408: The Conjuring: Last Rites (2025)

SPEAKER_02 0:04

We needed the Puneverse Monsters Assembled before the Conjuring. We needed the Conjuring Demons Congregate. Greetings and salutations, and welcome to Hacker Slash. If you're joining us again, welcome back. Everything you see in here is either cursed, haunted, or been used in some sort of ritualistic practice. If this is your first time listening, welcome to the party. We are a horror movie review podcast dedicated to telling you whether a movie is a hack, total joke, a waste of time, or a slash. Totally killer, unintended. We believe horror is for everyone, and adds such we're rating these movies with a perspective we've gained from our varying walks of life and those flavors of fears we fancy most. My name is Chris. I'm your friendly neighborhood slasher enthusiast. This week I'm joined by the classic horror connoisseur Sean.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Don't slap me with cheese.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

And the paranormal paramour, Binx. We are gonna call. This week we're back in theaters to explore the alleged final chapter of films exploring the lives of famed paranormal investigators.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

And be sure to stick around for our B-side at the end of this episode, where we dive into the actual Smurl family haunting that this movie was based on.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Before we get down to business, though, we can get some follow-up.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Well, let's get ready for this season, folks, because listen, we've got a lot going on. We've got the school theme this year, as you may have heard if you listened to our last episode. So we're getting ready. The spooky season is officially here. We're opening the doors for our fifth annual new blood drive. That's 60 full days of horror community and straight hacker/slash spirit. And man, it's just pretty exciting, I gotta say.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I am super pumped for this. This is always my favorite time of year. And may I just add that we're only a couple days in to our official spooky season here on the podcast, and our Discord is already popping with a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of passion, a lot of commitment to the bit. We love to see it.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

It has been popping. It definitely has.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Commitment to the bit is so important. I think that the school theme is very much a thing, and I'm very on brand. I love school supply shopping, so this is great. It is the best time.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

It is the best time. Getting ready for the thing that you eventually don't want to do. But in this case, it's the thing that we do want to do because we gotta love the spooky season. And we got a lot on the syllabus this year. We're doubling up episodes all October long. Fridays are gonna bring you regular movie reviews, the ones that you're used to. Tuesdays are gonna serve up horror electives, everything from spooky season essentials, franchise exploration, and horror hot takes.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Which is honestly incredible. We've already actually kicked off some of those bonus episodes on Tuesdays because one other thing that we're doing that we haven't been super public about is we're actually making the slasher digest FM bonus episode that's typically patron exclusive. We're opening that up to everyone for September and October. So this is a really a great opportunity for you to step behind the scenes and see what's going on in the inner workings behind the show, and then also taking a deeper look at what's coming up and some great sneak peeks.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, we've got those free sides back in sessions. It's gonna be cool. We're gonna have, you know, normally at the end of the episode where you get to hear us talk about some like wild and zany stuff that's usually for some of our supporters of the show. We're opening that up for everyone to kind of jump into, which is really cool to just take the episodes further. Our Discord, we've already been talking about, is hosting a whole bunch of cool stuff. It's popping in there. We're having great conversations, but they're hosting full extracurricular lineups, franchise watch parties, horror game nights, spirit week. There's gonna be a yearbook of horror superlatives. It's it's it's crazy. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

You know, some might say business is booming.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Oh my gosh, absolutely. So listen, if you've been waiting to enroll, this is the time for sure. During the new blood drive, new patrons get half off their annual membership. Yes, that's half off, folks. Not 10%, not 15%, fucking 50% off of a full membership access to milestone unlocks, uh shot at exclusive school spirit swag, including our elusive and exclusive eighth anniversary poster, which is gonna be great.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

You know what I love? Someone told me when they heard about this deal, was like, damn, that's that's cheaper than feeding two people at Chipotle. So if you're into Chipotle, you can afford this. It's pretty great.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Oh man, you gotta love the affordability talks, you know, really make it make sense, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

It's awesome. So yeah, get ready, grab your student IDs, grab your backpacks, let's go, let's attend class, let's get ready for the spooky season with Hackerslash.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Hell yeah, folks. This is the time of year we're all coming to life. And you're gonna get a taste of that right here with today's episode. Now, in 1973, the Smurl family moved into an old duplex in West Pittston, Pennsylvania. And what started with small annoyances like tools vanishing, lights flickering, foul odors wafting through the halls soon escalated into violent disturbances that left both people and pets injured. Now, more than a decade later, Ed and Lorraine Warren began investigating what they called one of the most confounding cases of their career. And the couple reported the presence of multiple human spirits and one inhuman entity and actually struggled to even reach a clean resolution. Slated to be the last entry featuring the Warrens, this film marks the closing chapter of a series that began in 2013 and grew into one of the most successful horror franchises in modern cinema. This week we're talking about the Conjuring Last Rights. What were you both expecting going into this?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Well, as a big fan, as we all know very, very, very well, I was really hoping and expecting for some nostalgia. I wanted some good jump scares. I really wanted this to be better than Conjuring Three, because as we most recently revisited, revisited it, I realized I didn't really like that movie as much as I thought I did or should, I guess is maybe the better way to put it. So I just wanted it to be better than the last. I'm craving the feeling that I got when I watched The Conjuring for the first time. And that's a very high bar, but it's a conclusion of a franchise that has meant so much to me. You know, both Vera Farmiga and Patrick Wilson are huge. Them being the Warrens is a huge part of horror. And just to see them concluding their roles as the Warrens is very like, it's heartwarming, it's bittersweet. So I just wanted to feel like all of the emotions going into this. And if at the very least, maybe not the best plot in the world, I just wanted some good old like Easter eggs. I know, maybe cliche, maybe it's too much to ask, and something that you don't really typically want in a final installment. But I just wanted to chase that love all over again. I can't believe it's over, folks.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah. It sounds like you really just wanted the victory lap of the Warrens. You really wanted them to just land the plane. Nothing fancy, nothing crazy. Just put this baby down on the ground and let the one guy in the back of the plane start clapping.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Absolutely, Chris. You nailed it. I really did. Because listen, not not anything against the director as well, but Michael Chavez, so far, what he's done, not my favorite, you know. So that's the other part to it, too. I just wanted us to get there safely. Let's land this plane, like you said, and let's just conclude of what is a great feat for both of these actors, you know, playing these parts for well over a decade now.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, I'm not as passionately into this franchise as you are, and maybe even less so than you are, Sean. But I thought that this might be more of, let's say, a return to form. I enjoyed the previous conjuring movie. However, hearing everybody's take on it, knowing the reviews and the perception of the movie that's out there, it was feeling like one of those moments where, okay, if this is gonna be it, we gotta go all out. And we need to tie back to the original film and at least have some of that atmosphere, some of that ambiance, and maybe even a few returning characters. So, like you being, I think you were hoping for the victory lap, but I expected the victory lap, and I don't know that I expected it to be fully handled with a lot of grace, but I expected it to be better than not.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I think it's a fair expectation because it's gonna be, I mean, no matter how you look at it, this is the end of an era, right? Like the fran the franchise or the universe may find a way to go on with different stories that don't involve Ed and Lorraine themselves, but this one feels like a big one, right? It's the final installment in the Conjuring series with Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmega as Ed and Lorraine Warren. So it has to be big, right? It just has to be big. And we're gonna want to see the callbacks, the Easter eggs. I just hope it doesn't leave us feeling like we needed more. As many franchises or even popular TV series do when they try to close out the story, because let's face it, it is hard, right? When you have a story that is so beloved and widely followed, it can be really hard to find the right way to close it out. And I think that's where it can get stuck. I'm just hoping that it finds a way to not do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Yeah, I mean, that's completely fair. Again, this is one of those things where maybe this guy's trying to land this plane and all of a sudden it's broken in half on the tar back. I mean, nobody wants that. But for a movie where you walk in so much wanting to make sure no one is left wanting more, may I just say and this is gonna be, I think, a little deceptive because I have a lot of things to say about this movie. But the biggest feeling I had was I could have done with less. I could have done with less. This movie felt long, it felt really long, it was fun, and while I found myself still invested in the characters and invested in the story, I found myself feeling like this imbalance of where we were spending the time in the movie. And while there were some scares that really got other people in the theater, I found myself just feeling like, all right, okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Oh, it's still going.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

It had to Yeah, it had to find a way to I I see exactly what you're saying. And I agree to an extent, right? I think it felt like it was dragging on when we got towards the end, like the very end. That's where it really hit me the most there. That feeling of just kind of being a little bit too long, maybe needing to trim it down a little bit. But I feel like I understand also kind of where you're going because they they were essentially trying to tie in some heavy story, right? Like you are trying to tie in a lot of things going on. You've got this family that we're focusing on, the Smurfs, the Smurfs, the Smurl family, right? It's a hard name to say, folks. The Smurl family, right? And then you've got the Warren family, and there's just a couple of things going on, and you got to do that in like a feature-length runtime. So it gets a little bit tough, and I totally get that, but there is something to be said about how the conjuring movies leverage the real cases of Ed and Lorraine Warren, which I feel like the thing about the conjuring movies is that they play off of these actual cases, right? Knowing that even just an ounce of a story like this is true can leave you feeling a little bit of that fear that you may not normally get from like other horror movies, right? So I feel like it makes it feel a little bit more scary to the average viewer. I think it would in any case, the same, almost the same way as like a found footage movie could give you that fear because there's this there there starts to be this question in your mind of like, is this reality? Did this happen? Did this not? Kind of thing. Obviously, two separate things, but I think definitely there is that aspect that comes with these conjuring movies.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

