423: Silent Night, Deadly Night (2025)

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Oh god, not the Michael Orgasm.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Jesus' greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hackers Lodge. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Here we go again. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

A total joke? A waste of time? Or a splash.

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Totally killer. Unintended. We believe horror is for everyone, and at such a rating these movies with the perspective we've gained from our varied walks of life and the flavors of fear we fancy most. My name is Chris, I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Do you like pickles on your hamburger?

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And the paranormal pair more thinks. Naughty boys get punished. This week we're checking out the latest remake of a classic Christmas Slosher.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

And if you support the show, you'll also get to hear our B-side at the end of this episode where we dive into holiday horror.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

And speaking of that holiday horror, back in episode 191, we reviewed a film that featured a young boy who watches the murder of his parents at the hands of a man dressed as Santa. And the film actually explored how that trauma shapes him as he reaches adulthood. While that film was picketed and boycotted by Angry Citizens who ultimately cut its theatrical release short, it earned a cult following and sparked an entire franchise. A franchise with a new entry now in 2025. The film still follows a boy who watches his parents be murdered at the hands of Santa. And while it still explores how that trauma shapes him, director Mike P. Nelson has even more to the story hidden up his sleeves. This week we're talking about Silent Night, Deadly Night. What were you both expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Honestly, I have zero context of this franchise as a whole. I've never seen the original. So aside from all of that, I expected a little bit of maybe camp, some bad acting, I'm not gonna lie. But went into this completely blind, zero clue about what it was gonna be about.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, I too haven't seen a whole lot of the franchise or the universe as a whole. I've seen the original 1984, and the original has become this cult classic holiday slasher that I usually get around to watching during the holiday season. And when this movie was announced, I originally was wondering if this was going to be close to the original. Then I was watching some early reviews on the movie that and found that it was gonna be more of this retelling, reboot, whatever you want to call it. So I'm just hoping that this one gets a modern makeover that brings it a refreshing breath of new life.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

The biggest expectation I had was fun. Silent Night, Deadly Night is a little gross in some spots, but it's actually just a lot of fun. And that's what I was looking forward to most. Now, a apprehension that I had was worried that we're gonna get more Corey Cunningham. I wasn't down to clown with Corey Cunningham 2.0. No shade to Rowan. I am confident he can do a great job. And it's not even that I think he played his part poorly in Halloween End. It's not by any means, but I just don't want to see that same type of character. And when we got into this movie, I realized, wow, we have some things that are the same. We have a lot of things that are different. We also have some sneaky things that are similar. When I was going through this entire experience, I found myself feeling like it was peaks and valleys, a little bit of a roller coaster, but in its best moments, this movie was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

I could feel the fun of it all for sure, but I think one of the biggest things that I felt while watching this one was really the tonal shift, especially compared to the original. And I know we aren't doing an old versus new, and I kind of wish we were because I really think it's interesting the differences between the two films. And there is this conflict that you begin to feel in this one. You initially start to feel sympathy for Billy and his trauma, and then you begin feeling weird about that, but you almost can't help it. And it makes for this very interesting watch that I feel like feels a lot different than the original.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, and I think that going into this pretty blind at least worked in its favor for me because I was surprised by how much of a good time I had. You said, Chris, that it was fun, and I honestly I had a good time. I thought it was pretty funny and entertaining, despite just a little bit of the ethical issues per se that the movie is about, right? And our lead character. But I I think when the expectations are pretty low, you can perhaps overlook a couple of cliche things here and there, some choices that are made that you don't quite understand why they were done, or it's very obvious that it's maybe to drive the plot along. I think maybe if you take it a little too seriously, you might have some moments that will lead you to like eye roll a bit, but let it go and have a good time. I think that what I wasn't expecting and what I ended up feeling a majority of the time was that this was like a almost like an action film and slasher mix with a little bit of comedy, dark comedy for sure. I want to emphasize that part, but that was something that I wasn't anticipating when it comes to a horror slasher like this, especially set in the holiday.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

I wish I could latch on to all of the fun energy. And I know a moment ago I just said when this movie's at its best, it's a lot of fun. And it is, for sure. But what was disappointing to me was how many moments there were where I wasn't having fun, where I really was thinking, like, damn, Corey Cunningham, back at it again, bro. I wish this had a little bit more. Not to say that the original Silent Night, Deadly Night wasn't a little bit dark in its own moments, but there is a certain air of levity that is missing from this movie. And I can't quite put my finger on exactly where it falls short in that regard. But I think it's because this positions itself to be almost a take on so many different aspects of a killer, so many different layers of a killer. And there's a whole subplot in this movie that is completely absent from the original. So when I talk about the surprises here, there really is a lot that this film pulls from the original, but it also jams in a lot of other stuff. I think the waters are just a little bit too muddied, and like the tones are just completely different.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

