360: Halloween: The Curse of Michael Myers (1995)

SPEAKER_08 0:04

Hold me close now, Mike Myers.

SPEAKER_07 0:12

Spooky season, greetings and salutations, happy Halloween, and welcome to Hackerslash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Tonight's tonight we bring some life back into this town. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

A total joke, a waste of time, or a slash.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

Totally killer, pun intended.

SPEAKER_07 0:35

We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, we're rating these movies for the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast, and this week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

The baby. Where's the baby?

SPEAKER_07 0:50

The classic horror connoisseur Sean Strong Wood. This week we're continuing the timeline of the shape and his relentless pursuit to strike down his bloodline.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

And if you're a patron or Apple Podcast subscriber, you'll also get to hear our B side at the end of this episode where we dive into all the terrible recasting choices that were made in some of our most beloved horror franchises.

SPEAKER_07 1:17

Now this week's film marks one of the most turbulent chapters in this iconic franchise, both on screen and behind the scenes. When last we visited this franchise, a young Jamie Lloyd looked on in horror as her masked uncle escaped, and an entire police station was massacred. What we didn't see was her abduction by the man in black who mysteriously strolled through that film and helped Michael escape. Now, six years after Michael Myers last terrorized Haddonfield, he returns in pursuit of Jamie, who is evading him with her newborn baby in toe. I'll let you do the math on that one. The production of this film is almost as infamous as Michael himself. The film underwent a chaotic development process with countless rewrites and significant studio interference. Daniel Ferrands, a lifelong fan of the series, was brought on to write the script, aiming to tie the later sequels back to the original films, while introducing new lore that could take the franchise in a bold direction. His initial script was dark, psychological, and full of intricate mythology, so much so that one executive allegedly couldn't sleep after reading it, and Donald Pleasants, reprising his role as Dr. Loomis for the final time, signed on based on that original vision. But after multiple drafts and heavy studio cuts, the final version feared far from what was originally intended. The production was played by budget cuts, forced reshoots, behind the scenes battles, all leading to a film that even many of the casting crew has disowned. The film ultimately resulted in two versions the heavily Weinstein influenced theatrical cut and the producer's cut that stayed truer to the original vision of the story. Despite all of its turmoil, the film managed to earn more than $15 million at the US box office before cementing its reputation as the second lowest grossing entry in the franchise. But does the film stand better today in 2024 than it did nearly 30 years ago? It's time to find out. This week we're talking about Halloween, The Curse of Michael Myers. Who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_02 3:09

I have not seen this one, and I think to this point this is now the only Halloween movie I have not seen, aside from the remakes, which reboots whatever you want to call them, which we're not going to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I I know it's a staple in my movie, especially during Halloween, but I truly cannot remember any of this movie at all. I watched it like it was the first time.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

I love that for you. That's great. I literally watched this movie last year, right around this fucking time, actually, because we try to watch as many Halloween movies every year in October. But you know, lately it's been kind of more like what timeline of the Halloween movies do I feel like watching, just to condense that down a bit.

SPEAKER_07 3:54

That's fair. I watch this movie multiple times every year in October. When I get down to Halloween, I always binge the entire marathon, and I do I binge the entire franchise. But it comes to the question of which timeline do I want to end Halloween on? And usually it's Halloween one leading into Halloween two as it ends right around November 1st. That seems like the perfect mix for me. I haven't watched this movie since last October, but ooh, Mac, you've never seen this before. Paul Stephen Rudd's first movie ever. What the hell were you expecting?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Well, one, I was not expecting him and his performance that we got. That's all I'll say for now. Two, though, I was expecting it to just be bad. I was expecting some of the weaker entries that you see in Friday the 13th, for instance. I was expecting that kind of quality or lack thereof. Uh, but I had no idea what to expect story-wise, because I feel like the last one ended on kind of a weird note. The last one was just a weird note all in total, but I was like, where are they gonna go from here? And I've heard a little bit about mythology from you all talking about this film, so I really wasn't sure what we were gonna get into, but I knew it was gonna be weird.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

I think weird is an understatement. Like I said, I watched this for it felt like the first time, and it didn't miss make me miss the 90s terribly. I wish that I was still there. Also, it's like a hundred degrees outside, and how crispy does that entire movie look? It just looks like a beautiful day in fall. So already I was in the movie, in my feelings, but realistically, I was not ready for what madness and weirdness this movie was. The entire time I was like, what the fuck is actually happening? And I didn't take my ADHD medicine. So I think that probably made this way, way too slow for me. But apart from that, it's a comfort movie, right? I feel like when we think of Halloween during Halloween, it's an amazing filler movie. It's something that you need to go in it with an open heart, and that's what I did for the entire hour and 45 minutes. I think it was.

SPEAKER_05 6:05

I think you know, you're talking about the fall vibes in this movie, but I think this was like the only Halloween movie, at least thus far, that was actually filmed in fall. So maybe that added to the whole ambiance of your viewing experience.

SPEAKER_07 6:17

Let me tell you what really set the stage for some ambiance though. Before Rob Zombies Halloween's, this was my least favorite Halloween. And I don't even like saying least favorite because that implies it's a favorite, but truly, in retrospect, with what we've gotten and the lengths we have gone to in this franchise, I do think least favorite is a fine qualifier for this. I struggle with this movie so much because for me, this movie has a very specific reputation based on what it does to a very specific character, and then there are two versions of this movie. I have watched both of them what feels like hundreds of times. So honestly, even the mix of lore between one version and the other, it's a complete blend for me. So I really struggle to separate my feelings for this. But going into this this time, knowing that we've gotten this now post-Halloween ends, post-Raw Zombies Halloween. Yeah, I just watched this movie last year, but it feels a little bit different this time. And after taking some time to really reflect and look back on the whole franchise, a great companion for this entire experience is this book called Taking Shape.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 7:26

By Dustin McNeil and Travis Mullins. This goes over the production and inner has interviews for the making of every single film in the franchise, leading up to I want to say this was published in 2020. So maybe up to like the 2018 Halloween. I haven't gotten to finish it yet, but there's also Taking Shape 2 that looks at the lost sequels and scripts and treatments that existed for the franchise. But going into this movie, watching it with some of the things that you learn written in this book, some of the things that you see in documentaries, I think it reframes your mind a bit. And whew, what a 90s time capsule this was. Holy shit. We have the flannel, first off. It was giving this really specific note for me of some Disney Channel original movies and just like the attire. And I don't know why it feels that way, but also the fucking butthead impersonation that we get from one of the characters in this film.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

Oh my gosh. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 8:23

Cool. Why is it that every single time I've ever fucking heard this, it never clicked in me that it was butthead, but this time it did.

SPEAKER_05 8:31

It did this time because we were all thinking it at the same time, probably. It was just the powers.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

I had so many emotions I watching this movie. I started with the what the fuck is happening right now? That was my first one. My second feeling was secondhand sadness for some of these characters. I was just like, what? Like, I want to hug them because they really have shit luck. If you watch this movie and you pay attention to the secondhand cringe that you get, there's a lot of it. There's a lot of secondhand cringe that I want to fix. I want to help every single person. So I went from what am I watching to like, I want to help everybody. And in the end, I was just like, okay, I'll leave that for the spoil zone.

SPEAKER_05 9:18

Yeah. There's a lot of feelings for sure. And I think convoluted is a big feeling in this film because I it doesn't matter if you're really watching the theatrical cut from this film, if you're watching the producer's cut from this film, either way, the overall plot concept I don't think is really a huge fan favorite. And it does feel a little convoluted, especially in the theatrical cut, which I'm sure we're going to talk about later. And I know that there was like many complications with this movie. Mainly, obviously, a big piece of that is the fate of a certain beloved character in this one, which may have been the reason that we went in the direction that we went in. I don't know. But what I will say on a positive note is that I still felt like ultimate slasher vibes in this one. Like this one definitely gave me those slasher feels, kind of a departure from the fifth installment. Like I definitely felt like Michael is back with a vengeance in this one, and there's something that just feels a little bit more menacing, like the terror was there again.

SPEAKER_07 10:25

And I think a lot of that is accredited to the fact that we had Halloween four that was almost a return to glory for Michael Myers. It's not as perfect of a movie, don't get me wrong. I'm not super jazzed on it between that and Halloween one and two. But we have the same actor from Halloween Four playing Michael Myers, giving it another shot here. So there's a little bit of that energy there. You also had a director in Halloween 5 who went completely fucking rogue and basically pissed all over the franchise. And again, this is like the evolution of me growing up as a fucking adult. Rob Zombie did some fucked up shit in this franchise. We're gonna get there eventually when we review this. But holy shit, I completely was oblivious to how much that director pissed on Michael Myers in the Halloween franchise from the cop sound effects and the silly music to the gothic Michael Myers house. Listen, this movie kind of erases a lot of that in a good way.

SPEAKER_05 11:26

Very true. But now I just want to see Michael in a flannel. You know what I mean? Buckle up, buddy. Hoodie's cool, but like some 90s grunge like plaid flannel, I'm here for that.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Oh, this mask. I think the one thing that I will say though, and it didn't actually surprise me or disappoint me, but I was expecting a level of engagement that I was gonna have with this movie, especially coming from Halloween five. And it had a little bit of those spooky scare jumps. I was like, okay, but it also brought back the gore, which I think I needed a little bit more. I gave up on it on four five. And then this one I was like, oh, okay. Like it's the second stab I needed to see. So I was it was a happy surprise because I after four and five, I was like, man, I'm gonna, this isn't even gonna be cool. And it surprised me. I liked it.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

I'll say the thing that surprised me the most. I think I'm pretty sure I watched the theatrical cut, unfortunately. It's what was on the streaming service that I was using. But the whole like mythos of it, the mythological part, that's it seems out of place and weird, like very much so here. But I could see as an idea how it could make for an interesting context for a slasher. So I wasn't opposed to the idea, right? Like make another movie, use that, go with it, doesn't belong here whatsoever. But the idea that was surprising. I was like, okay, I can see kind of like why you might want to play around with it, but just the disappointing part was that they chose to do it to a beloved franchise, just like I was upset with Halloween 3 completely throwing everything out because they didn't know exactly what they were going to do yet. But yeah, just go back to basics is really kind of the feeling I got here. It's like you don't have to try something new. Honestly, get us some new characters, get us a slightly different, I don't know, setting, perhaps, a different part of town, and then I won't be disappointed. That's all I want. Keep it simple, slash some teens.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

I think it's fair to say that they went back to basics in a way, especially with the formula of the slasher vibes of the movie and just like capturing the kills, which we'll talk about that later as well. But I also think the most surprising thing about this film is probably one of the more disappointing parts of the film as well, and it is the lore that they included in this movie. It is the overall major plot reveal or concept for this movie of trying to give us some kind of backstory that I don't think anybody really needed and anybody really wanted.