You know, I just want to jump in for a brief moment to tell you that the funnest game I played watching this movie, and I actually clocked this as we were watching the previous one. I thought, how much more fun would it be to just watch these movies and then try to think about the ordinary mundane fucking things that happened that would like that this movie is sensationalizing. We'll talk about it more in the spoiler zone because there's an end uh scene in this movie where I was like, wow, this feels like my grandpa who used to like really just fli dress up all of his stories, you know what I mean? Oh yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

We're gonna get into that stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

I oh, we certainly will. We certainly will. But I'm I'm aligned with you both because I also felt the same about the runtime. The pacing at one point was, you know, a little bit draggy for sure. Placement of that though differs personally, Sean, because I think you've said that you felt it a little bit more towards the end. I felt it kind of like at the top, you know, a little bit at the beginning, you know. But the reality is that as I was, you know, watching it or, you know, and bought in, I didn't feel like I was falling asleep. I wasn't dreading for this to be over. I was thoroughly entertained. It's just something that I noticed. You can't help but to, right? And in reality, if I really took a moment to kind of reflect on it, you kind of needed that pacing to exist. This movie, to an extent, needed to go needed to be a little bit lengthy. It's the conclusion, folks. I keep saying it, but you know, you want to wrap up all of the things as much as you can. Like you said, Sean, there are so many films and like plots that we need to kind of wrap up. We've got the lore that is Lorraine Warren specifically, and the relationship between Ed and Lorraine, especially where we left off in the previous film. Then we've got Judy. This is like the first time that we were really seeing their daughter at the forefront in this particular film. We you've seen her obviously cameoed in other films, but nothing really major since Annabelle comes home. And then we've also got the actual case. So there's like three components here that you've got to mix up together. And then you've got the little like cameos and Easter eggs that you were hoping for. So there's a lot jam-packed in a what is it, like two-hour runtime, maybe a little bit over than that. So I definitely felt it a little bit, but I was honestly like really intrigued and entertained. I actually got very scared, which is great. That is the one thing I was really, really hoping for. And this does not match to conjuring one or two, but that's a very high bar. You know, Michael Chavez isn't James Wand, so it's a little tough to even compare, but it got decently close. So I'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Oh, for sure. I definitely think that this film did a good job with like the scenery, the overall atmosphere. Really makes you feel this movie in a way that like feels familiar to what we were getting in those early conjuring films. Does it hold up like the exact same way? Maybe not, but you can definitely feel that presence there. I also really liked that the way they captured like the wet, dirty look of those old coal mining suburbs of Pittsburgh. It was really, really well done the way that they captured the scenery and the atmosphere in this movie. But even just going back to like touching on, and I know we gotta wait till the spoiler section, but even going back and touching on what you were talking about, Chris, and I did do a bit of research before going into this movie. So you're talking about how fun it would it be to like just think of all the normal, mundane things that actually happened versus what they, you know, kind of told us what happened in this movie to make it very entertaining in Hollywood. I did a lot of research before going into this movie because coming out of the episode we recently did with a third installment, the devil made me do it, and knowing really nothing about that case, I was wanting to go into this one, I think, with more prior knowledge surrounding the case. And I found myself a tad disappointed by being able to call out the things that differed from the actual case, which was an interesting feeling to say the least. So yeah, it's a tough one. I mean, maybe to some people it wouldn't matter. And in this case, I feel like ignorance is bliss when you're watching these movies.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like this is actually the case that I maybe know the least about, but I did watch a documentary on Ed Lorraine Warren that had come out, I think it's relatively recent, actually. It's on HPO Max. And they mention the Smurl case. I did a little bit of a refresher when I left the theater just to make sure that I remembered all the details right because some of it you're watching and you're like, wait a minute. So if I had to say that might be a little bit of a disappointment for me, not even the disparity of the case itself, but the reality that we don't spend as much time with the S'Marl family as you would expect for this being a film that is about a real life case, as all of the conjurings are, right? But you know, this is very different from Conjuring Three, where it was about a trial per se. This is like we're going back to the family setting, the family unit within a home. And there's not as much of it as you may expect, folks. So that part I was a little surprised by and also disappointed because when we do get it, there is definitely some key differences that are very apparent if you even just did a quick Google search.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

For sure. And that actually was something that stood out to me. I wanted to do kind of like a cursory glance at the circumstances surrounding it and wanting to know okay, how does their situation resolve or not resolve in real life versus what we're gonna end up seeing? Especially because when you have what the conjuring films do, which is they add in extra characters in the background that you know are probably gonna be highly sensationalized to be able to add the drama, right? In the previous film, we had that with a vision of two young girls who went missing in another town. So I was curious to see how much of this would really take place in some kind of root of what this family claims happened to them versus what Hollywood is gonna do to the picture. Now, I didn't still want too many details because I wanted to be able to just sit back and kind of enjoy it. But to your point being shoned, yeah, there is a few things that immediately stand out, but there are also more things that sound out. I'm like, that's a really classy way to handle this claim. And I am glad that they did it the way that they did, instead of going in a more rob zombie direction. Not that you would ever get that in a conjuring film, to be clear. But there are aspects of the story that have the pre the potential to be extremely gross and they obviously took the high road, continue to do what these films tend to do. And again, that's all based on I think even a lot of contracts that were signed by the Warren family before this production ever even started. However, much like you both, I found myself disappointed that in a movie that is obviously the finale for the Warrens, that I wanted less of the Warrens and more of other characters. Because I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by how much more invested I was in the Smurl family. There was so much going on there, and I think the strength of the performances from the older daughters in particular really made me think, Fuck, man, I want to see more of what's going on with them as opposed to like periodic check-ins.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yes. I feel you on that because I think it's that sentiment matched the conjuring, how we felt about the family and the conjuring, the first one, you know. Like I was so curious about them, but we got so little of them. And then on the flip side, we got so much of the warrants, which, you know, in fairness, because it is the conclusion, you do ex A, expect that, but B, you need to wrap up a huge lore surrounding them that had been built up across so many films. So I suppose you could only do so much in making sure that you're putting a good bow on it and really wrapping up these iconic characters, just like was an interesting balance between the two.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah. Manager pay though. You know that you can get that sometimes that feeling where you're in a meeting, you're like, bro, this could have been an email. I feel like some of what we get with the Warrens could have been an email, and I feel like we could have had an incredible, like limited series of these two playing the Warrens and then give us the longer breathing episodes of these paranormal things that are happening that they're investigating. I almost would prefer that platform for their story, as opposed to feeling like you have to juggle so many things in the runtime of one film. If not, fuck it. Harry Potter's done it, Hunger Games has done it, Breaking Dawn has done it with Twilight. Fucking give us two parts in the movie. I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah, I was gonna say we could have a part one, part two, but I do like the idea of having this like limited series event. I mean, technically, it wouldn't even be next necessarily limited, right? Like, technically, if we were to do something like that, it could be like a Hundred of episodes. Like there could be a ton of cases that we're just spending an hour long on or whatever for each one. It could be very different, very, very cool. But yeah, I think the problem that we're talking about here is that we decided to play into another angle in the storyline with the Warrens themselves instead of focusing just on this family. And that's what took away from focusing on this family, which we're going to talk about in a bit. But I think one of the things that surprised me the most about this movie was literally how effective I think this movie was in building tension. May not have been like a super frightening film, but the tension and some of that dread definitely was effective. The way they built it, I think despite it being something familiar and things that we have seen in past installments in the Conjuring universe, uh, it did a really good job with that. And that's what this movie does, I think, just really, really well. If we're looking at it, if we're really breaking it down, it uses all of the tricks that have worked in the past and leans heavily into this muscle, right? And it works. It just works. So whether or not you believe in like the demonic stuff or ghosts or haunted houses, you can still appreciate the eerie thrills of a good ghost story.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

For sure. I think that again, I mentioned it earlier. This is a film that goes back to its roots to an extent because there are some antagonists, I guess we should call them, that are terrifying personally. If I saw them at the corner of my room, I would be jumping out the window, and that's a wrap. It would be a one big hell to the naw. So that's what I was hoping for, folks. I mean, we didn't get that personally. I we didn't really get that in the third one installment. Conjuring two, we have my queen, you know, Valix, so it's a little different. But I'm chasing that feeling. Everyone is when it comes to the conjuring. The conjuring is known for its fear. Like there's some moments and scenes that are that are ingrained in your head, and that's what I was looking for. And dare I say it, I think this movie's gonna provide maybe one or two for you that you're gonna remember at the very least one particular antagonist that I absolutely was not fucking with. So some good jump scares that had me jumping off my seat, but I'm more susceptible to it compared to you two. I know that.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yeah. I went to go see this with Allie, and I was pleasantly surprised. Like she loves the conjuring movie, she's a huge fan of this franchise. And she was jumping, she was jumping a bit, and like, damn, to be so well moved by a film. You know, like I love that. Like, cause what an experience that is. Now, the thing about this movie and where it scares you, I can appreciate its deviation from some classic recipes, but even then, it is still like if you watch a lot of horror, if you watch a lot of paranormal movies in particular, you're gonna see this, right? You're gonna be able to anticipate when these things are coming. However, there are slight adjustments to timing and redirections and a lot of misdirection that can scare, I think, a horror novice and makes it for honestly a great crowd watch at the theater. I wish there was more that this movie did differently to separate itself from that kind of trope. However, what I can at least appreciate is the quality of its scares, and then on the flip side of that, being able to tackle a a familiar territory for the Warrens, while also feel like they're adding a different component to the story and what they typically do. That's we're gonna dive more into that in the spoiler zone, but I think it's refreshing in a way.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

