were just what the entity is giving you, because we very well could be just watching, you know, the entity's version of her mom really fucking with her, and it's really not her mom. Most of the time that we see her mom, if not all of the time, it's really, really hard to tell just based on the way that this movie goes, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Yeah, it's really tough. I also, though, think it's significant to consider some of the other characters in this movie, which is really more just fans, yeah, or the background characters of her own celebrity. So we talked about the mom and the mounting pressure to return to the stage to not disappoint everybody, but Skye has so many stakeholders in the spectacle of her life.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

It's from the people who are backing her financially to her team, her employees, to her fans, to anybody who is employed by these show dates being put on. She is everybody's bearing witness to her downfall. And even at a bar, people aren't just giving her the space to exist, they're getting in her face immediately. Yeah. Putting phones in her face immediately. And I think that is a really honestly like super insidious character in the movie, is just the rest of the fucking world.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Yeah. It's just having to deal with that shit. And it's fucked. I mean, that that's what sometimes you have to think about, you know, and I think about it a lot. Like, I've seen a lot of high caliber celebrities in places, but you don't want to like bum rush them. Like the way I think about it is like this person really probably just wants to be chilling, right? This person really probably wants to just be going to this store or just trying to do this errand or just trying to have a fucking meal. You know what I mean? Without having all these people come up to them and ask for a picture and an autograph and really invade their space and invade their privacy, right? And we wouldn't do that to any random person, but we feel like it's okay to do it to this person because they happen to do something that puts them in front of a lot of people for a living, you know what I mean? And so I think most people don't think about that kind of thing, and they just feel like they need to get that picture so that they can put on their story to get people to get likes that they saw this person and it was really cool, you know what I mean? And not thinking about that person's emotions. So yeah, that is arguably uh another antagonist in the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah, you really cannot clock in and out of your own celebrity.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

I know we've talked a lot about how fucked up so many aspects of this movie are, but I really want to dig into what I feel is the worst part of this movie. Sean, it was the same thing in smile. Why is the entity the worst looking fucking part of this movie? This bitch with the bug eyes, are you fucking kidding me? This thing looked terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Okay. I actually didn't think that was gonna be brought up, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Oh, I was saving it. I was saving it. I fucking hated it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

It looked so goofy compared to how do you have such incredible gore that looks so great? Honestly, even the entity from the first movie looked better than this shit with the big fucking bug eyes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

I don't know which one looked better. I don't even want to compare the two because they both look terrible. You're absolutely right. I just tried to look past it because I feel like it was such a smaller scale moment for me. I don't know why. Like it, I just got past that moment so much more in this one than I did the first one because I remember watching Smile One and how that all played out, and I was like, you know what? I really think that that just kind of ruined it for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:20

It's awful, it is legitimately awful. Like we talk about movies where they reveal the big bad monster, or you get to see the look of something, and then all of a sudden it's just ruined. Yeah, we never needed to see this. This thing takes the form of so many faces.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Yeah, we don't need it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:36

I never actually have to see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

We never need to see it, like it just doesn't need to show itself.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

Mm-hmm. You can't tell me it's not possible to pull off a better-looking fucking creature design either.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

That's oddly enough, not what I feel like the worst part of the movie is for me. I think they're really outside of that, there's really only two other things that bothered me with this film. I don't really know which one I would consider to be the worst part of this film, the ending of the movie, but not for what we talked about, right? Not for the kill itself, or and maybe it is the message, maybe it's just the logistics of how this works now and and where do we go from here. And I feel like just wasn't the best way to play it out for me. But that being said, I also feel like it could have been whether or not we actually needed to edit things out of the film or we needed to shorten some of the moments that we lingered in too much. I just felt like the film needed to be a little bit shorter. Those are it's kind of a toss-up for me. But I think I do want to mention what I feel like I don't know if this would be like the best part of the film by any means, but it's one of the cooler parts of the film, and it's one of the parts of the film that I think took from the original film and I think did it way better. And I think you had the moment in the first film where we're talking to the therapist, and then there's that slight reveal that the therapist is not the therapist, and that was kind of a cool scene. I think I remember that being one of my favorite scenes in the first film, and this one really did that and did that even better because it was such a larger scale reveal that everything was fucking bullshit at that point. Like you have been fucking played for a really long time, like you have been playing through this story, and you're just this puppet, right? And it was the same type of reveal in just a different way, and it hit so much harder. Being in the car with your best friend, your fucking best friend that like you think you're safe with, that you're trying to protect, and saying, Don't don't come with me, like let's pull over. And then to find out you're getting called from your friend, and you realize that whoa, who's in this car? Here we go. It's getting fucking weird again.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Not only that you're getting called from your friend, but that your friend hasn't forgiven you, that you haven't maken amends, right? That you haven't reconciled, she hasn't gotten to hear nothing. Heartfelt apology that you had for her. Granted, none of that shit was real because surprise, surprise, motherfucker, that was all a joke, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