SPEAKER_07 14:02

Okay. So I thought the same thing when I first started watching this movie many years ago. There are some questions that are better left unanswered, and I thought, who the fuck are these guys coming up with this bullshit? But then something surprised me. Are you all familiar with the 1979 novelization of Halloween by Curtis Richards?

SPEAKER_05 14:22

Yes. No. This novelization I have not read it.

SPEAKER_07 14:25

You should read it. It's pretty good. I actually have the illustrated version of it that they made for Halloween's anniversary last year. It had to pre-order it, it fucking took forever. There are only 250 editions of it, and I think there might actually still be some on the website, so maybe you should go fucking check it. I think it's worth it.

SPEAKER_06 14:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 14:44

But the mythos that you see in this movie traces back to 1979, and I think that is fascinating. Because what you end up finding is that the guy who wrote this is a huge fan of Halloween and presented Mustafa Akkad with a whole Bible of Halloween. And he got rejected and kicked away from this franchise before. He didn't get his shot on his debut film here. But when they hit the revolving door of people to bring on for this film, they gave him a shot because of that. So listen, I take umbrage and some issues with the backstory that we definitely do not need, but I do find it so fascinating that it was made and written by a fan that traces back so far into the timeline and the history of this franchise.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Yeah, I mean, well, that I think is great. I'm not hating on anyone that's trying to do something different. Kudos to the entire thought process of just trying to say, okay, what are we going to do with this franchise? Sixth installment, we got to be fresh. That's cool. Does it always land? No. Do we always need it? No. But kudos for trying for sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

To be fair and to set the record straight, we always need to sacrifice a small child in some creepy cult way. Is that not what we're talking about? Because I mean, if we think of the beginning of all of this, right? If we think of like, I'm not saying they did it right, but they tried. And I think the fact of if you are one of those weirdos or one of those, oh, you like Halloween? Do you sacrifice goats? Do you sacrifice? You know, are you a witch? Do you sacrifice babies? It's always that, like, if you're a weirdo like us, it it's oh, you probably sacrifice X, right? And I think that they tried in this movie, and I'm okay with it. Not sacrifice, I mean, they didn't sacrifice the kid, but I'm okay with that being the background of some type of movie.

SPEAKER_07 16:37

Yeah, this movie definitely tries to explore the Sowen, like Sam Hain of it all, depending on the pronunciation that you go by. Soin being the correct, Sam Hain being the Halloween pronunciation of it. But let me tell you, I'm surprised on how much I've turned around on this movie. There's still some shit in it that I hate. Don't get me wrong. There's still some shit that I hate, and I have so much to say, but I felt less bummed out by this movie than I had in years past. And again, there's a catastrophe that befalls a character, hate that. The mission of answering questions that never need to be asked or answered, hate that. There's some really clever things that get worked in story-wise that I can appreciate, but I still think, okay, this had potential. But I almost would like to see someone take a stab at remaking this movie, not taking it as far. And if you see the fucking producers cut, holy shit, there's a version of events that happens in the ending of that movie where it's like, Jesus Christ, did we really need to take this step? But man, I just think about how menacing Michael Myers felt again in this movie.

SPEAKER_05 17:45

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_07 17:46

Maybe it's because the mask looked a little bit better.

SPEAKER_05 17:50

Yes, it looked way better.

SPEAKER_07 17:52

The mask looked better. The problem is that the hair was still a fucking rat's nest. So every silhouette of Michael Myers is ruined in this movie. But the mask itself, not perfect, not really good, not even in the top five masks of the franchise for me. But much better than the alien bullshit we got in Halloween 5. Okay, that's fair. I still have issues with the lips, though.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Why are they so big? Very kissable.

SPEAKER_05 18:17

Luscious lips.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I was gonna say something else, but Michael.

SPEAKER_05 18:21

That's what I'm saying, though. Aside from the look of Michael Myers, the whole menacing feel to Michael Myers in this one, I I mentioned that earlier as well, Chris. There's definitely something more scary in this one about Michael Myers than there was in the last installment that we got, for sure. I think this movie overall was darker than some of the other installments in the franchise. Obviously, some of the concepts or the plot lines like add into that for sure, but there was an elevated level of brutality. And I think outside of the most recent Halloween trilogy, it's up there at the top in brutality.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

It's because it starts with some brujeria shit. You know what I mean? Like they put a little kid in a locker or some shit. That's how it starts. So you better keep us excited. But I will say there was a vibe of like the jump scares that I wasn't expecting. It got me a few times. Some of those jump scares that you get when you're watching Scream and you like instantly think you're an idiot for like jumping. But there were, I know there's some of those silly jump scares in this one. So I feel like it's a good if I'm talking to the kids nowadays and I'm like, hey, I'm trying to sell it to them, like watch this movie. This is a good Netflix and chill movie. You know what I mean? A little like, ooh, I'm scared. I liked it.

SPEAKER_05 19:44

God, I love that. Like I just jumped, and you like look next to you and you're like, Did you see that? I hope they didn't see that because you feel like an idiot. But that's the point, right? We love that feeling. We love to get scared by the movies and just feel like an idiot afterwards, you know?

SPEAKER_07 19:57

Yeah, okay. But you know what? I think I'm maybe a little bit too precious of this franchise, though, because I had the opportunity to watch this. Ali has never seen a Halloween movie, and I had the opportunity to watch this at her place, and I was like, no fucking way it's Halloween. The curse of Michael Myers is gonna be your first fucking Halloween movie. Absolutely not. So Netflix and Jill, if you don't give a fuck about what their opinions are of the franchise, but mm-mm mm mm.

SPEAKER_05 20:21

Yeah, it's understandable. You can end here, maybe if you wanted to. You could, you could, could there's better movies that come out afterwards, but like in a timeline wise, you can definitely end here and it'll be great.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

You could also end dinner on eating buttered rolls.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

Well, I mean, there's different timelines, you know. I'm just saying, one of those timelines could end here.

SPEAKER_07 20:42

Actually, though, Texas Roadhouse, you can do that and it's great. That bread's great.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Always good. You know, really what I wish they would have done in these films is give us like in a violent nature, but the Halloween version of that. You know, talking about going back to basics, sometimes you don't need to be wholly original. Sometimes you just need to be tried and true to what got the job done the first time. And I think adding that mythos here was definitely a choice. And it does not remind me of much else, that's for sure. But that to me is a detriment here.

SPEAKER_05 21:15

Yeah, I think here's where I feel like it gets a little weird because you don't necessarily have an unfamiliar formula here, right? Everything about this feels like a slasher you know you've seen before, but the plot, the mythos, throws this curveball where you kind of have to give it some originality. Even if you don't like the direction of said plot, you have to give it points.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

You do. You have to give the the fact that it was a little culty some points. I will say though, the family tree fucked me up in this one for a solid few minutes. I was just like, wait, first off, characters that are supposed to be recasted don't look like anything like they were a year ago, quote unquote. So that threw me off. And then I'm like, okay, I get stuck in those things. This is how my brain works. So for the first few like 30 minutes, I was just like, wait, she's the aunt, but then the uncle, but then the kid. But then wait, who the hell is this? Oh, they just live there? That's why are they even there? Yeah. The whole family tree, I think, made me think this one was a little bit messy. It got a little messy for me. Was it original with the Colte thing? It was different. I'll say it was different, but the title did not make me feel like it was what I was seeing. The curse of Michael Myers. I was more like, who the fuck is your uncle, Michael Myers?

SPEAKER_05 22:39

Well, what about the original title, Halloween 666? The origin of Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_07 22:44

Fuck yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

That was the original title for this movie.

SPEAKER_07 22:48

Yeah. This title got suggested by the writer because it really just pays an odd to how fucking difficult the production was.

SPEAKER_05 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

That I would have fucking I would have done homework for that one, Chris. You did all this homework and you love it now. If I saw this as 666, the number of the beast, I would have been like, fuck yeah. I'll read a book about it. I'll learn to love it.

SPEAKER_07 23:13

But listen, I can admire at least the giant reach that was taken to bridge the broken components of this franchise. You started another, it started out to redeem itself and then fucking ended up with mute psychic links and a police station explosion. We can admit as much as I love this franchise, that there wasn't a lot to work with. And it may come together held by super glue, but I think they did it. I think they successfully linked the first two films and then four and five. And it's there aren't great things putting it together, but I do think it makes the ending of this movie very interesting. And I think there's a couple different ways you can look at it. The producer's cut has a more specific, more in-your-face ending. In the theatrical cut, there are things that are left open to interpretation so we can assess and explore both of those options in the spoiler zone. But one thing that I can appreciate about the ending is that no matter how you interpret it, I do not let it erase my mind from what happens in Halloween H2O or Halloween Resurrection. In my mind, I know that there's supposed to be different timelines and it's supposed to be kind of retconned. Nah, that shit all happened. It's just the chaos of the Chris Watch.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

When you make your way to the end of this, first of all, you're kind of thankful in a way. And then not because of the particular ending that you get, just because we're there finally, and you want to see how things are going to try to tie up after this film. But I don't know. I I think it was not necessarily predictable because there's parts of it that are kind of wacky, but it's an unsurprising ending. I don't know that it really gives me resolution of the franchise by this point. You know, that really what would have done that would have been having Tom Atkins having been the man in black in in part five, and then he comes back because we find out that Michael's mask was made by Silver Shamrock. That would have redeemed part three for me and been a fine tie-up and all I would have needed. And then Michael could have just kept killing people. The stuff we get here just seems a bit messy, and it's a fun messy to to go back and inject that into the rest of the films, but it just didn't, I don't know, it didn't hit for me.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

I know we keep talking about Halloween three, and I know I've said multiple times that I fucking love it. I'm okay with that being what it is. I think for me, the only thing that I could truly say brought me joy at the end of this movie was the hints of 90s, right? There were like some of the blood, some of the gore was so toxic Avenger. I was like, okay, where the fuck did that come from? Why is there green goo in this scene? There is some elements of obviously just Halloween and the comfy part of it, but I was left without a full closure, if that makes any sense. And maybe because I did watch now that you're seeing it, probably watched the wrong one. I feel like the ending of the mine was like, wait, what? I did not finish, if you know what I mean. But I still need a little bit more for me to say that this was like a thumbs up. I'm done, you know?