The subplot is for sure a thing in this one, but I think one of the things that I missed in this one that surprised me, or maybe even was a disappointment, was I missed that slasher vibe. And it's not for a lack of kills, it just didn't feel like we truly committed to being a slasher, and I was surprised at how character-driven this movie was. The movie wants your sympathy. The romance isn't a side plot in this one, and because of this, I feel like it's less shocking than the original, it's less mean-spirited than the original, than the original, it's less grindhouse, it's far less controversial. But the other thing that I think that surprised me was, to your point, this underlying story, this underlying subplot that's far darker than the story that sits on the surface of this film.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Man, I can't wait for us to get into the spoiler zone so that I can kind of be in the know because I think I have an idea of maybe what the subplot that we're talking about may be. I think for me, I just kind of went with a flow with some of the themes here and like the introduction or the mythos of what's going on in this film. Some of it doesn't quite make sense, but I was like, okay. And if anything, I was kind of surprised by the gore and the blood, the actual victims of the killings. I think all of that surprised me. I just didn't know that that's what the movie was gonna be about or what they were going to introduce. So I think that's what felt shocking to me. But you mentioned in terms of the tone and like the levity that it was missing. That's so interesting because it makes me so curious about the original. For me, I felt that the movie was pretty light and again had that like comedic sense to it because of the editing. That's what surprised me the most. It felt very engaging and fun. There were moments that reminded me of Tarantino's Hateful Eight or Inglorious Bastards, just the way that it was approached. But keeping that in mind, I think that's also what made the film not really scary. I I, if anything, that's also what's a little disappointing, right? It didn't feel very scary. I think there was certainly some graphic material here that the main character gets into. But I think if you're prone to jump scares or you're expecting like a real slasher intimidation type horror film, you're not gonna get it here.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Okay, so I feel like we are on, I wouldn't say completely opposite ends of the spectrum, but where this movie shifts in its tone with how it handles punishment in particular. The first movie, there is some messed up stuff that's happening. One of the inciting incidents of A, the entire movie, but then B, when a certain character kind of kicks into gear in the second half of the movie, it's sparked from something absolutely horrific. But the rest of what happens in that film is like your classic standard slasher fair. You're just like getting mad at people for having sex. That's generally what it is. But in this one, the punishment is very different and very aligned with the horrors of the real world. And that's where I think this movie, with its grindhouse cuts, does lean towards okay, we're gonna have a fucking good time with this. It's almost like that Corey Cunningham quote. It's Halloween, we're gonna have a good time tonight. You think you're gonna get that in Silent Eye, Deadly Night, and you largely do. Again, there's one incredible scene that was published online before this movie even like officially released, and people have been watching it on loop instead of seeing this movie in the theater.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

A big moment. The biggest moment. The biggest moment of the whole film.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

You're joking. And I'm so glad I saved it for watching in the theater. I heard about what it was. I chose specifically not to watch it, and I'm glad I got to experience it in the movie. But all that to say, what this movie tackles is so much more serious than anything in the original. So again, that doesn't make it scary, but I think this movie looks directly in the eye of a lot of the hypocrisy and the predatory behaviors that exist right now. And I think Mike P. Nelson did a great job tackling that.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, it's interesting because you feel so aligned with the punishment. That's the biggest thing. So it's hard to feel truly scary. And I can't tell if they wanted this to be scary. Either way, it didn't end up being scary. Obviously, we're talking about it. There's no jump scares, it doesn't try to make you feel like you're wanting the it doesn't want you to get the hairs on the back of your neck to stand up or you to get goosebumps or chills or anything crazy like that. It tries to make you feel for the antagonist. So, yeah, this one is not a movie that will scratch the itch of wanting to feel scared, right? But it might scratch the itch of holiday horror if you're just in the mood for like some fun holiday horror nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Here's the thing though. The one caveat I want to lead this discussion with, this movie is getting an incredibly limited theatrical runner. And it's limited also largely because it's unrated. And the distributor really wanted to align and play off of what success Terrifier had. But this movie did not deserve that. This movie for as many kills as you get, for as many, as many really violent moments that you get, there is less nudity and less sex in this movie than there was in the original. So there's take that off the table. And then if you don't include then, I mean, not to say that there's there is a violence in this, but it just is not aligned where I think our expectation has come to be of these unrated, limited theatrical releases that we've seen in the last couple years.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Well, to be fair, you can't promote a movie and entice people with terrify or anything and then come into this movie and not be anywhere near it.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, it's just a little fucking switch. It's a little blue ballin'. That has to be illegal. That's incredible. That's really silly. No, I mean, listen, you can't come here and tell me that this is gonna be terrifier and I walk in and I basically get the most vanilla version of that. And so interesting though that the original seems to be way more aggressive and intense.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

I should be clear, it's not that it's more aggressive and intense. I mean it's an 80s slasher. This has, I think, by and large, more gore in that. But it was the 80s, right? You have nudity. I think a lot of people are complaining about the lack of ta-tas in this movie. I personally am totally fine with that. But what I'm saying is this feels violent, but also somehow cleaner. And yet here we are, still it's still on unrated. I don't know, it's just a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

The original is also very just controversial because people at that time just didn't want Santa killing people, so they were like literally picketing in front of theaters and trying to get this movie taken out of theaters.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

And then we got Art the Clown doing his nonsense in Terrifier 3 last year, and Christmas is no longer still. Where are those parents? Where are the We don't give a fuck?