Yeah. And so it's just crazy. So maybe it's not that that's specifically the best part of the movie, that moment. I think, though, the best part of the movie, because I think it needs to be said since we're talking about worse parts of the movie, is that it's just I loved how cerebral this one was in comparison to the first one. I loved how thought invasive this movie was and and how psychological it got. And it was, it just made it feel a little bit more layered than the first one did. And I think that's what this type of formula needs for it to really stand out. So kudos to Smile 2 because it did everything that Smile 1 wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Yeah, honestly, Sean, I could not agree with you more, and that's exactly why I'll be watching this movie again. But I won't be watching the first one. Maybe I would give it one more glance to determine just how much of it is actually necessary to append at the beginning of this movie. But that's it. This movie is the one where if anyone ever says, let's fucking watch Smile, I'm putting this shit on. I don't give a fuck if they meant the first one.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Smile to Supremacy.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

I'm with you. I definitely want to watch this one again. I'll probably catch this one again whenever it comes out to stream. And it's just funny that that's the way that you put it because I literally said, like, I would say I'd watch both Smile and Smile 2 back to back, like I would a lot of franchises, but I kind of just want to watch Smile 2 again. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:43

Exactly. And I can't wait to really hear everyone else's take on the rewatchability of the whole franchise. And if anyone would else would like us prefer to watch Smile 2 instead, but for now, there you have it, folks. Smile 2 has earned a universal slash. Now we certainly had a robust discussion here, but it doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Yeah, if you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by subscribing through Apple Podcasts or visiting patreon.com slash hackerslash where you can actually enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B sides, which are free sides for the spooky season, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:27

And if you found yourself smiling during this episode, give us a s and leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcast. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there. Our thanks once again to Adam and Eve for making this episode possible. We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, real friends are hard to come by.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:45

Ride or die, bitch. Alright, so this movie really made me think, you know, with all the creepy smile action that we get in this movie, you know, and it's abundant. It made me think, what were some of the creepiest smiles that you can maybe recall from some horror movies from the past?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

You know, that is such a great question, and I feel like I'm going to have to really dig deep in my memory. Off-rip, as underwhelmed as I was with the first smile movie, it has some really fucking creepy smiles.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

But I think Jack Nicholson, obviously, super famous, and we had his son Ray Nicholson in this. Jack Nicholson has some fucked up smiles in The Shining.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:34

Dude, Jack for sure has one of the most iconic, creepy smiles in cinematic history.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

Anthony Perkins psycho.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Anthony Perkins Psycho, I think, might be in like the top three, probably of all time, because it was just such it hit. You know what I mean? It hit.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:53

Absolutely. And it was such a grin. It wasn't even like a disgusting looking smile. It wasn't just I don't even know how to put it, but it was just the fact that he like slowly looks at the camera and stares straight into your soul and then smiles.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

Right. It's just this handsome little young lad just smiling into the camera, but you know that this is not okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Handsome little young lad.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:16

You know. I think also Regan from The Exorcist definitely has that moment where between her and the priest, there's that crazy ass smile. That's a huge moment for sure. It's definitely good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:30

I'm thinking, well, shit, even penny wise in the new it's, right? Like, there's some evil drooly grins going on in that film.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

Yeah, I feel pretty dumb for not naming that fucking one first.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