SPEAKER_05 26:21

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

I got the blue balls from this movie.

SPEAKER_05 26:24

Yeah, I mean, well, depending on what version you set out to watch, you definitely could have two totally different feelings about the end of this movie or the entire movie itself. I don't know. Uh I'm assuming that the majority of viewers are probably tuning into the theatrical cut, the one that is, at least as of the time of this recording, streaming somewhere. And I think that overall ending was a little bit strange. It didn't really, you know, you, Chris, you say it was left open for some interpretation. And yes, but it also is left open with huge plot holes and different things like that. So yeah, the ending is different, but they also stripped like 60 or 70 minutes out of this film from the like original cut, which is probably why a lot of this shit doesn't make a whole lot of sense while you're watching the movie. So, whatever. Either way, if you do for some reason find yourself catching the producer's cut, right? I think that it might feel a little bit better. I think the story might feel a little bit more flushed out. You may not agree with it, but it will make more sense, in my opinion. But overall, not like super mad at the ending. It is just kind of strange. I like the final moments or the final sounds that you get in the theatrical cut. The interpretation part I think is kind of cool. You know, to take it to that green goo that you were talking about. Was that a callback to Halloween 3?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Oh. Who knows?

SPEAKER_05 27:48

You know what I mean? Like that could have been.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Also, it's a farewell to the 90s, I feel like. We don't see it anymore, really, depending on how you watch this franchise. So it feels good. It feels good to end in the 90s.

SPEAKER_07 28:03

For sure. Yeah. I mean, there are other callbacks to Halloween 3, like a certain character name.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

Oh, yes. Definitely.

SPEAKER_07 28:11

There are a lot of Easter eggs for the whole franchise. I cannot wait to unpack it in the spoiler zone. But before we get there, Sean, how'd you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_05 28:20

Well, I think this one should feed the beast if you're itching for some gore. I think it's got some pretty graphic scenes, some might call electrifying. And there's a tasteful amount of blood to go with it, so that's always good. We love that. Viewers, though, viewers beware that the producer's cut, if you watch that one, is less graphic, but every bit as violent. So to each their own. And I can see how this got a shockingly high gore score back in 1995. But in 2024, with everything we've seen and everything we've been through, the curse of Michael Myers is earning itself a medium gore score.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

And what about the animal report? Well, again, there's multiple cuts, so I don't know what's going on with the other ones, but in the theatrical cut, I think we're all good in the hood.

SPEAKER_07 29:06

Let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. Halloween, The Curse of Michael Myers, introducing a starring Paul Stephen Rudd in his first film, 1995. Is it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_05 29:15

I'll kick us off. I know that this isn't the most popular film in the franchise, but when you're looking at the first six films, this one is probably number three or four for me. I think it's actually pretty good. I actually think this one is a bit underrated, in my opinion. Yeah, it's a little ridiculous, but at the same time, the technique in delivering the story was pretty entertaining. I think the acting in this movie was pretty good, and I really enjoyed Michael a lot in this one. And maybe it's just because coming out of the fifth one going into the sixth one, maybe it's just that drastic change that did it. I don't know. His mask looks better in this one. This one feels more brutal, it's violent. There are also some really cool shots in this movie. There's some really great looking stuff that's happening here. I think this was the only Halloween movie that was shot in fall. So I think it gave that ambiance to the film. I know a lot of people do hate on this one, but I'm here to tell you, don't skip this one. If you can get past the over-convoluted plot, then I think there is enough here for any slasher fan to enjoy. And while I may not be here for the thorny production of Halloween, I am a fan of Michael fucking Myers. And maybe I have the curse of Michael Myers because it's a slash for me.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Literally, everything you said, I am the opposite when it comes to this movie. I hated almost everything of what you said, apart from the fall and it being a little bit gorier. I think this Michael Myers, it just went from worse to like still worse. I didn't enjoy it. I'm okay with saying just stop at three and maybe watch four. I do like four, but five and six are just movies for me to have in the background when it comes to Halloween. I think there was not a lot that I liked about this one. When you say the acting was good, and I'll get into it a little bit more, but I feel like there were so many moments where I was just like, wait, is that really a line? Is this really something that we're gonna leave it with that? Okay. And I don't know if it's because I'm older. I don't know if it's because I I think even the gore score, right? In the 90s, if I'm thinking of this as 95, maybe it would have been okay. And if I was still in my like teens, I might have been like, oh shit, this is so cool. But now I'm like, man, uh there were so many feelings, the abuse of just everything in this movie, it didn't make me feel great. And even though I love spooky Halloween, for me, this is a hack full on, a hundred percent. I don't have to watch it again. Hack.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

This is shaping up interestingly so far. I just want to go back in time to when we reviewed number five and I gave it a hack. I did not enjoy number five, and I think we did a lot of disservice there to Michael, but also his relationship to his relative that we didn't need to be a relative, completely unnecessary. It was bad. Did not enjoy that whatsoever. And I think here they improved upon a lot of stuff. One, Michael feels a lot more like Michael here. The mask looks better. The mask in this like current batch of three or four movies is just trash. I don't know what they were doing, but at least it's better than last time. So here's to subtle improvements. In terms of the story, completely unnecessary. And I like it when you can kind of go into some dark twists and turns for characters, but this is one of those characters you don't really need to do all that. It's just too much extra work. Unless you're gonna go ham and give me end of days kind of level cult stuff going on. Fine, you know, lean into it. But we didn't really lean into it far enough here. Maybe that's why I need to watch the producer's cut. I just feel like it didn't work for this character. I didn't really enjoy the film. I think Paul Rudd was entertaining because you know it's Paul Rudd and you're expecting him to wisecrack, you're expecting him to give us a smirk, even if that's not what's gonna happen. For some reason, his face just makes you feel a little bit joyous. But in terms of the rest of the film, I just didn't really care about what was going on here. It wasn't fun. A lot of the kills just made me go, okay, all right, really? And so for me overall, it just felt like a hack.

SPEAKER_07 33:14

Well, this is shaping up exactly how I expected it to be. Listen, Sean, I know that you mentioned earlier, almost sorry, not sorry that this ranks so high for you. I want to tell you where this film originally ranked for me.

SPEAKER_04 33:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 33:29

And this is almost like an unfair ranking. My previous ranking of the Halloween franchise placed this movie fourth to last. Above Halloween 3. But Halloween 3 was a much technical better film. But for me, some Michael Myers is better than no Michael Myers, so I don't have an issue with the movie at all. However, in terms of the ranking, it was there. Then there was a big cavernous hole, then there was the ROM zombies. That's where it was.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 33:58

However, this was pre-Halloween ends. And let me tell you that this film no longer places fourth to last. And it actually, maybe, doesn't even place last. It's moving on up. Wow. When I think about this movie and what it did, I'm reminded of a time when I was in the Navy and we didn't have cell phones to text on the ship, but I had like a shared file, almost like think about like a Google sheet, but it was a shared drawing file. And my ex-girlfriend and I would draw a line or draw a squiggle or a shape, and then we'd pass it back to the next person, and then the other person would have to like draw a scene out of it. Really a good test of the imagination, making some art, passing the time. That's what this fucking guy did with this franchise. This guy said, Hold on, in the previous film, they didn't know who the fuck this guy was, the man in black. He just walks into town steps off a bus and kicks a puppy. They didn't know who he was. But let's put him into the story this way. All he had to do is connect the dots. And there's some mythological shit that I can appreciate in retrospect learning more about the making of this film. But even just looking at the film objectively on its own, it is so much better than Halloween 5. And I hate to say that because there's still a lot in here that I really fucking hate on a principled stance. I love Daniel Harris, therefore I hate so much of this movie. But just looking at the movie itself, looking at Tommy Doyle, looking at Kara Strode, looking at the family, looking at the return of kind of close to the Myers House versus the Gothic mansion that we had. Listen, he fucking went into the Food Network kitchen on an episode of Chopped, had some fucked up ingredients, and made a damn masterpiece. This movie is a slash. And with that, Halloween, the curse of Michael Myers from 1995, has earned two hacks and two slashes. Now you can find this movie streaming online, and you can also rent the producer's cut. We have links to do all of that down in our show notes below. But there's so much more for us to discuss when we return from break. We had to unpack all the kills in here. We had to unpack the differences between the theatrical and the producer's cuts. There's so much that we have to discuss. So if you've already seen it before, please let us know what you would rate it. But if you haven't, go check it out. Then join us in the second half of the episode so we can dive into all that Halloween fun. We'll see you in the day.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

This episode of Hacker Slash is brought to you by Haddonfield Realty, where we believe every house has a story, even if it involves unsolved murders. Are you in the market for a spacious home with history? Look no further than 45 Lamkin Lane, a charming fixture-uffer with just a stab of character. Sure, there's a little baggage, okay, maybe decades of terror, but the Myers estate is priced to slash for a quick sale. Just imagine the stories you'll tell at dinner parties. Oh yes, this is the very spot where a psychotic immortal killer once impaled his victims, patch the masked potatoes, and for a limited time, our homes come thorn-blessed, which guarantees you'll never be lonely. Something might always be watching, but hey, isn't that part of the charm? Haddonfield Realty will help you find the home of your screens. I mean dreams. Act now, because in this market, deals get snatched up faster than a babysitter on Halloween night.

SPEAKER_05 37:55

Now, this movie is not without its honorable mentions or debatable kills, because I think there is some question on whether or not Terrence Wynne or Mrs. Blankenship or even Dawn are killed, because those were not shown on screen, but I think that they are maybe presumed or debatable.

