383: Society (1989)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Neppo baby! Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hack or Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Now, we'll get to the bottom of this. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

A total joke, a waste of time.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Or a slash. Totally killer, pun intended. We believe horror is for everyone, and as such, for raining these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the Superfly Space Guy Mac.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

We're going to make a wonderful contribution to society.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. You know, I'd love to stay here and shoot the shit, but I got a big day tomorrow, so. The people have spoken and our patrons have decided which movie we're covering this week.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

And if you're a patron or Apple Podcasts subscriber, you'll also get to hear our Beast Side at the end of this episode, where we talk about conspiracy theories and our not-so-secret secret societies.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Now in the late 80s, horror was pushing boundaries in ways that left a lasting mark on the genre. While slashers dominated the mainstream, some filmmakers leaned into body horror, blending satire with grotesque imagery to create something unique. This week, after winning the overall patron vote by one vote, we're talking about the 1989 film Society.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

This movie was nominated by our patron Matt, who says the directorial debut of Brian Yusna Society is an unsettling tale of a teenager adopted into a wealthy family that, along with others in the elite tier to which they belong, hides a very dark secret. A story of class warfare just as relevant now, maybe even more so, as it was when it premiered in 1989. It also features some truly gruesome body horror featuring top-notch special effects courtesy of Screaming Mad George. Between the excellent practical effects and an unfortunately timeless story with some occasionally hilarious writing, this movie quickly found a place among my personal favorites when I first saw it a few years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Well, we'll see if it becomes among our personal favorites, but who's seen this one before?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Seen it, I hadn't even heard of it. This thing is also incredibly hard to find. It seems like it was really niche.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Greed. I have never seen this before in my life. Feel like it did come up in conversation recently with a couple of movies that now having watched it, it reminds me of, but I've definitely never heard of it before, at least not in the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah, I hadn't heard about this either, but learning that it was Brian Yesn's directorial debut and thinking about how much I love Reanimator, I expected this to be a kooky time. And having only seen one gif from the movie, I expected it to be fucking disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

That is a hundred percent what I was expecting. I was expecting something along the lens of night breed, and that would have been okay, but I was also prepared for absolute gruesomeness and gore and explosions of body parts.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Agreed. I expected disgust as well, because the movie that I feel like was in combination of conversation was the substance. I definitely know that it was compared to the society a few times. And I actually watched this on Cronenberg's birthday, so I felt like, okay, good timing, body horror. I expected it to be very, very gross, but honestly, not very good outside of that. I was kind of worried that I wasn't gonna like it right off the bat, that it wasn't gonna be a very good film, like maybe just a very campy, not my type of humor be horror. And also because I hadn't heard about it, I was like, is this even a classic? I guess I just was very out of loop on this one.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah, listen, there are so many things that were coursing through me when I was watching this movie. And some of it was that question of like, okay, was this a classic? This feels like one of those movies that has aged much better than it was initially received. I know that when this movie originally came out, it was received much better in Europe than in America, it was kind of seen as a joke here. But man, the experience of this movie, within the first few moments before we even get to the opening title card, I was like, all right, this shit's already weird because this movie is so fucking wet. Wet isn't even a bad word, and it's not the kind of word that makes your skin crawl. But the way that I said it is the way that this movie made me feel. Not in a good way. This movie made me feel like a lot of discomfort and revulsion as it progressed. It also had this increasingly disorienting and bizarre fever dream-like quality. There was so much confusion and also moments of disbelief. And I think it's in part because of the way that it starts, right? It starts with this late nightmare on Elm Street, Dream Warriors or Dream Master vibe, synthie music, eerie atmosphere, some hallucinations. And that actually tracks in Screaming Mad George did the special effects make up for this and Dream Master. So there's a connection there, but holy shit, this was a trip.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