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Can't stop us. No pick no picketing anymore, that's for sure. That's that's really interesting. And I gotta tell you, I mean, I'm super intrigued, and I really want to watch the original now. And I feel like when we talk about this film in a silo, it's I don't think it's quite original, regardless of it being a part of a franchise or not. Because it seems very reminiscent of a couple of themes here that we've kind of explored, not just in horror, but in action films and dramas, etc. Right. So not to kind of give too much away with that, but I think that thematically it seems pretty commonplace. The only difference is maybe just the fact that it involves Santa, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, it's interesting because you're right, like on the on the surface, like this isn't a movie that we haven't necessarily seen before. We've seen a lot of elements in this movie and other movies, but I think what stands out is that this is one of those films that tries to carve out its own identity while still honoring the original. And for the most part, when compared to the original, it did just that. I feel like it feels so different from the original, but still has these little moments that call back to the original, but it's it's definitely not a rinse and repeat, it's not a remake.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

100%. This has so many key differences that it really feels to be more like Halloween ends than it does Silent Night, Deadly Night. And there are a lot. We can go down the list in the spoiler zone of some of the big moments that stand out that are very similar or the themes, etc. But this feels like two completely different movies, and that's not to say that they dropped the ball. This was done with a lot of intention, and it's a spiritual successor and reboot and a reimagining of the story versus just trying to remake it. And I can respect the direction that it went in. There's just some moments of it that didn't ring true for me in terms of like really enjoying the way it was handled, and honestly, one of those parts is the ending.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Ah, the ending. I was wondering in the final moments if the movie was going to go in this direction, and sure enough, it did. It went in that direction. I honestly don't know also how I feel about it. I've been thinking about it since watching this movie. And if their plan is to continue this story and try to reboot this entire franchise, it could be interesting or it could just be really bad.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

It could be, but also it feels a little mid for me. And it's less about the premise and the basic idea on paper, and more about how it came together at the end. It just didn't resonate for me at all. By the end, I mean like the last final moments of the movie. The third act, some of the big climactic moments that we get. Great, there's some tension there. There is an element of the ending in the third act that feels genuinely like, oh, that's fucked up. But where we end up and just like the way that comes together.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, I think in some ways, maybe you can call the ending from a mile away, but you certainly, like you mentioned, Sean, you're kind of hoping that maybe it won't go that way, or you could be curious most certainly, but I gotta agree with you, Chris. It's like the last do we want to dare say maybe five minutes exactly? Some choices there that feel very obvious that it's to set up an ending that potentially could be continuing the franchise or what they're gonna do with it, who knows? You really have to overlook a couple things to be able to buy into how this all ends.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

You sure do, and I cannot wait to see how this ending in particular impacts our ratings. But before we get there, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 18:15

With the amount of kills that we get in this movie, I was actually surprised by how low the gore level was in this movie. And I know that I'm really hyping up the kill count in this one, but I assure you it's not that exciting. And we will break it down in just a bit when we get to the second half. The kills are clean, quick, and story-driven in this movie. There is, I think, very little lingering on wounds and aftermath, and most of the kills are direct, but not indulgent, if you know what I mean. And the camera often cuts away before things even get too graphic. So you're not you're just not seeing a lot of the gore. We're missing a lot of key opportunities to have some really nice gore. And I think the focus is on impact and consequence in this movie rather than anatomy and shock value. So this one's earning a low gore score in my book.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Which is just so insane when you really I cannot wait, folks. If you haven't seen this movie yet, and you if you have, okay, you're gonna be with us in the second half of this episode when we get through the body count, when Sean gives us the sleigh by sleigh. Brace yourself and remember that this is a low gore score, because it shouldn't have been. But what about the animal report?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

At least with the animal report, I can happily say that no animals die on this silent and deadly night.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Let's go ahead and get into our readings. Silent Night, Deadly Night, the remake from 2025. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

I can start us off. I gotta say, just right off the bat, when you're in the business of a holiday horror, you already kind of have a leg up with me because it just feels like such a stark difference from what the season means and inspires for some people. Maybe that makes me a weird, gloomy person. I don't know. But I really do like holiday horrors. I think they're so fun to watch. It's like the opposite of what you're experiencing in your day-to-day with all of the happiness and smiles and cheer. That said, I figured that this would be pretty camp and maybe not my cup of tea, but I allowed myself to not take it so seriously. And I think as a result, I had a fun time. I think maybe that in part has to do with me watching the movie completely by myself in the theater and just like being able to like make a couple comments out loud because I felt like I was in my own living room at that point, right? It was killer, quite literally, and with some bit funny bits of dialogue, maybe some silly cliche scenes, you know. And for me, definitely what felt like some satisfying kills, that's for sure. I had a really entertaining and good time. Now, there is certainly some plot armor here that is clear as day, but you have to kind of move past that if you can and remind yourself you're just watching a killer Santa go to town and do his thing. All right. And you'll end up having a great laugh and an even better time when you accept that as reality. For me, I have to admit, this was a surprising slash in my book, and I would happily rewatch this next holiday season, but this time I definitely want to experience it with others because I think we'd have a great time together.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

You know, I'm loving the holiday cheer that you have going on, Binks. I think that's really, really great. Listen, when you go into movies like this, holiday horror movies, no one is actually going into these movies expecting it to be like top-tier horror. You just don't. And if you do, I'm sorry. You're gonna be disappointed. But I think that's what it is. You're just here to have a good time with these holiday horror movies. And Silent Night, Deadly Night from 2025 is a reimagining that knows it can't shock the world the way the 1984 original did. So instead, it takes a riskier route. It slows down, it gets a little introspective and asks you to feel something before it ever even asks you to fly. And the result is a holiday slasher that's less about the body count, even though the body count is quite high in this one, and more about emotional discomfort, moral tension, and really just what happens when trauma gets wrapped in tinsel and twisted into a belief system. And this version of the story, it might frustrate viewers, especially if you're a fan of the cult classic original from the 80s. If you're expecting a meaner, more graphic style slasher, you're probably going to be disappointed. And I was too, admittedly, at first. But I still had a good time, just like you Binks, with this one, especially if you can accept that it's not trying to be exactly what the first one was. And while it doesn't fully escape pacing issues or tonal clashes, it does succeed more often than it stumbles. And I think it's a pretty decent holiday horror movie and a pretty good reimagining of a cult classic that chooses this introspection, if you will, over excess. And all in all, you know, this Santa doesn't deliver coal or presents, he delivers consequences. And that's enough to earn this one a deserving slash through the nice list in my book.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