SPEAKER_07 38:15

In the producer's cut, it's a big no. In the producer's cut, and this is great, right? Obviously, in the theatrical version, you have the sound of Dr. Loomis's screams. But in the producer's cut, he goes back to find Michael's body, takes off Michael's mask, and it's Dr. Wynne. And Michael Myers has now left Smith's Grove, dresses the man in black, and you see him as a shadowy figure. But then Dr. Loomis is screaming because he now bears the curse of Thorn, the mark of Thorn, and he's forced to be the caretaker. But he and Dr. Wynne are both alive.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

Yeah. Interesting. So there you have it. I mean, like, depending on which version you watch, as I said before, you could be left feeling two completely different ways just off of this alone. This is just one example of that.

SPEAKER_07 39:04

I love to tell you how I felt watching both versions. I watched both versions today for posterity. Haddonfield fried husband, John Strode, fuck that guy. Great kill, no matter how you look at it.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

It was upsetting though, because will that cause a head to pop like a water balloon?

SPEAKER_07 39:21

You know what? With Michael Myers, all things are possible. Praise be.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

I don't care if it's possible, probable, or completely unlikely. It was fucking awesome. It was so cool. The electrocution of it all, and then his head exploding. It was gross to look at, but it was so perfect.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Can I tell you my my fear that is reality in this one? Is Poncho's kill because that's what I feel would happen if you go to the chiropractor. His neck being fully twisted almost off and his head doing a 360 is terrible. That's what I think if you go to the chiropractor will happen to you. It was so awesome to see in not real life, but in a movie.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

Dude, those chiropractors can take you out. You know, if they mess something up, if they do it the wrong way, you gone, son. That is pretty, pretty worrisome. It was also ridiculous just to be able to grab somebody by the head and snap them like that, which made it very entertaining.

SPEAKER_07 40:16

It took me a full 60 seconds to realize who the fuck you're talking about until I realized, oh, it's that guy who was wearing a poncho in the rain.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

It's the poncho dude.

SPEAKER_07 40:27

Not the trucker, not man in rain, poncho dude.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

The most appropriate name.

SPEAKER_07 40:33

I gotta know what Poncho Dude was cast as, is what I need to fucking know. Because holy shit.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

I think he's just cast as like a motorist, which is a terrible name. The motorist.

SPEAKER_07 40:46

No, better than Bucky from Halloween 4.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

True, maybe, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

We did get some kills here that I feel like were a little underwhelming, and that is the couple, Tim and Beth. The two of those together, I feel like it could have been a lot of fun because you're like having to watch it happen from a distance, being like, Oh my god, get out of the room. There's someone in the room. And then it's just like, okay, stabby stabby time. You know, we should have had a really dramatic kill in those moments. So missed missed opportunity, I think.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah. With Tim, he did slash his shoulder. Did you notice? His neck got slashed so hard that he just like did a little paper cut on his shoulder, but it was too slow. That like he was holding him for a long time before he sliced his neck, and I did not like it.

SPEAKER_08 41:33

Hold me close now, Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

A little bit intimate between the two of them, you know. That's what it kind of felt like. It was like fall into my arms.

SPEAKER_07 41:42

A lot of intimacy in this movie.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Michael Myers, as we know, is a very intimate person, so it makes sense. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 41:50

Yeah, so intimate that he apparently impregnated his niece. That's how fucked up this movie is. Crimes against Halloween, number six.

SPEAKER_05 42:00

Absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_07 42:01

Higher on the scale, realistically. It's kind of thinly implied in the theatrical cut, but confirmed in the producer's cut, and it is fucking disgusting. The death of the integrity of this film and the franchise, terrible. The only thing that has redeemed it is my love of Tommy Doyle.

unknown 42:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

See, I was gonna ask, because if you just watched a theatrical cut, it's kind of played off where they're messing with fetuses and experiments and DNA, and so it's like, oh, they just did like a scientist thing to her.

SPEAKER_07 42:32

Like a turkey baster.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

Yeah, you know, she was sleeping, whatever. They knocked her out.

SPEAKER_07 42:37

There's a lot of implication of a lot of different scenarios where she is assaulted by Michael Myers.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

It's not a Rosemary's baby situation.

SPEAKER_07 42:47

No, but that's the original vision.

SPEAKER_05 42:48

Yeah, the original vision is a very much like a Rosemary's baby for sure, which would have been super interesting. But you want to know which of these kills really lit my jack-o'-lantern.

SPEAKER_07 43:00

Barry Sims.

SPEAKER_05 43:02

No, it was actually that that like early kill with Nurse Mary getting her fucking head just shoved into the spikes in the wall. One, I don't know where those spikes were coming from. Maybe I just missed it, but the convenience of having these spikes just poking out of the wall was great. But getting lifted up like you're the fucking Undertaker or Kane, just lifting this fucking victim up in a chokehold and then shoving their head through the spikes and just like putting you up, like pinning you up on the wall like you're a like pinned something to a corkboard.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

It is like that Pablo Francisco quip where he says something like, Oh, these kids are so easy to kill. You know, it feels like anytime he needs a spike or s other protruding object from wall, there it is. And you're getting spiked through the head.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Where the fuck were they? There are spikes all over that wall. 'Cause that fucking place, I was so confused where we are. We're like in a bunker somewhere underneath. Like they didn't finish those walls. There's fucking spikes on them for sure.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Dungeon.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

It didn't go all the way through. I wish it's you, you know, it would have gone all the way through for me to truly enjoy that one.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Would have been good for sure. Can we talk about the travesty for a minute?

SPEAKER_07 44:12

Of Jamie?

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Jamie Lloyd? Yeah, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_07 44:15

There is so much to say here. Once again, justice for Daniel Harris. Second again, justice for Jamie Lloyd as a character. Thinking about the brutality of this girl's life. Her parents die in a car crash, revealed to be a fake death later on in the franchise. Her adoptive family. She tries to fucking kill her stepmom or her foster mom, her adoptive mom. So many friends and family die. Rachel Carruthers dies in Halloween 5. Tina, Rachel's best friend, sacrifices herself for Jamie. Then she gets got at the end of the fucking movie, held captive, impregnated by her uncle, or the cult, manages to escape for brief moments before she's impaled by a fucking piece of equipment and then turned on. It's fucking terrible. Ripped to shreds.

SPEAKER_05 45:10

The corn thresher.

SPEAKER_07 45:11

I don't know if I hate this death or her death in the producer's cut worse.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Ooh, what happens there?

SPEAKER_07 45:18

So in the producer's cut, she is stabbed by Michael and left for dead, but she's still alive, clinging to hope. At the hospital, you remember Tommy Doyle goes to the hospital with the baby to get seen and then runs into Dr. Loomis. In the producer's cut, Dr. Loomis is there because he's checking on Jamie, because she was found nearly dead. She is in the hospital bed, and Dr. Wynne, as the man in black, when everything is quiet and everybody has gone, shoots her in the head. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 45:48

Okay. I'll take the corn thresher.

SPEAKER_07 45:50

Your work is done now, Jamie. But in her mind, she's like having a dream or like flashbacks to being in Smith's Grove, running down a hallway on a stretcher, like with the fucking cult in the altar. It's fucking terrible. So it's like, yeah, yes, the corn thresher is a way cooler death. It sucks that it happened so suddenly. But then the alternative is okay, yeah, she's kept alive, she makes it further in the movie, but that feels like more of an insult to her character.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Yeah, that's the not I don't like guns.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

It's just a heavy death. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

That's cheap. She got her like the quote unquote the last word, right? In the producer cut. Yeah. A little bit. It didn't matter because she still died. But at least she tried. You can't have the baby, Michael.

SPEAKER_07 46:39

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

You can totally have the baby.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

You would imagine that her psychic link would have forewarned her.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

At least she can talk now. Yeah, it only worked when she was mute.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Yeah, that's true. It's a switch. It goes one way or the other. That's it.

SPEAKER_07 46:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Psychic or speaking. Pick one.

SPEAKER_07 46:55

It's unfortunate, really. And honestly, there's a lot of deaths in this movie that feel like they kind of just stack up on top of each other. I also feel really badly for Deborah Strode. Also, shout out to John Strode and Deborah Strode being named after John and Carpenter Deborah Hill, creators of the franchise. But Deborah poor classic 90s mom with her spectacles, her short hair, her I hate it. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

I loved it so much.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Okay, let's just get into the production of this character. I don't even know where to start with her, but it reminds me of every bachelorette that dresses like an old lady. That's the outfit with her Costco shoes and her cardigan, that hair, the glasses. It she was I I hated that kill so much. It took too long. And then it didn't even show it. You just got a little splash of blood. I wanted to see her actually suffer.

SPEAKER_07 47:47

Okay. I didn't want her to suffer because she didn't deserve to suffer.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 47:52

Her and Tim Strode did not deserve shit. Carashot also did not deserve shit. John Strode did. He deserved the vicious death.

SPEAKER_06 48:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:01

I really think they handled the scale of who deserved what in terms of the intensity of the death. I think they handled it really nicely in these films. The assholes get the worst deaths. However, it did play with this Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like white sheets. It played with the original Halloween, Michael Myers in the sheets. But what did trip me out and cut me out of this moment is her flipping the sheet, glasses still on to remember, oh wait, there's a fence in my backyard. And then seeming upset as if someone just put it there. No, ma'am, it's been there the whole fucking time. You could have just gone out to the street.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

I wanted more for her. I wanted her to fight a little bit. It was not fair. Unlucky death.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

What I liked though is that it wasn't just her looking at him as he puts a knife into her belly. She like ran and kept trying to find a way out. Even when she was down, she was like, uh, there's gotta be a way until there wasn't. But no, she was like putting some speed out there. For a second, I thought she was gonna get away.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

No, there was no speed. She like mall walked out of there, like with her fucking chunky ass shoes. Oh, Mike is exactly right.

SPEAKER_05 49:09

She was frantic, she was running through the sheets, she got bamboozled, she got stumbled. Mike comes up, and listen, I kind of liked the blood splatter on the sheet. I thought it was a cool shot.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

It was a great shot. I hate it. If you're running, I'm sorry, if you're running, how old was she supposed to be there? Let's be honest. She's probably our age. She was like 38.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

She was 48 when they released this movie.