It was a trip. You know, I think we've talked about how gross we expected it to be. And aside from being wetter than the alien in Alien, it just wasn't as physically gross as I thought it was going to be for like 95% of it. I mean, it did seem pretty tame. For 2025, it actually feels in the political zeitgeist. So it's weird that, you know, we did mention that this was going to be kind of a timeless story, but it feels really on the nose. If this came out this year, we'd be thinking, oh, come on, could you couldn't make it any more obvious. But that was something I was thinking about the entire way through, that it's almost too obvious of satire for right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah, it's one of those things that reminds you that history continues to be cyclical and always repeats itself.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Agreed. And I think that the intro sequence does lend itself to make you think that it's going to be a very gross, body horror, disgusting, very shocking film. Even the hymn played was very off-putting. I was like, wait a minute, have I been sleeping on this film? This is very odd and strange, but I'm all about it. But then the film continues and it's for lack of a better word, mid. It's it's okay. It was definitely a letdown. I felt like, all right, when is this going to get interesting? But then it takes a very quick pivot into what the fuck town? Okay. And so in general, I felt like, all right, this is 80s, sexy, weird vibe, not necessarily done right. And then I wonder what we could have had if the satire hit as well as it had intended. Like I didn't even laugh too much throughout the film either.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yeah, I could sense all the moments I was supposed to laugh, but I wasn't laughing a ton. There are things that felt like very great bits of writing where it's kind of like incidental humor, but there wasn't much else in here that really screamed black comedy to me. And I know that we have the satire. This has some notes of comedy infused into it. I was surprised to see famed Halloween 2 star Billy Warlock in this movie. Obviously, I'm kidding, if you're a Halloween fan, Billy Warlock actually had a cameo as a kid or a younger man with a boombox, and that boom box is how Michael Myers learns where Laurie is in the original Halloween 2. But his dad played Michael Myers in that movie, Dick Warlock, which is also a badass name.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

So you're telling me that he stars in a movie about society and the rich, and he's a Nepo baby himself? You know, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Nepo baby, who knows? It seems like he's cut his own teeth and made his own career. But beyond that, this movie, I was actually surprised. It felt like a slow trudge through this paranoia and surrealism. I think the body horror, even though I expected it to be gross, I didn't expect to be it's specifically the way that it is gross. I didn't see that coming. There was a lot in this movie where I'm like, where the fuck has this been now? And it's interesting that you brought up the substance because I wasn't even thinking about the substance. I see now why you why. But I was thinking about Infinity Pool. This movie screams Infinity Pool to me. And I don't mean that if you listen to the Infinity Pool episode, you're probably gonna assume that I mean like, oh, this movie is shit. No, no, no, no. I think this movie had more to say, and I think it had the words to say it. But I think there's a lot of moments in this movie where it really played with this ability to we're gonna take you in this direction. It's gonna feel very Emneyville horror too, but then all of a sudden we're going to shift away to something a little bit more cerebral.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I love that you brought up Infinity Pool. Hadn't considered that. Also, the gag that I watched this on Cronenberg's birthday and Infinity Pool is his son's film. Nepo Baby. Nepo Baby once again. Is that the new theme for the year? Maybe. We're still trying to figure that out, huh? But I have to say that this film unfortunately was a bit of a disappointment because it felt a little redundant. I think it does have a lot more to say than Infinity Pool. I agree with you there. But the first half's into this idea of psychosis, mental health, like what's real, what isn't. It's just strange. It's world building. Okay, this is a short runtime. Let's get some action in here. Let's see what the issue is. I feel no tension. Like if it's a comedy and a satire like it's supposed to be, I'm not even laughing much of it. It takes its time and it gets old fast. But then those last 20-ish minutes is where it just says, fuck it, we ball. We're doing it all. You're gonna see some things that you've never seen before. And that's where I'm like, okay, disappointment, it's high, but surprise? Higher.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

The balls are on the wall. That's for sure. They're somewhere in someone's fist, probably.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Potentially. There's a couple of things, honestly, that surprise me. And one is Billy Warlock because for some reason, this entire movie he read as Kevin Connolly, famed Long Islander, Kevin Connolly from Entourage, you might recognize him. But his face, his voice in certain parts, I was like, I swear this guy is mimicking him. Something is going on here where I thought this was a different person. Aside from that, I thought this was gonna head into Shutter Island territory. And I was like, okay, that's fitting. And I'm actually okay with that. I'm hoping that it's Shutter Island meets obvious gaslighting and that we reveal everything that is true. And instead, they were like, oh no, no, no, that's way too simple, way too pedestrian. We gotta kick this up 50 notches and explode things in an unnecessary but fairly wild direction.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Exploding is such an interesting way to frame that because holy shit, this movie is a whole lot of nothing until it's a whole lot of something. It is littered in these moments of just, hey, if you look long enough, you realize something's not quite right here. And that feels very Twilight Zone. It feels very twin peaks. But the more you get towards the end of this movie, you realize not only the whole message that it's been sending this whole time, but how absolutely disgusting and brutal to take on that message is. And that is what's interesting here, right? This isn't conventionally scary. It's unsettling in some moments, it's absolutely fucking grotesque, but the exploitation of people. It's one of those things that's gonna make you feel like, okay, this is pretty fucking insidious. Like, this is the shit that is out there. This is obviously an allegory for that. This thing doesn't literally happen, but the spirit of it, not far off, 35 years later.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