I actually wasn't even thinking about it until literally 20 seconds ago, and I'm like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

Conic smile. Hiya, Georgie.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:51

Hiya, Georgie. Oh, so good. Definitely. Hannibal Lecter.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

I think there was a moment, if I recall, from Silence of the Lambs where there's some evil grinning action from Hannibal Lecter, little diabolical, devious cannibal boy.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

And you know, it's not even so much that it's like a truly creepy smile, so much as it's, you know, he's a cannibal. So it's like, what are you smiling about, sir?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

Right. He's smiling because he knows like he's one step ahead of somebody, you know? He's just that kind of dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

Oh, evil dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

When they become deadites and they're just like fucking giggling.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:26

Maybe it's not like a single frame that I can have in my mind, but I just remember the sheer glee with which they were operating.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Yeah, just maniacal, fucking crazy, zombified people smiling and heckling you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

Hear me out. It's not exactly a smile, but Angela Baker and Sleepaway Camp at the ending.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:44

Oh. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

It's not really a smile.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

It's like a scream. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

But it's smile adjacent.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

Yeah, I think that counts for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

Thank you for being generous with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

I think it counts.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

Recent history, Pearl.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

Pearl.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

This is easier than I thought. I thought when you first asked this question, holy shit, there's no way I'm gonna remember any of these smiles.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

It's all coming to me now.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

It's all coming back to me now.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

Pearl is a good one, actually. What about when Freddie taunts Tina, man? There is a good smile there.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

That was really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:17

I like that moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Art the clown, terrifier. Oh. Any of them. Oh. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

The dude's always smiling. Like you just pick any any shot of art somewhere in any of the terrifiers, and it's gonna be great. It's gonna be gold.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Really, one of the earliest moments that we see him smile when he's dead ass fucking serious in the pizza parlor, and then all of a sudden he's super happy. He's just smiling and giggling. It's like, sir, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

What's happening here? You're having too much fun, I think. Let me ask you this. All right, do we think that our boy Michael ever smiled underneath that mask?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

Wow. Holy shit. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:57

No, I don't think a single time. I think maybe young Michael maybe smiled, but even then it's hard to say because in the TV edition of Halloween, we just get him sulky in Smith's Grove Sanitarium, and then we see before that he's unmasked and he's just like, holy shit, I just killed my sister. Yeah. So, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. I'm sure Jason smiled.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

Yeah, Jason had to have smiled at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

You pause any of those fucking movies just right when he's unmasked, and all of a sudden he's there smiling.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

Oh man. Yeah. What else can you do, man? He just had a bad go, so you just gotta smile.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:32

Okay. Well, someone that we both saw very recently at Halloween Horror Nights, the grabber from the black phone.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:39

Oh yeah. Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

Not a great smile. It is a mask. It is a mask. For sure. But it hits. And he also had different masks, so there are different expressions, but the one where he is smiling, very creepy. Don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:53

That is super creepy.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:56

That is super creepy.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

I'm surprised Nicolas Cage is not someone that really comes to mind as having a creepy smile. I mean, he generally has a creepy smile, but in terms of some of his horror movies, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:07

Yeah, but he hasn't done a whole lot of creepy smiling in his horror movies, has he?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:11

No, it's just the bees, the bees, the bees, the bees. I also haven't seen all his stuff though.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Yeah, I haven't seen all the horror movies he's in. He's does a he's a very busy.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

Wait, wait, did he s smile with blood all over his face in Mandy?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:26

Ooh, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

I remember like a shocked look, but I don't remember a smile. Yeah, I'm sure our listeners will let us know.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

Yeah, we'll find out one way or another for sure. There was the pale lady in Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

You know, Sean, I'm gonna admit that movie's a fucking fever dream for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:43

It's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

I saw that shit when it came out, wasn't that impressed with it. Right. I remember the big bloated woman with red light, and that looked really cool. But then I also think about the movie like The Gallows. The gallows is something that I probably should have enjoyed. There was a lot of red light, didn't fucking like it. It's forgettable to me. Scarier stories to tell in the dark deserve better.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