I want you to know that the central location of the majority of this movie is a place called Hack It. And I really, in a lot of moments in this movie, felt like, damn, I really am about to hack it. They really just said it themselves, didn't they? Because where you say Santa doesn't just deliver coal and all that stuff, I feel like if Santa dropped off this movie in a bag, it is represented by some mixes of coal and some presence. So where it comes down is having to really examine how many parts of this movie I really do enjoy. Luckily for this movie, there is a big moment in this that is so satisfying. And listen, I think I get why they released it because I think we all needed this right now. I think we all needed this, and I think A also knew that this was the only way people are gonna go to the theater and watch this, unless they're like normally into watching horror movies. There are some parts of this movie that are exceptionally satisfying. There is something magnetic about this movie, and even though I walked out of the theater less than thrilled with it, I still haven't been able to stop thinking about it. And it's specifically because I think Mike P. Nelson has a lot to say with the choices that he's made in this movie specifically. So while I really started climbing down that chimney thinking I was gonna hack it, I just managed to slash it. It's not gonna be my Christmas rotation every year though. But Silent Night, Deadly Night 2025, has earned thus far a universal slash. Now you can see this movie in theaters right now, or you can check the link in our show notes to see where you can find it. Either way, check it out, then join us in the second half we can break down these spoilers together. We'll see you in a bit.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

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SPEAKER_02 27:24

And we have a lot to unpack here in St. Nick Sack, but before we get into the specifics of our ratings, let's go through those kills.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

The body count actually looks like Santa's fucking list. That's how long the body count is in this movie. Truly a feat to try to get all of these down. Luckily, it's only extremely high primarily due to one specific scene. I know we've been hyping this up, and let me tell you, we have a total of 51 kills in this movie, and that's not even counting some of the missing children abducted by the snatcher, or maybe even Pam's mom, or anyone like that that we didn't actually see in any way on the screen. The wild thing is that with this high of a body count, it still finds a way to feel a bit underwhelming, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah, but the one thing you can absolutely say is not underwhelming is let's talk about it. Nothing says Christmas like killing Nazis.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Amen. Absolutely. I gotta tell you my reaction during that scene. My first thought is okay, he gets to a party, a bee horror type situation. They love a good party scene. Okay. Everybody in their little outfits, cute, cute. When I saw that symbol, I said, wait a minute. Like what I said, what? Out loud in the middle of the theater. Thank God I was by myself. I really was stunned. Because at this point already, with the way that they were doing the editing, I mentioned it just a moment ago, right? It was giving Tarantino Inglorious Bastards Hateful Eight, like the way that he likes to chapter break everything, right? I didn't think it was literally going to be in Glorious Bastards.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I mean How could you?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

How could I?

SPEAKER_00 29:09

I was shocked at first, and then I realized that this isn't uncommon for low budget horror. And I don't even know that this is low budget, but there's so many horror movies that have chosen to incorporate Nazis in some kind of way.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

I think the last I can recall, at least off the top of my head, was American Werewolf in London. The Nazi werewolves.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Yeah, Nazi werewolves are very actually, I feel like more common than just that movie. There's there's all kinds of weird shit out there with Nazis and horror. And one of the Nazi kills I think that stood out the most, and probably one of the only kills that is actually worth talking about is when the Nazi Santa gets his guts spilled out.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah. See, that's where it had the potential to do a whole lot more. And when we glimpse the intestines spilling out of the body, I thought, where was this the rest of the fucking movie? Give me more of that.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Yeah, I can definitely feel underwhelming, that's for sure. I mean, I had a good time with the kills, but I didn't realize that it was unrated. So I think with that context in mind, it's like, wait, this could have been could have really gone with no limits. Like we really could have taken it there and then we just kept it real safe. That's an interesting choice.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

100%. And actually, I want to just cite a song here. And I know Binx is going to really just clown on me for this, but it's important because the lyrics are absolutely relevant. I want more. More than I probably should. More than I probably ever, ever could have. I want more. Those are lyrics from Greece Rise of the Pink Lake. Of course. A song called I Want More. Incredible. Mercedes performed this song and filmed it while she had like an injured injured ribs and did incredible choreography. But that's what that scene left me wanting the entire movie. I just want more. I wanted more of the intestines. I wanted more of the Nazis to go. Delphine, it really be your own people sometimes. She mowed down quite a number of them. Sean by your kind of thing six to ten.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

She killed anywhere from six to ten of her own people. It's hard to actually know for sure because I feel like the what they showed us actually dying and what we ended up with on the floor, and there was like nobody left standing, was a little bit odd. But yeah, crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah, but I do love the moment where she's on her four-wheeler and she gets decapitated because that is a killer that does come from the original movie.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