It is. I think the conjuring films are always a little bit interesting because they do rely on the actual cases of Ed and Lorraine Warren, obviously over-dramatizing the story to make for that entertaining horror flick. But I suppose that's where these films really get their originality from. It's the way that they kind of depict these events and make them into their own, building and adding to the story that it finds itself kind of really making its own story. And so you gotta give it credit where credit's due, because, you know, let's face it, you gotta you gotta put some flair and some pizzazz in there.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Absolutely. I think that ultimately, like we were talking about, if this was a TV show, then maybe this would have way less lore to it. But we're talking about feature films and several of them at that, and going off of hundreds of cases at best, calling out to some of the more popular ones in paranormal history. So, like Amityville, of course, is the is the biggest one that Ed and Lorraine were involved in, and they were only there for a little bit, but yet it's still a part of the lore. These are small pieces and bits that make up who Ed and Lorraine Warren are a name in horror, right? And definitely in paranormal investigations. So I think that it's so interesting what they've built out in this franchise. And definitely, you know, there could be some debate on, you know, whether that's a good thing or not, because the actual Ed and Lorraine Warren, their story, sure, is very controversial. There's we've talked about it in several B-sides and episodes, most definitely. But putting that aside, I think just when you look at the movies, they've created such an interesting franchise over the course of several films. And it's just weird to feel like it's coming to an end. And although some things were very extreme, you know, some movies kind of wish we they weren't canon, right? I think that they wrapped up everything really well. And that goes straight into, for me, I think like the ending, right? The ending of this film, I think, is a really nice, wholesome in the weirdest way, you know, like wholesome love letter. I think, not only to the Warrens as as it pertains to this franchise and the films, but I think to the actors that play the Warrens, which is what made me feel weirdly, like really emotional. I was getting like teary-eyed, not because the movie's gonna make you cry. Personally, it didn't. I don't feel that deeply about these characters. I feel deeply about, you know, Vera and Patrick. I think that I've followed them being the Warrens for so long that it's just like, oh, you know, their friendships, you've seen their them in interviews, they care so deeply about each other when they wrapped up shooting, you know, they shared on their Instagrams. It's these little moments that I think make like films and us doing what we do, right? Talking about these films so like interesting. Because this is like a close chapter in like real people's lives filming this movie, you know?

SPEAKER_00 28:59

For sure. Yeah, I I feel like the ending for me, much like the rest of the film, but even more so in the ending, is a departure from the actual case and the events that took place. I think it would be I think it would have been interesting actually if they stuck closer to the facts in this specific part of the movie, but it was also kind of funny for a couple of other reasons once we got to the very end. For reasons that we'll have to share in the second half when we can dive into spoilers, so stick around to find out about that. But yeah, it's kind of a mixed bag with the ending. I think it dragged on a little bit long. I think we could have taken out probably five to ten minutes of that ending for sure. I don't know, maybe ten minutes is egregious, but a few minutes at least.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Yeah, there's plenty of room in here, and honestly, I think about earlier in the movie, there are some party scenes that we get where I'm like, Could have done without this. You know what I mean? In retrospect, there's fat on this film to be trimmed. That is an opportunity. But it manages to arrive at its destination. Did it get there the fanciest way? Nah. Did it get there in a way that honestly had me nervous in the theater to be like, if they're really gonna end this movie this way, what are they doing? Thankfully they didn't. But this ending felt again, if we go back to that plane, there's a little bit of turbulence in here for me in terms of like the experience. But looking around me in the theater, people had fun with this ending. And I think that's really all that it comes down to and what you should really care about in a film. I think while it may be long for me, it may be long for Sean, maybe long for Binks, maybe it's gonna be just right for you. Now, I am excited to see how all of this translates into our ratings, but before we score this film, Sean, how would you describe the gore score?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Well, there is a lot of blood in this movie, and some of you gore lovers out there might call it mouthwatering. There isn't a ton of overall gore in this one, much like the rest of the franchise, really, honestly. I mean, this might actually be the most gore in a conjuring movie. I'm not really sure. But what's interesting is the fact that most of the blood in this movie happens in the kitchen for some reason, or areas around the kitchen for some reason. But regardless, this one might be a bloody good time. It's still only earning itself really a low gore score.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

And what about the animal report? Well, the animal report, on the other hand, does not have a great score. Definitely has a moment of animal abuse, most certainly. But luckily, no fatalities. So if there's a bright side to all of this, at least there's that.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Yeah, you might get super concerned, but it might be alright. It'll be uh be okay. It'll be okay. Well, let's go ahead and get into our ratings then. The conjuring last writes from 2025. Was it a hack or a slash?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Well, I'll just say this film, I feel like it wasted no time pulling us right into the chaos, right? I feel like either entities are tormenting the family very early on in this film. I think it sets the stage for this relentless haunting that builds a ton of tension fairly effectively in the movie. What I did love about this installment particularly was that we were brought right back to those haunted house vibes that made the original conjuring film, I feel like, so effective. And this film, it may not be in this haunted house vibe the entire time, but it is full of spooky atmosphere. And this movie truly thrives on its ability to milk every ounce of dread from every creaky floorboard or dimly lit room. I feel like it just really does a good job with that atmosphere. But there it where this film really lands is in how it ties everything together, right? It gives Ed and Lorraine's story a real sense of closure, which is what we needed, right? There's sometimes it's heartfelt, sometimes there's these chilling moments, but we do get this sense of closure, which I truly appreciate. And although it is a far cry from the actual events of the documented case, it does still feel like you said it earlier, Chris, a return to form. It's that feeling of familiarity in its scares, it's satisfying in its execution, and it's solid enough to leave a really lasting impression on the franchise. And for me, it's a haunted house homecoming that put the right in last rights because this one is a slash.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Listen, I know that I have spoken this franchise's praises, not just the conjuring film specifically, but in general, you know, I am a big fan of this whole MCU of it all, right? Like the conjuring universe is very much like the Marvel cinematic universe at times. It's a lot of films. But like Sean said, I think that there's something to be said about landing this plane, like we keep saying, right? Wrapping up what is a very large and what could be an extremely convoluted, you know, story and lore. There's so much that goes into this, both balancing real life cases, but also building up some curiosity about these characters to fill in the gaps in between. Because the reality is that these cases were either very, very short, maybe didn't have a lot of things actually going on. You know, if we actually saw a film of these cases play by play, it would be maybe a 30-minute episode at best. So of course, we need to make this into a feature film. And that being said, I think when we transitioned from James Juan to Michael Chavez, those are huge shoes to fill. You know, James Juan is a huge name in horror. So I feel bad at times giving Michael Chavez a little bit too much heat because I wasn't too big of a fan of La Llorona or, you know, even my most recent rewatch of Conjuring 3 just didn't hit. But this time around, I wanted to have those expectations high. And maybe it fully didn't match, but it was there. I had a great time. I think that there was a great conclusion to these characters. And sure, maybe there's some things that I personally would have liked to have shifted a little bit more in terms of focusing more on the family, less on the Warrens. I think that there was respect off the table for these characters and the actors that play them that have spent years playing these characters. There's a lot of fun for those that love to watch these movies, little things that you're gonna bite and chew on that you'll remember, little callbacks that are real clever, and maybe some that are a little ridiculous, sure, but I had a good laugh with it. And ultimately, the other component that I can't wait for us to dive into as well is that there's some incredible shots here, the lighting here, the set design, the costume design, like that those departments came to fucking bat. And I think that if we really were to wrap this whole thing up, this is a great conclusion to something that everyone reveres. So for me personally, it hit the mark, and I think it's a well-deserved slash.