It deserved better, and you know what? Like, it's just one of those things where I think a good majority of people remember seeing that book in their book sale in their fucking elementary school book sales, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

Like The Scholastic Book Fair, my dude. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:18

Yeah, man. I used to grab that book and that book was scary as shit, man. That even just the cover creeped me out as a kid. So, like when the movie came out, I had high hopes. Yeah, I had just had high hopes for it, and it didn't hit quite as well as I wanted it to. It had some moments, but I always find it like as I'm trying to figure out what do I want to watch tonight, and I'm like, nah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Yeah, see, that's the problem there. We need a video from you that's just top five most underwhelming films.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:47

We'll have to put one together for sure, because I'm sure I can come up with five.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

Dang. Well, there are a lot of creepy ass smiles out there, but you know, there is the whole curse of this film, you know, and there's a lot of cursed films, and actually, in my opinion, there's some pretty good cursed films out there. I don't know how you feel about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:06

I know that we talked well, we talked in another episode about films that had cursed productions when we're talking about the omen, but this cursed film genre, I'm gonna be honest, my dude, it's not my thing. There are some good ones. I'm not gonna deny that. I think this is an example of a good one. But I said it in the previous smile episode. It's just okay, it's the ring. We make it a smile instead of a girl calling out of a fucking well.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:30

Yeah, okay. I don't know. The whole seven days, it's just I'm with you. It's like winter peat. It's very similar in that kind of sense for sure. But I think even just bringing up the ring is is interesting because the ring is arguably probably one of the best cursed films, I would say. Like, it's definitely well known. But I'm wondering, does the ring even make sense today? Like, there's no way that the ring could even make sense today because it's like the whole thing is you have to make a copy of the tape and whatnot. And if we know we're going off of internet videos, like that thing would be multiplied a million times over. She'd have to redirect her targets constantly, man. She'd be out of she'd probably we'd probably break Samara at this point. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think the rings got shit on us in this age.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:20

Unless she can duplicate herself the way people were duplicating those tapes. You're right. I didn't think about it. I thought about it from the perspective of holy shit, we're all fucked. But then you thought about mechanically, this bitch can't keep up with us. She's gonna be backlogged for days.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:35

Dude, I just set a bot to recreate videos constantly.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:39

Dude, yeah, she's gonna she's gonna have to fucking like hire her own fucking bureaucratic cabinet to sort out this fucking deadline, these deadlines on these people.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:49

Yeah, I don't know if it works.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

All right, so Mario, you have the Thompson family at two. Yeah. But by 2 15, you have to be over a thousand miles for the Johnson family.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:59

Yeah, it just seems very unrealistic. Nonetheless, very impactful cursed film.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:05

What are some of the the ones that you think are your favorites?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

Okay, so ooh, there's the what's it's the it's another internet one. It's I think Pulse, but not the American Pulse. The original Japanese Pulse.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:21

I don't think I've seen Pulse.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:23

Well, either one?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:24

No, never. I've seen the Japanese version of the Ring.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:28

Right, okay. And that one for me, like if you like Ring You versus The Ring, who I think they're both pretty good, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:38

I found myself preferring the original.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:41

And also Dead by Daylight ported over the original for its killer, and it was fucking it was great. It was a hit. That bitch is scary as fuck in that game.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:51

Yeah. I never played it. Sounds like it would be for sure, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:55

Oof. You haven't played Dead by Daylight?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:57

No, not really.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Oh my god. Sean, do I need to bring my PlayStation up?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:00

I mean, uh hey, one of these nights for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:03

Yeah, I got a whole week off, man. I'm sure you got some time off at some point.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:08

Yeah, I got some time off for sure. We'll have to make that happen. But no, pulse. So there's obviously there's an American one. Don't watch that one. That one's trash.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:17

Noted.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I mean, watch it and tell and you can whatever, but watch the Japanese one. I think it came out in like 2001. It is definitely much scarier, much more effective than the American version. Just the way the movie looks, I think, is creepy as hell. There's a lot of atmosphere in the movie, but it's basically another internet movie, but it's basically about the world of the dead is too crowded, so they're finding ways to get into the world of the living, and they're going through like internet sh it's like this, it's crazy. I don't even think I could do it justice by trying to remember how to explain everything, but definitely you gotta check it out. It's a great cursed film. If you haven't checked it out, watch that one. Just don't watch the American one, or do, but watch the Japanese one.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