True. It was a nice, it was definitely a nice callback. But we need more of that stuff. Like, even when we're getting the the chainsaw where we're going down and drilling into the body with the chainsaw, we're not seeing it really.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Like it's a Yeah, honestly, he whipped around that corner and I was like, wait, you're not art. Get the fuck out of here. I only want art with a chainsaw and a Christmas suit.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Missed opportunities here.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Dang. Okay, interesting. So that is one of the one of the kills that's an homage to the original. That's interesting. But I I gotta tell you, whether it could have been more or not, that kill, especially Delphine's, was quite great. It felt real good. Could have been more, certainly. But I did enjoy that kill. Now, my question, and one of the things that we I guess have to overlook, or maybe she just quite literally doesn't give a damn, which expected from a Nazi human being, but she clearly practices with her gun. I mean, we see a pretty fucked up, I guess, vision, I suppose, of what she's done and how she's killed her people, and suddenly she's just losing her shit with her gun and just not a sharpshooter anymore. She's just like spraying everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

It's the spraying prey, baby. But here's the thing not only is she unable to do it, because I could ad I could at least recognize a potential challenge trying to hit a moving target when all the targets look semi-similar. They're wearing the same thing. He was so you can't where's Waldorf? He's there, and he's limping, he's the slowest one moving around. Delphine, terrible, absolutely terrible for many reasons. Also inept. I don't know how she managed to kill that many people, quite frankly. It's like she had stormtrooper. Actually, there it is. There it is. There it is. There it is. She's a stormtrooper.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

It's the stormtrooper of all of it all. It's literally, obviously, they want you to know and live in this space where it's just everyone's wearing the Santa suit. That's really what it is. It's just so hilarious that she just openly fires upon anything and everything in a Santa suit, and then only afterwards, and there's nobody left to shoot, she's like, whoops.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Rotro. Okay, so I want to get your take though, Sean. How did you feel? Not only with the grandfather dying in the beginning this time around, but also dying at the hands of his own kid and signing over the inheritance. Because that is different from the original film.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

So different. I'm gonna be honest. At first I was a little bit disappointed in the direction that they went in because the first one is so like what's the word? Just off the walls in zany. Like you're just watching. I don't know. I don't want to ruin it for Binks if you're gonna watch it, but it's just so different because in the first one, the grandpa's this sadistic little guy. Like he's just he's like comatose, you would think, when you when you open up the movie, like he's not talking to anybody, that they're talking to him, he's not responding. Then they leave the room and he turns over to the kid and starts like being all fucking kinds of weird and talking about how Santa's gonna like come for the naughty boys, and he's got this evil little laugh in this whole thing. And then in this one, you don't get any of that, right? That's not a thing in this one at all. But then once you fucking uncover that the parents actually killed their own the old granddad, that's fucked up. It's a little dark.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

I will say that it felt super apparent. I mean, obviously, they make it very obvious, especially Jeffrey, they did something that reacted badly with his medicines. But even from the body language of him first coming out, it felt apparent this is going in a very different direction because it's just such a deviation from the original. And it's not that even it's a bad thing. I think if anything, it makes Billy more of a semi-sympathetic person because of what he experiences in the first. And I recognize now damn it, thanks. I can't I can't keep talking about the original film because you haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

No, it's okay. Go ahead. I mean, listen, it's not gonna change my scratch scratching out my notes.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Scratching out my notes. But one thing that I deeply appreciated, and I know we're still on kills here for a little bit, but when we have George who is killed with the axe at his head, but then to circle back at the end of the movie, and this is where you recognize that he only punishes people who are absolutely heinous and not just inconsequentially bad, because that's what you might think. Poor old George, what'd you do? You're just jealous of him and Pammy. But no, he absolutely murdered his wife.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

That was a great reveal. That was an extreme reveal because I wrote in my notes I was like, okay, so the guy's a little handsy. All right, I can see where maybe he's gotta get going, you know? But to an extreme that he full-on murdered his wife intense.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah. The murdering the wife, rolling her up in the carpet, and shoving her like in the crawl space for years and years. And listen, God only knows what it smelled like in that house. It's gotta be bad.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

Okay, my concern is how did no one notice? Because that was such an extreme level of decomposition, and his daughter and her kid felt so comfortable and just settled in that obviously they've been to the house.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah, of course. They're they're like, oh, he just smells bad.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Look, but that's my problem with just all of the kills to an extent. How is this guy getting away with it? He doesn't even hide the bodies, he's just full-on killing and going. And I understand that sure some of them have done terrible things, but you really are just hoping that the justice system will just wipe away the fact that these people have been murdered and just write it off because they did something terrible.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

He's a drifter, you know. He's never he's never been anywhere or been anybody, you know? He's just been this orphan going on the road.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Yeah, except sir, there's fucking security cameras, there's CCTV. You're not hiding from anything at that point.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

He was actually caught on security cameras in the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

That's what I'm saying. That so the bureaucracy of our government means that there's gonna be a delay in getting to you, but for 10 years.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

You're gonna tell me that Charlie within you is gotten you out of harm's way all this time. Heads up, man. There's some cops outside the door, you gotta sneak out the window. And that's what's getting them by this whole time.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Let's unpack that a little bit, okay? I'm not one that's very good with math, but correct me if I'm wrong here. Advent calendar, 25 days leading up to Christmas, 10 years. So I believe that puts us at minimum, one would assume, 250 kills. Give or take, maybe some days where he skipped here and there, right? And maybe some where he killed more, like in this case when he just went to town on the all the Nazis. Sure. But 250 plus or minus kills. But when it really comes down to it at the final moment, okay? The final moment, all of a sudden, Charlie has been warning Billy about this one guy throughout the whole movie. But when it really matters, suddenly he messes up and he gets got.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Should have got that one.