SPEAKER_02 36:24

Absolutely incredible. Now, Sean, I want to circle back to something you said because the first words out of your mouth was this movie wasted no time pulling us into the chaos. And I would agree. For sure, it jumps right into it. And I really enjoyed the way that we start. But what this movie also did was waste significant time towards the ending and arriving at its destination. Now, that being said, and again, I want to be very specific here because that felt like a very long experience, there is still a lot to love in this movie. And it actually I think has scares that are worth the price of admission. If you're gonna go to this, A, as someone who loves the conjuring franchise and someone who loves jump scares and really buys into this. Or B, if you're going to this with someone who's really susceptible to jump scares, this feels like okay, I want to go see a scary movie in a theater, and this is what people really want to feel when in there. Not for the Die Hard horror fans. But you'll enjoy it nevertheless. I do also want to draw a comparison, though, to this film serving as a finale to a chapter of a franchise versus another film that you'll you'll hear the episode for next week, and that was Hellhouse LLC Lineage. These movies have two different budgets, two different leagues, they're two worlds apart in terms of studio pictures versus independent horror. And it's incredible that the Hellhouse franchise fought above its ways class and then landed in an actual theater. That is incredible and a feat to behold. But the reality is that despite their differences in quality, both of these films arrive in our theaters within weeks of each other. And I want you to really understand the disparity here between the two stories because where this movie shines is its uh well-executed conclusion. This is a story that circles back in its own lore in a way that reminds you where you've been without beating you over the head with it. And dare I say, it actually inspires you to want to watch the other films, which is impressive because I feel like every time I see a James Wan associated film, it is the exact opposite. It's too much lore dub, too many flashbacks, too many memories. But this Walk to Fine Line, and a film that can do that and make me want to watch the rest of the franchise is worthy of a slash. So, with that, the Conjuring Last Rights has earned a universal slash. Now we still have so much more to say about this film. This is your chance to pause and go check it out, then join us in the spoiler zone so we can really dive into the specifics. We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

This episode of Hacker Slash is brought to you by Warren's Moving in Storage. The only company that will come pick up and dispose of any of your demonic junk that you might have lurking in your creepy ass basement or attic. That's right, looking to haul away some haunted heirlooms, cursed curios, or that doll in your basement that won't stop staring at you? Call Warren's Moving in Storage today. Why risk a late night game of hide and clap with spirits in your attic? Call Ed and Lorraine's professional team of paranormal movers. Whether it's a music box that winds itself, a mirror that reflects a demon instead of you, or a painting of the crookedest man you've ever seen, Warren's Moving in Storage will whisk it away to their secure Vatican-approved storage vault. Forget pods, we've got God's storage solutions. Our movers don't just carry boxes here, they carry holy water, just in case things get dicey. And unlike your sketchy uncle, we promise not to open Annabelle's case. So the next time your house feels less dream home and more Amityville, let Warren's Moving and Storage put the possess back in possession of your junk. Warren's Moving and Storage, because one man's trash is another demon's treasure. Yeah, if you're a longtime conjuring fan like myself, like some of us here, then you pretty much know not to really expect a high kill count from these movies. I mean, we're in fact, I mean, listen, we only get one full-on kill in this movie. Two, if you count the fact that little stillborn Judy was dead for a whole ass minute before coming back to life, so maybe there's a stretch for two. Three, if you want to be really gracious, like really gracious and count Tony's alternate world where he is dead after getting shot in the face with a double barrel shotgun. Because he did say in some alternate world, he is dead.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I do think it's generous for sure. I think we can just acknowledge for a moment it's kind of a big deal for Warner Brothers to really be behind a movie that starts with a dead baby. Like that's crazy. That's and you see the dead baby for a while. Honestly, it was a very sweet moment. It was a super touching moment. And the second they put that baby back in her arms and she started praying, I was like, okay, this is actually pretty tender. Good for you, Lorraine. Good for you. However, it was just one of those where I'm like, damn, comparing this to the witch where a baby gets eaten, the warden's are really out here just bringing babies back to life.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

It was kind of bold though to be just like in that moment in the scene for a while, just staring at that baby. I was like, oh, this is a little off for sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

But it was confusing because we knew they had a daughter already. You know what I mean? So you're like, was this like a baby we didn't know about? Was this issue? You know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

For sure. They hadn't said the name yet. So I was a little thrown off. I was like, wait a second, I don't remember this in the lore. And either lore, both real nor fake. I was like, Judy's here. So which one is she? Who would I? I was almost doing mathematics for a little bit there. I was like, wait a second, if she was this and this is this. I will say though, that that's pretty interesting to kind of again add a little bit of the lore, a little bit of an explanation as to what's up with Judy. Again, like we've only gotten little tiny bits here and there. We can obviously assume that maybe she has some kind of abilities like Lorraine Warren. We've seen the nun movies. And if you haven't, I would strongly recommend because there is some exposition about Lorraine through those films. And thus you could infer that the same is gonna be for Judy. Annabelle Comes Home, I actually haven't seen, but I know that that film in particular centers around Judy. So maybe in that film there's a little bit more of an explanation on that. But I think it was clever to add that component. I was just curious to see like, okay, you're introducing something now. Are you gonna see it through? And how is that gonna work when we are supposed to be? Exploring the Smurls.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Yeah, for sure. It is interesting, definitely. But I mean, we gotta talk about really the actually only kill that we actually do get. So I'm I am curious to see how you feel about the one real death that we did get in this one with Father Gordon. I mean, was it everything you prayed for?

SPEAKER_01 44:20

We're really we're doing a lot today. I'm loving this heat. I was stunned. Not gonna front. In my notes, I was literally did a like a big, like eye-opened little drawing doodle because I was genuinely stunned by that. You don't really see often where they're willing to take risks and getting rid of a character. I mean, maybe not a main character, but Father Gordon is basically in every single movie. Maybe some that aren't even in the conjuring. So you just know the name. If you know the franchise, you've been watching it, you know the name very well. So I just wasn't expecting for him to go. And in the way that he did, I was that was the moment where I was like, wait a second, this entity that we're dealing with, does it actually go like toe-to-toe? Is it even more intimidating than Valic? For me, that's very hard to believe. But I started to buy into it when I saw that kill.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Listen, we have a long-standing precedence in horror that priests are gonna die. It wasn't surprising. What I did enjoy was all the buildup leading up to his death. And then to realize that this isn't just some weird shit happening, and then he's dying in the exact room in some spooky circumstances, but suddenly we're cut and sent back into the reality of the moment. Oh my gosh, that's it's just insane to know that we see all this shit playing out and then boom, snap back to reality. Oh, there goes gravity, oh, there goes the father hanging himself. That's fucking wild. That is there's a lot of that, and that already hanging people is an extremely disturbing imagery. And just the precedence and the reality of that, it is unsettling to see, especially when you look in the context of the history of our country to see that happen just like that, so suddenly. I wouldn't say that it makes up for the lack of other kills, but it certainly hits you differently.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

It does, for sure. It is jarring, right? Just the whole it was you knew it was coming, right? At a certain point, you knew it was coming, especially when he like takes the cord out of the wall and starts walking away with it. You know, like oh, he's gonna I called it out. I was like, he's gonna go hang himself, like for sure. But it was still jarring the way he just kind of fell off the staircase or whatever and just like snapped right there. But even leading up to that, like just seeing the door handles with the crosses on it slowly turn into the inverted cross, and you know, he's grabbing his crucifix and he's you know, he's trying to fight this evil force, but the crucifix catches on fire, and just the cool shot of like his hand bubbling and getting melty, and you could tell he was holding on for a while. He was like, I'm I am going to fight this until I absolutely can't, and he put up the fight for sure, but he just couldn't get there. He just couldn't get there.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

He couldn't get there. And I will say, I mean, at the very beginning, the intro, you could presume that, okay, is this maybe a tactic or something? It's not very clear that the possession of this entity results in someone hanging themselves. That's it's way too soon for something like that for an assumption. Personally, at least I didn't come to that conclusion. It was only until he's looking at the cord unraveling, like you mentioned, unraveling, where I'm like, why are we focusing on a cord that I'm then thinking, oh, wait, are they really about to do this? And truthfully, it made sense. I think that that this is the part where, for me, the pacing and how like drawn out this whole film is, it has to happen this way to an extent. There's definitely some fat to trim, like we said, but it has to happen this way because what else was gonna get the Warrens to go to Pennsylvania? You know what I'm saying? Like they needed some kind of reasoning to go out there in the context of this film, because Lord knows that my peeps were out on the case. But in the context of the film and the franchise, and you know, obviously what's happened in the film prior, like it was it seemed pretty settled that they were not going to be out there exploring and doing other cases again. They even, you know, told Father Gordon that that wasn't gonna happen. We need typically, right? It in these films, we need like a loss, a big loss to kind of motivate you to kind of leave. And even then, technically, they said, nah, son, I don't even care about you. I'm trying to get my daughter.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Yeah, it's wild because especially when you get down to this reality that they honestly came to a point where they came out of retirement for one last heist. You know what I mean? This is a heist movie, if nothing else. But also, it would have been so much better, folks. If you had just listened, if you had just participated, this man may not have lost his life quite so violently, at least not right then. I mean, he was getting up there in age, but I think he still had a lot of life ahead of him.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