It is kind of wild to imagine all the stuff in the news over the last five to ten years makes this film seem like child's play. Things that have been revealed and are yet to be revealed with what happens behind the shadows. It was kind of tame to me. It honestly was not really scary. And when we get to the final bombastic scenes, I was like, okay, it's not frightening in any way, but it's interesting now.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

The best word I can use to describe it is captivating. And maybe that's a little misleading. And I'm so sorry if you watch this film and you're like captivating, really? That's one way to put it. And it's like, yeah, it gets weird. It gets really weird, and you can't seem to look away, even though you really wish you did, because your brain is gonna be scarred with some images that you never thought your imagination could make up, but they did. And yeah, I'll never see a couple things the same way again. It's strange. But here's the thing I would say that this film was original because although the general theme is something that we've seen before, akin to Rosemary's Baby, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the Witches, like just rattling off a couple names there about general society and high society. But I do think that this film inspired the substance. I think there is a direct correlation there. I can see why it's been in conversation about that film, because there's some scenes and some special effects that it's like, oh, yeah, I can see where that inspiration is from. But also smile too to an extent, like the smile of it all, one and two, just a smidge. It's interesting. It's like a a great piece of this whole psychosis subgenre and horror and mental health and how that's frightening to an extent. And then taking the element of high society, which is a nice mix. But I just wish that the overarching film and the way that it was written made it a bit more exciting. Because I think as you watch it, you're probably like, oh, but we've seen this before. And it's like, yeah, but the parts that you haven't seen before make up for that.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah. And here's the thing about that: I want to echo every sentiment you shared with the addition that this is something that can be captivating if you are open and willing to be a captive audience. I think you have to be that. If you're trying to watch this and you're really in the mood and you're trying to watch it with a friend who's kind of like meh on it, they're not fucking latching on to this shit. Maybe they're there for the opening scene, but then once we get past the title card, they're probably out of it until the shunting. And that is the movie's biggest downfall, right? This movie is taking familiar territory with class welfare and putting a really original spin on it. And it's not to say that it's ineffective, but it's such a mixed bag. At least give it credit that it stands on its own two fucking legs or slithers on its own fucking wet back in a crowded room that kind of looks like an orgy. I wish this movie was about 20 minutes shorter so that we could have like really honed in on some of the parts that made it great.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

I'm going to agree with you there, but at the same time, I wish it was 30 minutes longer. And I wish that it was more jam-packed with actual story and actual self-doubt and psychosis and paranoia, but to a higher extreme. What we get here is very reminiscent of every movie that has that kind of element to it of everyone's trying to make me think I'm crazy and I'm seeing stuff that looks like it's not crazy, and I don't understand exactly what's going on. We have a lot of films like that. And we've had a lot in the 90s and 2000s as well. But I don't know, there's something about it that seems familiar. It's giving me Clive Barker for some reason, even though by this point, I think the only movies that would have come out from Clive Barker properties would have been like Hellraiser 1 and 2, perhaps. But it just is giving me that kind of feeling the whole time I'm watching it.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

It's because you're thinking about that one Cenabite that was really wet.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

That might be what it was.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

You know the one, the one who looked like he should have been in Nightmare Before Christmas. If you take the doctor from Nightmare Before Christmas and you make them bigger and rounder, it's that guy.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yeah, Butterball, I think, is who you're thinking of.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

That's exactly the one I'm thinking of.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Yeah, this is definitely kind of a reasonable movie for however long and then 20 minutes of Butterball.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

The name Butterball is fitting for this film, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Serve it up on the table. Wow, we love that. Listen, what is also wild about this movie when you talk about the 20 minutes of Butterball? This shit is weird. It's confusing, it's bizarre. It left me thinking, what the fuck was this ending? Now, that's not to say that I dislike it, because I think this ending is infuriating for exactly the reason why this story is still relevant today. So I think it's effective. And I think there's more to chew on there. But holy shit, how did we go to such an eruption and then just nothing? It's kind of like, not that I'm down like this, but I think we've equated movies to sex before. Imagine like doing some wild ass shit, and then all of a sudden the person next to you just like rolls over and just like goes to sleep with no cuddle, no debrief, no nothing, or just like it gets up and leaves. It's kind of like that, like an underwhelming way to wrap up the activity.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Can I take it further? Because I think everything that you just said is right. And at the end, what ends up happening is the person next to you eats vanilla pudding. They sit in a pair of khakis eating vanilla pudding, and then they just say, like, hiya, how's it going? That's kind of what the very end of the film is to completely turn you off and undo. Yes. It's like a bowl of mayonnaise right there at the end, after the most deranged stuff imaginable.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Hold on. I'm gonna rein us all fucking in right now because you just said bowl of mayonnaise after a sex analogy in which whoever you would be having sex with puts on beige khakis. Did you say eats yogurt or cereal? Either option is funny.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Vanilla, vanilla pudding.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Vanilla pudding, even worse, ladies and gentlemen. Even worse. Holy Christ. Listeners are gonna be like, do I watch this movie or do I not? I don't even know anymore. And I gotta tell you, the ending is why you should, for sure. And I want this is gonna be my PSA to all the ladies out there that might be listening that might actually have experienced this scenario and this analogy, because unfortunately, it does happen to some of us out there, right? Don't let this be what triggers you. Don't let this be the traumatic event that unlocks that memory. Let this be what replaces that. And I might regret that later on, actually, now that I'm saying that out loud. It's just that the imagery of this ending will make you forget that guy that ate vanilla pudding after having sex with you. There we go. That's all I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