SPEAKER_02 38:55

Well, it's also because he never looked up and looked at Max. He never looked at him. So Charlie wasn't able to lock in and lock on, you know?

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Yeah, he got distracted by love.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

As it turns out, he also did it all for the Nookie.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

He did. Oh my god. This is another contender that could have made it.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

It could have made it, and it probably would have won because in four days flat, folks, it only took four days for the whole thing of like they match each other's freak to take effect.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

He gave it all for the Nookie, including his soul. His soul is now in the Nookie. It's there.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

It really takes soulmate to another level.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Fuck.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Incredible. I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Incredible stuff. I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Oh, wow, wow. Imagine Hallmark could never. And that's actually one of the charms about this movie. This really is a Hallmark Christmas love story.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Unrated, get out of here. This could definitely make it on the Hallmark channel.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

It for sure could. But something that I want to shout out here is an aspect that really brought me sheer delight. And it's three things that I clocked that were tributes to Black Christmas. Well, one is I'm claiming it as an assumed tribute to Black Christmas, probably complete fucking coincidence. I'll go in reverse order. The character named Claire, who owns the bakery, Claire from Black Christmas. Okay, there we go. The line when he is making the phone call, hey Agnes, it's me, Billy. And then earlier in the film, he is, of course, holding a crystal unicorn. I'd love to see it. And that's the moment where I said, Yeah, I can fuck with this movie.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Yes, same, actually. Absolutely same. The moment that I found out that his name was Billy, I said, Oh, and now that's not fair because then again, I mean, there's a lot of people named Billy, can't always be Black Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

The original movie, the character is named Billy.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Oh. Well, I still claim it. But yes, the the particular way that it said on the phone, too. I was really just having the time of my life. But without a doubt, when I saw that glass unicorn, I said, Oh, they really want to make it clear in case you didn't clock it a little bit earlier. That's be very upfront with the homage. And I took it and I ran with it. Now, one thing that I thought you were actually gonna highlight, not so much the Black Christmas of it all, but it wasn't necessarily a kill. But what could have been a kill might be an extreme take. Those kids at the hockey rink, they deserve to get their ass beat. And I want that to be on record. Fuck them kids. They really deserve that ass whooping. They probably deserved a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

I'm just saying, in the year of our pennywise 2025, when kids are getting massacred all over the place, these two kids in particular needed to get got. I really couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

For me, what this movie did really well and surprisingly really well for a holiday horror movie was how the cinematography helped to capture the mood of this movie because I think it uses the Christmas vibe and look to add emotional texture, not just for decoration. I think there's these soft wintry lighting contrasts with the violent moments that you get, and you know, you add the music choices, and it was actually kind of like oddly fun. You've got these moments where you're having this intense stuff happening, but you've got this really peaceful holiday music going on. The Christmas lights, the snow, the storefronts are framed to feel kind of lonely, melancholy, not warm and cozy at all. And the camera often lingers, reinforcing, I think, the movie's like slow burn, introspective drive. So just wanted to shout that out because when you actually watch what this movie is showing you, it's a little bit surprising.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, that's definitely true. I think I was expecting a little bit more grit, especially from what I could have assumed about the original being 80 slasher. You know, I just thought this was going to be very dark, can't be horror, gritty stuff, and that was kind of really the polar opposite of what we got. Definitely some pretty moments here and there for sure. And I talked about this a little bit earlier, but I think for me, what really stood out and made the difference in some ways was those title cards and how they broke up each kill. I kind of really liked that it was this stark red and bluish black and the way that it was filtered, the fonts. It felt very action thriller slasher type vibe. It was a good time. I couldn't possibly take it too seriously at all when I'm reminded of like, okay, let's do this thing. Almost like a video game, it felt like at times, right? So I thought that that was an element that I certainly didn't expect. And again, brought a little bit of levity to the film, in my opinion. But it's interesting because it seems like such a stark difference to what one of my favorite scenes was. And it's funny, we were actually talking about it a little bit earlier. And I appreciate you both for not wanting to spoil the original too much for me, but a scene that I actually really liked was the reveal that the parents weren't these great people. And not to say that that was a very stark emotion from up front, right? Like the dad already kind of seems like an asshole from The beginning, sure, but I certainly wasn't expecting that they fully did something terrible. Yes, there was maybe a little bit of a hint, but to the extreme that they killed the grandfather to get an inheritance type thing, I was not anticipating that at all. And one thing that I found a little bit difficult about the whole, again, mythos and point of this movie was that he has to kill leading up to Christmas, to have some sense of control, be that anti-hero type person, right? And be like the punisher, right? Or what I like to really say is Dexter, essentially. This is Dexter with the Santa hat. When you look back at all of that and you go to how this all started, it's like, okay, so then what about his parents? When that's revealed that the parents too also did something bad, it makes everything a lot more believable. Now, it's kind of rough because on the other hand, it's pretty also believable that if this kid witnessed his parents massacred right after seeing his grandfather die, that he also would be a serial killer. I mean, sorry, it's pretty traumatic.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