He had time, he definitely had time. There's one thing that I do feel like I want to give it up for in this movie, and I know like we're all gonna talk about a lot of like the really great atmosphere, the lighting, the set design. We can get into that, but I do want to highlight the score in this movie because without the score in this movie, some of the tension I don't feel like would feel the same. Like, there was those like really like low humming, menacing tones that were building up in some of these scenes that really built up the moments where we kind of like almost were sitting in stillness, in darkness, until we did finally get something, and the score really did a great job, but it's not even the score, like it was also the fact that they broke up some of this like really menacing low hums with some really great uplifting songs. Like, we were going into this tension-building score, and then we're breaking it up with David Bowie. We're going back to this menacing score, and then we're breaking it up with Van Morrison. Like, we're hitting some really great songs in this movie, along with a really great score that added a lot of really great tension and dread to every scene, and it made the impact so much greater.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Absolutely. I was thinking of you when I was watching it because I was like, man, I don't know if we've really like touched on the score in the previous films when we've done our episodes. But when the music started playing, I was like, oh, Sean's gonna love this. And it it's off-putting because at the same time, we're also talking about the 80s at this point, and everybody loves music from the 80s. It is probably the best decade. So I think it's definitely off-putting. I loved it. I was a big fan of that. But for me, man, the lighting of this film was crazy. The warm lighting, especially in the scenes where Judy's possessed, and we've got the is it carousel, I guess, like the toy that's reminiscent of the first film with the little music box, right? But it's the shots of it's turning around, how that looks against Lorraine's face. My goodness, I was like, this is so eerie. It reminded me a little bit of Evil Dead Rise, some moments as well. Like that warm lighting when someone's possessed, the look on their eyes, yikes. Big, a big no. And also, I think, as well, the large axeman. That's what I'm gonna call him. Does he have a name? I don't know. I'm gonna call him large axemen. I'm also probably gonna call him like Sinister Guy. The name is escaping me, but he definitely looks like the main guy from Bagul, right? But the warm lighting on against his face as well when he was in the basement, that was a big hell to the nah. No way.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

The lighting in this movie is absolutely incredible. And I'm so conflicted about where to give even more praise, right? It's it's in a lot of moments the way that lighting combines with cinematography to block out some incredible shots using reflections and playing off of the reflections that you do and you don't see. For example, earlier in the film, we have a younger Lorraine looking into a mirror, but we don't see the reflection that she sees. We see it in real life right behind her. It physically manifests. And I think that's such an interesting take on what they do in these films to take something that is alleged, something that is claimed, and then to pivot it right back into well, if we presume it to be true, this is what it would actually be. But then in the rest of the movie, you get a lot of reflections, and you have things breaking through that that portal, breaking through that reflection and into the physical world, which I think is a really fascinating way to strike this up. But another element of this that I just really have to go on about is its casting. Because A, we know the Warrens, rock solid, steady, right? These two have brought these characters to life and added endearment where there isn't a lot of love outside of that, right? The first thing you hear is, wow, okay, renowned paranormal investigators, oh my gosh, they were married forever, they're very devoted to each other, etc. You search one thing about these folks and you see all manner of sordid past and claims of not being who they say they are, claims of taking advantage of people in vulnerable moments, scamming people out of money. There's a lot of mixed bag on that, right? So for their performances to be so strong that you can look at this movie for them and not for the f the people who they're associated with either way, I think that's a real big testament. In addition to that, though, the family in this film specifically, I'm thinking about Heather and Dawn absolutely incredible. The casting choices were just phenomenal. Even to casting the younger Ed and Lorraine, because I was gonna say the young Ed for sure looked like young Patrick Wilson. Perfect. Lorraine was interesting because I thought she looked more like a a young real Lorraine. But I'm like, you missed out the chance to just get Vera's sister one more time back in this bitch. You know what I mean? Like that's what they should have done.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

But it would have been a reach, I think, knowing that she's in the nun.

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Send it. It's fine. If okay, send it anyway. If she is in the nun and we got her eyes, and we got those in Lorraine's eyes, we can get her sister to play a younger version of her because they're clearly descendants anyway. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters anymore, Banks. We could have done it. Either way, the actress that does portray young Lorraine, phenomenal job.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

No, listen, I wrote down specifically that the actress that plays Dawn, Bravo, Queen, bravo, didn't expect it, certainly didn't expect it. But her specifically, I thought her performance was great. The small family in general, just their vibe was strong. But I feel like Dawn and Heather for sure, like they something about them, their performances, their the way that they played off of each other, but the specifically the monologue that Dawn gives at the table when she is just like pleading someone to believe her, especially her father, like to get help. I that was like the first time, I think, in all of this entire lengthy franchise that I was like, oh my God, a victim that is acting exactly how you would expect in an instance like this when they are upset, furious that no one is believing them. It's not just like pleading and like crying. No, it's it's fury because what she went through, damn.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Yeah. And that's actually, I love it so much because the feeling that you get from her, the passion that you feel, it's also the confrontation of and it's a very subtle layer there. She sees her father to be this stoic figure who's just trying to keep it all together. It's like, okay, well, either you don't believe us or it's happening and you can't do anything about it, which is it. So that already takes so much out of her father's hands. So that's one layer of it. Two, it is, you know, she's saying what I think every character wants to say in these fucking movies where a dad moves a family into a house and he doesn't listen to the wife or the kids. It's all being thrown out there, right? Thank you, Don, for finally saying it. However, the other layer of this is the context of what is alleged to have actually happened with the father of the family, right? And when this moment happens at the table, because we only get these periodic check-ins, it is unclear to me if that has canonically already taken place. Because the way he responds with his own emotion, where he talks about it's happening to all of us. I was like, hmm, there's something there. Then obviously we get the scene with him levitating and then the succubus on top of him. It is it is a terrible thing for sure. But the dynamic between all of them, the tension of that, the stress of that, it was probably the best acting I've seen in the Conjuring franchise. That's me.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

Oh, for sure. Like, definitely up there, if not the best. But you know, even the fact that, you know, it's happening to all of us line. Like, yeah, you could take it as like maybe the fact that, you know, everyone's dealing with the trauma of something happening, right? Maybe at that point everyone has an experience to the level of others. But I do love that she's like crying out for help, and it really did take him getting fucking attacked by this succubus for him to finally be like, okay, uh, let's uh let's try to figure some shit out here because there's something in the house, which kind of leads me to one of my favorite scenes because the fact that, oh man, like it was just really set up really well, and it does give you a perfect balance of not showing you too much, but still being super creepy, right? Like you've got the whole classic jump scary thing, right? Like he's sitting in bed, getting ready to lay down, takes his glasses off, the door slowly creaks open. You know, it's that classic haunted house shit. He's trying trying to grab his glasses. What happens? Of course, his glasses fucking fall off the nightstand, so he's not gonna grab those in time, or it's not gonna be easy. So he goes to pick them up, looks up, and there we get the really like if that didn't kind of give you the shivvy wivbies, like that was just this this succubus just looks fucked, okay? Let me just tell you this succubus looked like a cross between the witch from the first one and fucking Gladys from Weapons. Okay. Absolutely. Like, I I'm like, dude, if I gotta deal with this, like together we are fusing to make one crazy ass bitch, like I am not here for it, okay? If that thing shows up in my room, I don't know what's gonna happen. I'll tell you that much. But holy shit.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Nothing good. I'll tell you that much. The sight of her had me on my ass. I think I literally jumped out of the seat and onto the floor because no, she was horrific to look at, most definitely. But I will say, I I also love that scene because I will also say though, that I did not know at that point in time what had happened to Jack's moral. I realized that afterwards. And I will say that the scene is handled delicately ish-ish enough to where it's very it's a little unclear. Like, sure, you see her on top of him, but it's not like it's in a particular position or anything that would make you think that it's leading to something else. His reaction most definitely, he's uncomfortable, he's terrified, but nothing of the sort that would make me feel that it what actually happened was you know something of sexual nature that was mentioned in the real case. So I'm glad that that was handled that way, but man.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Well, that's that's where the less is more thing, I think, came into play really well. Because you did get like little you got the little shot of of her feet on top of him. That's where you know like she was right on top of him. And then it just leaves you to the imagination of like I'm not even thinking at that point, are we sticking to the facts of like being sexual or not? I'm just thinking, like, my imagination is like I'm literally staring face to face with this creepy ass fucking succubus, like probably eye to eye. Like, that is alone probably the scariest shit I would ever encounter in my entire life.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Yeah, imagine your wife walks in on you, thinks you're cheating on her, and it's a fucking demon succubus, bro. No. Sounds like a scary movie. Honestly though, on okay, yeah, I'll save that joke. A future episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

That's gonna be a that's gonna be a scary movie angle.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Yeah, it's gonna be something. It's gonna be something.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

Well, most definitely. But you know, while we're talking about that scene though, it I it gets matched along with the daughter replaying the tape, the VHS tape. And that I think was the double whammy for me that made me love that scene because it was that coupled with something that feels so real, like relatable, VHS, you know, it's extremely analog and it's coming back. I collect VHSs and I could only imagine, you know, I've got some tapes literally right next to me of me and my dance recitals. And it's weird to say, but like, what if I put that on and I'm like noticing something in the distance and I'm replaying it, and then you suddenly, yeah, no, for real, I really might, who knows? And it's just like those little things that I think about sometimes. So when I saw it in this film, I was like, I love that. Let's let's also bring back fear that is really authentic and real. We don't have to do things so overly dramatized and stuff like that. There are real moments where you look at something and you can't tell, are those eyes looking at me or are they just the lights from the TV, you know? And and this scene in particular reminded me of that because she looks up, she sees those two dots right above the TV. What could it really be? And it very well could be something looking at her, let's be honest. So stuff like that is like that's what I love about horror that we need more of. Less is more. We talk so much about that, and I think it's very real.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Yeah, I love that scene. It is absolutely my favorite, but it's gonna go even further than this because when she's playing that tape, first off, classic enhance moment. Suddenly, the the quality on this 80s VHS is just fucking outrageous when you just enhance. Women's really say, let me clear this up for you a little bit. Yeah, for sure. Let's do a little AR restoration in 1983 to six. Yeah, it it's a lot to to go for there. But what a classic moment of seeing something that you didn't previously see there or experience there. I love that. But this is another one of those moments that I mentioned earlier where you have what you would expect the scare to be, and then you're misdirected. Because this entire thing, you can see her face in the reflection of this TV. And history tells us that at some point we're gonna see a reflection staring back at us from that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