It's so funny. Because right before that, though, it is absolutely just off the wall. It's insane, unexpected, yet somehow expected. But it works for a little bit. They've tried to add in some comedy throughout it. And I was like, okay, that's a bit of like a fart joke level comedy going on right there. The entire, like, deeper meaning is the comedy, I think, is what we needed. Instead, we got almost literally fart jokes. But that part was like, we've waited an hour to get something delivered, and here it is, finally, something absolutely wild, right? And the meaning behind the film there, I'm like, okay, we're feeling it, we're feeling it. You have to land it. You have to land the plane here. And instead, like we've said, they just cut it out, softly grazed some grass.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

This film evidently is not something that is effective in trying to tell some type of deep story or commentary on what the film's supposed to be about. At the end of the day, the way that I felt was like it's ultimately just a fun little body horror that should have had more body horror in it, but jam-packed it at the very end. So ultimately, this ending is great and effective because you spent a lot of time waiting for something that you thought was going to be sprinkled throughout, but they just like slammed it, you know, they jam-packed it in those last 20 minutes, and then you're kind of left like, what just happened to me? Like, what did I just watch? Where it's it's almost like overwhelming that ending.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

I cannot wait to see how this mixed bag of sentiment translates to scores. But before we get there, Mac, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Another mixed bag for an hour of this film, we are at a very low gore score. And then for the last 20 to 30 minutes, we're at a medium, medium high. Overall, I'm just gonna give the average of medium.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, I can't wait in the end of year recap to just have Sean watch this clip of this scene over and over again. We need to commit to that memory. And what about the animal report? All is safe in the society. Shockingly. Well, let's get into our ratings then. Society from 1989. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