Okay, okay. Well, I'll see your pulse and raise you one that's again underwhelming. One missed call.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:09

Ooh, okay. I'm trying to remember all of that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

I remember thinking that one was better than it was. And then I watched it for a podcast episode. Actually, I don't even know if we actually recorded that. I'll have to fact-check myself real quick because it might be that we got around to needing to record it and then pivoted movies at the last possible second. But I remember thinking, holy shit, I don't like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:34

I definitely don't remember a whole lot from that, but oof.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:37

Yep, sure enough, we didn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

Well, maybe we you know you gotta come around then.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:42

I don't know if it does. Don't know if it does. One that I haven't seen though, and I don't know if it's exactly a cursed movie, but you can maybe you can tell me, drag me to hell.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

Yeah, I guess you can call it a curse. It's like, you know, you get by the gypsy or the witch or whatever, you get some kind of hex, some curse, some kind of thing. Yeah, I would call it a cursed film. Ha, you know, we're crossing the area of like cursed and haunted, you know, supernatural. It kind of blurs the lines in that one, but it definitely counts on either end, you know what I mean? Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:14

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:14

Definitely. It's kind of campy too. I I think that one was kind of fun. I haven't seen it in a long time. I'm just remembering that the witch itself or whoever it was just felt really campy.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:23

Yeah, I've never seen it. Ooh, great one. It follows.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:27

Yeah, it follows. That's actually what I was gonna say when you were comparing the Smile franchise to the Ring, because obviously It Follows is basically also what Smile is doing, just in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:40

Yeah, but I think it's just better. I think the idea of it being more of like I know it's not exactly supposed to be like an STD, but I think that dynamic adds something really interesting to it. I think the way that whole story was approached, again, really interesting. I'm really anxious to see what the hell sequel's gonna look like for that, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:00

But is there one coming out?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:02

I believe so.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:02

Well, I think I did see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

It follows sequel.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:06

It follows it continues to follow. They follow. Okay. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

Yeah, Mike Monroe says it follows sequel script is bigger and darker and more fucked up. Okay, I'll drop a link in the show notes to that episode, or I'll drop a link in the show notes to that article.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:21

Yeah, I'm just thinking about the whole situation because you have the whole, you know, you can pass it on to somebody, right? Like the whole STD thing that you're bringing up, you can pass it on to somebody, but if that doesn't work out, it's coming right back for you. So it's actually like just kind of fucked up. Like once you kind of encounter this thing or you're a part of this thing, like you're kind of just looking over your shoulder the rest of your life, you know what I mean? Like you just never know.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:49

Yeah, you really are. And in a way, and I can't wait for us to start talking about Salem's lot and then coming up soon, it's kind of like vampirism.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:00

You just pass that shit down, but once the maker makes their meets their end, it's like, you know, it's cause something's coming back for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:06

Something for sure. Okay. We just we actually did one not too long ago, Sinister.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:13

That's definitely a cursed film.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:15

That's okay, that's a better one. That's one of the better ones for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:18

That's definitely up there with the it's a slow burn, but it's definitely a a pretty decent cursed film kind of dealio going on. Could we count even our newer Netflix trilogy, Fear Street? Or I think you kind of I mean it's kind of like a curse kind of on the town, kind of.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like the scale of it, okay, great curse film, great hex film, great you're all doomed, your generations and your bloodlines are divided, and you'll have the rich and you'll have the poor. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But I think where I struggle with the idea of a curse is that there's curse films in that sense, the wolf man is a curse.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:01

Uh, okay. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:03

Lots of great curse things. But this, you have so many days to live, but you have to solve the mystery before you expire. That's the kind of curse shit that I'm not into.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:14

Okay, you're not into the you got a uh shelf life curse here.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:18

Yeah, I'm not into the expiration date curse.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:21

Best buy this.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:23

Give me something that gives me a long life of suffering.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:26

Gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:27

You're yeah, transform me into a wolf every fucking full moon. Sick.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:32

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:33

I got seven days to figure some shit out, bitch. I don't want a fucking seven-day deadline. Stressful. Which I guess makes it more entertaining, I suppose, and more it's supposed to, you know, feel scarier, blah, blah, blah. But no, it becomes the same movie then. It becomes the same fucking movie every time.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:49

I get you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:49

Except for it follows. It follows a little bit more interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:52

Well, one that definitely does not have a seven-day shelf life is The Grudge.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:00

Yeah, you know, I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't remember that movie very well.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:06

I know it has Sarah Michelle Geller, and here's why. I like I disliked it so much, I blocked it out from my memory because that movie came out what, like, 2004, yeah, 2005.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:16

I was in high school, and I remember that being the first movie that I ever pulled a cell phone out during because I was so fucking bored.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:23

Wow, really?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:24

It wasn't long. I pulled it out and I was like, oh, okay, well, this feels rude to everybody else, and I continued watching the movie, and I just remember disliking it. I don't remember why I disliked it. I really do not. Maybe 34-year-old me, 20 years later, will watch that and think, holy shit, this is great. I was a fucking idiot kid. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:43

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:44

But I don't really remember it very much.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:46

It definitely hasn't been that long since I've seen it because I've definitely revisited The Grudge. I've watched Jew on and all that stuff. But and I'm not saying it's a fantastic film, but I don't think it's like terrible, but I also has been a long time since I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:01

I think it deserves for me to rewatch it just because I love Sarah Michelle Geller so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:05

But also I do remember the let me see if I can still do this.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:13

I think we were all doing that after that movie came out.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:16

Yeah, that's what I was just about to say. We were all doing that. So I remember that movie very well just because I would literally just go into my brother's rooms and do that in the dark, you know? Fantastic time in my childhood, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:30

Yeah, that's all I fucking remember about that shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:32

Yeah. Well, you know, if nothing else, it made its mark. Listen, there's a lot of movies that involve curses, that is for sure. And there's a lot of actually cursed films. There's a whole series on Shudder right now that's about cursed films, and it goes through a whole bunch of shit like the poltergeist, the crow, the omen.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:54

Yeah. We talked about that during our omen episode B-side, and I'll try to drop a couple more links in this episode, but that was a really fucking good series.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

Yeah. I didn't realize. Maybe I read about the poltergeist of it all, but I didn't remember all the stuff in there. The crow I knew, obviously, bits and pieces. The Omen we talked about a lot already, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:19

So speaking of poltergeist, have you been watching the monsters series on Netflix? The first season it was Jeffrey Dahmer. This season it's Eric and Lyle Menendez.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:29

Oh, yeah. So I haven't watched the new season. I've seen the one about Jeffrey Dahmer, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:35

I haven't seen the one about Jeffrey Dahmer.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:37

I'm debating whether or not I want to see it. And I had started to watch the one about the Menendez brothers, but I stopped because I want to watch it with Allie. However, there was a connection that I realized because I think I put it on and then stopped it, and then things kind of kind of like auto play, whatever. At some point I wake up in the middle of the night and this shit is on. It's revealed that one of the characters Is the father of the woman who was in Poltergeist but was killed.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:06

Whoa, that's some wild shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

Yeah, her name was Dominique Dunn.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:11

Dominique Dunn. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:14

I'm going to drop a link to that in our show notes for this episode because holy shit. I remember being really fucking sad about it when I learned about it during the Poltergeist episode.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:26

But seeing this connection and then seeing how her father is on this series, I don't know. It's a wild time to think and look back of like, holy shit, the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, just rife with true crime.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:42

And obviously that's still the case today. But when you think about these high profile cases and everything that was going on, it's just like, what a time for us to be barely conscious. That's how we should have known that our generation was fucked.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:53

By that specific.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:54

Like life is just starting out. We got all this crazy shit happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:58

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:58

That was before that was even before 9 11.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:00

And there was definitely a lot of shit happening in the 90s, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Hey, Sean, maybe we're the cursed ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:07

Maybe it is us. Maybe we've been cursed all along.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:10

Holy shit.