I was waiting.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

Over her shoulder, getting closer in the background, perhaps, something is gonna happen here. But it continues to go on to its beats and it never fucking happens. That was a great moment because it beautifully sets up what you don't expect, which is to see a fucking axe in the living room that was not there, obviously. Right? The headlights turn around, she looks up. Okay, no, it's just China, it's not eye staring back at me. Looks around the room, there's an axe, all of a sudden, you basically have the guy who was the camp night wing killer in Fear Street coming right at you with that long ass hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:10

That was a lot with that with that long ass hair. What a mane. What a man. He also was really looking like the alphas from 28 years later. Like he was a large individual, very terrible, to be very, very clear. Yeah, I I love when you just like are subverted those expectations because I was locked in on that TV. I was like, you are not gonna get me, bitch. I know what you're up to. And then I got got so bad. It's not even funny. I really almost hit the floor for sure. But there's another scene where similarly I was like, I need to do something with my hands because I'm so terrified right now. And it is Judy trying on her wedding dress. The suspiria of it all with the mirror surrounding her, that already is. Very triggering when you are kind of like looking at your reflection in a mirror within a mirror, I guess we can talk, we can say or describe, right? If I hope that I describe that well enough because it's kind of like when you see just so many versions of yourself, but at the far distance, you see that you stand out, like you're not in the same pose. That particular moment was a big fuck that because I feel like maybe we don't talk about this enough, but that thing with mirrors really freaks me out because you're just seeing yourself within yourself, within yourself, within yourself. And what if down that line you notice that you are not moving at the same direction or timing that you should? Again, I go back to it's the small actual fears that people have when you include that and you embed it into the film that is very effective. But then it's also this lady, old ass lady, going under my dress and saying peekaboo. Nah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:02

Yeah, look at it was a combination of a lot of things that were a big no. Yeah, looking for that order for sure. Okay, a couple things. One, we definitely explore the topic of mirrors and how fucking creepy they are so many times on this podcast. We talked about it like I'm thinking about old episodes like in us. We talked about it in a lot of the Candyman movies, etc. But you know, Binks, the other layer here is if you haven't done the work in therapy to be able to even look at yourself in a regular mirror, imagine the shit that you're gonna be in for, right? That's a lot. That's real going on. However, what I really appreciated about that scene was the fact that it wasn't all revealed to us in the trailer. Because as soon as we she steps into that mirror that mirror room, I'm like, all right, okay, she's gonna look at herself, she's not gonna be there, she can be turning around, da da da. We didn't see that old bitch underneath the fucking dress. We didn't get that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

That was we weren't ready for that one. That was good. That was good. Is it also kind of weird that I watched that scene and instantly with that and the actual haunted mirror that we get, I actually just felt like watching mirrors, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

Oh, I thought you were gonna say Oculus. I w yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

Meanwhile, I was like talking about mirrors, man. Come on. No, that's fair. That's fair also. But I was definitely getting Oculus vibes. The moment I saw that mirror, I was like, oh I can see that for sure. Oculus slash the haunting, because the look of the babies or the little angels at the top, I was like, oh, well, that's a nice little nice little nod there.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

100% for sure. But listen, also, I'll go ahead and say it. I we got it in the trailers, but the scene with Lorraine facing like possessed Judy in the corner of the room by the chair was we got it in the trailer, but like it was effective as hell. It was creepy, just the way we're talking about just the right amount of lighting. We got just the right amount of lighting right on her face that really kind of at first only showed you her eyes emerging from the darkness and the way that she looked, all possessed and shit. It was creepy as hell. She's singing that song. It's not okay. It wasn't okay, and I didn't like it at all, but I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

No, this is where I'm actually really glad that I didn't see the trailer. That just dawned on me. I didn't even know that was in the trailer. I I actually don't think I even saw a teaser. The only thing I saw was their Instagram post when they rapped filming, and I shed a little tear, and I was like, I'm fucking ready. It's my birthday week. I'm ready to go. Your birthday week too, Sean. Like we're both we're both like, let's let's go. So that that scene was incredible. The lighting I I highlighted, of course, but I agree with you. Just the whole setup was just not a good time, but was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

Are they trying to say in this movie that Judy has been possessed this entire time or has been a part of it? Essentially, they're saying that she has been a part of this this entire time, like since birth, right? Because the mirror came into play while she was still in the womb of Lorraine. So is this the angle they're playing with here?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

Yeah, it sure seems like it, you know. And here's the thing for me with this story: it was one thing when you're just making up completely fictional fucking people and doing this shit with, right? It's another when the Warren's living, breathing daughter, still on this earth, married to Tony, and you're saying she got possessed. Meanwhile, from her account, she wasn't even aware of what her parents did until she was much older, and she has a light version of the gift that she keeps at bay because she doesn't want to fuck around with any of that. Come on, guys, you're really gonna make her the person, the central person being possessed. You're gonna amityville horror her, essentially.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Come on, guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Well, in fairness, because she's literally in the movie, she must have kind of been about it though. She makes a cameo, so does Tony. I mean, I've gotta say, I mean, she must have read the script, obviously, because it's you know her parents' involvement, I would imagine. But I don't know how like actually like red tape they have to, you know, go through with the Warren specifically, but she's in the movie. So I would imagine that she's cool with maybe herself being possessed, yeah, to an extent.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:34

You would imagine, and you know what? Good for her. But also the creative license here is a little outrageous.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

It's a little outrageous. Sure. But hey, I think at the same time, like I said, like you also need to explain just a little bit of what's already been introduced. And there's some elements to, I guess, like Lorraine specifically, that needed to kind of wrap up to an extent. And also with Ed, I think, because if the last film basically establishes like Ed, if you keep fucking around and finding out, you're gonna die. And Lorraine, you have some crazy ass gifts and you've seen all these visions and things where you know your family's gonna pay the price. You just kind of have to wrap all those things up. I think that involving family and this whole central theme of love, you know, love conquers all type thing is like very apparent and only grows as the films cut, you know, keep going. But I agree. I mean, to an extent, I was like, that's kind of bold to do, but I wasn't too mad at it. I think like it was an interesting touch and way to also explain why they would even go out of their way to help this family out when it's very clear that Ed would not make it through. And that's where I was a little disappointed as well by this film. Obviously, I couldn't talk about it earlier because it would have been a spoiler, but this whole thing is supposed to be like what I assume to be a life-for-life type of transaction, you know, like to an extent, she begged for Judy to come back with this whole demon obviously right overhead. And sure, she did. But later on down the line, it wants her back. And I mean, it's kind of fucked up to say because he actually didn't end up dying not long after. But it's like if Ed is having a full-blown heart attack, was told specifically that he cannot do this again or strain himself or he will not make it. I almost thought, like, oh, are we gonna do this right now? Is Ed gonna die, like for real for real? And Judy's gonna make it? It would have been pretty damn bold. But then again, maybe it would have been interpreted as a little disrespectful to Ed's actual passing and the relationship between Ed and Lorraine for sure. So it was a fleeting moment, but you can't, we gotta say it. If I'm not the only one that probably thought that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

But also, Judy, come on. Like, your your father is literally, you know, your father can't be doing this shit, and you're the one that's now like, oh, come on, let's come on, we gotta do this, we gotta do this thing. Like, what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:20

One last one last heist.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:23

We're in one last terrible, and even more so when she's the whole time singing her little riddle or whatever the hell and doesn't even want to face it.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

Girl, please. Listen. You gotta get it together.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

If you want to play big games, you gotta put your big girl pants on. You gotta be ready for it. However, someone that we're not talking about a lot yet, who I actually really enjoyed, was Tony. I really enjoyed Tony A as a character in this movie. Very earnest, very sweet. I also deeply appreciate while he is rushing into some commitment. I do appreciate his perspective on what he experienced and feeling like he's almost like on borrowed time, so to speak. But he provides a layer of comedy in the film that I just love being able to see like an outsider's perspective getting close to the warrant to be like, so is this like part of it? Is this normal? Do you always make pancakes? Fucking hilarious to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:23