I was expecting this to be weird, and it was weird in a different kind of way. I think I was expecting something truly deranged for the entire runtime, but instead what we got was something by today's standards that would be considered fairly normal. I think we've seen a lot of crazier stuff the last couple years, especially when it comes to body horror. Neon Demon is the thing that screams at me the most of like you can take it to 11. And this movie like took it to three. It was a bit boring for most of it, and it was also cheesy. The dialogue was cheesy, the acting was cheesy, and the fake outs we got along the way, they were kind of cheesy. It's interesting that people had a distaste for this in 1989, because I think now people will watch this and be like, that's not even fun enough to put into the theater, instead of thinking, oh, it's too wild for American audiences. So my how times have changed. That being said, it wasn't a horrible watch. It just took too long to get to the end, to be quite honest. I think the last 20-30 minutes should have been pretty much the entire film, and I would have been actually entertained. I'm not a huge fan of body horror or gore, so I'm thankful we didn't get too much, but they saved it all for one part. And that one part then became a bit too much. So it's got some pluses, it's got some minuses. I love social commentary, I love political commentary, especially when it's this on the nose, but overall it was a hack for me.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, I wasn't expecting a lot from this film, but what I was expecting was a lot of gross beehorror material. And did I get that? Yes. But like we keep saying, I got it a little too late. This film had a great first impression with the intro sequence and the title. It starts off on a good foot, but after a while, it gets a bit redundant. I almost wish that it had leaned a bit more into the mental health and the gaslighty nature of it all with some more excitement sprinkled into it. Mackiew had shared that sentiment too. But here's what I will say. It's quirky, it's weird. It's not the most original thing I've ever seen. It's certainly not a serious film. So don't even bother trying to psychoanalyze or take it serious because that wasn't even the intention. It's evidently really a satire, but not the funniest thing. But I'm going to say that ending, those last 20 minutes that we keep talking about is worth slashing this film for me. Because for all of its okayness, that ending alone was such a clusterfuck that I feel like I want to go and tell people, please watch this movie for those last 20 minutes and be in on the no. It's almost like one of those scenarios where you just want to drag your friends along for something that is just not really okay. You know, like an inside joke that you wish that you didn't even know yourself. And so now you have to bring all your friends in on it because you're probably a terrible person. That's kind of what I'm talking about here. I think it's a very big what the fuck is this? And it's fun and it's hilarious in those last 20 minutes. So just trudge through it if you can, maybe throw it on in the background type movie, most certainly. I think I've landed on a slash just for that ending alone. It's gonna be things that I've never, I don't know if I'm ever gonna see a movie like that again in terms of that kind of ending and the special effects.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah, I feel you. And Mac, big hack coming from you from a guy who slashed Leprechaun 4 in space. But check this out. This movie is quite the fucking ride. It has its place in horror history for sure, but it's not one that I'm going to be clamoring to revisit. I don't know that I ever want to see this movie again. But what I will say is that there are parts of this movie that are executed in an absolutely spectacular way, and there are some moments that I don't think I'm ever gonna get cleansed from my brain. The great thing, and where I think I don't really even struggle to give it a slash, is that this is a movie about growing up. This is a movie about lifting the veil, this is a movie about opening your eyes and realizing the world around you is not as innocent or as simple as you may have thought it was in your youth. What I love here is that Billy Warlock is very reminiscent of Mark Patton when he played Jesse in a nightmare on Elm Street 2, and it's also very reminiscent of They Live. Not in the fun, exciting way, but in the way of like, okay, there's something here that's beneath the surface. And there's a reason why this movie wasn't received well in the US when it first released, but I think structurally, despite how fucking bizarre it is, it's still sound and it's disappointing. I think one of the worst things about this movie is it's disappointing how relevant it still is today. But holy shit, it'll make you think, it'll make you puke, it's a slash. And with that, society from 1989, as selected by our patrons, has earned one hack and two slashes. If you've already seen this before, please let us know what you would rate it. You can join the Discord conversation about this film. There's a link for that in the show notes. If you haven't seen it yet, you can follow the link in our show notes to see where you can watch it right now. When we get back from our break, we're gonna dive deep into the spoiler zone territory and unpack that shunting scene. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

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SPEAKER_02 26:32

Welcome back, folks. You're now entering the spoiler zone for society, which is earned one hack and two sloshes. And we have a lot to unpack here, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Let's go through all of the two actual kills in this film because we have a couple fake outs along the way, but in the end, only two of them are real. What did you think of them?

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Well, Ted, I mean, obviously. Anything being pulled from your asshole is gonna be a win and a fave kill. Can we all agree? That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

1000%. And I actually let you go first, feeling like we would have had the same one. I thought maybe you'd surprise me and go for David first. But Ted, let's talk about how fucking ridiculous that shit was, because obviously that was just an excuse for them to kiss. Two, it was super wild, super absurd, super creative. What I did hate about it, and by hate I mean also kind of love a little bit, was how fucking weird it was because you got the bla bla bla bla like the floppy lips of it all look like a fucking Looney Tunes cartoon. And then you had obviously the puppetry of the eyes popping out of the skull. It looked like a wolf who's trying to say ooga.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

There was so much going on there, but it also was giving a little jonji to like uzumaki type shit. I don't know if you guys have read that manga or or they animated the manga on Max, which you can check out. But there is a particular section of the manga where these people start to turn into snails, which is fitting obviously for this movie. When I saw the eyes coming out, I was like, ah, this is a little uzumaki situation here. And I loved it. I thought it was very disgusting, very cool. Pulling his whole face in from his eye sockets was just next level. But yeah, the fact that they just were trying to create a situation in which they kissed, I was like, oh, look at that pride.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Yeah, you know what? Listen, how many times do they have women kissing films for the male gays? I think we got this for the female gays. And you know what? Good on you, Brian. I do think it's completely fucked up that this man got killed by getting fisted and pulled inside out the same way that you would put your hand up a shirt to flip it inside out. There is so much fisting in this ending. More fisting in this movie than I ever expected to see in a horror movie, to be honest. I think we could all agree on that. Now listen, and Jason Voorhees fisted Julius in Takes Manhattan, but he did that via decapitation. But this, no, they went inside. There was insertion.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Technically, still a decapitation from the insertion. Okay, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Well, but David suffered a very similar fate. I mean, he got the hand showing up through the mouth, but he didn't get turned inside out. Ted got his snoot pulled through his boot. Okay, so that thing was just completely discombobulated. Afterwards, he was just a lump of flesh. And when they looked, I love that they looked down, they're like, oh, that's toast, dude. We're done. That guy's cooked.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Don't touch him until he's congealed. Okay. 1000% that shit was fucked, but also holy shit, the sound effects and the sound design. I heard ooey, I heard gooey, I heard sticky, I heard congealed. These are not things that you should be hearing. They should be things that you're touching. And I could touch this movie through the fucking sound. That shit was gross.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