For sure. That whole open, I think, was pretty good. It is definitely different than the original, but I think just the whole way that the opening scene still pays homage to the original, but being very, very different and standing on its own is very, very good. Based on what I liked about the contrast between what you're seeing on film and the music and that pairing, it's literally when Pam's dad dies. That's the biggest moment that I absolutely thought was just such an oddly peaceful kill. It was just so weird because there was so much frantic shit happening in that. When you actually break down that scene, he's literally trying to save a kid from the snatcher. And listen, who knew we were gonna get Blackphone 3 hidden in this fucking movie? But that's what I'm saying. But holy shit, we got it. And he's trying to save this kid from the van. And this whole time you're getting heavenly peace playing in the background. It's oddly fitting for some reason as his frickin' brains get splattered against the windshield or the side window.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

I'm sorry. We gotta take the pipeline here. Black phone to its sequel, Blackphone Two, Black Phone Two to Freddy Krueger, Nightmare on Elm Street. Black Phone Two to Black Phone Three, Hidden Within Silent Night, Deadly Night. Silent Night, Deadly Night being Halloween Ends 2, it's Christmas time.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Oh shit. It is a the pipeline? It's pipeline It's a weird pipeline, but somehow it's working. It's just a very strange connection between all of these.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Welcome to my neurodivergent mind map.

unknown 46:35

Man.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

That was a great scene. I don't know that I ever thought of it as peaceful, mostly because I thought he was the one character in this movie who just deserved to get out scot-free. He's a good guy. Sweet guy. Great guy. But my absolute favorite scene came when he is looking on Billy with Pam. And they're looking with pride and just joy, as Billy is absolutely suffering through having kids sit on his in that Santa suit. Because again, another moment pulled from the original, but taken a bit further. And the struggle was real. And I really, really appreciated that. This internal look at okay, how does he try to resist the compulsion and fight through it? And when you recognize what Charlie is versus just this being a moment of okay, are we hearing his it's like the angel and the devil on his shoulder? Does he have a condition in which he is hearing these voices, etc., before you recognize it's a curse that's been passed down to him? I thought it was a really interesting take. And I absolutely think this was probably the one of the best acted moments in the movie.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

It was giving like Green Goblin Spider-Man situation in some way.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

I was giving Venom is what it was giving.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Or also Venom. That's true. Oh, super. But the thing about that scene, my question is a little bit right, is like, I suppose are they really in control of who they deem as naughty? Like, is Charlie really picking, or it's just that sensation takes hold? Because for a moment there, I was like, are one of these kids gonna have to be the one? You know, like technically the kids could be naughty at the time. Do we just allow a threshold, like an age where we forgive naughty behavior? And after 18, it's like, okay, if you're naughty, that's it. There's no calling back from it.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Okay, hear me out, hear me out. The pipeline continues. Give me the crossover of Silent Night, Deadly Night 2025 and the Orphan.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Perfection. Perfection. Wild. Fuck them kids. Or wait, pause. You know what another great one would be? This crossover with the lodge. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

We're lodging. We're talking about this scene and the venom or green goblin of it all. But I think it's interesting to even just talk about Charlie here for a second because outside of the scene that we get where he's killing Billy's parents, he is just as much of a prominent character than anyone else throughout the entire film, even though you don't see him. He's the voice inside of Billy's head. And it it's very interesting the dynamic between the two, but can we talk about how the fuck he was even able to transfer into Billy's body like that? The angle I'm not mad at. It's just so wild that they just threw that at us, and we didn't have any logical explanation as to how this was even happening.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Okay. Welcome, Sean, to Halloween and again.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

I know. Oh god, not the Michael Orgasm.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

I would rather see Michael Myers have an orgasm than see this again, I think. This was Chucky putting his soul into another vessel, plus Michael Myers transferring his curse, his affliction, the curse of Michael Myers, to Corey Cunningham. That's what this is. And I didn't like how it looked visually at all. In fact, I thought it was one of the goofiest parts of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

It was super goofy. Super, super goofy.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Very 80s. But also, no thanks.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yeah, it's a weird thing. But can we also just talk about why we went from killer to wanting to kill only naughty people?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yeah, so that's what I was talking about. I think it kind of explains the whole reasoning behind this whole curse, if we want to call it that. Because at the beginning, when you don't know that the parents did anything bad, it reads as that, right? Where, okay, we're killing whomever, but then suddenly now we have the moral compass. And it turns out, no, we've always had a moral compass. And that is the curse, is that you have to kill naughty people. My question is, is like, where does that line get drawn, age-wise, action-wise? Like if I lied a few times, am I suddenly getting killed? Or in all of these cases, they were very extreme acts that were obviously naughty. It seems like it's been going for a bit based on that advent calendar that's seen better days, that's for sure. We can start there. And secondly, I think it's this whole idea of control, right? Where it really does read like a vigilante, anti-hero, like dexter type situation, because it's this idea that who would you rather get killed? A random person, i.e., Pam's dad, who, Chris, you're absolutely right. Like the last person that you would want to really die, honestly, seems very sweet, normal guy. But I think that's the whole point, right? Is that they're gonna be the ones that are the actual victim of this curse, or you can choose to control who dies and actually kill people that who they deem to be deserving of it. But that's all like a very serious tone. I'm not sure if that's something that's in the original or if that's the whole point of the original. It's like a very serious theme. However, I mean I keep referencing Dexter because that's kind of his whole shtick, right? It's like it that's this is something that is repeated and kind of done thematically in a couple other movies and properties.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Yeah, it is interesting for sure. And then we actually get to Billy himself, and I think it's very interesting in this one because you actually feel a little bit more sympathy for Billy in this one. I would say even more than the original, because in the original, I don't know, it there's you just don't have you're not really siding with a lot of the kills. You know what I mean? In this one, you're really you're really siding with the decision of what's going into the decision of these kills, or whatever, however you want to frame that. But then there's moments where you start feeling bad about that part of feeling any kind of alignment with him.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