Sometimes it's waffles.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:25

I agree. I think that it brought levity that also allows Patrick Wilson to do his thing because I personally love when Patrick Wilson plays these serious but like slight comedic, like you know, gives little jabs of wittiness here and there. I think it's great, especially because he's so good looking. So when he does those little smirks, I'm like, boy, you better stop. But it's just fantastic. I think that they played off of each other really, really well. And at first I was a little confused by like what his purpose was going to be, and like, would it be a little bit too much? Would it be a little too much comedy and what's supposed to be very scary or what I was hoping to? I think it was just right. And again, adds onto this whole theme of love. It's huge in the conjuring. Like, face it, folks, I think that that's the big part about the Warrens and what people know the Warrens to be a a loving couple that is well known in the paranormal, you know, universe and industry. And to see like a mirrored version of that love with their daughter and you know, her her husband, I thought it was very sweet. And for it to conclude at their wedding as well, I thought that that was really nice and very wholesome. That's what I meant by the ending. Maybe the whole showdown was a little bit much. When I think of the ending, I'm talking about the wedding. That seemed very like, all right, the epilogue of it all, which I thought was very sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:50

Yeah, for sure. I think one thing was funny that stood out to me is that uh, you know, we see it here and there in the movies, but man, Ed really, really loves to show off his room. I mean, you could tell, like he's having a barbecue, and this guy is just taking groups of people in there. He says that same line over and over again, verbatim. He does it again with Tony later on. He's just into it. He's into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:19

Which, man, thank you for bringing that up. I wrote that down too, but I was like, I don't know, is it worth saying? But I guess it is, because it also seems like a little bit much, doesn't it? I don't want to say disrespectful because what's I know? And this is not real, but I don't know, and you're showing off all of these artifacts and these possessed things that clearly have done harm to families, and you're showing it off like it's just a fun, you know, hunting trip. It seems a little fucked up, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:48

Is it because those items didn't cause harm to families? Is it is that maybe who knows? Believers saying, okay, keep it contained. Someone clearly said charge admission. I'm not saying I'm one way or another. All I'm saying is it's an attraction.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

It is out here in this episode. Damn, throwing punches left and right, folks.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

But that's crazy. It's a museum. It is essentially it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:17

A comedian bought this friggin' place out. Not even Zach Baggins or whatever his name is. I can't. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:24

It's fine. It's very interesting for sure, but that's you know, maybe a topic for another day. I do want to say, listen, in this movie, we get some Annabelle, and Annabelle's creepy in her own right, but Annabelle, watch the fuck out because mommy, mommy, fuck that doll. Okay? That doll, creepiest part of this movie. If that doll fucking turns its neck at me with those dark eyes, fucking saying, mommy, mommy, I'm fucking punting that thing across the room as hard as I can. I'm gonna rip that fucking doll's head off.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:55

Yes, little Susie. Susie, you gotta go. In the trash. Most definitely, you gotta go. Although, wait a minute, because we're talking about Annabelle, but are we talking specifically mega Annabelle?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

Worst part of the movie, Annabelle gets fucking gigantic. It's like the whole that you know, that whole scene started off super strong. That whole scene started off great in the attic and turned into a fucking nightmare and not a good kind of nightmare, with Annabelle turning into fucking some kind of like morphed Power Ranger villain, not into it. Yeah, she Super Saiyans for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:33

You know, I surprisingly didn't mind her getting super big, but also I don't really care about Annabelle too much, so maybe I'm just like, you know, maybe I'm not attached. Maybe I thought it was fun because I'm not attached.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

That's fair. You know what another one is, though, if it's not the Mega Annabelle? Are we gonna talk about how that frickin' mirror was just spinning around? That was a lot, folks. That was a lot. We didn't need that. We didn't need that. It made the whole showdown of it all like very awkward, but okay. I I didn't appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:04

Actually, we're getting into the the mirror, which in itself was its own fucking character. But I did want to take for a moment because I was thinking again about like what are the mundane things that these people are doing. How do these two men make a story out of moving a mirror out of an addict? You know what I mean? This is giving one of you slipped, fucked up falling down the ladder, and then thought we gotta come up with a great story about this. Like that's the energy that I felt here. Because only in a conjuring movie could two men moving furniture out of an attic suddenly be the most dramatic thing to happen in the entire movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:42

It's getting heavier, it's getting heavier. Oh no, the blanket fell off. Don't look, don't look.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

She's here, she's here. I told you, don't look. Is there is there a drywall underneath these things? Like we're having a whole analysis of the build of this attic.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

They're building it up for sure. For sure. Yeah, definitely some questionable choices 100%. And if Mega Annabelle wasn't the worst part of this movie, I will say, for me, and listen, I get it. When we get to the end, like we're wrapping this whole thing up. I get it. It's it is what it is, but it's not that I'm mad at like this whole wedding thing that took place. I don't think we needed the wedding at all to finish this movie off. And even if we got it, I didn't really need to like we're really gonna have the silliness of putting the Smurl family at the wedding. We're gonna have the silliness of putting past characters at this wedding. Like, any of these characters actually gave a shit enough to go to any of these weddings. Like, uh, no, it just felt dumb. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

Ah, okay. But Sean, this is the conclusion of a mega franchise. You know how this goes. You're gonna see the old folks from the previous films, the cameos, the Easter eggs. I wasn't anticipating it, most certainly.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:06

The only thing worse would be if all these people joined forces to finish it all off. You know what I mean? That would be the only worst thing that they could do.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

No, listen, that's that's an Avengers type film. A and B, that sounds like I don't know, like the like the Exorcist, like the more recent Exorcist movie that we got. Okay, so maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:27

But you know what else it sounds like? It sounds like Rise of Skywalker, I am all the sea, and I am all the Jedi. It feels like that's what we needed. We needed the Puneverse monsters assemble, but for the conjuring, we needed the conjuring demons congregate is what we needed for this fucking movie to be. But that's crazy. I could I I hear you on the worst part of the movie. I I I agree. I think for me, the worst part comes in the pacing of the movie. I think there's a lot we could have caught out. I didn't need the table tennis where he almost got a heart attack. Could have done without that. Also, this man is in retirement but keeps the demon bag at the ready. I guess you gotta admire that. That is something to behold for sure. And the other side of it, I mean, again, it's a little silly thing, but I really wish we had gotten Vera's younger sister. I really wish. You know, could have been a nice little Easter egg moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

That's fair. That's fair. And listen, I I'm with you on the Balls of Fury cameo, basically, with that ping pong tournament that they had, and basically Ed Warren always being ready to go, ready to go, like this is a supernatural episode. So that was definitely gave me a laugh. But in general, Ed Warren is fascinating. Patrick Wilson's rendition of Ed Warren is definitely fascinating. But I guess if I were to like really sum it up for me, it the worst part is that ultimately, although I enjoyed this movie for what it was, nothing's going to ever match the conjuring. The conjuring for me is a five out of five, a mega slash. Definitely like, if it isn't it, it's the conjuring as far as my favorite horror movies. Like, I love the conjuring so much. I think at the time it was incredible for what it was. And I know that not all, you know, you guys that are not like big James Wand fans, and not a lot of people are, but I think he really did something great with that film in particular. And there's just nothing gonna be like it ever again. And that's okay. What's done is done. We'll always have the conjuring. And so for me, I think that that being said, there's still some rewatchability here because now it's concluded. Now I've come to terms with the fact that we're just not gonna have that sentiment again. But what we can do is relive this whole massive world that they've built. And although it can be very convoluted and a bit extreme, and what the hell are we doing here? I think it's really fun to think about how this one movie that could have very much been a standalone. Yes, they had a ton of cases, but because of how controversial the Warrens are, it might have almost been wiser to just do the conjuring and leave it at that, right? But they did more and more and they built out each of these characters, knowing you know that there's some hostility surrounding them. And I think that it's a fun franchise to re-watch. So I'll definitely rewatch this one, maybe even definitely own it for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

Yeah, I'm right there with you, Bing. So I think the next time I watch this, it's gonna be because I'm gonna do a chronological viewing of the entire franchise, not in terms of release order, but in the way the story unfolds order. I think that'll be a really interesting way to digest everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:47

That does sound like a good time. Uh yeah, I'll definitely be watching this one again. I definitely want to do a binge conjuring marathon, whether it's just the conjuring four-part series, whether it's the entire universe in chronological order, release order. I don't know how I'm gonna do it yet, but I am excited to watch these movies uh all together at some point in some kind of binge-worthy fashion.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:11

Well, I can't wait to see if our thoughts, opinions, and feelings on this film and the franchise change over time, but for now, there you have it, folks. The Conjuring Last Rights has earned a universal slash. Now we've certainly had a robust discussion here. The conversation doesn't end here by any means.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:28

That's absolutely true. And if you had a hauntingly good time hanging out with us and want to find out how you can go further than this episode, you can consider supporting our show by visiting patreon.com slash hackerslash where you can enjoy even more of the show, including some of this bonus content with early access, extended episodes with those B-sides that you're about to listen to, which are free for the spooky season, movie nominations and live shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:55

We'll see you next time, folks, and remember, babies are perverts, babies are gross.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:00

That sounds just about right.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:13

Okay, so we've all done varying levels of research here into the true case behind this film. I think for me, one of the things that I didn't want to see in the movie that we eventually got in the movie, was the dog being thrown against the wall.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:30

Now, when I saw they had a German Shepherd and they replaced the changed breed here, I'm imagining just with a more lovable dog, arguably significantly.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:43

Whether it's a German Shepherd or a golden retriever, I was hurting and I didn't need to know that Simon was okay. I was like, I swear to god, if they fucking pad the body count with Simon, I'm gonna be I know yes, but then Simon Simon who clocked that something.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:00