It was fucking gross. We're also not using a word because we don't want to damage people's ears, but you know the word, folks. Starts with an M. And boy oh boy, it's that too.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

At a certain point, when they first revealed themselves to be these shape-shifting weirdos, they legit had like lube all over themselves, more than the xenomorph ever could have had. And I'm actually curious what they used because we know in Alien that they just lubed that thing up, right? They just used every bit that they could buy from CVS. And this one is like, did they have to mass produce enough to cover 50 people in the most moistening of liquids?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Well, listen, it's the 80s. I mean, was KY Jelly a thing back then? Had to have been or something.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

It was that in the 70s. It's been around for a very long time. Yeah. They went so excessive on it that they outdid a sci-fi fucking alien. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

You can't talk about this movie without focusing on that entire act of like 50 different scenes. I feel like that's where most of the conversation production-wise is gonna focus on. Leading up to the actual finale, we're wandering through rooms and seeing all the different sites. And when Homeboy sees his parents, and I guess his adoptive sister as well, the thing that got me was his dad with his face on his butt. Butthead making the joke that he's a butt head because he got called a butt head earlier was not good. That was really weak fart joke level moment of comedy. Everything up to that point, though, like when he walks in and they're just a big old mess of human body parts and swirling and detaching. That's the kind of stuff I wish was sprinkled throughout the entire film because you're like, ew, what is that? Who is that? What's popping out? Whose face is that? That's just gnarly. That kind of stuff I think was cool. The Ubi-Gooy mess downstairs was pretty disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah, 1000%, which I think is part of what makes this movie so effective. This movie is a spectacle. And I think a lot of people could take notes from looking at the effects and the makeup in this movie because holy shit, I think that visual combined with again just that sound design, there's a lot in this movie that's very hit or miss for me, but the level of disgust that manifested itself in that last third of the movie, disgusting. This is where this movie made a name for itself.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

And quite frankly, with someone named, or Monikered, I should say, screaming Mad George, do you expect anything less? What a boss ass bitch. All right. And it's funny because my favorite scene from Nightmare on Elm Street 4 is the roach scene, because I fucking hate roaches and it's terrifying, and I think it's absolutely incredible. And that's Screaming Mad George work. It's fantastic. That's why I'm like, you've got to see this movie to see the shunting. And it's also why, quite frankly, it is my favorite scene. And who I mean, it's everyone's favorite scene, right? It's gotta be. But funny that you brought it up, Mac, in terms of the the funny or not so funny, dad joke or fart joke, whatever. But I loved the parents and the sister morphing into one body. I loved his dad coming out of an asshole. The mom and the sister being one body struggling to walk. That whole scene was so crazy, weird, disgusting, very also problematic and a little ancestral, all kinds of controversial, but so captivating in the sense of like, what am I even looking at? A face coming out of an asshole. When are you going to see that?

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Yeah, 1000%. The shunting is absolutely one of the best scenes in this movie, if not the defining scene of the movie. But I want to go back to something that you said about the incestuousness of it all. There's a reason why I said Amityville 2 possession, and it's because of that energy between the brother and sister. One of the other best scenes for me in this movie is one that starts off really fucking weird, but it is that early taste of oh, something's very wrong here. Not just because of how wrong it already felt, but there's something else that's going on. And that's Bill walking into the bathroom, and then he's getting fucking weird. What possesses him to even go towards the shower? I don't know. There's some weird shit going on there. But the more you look, and it seemed like perhaps maybe it started off innocently enough to trying to speak, and then you know there was no acknowledgement. But the more you look and you realize that her torso is twisted on her hind legs, wow. The framing of that, and then also the fact that it's against the foggy, steamy glass, that is like a cheap shot to show off a woman's nude figure in almost every movie. But at least here it served a purpose, and it also serves a purpose later on when we get another figure in bed, and there are these quick flashes of oh, there's something wrong here.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Well, what's interesting is that particular scene was added in post-production because Brian Usena thought he needed to add some more shocking gore scenes to capture people's attention earlier on in the film. And it's like, yeah, buddy, good job on that part, but we needed even more than that. Imagine what the film would have been if he hadn't.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

100%. It would have been absolutely terrible and boring because without that, and not that it even has to be nude, right? I think he could have achieved this in other ways too. If we didn't have that at all, and it all just felt like this was in Billy's mind, I wouldn't have given a fuck that it was real. I would have been like, ugh, all right, it's probably another fucking hallucination and put me out of my misery with this movie. But the fact that we got a little bit here and there felt really good.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