SPEAKER_05 49:33

It's probably about as good as I would be able to run from Michael, you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

There were three stairs, y'all. There was three stairs, and she walked down every single fucking one. I would hop the fucking fence. What are we doing here? It was sad. I wanted her to die a champ, and she did not.

SPEAKER_05 49:49

Oh man. Well, Chris, you mentioned him earlier, and I gotta say, I loved the Barry Sims show. I thought it was one of the most entertaining aspects of this film. I love that we kept hearing the show playing in the background throughout the first two acts of the movie. You're getting all the, you know, talk and lore about Michael Myers and Haddonfield, and you've got the interviews with the townfolk of Haddonfield and the random and wild discussions that were happening. I I just thought, man, what a cool that it was just like a cool concept to have in the movie that didn't overtake the movie, but with such a creative aspect.

SPEAKER_07 50:30

Yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. And I think the idea of like entertainment media colliding with Michael Myers and Halloween. Obviously, we have the Barry Sims show. We then have Dangertainment and Halloween Resurrection. We also have the radio station and all those kills and Halloween ends. So fucking great. Honestly, though, Barry Sims? Not for nothing. You got got by Michael and his most mobile. This man was zipping around in the most inefficient way from point A to point B to point Z. He goes from Smith's Grove to the bus station to his old house to Kara School, back to his old house, to the rally where he kills Barry Sims to the old house to Mrs. Blankenship's house, back to Smith's Grove. This man was out and about, but he made the time to go to Barry Sims' back seat. You know you're somebody. You know you've made it. When Michael Myers makes the time for you.

SPEAKER_05 51:22

Very true.

SPEAKER_07 51:23

Although very strange, when I see like his like wrapped up body in the theatrical cut, the little girl is just like, oh, it's raining red. Why is it warm? In the producer's cut, she's singing. Dude, it's so creepy.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Fuck them kids. She's just twirling around in blood. Nah, dude. I did not like it. She's like happy about it.

SPEAKER_07 51:44

She's so happy about it. Let me tell you though, I was happy about the fucking score and the original score coming back for an encore in this movie. That felt good.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

That's always a good time. You get that original feeling, even if the rest of the movie doesn't quite hit the way the original does. At least there's something to like really tie into the moment of it all. But I think the score is nice. The set is weird. I gotta say that. The set is really weird when we get to the sanitarium or whatever it's supposed to be. It just screams like super campy horror movie. It doesn't really feel too true to life in a way, which seems kind of out of place. It's kind of like the gothic house from part five. That's what we're getting here.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

How the fuck do you get out of that hospital? Can we just talk about that? Like where you don't. In a body bag. Okay, fair. But like the there's a floor with the pipes with the red light, but then on another side, it has blue steam. I was like, okay, is that the same fucking pipes? Maybe not. Then you go in and it's like a hospital, but then it's like the complete opposite of a hospital. Like the fact that they're running around, I agree with you. I didn't know where the hell they were going. And usually I enjoy the background. I will say the town, the house, the crisp fall day, the wet leaves all made me so happy. The Halloween decorations were on fucking point. I loved every single thing about it. It did give me comfort. I will say that. The Halloween vibes gave me comfort, but I was taken fully out when we got into that hospital because it felt very nightmare on Elm Street. It's a dream. Like, why is there so many steamy pipes here? I hated it. And then the is it like a cave with the culty stuff is happening? Like, how do you where is that?

SPEAKER_07 53:30

Yeah, it's like the evil henchman's secret lair.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 53:34

Like, sir, how did you afford this? This is not up to code. Who did this?

SPEAKER_02 53:37

I will say you mentioned a good point about the actual house, though, because there is something to that like suburban horror of it all. And especially filming in fall, the trees look great. There's a shot where they show like junk, just stuff in the yard that feels really lived in, which is nice. These days, of course, you know, your house has to be manicured. But I remember years ago that you could have stuff in the yard and that's just how life was. And there's like things hanging up for Halloween, there's crap on the lawn, there's the kids putting stuff into the lawn. The whole vibe of just the neighborhood area I was here for. And I think it that kind of gives me a nice tie back to the earlier films where it feels like suburban horror and not just a lair.

SPEAKER_05 54:18

Clearly, no HOA in that neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

No fire hazards, apparently, either, because Kara's room had a thousand fucking candles. Like so many candles for one sexy time. They were so close to them as well, which is weird. Okay, hold on a second.

SPEAKER_07 54:34

Let's really back this up and appreciate the fucking moment. Famed single mom, Kara Strode, who, by her brother's admission, probably hasn't been horny in forever. And yet all those candles are up there or easily accessible to put up there.

SPEAKER_05 54:48

Strange.

SPEAKER_07 54:49

Listen, obviously, Tim and his girlfriend put the candles there. Sure. But who the fuck has all those candles in that house to begin with?

SPEAKER_05 54:57

It's a lot of candles. That's true.

SPEAKER_07 54:59

Under John Strode's roof? Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 55:02

Yeah. There's look, the only thing wet in that house is the water coming out at the tap, alright. Hello. And even that's probably a little dry.

SPEAKER_07 55:10

I do want to say though, that my favorite scene in the movie actually comes when we're introduced to the house. We get this really funny cut where we have Jon Strode saying, Enough of this Michael Myers bullshit. But we have breakfast with the Strodes. We're revealed to have returned here. And this is something where we think about other breakfasts that we've seen in the franchise. We had Rachel and Jamie with her parents in Halloween four. We get in Rob Zombie's Halloween. We have Lori trying to fuck a bagel with her mom, which is really weird. But we also have Michael Myers having breakfast with his family, seeing how fucked up it is. But I think of all those, like this feels like the best bad family breakfast.

SPEAKER_05 55:58

Definitely.

SPEAKER_07 55:59

Because it's clear that a lot of them are really good people, but John is one massive fucking asshole. We're returned to the Myers house, where yes, there is the horror of what Michael Myers did to Judith, but also there's a more sinister, insidious nature, a poison in the family that is John Strode. It's clear that they'd be better off without him. But even when you have Danny and the whisperings of that he gets from the man in black and this curse that he will be bearing, when he pulls a knife out to protect his mom, that's how that shit starts. You then wonder when did Michael Myers ever pull out a knife before he killed Judith?

SPEAKER_05 56:42

Definitely that's true.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

I think in that entire moment, it was too heavy for me. If you watch it now, you're like, wait a minute, I don't think I'm gonna like this movie. Because it it was really in the beginning of it. There's the moments of abuse, him throwing the money, the mom's face. It was all of it was the difference in tone, and just I mean, he hasn't been milked in a minute because he was so aggro.

SPEAKER_04 57:04

He hasn't been milked in a minute.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

I wanted Tim to do more in an abusive relationship, right? That's what was really sad. At some point, Tim didn't think he could do more, and he just had one moment like you stop it, or whatever the fuck he said, but it wasn't enough that a little kid had to protect or felt that he had to protect.

SPEAKER_07 57:27

But then look at how Tim responds when Barry Sims is talking about his girlfriend wearing crotchless panties and barking like a dog. That's where my heart breaks for Tim and thinking about if this is what he's seeing now, what did he see back then? And that's where I think the Strode family is a really tragic family, and it fucking hurts and it sucks so much. But again, Deborah, Tim, Kara, clearly great people who, you know, their version of the Michael and their family is John Strode, and that's fucking terrible. But we have in the theatrical cut, obviously, Danny just takes the knife, and it's just okay, it's a little bit spooky, but in the producer's cut, Danny hears the whispering or the kill for him, looks out the window, sees Michael Myers, and then takes the knife.

SPEAKER_05 58:18

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_07 58:20

I would have liked that more. Yeah, I can't recall if it happens in the theatrical cut or not, but when Kara has her little chat with Danny outside, she has the nerve to tell him, Okay, you know, grandpa didn't really hurt me, right? And it's like, yeah, this is the cycle. She is being Deborah. What Deborah was to Tim, she is now being to Danny.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

That's just really sad.

SPEAKER_06 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

It's sad. Also, somebody fucking help her with that nosebleed. That took way too long to clean up.

SPEAKER_07 58:47

You know, grandpa didn't really hurt me, right? As blood falls from her fucking nose.

SPEAKER_05 58:51

She's literally bleeding.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

Yeah. Oh my God. That's blood, it's no big deal. I like though that later on we get a moment that shows that he's not hearing voices, at least in the theatrical cut, when it's finally revealed who the man in black is. And you saw that coming 10,000 miles away. But it was great where it was like, come in here, and they all turn. It was like, oh, there is an actual voice. Okay. And then they go in, and of course, you're like, Oh, yeah, duh, it's him. Uh that makes sense. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, I'm not crazy, guys. Like, I actually was hearing something this whole time, and it's a real person. There he is. I'm gonna go sit on his lap.

SPEAKER_07 59:27

But he is hearing voices, though, because he was definitely hearing voices when Dr. Wen was not around to be able to deliver that voice.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Potentially.

SPEAKER_07 59:36

There is the curse.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Yeah. But he was being programmed from a young age to hear that voice in random moments. Yeah, it's not cool.