Was wrong from the jump. I'm gonna need everybody to really listen to their dogs. I don't know how many other ways we can say this.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

Yeah. Simon is really pre current pre-dating good boy here.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:13

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:15

The other thing that I think is interesting, right? With I mean, we're really analyzing like this actual Smurl family haunting with what we got in this movie, you know, that we didn't really get, I guess, maybe to see a good view of like how these houses look, but in this actual Smurl family duplex is what they were in, right? When you look at a duplex, it's basically like two houses conjoined by a wall. You know what I mean? And so, like, the fact there's a lot of things that have me questioning this, right? One, did they own both sides of the duplex that were like, because they got like eight people living in this house, this tiny ass duplex. If they're just on one side of this house, that's a lot of people to shove in there. One, two, you're gonna tell me that just this half of this duplex, it's basically the same house, just this half over here is haunted, just this half, but this wall they ain't getting through. They ain't getting through this drywall right here.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:16

So, what's interesting, and again, I was listening to uh in a study on this case and a review of this case, and the folks I was listening to shared that the parents, the grandparents lived in the other side of the duplex, and that the haunting may have carried over a bit because there would be a moment where the father not the grandfather, but the father was up in the middle of the night and then uh observed or heard like the toilet flushing spontaneously on its own without any interference or action from someone. Little spooky things like that. But Ed Warren came out and said some shit to the effect of they were just chosen.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:58

They were just the chosen ones, yeah. The chosen ones. There was a few entities and a succubus or a demon that was basically uh, you know, choosing this family to uh just kind of fuck with, you know, just as demons do, you know. You're the one, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:18

That that at least tracks as far as like the amount of entities and the whole bit, like the I they clearly created more of a story for what these entities were, and the demon entity specifically that was controlling them. They created more rational reasoning for what that was in comparison to the actual case because they themselves said that there was no actual like item, right? Like there was nothing that was haunted specifically, they were just chosen, which I think is so interesting because they must have known when they were writing this, they must have known that, like, well, we can't go that angle. There always has to be an item. So we're gonna do a mirror, we're gonna oculus this shit, we're gonna do a mirror. Everyone loves mirrors, they're creepy, and we'll run with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:05

And then tie it to their daughter.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:07

And then tie it to their daughter, of course, and then here we go. We've got ourselves a film, folks.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:13

We're also talking about like a big difference in the timeline here, right? Like, we're talking about this family's dealing with this for the better part of a decade in real life, right? Supposedly they're being haunted in this house from like 1973 till 1983 or 86 or wherever the fuck the timeline was at by the end of all this. And in this movie, we're just talking about a few months have gone by.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:37

Yeah. No, it's it's intense. And I will say that, like, in the film, they ramp things up so quickly, so much so that Abuela takes a beating, you know, like grandma doesn't even make it. Like, that is that even real? I don't think that that's what happened. The person that fell down those stairs, I thought was the father. Or certainly wasn't the grandmother, from what I read. Maybe there's other articles that get into detail about all the other instances. I mean, we're talking about a 10-year span, folks. Who knows? There's lots of things that could have happened to that family within that time, but there was just some moments where they like really highlighted it. Also, not Larry King having a cameo, because every time that someone is like on the TV and they're just trying to get some news traction, somehow they always end up on Larry King. And I feel like that's a very American thing to highlight for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:31

Yeah. It was actually supposedly one of the daughters that got pushed down the flight of stairs, as it was supposed to be, anyways, from the actual accounts. And yeah, we actually should have just gotten another. I don't know actually if if Mary actually dies, but there was somebody that had a heart attack in the house. It was the grandmother, Mary. It was Jack's mother who had a heart attack in the house, which they attributed to the demon, but that we didn't even get to see that part of it either. Like, we missed a lot of like details where, to our point, right, earlier what you know, in the actual episode, is if we focused more on the family and all the shit that happened to this family, what a wild time this movie would have been. Like it, but we had to tie in, like, and I I get it, like, we're trying to close out a franchise, so we're trying to bring it home, we're trying to tie all this together and wrap a nice little bow on it. And at the end of the day, it's kind of hard to do that when you just like go full on into this this case, and then you get the resolution of maybe this case, but then it doesn't really close out Ed and Lorraine as a story.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:37

Here's my thing. I understand that there might be the desire to pick this case because it maybe is their last one. But could you not make a different choice? If we're just making shit up anyway, could you not make a different choice? Could you not end the franchise in a different way? Could you perhaps not pick the case where Ed and Lorraine Warren essentially did nothing to help? And then uh one more, really just one more blessing, one more exorcism is really what did it, and everything was fine after.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:13

You could have, I think, is looked for something with a little bit more impact.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:16

Yeah, they didn't even solve this game.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:19

Right. Gossip, I not serious, still abierto.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:24

That's the weird thing, because it's being sold as the case that made them end their careers when in reality it's the case that they never solved. And at that point, they were just already like pretty old, you know, like the the heart attack part and the the heart condition part about Ed Warren is a real thing. So the boy was already, you know, not doing so hot. So it's kind of like when you're selling it as like this case that is so intense, so terrifying, and that's what made them end their careers. But when you look into it, it's actually a case that they just I don't know what it could be, and they just never solved it. And so they just went about their lives and just left it at that. It's once again so anticlimactic.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:17

Once again, it is the I'm coming out of retirement for one last job. I'm too old for this shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:24

Yeah, it's very interesting for sure. And I think even like not only did they not solve the case, and you know, Chris, you're saying like obviously one more exorcism did it, I think they actually they did end up moving out of this house and then still having like a haunting, and then had that last exorcism in a completely different environment, and then they were like, okay, now we're all good. Now we're now we're doing good.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:46

Yeah. In my mind, I like to think that in these scenarios, if if you were to be skeptical of this whole thing, not necessarily not necessarily saying this with like the Smurl family, right? But imagine a family who is just like inventing this shit altogether, and then they continue to move from place to place. This is still going on, still going on. And then I like to think at what point they're gonna be handed a bill for something. They're like, oh wait, so oh, we're good, we're good. Demon's gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:11

That's the part that's also interesting with the end credits, right? Because at every conjuring movie, we've got, you know, again, this epilogue that talks about what happened to the family afterwards, or et cetera, et cetera. And even in that, they're just like, yeah, they stayed in that house for a couple more years. Like they definitely are not addressing the fact that we completely changed this ending for you folks. So we can't actually tell you the epilogue for this scenario. Now, I find it also interesting that the other part that makes the conjuring film so fun is their end credits and the montage of real, you know, like scenes and articles and pictures and videos and tapes that plays for the case that the movie is covering. In this one in particular, it's just Ed and Lorraine in general, their lives, and then a sprinkle of the cases that we already saw in the previous ones. This is also giving like when Twilight ended in Breaking Dawn Part 2, they were doing the montage of all the previous films as well. And we've seen this a couple of times with other like mega franchises. That's what this was giving. And yet somehow didn't really see much evidence or pictures of what happened to the Smirls specifically.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:26

Now Kenny and you were barely there.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:28

Yeah. They were a very small part of this journey in this whole documented case, as it were. But also, that's what I'm saying. Like, what an interesting obviously it doesn't work to wrap up the franchise with Ed and Lorraine Warren, but what an interesting take the movie would have been if maybe like uh they did play this whole angle of like this was the one that they couldn't solve, right? And they did play into that angle, and there was this kind of hopelessness at the end of like, man, they just could not beat this this thing and they had to walk away.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:01

Yeah, literally just send you out on a fucking L.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:06

Hey, listen.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:07

And what's even funnier is like we have this whole speech of like not giving up, facing it, you know, fighting when the real Warrens didn't really do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:19

Yeah, yeah. Listen, that whole bit, the we all put our hands on the mirror and we face it together because together we can. Together we're stronger. Little much for me. Although I was so fucking glad that they did not bring her back to life with Tony's true love kiss. When he was starting to do compressions, I was like, if this motherfucker kisses her and then she comes back to life, I'm done with this movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:46

That would have been a little bit too much of the love conquers all bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:51

That would have been too much for sure. It should be said, uh, it should be also said that there were some exposed medical records proving that Jack's judgment may have been impaired by brain surgery that he had in 1983, right? So, like there's a lot to be said there. Also, most of the paranormal investigators outside of Ed and Lorraine Warren uh revealed that their visits also saw zero evidence of supernatural presence when they were in that house. So there's a lot of conflicting facts surrounding this one here. You know?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:26

Facts or conflicting accounts?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:30

Conflicting accounts, I suppose.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:31

One of us is lying, and it's probably not the majority of us.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:36

Right. Right. I don't know. But you know, where's the fun in it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

Exactly. I am being a little bit of a hard ass on this, but I do think it's fun to pretend. Imagine the possibility. What if?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:47

I'd I'd still go check it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:49

Yeah, I was known to do a little like uh trespassing back in my day to ghost hunt, never saw shit. But you know, being out in the middle of the night is spooky. So you're gonna feel shit, even if you don't see shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:01

Very true. It's the feeling.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:02

At the end, the conjuring was inside us all along.