I think there were some really good moments building up, trying to show that this thing runs deeper than we might imagine. We have the scene with his therapist and the tape. That whole, you know, homeboy's been like recording my family, but we're friends now because he's like proving something. That was a little bit unbelievable. When he delivers that tape and his therapist is like, I don't know what you're talking about, everything's normal here. I was like, dude, this obviously runs way deeper than you thought. It's not just your family, it's gotta be massive. Obviously, we know as the viewer that it's going to be massive, but that I kind of liked. When he met his little love interest and they were hooking up and her body was twisted. Same thing there. Give me more of that. I think that's the kind of thing you sprinkle in throughout the movie to really catch us off guard in a normal moment. It is giving me like the devil's advocate for some reason. Like that movie has some really weird twisting of bodies, and I love that you can have strange stuff happening along the way, but I think you're right they needed that. Without the scene of his sister in the shower, it would have been a little bit too boring. Five more of those scenes would have been way more interesting. Give me some hints on who's in on this or potentially in on it, but make us doubt the main character, make us think perhaps it's all on his mind. It was too obvious too early that it wasn't. And it would have been more interesting to have these little moments of, oh my gosh, it has to be just absolutely wild. And then, ooh, no, it's grounding. This is something that's going on. Make us question things just like you're making him question things. I love those moments where we get that. I love the moments with the tape. That was a great one. And then the other moment with his little girlfriend, absolutely 100% here for it.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Okay, you bring out the little girlfriend of it all, Clarissa. She's one of them. She turns from the elite, she breaks from society. What were your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 37:33

It wasn't really clear enough why she would, because she can't be that in love with him, to be honest, unless you flesh out the fact that she is, which we didn't get.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

I spent the entire time feeling like, when are we gonna get to the part where she betrays him or something? And then that never happens. And I'm like, wait, so she really did like him the whole time? I didn't even believe a bit of the chemistry.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Yeah, my other big question, not just about her, her mother.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Never an answer. First of all, the mother doesn't even look like she's that much older than her. So what was that? At any point, I was like, are we gonna get some kind of weird explanation for why her mother is like that? Like, is she some byproduct of the society and the shunting that went wrong and wasn't fully evolved post-shunting? We had no answer for that. Also, her makeup, somebody help her. Who also goes up to their mom with like an open robe like that, acting all cool after hooking up with, I don't know, so many things. That doesn't add up at all.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

This is something I really want to hear from our listeners on if they're more experienced with this movie, if they know a bit more. When I was trying to look this up, I'm like, what the fuck was going on here? I know that there was some kind of like commentary or interview that Brian Yesna gave where you kind of acknowledge, like, we're just kind of going with it, right? She's there. Not everything had an answer for this movie, and this was one of those things that wasn't completely baked, but I would love to know more on that. I find that this movie was tough to find quite a bit of material on.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

It seems like, like you just explained, perhaps that's because there wasn't the original material to base it off of. It was like they were going with it. It did, it did feel like that. You know, I'm a huge Stargate fan, both the movie and the TV shows, the mini shows. And there's bad guys in there, and they are symbiotes, and they take over human bodies and stuff like that. But then there's some other symbiotes that used to be them and split off and splintered, and now they're good guys. And it would have been really interesting had there been a moment like that where it was explained that perhaps this family is part of a small minority that isn't as evil as this big, bad, evil society is. But no, that's reaching. There's nothing to that level here.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

It does make me wish that we got more from the other characters in the movie. And this is where I talked about the movie feeling too long. This thing's like an hour and 40 minutes, and it could have been 20 minutes shorter with what we got because I don't feel like we got enough character development for there to be the justification of that additional 20 minutes, right? Give me a tight 120, but if you're gonna give me a fucking loose 140, then I want to fucking know exactly why Clarissa's in love with him. I want to know exactly what's up with her mom. And that's where I think there's a struggle with the characters. Billy Warlock shines. It's great. I don't have any complaints about him. I think the mother, the father, and the sister Jenny, yeah, they do well enough to be eerie and like oddly together and cohesive, and they feel uncanny in so many ways, but this movie was still missing something from me.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

It reminds me of art. If you're painting and you want to paint a fruit stand and you've never painted before, you're gonna start with an apple and an orange and a banana, and you're gonna get those things right before you can do the entire fruit stand. I think there were ingredients here to these characters that they could have played with, but the fact that he had a girlfriend and then he met this other girl, and then oops, she got mad at him for cheating on her, whatever, slim that down. There only needed to be one girl in his life, and it needed to be Clarissa Explains It All.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