SPEAKER_05 59:43

I do like the callback scene with Tommy Doyle running into Danny as he drops the pumpkin and he's startled and has that scared look on his face, which is such a great callback. One, Danny could be also a nod to the shining, because that's a character in the shining. If you want to stretch it, you know, if you want to just really try to maybe make that tie in somewhere. I don't know. It's something I thought of, but it was such a good callback to the OG Halloween.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:13

100%. And then Tommy looking at Danny saying sorry.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:17

He chose to be in that moment. Well, a obviously Michael Myers was to Lonnie, like you stop him, you drop the fucking pumpkin, etc. But you see for a moment there that he sees himself in Danny, and that's really cute, it's really wholesome, it's really sweet. Another great callback though was Kara getting to school, and it was a very different kind of callback. It was more of an atmospheric callback. If we recall in the original Halloween, Lori goes home after school, and she hears the trick-or-treater screaming, and then she kind of takes a breath, she relaxes a little bit. But in this one, she gets to school after she sees Danny's drawing of obviously all the murdered families or whatever, so her guard is up, she's very alert. She hears a scream and then realizes that she's being a little silly. She's even dressed similarly to Lori, and we have the original score playing. It is so fucking good. It's a beautiful parallel. And that's the bit that I was talking about. Where comparatively, this movie to Halloween five is a masterpiece. Comparatively and comparatively only. Again, I have plenty of negative to say, don't worry. But where Halloween five whizzed and zigged and zagged with fucking goofy cop sound effects, this one recreates the atmosphere of the original with its musical stings, and it was just so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

Can I tell you my least favorite scene? All right. We can talk about characters and everything after this, but Kara, I feel like, goes from being a decent actress to really towards the end is slacking. But there was one scene, and whatever, Tommy and her are running. Michael Myers grabs her hair and pulls her up to the railing. And I have never heard of a slower oh God in my entire life. Like it was like she forgot her line, but it was not even something that she had to really say. No scream, just an oh god. I hated it.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:22

You're not wrong. Kara, I really enjoy having a single mom as a final girl. I find that she's competent and capable, but then again, the quality of the performance starts to decline. But what I also realized though is fuck that. It's probably not her. It's probably just the shitty cuts of the movie. Actually, no, throughout both versions of this film, the theatrical cut and the producer's cut, there are takes that are kept in and chosen. And it's like, why would you do that? Obviously, this was take number fucking 37, and take number fucking 52 was the great one. So I don't even know that I can really blame her for that. It just feels like bad choices made in post.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

Yeah, and I fear that that happened in Halloween four, right? I think in moments we were like, it it's not Daniel Harris's fault. It's the character they gave her. But at the same time, there's not a moment towards the end where I'm like, okay, you got me back. I feel like the beginning was strong and then it started to decline for me personally.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

She's such a weird character, though, to try to figure out when you're first starting the film and you're trying to figure out who's related to whom, and there's so much going on. How old is she supposed to be? And that's her kid, but that's unrelated to the other girl with a kid that we just saw, who's supposed to be like a preteen from the last film. And when you're first jumping into things, there's a too much, I think, going on. Too many strodes are in play at the beginning of this movie. And it's weird. I'm I don't know how old she's supposed to be, how old her parents are. I'm guessing when we look up the age of the actors, we can see if the mom was 48, the daughter could be like any age at this point. So that makes it worse because if she's in college and she went to college at a typical age between 18 and 22, it doesn't feel right because she looks like 30. Maybe that's just the actor, maybe that's just how people looked back then. But to me, it did not come across as 21-year-old.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:10

Maybe she just went back to school after raising a child for a while. That's okay, Mac. Go off. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:15

Let's say that's what happened.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:17

People have different educational journeys, sir.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Great. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:20

The 90s were a new progressive time.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Were these days she'd be on Phoenix or something on the computer? No, I I get it. I myself went back to college at a at a much later age. That being said, it was just like kind of tough to figure out who was who and why we should care about them. How are these strodes related to Lori Strode? That's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:40

So John Strode is the brother of Lori's adoptive father. Okay. Lori's adoptive father had Strode Realty. And this, and again, maybe just because I've watched this like so many times, I feel like I've never had this level of or like a lack of clarity, but maybe it's because I have just watched this a million times. Lori's dad had the key to Strode Real for Strode Realty to the Myers house.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:03

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:04

That house never sold.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:05

That's the gag.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:06

John Strode, without telling his family what house they were moving into, buys the house and moves the family into it so that Strode Realty, where he works, doesn't take a financial hit. It is suffering. So I think there's a lot coded there with John's aggression and his stress. It's also a failing business because they couldn't fucking move this house off the off the market.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:32

Yeah, that's the gag with the house. I don't think they do a great job explaining all of this, though, is the problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

Right. And like the way he talks to his daughter, at first it made it seem like she was an adoptive daughter as well. The way he was speaking about her like coming into our lives with that kid, and it was like, oh, I get it. He's just talking about the fact that she came back after living some life, which deal with it, dude. But at first, listen when you're just trying to like pay attention and figure it out was like, this is there's too much going on. Characters don't really fall into place for me. But then when you it after a couple minutes, when you get it, I'm like, all right, you get that horrible family dynamic. I'm here for it. But I think it could have been perhaps a little clearer. I think what happened to me is that they smashed both the really quick cut of the last scene into the family breakfast scene. And it was our our girl and her baby now being separated forever. And then boom, here are the strodes. And it was like, wait, is that kid one of these strodes? Yeah, I see. Is he adoptive? I don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

I think what's getting you though is just the horrible acting. Because the entire time I thought, I was like, I've put on a fucking porn movie. Like, why is the acting like a porn movie? Like they say the words at all different tones. They're talking, like it's like they're not talking to each other. The little kid Danny's like falling asleep. Like everybody is in the same scene, but they're all in different levels of feeling. Like it did not feel like they were acting together, if that makes any sense. But it it genuinely felt off in the acting.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:05

There's also some more lore that's not fully present in either cut, really. But even in the producer's cut, there's that call with John and Deborah, and she is telling him off, you knew what you were doing, you didn't tell any of us, we're leaving, etc. He fucking hangs up the phone and he starts drinking. But he looks at a framed picture of Kara, and she's not that young. She's only maybe a little bit younger than she is here. It's like obviously like a headshot of the actress, and he says, Hop, happy Halloween, little girl, before taking a swig. So it's like, what the fuck? Like you're really just angry that she went off away from your house and that she's not your little girl anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:48

And I feel like they were trying to make him seem a little bit more relatable or a little bit more complex. Really, it's just no, you're just an asshole. Just an asshole.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:56

Yeah, you're just a douchebag, but yeah, there's no relating to this guy at all. I will say though, another fun callback is one that you mentioned, Chris, with Mrs. Blankenship, you know, the callback to Minnie Blankenship from Halloween 3 Season of the Witch, right? And there's also a really great part when you enter her living room and you see Phantom of the Opera 1925 playing on her TV, because that was also a great choice for this film. I loved it.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:26

They were supposed to be watching Halloween 3.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:29

Like the scene with the boy dying or whatever.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:32

Yeah, but they didn't want to pay for the rights to air that so crazy. Another great though, little Easter egg was the Tim Strode Stomach Pounder, which is a nod to the fog.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:42

Ah, yes. Yes. That's true. Absolutely. And you know what? I think maybe the Danny Shining correlation probably comes from what I think is an for sure cemented nod to the shining with the room that Kara is being contained in at the sanitarium, which is room 237, which is the same room as the infamous room in the shining.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

It is this movie has a weird effect on me, and I think it's because I'd never watched it until now, but I connected with Paul Rudd the most, which was kind of funny because I was worried we were going to get that like Vince Vaughn effect where it's like, oh, they're trying to make him creepy and it's not a good look for him. When he just becomes less creepy and just more one of our protagonists, I was here for it. I was hoping for some wisecracks, hoping for some jokes. He wasn't there yet in his career. You know, he's a baby here, even though he looks basically the same. But I liked him more than all of the other characters. Even his partner in crime, I was like, honestly, if she gets got, I don't really care that much. But I don't want to see him go out like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:47

Can I say I liked Mrs. Blinkenship? And I feel like this is just because I am fucking demented, obviously. But I feel like this movie did such a weird buildup in the characters that the people that you were supposed to be like, oh, she's weird, she's creepy. I actually wanted to hang out with. You know what I mean? Like, I actually wanted to be a part of it. Maybe that says more about me than the actual character, but I the entire time, I mean, Paul Rudd, love him now. I don't, I and this is probably everybody's gonna be like, What? I hated what he did with that character. I can't take him serious as a creepy dude. The moment when he's like pounding and trying to get Kara out, and it's 45 seconds and he can't do it, and he's like smiling and quirking. Like, what, dude? What? Why is it taking so long? They tried to be himself and it didn't work for me. Probably my least favorite character. Easy on the eyes. Easy on the eyes, hated everything else about it.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:49

Wow. He was doing his best. His best wasn't quite good enough, but also I prefer this Tommy Doyle to bird whistling Tommy Doyle, to mob inciting Tommy Doyle. True. To Mr. Fucking, I'm gonna assume that this little old man who's balding with scraggly hair is the six foot over fucking giant that terrorized me in my childhood. That guy was just a dumbass. Fuck that Tommy Doyle. This Tommy Doyle, king. Love him.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:19

Paul Rudd does no wrong, can't do a bad thing. Accent, inconsistent. Dramatics, uh, especially, oh my gosh, when he is turning away from Dr. Loomis in the emergency room, and then he just like quickly turns back like he's a fucking phantom with a baby in his arms.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

He looks like the hunchback of Notre Dame, dude. He like he turned around like Igor, the Heddenfield hunchback, 100%.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:45

The hunchback of Heddenfield. He was, you know, working out some kinks. He is trying to figure it out, you know. First theatrical debut. Gotta give him a little bit of leeway here, but they did give him like a really bad rap at first. Like he definitely felt like he was some kind of creeper, and then gradually they made his character a little bit more normal and relatable. So I see that progression of it too.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:08

Listen, all I'm saying is it's a very fortunate thing for Paul Rudd and Paul Rod only that Clueless came out before this movie did. If his career started with this, I think it would have been a problem. I think he would have had a slower start, which would have been a shame.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:24

It's possible.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:25

But also, can we appreciate for a moment Dr. Loomis, may he rest in peace?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:32

Who passed before the film was even complete.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:35

Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:36

What didn't do it justice was the split screen credits at the end of the movie, where you obviously it's up to your imagination that he is being killed or hurt or whatever. Whatever you want to think of. Then they panned down to the mask and the syringe, total junkie move. Not sure why. And then all of a sudden, I don't know if you saw it, but in the theatrical version, it said R.I.P. too soon. Like he literally just died on the scene. Maybe I don't know. He deserved more. He deserved more than what this movie did to him.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:13

For sure. The the real tragedy is not even that Donald Pleasance passed away, it's that the director decided to edit a lot of the scenes out of the movie because he thought he was fucking boring. What a fucking douche.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:28

Yeah, completely. This man was frail, ill, and still giving it his damn best. And he actually said that he wanted to be in the next 20 fucking Halloween movies. He was really planning on if he was alive, he wanted to be involved, which makes it so much sweeter that we continue to have him and his presence in the Blumhouse trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

Absolutely. I will say I like him without the boil on the cheek. That was a nice reversion to just get rid of that junk, get rid of that crap makeup, and just make him look like a normal dude again. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