You know, somehow I feel worse for Billy Chapman, who was just a happy-go-lucky kid, real sweetheart, but traumatized and also deeply misunderstood, and raised in an environment in which he was denied the assistance that he desperately needed to be able to cope well. And he was moving on with his life the best that he could and still afflicted. Whereas this guy, I actually didn't care for him very much at all. Corey Cunningham.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Maybe it's just Corey Cunningham that you don't like.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Maybe the problem is that it's the same fucking character, Sean. It's the same guy. You know, he's being typecasted, you know? Down to the romantic interest and all.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Stop, man. So let's talk about that actually. Let's talk about that next because here's the other bit to it all. My girl really just did the stereotypical thing. Falls for a complete stranger in four days flat or less. The moment that she said, I love true crime, I literally wrote, Oh, she's a killer, Mrs. Claus. They match each other's freak. When a guy, first of all, takes your car just randomly. You just met him for well over an hour. Let's think about those choices, girly. Let's think about that.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Also is covered in blood in your car.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

What's all the blood in the back of the ice? No questions about that. Sure. Okay, yeah. Shows up with a black eye. Don't even think to put glasses on him when he's Santa. Red flags. With a bunch of kids. So many red flags, girly pop. And now to the next point, which is I also can recognize that clearly, and unfortunately, she doesn't have the best track record with absolute scum of the earth ex-boyfriend there. That the ending was a lot of things, sure. But when he also got got, I was really happy about it. That's for sure. I was like, hell yeah, queen, knock him down. Absolutely. I think that it's just a little bit of things that I have to kind of overlook to champion women in this case, as best as I can. But the red flags were really large.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

I mean, they were prominent for sure. The red flags, they were flying high for sure. But I will say, the worst part of this movie is always going to be the fact that they shied away from some 49 fucking of the 51 kills. Okay? You're gonna tell me that we have 51 kills in this movie, and we committed to almost none of them. That's truly a sin in horror. And I just wanted more blood and more guts, and that's just a fact. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

I want more, more than I probably should.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

That reference, by the way, I fully endorse and was fantastic. You also haven't referenced them in a long time, okay? So give yourself some flowers there.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

One more before the end of the year. Don't give me too much credit because I definitely watched Cannibal Holocaust the other day and then watched Grease Rise of the Pink Ladies right after the palate cleanser.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

You know what? Self-care is important at the end of the year. We're gonna we're gonna allow it. We're gonna allow it. But funny that you bring up the kills, because I agree with you, but for me, I think the worst part has to be that they acted like a ball pit that went up to your ankles was as deep as a six-foot pool. Okay? As if you couldn't see grown-ass adults underneath that ball pit, especially when apparently one of them was on top of the other. Okay? Get out of here with that. It was literally to our boys' ankles, and you suddenly can't see them anywhere. So dark. Miss me with that. The kids were popping out of the ball pits, and you can't find these adults that are on top of each other. No. Unacceptable.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Yeah, you know, you all raise really good points. I think I want to highlight the worst part for sure is the soul transfer. That's a hundred percent the worst part. Not on in theory, but in just the visual mechanics of this. Don't love that. Also, second worst part, the fact that the famed Deer Antler kill was shown so briefly in a flashback instead of being a staple kill in the present day. That was a huge missed opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

I also want to be clear that if I do ever re-watch this movie, it's only going to be after re-watching the entirety of the Silent Knight, Deadly Knight franchise. I've only seen the first two. I haven't seen the rest of them. But only then will I circle back to here because between the few moments that we've talked about, we're not gonna spoil the rest of it for being so she can get a fresh take. But there's enough in here that I know is pulled directly from the franchise.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

It's interesting for sure. I haven't explored anything past 84 and this one, so maybe that will be something that I also have to revisit throughout the holiday season, maybe before this season is over. I'm not sure. We'll see. I would probably re-watch this one again. I'm not sure when. It may, it's definitely not gonna be anytime this year. It may be next year for sure if it happens, but I think it's worth at least one rewatch.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Meanwhile, I'll for sure be re-watching this. Now, of course, not by the end of the year. It's the year's about to end. But I think I'm gonna make this definitely a part of like the holiday season tradition type deal. Now, keeping in mind though, since I haven't seen the original, I do want to make it a point to see that before the year ends. And maybe I'll switch them, right? Maybe I'll change my mind. But so far I had a really good time with this. The only difference is I don't want to see it alone in a very dark theater with terrible seats. The theater I went to is not necessarily the greatest, but I want to be able to change the ambiance to make the the viewing a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 58:33

Well, I can't wait to hear what you think of the original film as it compares to this one. But for now, there you have it, folks. Silent Knight, Deadly Night from 2025, has earned a universal slash. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here, but the conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

If you want to find out if you've been naughty or nice, consider supporting the show by visiting patreon.com/slash hackerslash. This is where you can enjoy even more of the show, including bonus content with early access, extended episodes, movie nominations, and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

We'll see you next time, folks. And remember, when you find that special someone, don't let them go.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

That's cheesy as fuck.