That's all we needed. We need the love story between them that's fleshed out by the end of the movie, not too much, but just show the building happen along the way. The same thing with the 50 different friends and other guys at the school who are making fun, like way too many people. You have one jerk, okay, and then he has a group of friends. We don't even need to get to know them that well. Our main character needs one best friend, which we kind of got here, but then we also had a dude that was stalking his sister that he was also kind of friends with. Too many elements. I think perhaps this is early filmmaking, maybe that's why. Maybe things got better for Uzna. I don't know. But here I just think we just have too many items in focus and we need to streamline that.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Yeah, no, 100%. Listen, redo this movie. Give me the Billy and Clarissa Meet Cute, where she gives him a little money shot with the lotion on the beach. That's the beginning of their story. That's it. That's all we needed. He they could have gone from there, and then we could have escalated. Then she could have been tantalizing him at the debate stage where he made a fool out of himself.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

And that's how we also connect this movie to Infinity Pool. Look at that.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Oh my. Well, I think that brings me to speaking of in public, one of my favorite parts of this movie was the fact that the entire town was in on it, or at least most of the town. They didn't really leave anyone out. We had people in charge of, I don't know, the school. We had people who were like EMTs and stuff, and cops who were in on it. Obviously, his family. If you're gonna have something that goes this deep, it's really nice to draw in as many people as you can and show that there's no way out of it, even though technically there was a way out.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

See, this is where I struggle because this is in some ways the best and worst part of this movie for me. The social elite are not defeated, they leave without consequence, and in some ways it's infuriating because it's like, okay, all you have to do is run out the door, nobody else is gonna stop you. But then on the other hand, it's the more insidious lurking of like they don't have to try to stop him because they're always gonna win. What is his escape gonna do for them? What is he really gonna jeopardize? What is he really gonna hurt? Because that is the confidence and the lack of fear that comes with that much wealth and that much power. So I'm torn. I think the ending of this movie is in some ways the best and worst part of the I can see that.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

For me, the worst part is just the potential that it could have had and it not being fulfilled in general. I think of how cool it is to have such an intensely shocking ending and scene like the shunting in a film that talks about class, the power of the rich, and the whole suburbia of it. And I'm like, man, it would have been really cool to see both an effective satire, but also leaning a bit more into the horror, the fright, and the commentary. I I think that redoing this film again would be very interesting and seeing what it looks like in modern day. Maybe I'll regret that if they ever do, because it might get watered down. I don't know how a face coming out of an asshole is gonna sit with modern audiences. It could be fun for me, could be an entertaining time at least. But I think ultimately, even throughout this episode, we've talked a lot about like what could have been what we wish we had seen and all that. And so it's like, man, when you don't get what you were expecting, you kind of just have to sit with it being okay and just mid. So I don't regret my slash, but it's really only because of 20 minutes out of what did we say, like an hour and 40, maybe a little bit less than that.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Hour and 40.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

How sad is that?

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Well, I think part of that struggle, right? The fact that the last 20 minutes of it is what's worthwhile is exactly why this is like a one and done experience for me. I feel like I saw what I needed to see. There's more I want to learn about it. There's more I want to study about this movie for sure. I'll watch clips of it. I don't know that I want to sit through the entirety of this movie again.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yeah, I agree. I had started to see it with a friend of mine, and we didn't end up finishing the film, so I just watched it by myself. But I really want them to experience that ending. It's one of those situations where, like, could we just maybe fast forward to the ending? I'll kind of fill you in in the middle because there's no real need to know. I just want to witness people watching that ending. Again, crazy. I'll probably lose friendships over it, but it's just that insane.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Okay, hear me out. Productivity date. You're watching them on FaceTime, watch the movie while you do some other shit.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Love that. We love a good multitasking situation.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Absolutely. You can chime in for the moments that really matter.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Parallel play is a great thing. So I'm here for that. But when it comes to re-watching this film, Chris, you're right, it's one and done. However, if A24 were to go into the archives, pick this up, look at it, put together a team to make another one. I could see that being really good. And I would be here for a remake, even though remakes, you know, 50-50, good or bad. But this particular film, no, I think once was enough.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Well, once was enough indeed. And there you have it, folks. Society from 1989, as chosen by our patrons, has earned one hack and two slashes. We've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

If you want to find out how you can go further than this episode, consider supporting the show by visiting patreon.com/slash hackerslash, where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes with our B sides, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

And if you'd like to pledge your allegiance to our society, leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcast. This helps us continue to deliver great content for all you horror fiends out there.