He was looking kind of creep caper at some points. He turned around at one point when they were listening to the radio, and I was like, oh, he's not sad but true. He's not gonna make it till the end, is what I thought.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:13

Yeah, his character did, the actor did not, which is devastating. I also love though this impassioned evolution and return to form for him because he sounds so meek, so peaceful. He buried the ghost in his manuscript. He is giving at the beginning of this film the way Laurie Strode ends and Halloween ends, and that's really sweet. But the more he gets involved, the more he goes back to being more and more worked up. Could you imagine Donald Pleasance saying evil dies tonight?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:43

I could imagine it, just not in the same way that Tommy Doyle did.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:46

Maybe he could have pulled it off better. I don't know. But you know, the more I think about that, the more I think that is probably the worst part of the movie, is it's the last time we get to see Donald Pleasance as Dr. Loomis. It's either that or it's just the culty shit that they did with the film. Because I don't care what anyone says. I really don't, I don't think we really need to understand Michael and the whys behind everything. And even if we did, I don't think that we want it to be a satanic cult that's controlling him.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:16

Listen, so many fucking things wrong with this movie, and I know I've spoken very highly of it, but the culty shit, bullshit. The altar underneath the sanitarium, bullshit. What also is bullshit is Dr. Wyn's bullshit. Because why is this man retiring and then asking someone else to come out of retirement as if he is physically capable to do this job. Sir, Dr. Loomis has been older than your ass. And I do love that we have Dr. Wynne, who's brought up from the first film. We have Dr. Wynne who said, Jesus Christ, he doesn't even know how to drive a car. He is the guy that Dr. Loomis is talking to. He points out the whole issue that Michael Myers doesn't know how to drive. And now this gives the color and the context that he was the one, as Dr. Loomis predicted, who must have been giving him lessons. Dr. Wynne's crap is crap. But also, I say again for the millionth fucking time, we did not have to do Daniel Harris and Jamie Lloyd like that. It wasn't enough to kill her off unceremoniously, but she also had to be a mother at fifteen, a mother to her uncle's baby, as is confirmed in the producer's cut. Daniel Harris went through the painstaking and expensive process of emancipating herself from her parents to be able to legally participate in the production of this film because they simply could not wait a year. They posted headshots trying to cast women who look like her, and yet here we are. She got her encore in Rob Zombies Halloween, she's the best part of that movie. But fuck, this movie is still hard to watch because of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:51

Can I say I I know I'm supposed to say the best part, but this is the best part when really it's the worst part. But you forgot to mention the blanket with the little kid changing sizes throughout that entire running scene. Where the fuck is that little kid? It's like when Danny's holding it, it looks like this small. It's just a bundle of blanket. But then Paul, at one point, if you're and I know this is my ADHD hyper fixated on a blanket, but it I needed a little bit more reality. Like, actually give me some cries or give me something to make me feel like you are running around with a little Satan kid and not a fucking blanket, because the blanket was like open at one point. I'm like, the kid's not there. It was moments like that that I was like, okay, this is not, it's not even fun. If it was a little bit of fun or reality, I might have changed, but I don't know. Little things like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:51

I'll say the parts that were fun for me were the camp, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't deliberate. The deliberate stuff, it's whatever. The stuff that just came out campy. Specifically, thank you, Paul Rudd, for your awkwardness in this movie because I think that helped. And so we had some nice campy moments that weren't supposed to be campy, but it just worked, and it kind of made me laugh. And you know, that's nice. I was gonna say Paul Rudd was the best part, but it's not just him. It's just the moments here that came out funny when they didn't mean for them to be funny. But that being said, I know I give it a lot of flack. It's better than the previous film. And when I make my way through all of them and earn the binge finally to do one through a million, then I'll watch this again. I'm not gonna skip it. I might actually throw three back into rotation because of this film. Yeah. Right? And just, you know, maybe it's earned its place amongst I haven't made it to Rob Zombie. I don't know if I'm going to, but everything else now it's deserving of a rewatch.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:51

Yeah, I think this is a very watchable installment in the franchise. So yes, I think I'll definitely watch it again. It might not be every year as I watch different timelines here and there, but I feel like I will most certainly get back to this movie at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:06

If somebody that has never seen it, it's one of those holy shit, have you seen this movie? It's ridiculous. I would show it and watch it with somebody else. I would probably give them a warning that if they're epileptic, you're gonna get a fucking seizure because the lighting and everything, you know, is a little much for somebody to enjoy in just a one-to-one. The first few minutes are Netflix and chill, and then don't worry about the rest.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:32

Wow. Listen, this movie has actually gotten better as I've seen it. And I really hope, especially with more Halloween content around the horizon, we have a Halloween TV series coming out in the future. I hope it continues to feel better, but I'm absolutely going to continue watching this a million times in the month of October. But for now, there you have it, folks. Halloween, the curse of Michael Myers, has earned two hacks and two slashes. And we certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation about this movie doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:05

Definitely not, because if you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by subscribing through Apple Podcasts or visiting patreon.com/slash hackerslash, where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B-sides, which are our free sides for the spooky season, movie nominations and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:30

And if you would fight off a cult to save our baby, leave us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:39

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, madness is everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:43

Michael's come home, hasn't he?

SPEAKER_07 1:20:54

I know I talked a lot in this episode about what a gross fucking injustice it was to recast Jamie Lloyd and not have Danielle Harris. But I think we can at least appreciate the great karma when Danielle Harris herself was the person who was recast with in Hatchet. Oh she was the better version of Mary Beth, and she had more Hatchet films. Way better than the first Mary Beth.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:23

Oh yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:25

Well, look at that. I didn't even put those two together. Fucking worked out so well.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:29

Yeah. I mean, if they just gave her the money she wanted, you know, we could have had her in this film as well.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:35

You know, it's not even just the money, it's the indignity. They told her that this was a scale role. Yeah. And you are only gonna get scale pay.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

Not for this movie.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:45

It's just where's the fucking reverence for this child who carried this franchise on her back since Jamie Lee Curtis made her departure. How old was she in 95? 17 years old. Well, actually, in 1995, she would have been 18. And she was 17 in 1994 when they were casting. And she went through that whole process of emancipation.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:04

So at least she wouldn't have looked 30, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:06

She would have had a baby at like 17. It's like teen pregnancy.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:10

Yeah, but this is already teen pregnancy because remember, yeah, in Halloween 5, Jamie was nine years old, and this movie is six years later.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:20

Lord.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:20

Okay, gross. So she's a 15-year-old mom with her uncle's baby.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:26

See, we don't care. We just throw fucking shit in there, man. Yeah. Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:30

And I'm my own grandpa. There have been some really just interesting choices when it comes to recasting in movies and TV shows. I think Game of Thrones was one of the big ones for me more recently, which is still several years ago. But like the one that always hit the worst was Julianne Moore being passed off as Clarice Starling. That's an injustice. And Hannibal.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:56

Oh, yeah. Okay. Now I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:58

I never watched anything beyond the first Sons of the Lambs. Well, I'll watch also then I think Red Dragon was the sequel.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:05

Right, but you wouldn't have thankfully had to worry about Clarice and Red Dragon.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:09

It's it's just weird seeing anybody else try to be Starling. Doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

But they like tried so hard to cast somebody that looks like her, a little bit like the same hair, and it just makes everything more like a try a hard, I think, in that one specifically.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:25

Very much so. Yeah. Or gosh, the the pinhead from not the most recent movie. But go back a couple years, I think it was like 2010, 2011, there was a Hellraiser movie. Yeah. And it was Stephen Smith Collins playing Pinhead. Hellraiser Revelations.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:41

Revelations, that's the one.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:42

Oh my gosh. Just look at the pictures. He looked like shit, didn't even look right. Looked completely off. Like the Timu fucking pinhead.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:51

Yeah, it's like the cross. They picked one crosspeller from the horror convention, and they're like, come here.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:58

You want to be in a movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

Yeah, let me show you the world.

unknown 1:24:01

Pinhead.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:02

It's absolutely horrendous. Horrible. Absolutely horrendous. I think the decision to cast Lou Cheney as Frankenstein's monster in the ghost of Frankenstein. I just don't know at that point how you can even try to beat Boris Karloff. You know what I mean? No one has really come close, and I'm sure no one ever will. It just didn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:24

The Hollywood monsters, though, had the saga of Bella Legosi and then Boris Karloff. Like it was the like who's gonna play it this year situation. Just the two of them. Which, if it would have just stayed between them, it would have been fine.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:38

They should have just kept it.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:40

It could have just been a family business.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:42

Yeah. I mean, seriously, in the words of Brett the Hitman Heart, he's the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:49

Look at you. One year later. Vettel's annual resurrection. Some other recast, though. Obviously, we have George Wilbur playing Michael Myers in this film. He played Michael Myers in Halloween four.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:02

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:02

But Michael Myers also has been recasted a million times. George Wilbur was the first actor to ever play him in two consecutive roles. Well, not consecutive, there was obviously Halloween five in between them. But before we had our most recent Lumhouse trilogy, he was the man. He did it. We've also had so many Jasons, so many revolving doors of Jason. Leatherface was recast after one movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:28

Tommy Douglas.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:29

Tommy Jarvis.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:31

I mean, there's the travesty of trying to replace Robert England as Freddy with Jackie Earl Haley.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:38

The worst.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:39

Bless his little heart.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:40

I consider that two percent less of a recast because it was a reboot. But still that man is alive and looks great, and therefore it never should have fucking been done.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:50

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:52

But something that did get fixed or upgraded, in my opinion, was Mama Firefly.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:58

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:59

Yeah, the Devil's Rejects. No, House of the Thousand Corpses up to Devil's Rejects. When we got that flip, I think she had a much better performance.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:08

I can see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:09

Doctor Sleep was an awkward recasting of the entire Torren's family. I think they did a pretty decent job, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:16

I do like Ewan McGregor.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:18

It looked like somebody trying to play Jack Nicholson. I feel like it just made it weird. You can't compare.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:23

Sorry, I think I'm really just thinking about Ewan McGregor.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

Oh, okay. Yes. The standard. No, I'm thinking about the actual family. Yes. Kind of look, they look like them, but not in a good way. Vaguely. Vaguely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:35

At that point, just get Jack Nicholson's son to play him. That's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:39

That was a mess.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:41

That would be interesting for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:43

Yeah, another fucked up recast. And maybe it's less of Anthony Michael Hall's fault and more of just this take on Tommy. But not having Paul Rudd come back as him for Halloween kills and Halloween ends.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:56

Oh, I know. I think, wasn't it just a scheduling conflict?

SPEAKER_07 1:27:00

It was a scheduling conflict. I say Halloween ends very optimistically, knowing that they wouldn't kill my boy Paul. Yeah, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:08

That's a fucking bitch.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:09

It would be cool to see him again in that role, but you know, he just got too big.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:14

I feel like he learned how to act though in that role. Like some moments I was just like, why stop? You're so much better now. If I would have gone to 95, I would have been like, play it cool, dude. Just it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:26

Play it cool.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:27

Well, this is also like Keanu Reeves and his fucked up acting acting in Bram Stoker's Dracula. Yeah. The 90s weren't a great time for our heart throbs. But Leonardo DiCaprio and Critters 3. My favorite. You know, you betcha. Great job.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:41

Fucking Leo.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:42

So good. Another wild recast that we've seen on the show, Angela Baker from Slepaway Camp. She went from being Phyllis to being Pamela Springsteen.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:52

Oh, that's right. Yeah. I don't know. I don't think the recastings in those movies really bothered me as much, though. They didn't sit. Close to my heart. I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:02

Well, that's because they only did it the one time. And I was also a preteen child to a grown woman, so I guess it's not that hard, I suppose.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:10

True. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:12

The greatest recast of all time, though, maybe Art the Clown, Terrifier.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:17

Oh, I mean level up for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:20

Speaking of which, I finally showed Allie Terrifier, and I was so nervous the whole time. Tell me how she didn't have a single fucking reaction to the hot dog slice.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:30

Not a single reaction, no movements, nothing.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:33

She was like, I think you just prepared me really well for it, but I feel like I've watched other things with you that have made me more uncomfortable than this.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:41

Well, that's impressive. She did laugh at Arthur Clown, though. The movie was not her cup of tea, but she did laugh at Arthur Clown.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:48

Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:49

Especially when he flicked off the fucking camera.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:52

For sure. What's another level up is I think Bill Skarsgard is pennywise from Tim Curry. Even though I like Tim Curry.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:00

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:00

Yeah. Whoa. Whoa. Yeah. I think so. Definitely.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:05

Listen, you can like and love and appreciate and respect Tim Curry because Tim Curry is not what's wrong with that miniseries.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:12

True.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:13

But also Tim Curry delivers a very New York rough Pennywise. Whereas Bill Skarsgard Pennywise feels more like the goofy kind of clown with a silly voice that could, I believe, lure in a fucking child.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:27

Yeah. It's the eyes and the drool, also, man. It's just the whole look. Something not right.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:33

I can't unsee him though, like in any other movie that he's in right now. Every time I see him now, I'm like, oh, stop smiling like that. Because it's his actual face. I'm a little Bill Skarsgord out though. Yeah, he's been in a lot.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:46

He has been busy.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:48

Good for him. Great for his career.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:50

Tonsil's so hot right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:51

I think I just want to pump the brakes on myself so I don't really get tired of my boy. I think I've liked everything I've seen him in. I just want to keep it that way.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:59

Yeah. Let's hope. I don't know. What's a you know, this is actually an interesting one. I think that some people will say that they didn't like the I don't know if it's much of a recast, but when we went from the movie we got with Interview with the Vampire, and we got Tom Cruise as the vampire listat, and then we got Queen of the Damned with Townsend. Some people didn't like that because of how well Tom Cruise did in Interview with the Vampire, but I think the look that Stuart Townsend had I liked a little bit better. Maybe it's because I'm a little bit gothic. Maybe it was the Jonathan Davis singing for him of it all. You know what I mean? I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:36

I'm gonna be honest. I have a confession here. I feel like never in my fucking lifetime have I connected those two. I've only seen Queen of the Damned very recently, like within the last since like 2020.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:49

Okay. Okay. I saw that shit in theaters.

SPEAKER_07 1:30:52

And it did not occur to me that this is Tom Cruise's role. Interview with the Vandal.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:57

Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know. Some people will say or have an argument that they prefer one or the other, but they're completely different films that aren't even attached to each other. But I get it. They're part of the Chronicles. I get it. They're in that same storyline or in that world that you know Anne Rice or whoever created, but uh they're not movies that were meant to be paired up with each other. So it's not like a sequel, it's not like a reboot, it's just its own thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:23

And I think I'm okay with that versus something that is so obvious from one year to another, supposed to be the same character, yeah, but a completely different person. I think those are the ones that get me the bad way. But I will say one thing. We talk about Friday the 13th, Leatherface, Michael Myers, all of them being recasted. And even though they're behind a mask, you can still be a really bad actor, be a really bad recast.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:51

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:51

Even though you're not walking the same way, your mask looks whack. There's so many things that make it so obvious, especially if you're a diehard fan.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:00

Yeah. I think almost every Jason has been good, but I think most Michael Myers have been bad.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:06

Because they fucked up the mask most of the time. The mask looked horrendous.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:11

And you fuck up the walk.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:13

And the walk. Or you got a beer gut.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:16

George Wilbert, again, Halloween 4 had the fucking shoulder pads on. Like he was an 80s businesswoman. Dude, get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:24

What is that?

SPEAKER_07 1:32:25

Listen, I love my boy Michael Myers. Don't get me wrong, but I am very specific about which Michael Myers I put on my bot my body or on my walls and merch. I thought you I thought you were gonna say on my back. I was like, what are you doing with Michael Myers?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

What are we doing?

SPEAKER_07 1:32:41

Uh that doesn't pair well with the last time we talked about Michael Myers with you on the show. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:46

One year later.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:48

But I do think it's it's worth mentioning that we have Paul Stephen Rudd being introduced. This is his first film. A lot of people think it's clueless, but this film was actually made first, so this is his first film. And it just makes me think of other movie stars that we've had who got their start in horror, like Tom Hanks.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:05

Johnny Depp.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:06

Leonardo DiCaprio. Wait, Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks his first movie role was in a movie called He Knows You're Alone.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:13

Oh, yeah, you've said this before.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:15

He played a bit part, it wasn't a huge thing, but that was his first movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:19

Hey, horror is where it's at if you want to catapult your careers, folks.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:23

It's the easiest to do bad. What about Jennifer Aniston also getting into Leprechaun?

SPEAKER_05 1:33:28

Oh, Leprechaun. So true. Oh, true. So true.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:32

Chloe Grace Moretz, Avenue Horror 2005.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:35

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:36

Yeah, she was a little baby girl.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:37

Wasn't she Carrie also?

SPEAKER_07 1:33:39

She was later on.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:40

And she was a recast in Carrie.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:43

Yeah. There were a few folks whose first movie appearance was the 1992 Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Like Hillary Swank and I believe even Ben Affleck.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:53

What?

SPEAKER_07 1:33:54

Yeah, he was uncredited, but it was his third appearance in a movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:56

Holy shit, I do not remember that.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:58

Was it Buffy or or was it what was the other one? Charmed. There were so many in Charmed. Well, Charmed was the TV show.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:05

I'm talking about the Buffy the Vampire Slayer movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:08

The movie.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:08

Oh, the movie. Yeah. But speaking of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Sarah Michelle Geller, I know what she did last summer, was only her second ever appearance in a movie while being credited.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:18

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:18

George Clooney, too, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:20

Wait, what was George Clooney in? He started out in several horror films.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:25

Yeah, so he was in Dust Till Dawn, which we're doing later this year.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:27

Oh, yeah. From Dust Till Dawn, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:30

Second appearance ever in a movie was Return to Horror High. I watched that just last year.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:35

Don't know if I've seen that.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:36

I have not. It's pretty fucking dumb, but it's great.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:40

I don't think this is his first film, but Vince fucking Vaughn as Norman Bates was a cinematic travesty.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:47

Well, I guess not his first, but Kevin Bacon and Friday the 13th.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:51

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:52

Beautiful kill. Beautiful kill.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:54

Tremors, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:55

Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:56

What if I told you that Charlize Theron was in a Children of the Corn movie? Wow. What? Children of the Corn 3, Urban Harvest from the Year of Our Lord 1995. Uncredited, but there.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:09

The Urban Harvest.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:10

That's fucked up. They didn't even credit her.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:13

I'll smash that. CornHub.com.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:15

We had Shannon Elizabeth in Jack Frost. We had Patricia Arquette in Dream Warriors. Jason Alexander from Seinfeld, who was in The Burning.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:25

Oh, there we go. If you gotta start somewhere, start by having some fun. I feel like the only way you're gonna do that is be a either you're Tom Cruise and you're doing your own stunts, or you're in a horror film.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:36

Yeah. Y'all remember that time Renee Zellweiger and Matthew McConaughey started in a horror movie? It was Texas Chainsaw Massacre the Next Generation.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:44

Oh yeah. That was interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:48

How old was she?

SPEAKER_05 1:35:49

Probably pretty young.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:50

Let's see. I mean she's looked the same as she was in 1994.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:54

Gotta be young in her twenties.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:56

She was born in 1969, so 1994 minus 1969.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:02

She was 25. Yeah is old.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:05

Well, look at that.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:06

I'm gonna be honest, I had a big like uh boycotting of her when I was younger. Not because of her at all, but because my my sisters and my mom were obsessed with watching Bridget Jones's diary.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:18

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:19

And I couldn't fucking stand it. And so I just said I don't want to see anything that she's in. I thought you were gonna say Maulraths, or like one of her good ones.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:27

Maulrats, what a classic.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:30

No, but that too.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:32

Oh no, come on. Love it.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:35

Those are great.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:36

Maulrats.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:36

But I do want to throw it back one more time to Leo DiCaprio. First appearance ever in a movie, Critters 3. So bless be his name.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:43

That's a good way to start out, you know? It is, absolutely. And look at him now.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:47

Yeah, from getting mauled by space aliens to getting mauled by a bear by hooking up with every 24-year-old in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:54

Ooh, da-da.

SPEAKER_07 1:36:55

Yikes.